Latest / Cyber Go-To-Market Talk: The Cybersecurity Podcast About Cyber Sales, Marketing & Revenue Growth / 170: Important leadership trait: bringing great people with you. But how do you do that?

Transcript

170: Important leadership trait: bringing great people with you. But how do you do that? · Cyber Go-To-Market Talk: The Cybersecurity Podcast About Cyber Sales, Marketing & Revenue Growth

• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: One of the things to look for from a sales leader is can they bring people with them they've worked with before?
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know, selling at a startup is really hard, as we all know, but it's just a little bit easier if there's already trust and a relationship in place between the person running the sales team and some of the sellers in that team.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: However, two questions to answer today.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: One is how do you become a leader that is able to take people with you as you move around?
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: And then, secondly, if you're a CEO or founder looking to hire a leader, what does this look like?
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: How do you know you have one of those types of potential leaders that you're talking to?
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: In reality, it's all in how they lead their team.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: And today we're learning this from Craig Denton, the RVB of Sales at Beyond Trust.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: As you probably tell from the conversation, I've known Craig for many years and we've interacted and you know been in different teams and being different types of leaders in the organizations we've been at.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: But I've always found him someone who has that ability, that people want to work with him, and he's able to execute and get what needs to be done done.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I know that about him already.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: And if I was listening to this conversation, there were three things that I would want you to take away from this.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: One is the the first thing is what he said at the start about planning with them and executing with them, right?
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: He's not a sit back in the chair and let the team just get on with their stuff.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: He he's in enough to help them and guide them and make sure they've got a plan, and in it enough on their day-to-day so that he's in the business, working with them and helping them rather than sitting back and just asking, you know, why things are not being done.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: So planning with them, executing with them is part of this.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: Second thing is that Craig has instilled an ability that we get things done, right?
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: Whether it's you know holding you to your plan that you set, whether it's internally try to root barriers, things get done, right?
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: There's really a situation in my experience with Craig's teams where things just drift, right?
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: Things get done.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: He has that ability to work with the team to get it done, but also internally to the organization.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: The third thing is, and I hope this came out of it, is that um, you know, Craig is someone who's very candid, he's very honest, but as he said, it's all about coaching rather than punitive, right?
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: In any circumstance, he wants people to know exactly where they stand, and he has what can sometimes be tougher conversations with them, but in a way that is not uh designed to be um embarrassing or punitive with them, right?
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: He's just someone, as you can tell from the conversation, you know, I am who I am, I I work a certain way, uh, I want you to be in the team and working, and you know, things always go sideways with everyone at various times, and he always has the conversation to talk to them about how things aren't working out in a certain area and how we need to go about fixing it.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, those are my three takeaways.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: I wonder what the three takeaways were for you.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: If you are someone who wants to be that type of leader, that if you make a move to an early stage company, you can take people with you, right?
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: Are you doing the things with your existing team to do that?
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then, secondly, if you're looking to bring on a sales leader at your startup, uh looking for these types of traits in your sales leader to have that balance, right?
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: You don't want someone too senior, you don't want someone too junior, you want someone in that mold in the middle.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Sales Bluebird Podcast, where we help cybersecurity companies grow sales faster.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: Whether you are a seller, marketer, leader, or founder, we give you tips, tricks, experiences, examples, ideas, and inspiration from people who know a thing or 10 about building great cybersecurity companies.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: I am your host, Andrew Monahan.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: Our guest today is Craig Danton, Regional Vice President of Sales at Beyond Trust.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: Craig, welcome to Sales Bluebird.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, how are you doing, Andrew?
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: Good to see you.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, this is uh good to see you too.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's been a while since we've been able to see each other in real life, as it were, but uh it's nice to use these sorts of tools to get together.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm looking forward to this conversation, Craig, not just because I've I've known you for a while, but good because I've known you for a while as someone who really builds relationships with their teams.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: And people seem to want to work with you a lot.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: And uh you have that ability to keep those relationships going through all the ins and outs and ups and downs of selling.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: People just uh look to you as someone that uh they they know and trust and and want to work with again.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm kind of keen to think about, well, hear about how you approach that and how you go about doing things so that people do want to follow you.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: But Craig, before we get to the real meat and bones of this, uh let's get to know you a little bit better.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: I have 35 questions on my list here.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: I want you to pick three numbers between one and 35, and I'll tell you what the questions are.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: Five, ten, fifteen.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: Five, ten, fifteen.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: All right, five.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: Beach or mountains?
