Latest / eCommerce Podcast / Why Purpose Over Profit Actually Builds Sustainable Businesses | George Bryant

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Why Purpose Over Profit Actually Builds Sustainable Businesses | George Bryant · eCommerce Podcast

0:04
Well, hello and welcome to the eCommerce Podcast with
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me, your host, Matt Edmundson.
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Uh, you know what, been in eCommerce for a little while, since 2002.
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And these days I get to partner with amazing e-com brands to
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help them grow, scale and exit.
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Uh, and if you'd like to know more about that, head over to the podcast
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website, ecommerce-podcast.net.
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You'll find out all about me, all about this show.
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And all about our amazing guests, just like George.
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George.
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Man, I've been looking forward to this.
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Uh, I just, I love our conversations.
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I'm not gonna lie, I always sort of go away feeling a lot happier about
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my life, uh, after we've chatted.
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So it's great to have you on the show, man.
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My friend, it's an honor.
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And I feel like you're an og.
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Og like 2002 in, in e-comm.
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Like I'm like 2008, 2009, and I'm always the old guy and I'm
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like, I hate to say it, but
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Yeah, I'm older.
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you got year older.
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A year older.
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You've been in the game for a minute.
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Yeah, I've, I've been around, uh, depending on the, on the mood that I'm in.
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Sometimes I'll use the phrase eCommerce dinosaur, just 'cause
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Yeah,
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quite cool.
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I mean like in true, in true reflection though, like the level of cycles that
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you've seen and the level of cycles you've seen repeat themselves from
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2002, where everybody thinks it's always innovation, but it's like
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reinvention back to what it was.
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yeah,
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The wisdom too.
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That's why you have all the gray hairs in your beard.
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Right?
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Head is from stress.
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Beard is from wisdom.
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Uh, well I'll go with that.
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'cause I've not got really that many gray hairs on my head yet.
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They just seem to sort of be beard only.
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So,
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that's why I shaved my head because if I did, I have assuming
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I would have a whole lot more.
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yeah, you've got the opposite problem.
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Is
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And then I have like one gray patch right here where I'm like,
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look, I got, I got, I got my first wisdom stripe coming in at 41.
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Oh, brilliant.
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Well, there's not that, I mean, I'm, I'm in my early fifties now, so
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there's not that many years between us,
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Yeah.
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yeah, it's funny.
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Someone said to me the other day a, a great phrase that I heard.
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nothing exists in a vacuum, right?
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Everything, everything in effect is just history repeating itself.
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And, um, I, I'm always intrigued.
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I don't know you've seen the same thing, George, but I'm always intrigued by.
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Those in e-com always looking for something new.
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You know, like the latest silver bullet actually e-comm for me is
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just doing old school marketing principles really, really well.
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Mm-hmm.
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Mm-hmm.
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haven't changed.
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Just the, the way we communicate it maybe has.
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I couldn't agree more, and this is the hardest part.
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People lose because they chase the dopamine, because success in
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e-comm is simple because it can be scheduled, but it's boring.
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So people get really distracted with that dopamine or that shiny thing,
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and they always end up right back.
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To where they belonged in the first place.
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Like that's the thing that I've seen the most.
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It's like I even, I even joke with people, like I have this model I'll draw for
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them is like, what scaling looks like?
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And it's a Christmas tree, right?
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I'm like, 'cause even if you think about it, any e-comm people listening to
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this in the very beginning, Parkinson's law dictates that we can only focus
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on what actually moves the needle.
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Because if not, we're gonna go outta business, right?
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We're gonna let our investors down.
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We're not gonna sell through inventory.
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So like the trunk of the tree is like, okay, who do I serve?
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How do I serve them?
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What problem do I solve and what do I sell them?
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Right?
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And then we live in that bucket so frequently until something works, right?
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But like if an Instagram post doesn't work, you're like, gotta let it go.
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Gotta do another one, right?
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If that campaign didn't work, gotta let it go.
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Gotta do another one.
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But then we get to the point where we get some space and then we try to go
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wide and we're like, oh, that's working.
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So let's go do all these other things.
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And they build out like that first rung of the Christmas tree.
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And this happens at every single business and at revenue levels too.
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Like typically a hundred K, 500 K, a million, two and a half, five, 10.
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It's pretty predictable.
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So then they'll build out the base and then eventually they'll hit this
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ceiling and they'll stagnate and they're like, oh my God, what's happening?
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And they'll be like, what more do I add?
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And I always joke with them.
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I'm like, when was the last time you saw a rectangle Christmas tree?
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Yep.
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And they're like.
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Oh, and I was like, no, no, because what happens is you got so distracted
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with shiny bullets and all of it, you actually stopped doing the things
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that worked in the first place.
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So you have to trim back to the trunk.
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Let go of what didn't work, keep what did work, but protect
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that core of what's there.
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And, and that to your point, is the thing that I've seen more than
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anything, even with email, right?
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Like, do you remember a couple of years ago, everyone's
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like, email marketing's dead.
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I'm like, no, it's not
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Yeah.
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just like, it wasn't when it was Yahoo or MSN and it's like still here.
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And it's like, oh, but AI and blank.
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And instead of it being this like end world where I protect the foundation.
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And I'm willing to try something on top of it.
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As long as it doesn't sacrifice, to your point, my ability to
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execute the foundational strategies that work, then I'll do it.
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But it became this or world, and I think that's the place that I
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see people getting stuck the most.
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It's like organic or paid.
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I'm like actually paid requires organic to be successful in the long game.
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Right?
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And so I think that's how I see it.
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That's such, such wisdom.
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Uh, George, why I'm just aware of, we're, we're chatting away already.
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Just introduce yourself a little bit to the guests so they,
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they know who you're talking.
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I know who I'm talking to, but maybe not everyone else does.
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So just give us a little bit about yourself.
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You know, I, I feel called in this moment.
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I don't have business cards, but I have a poker chip in my pocket.
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It's pink 'cause my favorite color's pink.
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And it says your most valuable liability is what's on my actual business card.
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I just label myself your most valuable liability.
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'cause at this point I.
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is such a great phrase.
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I think I've done so much.
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In such a short or compressed amount of time.
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But you know, I, I tell everybody that like, I'm a dad first.
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I'm an incredible partner and friend, but like, what I have a passion for is
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helping entrepreneurs who actually care about their customers and their results
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scale their business to change the world.
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And I've been blessed to help scale hundreds of companies to
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7, 8, 9, and two to a billion.
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And some of them people know Vital Proteins.
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I helped and on it, I've helped 20 authors become New York Times bestsellers
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and God made me gifted to be the oz behind everybody else's curtain.
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That's where he put my ego 'cause I was in front of it too.
