Latest / True Crime with Gavin Fish / Defense’s Version of Events Raises Serious Questions | The Murder of Kentucky Judge Kevin Mullins

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Defense’s Version of Events Raises Serious Questions | The Murder of Kentucky Judge Kevin Mullins · True Crime with Gavin Fish

0:04
In September of 2024, a Letcher County, Kentucky sheriff walked
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into the judge's chambers, dismissed everybody that was in
0:15
there, and then summarily shot him nine times.
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He is now on trial for the murder of Judge Kevin Mullins.
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We're talking, of course, about Mickey Steins, the former
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sheriff of Letcher County, Kentucky.
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And this is the case that just keeps on taking turn after turn.
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I am excited to welcome Elizabeth Jones back to the
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channel to talk about it. Stick with us, Here we go.
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This video contains mature themes and discussions intended
0:56
only for adult audiences. Viewer discretion is advised.
1:02
Hello there, my friend, and welcome back to another true
1:04
crime conversation with me, Gavin Fish.
1:07
So glad you joined. Wherever you joined from and
1:09
wherever you joined from, please tell me in the comments.
1:13
I just absolutely love that. Without further ado, let's
1:16
welcome Elizabeth Jones to the channel.
1:18
Elizabeth, welcome back. Hi, Gavin.
1:22
Thanks for having us as always. I'm always happy to have you.
1:26
I love our conversations and thanks for being flexible.
1:31
I know that I've changed my schedule on you, so thanks for
1:34
doing that you. Got it man.
1:37
So you were the one that pointed out.
1:39
I went back and I read the this is what happened, guys,
1:43
Everybody, let's do it. Let's do like a elevator pitch.
1:45
Just real quick. OK, let's go to here real quick.
1:51
This is September 19th of 2024. This is Sheriff Mickey Steins.
1:56
He full on shot Judge Kevin Mullins 9 times on camera in the
2:01
judge's chambers and he is basically it looks like it's
2:05
going to be an insanity defense. But what people need to remember
2:10
is this all started because of a civil lawsuit brought by this
2:15
woman Sabrina Adkins and this woman Jennifer Hill, who has
2:21
sadly passed away. They brought a lawsuit against
2:26
this guy, guy named Ben Fields, who was the deputy sheriff for
2:31
this guy Mickey Steins. And after Mickey Steins was
2:36
deposed, that is when, that is when the beginning of the end
2:40
started, right? Yep.
2:43
Yeah, So what? What happened after that?
2:46
So 3 days before the shooting, he went in for a deposition.
2:52
And I don't know if this was what you were getting ready to
2:55
say that I pointed out or not. But I noticed whenever we read
3:00
that deposition that Daniel Dotson, which is one of our
3:04
attorneys here locally in Whitesburg, he ended up
3:08
representing Mickey in that deposition and he was not the
3:13
attorney that was on record for him.
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For that right, did you see what he's expected to testify to in
3:21
the witness list? I read it the other time.
3:24
Don't. Don't do it yet.
3:29
OK. So this is what happened guys.
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This is a federal case. So anything that is that is
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filed with the federal court, we have access to as a public
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record through PACER. So we got those records and I
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sent him over to Elizabeth and typical, this is what happens on
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this case because you're so plugged in.
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I'm like, well, here are some records, here you go.
3:51
But I was, I was focused and I still am on the Nick Reiner
3:54
case. I don't know if you've covered
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any of that on your channel. OK, so I, I'm very focused on
4:01
that case. But then you emailed me back and
4:04
said, do you see that? Their victim blaming here?
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I couldn't believe it. So, so tell, tell us what was in
4:15
that filing. So one of the thing, there were
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two things that I noticed big The one, I didn't actually read
4:25
that until we were on the show and I had it up there and there
4:29
I was reading word for word, and I was like, what?
4:33
Wait a minute, Did I just read what I thought I read?
4:38
Yeah, so Daniel is supposed to testify to what he knew about
4:47
Mickey Stein's participating in the sexual abuse himself and
4:54
what he knew about other people, the higher ups?
4:59
Yes, and I'm supposed to have this open and ready, but I, I
5:02
messed it up. I I opened the wrong documents.
5:07
Let me open this here real quick.
5:09
Now the other thing that I noticed was that they are say
5:15
their big argument is that Sabrina had an attorney, that
5:22
she had had Bethany Baxter as an attorney before she started
5:28
pursuing then. Right.
5:34
Oh my goodness, I have to which? I spoke to Sabrina, They have
5:40
settled, so she settled with the ankle monitor company.
5:44
Yeah. They're not allowed to say how
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much. She's not allowed to say how
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much the settlement was for. But there was an order in that
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bunch of documents where the judge was dismissing the ankle
6:02
monitor company from the law. Yeah, Plaintiff notified the
6:06
court that she resolved all pending claims against defendant
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Eastern Kentucky Correctional Services.
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So they're the, they're the ankle monitor company, right.
6:14
So they are dismissed out of the lawsuit.
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They have settled it for probably some monetary
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something. She said she was embarrassed of
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the the settlement. What is embarrassed in a good
6:26
way? No, in a bad way.
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You know, she was embarrassed to tell us.
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You know, if she could tell us, she would be embarrassed to tell
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us how much the settlement was for.
