Latest / Dishing with Stephanie's Dish / Jenna Helwig's Cookbookery Collective is a community for cookbook lovers on Substack

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Jenna Helwig's Cookbookery Collective is a community for cookbook lovers on Substack · Dishing with Stephanie's Dish

• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: Hello,
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: everybody,
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: and welcome to Dishing with Stephanie's Dish,
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: the podcast where we talk to people that are obsessed with food,
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: cookbooks,
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: and all things in the food space.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: And today I'm speaking with Jenna Helwig,
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: and I kind of came across her mostly on Substack,
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: which I think maybe will make her be surprised.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: I found her as the creator of the Cookbookery Collective...
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: cookbook newsletter.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, hey, you're into cookbooks.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'm into cookbooks.
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  SPEAKER_00: Let's talk about cookbooks.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: And we got the call set up.
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  And then she said,
• 0:44
  oh,
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  and by the way,
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  I am the food director of Real Simple Magazine.
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  And I was like,
• 0:52
  oh,
• 0:52
  just that small detail that I literally did not even know about you.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so embarrassed.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the program.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me.
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  And I'm thrilled that you found me through the Substack because
• 1:03
  that's a newish
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: thing for me.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I love that, you know, people are reading it.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I was so like, I'm just obsessed with cookbooks.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I am a cookbook writer.
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  SPEAKER_00: I'm on my second book that's coming up.
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  And I read a lot about trying to get published and different
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  points of view of cookbooks.
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  And we have quite a few good cookbook authors that hail from
• 1:26
  the Midwest and the
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  SPEAKER_00: Twin Cities here.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: And you had,
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  SPEAKER_00: I think,
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  SPEAKER_00: done an interview with my friend Zoe from Zoe Bakes,
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  SPEAKER_00: which probably is how I found out about you.
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  SPEAKER_01: That is probably right.
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  SPEAKER_01: Yes, Zoe.
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  SPEAKER_01: Also, I think of Amy Thielen.
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  I know she's not right there,
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  but she's,
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  you know,
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  in the vicinity,
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  right?
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  SPEAKER_01: So for sure.
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  SPEAKER_01: And Pinch of Yum, aren't they based in Minneapolis?
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  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, a good food thing going.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
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  SPEAKER_00: And the food dolls just published their book.
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  SPEAKER_00: They have like 8 million followers.
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  SPEAKER_00: Amazing.
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  SPEAKER_00: I guess I did that interview.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_00: And who was that?
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: Sarah Kiefer.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know her?
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  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yes, of course.
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  SPEAKER_00: Her cookies, baked goods.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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  We are all from the Twin Cities and most of them have like
• 2:11
  specialty angles.
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  SPEAKER_00: Like I am just a home cook.
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  SPEAKER_00: So that's sort of my point of view on the Midwest.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_00: But it has been a really great market to be in.
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  SPEAKER_00: And one of the things that I started a radio show about 17 years ago,
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  SPEAKER_00: so we've talked a lot of these people along the way.
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  SPEAKER_00: And right when we started the radio show,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: Facebook and Instagram were launching Instagram.
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  And it's been such an interesting trajectory to see cookbook
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  authors in particular.
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  SPEAKER_00: And like everyone's like, oh, print is dead.
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  SPEAKER_00: Like magazines are dead.
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  SPEAKER_00: Publications are dead.
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  SPEAKER_00: And yet, you know, cookbooks are in some respects doing better than ever.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I agree.
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  SPEAKER_01: I feel like they are thriving.
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  SPEAKER_01: I also feel like,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: at least for me personally,
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  SPEAKER_01: and I do notice this,
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  SPEAKER_01: though,
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  with a lot of other people that we are on our screens all the
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  time and we're kind
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  SPEAKER_01: of tired of it.
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  SPEAKER_01: So whether it's a cookbook or even a print magazine,
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  SPEAKER_01: like there's just something so lovely about turning pages,
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  SPEAKER_01: just like shutting out everything else.
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  SPEAKER_01: No other notifications are popping up on your screen.
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  SPEAKER_01: So print is very special.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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  And it feels like you can have like personal one on one time
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  with it because you
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  SPEAKER_00: can set your phone down and really immerse yourself in the story.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yes, exactly.
