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Episode 11: Boundaries are Kindness · the Unvarnished Edit

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Welcome to episode 11 of The Unvarnished Edit, where two friends talk about what it's actually like to live an adversity-filled life.
Be prepared to laugh, possibly cry, and swear along with us.
This is Angie, and in today's episode, we discuss how we learned about setting boundaries and where we still struggle.
We hope you enjoy.
Hello.
How are you? I'm doing really good.
How are you? Good.
Remember, a couple episodes ago, we were recording and I said something like, "Oh, my Mondays are always good," because we always record after my free weekend.
Well, because of our schedule changes for this one, I had my daughter over the weekend, and oh my God.
And I know, I'm sure a lot of parents that hear this are going to understand and agree with this.
We don't do sleepovers, for a lot of reasons, mostly safety.
But this past weekend, it was a situation I knew was safe, I felt totally comfortable with, and so I made a rare exception, and I really think this is the first time I've ever sent her out to a sleepover.
Told her, like, "Okay, I will turn my ringer on and turn my volume up.
If you need me overnight, you just text me and I'll come get you," right? Now, I always have my phone on do not disturb.
I do not like getting notifications from my phone.
Yeah.
Um, so to have, especially overnight, to have my phone on and my ringer on, and I didn't put my earplugs in, so I wasn't sleeping that great anyway.
And then I woke up at 3:00 AM from, of course, a nightmare, 'cause I always have nightmares.
And, um, I decided to just kinda glance at the phone, and I saw that she had texted me at 1:00 AM.
And so I, like, fully wake up.
I'm in, like, a panic.
Oh, my God, something's wrong.
She had sent me a request to download a new app at 1:00 AM.
I was like, "This child."
If that is not the actual description of what it's like to be her parent, I don't know what else is.
And I had told her my do not disturb is not on.
My earplugs are out, and my ringer is up, and you still chose to send me an app request at 1:00 AM? Because, yes, I have parental controls.
She has to ask me for everything.
And I was just...
And then I was wide awake.
I was just laying there, just, like, could not sleep because that adrenaline of, like, seeing the text message.
And so when I picked her up, I was like, "Girl, you have to consider more than just yourself.
I'm not sure if you're aware of this in your 12-year-old barely formed brain, but did you think that that's what I wanted at 1:00 in the morning?" Was like...
And it was for that finch self-care app.
yeah.
And I was like, "This is the opposite of self-care for you and for I, what you did to us last night."
I was so pissed.
So pissed.
Oh.
Um, but you know what she said? never.
I have it?" I was like, "Yes.
Get finch.
Get out of my face."
I have that.
I was like, "Oh, no."
it it was.
a good, it is a good app, Yeah.
awareness of, Yeah.
Yeah.
others.
Yeah.
Little bit.
Little bit.
I like-- old do you think they are when they actually develop that? Because...
Not until...
This is off the top of my head.
Not until they have a significant other that their lack of awareness negatively impacts their relationship.
Ooh, that's a good one.
I don't think it's ever gonna come from us I think we can continually give the advice of, "Hey, you're not being aware of others," so that when someone else calls them out on it, all of our advice lays on top of that, and they're like, "Oh, okay."
Right? So I think it's still, like super valuable to tell them, obviously, but I don't think the actual lesson will come from us.
Yeah.
Yeah.
See, my ki- my, like, my kids are super aware of others But it's still of mine, and so I'm honestly wondering if this is really just part of our Mm-hmm.
kind of like always being on as a parent, Yeah.
a mom.
Yeah.
And so even if the boundary has been set, mom will still override it.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
can still override it- yeah.
And mom's gonna be like, "All right."
So yeah, mom's gonna tell me, "Hey, I shouldn't have sent that at 1:00 in the morning," but ultimately, she's fine.
And ultimately, she gave me the app.
Exactly.
Yeah, I do think that.
I do think that.
I think boundaries, I'm so glad we're...
I'm not glad we're doing the boundaries, Yeah.
but I am glad we're doing the boundaries.
Yeah.
And I think that this is a really important follow-up to our forgiveness episode.
So if you ha- if you're listening now and you haven't listened to forgiveness, you might wanna give that a listen, which was like, I think episode nine, and this is number 11, so you just have to go back not that far.
Because, one of the things that we touched on in that forgiveness episode, that forgiveness without boundaries can, is, can be abusive, right? This is like not an easy, this is not an easy conversation.
I am someone who knows a lot intellectually and theoretically about boundaries, but am just barely starting to get good at operationalizing them.