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But, you know, I kind of researched and looked into that
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and just because they went ahead and settled with the that
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company does not mean anything bad for her suit, for her
6:51
lawsuit. It actually just kind of in from
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what I've kind of put together, it actually just gets them out
6:58
of the way. You know, like they can just
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say, well, you know, we were just for the only thing that we
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were related to was the equipment, you know, And so they
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can kind of just blame Ben, you know.
7:14
Yeah, I think it's probably not a bad thing.
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This is the document from the plaintiffs.
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It's the plaintiff's witness list.
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Yeah. And if we go down to #5 Daniel
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Dotson, who was there representing Mickey Stein's in
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his deposition before he shot Judge Mullins, who And like we
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couldn't figure out you, you were astute on this.
7:37
You, you pointed out like Daniel, what is he even there
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for, right. But look what Mr. Dodson is
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expected to testify concerning his knowledge of Mickey Stein's
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participation in unlawful sexual activities involving female
7:53
inmates and of Stein's knowledge of others involvement in such
7:57
illegal activities while he was Letcher County Sheriff.
8:02
That's what they're expecting Mr. Dodson to say.
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Yeah. And if you, I don't know if you
8:08
caught on to it or not, Gavin, but the defendant's witness list
8:13
and the plaintiff's witness list, they both read very, very
8:19
differently. Yes, yes they do.
8:24
One of them has paragraphs for each and the other one has
8:30
sentences. Right.
8:32
Here's Lashawna Fraser, about an hour.
8:34
Here's Christine Balley, about an hour.
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But then the plaintiffs, man, they're just like, right?
8:45
Yeah, they're throwing everything but the kitchen sink.
8:48
Well, and I wonder if that's part of strategy.
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They know this goes public. I wonder if there's some
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strategy that. I think all of these lawsuits
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are strategy. You know, I thought that I knew
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a lot about our criminal justice system, but I'm not a lawyer.
9:08
Remember, I'm not trained or educated as an attorney.
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My master's degree is in criminal justice, so I, I know
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the, the setup of our criminal justice system, you know, and
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kind of how the procedures and stuff like that work.
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But I am really getting a great education.
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Now. On strategy, on legal strategy,
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on all of these lawsuits, you know, I am filing a big lawsuit
9:42
myself right now. You are.
9:45
I am. And you know, I'm not going to
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talk too much about it until it's filed.
9:52
OK. Yeah.
9:52
Fair enough. But it's a federal lawsuit, and
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it's going to be a huge 1. And So what I am doing now, you
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know, what I've been doing all year, is just watching these
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lawsuits play out and seeing how the lawyers use the strategy for
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each, you know, each hearing and, you know, each outcome,
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whatever they're needing at the time.
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You know, I'm kind of watching and we're getting, we're able to
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see this in the criminal cases and in the civil cases.
10:29
Yeah, I wanted to go to this part where it says let's see,
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let's bring this one up right here.
10:38
OK, so starting here, Defendant Fields admits to having a sexual
10:42
relationship with Plaintiff Adkins wherein they would meet
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at night at the courthouse in Judge Mullins.
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Chambers reports by plaintiff Adkins to KSP Detective OAG
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Investigator Matt Easter where that Defendant Fields, Judge
10:57
Mullins and other quote, higher ups would engage in sexual
11:00
activities with individuals brought before Judge Mullins in
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criminal matters. Adkins.
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And we've listened to this. I know you have on your channel.
11:07
We have on our channel. We've listened to this proffer.
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Adkins stated that she had seen videos of Judge Mullins engaged
11:14
in these activities. Defendant Stein's that and this
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is the defendant's brief, by the way.
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So they're saying Defendant Stein's was unaware of these
11:22
allegations involving Defendant Fields until the filing of the
11:26
lawsuit in this matter and his office receiving a call from a
11:29
reporter. I I don't buy that at all.
11:32
I don't buy it at all. That is the official story that
11:40
he has went with from day one is that that is how he found out
11:45
about that. The lot the civil lawsuit was
11:49
filed was that that reporter had called him and asked him for a
11:52
comment on it. And then right after that was
11:56
when allegedly, supposedly Judge Jimmy Craft, who's over the drug
12:02
court here in Letcher County, and his drug operator, Robbie
12:08
Kenser, allegedly both of them came over to the Sheriff's
12:12
Department right after that phone call and said that they
12:17
were sorry and that they apologized to him, that they had
12:21
not come and told him about the accusations against Ben Sooner.
12:27
And that was one of the big parts of Mickey's deposition.
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Here's the thing. I don't buy, OK, I can buy that.
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He didn't know about the civil suit until the reporter called
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him. Sure.
12:43
I buy that part. You're living in a small town.
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You're the sheriff, you've got women.
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And I think, I mean, we did a video on this where we titled,
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if there's three, there's 300. That's something that Ned
12:57
Pillarsdorf has said, right? It's like we know of three that
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were abused and I don't won't even say allegedly because he
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was convicted on it. We know of three women that were
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abused and abused in the Letcher County Jail.
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It was common knowledge, according to so many other
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people in town that this was happening.
13:20
You're telling me that as the sheriff and as somebody who for
13:24
a decade worked in Judge Mullins court that you had no idea what
13:28
was going on in that court. I don't buy it.
13:33
And, you know, there's another big piece of this big puzzle,
13:37
Brianna Taylor or not Taylor. I don't think her last name was
13:42
Ted Taylor. I think that was the lady in
13:44
Lexington, wasn't it? Brianna Taylor?