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: Beach.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I love the mountains, but the beach has a different outlook on my life and let me really relax and be able to come back to work.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: You can decompress on a beach, right?
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: I can decompress a little better on a beach, and it's hard to hold a beer while you're skiing, so you know.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's true, actually.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it is like that.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: You you sitting down in the mountains, either in the summer or the winter with a drink, you can do it, but it's just not it's not like uh like together like salt and pepper, like uh beach and a drink is, right?
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like I gotta work out in the mountains, which I like to do too, but again, you said you know, which one better.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: Uh number 10 is uh in your opinion, what is the scariest animal?
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: Probably a snake.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I do a lot of hunting, and uh, if you go turkey hunting in Texas, you know that the rattlesnakes are always out to get you.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: You gotta kind of watch for them and put little dust powder around behind you so they'll stay away.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: But that one time you walk away to go get your turkey and come back, and there's a snake sitting in your spot because you had warmed it up for him is just that doesn't do it for me at all.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: I would imagine that you will not be living in Australia anytime soon.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I live here in Colorado, and uh we have some rattlesnakes, but we also have bull snakes.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: And for those of you that know or don't know, the bull snake looks very much like a rattlesnake, right?
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: The coloring is the same all the rest of it, except one has a rattle and one doesn't.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the shape of the head is a little bit different on the on the bull snake versus the rattlesnake.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I was in my yard the other day, and this map, I mean, this must be like a six-foot snake was going through my my backyard, and I I jumped back and immediately started doing my inspection to look for the rattle.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: Luckily, it was just a bull snake, which is which are good.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: They eat the rodents in the in the backyard.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, all the rats and stuff, yeah, for sure.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: But any any snake scares the crap out of me, I've got to tell you.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's uh this is not my comfort zone uh living around snakes.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: All right, number 15.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: What is the most used app on your phone?
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: The weather app.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: Again, live in Texas, used it last night many, many times.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: I even my daughter's boyfriend's at AM and they had tornado warnings headed towards them.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I was, you know, alert always alerting my friends if they're in harm's way, and then obviously my family if we're we're in harm's way.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: But that I got three weather apps on there, and they get used more than anything on my phone.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: You got three apps for weather?
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, that's nuts.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: Well, one is the weather channel that gives you the 10-day forecast, one is the uh just that gives you the almost the heat map of where the actual rain is, maybe not where the storm is, but where it's raining because you know you want to know if you need to water your yard, that sort of thing.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: And then I have the one that that's my most favorite that the pilots use that has sticks that tell you how fast the wind is blowing so that you can see where the storm is actually the strongest and when it's how fast it's going to get to you.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: Because my kids will or my wife will say, When's the storm gonna get here, Dad?
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, 20 to 30 minutes.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like I can almost tell them how fast it's going, how fast it can get there.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I had all those questions just last night just to prove that point.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: So you know, it's funny.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: I I when you first said that, I thought, do you really need an app to know it's gonna be hot and humid all summer in Texas?
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: No, but hot.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: Hot.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: I've forgotten about the uh about all the storms you guys get.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it happens a lot, right?
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: Let's talk about your career.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: So if I look at your LinkedIn profile, Craig, uh, I'll read out the names of the cybersecurity companies where you've uh applied your trade.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: McAfee, EI Digital, App Dynamics, not pure play uh cybersecurity, right?
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: But off on the app side.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Mimecast, CA, Silence, Secure Auth, and now you're R VP at Beyond Trust.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: There's a there's a rich uh list of great cybersecurity companies that are there.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: But if we go back to right to the very beginning, how did you first make money as a kid?
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I worked at McDonald's, and it was uh right on by an interstate, and I was uh just a cleaner at first and a cook and then got to be like, you know, semi-manager or I don't even remember what it was called, CSM or whatever it was called, some kind of manager, but it was right on the interstate, and we used to have like buses pull up and we'd all go, oh God, here we go, and have to just, you know, meet buns flying everywhere, you know, that sort of thing.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: But it was I learned a ton, and that was probably a great first job for any kid to go in and figure out what they don't want to do with the rest of their lives.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: Well, on that note, what was your first real job?