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  SPEAKER_00: We all need more of that.
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  SPEAKER_00: I think so.
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  SPEAKER_00: My food magazines, too.
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  You mentioned that you're the food director of Real Simple and
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  you guys are having
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  SPEAKER_00: your 25th anniversary.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I literally before you sent me that text, I was like reading it.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I'm a subscriber.
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  So I'm going to hold up my copy here because I really I love
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  food print,
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  too.
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  I worked in the newspaper business and I'm kind of a tactile
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  print person also.
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  And you had a really cool feature this month about what's the
• 4:00
  best takeaway you've
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  SPEAKER_00: ever gotten from Real Simple because you guys are in your 25th birthday.
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  SPEAKER_00: So I thought I'd ask you what your best takeaway is.
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  SPEAKER_01: Oh, my gosh, that's such a hard question.
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  SPEAKER_01: All right.
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  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure it's going to be food related.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I'm kind of going to cheat and pick something from that month.
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  I worked with Molly Ye on the beautiful birthday cake that's on
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  the cover.
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  And,
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  you know,
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  one of the things she did that I feel like I've used in other videos,
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  SPEAKER_01: In other applications,
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  but never for frosting was she used instead of food coloring
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  freeze dried raspberry
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  SPEAKER_01: powder to make the beautiful pink frosting.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I just hadn't done that before.
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  And it was so easy and such a kind of natural way to make
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  something look so lovely.
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  Yeah,
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  that's funny because,
• 4:53
  yeah,
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  and the cake,
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  it's a lemon poppy seed cake.
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  And then it has like a raspberry pink frosting on the outside
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  and then raspberry
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  SPEAKER_00: jam on the inside.
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  SPEAKER_00: It really,
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  SPEAKER_00: it also gives you a little bit of that raspberry flavor in the frosting,
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  but it's not like super wet like it would be if you used real
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  raspberries or also
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  SPEAKER_00: like super overly sweet if you used just jam.
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  SPEAKER_01: You know what?
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  That is exactly right because it lends that little bit of
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  tartness to it too.
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  SPEAKER_01: And so it's just such a nicely balanced frosting.
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  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_00: So you are a cookbook writer yourself.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm forgetting the name of your books.
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  SPEAKER_00: It's Minute Dinners or Dinner and... Bare Minimum Dinners.
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  SPEAKER_00: Bare Minimum.
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  SPEAKER_01: Yes, Bare Minimum Dinners.
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  SPEAKER_01: So I'm all for that.
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  SPEAKER_00: And you've had a number of cookbooks, I think, aren't you?
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  SPEAKER_00: Like you've had a few more of that too.
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  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
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  SPEAKER_01: So I've written five books.
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  SPEAKER_01: Three of them were more in the like
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  SPEAKER_01: Family baby toddler space.
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  SPEAKER_01: I used to be the food editor at Parents Magazine.
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  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
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  SPEAKER_01: And so that was really how I kind of got into cookbook writing.
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  I started with real baby food and then wrote one called Baby
• 6:07
  Lead Feeding.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I will say that is by far my best selling cookbook.
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  You know,
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  it's still something we actually did a reissue a couple of
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  years ago.
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  SPEAKER_01: So I did an updated version.
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  SPEAKER_01: It's still something that parents are finding.
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  SPEAKER_01: And that just makes me so happy.
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  My neighbor who just had a baby,
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  she's going to be two,
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  was obsessed with that book because...
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  I just she knows I write cookbooks and I film a TV show in my house,
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  too.
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  SPEAKER_00: So I'm always bringing them food.
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  SPEAKER_00: And when she first had the baby,
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  SPEAKER_00: she showed it to me and she was like,
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  SPEAKER_00: have you ever heard of this book?
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  SPEAKER_00: And it was.
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  SPEAKER_01: Oh, my gosh, that's amazing.
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  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's so great.
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  SPEAKER_01: I that's a really hard time of life as I,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  just like trying to figure out no one really tells you how to
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  feed your baby,
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  SPEAKER_01: which is strange.