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I, I also have this dirty little secret.
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I was a New York Times bestselling cookbook author, and I had a number
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one app in the world and I had a million social media followers.
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And then.
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I had a godly experience and he called me back to integrity.
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So I deleted all the followers, gave away the company, changed
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my phone number, and disappeared.
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So like I, I've kind of walked in this from physical
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products to digital products.
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And what I focus on so heavily is relationships, customer journey,
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and the mindset required to have the results that we desire, right?
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And one of the things that I say to people is like, you don't have the
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business you want because you haven't become the person to run it yet.
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Right.
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Like you can't scale your business till you scale yourself first.
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And I think people look at mindset and they think it's this like
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woowoo thing or something I don't need to joke with or need to do.
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But I always look at it for sports fans too.
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Like whether you have like American or UK listeners, like I can take
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a high school rugby player and I can put him on a professional
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rugby field with the playbook.
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He'll have the same plays that other team has, but he can't
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execute them at the same level.
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Eventually it can become it.
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And when I think about entrepreneurs is we try to get all these playbooks,
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but we never ask ourselves like how do we become the player to execute that
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playbook at the level where it matters?
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And so like I just have a soft spot in my heart for helping people do that.
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And I've accidentally helped scale a couple hundred companies
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and it turns out customer journey is a really important topic that
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makes a big difference for people.
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Yeah, no doubt.
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I, I love this phrase.
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I've accidentally helped people scale.
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you've definitely helped companies scale, uh, to, to, to larger figures than me.
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but it's, I I'm intrigued.
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Uh, your journey is quite unique, right?
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Uh, and, and the path that you've been on that the experiences that you've
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had and with what you do now, and just the joy I think you have in life.
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You know, the real sort of passion for.
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Just for being alive and being around people is, is contagious in many ways.
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What do you see the biggest mistake?
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Um, if there was, you know, like one thing that you see every entrepreneur
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or young and aspiring entrepreneur make when they're building or trying to
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build their empires, what would it be?
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Chasing profit instead of purpose.
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Okay.
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Uh, do you wanna dig into that?
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I, I would love to dig into that.
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Um, it's a really, really interesting topic because I. What I see is most
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people falling into this trap of cha chasing success instead of significance.
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And if you look at the world, what you'll find is, you know, entrepreneurs, like
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I always joke with people, I was like, you can always tell an entrepreneur
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because they'll have an exit and then 30 days later you'll read a news article
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about them launching another company.
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Launching another company, right?
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Like, and one of the things that I say to people is that.
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We spend our life convincing ourselves that we're building this business because
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we want more time, money, or freedom.
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But when in actuality the business is distraction and we're avoiding
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the one relationship we're guaranteed to spend the rest of our life
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with, which is ourself, right?
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Like our kids don't want us working, they want us home, right?
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And I'm like, oh, I'm doing it for my family, my eight year old's like,
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dad, I don't care about the business.
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Like, can we go to the skate park?
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Right?
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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And so there's this semblance of understanding that like.
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Success in itself.
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I think the metrics that people chase set them up to lose by playing the short game.
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They think that success is a hockey stick.
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They think that it's this, like the one funnel that's gonna work
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or this product's gonna pop.
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But in actuality, you, you kind of make the game harder on yourself because
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you don't get to learn the lessons that allow you to keep, continue to grow,
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scale, build the team to pass those on.
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And you know, for you and I, both men of faith, one of the prayers that I, or
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phrases I wrote down on my wall for years is I oftentimes prayed to God for things.
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I didn't have the character and scars to maintain.
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Yeah.
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And even from my own e-commerce businesses, there were ones where
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like we hit a million easily and then we didn't grow past that point.
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We started to sabotage into it because we didn't have the character
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and the experience and the wisdom
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or even the know-how to call somebody who did to bring them in.
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And so when you think about success, you'll find that people will hit success.
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The cost of everything.
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They won't build a business to support their life.
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They'll sacrifice their life to build a business, and then they'll look back and
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realize they don't get that life back.
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And then a few of them get inspired at whatever age.
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Typically, it's some catalystic moment of like midlife crisis,
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trauma, death, or just emptiness.
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And you're like, oh, I need to go do something with this.
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And then significance follows.
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But here's the craziest part.
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When you prioritize significance.
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Success always follows significance.
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And so it's just prioritizing the right things.
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And even when I think about building a company or building a mission, like it's
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totally fine to be driven by revenue.
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Revenue is the vehicle that allows you to spread that mission and that vision.
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But also when you think about the most successful companies in the
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world, they're not built that way because people feel transacted with.
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They're built that way because people feel transformed by them.
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Like Nike's billboard doesn't say Just do it.
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Only if you wear our running shoes,
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just do it.
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Only if you run a five minute mile.
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Right?
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Like, they're like, just do it.
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Right.
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We'll leave the sweatshop conversation out of this.
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But like, you know, morals and ethics aside.
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Yeah.
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Just like all of us have had experiences where we've been in companies or
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we've been a part of something.
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Like if we think about car dealerships, at least in the us
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everyone's like, God, I hate going.
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They like play games with me.
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They make me feel like crap, they transact with me.
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They're trying to get more money outta me.
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We forget that.
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Like when we look at success, most of the success that people prioritize as revenue.
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Revenue is a byproduct of a successful relationship.
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A relationship is a byproduct of you actually helping somebody get results.
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And then when you help somebody get results, you build a relationship.
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When you build a relationship, they make referrals and also pay you revenue.
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And so I find that like even looking at it the right way is like.
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There's nothing wrong with wanting to sell a product or having a clothing brand, or
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even selling a supplement and not like thinking you're gonna go be Mother Teresa,
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but ensuring that the thing that you're making is tied to a bigger purpose or
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tied to a bigger mission where maybe the mission is we're gonna sell this product
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so that we can support our employees, or we can give them time, money,
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freedom, or location freedom, right?
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Like there has to be a deeper meaning.
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And, and this is why I love Mike Michalowicz as an author.
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He also has this book called All In, which is, is really how
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to build an incredible team.
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One of the things that he highlights out of it is the shared vision, right?
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Like there's this vision piece of like, even if you're gonna build and
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scale an e-commerce company, like you need to have some semblance of
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idea of where you're shooting for.
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And so I think.
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The biggest way that I would describe and summarize that, you know, mini
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TED talk that I gave, is that when you end up chasing success instead of
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significance, you end up measuring in days instead of decades, and it inhibits
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your ability to grow because you're too reactive to what's happening in
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the day to day, and you don't have a picture of what's happening in the macro.
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Yeah.
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That's so powerful.
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I've got, there's so much there.
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George, I, I'm kind of curious, is this a, do you think this
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is a bit of an age thing?
