Latest / Stronger Business Together / E22 Branding for Scale Ups with Leonard Carey
Transcript
- Granger Forson: This is the Stronger Business Together podcast where business owners learn from other business owners. No theory, no gurus, just real journeys and overcoming real hurdles. I'm joined by Leonard Carey who runs ⁓ Smart. Unlike every business owner he's in that middle of building things, fixing things and growing something that really matters. ⁓ welcome. Thanks for spending your time with us today. We're on a mission to make business owners stronger together. If this conversation has helped you, please like, comment and follow on whatever platform you're using. About 60 % of our audience hasn't done that yet. And these small actions help us reach more business owners just like you. you want to join in the conversation as a guest, or if you have a hurdle question for us to discuss on a future episode, ⁓ reach out to us at info. Leonard Carey: you for having me on, hi Granger. Granger Forson: Fantastic. So, let's do Act 1 now. Your business. So, in plain English, what does your business do? at strongerbusinesstogether.com. Now, go make this next week really successful and we'll see you next time. Cheers! Leonard Carey: So we have sensor technology and an analytics platform and we use that get a better picture of what's actually happening inside a home as regards the ventilation, the insulation, where the moisture is coming from and also we then predict where damp and mould is going to be. and we use that to help social housing and ⁓ private renting landlords ⁓ to what they need fix in the house, but also to create a healthier home for their tenants. Granger Forson: Wow, really is damp smart. Fantastic. Says on a says in the tin. typically you talked about ⁓ type of marketplace that you're helping. What they dealing with? Why would a landlord go, maybe they see mold So ⁓ why would they typically come knocking on your then? Leonard Carey: Just not like this, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. think it's some go back a bit dampen mold in properties ⁓ Britain is a dampen wet place and it's been particularly the yeah a couple of decades and And in social housing, and most recently in the news, there's been unfortunately a lot of illness and a few deaths as well because of there being quite a lot of damp or mould in properties. But over the years it's been really hard to fix. There's been lots of either paints that you paint over stuff, there's been lots of treatments that you can apply, there's a whole industry around surveyors going around and saying no it's that, it's rather than that. There's a whole bunch of ventilation specialists saying no if you have this then it will always go away, it will never come back. But I think what's happened over the years is that landlords have kind of got a bit frustrated. because they thought they could get rid of it, they thought they were on top of it, they thought that they could speak to an expert that would better solve it for good, but that hasn't happened. across the industry, ⁓ it be in large housing associations or the smaller landlords with one or two ⁓ right across the board, it's been a problem that's never gone away. And I think one of the reasons why people come to us is because we've taken it right back to the science. You know, the science of why does a building do what it does, not just about here's the temperature and humidity, but also about the actual fabric of the building, the walls, how the ventilation works, but also what's going on outside. And it's amazing that when you talk to people about if it's a cold, rainy day outside. Could you open your windows and still get some benefit or ventilation? The answer in most cases is yes, but if that person is by the coast and you know, most of us know if you're by the coast on holiday place feels damp and that's because ⁓ is pretty damp as well But a science to it And what we've done is we've condensed all that science and created, if you like, a platform and analysis that gives people the answers. And it's important for us that people actually have the answer, not just the surveyor or the landlord, but also the tenant as well. Because to actually solve the problem, you need everybody to understand what the problem is to then be able to know what their part is to solving it. Granger Forson: Wow! ⁓ the way back to basic science and understanding everything that's going on. Yeah, so that's what they're dealing with. They're trying to ⁓ this issue. So what the product? How does it work? Leonard Carey: well, I go a long way actually, ⁓ about six years ago. Back ⁓ small little sensors, don't have with me here, but ⁓ small little sensors ⁓ didn't really in the UK anywhere really. Granger Forson: Hahaha Leonard Carey: And what we thought about this as a problem of not just technology, but also about perception and about how do you preserve people's dignity, I suppose. Because nobody likes to be monitored. Nobody likes to feel as if they're having sensors in their home, they've got no idea what they're doing