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: McAfee was probably the first, and so definitely in security and software was the first real job, and I got in early, and I it was you know back in '97 when you know it was very early in the antivirus business.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: So it was really fun, a lot of fun.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: Do you remember the first deal you won there?
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't know if it was my first deal, but the first one that really sticks out.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: They, you know, they brought me in, it was kind of a SDR role at first, and then I picked up a territory, but I picked up a territory that no one had ever worked before.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, here, you want to learn how to be a rep?
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna give you Canada.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: We have no idea what to do with Canada, so here you have Canada.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and what they didn't realize was is there was a lot of business in Canada, especially Toronto area and and uh Ontario.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: And uh we did I did this deal with uh Ontario Hydro, and it was you know it was like 600, 700 grand, something like that.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just an inside sales rep.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: So it got me to pass my number.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: I was like 250, got to go to club, and then really parlayed that whole territory selling other deals into becoming a manager and kind of starting my career as a leader.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: So 600k deal in 97.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's a big deal.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: It was a big deal, yeah.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: Mind you, it was a three-year deal, so you know, divide that up.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: But it was a big deal for McAfee days.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: I remember um, you know, massive deals were over a million dollars in those days, right?
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: They didn't come by too often that I remember.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: But uh mid-six figures, that was a good sized deal and probably unheard of at the time, someone closed in Insight as well.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: To be honest, I didn't do much in that deal.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: The partner had it already teed up.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: I went in there and just made relationships and made sure it could get across the finish line.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: I learned about how to how do you get through legal, how do you get through all these things that I had never really dealt with before, right?
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: So it was a good learning experience.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I bet.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: And now you're a Beyond Trust.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: Give me the quick uh one minute on what does Beyond Trust do?
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: If I was a CISO asking you what it what does Beyond Trust do, what would you say?
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, it's real simple.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: We're a security vendor, right?
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: And we're in the identity and access space.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: So if you want to look at it this way, most attacks come, you know, they start somewhere, but where it gets ugly is when they misuse or you know, improper privileges or are in front of someone.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: Someone stole a password that can get them into a lot of things.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: They get into a network and they can move sideways.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: Well, a password can't help you at that point, right?
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: So Beyond Trust uh uses a modern approach to make sure that we actually look at every user, every session, and every asset to ensure that that we can keep you safe.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a we're security vendors.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: You got they got like uh you know 400 of them that they got to deal with, right?
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: So 3,000 vendors.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: And they probably have you know 50 to 100 tools they've already bought.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: So and how big's your team right now, Craig?
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: Right now I've got eight uh sellers in the West.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: Uh in January, I'll be picking up four more in uh Tola.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: Got it.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: Well, let's go on to the subject for today.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: So one of the things that uh when I'm talking with CEOs at early stage companies and they're asking questions about how do I start building the sales team?
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what profile do I look for for a sales leader?
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: When do I bring the sales leader in?
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: What do I call them?
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: Do I go for a you know, a big CRO?
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: Do I go for a VP of sales?
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: All these questions they're asking.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: And uh they don't have much experience of uh hiring salespeople or hiring a sales team usually, right?
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: So one of the things that we talk about is for them to look out for, if they're looking for early, early signs of success or things to worry about, is if they bring a sales leader in who's been in in cybersecurity for quite a while, but they aren't able to bring sellers with them, right?
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: So they come in and they immediately want to go and start talking to recruiters to try and find fresh blood, but it's it's not people they know.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I always say, you know, a great leader, someone who really works with their team well and is able to build teams successfully, can't do it from scratch every single time.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: They've got to have the ability to bring people with them.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I I know it's not easy, right?
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's not easy to do it, but you know, when we're talking just now about this, it's important that people who want to get into leadership roles in startups, they need to be able to do this.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: They need to bring bring people with them.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: So when you think about what you do and how you run your business and how you work with your team, what is the, I don't know, one of the first things that you look to do to start building that relationship with them over time?
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a great question.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's probably if I've looked back at my career, that's where it's probably helped me the most is the thing, little things that I do that I learned from my mentors.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: And first off is, you know, not coming into a uh a new team and and trying to blow them up.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like, who do I got to fire first?