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Because I, as you're talking about significance and success, I remember
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someone said to me, a very wise chap once said to me, in your,
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the first 40, first 40 years of your life, it's all about success.
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You hit 40 and it's all about significance.
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And it's like there's this shift that happens as you get older.
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And I, I kind of listened to that and I, as I've got older and, you know,
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as my kids have got older and I've got more embedded into my marriage,
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I think my definition of success is very, very different to what it was
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when I was in my early twenties.
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You know, very, very different.
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And so I'm listening to you talk and going, don't think it's as simple as
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it's just an age thing, but I think is this thing with age that makes you see
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things differently, rightly or wrongly.
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I agree, but I don't know if I would submit that it's an age thing.
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I'd think I would submit.
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It's more of a values based perspective,
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Yeah.
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I.
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right?
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Because like I have, I have one of my clients right now who's 26 years
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old, like I'm 41, and he runs circles around me with significance and impact.
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Like he's like wanting to save the world and do this, and I was like.
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And how'd you go from drug dealer to this?
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And you know, it's like a funny story that we tell, but I think what it really
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boils down to is I think age would be a really easy metric to potentially look at.
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But what I really think is underneath it is self-identity and values, right?
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Like knowing oneself and like what genuinely lights you up and brings you.
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Joy in the world, but then also what are those things that you value?
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And I know for me, I didn't realize how much I valued time until the
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business that I had built and my son came along, cost me 160 flights a year
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and missing three years of his life.
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Well, now I takes an act of Congress to get me on an airplane outta Montana.
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And they're like, what are you doing?
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I'm like, I'll do it remotely.
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I'll do it remotely.
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And I'm like, he's laying eight feet away from me right now.
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And they're like, oh, I heard him in the background.
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I'm like, great, leave it in.
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Like it's, it's, we're we're a combo package.
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Right.
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But I think that there was this perspective shift and there was a season
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before him where like, I didn't value time
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because I thought I had an unlimited amount of it.
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And that's even crazier because I was an active duty marine for 13 years in
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my life, like two combat deployments.
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And.
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I thought that shifted my perspective of like, oh, I've seen death and I've been
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to places I shouldn't have come back from.
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Like I really value time.
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Nope.
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I was just a right matter of time before I was back to old habits,
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and it took me having a son.
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To really, really recognize what I value.
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So I think, I think what it boils down to for me is that like willingness to
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look in the mirror and, and be really radically honest with ourselves.
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'cause I also have friends that truthfully, they're like, my
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life is to be an entrepreneur.
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I don't want kids, I don't want blank.
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Like I just love being in the grind.
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And I'm like, well, I love you for sat.
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I will support you.
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I'll make you dinner.
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Right?
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But like, I'm not gonna come work on the computer with you.
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But I think it really boils down to, to being radically honest with oneself
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about what's important to you, what brings you joy, what lights you up.
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And also not shaming yourself for having those beliefs.
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And then number two is really like, what is it that you value?
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Because I go back now and I look at like the mentors I've
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had in my life, and I'm like.
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Man, if I just listened to them 10 years ago and I didn't fight so hard, and I
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was like, but then my journey is the guy who will self-knowledge that I won't
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learn unless I fall on my own face.
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Yeah.
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It's never big enough for me to shift, and so I just kind of had to
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fall in love with I'm the God that's gonna smack my face into the wall and
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hopefully pass that wisdom down to somebody else.
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But I think, I think it really just boils down to the things that we value in the
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world and, and our willingness to explore those things with curiosity instead
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of being so either dogmatic or locked into how we think we'd view the world.
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well, I, I'm loving this conversation, uh, 'cause we'd not planned it.
17:54
And two, I, i, I very fortuitous timing one, one might argue,
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um, I wrote quite a lengthy uh.
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Article about purpose and values on Friday,
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Mm.
18:07
one of the things that came out in the research, um, and
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maybe we can talk about this,
18:12
Mm-hmm.
18:13
of consumers now, so one in two consumers actively, not
18:18
passively, but actively distrust.
18:21
Corporations purpose claims, right.
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So I talk about, um, Wells Fargo had the purpose statement about helping customers
18:29
succeed financially while simultaneously opening three and a half fraudulent,
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uh, three and a half million fraudulent accounts in their customers' names.
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Um, Boeing claimed to prioritize innovation and
18:40
safety while cutting corners.
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Uh, and, you know, the, the, the inevitable, uh, happens.
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Um, there, there's, there's a, there's a. Littering of companies which have
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had these sort of purpose driven ideals because we thought that's what we needed.
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'cause that's what Patagonia did in Tom's shoes, right?
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Um, but it's got to the stage now.
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One in two just actively distrust it.
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I think that's quite, that's quite telling isn't it?
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A thousand percent.
19:12
A thousand percent.
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I also think it's quite exciting 'cause I'll never not have a job,
19:22
Yeah.
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This, the market's getting bigger.
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just to be radically honest, like.
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I, I was genuinely in a meeting the other day with a private client who,
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who builds custom homes and, you know, they went from 2 million to 8 million.
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And, and like one of the first things I said to 'em was like, values are not words
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that you paste on as wallpaper values are words for people to describe how you are
19:45
being when you're no longer in the room.
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And he's like, oh.
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And I was like, that's what you've embodied, which is why
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you've scaled the company, right?
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Like, it's no different than a parent.
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Yep.
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Like, or a colleague or a business partner.
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It's like, and, and I hate to say this, but like the amount of
20:04
personal trainers I've hired, I was a hundred pounds overweight.
20:08
If they were 300 pounds overweight, telling me that I needed to
20:11
eat different and move my body, I would've had a hard time
20:14
like justifying like,
20:16
Yeah.
20:16
Yep.
20:17
and, and not even because it's bad and wrong if the position is like.
20:21
Hey, I live this way, so go do it.
20:23
But if they were like, Hey, I don't live this way.
20:25
I'm just telling you I want you to avoid the pain, I would've listened differently.
20:28
Right?
20:28
There's this embodiment piece to where even, you know, one of the
20:31
core things I do with my clients, especially like physical products,
20:35
brands, when we're helping them scale, is building a movement,
20:38
which is truthfully an ethical cult.
20:40
It's a shared belief system.
20:43
Of like, you know, what's the impact we wanna make?
20:45
Like what do we stand for?
20:46
What is our belief system?
20:47
Right?
20:47
Like even at Vital Proteins, it, it wasn't people that wanted to buy collagen.
20:51
'cause nobody wants to eat the hide of a cow.
20:54
That's not like, oh, let me wake up and put cow hide in my coffee cup.
20:58
Right?
20:58
Like, that's not what we're marketing.
20:59
It's like they want to have healthier hair, skin and nails.