and they're being spied on. So right at very beginning, we started on a road of saying, let's make our own little tiny little sensors that you can hardly see. But you knew they were there, but they weren't in the way and they weren't obtrusive. But equally in that design, we wanted to make sure that anybody could put them in themselves. So you had a say in it. how do you call it now, People consented to have them rather than having it imposed on them that actually they wanted to it in their homes. So with all of that, over the years we've been building the technology so that's really simple to put in. You don't need any wiring, you don't need any expertise, they're really small as well. And so what it means is that we can put a sensor in every single room, including hallways, loft spaces. basements, we can get a complete view of how the home performs and how moisture moves around, how heat moves around, how the outside weather affects what's going on inside. And with that, we can then start to look at, actually, at the moment, there's a risk in that corner over there. in the future, if you keep doing this, this is what it's going to look like. ⁓ technology is all about making it super simple. Let's hide all the really difficult science. Let's make it really easy for people to just take a sense and put it somewhere and then sit back and off you go. And that you're not tripping over wires. You're not having to worry about to Wi-Fi and that stuff. It's all about I can just do it myself. And that was the main design principle around it. Granger Forson: Wow, fantastic. And actually, they say, you know, making something simple is the hardest thing to do. yeah, yeah. And it's one of the principles of the stronger business together. When I work with my clients, we look at simplifying and making simple things. And you've actually made a simple product by doing exactly that. Fantastic. So tell us about the business. When did it start? What was that original spark? Leonard Carey: Okay, yeah. since the original spark was it must have been about eight years ago. I was working in the telecoms industry. I was working in innovation space and having to fly across Europe and sometimes into the States and talk to large organizations about what we can do around innovation with mobile networks. this is before, do you remember, on your phone right now, you can make payments on your phone. but inside your phone and you can use it for tickets as well go on the London Underground on buses and so on. All is NFC, near field communications. So I working on a team ⁓ with one company. who we first introduced that into the UK way, back. And I even still have one of the phones that we got Ericsson to make. And I think the phone cost something like 80,000 pounds, just as one prototype. for me, the spark has always been about how do you take that really quite... difficult science, difficult electronics, difficult maths, make it so that anybody can use it. And that's always been that journey. How I started with the business though was the same ⁓ of, same sort of thing, but it's more visceral than that. It's more about, you know, hearing from people that they're living in houses and going to people's houses where there's mold everywhere, it's damp, kids are coughing all the time, you know, I've got asthma and you know it's so great at the best of times and I really thought You know, I know some science, I know some great people who know some science, have PhDs and professors. Why isn't any of this stuff, any of the science of buildings, why isn't any of it in the hands of people who really need it? And that was my spark, is to say, let's make it. Now, it sounds easy. because actually the journey is really, really hard do that. it always remains that way is how do you work, how do you make something that anybody can use and get some value out of that's ⁓ science? And don't even know ⁓ they're science. don't even know, ⁓ I one great ⁓ one working with the housing, ⁓ a sorry, and they an enforcement inspection and they go around enforcing changes on landlords but they're a really great team they don't do any enforcement really they do more softer suggestions using our technology and so on and so forth but one of them and she said that she's not very good at maths at all she doesn't really understand maths but now with what we've done she gets it she gets that if this happens then I need to do that And it was a revelation. She keeps on talking to other people about it and just wanting to evangelize that I now know if this is happening outside, I need to do this inside. Wow, that's just perfect. That's exactly what you want from people from your service, from delivering. Granger Forson: Hmm, yeah. Wow, I really like that. And that's a great example ⁓ thought what your technology can do for people to help them. So what does business look like today in terms of size and shape? Leonard Carey: Yes, we've got three of us still. this is the bit that I'll talk about a bit later about we're doing some really great science stuff, really great helping to get to the truth