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  SPEAKER_01: And so I think anything that I could do to make it just less stressful,
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  SPEAKER_01: that was always my goal with those books.
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  And I think that there's so much to be said about just getting
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  dinner on the table.
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  SPEAKER_00: Like it's almost a political act these days just to like be working,
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  SPEAKER_00: be taking care of your mental health,
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  SPEAKER_00: be worrying about your social time with your kids,
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  SPEAKER_00: your family,
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  SPEAKER_00: your family,
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  SPEAKER_00: aging parents.
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  SPEAKER_00: And then all of a sudden,
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  SPEAKER_00: every day,
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  someone is supposed to like be putting all these elaborate
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  meals on the table,
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  SPEAKER_00: like sometimes just even surviving a day without the food.
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  SPEAKER_00: And then you have this whole other stressor on top of it.
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  SPEAKER_01: I could not agree more.
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  SPEAKER_01: I mean, which is why I thought of bare minimum dinners.
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  SPEAKER_01: Like it's this idea.
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  SPEAKER_01: And we do this also in real simple, you know, it's very similar.
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  SPEAKER_01: They're like,
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  SPEAKER_01: I call fussy the F word.
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  I'm like nothing fussy,
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  you know,
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  especially when we're talking about recipes in the magazine.
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  SPEAKER_01: Skip the garnish.
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  Like,
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  you know,
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  there's you're not putting on a show for anyone,
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  you know,
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  just do what you can.
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  That's really,
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  you know,
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  what is it better or good is better than perfect.
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  SPEAKER_01: Done is better than perfect.
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  SPEAKER_01: Just get it done.
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  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
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  And some people like because they feel like they're trying to
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  live up to something
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  SPEAKER_00: in an Instagram photo,
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  it prevents them from having a dinner party or making food for
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  a neighbor because
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  SPEAKER_00: maybe it's like not good enough.
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  SPEAKER_00: You know,
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  SPEAKER_00: just the sheer act of eating and providing food for your family,
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  SPEAKER_00: whoever your family looks like,
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  SPEAKER_00: or even just for yourself is
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  SPEAKER_00: you are going to eat better.
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  SPEAKER_00: You're going to have more control over what you eat.
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  SPEAKER_00: I have eaten at a million restaurants in my life.
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  And I just find that I always feel so much better when I'm
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  cooking at home.
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  SPEAKER_01: I agree.
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  SPEAKER_01: I love to go out to eat.
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  SPEAKER_01: However, then if
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  SPEAKER_01: If I do that too much, I'm like, OK, I just need to reset at home.
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  SPEAKER_01: And,
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  I've also noticed that in some cookbooks there has been this
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  trend towards the food
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  SPEAKER_01: not being overly styled or the author doing that themselves.
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  SPEAKER_01: I'm thinking about like Julia Tertian with her last book.
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  You know,
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  she photographed that herself and the food looks great,
• 9:06
  but also real.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
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  And also the book Chinese Enough that I just featured in
• 9:13
  Cookbookery Collective.
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  SPEAKER_01: You know, those recipes just don't feel like nitpick to death.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they're just very natural looking.
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  SPEAKER_00: I feel like we might see more of that.
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  SPEAKER_00: I photographed my own book,
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  but it was simply out of necessity because I didn't have 20
• 9:28
  grand to pay someone.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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  I said to the publisher,
• 9:32
  well,
• 9:32
  if my Instagram's okay,
• 9:34
  I'm going to do like similar to that.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: Is that okay?
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: And they were like, sure.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, great.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: As we look at cookbooks as a genre,
• 9:44
  things have changed a lot because it used to be that you were a
• 9:49
  professional chef
• 9:50
  or you were a restaurant chef and you were writing about your
• 9:53
  restaurant or you
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  SPEAKER_00: were a small group of people that were super experienced in cooking and
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe you had,
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: 10 books that you were writing in the different genres,
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  SPEAKER_00: you did vegetarian and gluten free and then dairy free.
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  SPEAKER_00: Now,
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  like the cookbook space is really kind of being taken up by
• 10:10
  regular people or
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  SPEAKER_00: influencers in a lot of respects.
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  SPEAKER_00: Does that open the door for more excitement?