21:03
Right.
21:03
Or like even at on, at the supplement company.
21:05
Yeah, there were hundreds of products and what, but what everybody
21:08
wanted was to be the person who was totally optimized as a human.
21:12
Or even in my world, you know, when you go to my website, which by the
21:15
way, it's the Pinkest website you'll ever see 'cause it's my favorite color.
21:19
Yeah, I love the color.
21:20
Um, but it says, relationships beat algorithms because I only want you
21:24
in my world if you genuinely believe that your relationships with people
21:27
are more valuable than profit.
21:29
If you don't like it.
21:31
I'll love you out the door and there's a spot for you at the dinner table, but
21:34
you come in acting like a douche and I'm gonna kick you back out the door.
21:38
Right?
21:38
Like, not tolerated here.
21:40
And I think that that's the part that a lot of people miss is they
21:43
think that values or purpose or these words that we throw up on a wall and
21:48
they're like, oh, give these to hr, let's, you know, boom, boom, boom.
21:51
And you know, even with companies that we have, we're we're like, your
21:56
values are literally the structure.
21:59
It's like your human body and then the people that you put in and are
22:02
the blood that pumps through your body to be able to run your business.
22:06
And we're like, you hire and fire based on values
22:10
and then those values turn into beliefs that are operating
22:13
agreements for everybody to do, and then you train on skills.
22:17
And they're like, huh?
22:18
And I was like, yeah, you've been hiring on skills and wondering
22:21
why there's this like broken osmosis throughout the the company.
22:24
But you know, I think that's a benefit of me being a Marine for 13 years was like.
22:29
We had such a small group of Marines, but everybody worked so
22:33
cohesively together because they didn't train us how to be Marines.
22:37
They trained us how to think and feel the same way.
22:40
So then no matter what situation that we went into, there was
22:43
like this embodied example.
22:45
And so I, I genuinely look at that and I'm like, yep.
22:48
And I wish the number was higher, because I think that that's
22:51
where the world truly changes.
22:52
If there's enough of us that vote with our dollars and our attention.
22:57
We utilize these things that we see of like, yeah, we're not supporting you.
23:00
We don't believe in this anymore.
23:02
We're gonna hold you to a different standard.
23:04
I think it actually starts to change the conversation because
23:06
when you got into e-comm, I miss how business was done in 2002.
23:11
Like I miss pre-internet where like you had to call somebody and have to trust
23:14
them and like reputation mattered, right?
23:17
And you weren't like buying Google reviews or hiring Craigslist ads
23:21
for 80 people to go review your product and lie to them, or you know,
23:24
white labeling products everywhere.
23:25
There was like this.
23:27
Space for innovation and creativity, but underneath it, this massive
23:31
invitation for connection, it was real,
23:33
right?
23:33
Like people were still connected and.
23:36
I look at those things and just like I look at it for, you know, anybody
23:40
listening to this who wonders why business is hard in 2025 right now,
23:43
because for the same way that they don't trust corporations, they also
23:48
don't trust anybody that they don't have a prior relationship with.
23:52
We used to blindly buy products 'cause we'd see a Facebook ad
23:55
like, oh, here's a hot sauce.
23:56
I've never tried it before.
23:58
Now it's right past our filter for our unconscious mind, because if we don't
24:02
have established rapport or some semblance of endowment, we're so conditioned after
24:08
COVID and all the ads and the transactions and the false influencer marketing to
24:12
pass it by like it never even existed.
24:15
The amount of evidence or touch points it takes to get into your ecosystem before
24:20
ever buying has drastically increased.
24:24
And so it's just this really interesting thing that I, I'm like, I'm stoked
24:28
that you wrote a, a blog post or an article on it as well, because I think
24:31
it's the things that we have to think about as founders, as entrepreneurs,
24:35
as e-commerce owners, right?
24:38
And trust what I love about it so much.
24:41
It's the one thing that can't be faked.
24:44
It's real.
24:45
And like when people are like, well, I'm gonna go be authentic of like,
24:48
newsflash, you're already being authentic whether you're pretending to or not.
24:52
Right?
24:52
So there is no like, let me be authentic.
24:55
Yeah, that's so true.
24:58
And so I, I look at, I look at that and I look at companies where like
25:01
the ones that always win for us are the ones that are transparent.
25:04
Like if we have a supply issue.
25:06
We just open up and tell people we don't hide behind it.
25:08
We don't hide behind optics.
25:10
This isn't some PR campaign.
25:12
It's like we're in this with you and I, I think what people forget
25:16
when it comes to companies is that companies are two-way relationships.
25:21
They're not a one-way dictatorship because without your customers, the
25:24
bloodline of your business doesn't exist.
25:26
But what happens is, another mistake that I see people make is that they
25:30
turn off that pipeline and expect it to be their way or the highway.
25:34
But truthfully, the success of your business boils down to the feedback loop
25:38
that you're getting with your customers
25:40
and the journey that you're taking them on with you, which
25:42
so much is like being a parent.
25:45
We have a vision.
25:45
Both of our daughters are the same age, right?
25:47
But we have a vision for what we want their life to look like and and
25:50
how we want them to view the world.
25:52
Well, news flashes, dads, we don't get our way, but we just create bumpers and
25:56
we catch them with a safety net in the process, and then they give us feedback.
25:59
They push back, they lean in harder.
26:02
It's the same with our customers.
26:04
It's the same with our physical products companies.
26:06
It's the same with our digital products companies, is that there's this
26:09
two-way relationship, but everybody's fallen into the circumstance of
26:13
thinking it's a one-way dictatorship
26:16
and then that erodes trust as well.
26:18
And it's, it's just an important way, in my opinion to like think about it.
26:22
Like just even seeing it for what it is.
26:24
And it's like if you go into a brick and mortar store.
26:28
You'd never ignore somebody walking through the door to window
26:32
shop, but yet when you take your business online, you're like, they
26:35
haven't given me their credit card.
26:36
How dare I respond to their comment?
26:38
And I was like, well, let me know how that works if you were in person, right?
26:41
Or you know, you walk into a restaurant and the hostess just stonewalls.
26:46
You would ignore you.
26:47
And you're like talking and talking.
26:48
And I was like, are you gonna get a table there?
26:51
And they're like, no.
26:52
And I'm like, well, great.
26:53
Kind of same thing, but there's all these examples of like to your
26:56
previous point, successful marketing and business strategies that have
27:01
always stood the test of time.
27:04
And yet, for right now, it tends to be everybody wants the shiny bullet.
27:08
They want the shortcut, but they don't realize the long term cost.
27:12
Those are the things that are breaking the trust with corporations and companies.