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that mentality, which is a lot of what a lot of people do when they come into a new team.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: Mine is what can I do to help you be successful?
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna go build help you build a plan, and it's gonna have stuff for you to do on it and stuff for me to do on it.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: And then ultimately it's us together in the field, leading from the front, making it happen.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: When I do those things and I make people money or help them make money, that starts a trust level.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's many other things that you can do to you know cement it, make it better, stronger, all those things over time.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: But that's the beginning pieces of how I get somebody to believe in me and trust me, because I can't do anything with them past that until I get them to trust me.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: And it might take a month, it might take six months.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: It just, you know, I got to get there first.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: And how often have you found that when you take over the team, you've been told, you know, oh, these three are need to be fired, right?
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: And when you really dig in, you realize actually, no, there's there's actually some good people in here that we could actually work with.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: That happens every single time, uh, actually.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm picking up Tola and I'm being told the same thing, right?
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's just it you have to go find out for yourself.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: And what I what I find is probably 25, 30% of the time that is true.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: You get in there and you really feel like, okay.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: And what the what I've seen, the the ones that are actually right like that, the manager or the boss leader, whatever, was actually out with them trying to do stuff and it just wasn't getting better.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe this is just really not what they're good at, or they're just not, they don't have the skill set that they need.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: The rest of the time, almost a hundred percent of that time, it's have you been in the field with them?
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: Well, no.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: Well, have you do you get on calls with them?
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, they have no idea, they just don't, they don't like each other, and you gotta go fire that guy.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: And that's that's ridiculous, right?
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: And and luckily I've worked for my boss, Mike Williams, at three companies, and his first line when someone says I want to fire someone, is he does that.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: He goes right down the when's the last time you're on a call with them?
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: When when have you been in their territory working with them?
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: What are you what are you doing to help them?
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and those answers are always like paper thin, and it's like, okay, we're not firing that person, we're gonna go figure out how we make the relationship better.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's typically what back to your first question is there's no trust, there's no bond, there's no, I'm gonna help you be successful.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: And when you talk about helping them build the plan, what do we what do you mean by that?
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: How does that process work?
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: So it starts with an Excel spreadsheet.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: I take their quota, break it out into the four quarters that they have, and we take our ASP and say, okay, we got to get this many deals per quarter.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: And then you just back everything into it.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: What activity is it gonna take to get there?
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: What are the accounts you already know about so we can start plotting that out?
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: Where, how much new business are we gonna need?
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: How much, how much add-ons do we need, how much you know, services are we gonna have to have depending on the plan, and just build the whole year out on what's it what it's gonna take to get it done, and then put here's what you're gonna do to go get it done, and here's what I'm gonna do to go get it done.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: Most of what those things are, it's building infrastructure, your channel, all the internal people.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: I build relationships internal with everyone.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: So if I need something, I can just call them on the phone and say, hey, I need some help.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: And that's something I can help build trust with with my people as well.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's like helping them with problems.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: I guess, I mean, that happens all the time, right?
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: There's always a we need to go and get something fixed.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: I need to get some resources.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: How do you do that internally so you have these relationships already set up?
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: So the easiest way, and I, you know, I just started here in February.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: So first thing I did was go find out all the people that could touch my business and just start setting calls with them.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: After I set calls with them, I try to decide what frequency should I talk to this person?
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: Is it every week?
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: Is it every other week?
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: Is it monthly, quarterly, and set that up and get them to agree to it?
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll give you a good example uh in uh our legal, for example.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: We've set a weekly call because we've been having some issues and we can't get things across the finish line.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so we set a weekly call and we have a spreadsheet set up and we put all the deals that are important, and then every week we go in and talk about it.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: What do we need to get done?
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a a lot of accountability in a phone call that you have to do every week, and you know, here's what we're doing, what are you doing?
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that kind of thing.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: It really helps the relationship over time started very tumultuous.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: And hey, this Craig guy thinks he knows everything.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: Now it's okay, Craig's got some real stuff.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: We're actually closing deals.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: We need to show up every week and make sure that we're helping him get that stuff done.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: And it was just that meetings versus frequency over time and making sure we spend enough time to get it done.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: So you've come into a team, you've figured out you know what the reality is, not what you were told.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: Then you start building plans with these folks, and as they're good about doing their day-to-day job, you're helping them knock down some internal things that might need to be knocked down.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: What else are you doing on a day-to-day basis to be with them and and work with them?