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  SPEAKER_00: Or is it sometimes do you worry that maybe the books aren't as good?
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's a tough question.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: I think that anything that gets people cooking is good.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I am,
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: if it is someone without a lot of cooking experience who has a book,
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: but it still excites people to get into the kitchen,
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: fantastic.
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  SPEAKER_01: So that's really my main goal.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: I do think,
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: where I am in my life,
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: like I really want to learn something new from a cookbook.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: So that's what I personally am looking for.
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  But there are cooks of all different,
• 10:55
  you know,
• 10:55
  ability levels and experience levels.
• 10:57
  So I think that having a variety of cookbooks that can reach
• 11:00
  everyone where they
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: are is probably the answer.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: There is so much diversity, too, in cookbooks now.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: No offense to the old,
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: beautiful Asian cookbooks that you would get,
• 11:13
  but you didn't really feel like you could make a lot of the
• 11:16
  things out of there
• 11:17
  because maybe you didn't have the ingredients or you weren't
• 11:19
  familiar with technique.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: The more recent diversity in cookbooks,
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  SPEAKER_00: it feels like you can actually make some of these things.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think that's right.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: Some of the things do feel more accessible.
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  And also we just have access to so many more ingredients now,
• 11:39
  which is amazing.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: Just even at like regular grocery stores.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: My parents live in Colorado and like in the suburbs.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I was, you know, just driving by where I used to live.
• 11:49
  And there was an H Mart,
• 11:50
  you know,
• 11:51
  which I like my jaw just like fell on the floor.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: There's no H Mart there when I was growing up.
• 11:57
  So the fact that I could have had access to all of those
• 11:59
  ingredients and now the
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: people who live in Broomfield,
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: Colorado,
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: is a miracle.
• 12:05
  That's so funny because I'm actually reading Crying in H Mart
• 12:08
  right now from my book club.
• 12:09
  And it's just a delightful memoir about a woman who's
• 12:13
  experiencing the loss of her
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: mother through the Korean cooking and heritage that she had growing up.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: And it's really a delightful book.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's so good.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: When you are thinking of what you want to write about for your sub stack,
• 12:26
  because in some ways I'm surprised that you still find this
• 12:30
  topic and this genre
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: interesting after having worked at Real Simple for five years,
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: because it's almost like feels like,
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: is it too much of the food?
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: But it really is steeped in you.
• 12:40
  And how do you pick like what you want to feature on your
• 12:43
  Substack versus what would
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: maybe be a potential something in the magazine down the road?
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: Or is it just all the love and all of the same?
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I,
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: for real simple,
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: obviously I get to kind of put a lot of myself into there and,
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: kind of direct that coverage,
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: pitch what I think we should cover.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm always doing that through the lens of our audience.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what, and I, she's usually a she, you know, what does she want?
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: How much time does she have?
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: What's going to make her life easier?
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I really hyper focus on that.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of it does kind of mirror my life because I am,
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: you know, kind of similar to The Real Simple Reader.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: But that's primary.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like with the Substack, I can just do whatever I want.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's really like the books and the authors that speak to me the most.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's nice to kind of have that,
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: freedom,
• 13:36
  even if it's something that maybe we wouldn't cover in the
• 13:39
  magazine or might be a
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: little more obscure.
• 13:41
  You know,
• 13:42
  it's just fun to be able to follow my passions and my interests.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I do love food and I really love cookbooks.
• 13:50
  So it's funny that I spend even extra time with them,
• 13:54
  but it really makes me so happy.
• 13:56
  I am hoping that in Substack's evolution that we get more
• 14:00
  information about who our
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: readers are.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: Because when you're like at a magazine,
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: you have a deep dive in your target market and the radio show,
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: they know exactly who your P1s are.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: In Substack,
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: you have followers,
• 14:13
  but you don't exactly know that much about them except
• 14:16
  basically where they come from.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: That is such a good point.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm sure you also know so much more about this than me.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'm still I'm such a newbie.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: I've been a Substack subscriber for a long time.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: But now I just launched this.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: you know, like over a month, just over a month ago.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm still figuring out all the analytics and everything.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: But I agree that that would be super helpful just to know more.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like,
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: and I've also been thinking,
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: and maybe you've done this,
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: have you done surveys of your audience,
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: your subscribers?