13:47
Was that the girl's name in Lexington that was shot and
13:50
killed by the police? Now I I can't remember, but I
13:55
know who you're talking about. Another case you're talking
13:56
about. OK, Well, they're the third
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woman that was in all of this, these accusations with Ben and
14:05
who was in the lawsuit only she was not named as a a plaintiff.
14:10
She was not actually in the lawsuit.
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Her mother grew up with Mickey. There was a whole lot of people
14:19
that grew up with Mickey Stunt. Right.
14:22
There, right? And so that entire thing has
14:26
really been kept on the on the low, low, low, low, low, low,
14:32
low, the low because. Yeah, because there was a lot of
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funky, funny stuff that was going on in drug court.
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So you've got the Stacy Yates guy.
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Stacy Yates, His name is through all of these depositions.
14:49
His name is through everything. He was one of the drug court
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participants who came forward and allegedly gave told all of
14:58
this information. He was kind of like the rat of
15:01
the drug court, if you will. OK.
15:04
He was kind of it, in my perspective, kind of in my eyes,
15:10
looking through all of this stuff that I've all the research
15:15
and stuff that I've done, it kind of seems like he was the
15:21
undercover guy. Like he was the one that the
15:25
prosecutors and the drug court people and everybody kind of
15:29
had. He was the plant, you know, Like
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he went in and got close to all of these girls who were in drug
15:36
court, started sleeping with them, which he wasn't supposed
15:40
to be doing. And then they find out who all
15:44
their drug dealers are and just everything about their life.
15:49
And the next thing you know, these women are just devastated,
15:53
you know, all of which and everybody that knows them all
15:57
their drug deal, they go after their drug dealers, which, you
16:00
know, OK, but still that that's how they're it.
16:05
It just kind of seems like that's how this revolving door
16:10
continues. You know, they keep, they get
16:13
all these people in drug court. And then it seems like that drug
16:17
court and the Senate Bill 90 that Judge Mullins was involved
16:23
in with all the rehab and sending everybody to treatment,
16:27
you've got all these drugs that are just being funneled into
16:33
this area. But you never hear about any
16:36
real big drug busts. You don't never hear about
16:38
anybody. The law enforcement actually,
16:42
you know, stemming this flow of drugs into this area.
16:47
And all they really worry about is putting these people in
16:50
rehab. Because it's a it brings in
16:53
money for their cronies, right? Brings in federal dollars.
16:56
Federal and state dollars. It's just unbelievable.
17:00
But. You know, you know, the sucky
17:01
thing about that, that is that like there are places in this
17:06
world, including the county in which I currently live, where
17:10
drug court is a like rousing success.
17:15
People are going through the process.
17:18
They're, they're, they're singing the praises when they
17:21
graduate from it. They've got a they've got a low
17:25
recidivism rate. They've, you know, it's like
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it's something that could be designed and is in many places,
17:31
including like where I live, which is not all that dissimilar
17:35
from Eastern KY, right? We have, we have the same kind
17:38
of epidemic with drugs that came in at about the same time.
17:42
And, and you know, an economically depressed area
17:46
where where, I mean, this really is an epidemic and has been for
17:49
30 years out here. But it is the one thing where
17:53
I'm like, yes, man, we've, we are, we're helping people.
17:57
And it's not like it's hundreds of people a year, but it's
17:59
dozens. And in a, in a place where this
18:02
small, making that big of a difference in the lives of maybe
18:08
a dozen or two dozen people is a huge, huge win.
18:13
And so when I'm when I hear about out there in Letcher
18:17
County that it's really kind of a it's just kind of a place for
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as a funnel to to sex up girls. Well, it's a trap.
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So they, they would sing all those praises here too, Gavin.
18:32
They, they would sing every bit of that same stuff that you just
18:36
said. Only here's the thing.
18:39
Like my girlfriend, she was given two years in drug court.
18:43
OK, well, they don't really understand what they're allowed
18:51
to do and what they're not allowed to do, right?
18:53
Like so my girlfriend, she just loves that judge that, you know,
18:58
that ran their drug court. You know, she get credit to him
19:01
with giving her, you know, a chance and this and that.
19:05
She was given two years in drug court.
19:07
She never once tested dirty. Not one time did she relapse and
19:12
test dirty, but she ended up doing four years in drug court.
19:18
Now when you agree to do drug court, you give up all your
19:23
rights to have an attorney. You are bound by the the rules
19:30
and the the drug court system and just whatever the judge says
19:34
goes, you know, this and that. But a lot of these people
19:38
wouldn't have even been, you know, like there's Ben Fields
19:42
should never have been arresting anybody outside of the
19:45
courtroom. You know, he was not even
19:47
allowed to. A lot of these people should not
19:51
have even been revoked in the 1st place.
19:54
You know, there was no, their arrest was probably illegal.
20:00
You know, like you didn't have any reason to be in front of
20:04
that judge in the 1st place if they'd left, you know, if they'd
20:08
done what they were supposed to do.
20:11
But. Her, she did 2 year or she was
20:14
ordered two years, but she ended up doing double that four years
20:18
in drug court because they didn't like her mouth.
20:22
You know, they kept giving her sanctions and they'd keep making
20:26
her start all over at the beginning.
20:29
I mean, OK, if you're OK with doing double what your original
20:34
sentence was, you know, but I don't think a lot of people
20:38
would be OK with that. Well, that's The thing is that
20:42
what is the design? What is the purpose?
20:44
And often times in any program, something, something that where
20:48
you goals be. What do they say when goals
20:52
become metrics, they cease to become goals, right.