Yeah.
And so I guess maybe this is, falls under the category of the obstacle is the way.
The thing that I don't want to talk about is probably the thing that I need to talk about.
Yeah, yeah, and honestly, that's how I felt about forgiveness, too.
Ah.
Hmm, so strange.
I know, right? Um, so boundaries, if you have n- if you did not learn boundaries growing up, them, learning, learning what they are first of Mm-hmm.
then implementing them in The art.
I feel like, Yeah.
I feel like I'm consistently learning about, oh, this is actually a, this is actually a bound- boundaried event.
Like, this is an event that needs to have some boundaries on it, and I typically don't realize it needs to have some boundaries around it Until it takes me out in some way.
Like I'm super dysregulated or, you know, I've overdone it and, my body is like, "We're done."
I get sick.
You know, something, something like that.
I, I typically learn from the adverse effect that it has on my physiological body and my brain before I'm like, "Oh, I think I need to create some boundaries here."
So I think while we have this conversation, I think the first question is, is because a lot of people I don't think know what it is, but to you, what is a boundary? I actually heard a definition of a boundary a couple years ago that, like, made it so much easier for me to understand what they are and implement them.
So, Yeah.
is from Prentis Hemphill.
She's an author, and I...
She was on a podcast, and she said that the definition of a boundary is the closest distance at which I can love both you and myself, Yeah.
Ooh.
right? Yeah.
To me, that is, I literally picture it as here is this person, and here is me, and here's the thing that's irritating me, or here's the solution to the irritation.
H- Where do I put it? Where feels good? Where is the point of integrity for you and for me? Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
I like that.
It's a really good one.
Yeah.
And I also wanna say what a boundary isn't.
I do this in parenting a lot.
I make a request, and I call it a boundary, Hmm.
is, Don't text me after 9:00 PM," Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
but that's not a boundary.
I don't have control over when people text me.
That gives them control.
That gives them the power of whether or not I'm okay, and that's not being in love with myself, right? Yes.
The boundary is, I won't respond to texts after 9:00 PM.
The other person can do whatever they want.
I have to maintain control of the solution.
It has to be something that only involves my response.
Otherwise, I'm just controlling another person and calling it a boundary.
so I literally just saw a, like a Facebook Reel or something, um, this morning and, it said, "I don't care about your boundaries."
And I was like, What?" And so I clicked it, 'cause of course we're having this conversation Mm-hmm.
I was like, "What is, what is she saying?" And she's like, "I don't care about your boundaries."
She goes- I care about my boundaries.
us to Right? But that boundaries, we create boundaries not for others, but we create make ourselves ourselves safe.
right, and we are the ones who are responsible for keeping those boundaries because we can't control what other people do, and they're gonna do them, Yes.
Yes.
You know, growing up I struggle to say like we were enmeshed, but we really were as kind of a family.
And, we really kind of had that conversation of that is, like, super healthy and all of those pieces until I had children of my own.
And my children got older, right? And they had to start doing their own lives.
Mm-hmm.
And as they were adolescents had to practice what that meant to, Yeah.
right? And how, and how detrimental that could be, right? And then realizing that when I was Yes.
it didn't make a difference, right? That she, she would continue doing that until she was blowing up or until she was exhausted and you know what I mean? And then starting to learn of, okay, so what is a boundary and how do I operationalize it, is still a path that we're on, Yeah.
right? Yeah.
I think people think that, you know, sometimes it...
I feel that people think that boundaries are just this, like, rigid thing.
but the boundary line actually changes depending on for me.
what I mean by that is I'm exhausted, I'm going to bed, don't bother me, right? Everything is off.
I'm that, I'm super exhausted.
So we have this kind of boundary space.
But like the other night, you know, Jeremiah had prom And so it didn't make a difference that I was tired.
I stayed up to make sure that he made it home safely 'cause we all know kids driving, junior prom, you never know what that's gonna look like.
I, you know, kind of make sure, "And I'm here at any moment that you need.
So my phone is on, you call me, I will come and get that."
And that's what I mean by that.
Like, most people think that boundary is like, "Okay, I'm exhausted, so I'm going to bed, so don't bother me."
it's, it's not like a fence line.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Right.
Right.
Yeah, it's you're in charge of it.
And I think Yeah.
when people...
It can sound selfish, right? Like, I'm tired, my phone is completely off, my earplugs are in, I'm going to bed.
And it's like, oh, but all this life is still happening.