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: So you know, just kind of the way the week looks, there's a Monday meeting and it has everybody on it.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: Marketing, you know, uh SDRs, our channel folks, it has everybody and we all try to get on the same page for the week.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: And if there's things that are going on that week, let's talk about it, figure out how we all make sure nothing gets dropped.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: Then I do one-on-ones with my reps and I spend an hour a week with them, and I know that sounds like a lot, but it's not a lot.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: If half of it's for me to get the forecast correct and the deals and the update on the deals, and the other half is all about them.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: What do they need?
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: What are what are the things I can do to go help them?
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: Whether it's I just did it twice this morning.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, Craig, I need you to go send an email to this CISO and the CIO because I'm kind of stuck and they're saying they're gonna get this done, but we got we got till Friday, till the end of this month, kind of thing, and go help me with that, that kind of stuff.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: Just those types of things that are going on on the one-on-ones.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: And then on Fridays, I have just me and the team, no extra people, no nothing.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: And we talk about pipeline.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's our we call it our wig call, widely important goals.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I got that out of you know, Joe Sexton from McFe, but I call it that, but we do a lot of other things.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: I really just want to have that standing call.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: Because if that week we need to talk about just one thing and it has nothing to do with what our wig wigs are, we're gonna stop and do that because I want them to have a forum or a place where we can go act as a team and and work.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: So that's kind of what my week looks like.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: But my interactions are get in front of customers with them, go to shows.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: If we go to a show, I'm like, I'm not going to the show unless you set up at least four or five appointments with important people, customers, prospects, partners, whatever mix of things is the best.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll go and I'll help support, I'll talk, I'll do whatever I need to do.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: But that's what I ask of my reps.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: And that has been huge, especially over the summertime, because that's when all the travel and the shows and all that stuff were.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: So if I if I was had any gaps on any trust from February to the summer, I fixed all that with getting out in front of them and helping them and showing them that I'm I will not mess up a deal.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: I will only help them in a deal and I'll accelerate things, build relationships, all that good stuff.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: So when you go on a sales call with them to a prospect, what's your role on the call?
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: Man, it could be anything.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: I I tell my reps that this is the one big thing that reps always tell me when I come into a team is they're they're worried that I'm gonna be that last boss they had that took over their deal and wouldn't let them close it and called behind their back and all these things that just make reps angry and that cut down on that trust level of you.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: I say, what is my role in this?
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: And it could be anywhere from I just need your title here so this customer will understand that we're serious or whatever, or it's hey, when we get to this one piece, you're really good at telling this story about you know our upcoming plans for a company.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: Or it could be, I need you to be the one doing the presentation in this because we're gonna have the the CIO in there and I want him to feel like we're presenting to him and you know, have somebody of it just depends.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: But I let them help me decide what my role's gonna be because then they feel like they got a business partner versus a boss that's just gonna dictate stuff to them.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: So they've got their plan they're executing, and you're just helping.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: With them at each step of the way, right?
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: Whatever they need me to do, I'll I will be that person for them.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: And when things aren't going well and you need to kind of have a conversation about things aren't going to the plan, right?
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: How do you handle that?
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, praise in public and uh and punish in in private, and it's not really punish anymore.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's a bad word, but you know, to have those conversations you were just talking about.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't do them in meetings, I don't do them in one-on-ones, it's a separate time.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I just say, hey, something came up about this, this, and this.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: I want to just put 30 minutes on there.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: I want to talk to you.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: And what I try to do is do it in a coaching fashion and not a punitive way or anything like that.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: But I also tell them if it's depending on the severity of it, I'll say, hey, I'm I have to send you an email after this recapping what we talked about.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: If it's something that's severe enough or whatever to make sure that they know, look, I don't want to do this, but I have to do this, so let's let's not repeat this so I don't have to do that again, right?
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to do that.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: And those conversations are never good.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're honest with people and you do it in a coaching fashion versus a hey, you suck type of fashion, those are the people that I've had the strongest bonds with over times, even if I don't rehire them, if they end up being someone I don't want to rehire, I still help them and and try to do stuff because I I try to make genuine connections with people.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: And that's you know, go back to your original question, how do you get people to work for you?