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: And also like people don't love to fill them all out.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: I love surveys.
• 14:57
  See,
• 14:57
  I do too,
• 14:57
  but that's probably because we're like the publishing types,
• 15:00
  right?
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:02
  So I did a survey and it kind of mirrored what I thought from
• 15:06
  an age perspective,
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: but I didn't get much more details than that.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I think if I was going to give Substack advice,
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: and maybe they'll ask me someday,
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: who knows,
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: that it would be to help us understand who those markets are more,
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: because it does help you frame who you're writing for.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: As you look at the newsletter today,
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: Are you going to continue to speak to authors?
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: Will you ever do recipes on your own?
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like you've been in that space.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't think I will do recipes on my own.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like,
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: when I have ideas for new dishes or new,
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: like stories,
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: I kind of direct those to real simple.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I've done a lot, you know, I've done all those cookbooks.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I sort of feel like the world...
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe he doesn't need more recipes from me.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm very interested in what other people have to say.
• 15:59
  I think that I love doing these author interviews or just the
• 16:03
  interviews with other
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: people in the cookbook community.
• 16:05
  Like I recently interviewed the woman who started Instagram's
• 16:09
  oldest cookbook club.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: She was fascinating.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, great.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: And there was such a good response to that.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'm interested in talking to people in cookbook publishing.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: So just really kind of anyone in that community.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: I think there might be room later for more like reported stories,
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: so not interviews,
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: but like on a certain topic.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: book design or titles or spines.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't think it's going to be recipes for me.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: We'll see.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: It is interesting.
• 16:38
  You asked the woman with the cookbook collection,
• 16:42
  how she organized her collection.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: And she said by type of food or genre.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: But then there's other people that I know that organize it by color.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: I do that.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: And it looks so cool.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like when you have a huge collection and
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: It just, it looks so cool on the shelves.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: But I was like,
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: oh,
• 17:03
  that would be so hard because unless you remembered the color
• 17:06
  of the cookbook,
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: how could you find it?
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:09
  You know,
• 17:09
  I will say,
• 17:10
  so I live in Brooklyn,
• 17:11
  New York in a not huge apartment.
• 17:13
  So I,
• 17:13
  first of all,
• 17:15
  everything has to look as tidy as possible and colorful.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: colors help with that.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I really only have room for about 250 books,
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: as opposed to like Deborah was saying she has 2000.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was crazy.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: So jealous.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: But so somehow in my mind, I know what the color is.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know how to say that.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: So you catalog it.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: So if I had more, maybe that wouldn't work.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:40
  Well,
• 17:41
  and you okay,
• 17:42
  so you live in Brooklyn,
• 17:43
  that is such an amazing food community.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: And
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: And you just have so many great makers.
• 17:48
  And I do find a lot of good makers in Real Simple,
• 17:52
  like people making new artisanal products.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I had a podcast about that for a long time.
• 18:00
  That is really like when you feel like you've discovered
• 18:03
  something that someone
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: turns you on to and it's great.
• 18:07
  That's like one of my favorite discoveries about being involved
• 18:09
  in the food business.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel that way about cookbooks too.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that when it comes to real simple,
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: that's really one of the things that people come to us for.
• 18:19
  They trust our recommendations,
• 18:21
  you know,
• 18:21
  and things that we've discovered.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like that is especially true with our holiday gift guide,
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: which,
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: is like pages and pages every year.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: We spend months on it, you know, finding things, testing things.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: And
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: believe it or not, I'm going to be starting that again soon.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: But yes,
• 18:40
  I think that that it's such a privilege to be finding these new
• 18:43
  things and sharing them.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we really do get good feedback from them.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: Do you get to travel a lot around the country or?
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: there are certainly trips that I am taking for like,
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: I went out to Expo West recently,
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: do you know that it's a big,
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: huge,
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: like food trade show and time and,
• 19:03
  Went and met with a bunch of different brands,
• 19:05
  saw what was going on,
• 19:06
  what was new.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I try to take as many opportunities for travel as possible.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: I really love to just be out and about.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: Did you run across at that show two gals?