20:55
So when, when they're trying to, what am I trying to say?
21:04
The point isn't to have people in drug court for the longest
21:07
time possible. The point is to graduate them
21:09
out of drug court and that they succeed, right?
21:14
That they succeed in life, that they stay clean and sober, that
21:17
they make a positive contribution to society.
21:23
You know, they're, they're, they're, I mean, that's the
21:26
goal. But it seems like in Letcher
21:27
County, the goal is to feed into #1 the, the, I don't know, just
21:37
the weird sexual proclivities of people in power.
21:40
That's number one. And #2 to get those federal
21:43
dollars into the rehab centers. And, and I think that's just
21:50
their goal at this point. I think it's trying to get as
21:55
much money and as much funding as they possibly can into this
22:00
county and when you don't have any kind of oversight.
22:05
Yeah, is is let your county, let me ask you this.
22:11
One of the things I hate about the county that I live in and I
22:14
love almost everything about the county that I live in, but one
22:17
of the things that I hate about it, well, not the county, let's
22:20
say the city I live in is that the main employer is the county.
22:27
Like the, the main employer is the county.
22:29
Because this was a, this was an economic booming area until the
22:34
1990s. And then all the businesses
22:36
started, all the big businesses anyway started leaving, right?
22:40
So because I don't know, tell me if this is true in Letcher
22:44
County. But because the the county
22:47
becomes the major employer, the county depends on federal
22:52
grants, state grants, state matching funds, federal matching
22:55
funds, in order to bring in more money so that they can provide
22:59
more services to and employ more people because they're the
23:02
biggest and often times only game in town.
23:06
Is that true in what you're county?
23:08
It sure is. So one of our Congressman Hal
23:13
Rogers put together SOAR shaping our Appalachian region.
23:19
SOAR, SOAR. They are 100 and hundreds of
23:26
millions of dollars. A nonprofit they were started
23:35
basically is a matchmaker. They came in, They don't really
23:39
do anything except teach businesses and local governments
23:47
how to create nonprofits, partner with each other and get
23:52
this money, this grant money into Kentucky.
23:58
You know it. Of course they do all the
24:05
everybody on in these big programs and in these big
24:09
nonprofits, you know, they get to pretty much put their own
24:15
salaries in there you. Know.
24:17
Oh yeah, yeah. These nonprofits.
24:19
There's no such thing really as a not-for-profit.
24:22
No. It's it's a profit making
24:25
enterprise for the people who work there.
24:28
Oh yeah. Yeah, I don't like the term
24:31
nonprofit, but yeah, that's and, and and they will like a an
24:36
organization like that will go well, this in order to get this
24:41
$1,000,000, the federal government requires matching
24:43
funds from some other place. And so let's match up where we
24:48
can get those dollars so that we can bring those in.
24:50
We'll scratch your back for helping us over here.
24:53
You know, they scratch ours and it just it's horrible.
24:57
But getting back to this the case at hand.
25:00
So we get on those side tangents pretty easily.
25:03
But getting back over to the defendant's brief, let me bring
25:07
it up right here. Let me keep keep reading this.
25:13
Defendant Fields. And during the time that they
25:16
were engaged in a sexual relationship, the defendant is
25:19
saying it was a relationship, not that it was assault, but OK.
25:24
Proof in this matter clearly demonstrate demonstrates that
25:28
the scheme to avoid payment of her home monitoring fees were
25:32
her idea and that she initially pursued defendant Fields with
25:37
sexually suggestive comments, messaging and photos.
25:42
The Electric County Sheriff's Office is not vicariously liable
25:45
for an employee's conduct simply because the person is an
25:48
employee. So they're saying Sabrina
25:51
Adkins, she is the one that initiated this.
25:55
Well, if you remember in that interview, when Matt Easter,
26:02
excuse me, when Matt Easter, the attorney general's investigator,
26:07
went down to interview Ben at the end of it, Ben asks him.
26:16
So. OK, so you guys got all the
26:18
stuff. So you saw the messages she was
26:21
sending me, right? And they were like, oh, yeah,
26:24
buddy, we saw it. We saw everything.
26:28
Don't you worry. We know what you're talking
26:31
about, you know, and and that Mad Easter framed every single
26:36
time he spoke to Jennifer Hill, every time he spoke to Sabrina,
26:41
he was the one that framed that. Oh, so you saw an opportunity.
26:47
Oh, so when he started flirting with you, that's when you saw
26:52
the opportunity to not have to pay for your ankle monitor.
26:56
Is that right? You know, and and he knew Matt
27:00
Easter knew to follow up with those questions, like, is that
27:05
right? And oh, but you don't know why
27:08
they would even mention the judge, do you?
27:10
And that was and he said had that or asked her that right
27:14
after she got done saying I saw the video, you know, so he was
27:19
he was manipulating those interviews through a mile.
27:25
Like, I don't know how anybody listens to those interviews and
27:29
does not see that as like, what do you call it, manipulation of
27:38
evidence or something? Yeah, I, you know, though I see
27:42
it a little bit differently than that.
27:44
I saw it a strategy to get them to talk, especially on Ben
27:47
Fields side, because ultimately Ben was convicted, he only
27:50
pleaded guilty, right. So I see it a little bit
27:54
differently, but I, but I appreciate and respect your,
27:57
your point of view and that is what the defendants are
28:01
leveraging here for sure. They're saying the exact same
28:03
thing. And, and I think it's important
28:06
to to maybe recognize that there were some, some like Facebook
28:15
messages where it does appear that she had initiated it.