27:16
But the only thing that's maintaining it is going back to what we said at
27:19
the beginning, which is the tried and true focus on people, build
27:23
relationships, have conversations, and be willing to play the long game.
27:27
I.
27:28
Yeah, I totally agree.
27:29
I think it's, um, it's an interesting one, isn't it?
27:33
Because I think one of the things that I have that Amazon doesn't
27:38
have, because this is a question I get asked a lot, George, right?
27:41
Is like, do I compete against Amazon?
27:44
Um, I. The answer in some respects comes down to pretty much what you've just said.
27:49
The one thing Amazon doesn't have is me,
27:51
Yep.
27:52
right?
27:53
They have, I have a relationship with Amazon, which is
27:56
very transactional, right?
27:58
They are a commodity trader and it is very transactional.
28:01
And at the moment I'm happy to use them because it's convenient.
28:05
It's, you know, it does what it says on the tin, but I have no loyalty to Amazon.
28:10
If someone came along tomorrow, um, and did it better, or if.
28:15
Without getting too political, Jeff Bezos decides to become the leading
28:20
spokesman for the liberal party, the opposite of Musk, for example.
28:25
We've seen what's happened to Tesla
28:26
Yep.
28:27
there, and you just kind of go, well, there's no loyalty there as such, there
28:32
is, but it, I, I, I'm not that bothered.
28:36
Whereas, um, in my hand I have, uh, a pen from Tom's studio.
28:42
I, I'm, I'm much more loyal to Tom and Tom's not Amazon, right?
28:46
He, and this is the thing that we, I think in eCommerce, it's hard to try and
28:51
get across to people that actually what drives you, what light to your language,
28:56
what likes you, what, what your values are, what you actually do in the business,
28:59
and the difference that you make.
29:02
Well, that's what.
29:04
If you find a tribe of people that connect with that and form a relationship with
29:07
them, well that's how, that's how you win,
29:09
Mm-hmm.
29:10
you do business in the long run.
29:12
And, um, I, I always remember the first major contract I
29:15
ever got was on a handshake.
29:17
I never had a contract with anybody.
29:18
It was just done on a handshake.
29:19
You do that, I'll do that.
29:20
Brilliant.
29:21
We never best contracts I ever had were done on a handshake.
29:24
I still do 'em that way 15 years later, it's the only way I do 'em.
29:29
It says a lot, doesn't
29:30
Mm-hmm.
29:32
It says a lot, you know, fill out this, do you agree to these 20,000
29:36
pages of terms and conditions, which screw you up every, which way you can.
29:40
Mm-hmm.
29:41
Okay.
29:42
I have to, I suppose, but it's, it's an interesting one, isn't it?
29:45
I, I, long for the day when learn the value of a handshake again in a, in a
29:52
digital sort of format and how that works.
29:54
You know, I'll be honest, I've lost clients because of this, and I'll
29:58
look at them and I'll be like, Hey, I just wanna be really honest with you.
30:01
You need to be comfortable with me telling you I love you, or
30:04
you won't work well as my client.
30:06
And after time they're like, you know, I can't do this anymore.
30:08
I'm like, it's okay.
30:09
I still love you.
30:11
Like, there's this thing of like what you value and, and, and what you care
30:14
about to, to, like, that's the thing that I feel like is missing in the world.
30:18
It's like I still live in Montana and my favorite thing is like,
30:20
I genuinely brought sugar over to my friend's house yesterday
30:23
'cause they needed to borrow sugar.
30:26
Right.
30:26
And then I'll call him in a week and I'm like, Hey, I'm on a firewood.
30:29
And he's like, I got you.
30:30
I'll bring some over.
30:31
Right?
30:31
And then he is like, Hey, can you watch the chickens this week?
30:33
It's like going back in humanity.
30:35
But there's this like comradery and community that
30:38
I, I, I think we all forget.
30:40
We can bring in into your point.
30:42
Your USP is literally the present inside of the box where
30:47
your product and service is.
30:49
Just the wrapping paper.
30:51
Because the only thing that makes you different is you and
30:53
I even joke with people too.
30:54
I'm like, how many of us have been to an incredible restaurant
30:57
food wise, but had subpar service?
31:00
And I'm like, do you recommend it?
31:01
And they're like, no.
31:02
I'm like, how many of us have been to a restaurant with incredible
31:04
service and subpar food and yet we recommend it to everybody?
31:08
Yep.
31:09
And they're like.
31:11
Oh.
31:11
And I'm like, that's the difference to your point,
31:15
right?
31:15
And I've even had people like, well, I'm like, well I sell, you know, dog shoes.
31:19
And I'm like, well great.
31:20
How are you gonna deliver them?
31:22
How are you gonna speak about them?
31:23
How are you gonna do blank?
31:24
Like I even have a friend who has a CBD gummy company and she's like, no, no, no.
31:28
We make the best CBD gummies for wine moms.
31:32
And I was like, oh, that's really, really good.
31:34
And she like makes coffee mugs that says like.
31:37
Calm your boobs and like take a chill blank.
31:40
And she calls her customers her baby grandmas because they're not old enough
31:46
to have gra to have grandkids yet.
31:48
But she's like, but your baby grandmas 'cause we're working towards
31:50
your coffee mug slippers and CBD.
31:52
And I'm like, you are so good at this.
31:54
It blows my mind.
31:54
And they love it.
31:57
They love it.
31:59
And I'm like, and it's just a CBD gummy.
32:01
And yeah, do they have, you know, good ingredients of course,
32:04
but it's the same as 38 other.
32:07
Yeah.
32:07
Brands in the market, but they create this identity and a relationship with
32:11
it to, to your point, I think that that's the, the biggest secret sauce
32:15
is that, you know, they even did a study on this, and I'd have to find it
32:19
again, but the, the number was misquoted on TikTok when it went viral, but
32:23
they actually found that authenticity resonates like 480 times deeper in a
32:28
human being than the frequency of love.
32:32
That's interesting.
32:33
Authenticity, meaning I'm willing to be myself.
32:36
I'm willing to say how I feel.
32:38
I'm willing to share my values.
32:40
And it also happens to be, the whole point of this conversation is like when
32:44
you don't trust somebody, it's 'cause you can tell they're being inauthentic.
32:48
When you don't have a deep relationship or you're USP, it's typically because
32:52
there's a part of you that that's missing.
32:54
Like I have no qualms joking with people, even in business.
32:57
Like I'll go start a keynote with like.
32:59
Everybody's lying to you.
32:59
You're not one funnel away.
33:01
And everyone's like, and I was like, I know Russell Love Russell.
33:04
I still disagree,
33:06
Yep.
33:07
right?
33:07
Where I'm like, and I'll say this and I'll say this, and I'll say things
33:10
like, would you be okay if your grandmother went through your funnel?