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: They have a product called Maza Chutney.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: OK, I was literally just talking to someone about this today.
• 19:24
  In fact,
• 19:25
  I was I sent a photo to my executive editor because,
• 19:28
  yes,
• 19:28
  I did meet them.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: And then I was at the Cherry Bomb Jubilee.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: And they sampled there days ago.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: And they sampled there.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I actually got a couple of bottles.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, can I take that?
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: And they let me.
• 19:39
  And so I was just,
• 19:40
  I made some eggs for lunch today and I put the cilantro chutney
• 19:43
  on top.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: So good.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I was, yeah, just telling one of my colleagues about it.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: So funny.
• 19:48
  I produce culinary markets in the Twin Cities and they were one
• 19:51
  of the first makers
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: that I met when I started doing this.
• 19:55
  And I was just like,
• 19:56
  oh,
• 19:57
  those,
• 19:57
  those girls are onto something and it's a family business.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: Their story is so great.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: The branding is amazing.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: And the food tastes great.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: Are they from there?
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: From the Twin Cities.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: Oh,
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: And they've just developed to like a lentil spread.
• 20:12
  That's like a hummus,
• 20:15
  but with lentils and also super flavorful and delicious.
• 20:18
  So watch for that because that's a brand new product line that
• 20:20
  they just are launching.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, weird coincidence, but funny.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, great product.
• 20:26
  When you can you can you remember your actual first cookbook
• 20:29
  that you got?
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I know it was a Betty Crocker cooking or baking for kids book.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was baking.
• 20:41
  I actually was trying to find the cover recently,
• 20:43
  just like Google search,
• 20:45
  and I couldn't.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that's what it was.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have one?
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: Well...
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I have a few vintage.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of collect.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it wasn't that one because it was a four kids book.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: But I love that.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: It was like baking for kids or something.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: And did it have like wiener roll-ups in it?
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, my God.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe.
• 21:09
  The thing I remember the most were little English muffin pizzas
• 21:14
  or something like that.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: I remember my brother and I making those over and over.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think it also had these like clown cupcakes.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: That also sounds familiar.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe like cat.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, so funny.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: Every year we do a cookbook swap.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a super fun event.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: And people come and bring books that they no longer want or use.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: And we kind of sort them loosely in this huge room.
• 21:40
  And then we say go and everybody like runs in and however many
• 21:46
  books you bought or brought,
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: you get to roughly take the same amount out,
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: but you don't have to.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: But it's been fascinating, the books that people bring.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean,
• 21:56
  there's like a New York Times 1973 edition that has this recipe
• 22:02
  in it that's only
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: in that book that's for a lamb ragu.
• 22:05
  And every year I see that book come by and I like pick the
• 22:10
  woman who's probably like 20,
• 22:11
  24.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I like press this book into her hands.
• 22:15
  And I'm like,
• 22:16
  you need to have this book and you need to make the recipe on
• 22:18
  page 121.
• 22:20
  It's like three times it's happened and then they'll email me
• 22:23
  and they're like,
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: I would have never found that recipe without you.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's such a great fun event.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that sounds wonderful.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: I love that idea.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it is really fun.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: And we get a lot of like boxes of people's recipe cards.
• 22:36
  that were like someone's grandma's and my radio partner and I
• 22:40
  always sort of move
• 22:41
  that stuff to the side and then we keep it for a year and like
• 22:44
  go through it and
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: look at it and then we bring it back the next year.
• 22:47
  We've been doing this for like 10 years so it's been so fun to
• 22:51
  see what like really
• 22:52
  are in people's collections and what they get rid of and I mean
• 22:56
  how many peanut
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: butter blossom recipes there are in the world.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know what?
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: The world needs more peanut butter blossoms.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: Delicious.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, always delicious and always tasty.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it has been super fun to chat with you.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: I want people to follow your sub stack.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: It is the Cookbookery Collective Cookbook Newsletter.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: And we are with Jenna Helwig.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just really appreciative for your time today.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: Congratulations on your 25th anniversary with Real Simple.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's fun, too.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's been a real pleasure to talk to you.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, absolutely.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Jenna.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: Bye-bye.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: Bye.