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: Is if you make a general connection, they make money with you, they trust you, they'll come work for you again anytime.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: Let's talk about that genuine connection.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how much do you stick on the business side and how much do you sit on uh stick talk about their their personal side?
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's a little different with everybody.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's a tough question because some people don't want to let let you in, and that's fine.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: And some people want to let you in too much, and you got to ratchet that back a little bit.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's gotta be a healthy mix, and I don't know, maybe 30, 70 to that, you know, 70 being the business side of things because we still got a lot to do.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but you know, I start every call off with letting them let loose a little bit and talk about their weekend, especially on Monday calls.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: If you know you're doing something right, if people are joining your call early versus saying, hey, I can't join your call, right?
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I so I gauge my interactions with the team is do they enjoy the calls?
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: Do they feel like, oh God, I gotta get Craig, I gotta be my boss, I gotta get on the call, or is it, hey, I'm looking forward to it.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know, he was telling me he's taking his kids to haunted house.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: Can't wait to hear how that went.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and that's exactly what happened Monday.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's like they all wanted to hear about the haunted house and how, you know, was I did I pee my pants?
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, well, maybe a little bit.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: So then you you got the team working along the way.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: You talked about the the obstacles that come up.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: One of the things I found was that there are certain people who remove obstacles, there's certain people that don't, and there's some people that remove obstacles fast.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I always felt like the ones that worked with me fast were the ones that I really valued.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so it's not hard to do what it is.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's hard to get people to trust you to do them for you, so they don't just go do everything themselves.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: And in the planning sessions in the beginning, when I build their plans, we talk about what are the things that you run into that slow you down and where can I be interjected.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so we'll set up a plan for even, okay, legal is not getting back to you after a day.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: That's a direct text to me, Craig 911, legal's dragging ass.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: I need you to help, right?
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: That kind of stuff.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: So we actually go set things like that into plan where they know exactly how to interact with me to get me to do something quick.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll give you a quick example of just kind of overall is like I just said, text is I need it done like fast, right?
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: We have Teams here.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: So Teams is a fantastic app that we use for a lot of different things.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: Teams, if it's hey, today, we need to talk about this at some point, or can you answer me about this today sometime?
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: And then email is hey, I need this to be in your inbox that we need to do this.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it doesn't have to be today, but I need this on your to-do list because my inbox is my to-do list and I won't take it out of there until it's done.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: That way it helps me kind of keep track of when things come in.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: I make sure right now it's overflowing.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: I need to spend some time on it.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: But those are kind of the ways that I that I take care of that.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: And uh you mentioned channel relationships before as well.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I don't know.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: In my experience is when you're in an enterprise team, your job is to go sell, and then part of your job or a smaller part of it is sell with the channel, usually, right?
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: Even for very channel focused models, you still got to take ownership of what you're doing.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: I'm wondering how you coach the team about how to get that balance right.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: That is very tricky with what we do.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we want to be 100% channel, but that's a that's like saying you want to be 100% safe, right?
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: You you get as close as you can get and keep running at it.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: With the channel, what I try to do with the channel is I try to lead from the front on that.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: I get at my channel, my cam, and we're still building this list out all the way, but I want them to find my counterparts on the other side because step one for me is to meet those people when I go to shows or when I'm in town, grabbing lunch, that sort of thing.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then for my reps, I spend a lot of time trying to get them mapped because we're named accounts, right?
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: So that I'm trying to get them mapped to the right people so they at least know who that is.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: Then in our one-on-ones, I'm like, hey, have you taken that person to lunch?
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: Have you all gotten together?