33:13
And they're like, no.
33:14
I'm like, then why can mine?
33:16
Yep.
33:17
I was like, oh, it's okay to treat mine like crap.
33:19
But if I did the, and they're like, oh.
33:21
And I'm like, I'll say those things, but they're real for me because that's
33:24
how I see business in eCommerce.
33:25
But there's, to your point, so many people that wanna like live in almost
33:30
the fringe of like not saying anything.
33:33
But then they also turn off their superpower just like, who are you?
33:36
And I think authenticity's one of the easiest ways.
33:39
But to be authentic, you also have to know what you value.
33:42
You do, and you have to know, I think you do, you have to
33:44
know who you are in many ways.
33:45
And, and a lot of people who say, I'm just being authentic.
33:48
I'm like, actually, I think you're just being confused.
33:51
do, Do you know what I mean?
33:52
In, in terms of what they're saying?
33:54
Because I, I, I, this isn't, I don't think that's authentic at all, but,
33:57
Mm-hmm.
33:58
um, I, I, I, I agree.
34:00
I think.
34:01
And again, it's not an age thing.
34:04
Uh, I appreciate that, George, but as I become older, I become more aware of this.
34:08
Mm-hmm.
34:09
know what I mean?
34:09
And the, and the stuff that I would say to myself when I was a 20, 30-year-old
34:13
guy, I kind of look at now and go, what?
34:16
You know, fortunately I had some good mentors around me, like you who,
34:21
valued, you know, a handshake and you know, the let your yes BS and
34:25
your no be no was drilled into me.
34:28
Very on in my early twenties that actually what you say is more
34:31
important than anything else.
34:33
and if it costs you, what's the problem?
34:36
You do it anyway.
34:37
Right?
34:37
Because you, you learn from that in so many ways.
34:42
Um, it's, I remember, I remember years ago we had, um, we had
34:49
a bookkeeping company, right?
34:51
This was, sort of, uh.
34:55
Early naughties.
34:56
So just before, um, things went proper crazy with the web business,
35:02
so we had this bookkeeping company and an internet company and we
35:06
were doing a job interview, right?
35:08
And, um, I said to the guy that we were interviewing and I said,
35:11
listen, now you need to understand I have a certain value set.
35:15
Uh, and I. I have no issue whether you agree with me or whether you don't.
35:19
I'm not expecting you to have the same values as me in many ways,
35:22
but do expect you to uphold them.
35:26
Mm.
35:26
And so I was like, one of the things that we have to is we just don't lie.
35:33
own up, fess up.
35:36
We, we fix the problem, right?
35:39
Uh, when we're not into the blame game, we're just like, this is a problem.
35:42
This is how I'm gonna fix it.
35:44
'cause people I think, respond really well to that, especially
35:46
when you word it in the right way.
35:48
So he said to me, um, and I quote George, he said to me, that's no problem at all.
35:54
No problem if you get someone on the phone and you don't want to lie to them.
35:58
I totally get it.
35:59
So if you pass the phone to me, I'll lie to them on your behalf.
36:05
I was like, I was like, I think this interview's over, isn't it really?
36:12
Wow.
36:14
Wow.
36:16
Wow.
36:17
I don't, I, wow, I didn't expect that.
36:19
I didn't expect that at all.
36:22
Yeah.
36:22
And I, I love, I love the way that, that you, that you describe that too,
36:28
like I think all too often, I actually did a podcast on this, on my show the
36:32
other day, and I said, what we tolerate, we eventually embrace, and what we
36:38
evenly embrace becomes who we are.
36:41
I think the craziest thing about this is no matter what age you are or
36:44
where you are and experience, I think even with situations like that, like
36:48
human beings are born with two fears, loud noises, and the fear of falling,
36:52
everything else is a trained behavior.
36:54
It's not like we wake up and we're like, how do I end up evil today?
36:57
How do I agree to sell my soul and lie to somebody on the phone?
37:00
How do I agree to take shortcuts?
37:02
It, it ends up becoming this byproduct of consistent exposure
37:08
to these things that we tolerate.
37:10
That eventually we end up embracing because of us not having the
37:15
willingness to say, uh, yet, no.
37:18
I hold that line and you know, boundaries are only as powerful as your ability
37:21
to enforce them but also protect them.
37:24
Like they're not like, oh, I plant a seed and it grows.
37:26
It's like, oh, I have to water this and till this and run through this.
37:29
And, you know, I even think about it in the, in the game of business.
37:32
Like I joke with people that I'm like, forever the non-viral
37:35
king, God made me non-viral.
37:37
Not joking.
37:38
I've been doing videos on the internet since 2008.
37:42
I went live every day for like two and a half years.
37:45
Meka, Periscope, Facebook, Instagram, you name it.
37:50
I was a food blogger.
37:51
I'm talking about entrepreneurship.
37:53
I'm talking about marketing, scaling your business, sharing everything.
37:56
I've had one video go viral my whole career, one.
38:01
I am one for about 65,000.
38:06
Like we have six terabytes of video footage.
38:08
Like I'm not joking one.
38:11
And it was the one video where I was radically authentic and I started
38:16
the live video and said, I do not wanna be live today, but I made a
38:19
commitment to go live every day and I've no idea what I'm gonna talk about.
38:22
And someone's like, well, why are you upset?
38:24
And I was like.
38:25
I've been struggling with eating disorders my whole life,
38:28
and I've never told anybody.
38:29
Well, I guess I just told you now.
38:31
And then it turned into this three and a half hour live stream
38:33
and 23 million people saw it.
38:36
And I was like, this of all, and he's like, you were authentic.
38:40
And I was like, I.
38:41
Really, but like, I just, I joke about it because it's, it's this, like,
38:46
there's all these expectations and even, 'cause I'm a marketer, right?
38:49
So open loops in my brain drive me nuts.
38:51
So tying it back to what you said at the beginning is like there's these
38:54
silver bullets that people want, there's these shortcuts that people want, and
38:58
really all they are are distractions from you putting in the rep that's going
39:02
to actually give you what you desire.
39:05
They're just delaying the inevitable to where, like I joke with people,
39:09
like the fork didn't make me fat.
39:11
I picked it up and ate the cake.
39:13
Right?
39:14
But I also can't expect abs if I don't go to the gym and I can't be upset
39:19
if I go for one day and I'm like, Hey Matt, I don't have a six pack again.
39:23
I quit.
39:24
Right?
39:24
There's this understanding of like, it's this active pursuit.
39:29
I think that that's the part where people miss is the other biggest
39:33
mistake that I see besides the two that I've mentioned is the toxic thinking
39:37
of thinking there's a finish line.
39:39
Like, oh, I've made it, or, oh, I've arrived.