of what's going on in their property. But now about scaling. So with three us, we've got a platform. People love the platform and the technology is fantastic. But it's now about managing the level of demand. and yeah with three people it's not that easy ⁓ so yeah we have them to scale. Granger Forson: And are really important because leads ⁓ sales. ⁓ do you generate leads today then? Leonard Carey: Yeah. So it's partnerships. We're working with two good partners at the moment. they've got their own ⁓ solution. They're not a competitor, but if you like, we're complementing one another. And they've got a really good of clients, ⁓ working with a good organization that represents ⁓ 100,000 private landlords. And so they're helping us to get in front of those via webinars and talking about the things that we're doing. And of course, then generating leads from that and those people. What we're finding a lot is word of mouth. ⁓ I'm surprised that we get an inquiry on the website that says, heard you about you guys word of mouth can you help me often we do get the most difficult cases and some that's one thing I want to change ⁓ that ⁓ don't always want to be dealing with the most difficult cases that nobody else has been able to solve before ⁓ that's not ⁓ yeah it's a challenge scaling that because yeah it's the difficult ones you have to apply some ⁓ significant mathematics and processing to actually get right, not scalable. Granger Forson: for the business then, ⁓ are you sort of aiming for for the next 12 months and why? Leonard Carey: So the next 12 months is all about revenue and amount of properties that we're in. But also going to, for the end of the year, we want to be able to go to more of a SaaS and subscription model. At moment, yeah, it's more a, I would say a little bit of ⁓ moving into but it's more still a bit more consulting. But we want be able to get into that self-serve. software as a service. done everything that we possibly can around making it that the devices are easy to put in and you can do it yourself, you can post it, the platform's there, ⁓ now it's about ⁓ that and making it the that you just go on and just use it and there's a recurring revenue from it. Granger Forson: Wow, exciting, exciting next steps, brilliant. Leonard Carey: ⁓ Granger Forson: now, your journey and what you've learned. So, when you're building a business and you've been doing that for last eight years, there are highs and lows. What are some of those highs? What are some of those lows? And what did you learn? Leonard Carey: Yeah, I think the highs, always like to think revenue is great. there's always that thing about when you wake up in the morning, are you really enthusiastic about what you're still doing? Are you still doing good? Yeah. And that has always been ⁓ I wanted to do is demonstrate, not to myself, but everybody as well that we've results, not just. the monetary results but actually people who are in a better position than they were before. And those are the highs. The highs are where you do get that customer that comes back and says yeah thanks you know I didn't need to spend three grand on changing my wall actually all I needed to do was just put a better fan in there and you guys told me that. It's great. You know that's perfect. I think there's more and more some of the lows but the highs I'll kind of transition into that. Some of the highs which have also been a bit of a double-edged sword when you ⁓ discover that some need a lot more help than they ⁓ admit So when we did a project with one of the big councils we ⁓ discovering who were vulnerable. They weren't on any vulnerability lists. They were living in properties that were damp and cold. But when we spoke to them, their stoicism was so great. They just didn't really want to say that I need help. But when you framed it in a slightly different way, they said, yeah, I do need some help. So it's a bit of a... a strange one that because it was a high because you thought, right, I've actually helped somebody who wasn't helping, who didn't believe that they deserve to help. But equally on the downside, it's like, God, there must be thousands of others like this as well. How big is this problem? Yeah. I think some of the downsides to building the business has been the amount of times we've had to Granger Forson: Hmm. Leonard Carey: We've had to pivot a bit because I think the industry in itself, haven't really, had to quickly change as well. And had to do the same. When we started. We were doing 3D models of point clouds that you can spin around on your iPad and you can that in the corner there's going to be a problem in that corner and people say, ⁓ god, how did you know that? Well, ⁓ the algorithms will tell us that. They give it to their five-year-old and they can spin it around and they really engage with it. We made mistake ⁓ then ⁓ we that the industry wanted that level of understanding and we didn't understand that actually the industry had... I know this is going to go out but it's difficult to say any other way. I think the industry was struggling with their