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: I want to I push the issue of activity with those people because that's just kind of step one is getting to know everybody and doing all that.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: Then it becomes, let's go find one pipeline deal that we can get together and work on.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: If we do that, they'll learn about our product because they don't know any, usually they don't know anything about our products, and we've got five products to learn, and they've got 400, 600, whatever vendors that they're trying to work with and that sort of thing.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I try to get that relationship built at the beginning.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: Then our channel team needs to come in and help us with step two.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: How do we start building the program up and getting more, you know, thousand dollars for a lead or whatever, all that stuff going on, on top of being able to get our trainers in there to train their smart people, because that's how really how deals start getting done in the channel is getting their architects and their smart folks to learn our product or be a part of a deal.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: And they're like, oh my God, this plugs in so well at this.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: On next time we do one of these deals, I'm gonna bring bring up Beyond Trust, that sort of thing.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: And then the last piece is how do you keep it going and how do you start going from, you know, we're calling 50% channel, 40 something percent.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: How do we get to 60% and and start getting more strategic on, and we're doing that right now in our planning sessions, on who do we want to spend some more time and who do we want to spend some more money with, maybe some smaller ones that we've left in the dust a little bit to go find those people that have some of those niche deals that we want to work on next year, that sort of thing.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: As I hear you talking, I'm gonna wrap up by by saying that um, you know, all the things that you've you've talked about, there's no uh weird and wacky silver bullet that has never been done before, right?
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: To me, this is good, good, good uh leadership of a team working with them and for them and doing it all together, it seems to me.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and just making sure that you know I do have to help them get better.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I use experience as a great way, you know.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'll give you a good example in forecasting.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I've got one guy that's he's gonna blow his number out this year and go into club, and he he's was with Avecta, one of the companies we bought for five years before he came here, so we should be killing it, right?
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: But he can't forecast to save his life because they'll say, hey, we're getting that, we want to do this this quarter.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, boom, commit.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I've spent spent the last few months like, no, that's not how that works.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: We got to go do a reverse timeline and get them to buy into all these.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: Here's all the things that have to get done, and we got to get them to sign off on that and go through all the way through MedPick and make sure we have all the pieces that we're not missing anything.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: And that guy that can sell better than me still needs help with all the other things that put together a really good sales rep and a good leader.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: I can't I told him, I'm like, look, you're you got an MO in this company as you know how to sell this stuff.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: You could be an SE on your own.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: You don't need your SEs half the time, but you can't forecast.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: I go, by the end of this year, I'm gonna have the company believing that you're the guy that can do everything.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: So now you're promotable.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: If they want to put you in globals or what you know, whatever you want to do, we get that done.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: But that's that one thing that, and it's not a huge thing, it's just something you just need to learn to get better at, right?
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: And we do that, and you're gonna be off to the races.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, guys like that, he leaves in a couple of years and I go somewhere else or whatever.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: That kind of mentality connection and relationship will get that guy to want to work for me again because he'll know, hey, that guy made me a little better.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: I made good money with him, and he was easy to work for, not a jerk, all those kinds of things.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I love that because you've got the experience, right?
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know what's coming around the corner, you know, looking down the road where the minefield or the little holes might be, the potholes.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: And somewhere, you know, it's like in the middle of a deal when you're running a deal as an AE, sometimes it's tough to stick your head up a little bit and you know, see the forest for the trees.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: And that's that example, right?
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_01: You're helping that person get better.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I bet their stress and their and their selling life will be better in the coming years because they just they're able to actually do a proper forecast as opposed to uh guessing half the time.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: Whether they realize it or not, that it'll get better, right?
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's you know, that's why you're here.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: Someone's hopefully you're learning something from somebody.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I I do that too, right?
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: I if I'm not learning from somebody, then I don't feel like I'm getting better either.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I kind of try to force that issue as much as possible on my side too.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I hope those that have been listening to this uh have got a little bit better as well.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I've seen and heard what you know really sound leadership uh means when you're running a sales team.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: And when I think about the early stage companies that I work with, one of the things that they try to balance is do I get someone super senior?
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_01: Do I get someone more junior?
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: What's the right mix?
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what the right mix is for every company, but certainly these sorts of traits are what is going to make a difference, right?
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: You need someone who has that fundamental knowledge about how to go do this to be able to take the team, build a team, and uh and deliver great results.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: So, Craig, listen, I really appreciate you joining uh me today on the Sales Blue Rub podcast.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, if someone wants to get in touch with you and talk about this some more or whatever, what's the best way to do that?
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: Uh probably just email uh Craig at cdentum.com is my personal email and I check that every day.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: So Craig at C D E N T O N dot com.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's the best way to get to me.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome, Craig.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_01: Appreciate you joining us.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: You're all the best.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Andrew.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: Good to see you.