39:42
And I was like, well, the moment you embody that, you've already started
39:46
deteriorating what you've achieved because it's harder to keep something than it
39:51
is to achieve it in the first place.
39:53
And then the moment you think you've arrived, you stop.
39:56
And it starts eroding backwards over and over.
39:58
And so it's like, oh, my clients, like my pipeline's doing great.
40:03
Like we're making great organic sales right now.
40:05
It's just gonna stay forever.
40:06
Or, my ads are working right now and I'm like, wait till you hit ad fatigue
40:09
or wait till the new platform pops up, or wait till election season and your
40:13
Facebook ads go up eight times in cost.
40:16
Right?
40:16
Like there's this.
40:18
Yep.
40:19
You know, like I always joke with people if like in the world of
40:21
business, especially e-comm companies, if there's not a check engine light
40:26
on your dashboard, I'd be petrified.
40:30
Because if I don't see a check engine light on my dashboard, I drive my car
40:34
into a wallet and I try to make one.
40:35
Because
40:36
Yep.
40:37
if there is not something being refined or quote unquote broken, then
40:41
we're just coasting and it's just a matter of time before the Titanic
40:44
ends up on the bottom of the lake.
40:46
Yeah.
40:48
Yeah.
40:48
It's so, it's so true.
40:50
Stagnant water always stinks, right?
40:52
And it's, it's that.
40:54
That's such a warm, way more eloquent way to say that.
40:57
Like with way less words.
40:59
Yeah, I, and I couldn't think of.
41:02
It's the same thing as, and I think if you, you're, you're right.
41:05
I mean, and the gym analogy's great, isn't it?
41:07
It the day you stop going to the gym is when it, it all starts going wrong.
41:12
And I I, I think you, on one hand, we've got this hustle culture, which
41:18
is, you've gotta put in the work, right?
41:20
And on the other hand, you've got emerging culture, which is
41:25
like, well, hang on a minute.
41:26
No, I, I still want time.
41:29
And I think, um.
41:31
Paul said it best, didn't he?
41:32
When he said, I know what it is to be rich.
41:34
I know what it is to be poor.
41:38
In both these situations, I figured out how to be content, right?
41:41
And I think there's this, there's a difference between being content and being
41:50
Uh, Do you know what I mean?
41:50
I, I, there's a difference between being grateful.
41:56
And not putting in the work tomorrow.
41:59
Like I'm grateful for my health, therefore I don't have to go to the gym.
42:02
I'm content with where I'm at in the gym.
42:03
Therefore I don't have to go in And I think, I think it's a wrong thing.
42:08
I think.
42:11
I think we do ours like you said.
42:13
I'm just echoing what you said here, George.
42:14
I think we do ourselves a disservice in many ways.
42:17
We do, we do.
42:18
Yeah.
42:18
There's this, it's the inversion of the other side, which is the, uh, I
42:23
have a friend who, he's actually from London, I believe Jamie Smart, wrote a
42:26
book called The Little Book of Clarity.
42:28
Right?
42:29
And it's really a book dedicated to toxic thinking, right?
42:31
How many times have we looked in the mirror and we're like, oh man.
42:36
You know, I'm gonna start my diet on Monday, or I'm gonna start it on
42:40
New Year's, or I'm gonna, you know, start this writing habit next week.
42:44
And I'm like, all that is, it's toxic thinking.
42:47
It's delaying the inevitable when the gift arrives and not putting it into practice.
42:51
And, and to your point, this is the other side of it, right?
42:54
Where there is no finish line and, and gratitude is an active state.
43:00
When I express gratitude, what I'm saying is I'm willing to keep
43:03
doing the work to keep this thing
43:06
not, I'm so grateful I have it, I'm willing to lose it again.
43:10
And it's this, I had an incredible friend on my podcast and he's like, I think
43:14
everybody needs to look at wellness and redefine it as active pursuit.
43:18
Yeah,
43:18
Because
43:19
the moment, and I even say this about integrity with men, when
43:22
I used to do men's coaching.
43:25
Men have this weird relationship with the word integrity because they think
43:29
they're in integrity everywhere.
43:30
But truthfully, in this moment, the only person I'm in integrity with is you.
43:35
Because if I ask my son where he wants me, he wants me tickling,
43:37
tickling him on the couch.
43:38
If I ask my partner where she wants me, she wants me in Canada visiting, right?
43:42
Like if I ask my best friend who's like over here for dinner, the only place
43:46
I'm in, integrity is the place I'm actively pouring my present attention.
43:50
Yeah.
43:51
Everything else is waiting for me to bring it back into integrity.
43:54
And it also frames to your point of like being content where I am, but also being
43:59
willing to pursue the ability to keep that or support that or to pour into it.
44:05
And, and the way that you described it, and I love how Paul says that,
44:08
it, it really applies everywhere it applies to our team, right?
44:11
Even when I joke with people about scaling your business, I
44:14
say the reason that, you know.
44:16
You can't scale your businesses 'cause everybody thinks it's relationship with
44:19
your customers, but it actually starts with the relationship with yourself.
44:23
And then that trickles down to the relationship with your team,
44:26
which then both of them trickle down to the relationship with your customers.
44:30
Right?
44:30
It's actually an inside out job, not an outside in job.
44:34
And that toxic thinking thing applies too.
44:36
It's like, oh, well, you know, I'll, I'll start going to the gym again when
44:39
I hit a million dollars in revenue.
44:40
I'm like, you not going to the gym is why you didn't hit
44:42
a million dollars in revenue
44:43
Yeah,
44:45
because an.
44:45
things are linked.
44:46
Yep.
44:46
Every time.
44:48
The first thing is I'm going to sacrifice myself, which is a lens
44:52
of scarcity and perspective where we're not seeing it, whereas the
44:56
boundaries or the, the things that we tolerate or prioritize are the things
45:02
that actually make it happen, right?
45:03
Like I'm, I'm unapologetic, like good luck getting ahold of me before 10:00 AM
45:07
I don't care if there's 77 text messages.
45:10
I still will not see them till 10:00 AM because my do not disturb is
45:13
on, and that's when I get home from dropping him off at school and I
45:17
finish my hour of sacred time with God.
45:19
Other than that, it doesn't even exist in my world.
45:22
I'm like, you know, the five people that can, 9 1 1, we can get through.
45:25
But there's this level of like, we have to be willing to invest in ourselves.
45:29
We also have to be willing to protect ourself in that process.
45:34
And I found that, I'd say the biggest mistakes I made in my career of
45:37
like why I built so many companies and, and built so much success and
45:41
went from $500,000 months down to zero and back up and like six times.
45:45
'cause you know, I don't learn.
45:49
I finally learned.