own understanding of how buildings performed and what they really wanted was just a report, a paper report that just said there you go. I think what's coming down Granger Forson: Yes, yeah, lot of people, not experts. We live in our world of expertise, but actually the people that we're helping, they're not the experts. They just want to do this, do that, and take my trouble away. So yeah, definitely, definitely. And it really interesting the way you talked about the pivot and change. So one of the things that we do as business owners, we have to try and... Leonard Carey: Yeah. Granger Forson: manage our resources, manage what we're doing things, make things simpler in the business. And we talk about making your business simpler. So is there anything that you've done within the business then that has made it simpler for you to bring energy back to you and the team? Leonard Carey: Yeah, working with partners has been really important because we found ourselves trying to answer question. And ⁓ can't, know. So ⁓ things we get clients say, ⁓ can you come around and take a look yourself? No, can't do that. You know, we're doing software and ⁓ sensor technology. So working a partner does go around and... and looks at things. But you do go through a business of thinking, should we in that direction? Should we ⁓ a team of people that are going around in vans? Well, no, let's do that. And equally, of the that we're producing now, we've pared that back a bit. We've looked again at how do we simplify the offer. So is that piece of paper that says the ⁓ fingers, right? The seven things that you need to do off you go ⁓ the way through to on the way, here's some predictions and here's what we've done with 29 million homes and here's where you sit within them is trying really understand. What is it that your customer right now? ⁓ is feeling, you know, what pain are they feeling and what is that magic pill they want, deliver it once it's there, once they've got it, then think about the other things. Granger Forson: Yeah. when get busy, we have to make decisions, things have to happen, ⁓ we limited resources. ⁓ Where things still go wrong when you're all under pressure within the business today? Leonard Carey: Wow, the Royal Mail is one. Again, double-edged Because of the kit, you can put it in the post and deliver it. We've just got one last client who wants, you know, who's got hundreds of homes. They want to do a big project and showcase to their big boss. You know, we put the kit in, the raw meals, special delivery, next day by one o'clock. That was on Monday. It's now, what is it, ⁓ So, and still haven't got it. So there's things that things still go you know, and small things like that, you think, well, it doesn't have an impact. kind of does. because it's perception, although it's not your fault, it's still a perception, it still has a knock on effect on meetings that we're gonna have and hopefully a deal and all that sort of good stuff. So it's just a very small thing and to ⁓ who's out there, we just made a slight change to the ⁓ platform. ⁓ We've changed password so it makes it longer and more robust. didn't realize that actually we'd just released some other software that needed link to be permanent. It crashed it and was frantically running around the place. So again it's one of those things of ⁓ small ⁓ small make a small change, how to make a big impact. Granger Forson: Yeah, yes I can can feel that pain. I've worked with software teams but with big teams and big changes and they go wrong. We just need to speak to some of the banks how they've made mistakes. how you keep the business focusing on the right things to do next? How ⁓ do keep the business healthy when it gets really busy? Leonard Carey: Yeah. Well, yeah, exactly. ⁓ I think it's always reminding yourself about... because one thing that is kind of infectious, suppose, is when it gets busy and you're reveling in the idea of, wow, we're busy, we're moving forward, it's great, and then somebody will talk to you about an idea of, I don't know, tracking in the forest or something. It could be anything. It could be just... off the cuff, it could be anything that is related to the technology that we've got, but they then start dragging you towards something which is not what you're there to do. I think that's one of the challenges of knowing that technically you can do a lot of things and it's a technical person's dream ⁓ want to apply what they do to lots of different things as well. But the discipline of saying, tell me how this is going to work for the business. If you can't answer that question, it's not there. Granger Forson: Yes, no, very true. Keeping focus using the power of know, ideas for the future, know, maybe when we've got a hundred employees and, you know, thousands of activities. you know, it is really as a small business, the ability to say no is one of the most important skills that you need. So, yeah, so very true, so very true. Leonard Carey: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ Granger Forson: So let's move on to Act 3 now, our hurdle