28:20
But, and this is a huge but, let's call it a fancy but
28:24
however like that ignores the power imbalance.
28:31
It. Ignores the power imbalance.
28:33
It ignores that this is assault because he shouldn't.
28:38
Like it's so obvious he has huge amounts of power over these
28:44
women. He can revoke, he can arrest, he
28:47
can or cause to arrest these women at any time.
28:51
And it is known within the jail. That was stuff that you need to
28:57
do in order to get preferential treatment.
29:00
It is known. So, yeah, I would imagine that a
29:05
woman like Miss Adkins, like Miss Hill, like like the unnamed
29:09
third party, I can't remember her name.
29:11
She's not Morton. Is that what it is?
29:15
Brianna Cornick. Cornick OK, it it just ignores
29:22
that there's a huge power imbalance that that's UN it's
29:29
untoward and it is what it is what it is.
29:32
It's rape. That's what it is because of
29:36
because of that huge power imbalance.
29:37
And he and he didn't seem to have any problem, any qualms
29:43
with, with getting them back in jail if they didn't play ball.
29:48
I'm surprised that it hasn't come out that there was a Smex
29:53
tape with some of the drug court participants.
29:58
So this Stacey Yates, what I was trying to say earlier and I just
30:03
went all the way the long way around it.
30:06
Stacey Yates had a sex tape of the people in the drug court
30:16
stuff and so whenever he tried to tell on Ben for doing this to
30:23
the there were like 3 of the girls that I think he was trying
30:28
to tell on that Ben was doing this to Stacey got to go to
30:33
rehab and the girls who he told on they all got revoked.
30:40
Oh, so he had tapes of his sexual encounters with those
30:43
girls? I don't.
30:45
I'm not really sure who it was. I know that one of the girls was
30:49
in it, and what I was told was that it was played and shown in
30:56
drug court to everybody that was in drug court.
31:00
And I'm really surprised that that has not been revealed
31:06
nowhere. Nobody's talked about that.
31:09
Nobody has said anything about that and I've had several people
31:13
tell me about it. Like, were they in court?
31:17
Did they see it? I don't think everybody, I don't
31:22
think it was there in front. It was shown to like everyone in
31:26
the drug court. But I, I was told just a couple
31:30
days ago that it was. So I'm not sure.
31:34
One person said that there was, there were several people in
31:37
there when it was shown, but it wasn't everybody.
31:41
But there was more people that should not have been in there,
31:44
you know, to see that. And then the other day I was
31:48
told by the mother of one of the people that was in it in the
31:53
video, she said that it was shown to all of drug court.
31:58
So I mean, I, I don't know, I've not seen it myself.
32:01
I was not in the room when it was shown.
32:04
So I'm not exactly sure. But I know that it was shown to
32:09
somebody who shouldn't have seen it.
32:12
Yeah, this, this whole thing just.
32:15
And we have to like, remember, dude, the all of this crap that
32:20
was happening throughout Letcher County's court system ultimately
32:24
culminated in the murder of a sitting judge.
32:29
Like, it's, it's really easy to get lost in like all of all of
32:35
the stuff. There's just so much but.
32:40
And. That dude was gunned down.
32:43
Say that again. It's easy to confuse the two,
32:46
like the civil cases. So there was a big document
32:52
release yesterday or today on Judge Mullins's widow, the
32:58
wrongful best lawsuit. So I've got that.
33:01
That's what we're going to do on my show after this.
33:05
Oh let me, let me see if I got that.
33:06
I didn't even. I didn't even check my e-mail
33:09
today. I haven't received it yet.
33:15
It's the response to the motion to dismiss that was put in.
33:22
So we're going to read that. And I sent you the link to your
33:26
text messages. I sent you the link to my show
33:29
that we're going to have after this.
33:31
OK. If you can do your magic.
33:35
I can do I can do my magic here real quick.
33:39
Let me just guys wait for us for a second while I while I do some
33:44
magic real quick. Yesterday I've got the two mixed
33:49
up. Like in my head, I was my mom
33:52
was on the show and she was talking about something and I
33:55
started going off onto this on the onto the murder side of it.
34:00
And I was like, oh crap, I gotta go back over here to the bin
34:05
Fields case. It's really easy to.
34:08
I mean, the, the case is so, well, it's just so convoluted,
34:14
right? There's just, there's just so
34:16
much going on. OK, that is set up.
34:19
So if you guys stick around after this, you know, when we
34:22
finish up here, it'll forward you over to Elizabeth's channel.
34:26
And if you have not subscribed to Hillbilly Crime, you really
34:29
should. Let's take a moment here real
34:30
quick, Elizabeth, see if there's anybody in the comments.
34:34
Typically when you come on, people don't really comment all
34:38
that much because they just listen to what you have to say.
34:41
Let me see if there's any any comments that we should bring up
34:44
here. K Crow Coffee.
34:49
Cup. This is a dill hole, yes.
34:52
I love it. A dill hole.
34:55
This is I use the word dill hole.
34:58
I learned it from my teacher in high school.
35:01
I think he learned it from Beavis and Butthead.
35:03
But anytime I want to call somebody a disparaging remark
35:07
without, without cursing, I called him a dill hole.
35:11
And I I try, I try. I'm going.
35:13
To have to steal that. OK, K Craft X4L says Mickey most
35:19
likely behave believed his deputies and Mullins rather than
35:23
looked into it. So yes, Mickey knew of the
35:25
rumors but didn't believe it until Ben pleaded guilty to it.