45:51
Yep.
45:52
I finally learned is because I had avoided the relationship with myself, everything
45:59
was just a compensatory behavior.
46:01
I'm like, oh, it's working.
46:02
Okay, well let me go break it now so I have something else
46:05
to prove, or it's broken.
46:07
Let me make it really, really good again.
46:09
And you know, it was like never, I could never sit down.
46:12
I could never sit still.
46:13
And I had a, a monk on my podcast who's a dear friend.
46:16
He was in.
46:17
Monastery for seven years in silence.
46:19
And he described the secret to success better to me than anybody.
46:23
And he said, if you can't take a poop without your phone, you've
46:27
never lived a day in your life.
46:34
Oh, what did we do when we went to the toilet before the
46:37
mobile phone existed, right?
46:39
And then I look at it and how entrepreneurship is a celebrated
46:43
addiction as a distraction from being in a relationship with myself.
46:48
I don't have to sit there in the silence.
46:50
I don't have to create space for God.
46:52
I don't have to handle the thoughts and the feelings that are going in because I
46:56
will forever have a bucket that will allow me to numb and distract, and the world is
47:01
going to celebrate me the more I do it.
47:03
Yeah.
47:04
That was like my hard truth,
47:07
and that took me getting, I did a three year.
47:10
I'm not allowed to consume content cleanse.
47:13
Mm.
47:14
After a come to God moment, I literally deleted social media.
47:17
When I gave the company away, I deleted a million followers.
47:19
I disappeared off the internet.
47:21
I didn't read books.
47:22
I didn't watch booms.
47:23
I didn't listen to music with any lyrics, and it was like the
47:27
biggest drug detox in my life,
47:30
and it took about nine months for me to get so sick and tired of feeling that way
47:34
that I realize when you can't consume, there's only one thing left you can do,
47:38
which is create, and then all of a sudden.
47:41
There was this place to put my energy and attention, and then
47:45
everything started working in my life.
47:47
But now it's the thing that I crave the most, like
47:50
people know me as, like this guy who speaks and coaches, I'm the
47:52
biggest introvert in the world.
47:54
You see me in an event, my natural state is sitting over in
47:57
the corner staring at the wall.
47:58
You're gonna think I belong in a padded room.
48:00
I am just so peaceful and content.
48:04
I'm like, are you okay?
48:04
I'm like, yeah, like I love myself.
48:07
Like I just love sitting here.
48:09
I. By myself, like in silence.
48:12
And even my partner Joe, she's like, you wake up in the morning
48:14
and I thought you were dead.
48:15
Turns out you're staring at the ceiling in a stillness practice.
48:17
I'm like, oh, it's so good.
48:19
Like, I don't wanna be asleep.
48:20
I wanna be alive, but I also don't have anywhere to be.
48:23
I'm like, totally okay.
48:25
And content sitting in my body.
48:26
And I think that it's a muscle that the more we flex, the better our perspective
48:31
and the better our ability To your point.
48:33
To pursue those things that really, really matter to us, like to be content, but
48:37
also constantly be sharpening and putting that pressure on ourselves to become that
48:42
version that can have the business or have the body, or even have the family
48:45
or the relationships that we desire.
48:48
So powerful.
48:50
listen, I'm aware of time, but I, it's, um, just to come back to
48:55
that, that final point, I think
49:00
it is a divine thing to create.
49:02
I think it's one of those things that is actually, I. Innate inners as a sort of
49:07
part of our divine DNA is to be a creator.
49:09
Right?
49:10
And, and I think you cannot create, if you do not have the space, and if life is
49:16
just 14 hours working, I don't understand where you are creating anything.
49:23
And just the ability to not pick up the phone, to sit and stare at the
49:28
ceiling and just be bored and think.
49:32
I think is probably the times where I've had the best ideas about my e-com
49:37
businesses over the years is if I, if I'm honest, it's not when I'm knee deep,
49:41
14 hours into writing Instagram posts or whatever it is, it's more no, if I'm
49:48
on my bike, Do you know what I mean?
49:50
Or, or just being bored, staring out the window on a train and all
49:54
of a sudden, boom, there it is.
49:55
And uh, super powerful, man.
49:57
Listen, how do people reach you?
49:58
How do they connect with you if they want to do that?
50:00
What's the best way?
50:01
Yeah, so truthfully, the best way is you either think I belong
50:04
in a padded room, or you don't.
50:06
Either way, you're right, and I love you.
50:08
So if you're in the padded room bucket, you can just check out the
50:12
pinkest website in the world, which is mindofgeorge.com, my podcast.
50:16
sales pitch.
50:17
It's how do you get people to tell, get to your website, determin.
50:19
It's the Pinkest website in the
50:21
It's, it's so good and it's my favorite color.
50:22
Like I literally, it's around me everywhere.
50:24
And also if like, I can answer any questions, strategy,
50:27
questions, t like anything, like I love connecting with people.
50:30
My Instagram is like the best place and my Instagram is, itsgeorgebryant,
50:34
the it's is included, it's ITS and then georgebryant, which I know they'll
50:38
have the link in the show notes.
50:39
And to your final point, Matt, the way that I would, I would
50:42
resonate this for everybody is that.
50:45
The biggest challenge most of us have is we're never quiet
50:48
enough to hear God's whispers.
50:51
And when you're intentional about creating the space and for, for
50:55
everybody listening, your God is fine.
50:56
I love my Jesus, right?
50:58
I also love you for loving whoever you love, but your God is fine.
51:01
But that space to your point, is being intentional to create the
51:05
space and then the ideas can flow in.
51:09
And that doesn't happen when you're sacrificing, when you're
51:11
struggling or when you're grinding.
51:13
It only happens when you slow down and allow yourself the
51:15
space for those things to land.
51:17
Yeah.
51:18
Very good.
51:19
George.
51:20
Thank you brother.
51:21
It was an honor, my friend.
51:22
the show.
51:23
We'll definitely have to do this again.
51:24
I feel like it was warming up, if I'm honest with you.
51:26
Oh, I'm ready to do a whole tactic and strategy episode.
51:28
Let's go.
51:29
I.
51:29
Let's do it.
51:30
We'll, we will get that booked in.
51:31
But um, thank you so much for joining us.
51:34
Uh, and thank you listeners.
51:35
If you've been joining us, uh, this week, uh, it's been great to have you along.
51:39
If you're new to the show, warm, welcome to you.
51:41
Make sure you like and subscribe and do all of that good stuff.
51:44
But yeah, fundamentally, that's it from me.
51:46
That's it from George.
51:47
Thank you so much for joining us.
51:49
Have a great week wherever you are in the world.
51:50
I'll see you next time.
51:51
Bye for now.