round. So what have you picked as our hurdle for us to talk about today? Leonard Carey: Well, it's a kind of two hurdles really. And they are related. is the hurdle in market that we're in, the market that we're in. And they on effect that creates for us as a hurdle. And it's really about scale. How do you up? And I'll illustrate that a bit more. Right now, the industry, industry, whether it be social housing or private renting. There's new laws coming out and there'd be, there's ARAB's law for social housing. I think that's been out for a while, but as of the 1st of May, there's now renters' rights coming out as well. And there's a whole bunch of new legislation that gives tenants more rights around the rental property they're in. But it affects so many people. For instance, the councils now, they're more inclined, if put it that way, to when they are asked to go and take a look at a property that's in the private rented sector, that they'll take it through a process where they may go and prosecute the landlord and there's fines and all those sorts of things that goes along with that. And there's also because of that all the claims management companies they're growing in number daily as well and that what that's creating is a lot more fear in ⁓ in markets that we're in but the expectation is growing Granger Forson: Yep. Yep. Leonard Carey: and they're saying look guys can I use the data that we create to then defend a claim for instance that's then creating a bit of a headache of well actually I speak to lawyer about that you know and then you've got the problem of I think I may have said it earlier about I just need the kits now I've got an issue a complaint I need to deal with straight away and then you're trying to get stuff out to people just in time Granger Forson: Yeah. Leonard Carey: So you've got this not just the demand, but also the expectation and the worry that's going up and up and up. And then that cascade through to us that says, right, need it tomorrow. I need right now. Yeah. And how does it go? Granger Forson: Yeah, okay. so we're thinking about scaling in a marketplace that probably your type of technology, but maybe doesn't fully understand it, that And we're of about, know, how do we, you know, the business grow to satisfy what they should know that they need. Okay, ⁓ yeah, I definitely see that. So let's just cast our heads forwards. If we were Leonard Carey: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Granger Forson: fix this big problem, going forwards. But we forward six months, ⁓ what would better, not perfect, would better like for you in a sentence in six months' time? Leonard Carey: Okay. Wow, okay. So specific, there's always the revenue and as a team, you'd love to be able to have the size of the team. That's why you have another developer, have someone who's absolutely dedicated to marketing and looking the class that we do have and also then getting more as well. Getting the logistics. right as well and finding a logistic partner who can actually the next day that'll be really really good. But think going back to the other hurdle of the marketplace and trying to get the marketplace to to be educated a little bit as well we're already starting on that journey of saying here's a free tool and we're going to be doing some social media stuff as well where we're hoping ⁓ Granger Forson: Okay. Leonard Carey: to get people to say, all right, didn't realize that was, if you did that, that's what happened. Granger Forson: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So let's, I'm just going to pause there. So the problem with problems is problems can be really big. I was trained by some Japanese back in the nineties. That's, yes, that's how old I was. And my master engineer always say to me, Granger-san, you cannot eat the pizza in one go. We need to break it down into smaller slices. Okay. So let's, let's pick one of those. Is it revenue growth? Leonard Carey: Okay. Granger Forson: Or is it awareness or is it logistics? Which one are we going to try and fix this conversation that would be better in six months' time? Leonard Carey: I think growth comes from awareness. ⁓ because I think and those two are linked. They're just stuff we can deal with and that's okay. ⁓ Granger Forson: Okay. Okay, so let's talk about awareness and getting the awareness of your and how it helps your clients, et cetera, out there. Okay, so starting condition, ⁓ today, what's on, what do you do today? Leonard Carey: So there's a number of things around awareness. One is webinars, blogs, LinkedIn, mail, word mouth, all these things. But I the problem is a bit big and this is why we've taken a route of how can we actually go out to the mass market say, by the way, do you realize that by the relationship between temperature and humidity inside and temperature and humidity outside is this. And if that happens, if you use these little sliders, almost like a game, almost like gamifying it, almost starting to get people aware they know that there is a problem. And after that, we're there to solve it. Granger Forson: Yeah, yeah, okay. Yes. Absolutely. So the top of any marketing funnel is people that don't even know they've got the problem. The next stage below that is people that are problem aware, but they're not even looking for a solution. Then below that is people that are problem aware and looking for solution. And then the final bottom of the funnel are people that are problem aware. They understand they need a solution. They know what solutions look like and they're looking to you to fix that because they know you. Leonard Carey: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Granger Forson: So the difficulty we have, if we must think about then also, so that's the marketing funnel, but actually think about the law of diffusion, okay, of a new product. It starts off with those early adopters, then it goes to the early minority, then it goes to the late minority, and then we then have to cross the chasm. And I feel maybe at the moment, know, have you got those early adopters, those evangelists, those people that are out, you know, They love your product, they love what you do. Have you got those real people that can get your case studies from, they're shouting, they're telling everybody? Okay, ⁓ ⁓ those are the most important people to motivate for you to then talk to the next level of people. ⁓ them involved with the evolution of the product, keeping them involved with what you're doing, keeping them excited about what's coming next or... Leonard Carey: Okay. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, we do. Hmm. Granger Forson: what your marketing planning is next. Getting them, meeting them on a inverted commons regular basis, okay, I don't know what that means, but keeping them so evangelised that they're talking to more people because you need that first set of people to evangelise your product and make that happen. That's what the law of diffusion talks about. The next step is they help you to introduce you to the early minority. So those people that will start to, you know, they are problem aware, they know they have a problem, but they... Leonard Carey: Yeah. Granger Forson: don't know that the product and the systems are out there. it's then picking those type of people and thinking how your marketing approach, rather than mass market at the moment, the reason you can't go to mass market is you haven't crossed the chasm yet, which is a great book, talks about technology and how to spread technology. it's very clear that if you don't do those first two stages, ⁓ never get to the point of enough people talking about you to cross that chasm. If you're in that early minority and you've got those evangelists, what are you doing to try and get more people on the bandwagon that have a problem and need some sort of solution? Leonard Carey: Yeah, it's a difficult one, it's... Yeah, we are... For instance, with the councils, we know that getting into councils across the UK is hard. So we've got two that we're working with very closely and we meet them every week and we go through their cases and start building up that relationship and making sure that we're embedded into the things that they do. And of them ⁓ has a very strong link to the London Mayor's and then they have this meeting with all the other London boroughs. I think that we've got to remind ourselves not to be ⁓ because you think that, ⁓ you think that I've got this really good relationship, they love what we're doing, they're talking to other people, why everybody knocking on our door? ⁓ Because, know, yeah. ⁓ Granger Forson: Yeah. Yes. Yes, but what I often say is how are you helping them to talk about you? I mean by that is ⁓ materials do you give them? What website links? ⁓ training do you give them? What extra bonuses and excitement are you so you're always on the top of their mind when they go into other meetings? Are ⁓ meeting and finding out when they're going to the next meeting and sending them little reminder beforehand? I'm just... ⁓ Leonard Carey: Alright. Yeah. Granger Forson: thinking of ideas off the of my head here, but yeah, but it's keeping them evangelised so they then start spreading the word and giving them things that they can go, oh look, have you seen this or have you seen this, have you seen this? They can either hand it over physically to help them do it, because you've got to find those next set of people which will help to unlock then the growth that will take place. Leonard Carey: Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah. You are right and we are doing but not maybe ⁓ in regimented way that we need to. I think we need to do that more. I think ⁓ in of you know working with One Housing Association and their surveyors and we talk to them every week and we give them ⁓ new to use and show that they're show their talent show their other ⁓ surveyor and within the RICS community as well and just keeping that moving. ⁓ Granger Forson: Yeah. Yeah. Leonard Carey: But it's, yeah. Granger Forson: And what you get back from that is gold dust, okay? Because that is your effective, what you're doing is you're testing your