35:29
You think? I mean, that's giving him a huge
35:33
amount of grace, huge amount, a huge benefit of the doubt.
35:38
A lot of people are still giving him that.
35:41
I think I well, and you know what, good on you for doing
35:45
that, but I don't think so. I just don't think so.
35:50
OK, listen, I've got a little segment to do.
35:54
I'm going to read a couple headlines.
35:55
You want to stick around for headlines and then I've got 3
35:58
questions specifically for you. OK, so let's go.
36:05
I have to hit the right button. Let's go get some headlines.
36:13
True crime headlines. How OK Elizabeth in this segment
36:18
I just read a couple headlines and I'm looking for stuff other
36:21
than like I want I want weird news in true crime and I think I
36:27
found one. I think I found one.
36:30
Check this out Headline is former employees detail alleged
36:33
long con blamed on true crime producer OK when it When a
36:39
television production company. When the television production
36:44
company Jeff Nimoy worked for began falling behind on payroll
36:47
in 2017, the Los Angeles showrunner wasn't alarmed.
36:50
Bellum Entertainment was a machine, he said, producing a
36:53
steady slate of true crime shows, children's TV and
36:56
documentaries. At one point, the company had
36:58
upward of 30 shows on air or in development, including It Takes
37:02
a Killer. And then if I like.
37:07
Like his colleagues, Nimoy believe the company's CEO, Mary
37:10
Carol McDonald, was a wealthy aviation heiress with access to
37:13
millions of dollars. Here she is right here.
37:16
OK. But that dream vanished when his
37:17
paycheck stopped and Bellum Entertainment abruptly shut
37:21
down. Nearly a decade later, Nimoy is
37:23
still waiting to be paid over $16,000 and McDonald is a
37:26
fugitive sought by the FBI. She she defrauded banks out of
37:34
$30 million to produce true crime.
37:41
I remember seeing something about this the other day, but I
37:44
didn't get to read. It.
37:46
So there she is. Let me see if I can zoom out
37:48
there there is Mary Cole McDonald Lund.
37:51
Not all things are on the up and up and true crime.
37:54
OK, the next one real quick. This one isn't nearly as funny.
37:58
This is just a case we're following.
38:00
Suspect and stepsisters. Cruz's death says he doesn't
38:03
remember anything. Document CA Have you been
38:05
following Anna Kepner? I have, yes.
38:09
OK, so they've got this custody dispute going on between Anna
38:15
Kepner's stepmom and her former husband, who are the parents of
38:20
the kiddo who is the suspect in her murder.
38:23
And in that in that custody dispute, a bunch of texts were
38:29
filed. And let me just read a couple
38:31
here. A 16 year old boy being
38:33
investigated in the death of his step sister, Anna Kepner on a
38:36
Carnival cruise ship has no recollection about what
38:40
happened, according to text message exchanges between his
38:43
parents filed in a custody court case in Florida.
38:46
The boy's mother told her ex-husband that the teenager
38:48
kept repeating that he didn't remember anything when asked,
38:52
according to court documents obtained this week by local
38:54
media in Central Florida. And then we'll skip, skip, skip,
38:58
skip, skip, skip, skip, skip the attorney for oh, it doesn't
39:05
matter, Just that he's just saying, I don't remember
39:08
anything. And then the last thing I wanted
39:09
to bring up, have you been following this?
39:12
Like they keep pulling bodies, including three more bodies out
39:15
of this Bayou down in Texas. Yes, I have.
39:20
And police are saying we got no serial killer here.
39:22
There's nothing to nothing to be concerned about that.
39:27
Unit for forever. Yeah, 34 bodies and 12 months
39:32
out of the same body of water. And everybody is saying after
39:40
they pulled another three around Houston over the Christmas
39:43
holiday, they're concerned about serial killing.
39:48
And let's see, Mayor John Whitmire says we do not have any
39:52
evidence that there is a serial killer on the loose.
39:56
He said that in September as the body count broke two dozen.
39:59
But with each new discovery from waterways surrounding the city,
40:02
the speculation increases. That's interesting, man.
40:06
Is it may maybe people just walk in there and drown.
40:13
Oh, you're muted. Did I mute you?
40:17
There we go. The last time that I noted that
40:20
I was reading something about this, they were saying, oh,
40:24
well, this one got drunk, left a bar drunk and they must have
40:29
passed out and just fell in the Bayou.
40:32
And this one over here they thought took their own life.
40:36
And they they keep coming up with these different kinds of
40:39
reasons of why these people are dying.
40:42
Everything except a serial killer.
40:46
Yeah, The thing is, it's hard to be a serial killer these days.
40:50
It is way harder than it was during the heyday of the 70s and
40:55
80s. But if there's no serial killer,
40:59
then you guys have some safety issues down there in Houston,
41:02
like what's going on? That's pretty crazy.
41:08
Let's see, what is it? Let's see.
41:09
Following the grim discoveries, 1 visitor told the to the city
41:13
told a local ABC affiliate that the number of deaths this year
41:16
were too high to be explained away, saying the math isn't
41:19
mathing. I think there's a serial killer.
41:21
So I guess I guess we will see those.
41:29
It's just weird. OK.
41:30
You ready for questions? Yes, all right, here we.
41:32
Go 3 questions with Gavin. How I I really like?
41:43
Do you like the? Do you like the production value
41:45
there? I love it.
41:49
OK, guys, here's here's what we do in the segment I and
41:53
typically it's just me, but when we have guests and then they are
41:57
the ones that get to answer the questions.
41:59
In this segment, I we put up three questions that have been
42:03
sent in by you, and we answer the three questions.
42:08
You can send in one question. You can send in 100 questions.
42:10
You can send in as many questions as you want as often
42:12
as you like. Just send them to three
42:13
questions at gavinfish.com. Three questions at
42:17
gavinfish.com. It's spelled THREE questions at
42:20
gavinfish.com. Here we go #1 Elizabeth, what is
42:24
one thing people would be surprised to learn about you
42:27
that has nothing to do with true crime?
42:33
What is something that people would be surprised about?
42:39
Well, I guess I don't know. You're kind of an open book.
42:47
You tell us a lot, right, about who you are.
42:52
I can draw really good. I can't listen.
42:57
I can't draw a stick man unless from memory, but if I have
43:02
something to look at I can draw it just about exactly.
43:07
Are you serious? How did you learn that?
43:10
Just in jail. No, I'm just kidding.
43:17
No, I could draw a lot. A lot earlier though.
43:22
Did you take like art classes in like elementary school or?
43:27
Yeah, yeah. I took art classes just like
43:31
everybody else did, but I was really good at drawing and I
43:35
could shade really good. So I would draw and and do stuff
43:42
like that. Yeah, I was really good.
43:44
Is it something you still do? Not much.
43:48
Whenever I went to jail and spent all that time in jail when
43:52
I was young, I never did have anybody come and put money on my
43:57
books. So I never had money whenever I
44:00
went to jail. Mommy was kind of like, you
44:03
know, you got yourself in there, you get yourself out and I ain't
44:06
helping you with nothing right in there.
44:10
But so the way that I would make commissary and stuff was I would
44:15
draw cards for people that were in there.
44:18
Like if their kids had birthday, you know, birthdays or
44:22
Christmases or whatever holiday it was.
44:26
People are always calling stuff little cards to send home to
44:30
their kids. So that's what I.
44:34
You should post some of that stuff.
44:35
I'd love to see some of your work on on Facebook or
44:38
something, that'd be fun. I bet you my mom has every
44:42
single letter I ever sent her, so I'll look.
44:47
Absolutely, yeah, that that sounds I'm I'm in a bit of a art
44:54
journey right now. Well, it's no surprise and no
44:57
secret. Like I turned 50 and I just, I
45:01
just, I've had a hard time. And so I've been, I've been
45:08
looking for different things to occupy my energy from the like
45:15
all the decisions that I made that I really wish I hadn't.
45:18
I like, I'm really grateful for how things turned out.
45:21
I wouldn't change a thing but but I've been looking for
45:24
outlets for this energy and I've decided that I want to learn how
45:29
to paint. So I, I did, I did a
45:33
self-portrait and I I did it in a pointless style.
45:37
You want to see it? I do, yes.
45:43
I love it. I love it, I love it.
45:46
So what what I figured was I have wrong button.
45:52
This button I have no artistic ability, but I have photographic
45:55
ability. Like that was the art that I
45:57
studied. I, I did photography and so I
46:01
thought that maybe I could do well, it's not going to look
46:06
good up close, so I'm going to have to back up.
46:08
But this is me when I'm like 17 years old.
46:11
OK, here we go. Oh.
46:14
My gosh, that is wonderful. Yeah, you did great.
46:19
There it is. I don't know.
46:21
I love it. So that was my first try and
46:24
I've decided pluralism is too hard.
46:27
I don't want to do that ever again.
46:30
And you did great. All right, question #2 what do
46:35
we got? Oops, back up.
46:39
I'm pushing buttons too quickly. Do you think true crime coverage
46:42
has improved accountability or created new problems or both?
46:48
Because we are in a bit of a true crime renaissance.
46:51
We're everywhere. My friend Kenny says true crime
46:53
has ruined Netflix for him. There's just too much of it
46:56
everywhere. Well, I think both.
47:02
I think that it has improved accountability because there are
47:07
more eyeballs, you know, like where we can't get any kind of
47:13
accountability here in Letcher County, right?
47:16
I mean, there's nobody to go to. There's nobody to listen to us
47:20
except the voters, except the people.
47:25
So one of the things that I kind of came up with a while back was
47:31
if we can't have a proper court of law, then we will have a
47:38
court of public opinion. Yeah, maybe you can sway some
47:42
votes, make some, make some change there, but what has it
47:46
created New problems? I think that the problems that
47:50
it has created, I don't really know.
48:00
I don't. I wouldn't necessarily say a
48:02
problem. So maybe I should just take that
48:05
back, OK. I don't think that it's really
48:08
created any kind of problem except for maybe somebody who
48:13
is, you know, being all territory, like the newspapers.
48:17
We might be a problem for them. You know, I don't think that
48:20
it's a problem for me or the people.
48:23
Yeah, as far as new media kind of coming out and doing the job
48:27
that old media should be doing. Yes, we are a problem for them.
48:34
Yeah, good answer. OK, last question.
48:37
If your Internet search history were read out loud in court, how
48:41
bad would that be and why? I ain't worried at all.
48:47
No. Not at all dude.
48:51
I am. My entire search history would
48:53
show my work. I'm a workaholic.