marketing strategies. We often think that marketing is about that mass media and putting it out there. It's not, it's the hard grunt work that you do with those first amazing set of clients to test what works, them to help you find other people and testing what that works ⁓ people well, I know this ⁓ organization, okay. Leonard Carey: Yeah. Hmm. Granger Forson: what, who do you know in the organisation? We'll contact them, yeah, if you can just do us a quick introduction. We'll do all the hard work, but just do that brief introduction. And now you're testing how you do that first introduction. How do you approach people? So you're testing, you're testing, you're building that knowledge and that skill base, ready for that early majority now on board, you've more people, you've doubled your revenue, and then you're saying, Okay, now how do we get to the early majority? We've got to cross that chasm, but you've got all that experience then of doing that, rather than trying to jump it straight away. that's, you when you read the book, it takes you through those structures and that thinking, definitely. Leonard Carey: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. think you're right. And I think when you look back at what we are doing, in a way we with... We're working with some letting agents at the moment. working very closely with two or three of them to get that sense of, do love it? Yes, has it made your business better? Yes, it has. Great. Talk to other people. And that's sometimes we then get the word of mouth coming back. ⁓ But the Yeah. ⁓ Granger Forson: Absolutely. Yes. And the webinar, mean, it could still be the webinar, but rather than using the webinar in a mass market, what you're testing is you're testing the webinar on those next set of people because they've had that brief introduction. They're lower down in the funnel. They're aware of it. There's a system out there called the perfect webinar and the structure of it helps you to build up that need to the point of where you then make that sell, et cetera, in it. Leonard Carey: Yeah. Granger Forson: webinar is a great tool but maybe what you're trying to do is you're trying to use it in the wrong marketplace at this moment of time because people aren't actually aware of the problem they're actually looking for a solution but when someone says worked ⁓ with these guys we've worked with damp smart and this is what we did ⁓ and I do a quick introduction they then let you know you phone them up you talk to them say well we've got this fantastic webinar coming up next week Leonard Carey: and Granger Forson: Why not come on the webinar? Because we teach you all about damp. we give you all the tricks and the trays of ⁓ dampness in the house from experience. It's only 10 minutes long. don't ⁓ know long your webinar is, but you do it quick. And at the end, then you say, look, you can do this all yourselves. ⁓ But actually, you use our product, we can do this x, y, and z. ⁓ So building that knowledge of how get the webinar to work with people that are interested. Leonard Carey: Yeah. Granger Forson: before you then try to of mass market it. Leonard Carey: Yeah, I going market is not going to be what we can do right now. think it's, ⁓ I going back to some earlier points we making around scaling up, scaling up just to that small that has suddenly become ⁓ quite, the expectation have up pretty high. ⁓ I think they're motivated ⁓ and they're eager and Granger Forson: Yeah. Yeah. Leonard Carey: we've got to be able to make sure that they are working with us in evangelizing to a wider market and that's great. Granger Forson: Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's probably where all get lost in marketing, because we see marketing from the point of view of McDonald's, ⁓ ⁓ mass markets, fantastic, you know, or Nike or whatever. We go, that's what our marketing should be. But actually, we forget that McDonald's once was a very, very small organization and they had to grow. did they, what was the journey they went on? And that's what, you know, these Leonard Carey: And then I will speak for you. Granger Forson: structures of crossing the chasm type thing for technology companies takes you through the journey. So what we have to do is just learn from those really great experiences and understand the journey and apply the journey and then put on our magic dust which is the way that we want to do it because of the technology and the way that our story helps and delivers and that's really what we have to do as businesses, small businesses to fight our way. Leonard Carey: Blue. Yes. Granger Forson: up that curve. So, okay, brilliant. So, sort of ⁓ or two experiments would you ⁓ in the next week to try and ⁓ to see something around this? Leonard Carey: Yeah. I think because right now we've got leads you know we've got 500 leads 500 names and in that group some we've recently contacted or been in contact with through the webinar that we had a couple of weeks ago and they were they're pretty warm if you like but rather than going to there's about 200 of those. Rather