48:56
Yeah, but my search history would show my work on like, I
49:01
don't know, like the just the strangest, like the strangest
49:06
things. You know, when you're doing a
49:07
story as a journalist on like here in Western Pennsylvania, a
49:11
man was just charged with over 400 counts of possession of C
49:18
Sam material or C Sam. And so in my research for that,
49:25
looking for experts for that, writing stuff up on that kind of
49:29
kind of looks like I'm interested in that sort of
49:32
thing. You know, it's just like I, I
49:35
don't, I hope I, I cannot die or, or, you know, have my
49:42
Internet search history anywhere.
49:47
Well, I think it also context matters, you know, it's like
49:53
it's going to have you're not putting in typing into the
49:56
search bar. Let me see.
50:00
Sure. Yeah, yeah.
50:02
It's going to be context. I don't know people, you know,
50:07
Listen, I don't want to. I don't want to speak out of
50:11
school. But I have joked about this
50:13
before. My wife, my sweetie pie, my
50:16
snuggly bear, my one and only Kimberly Fish.
50:19
She bruises easily. Like she she just doesn't have a
50:23
lot of iron in her diet I guess. She bruises easily.
50:27
And so like say I were to have a heart attack, an investigator
50:31
and a die. An investigator comes into our
50:34
house and she and they see my wife who has like a bruise on
50:37
her leg from something. And then they go, we got to look
50:41
at this Gavin character and then they see all the strangulation
50:45
searches that I have done I'm. Worried, man.
50:53
We got you back, Gavin. All right, we got.
50:57
You back. So you're an open book.
50:59
You don't care. You don't care.
51:00
You're you're in a search history is fine.
51:03
Yeah, mine is absolutely fine. All right.
51:08
Well, those were good questions, everybody.
51:09
Thanks for sending those in. Remember, you can send them into
51:12
threequestionsgavinfish.com. THREE questions at
51:16
gavinfish.com. We're wrapping up.
51:19
Elizabeth, thank you so much for spending time with us tonight.
51:23
I'm looking forward to win this case.
51:25
Actually, we can cover it, and it's the murder part of the
51:28
murder trial. Yeah.
51:31
When? When?
51:32
Actually, don't we have a hearing coming up with, did they
51:36
reschedule Mickey Stein's hearing or did they just say
51:39
we're going to do it another day?
51:41
They I don't think that they have give us a new date for any
51:46
of it yet. So what I have found out about
51:50
that was did I talk to you after that was that they had just, I
51:56
think that the defense went into the judges chambers before court
52:00
that day and said, Judge, we found out that you served on the
52:06
Commission for Mental Health with Judge Kevin Mullins in
52:10
2023. And so we think you should
52:13
recuse yourself from this case. And so then he came out for the
52:21
hearing and was like, well, I'm not going to say what just
52:26
happened, but we're going to have to reschedule this.
52:31
But they do, you know, if they had an in camera hearing like
52:34
that, they did go into the judges chambers or are you just
52:37
thinking that? Well, that was reported by one
52:42
of the other reporters that were at that was at the courthouse
52:46
that day. That has a lot of really, really
52:51
important sources. We need to talk to that person.
52:57
We need to get that reporter on. Fact I just piggybacked.
53:01
Yeah, good for you. Good for you.
53:03
OK, so tonight you're talking about what on your channel?
53:07
So the response to the motion to dismiss the wrongful death
53:13
lawsuit on Judge Mullins. All right, So guys, stick around
53:17
on this channel. As soon as we're done, it will
53:20
forward you over to Hillbilly Crime.
53:21
If you have not subscribed to Hillbilly Crime, there is a link
53:25
in the description below to her channel.
53:27
And like I said, this will send you right on over there.
53:30
Elizabeth, thanks you. Thank you very much for joining.
53:33
I appreciate it. Thanks, Gavin.
53:36
All right, have a good one. I'm going to do a quick little
53:38
outro here and yeah, have a good show.
53:42
All right, guys, just another huge shout out to Elizabeth.
53:47
She comes on anytime I ask and she's easy to work with and she
53:51
is boots on the ground there in Letcher County on this on this
53:55
case. So please, please head over to
53:57
her channel and give her a subscribe if you think if you
54:00
like her content and you think it's worth it.
54:04
Just want to quickly before we go remind you that you can
54:07
always reach out to me on my website, gavinfish.com.
54:10
Let me get over to the right. There we go, gavinfish.com.
54:16
There's always a link in the description down below.
54:18
You can see articles that have been written on crime cod, my
54:21
true crime website and blog posts.
54:24
And you can see all the different ways that you can
54:26
support me. And boy am I grateful to those
54:28
of you who support me by watching my content, by
54:32
commenting and liking, subscribing.
54:35
And I deeply appreciate my members and my patrons.
54:38
Thank you, thank you, thank you. You can reach out to me by
54:41
clicking on this little icon here.
54:43
If you click on the little fishy that will take you to the fish
54:46
tank where we hang out on Facebook and you're always
54:48
cordially invited to hang out with us there.
54:52
With that, let's see, just a quick reminder of our schedule
54:57
this week before we go. We will be doing a live stream
55:02
tomorrow and we will be off on Wednesday and Thursday, New
55:08
Year's Eve and New Year's Day back on Friday, January 2nd.
55:13
OK, With that, I will be to you. I do thank you very much for
55:16
being here tonight. Take care.
55:19
Thank you very much for watching this video.
55:22
If you liked what you saw, please consider subscribing.
55:25
And if you have any questions or comments, please leave them
55:28
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