than going to all 200, what we want to be able to do is go to some that we know are linked to others that we've done some work with. To then say, look, this is what the sort of things that we've been doing. Speak to these guys, they're in your region. Let's chat. I think what we're picking up more and more is that particularly landlords are very risk averse. Granger Forson: Yeah. Leonard Carey: They've made a capital investment. seen lots and lots of solutions out there. They really are listening to their peers. ⁓ that's we need to tap into a lot more. So we are not going to for a mass, let's go for all 200 people. It's going to be more about, let's pick some. that may be in the same area as this one that we're working with in Southend, for instance. And say, go on talk to them. what we're doing with those guys. I think that would be good. Granger Forson: Yeah. Yes. Yeah. And the key always is helping them to understand the pain that they're in because a lot of people probably don't understand that they're in pain. You know, that's that top end of the funnel. People don't know the pain and they don't know that there's a solution out there. The next level is then they sort of know the pain because they've read some stuff, they've seen some stuff, their friend has told them about it, but they don't actually know that they need a solution. Yeah. Leonard Carey: See you. Hmm. Granger Forson: So you've got to find those people at the lower end of the funnel initially ⁓ you move up the funnel it becomes more expensive ⁓ convince those people. So you've got to find the people at the bottom of the funnel. They've got the pain. ⁓ understand the product exists and they know that you exist. ⁓ they've made that connection because they've connected to someone else that you have already delighted and love what the solution is that you can do for them. And if you can make those two connect you'll have a much greater chance then of that. Leonard Carey: Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. Granger Forson: sales opportunity. Leonard Carey: I'm really glad we've had this conversation. know this is supposed to for another purpose, but I think it's good listening to what you have to say because often, and I don't think we've touched on it, but often as a business owner or just a small startup, sometimes your mind is in other places and you just need someone to remind you of the basics. Not just the basics, but this is couple of steps you can do and ask that question. What are you going to do next week? Granger Forson: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And that's the purpose of this podcast is to spread that greater knowledge. I work with 24 clients at the time, that's it. the podcast is to help share, give you that brief moment of time just to pause and to think and reflect. That's why we have this hurdle. yeah, ⁓ ⁓ thank you so much. That was fantastic. There's some really good stuff in here. So let's move on to our wrap up and close because you won't believe how long we've been recording for. So, ⁓ what... Leonard Carey: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ Granger Forson: What did you hear yourself say today that maybe surprised you? Leonard Carey: I think it was just this last piece of the conversation which is more about what we're do next week. I think sometimes you can really get bogged down in what you're going to do by the end of the year. What's the big target? What's the big milestone? What's the big revenue number? Connections, whatever it is. But the question of what you're going do next week, that's really important. and to actually have an answer or have somebody who can steer you around that. Of course, you do need to have that bigger picture. And I think through this conversation, I think it's structured really well actually to talk about what you've been, what's it been like, where you're heading, and by the way, so if you want to go over there, what's your first step? And I think that bit for me, that sticks in my mind. from this because as always you can be strategising Granger Forson: Yeah, yeah, taking action is the most important thing, but, you know, think Tony Robbins could take the tools about taking a huge action or giant action, can't remember the exact words, but yeah, just taking action, yeah, is what we need to do. Finally, how can people find out more about you and follow your journey more? Leonard Carey: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we're on LinkedIn. So, website is ⁓ If a landlord ⁓ and a member of ⁓ tenancy scheme, ⁓ we're a whole bunch of blogs to them ⁓ every of weeks, every month, I think now. So, if you go onto their website, you'll probably see some content that I've written. certainly come to the website, take a look around. Hopefully we've got the answers to the questions that you have and hopefully we can help. Granger Forson: Fantastic. Thank you so much for being so open and honest. I know our listeners will get a great lot from this conversation. It's been fantastic. Thank you. Leonard Carey: Yeah Thank you. Granger Forson: ⁓