And it can, I think especially if you're a people pleaser, it can feel selfish, and it can be perceived as selfish.
Mm-hmm.
to learn is that, um, I'm such a better friend, worker, wife, mom, person in the grocery store line if I adhere to my boundaries and take care of myself, right? Mm-hmm.
And that actually, if it's selfish, then I'll be selfish because, Mm-hmm.
it's gonna help me show up in a better way, right? And Yeah.
I think, like, I grew up in a very codependent environment, and we've given this definition before.
I think Melody Beattie's definition of codependence is, amazing, and I didn't realize what it meant until I had children.
And that definition is, it's an environment in which you actively protect people from the consequences of their own actions, right? And to me, that is also unboundaried.
I will step in, and I will...
And, and let's just give, like, a really simple example of this, right? Like, I never let my older kids sleep, miss school because they slept in.
I would wake up early- Take, make all of the breakfast, do all of the household things, and then I would very gently and slowly wake them up, "Hey, you have 15 minutes left before you need to get in the shower."
I still kind of do this.
And their dad, their dad would always be like, "You are not letting them prepare for real life.
You're not...
Like, they're, they need to be able to wake themselves up.
Like, if they're in high school, they should be able to wake themselves up and get themselves ready."
And when I finally relented and started letting them do that, if they sle- overslept, if they missed the bus, I would literally save them.
I would, "Oh my gosh, let's get you there on time.
Here's a sandwich.
Eat it in the car.
Get your shoes on.
Let's go, let's go, let's go, let's go."
Now, this is a very basic example.
Are they still fine adults? Of course they are.
But if I had had boundaries at that time, I would be able to say, "You know, I, I didn't...
It's not my fault you got up late or that you overslept.
That's your fault.
The consequences of that is that you are running late, and you need to feel those so that you adjust your own internal boundaries in the future."
Like, I was creating an environment where they couldn't build boundaries themselves Yeah.
because I was violating it, and I was saving them from the anxiety of having that happen or the negative effect of having that happen.
And like you said, when you look back is when you realize you need a boundary, right? Well, if I'm never allowing my children to feel those things, or if I'm never telling my partner, "Hey, you really hurt my feelings when you did that," or, "When you're late, it causes me this," right? I'm not even giving them the opportunity to set boundaries and adhere to boundaries.
I'm Yeah.
doing it for everyone, basically.
absolutely.
Right? And I think that's, this boundary, boundary, um, Yes.
is we have-- we're giving all of it, Mm-hmm.
right? Now, I mean, it is for their wellbeing too, as well, especially when you're-- they're with children.
Um, but that, I think that goes for anybody at Absolutely.
understand what that actually feels like.
Mm-hmm.
But still, the ultimate piece is the boundary is ours.
This is what I can...
This is where I have realized I can handle That's without giving so much of myself that I don't have anything left for myself.
part where, "And I can love myself."
It's so easy for me to set a boundary that loves the other person.
Absolutely.
hard for me to set a boundary and I also love myself.
Because that usually means pulling back my contribution, Yeah.
that can be very hard to do, right? Yeah, yeah.
And there's so much in this conversation 'cause we're talking about little tiny pieces and parts of parenting and relationships and, and also you and I both have a lot of experience with way bigger boundaries that need to be held, right? Like I have no contact with my ex-husband, and that's a much bigger boundary than my kids need to set an alarm to get out of school in the morning.
And it takes a lot more time and a lot more harm for me to come to a boundary of, "I don't care if you reach out to me, I will not respond.
I will not interact with you."
Right? Yeah.
And so that's also part of the hard part of boundary conversation is the harm happens in so many different levels Yeah.
long periods of time.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And boundaries can be something super simple, and they can be super complex.
hard part about boundaries, no matter the, no matter how much goes into it though, holding them.
Yes.
and when you're, when you're implementing them as an adult, it feels so counterintuitive.
Mm-hmm.
feel like it's almost like it's harm for other people.
And so I had to realize, you know, in Yeah.
right? Like, it's become so normalized just to be absolutely exhausted, to have so much on your plate, to say, "Oh my gosh, I'm so busy.
I'm so stressed," that I didn't even think of what was contributing to that, Or that you had a say in it.
Or that I had a say in it.
or that I was actually doing more harm than I was doing good Mm-hmm.
it comes to my kids and not having bound- especially my youngest.
Because, because of his ADHD and his anxiety, he needs solid guardrails.
And yeah, he n- that actually is Yes.
him feel safe.
That's what actually helps him.
That's what helps him grow.
And where I thought I was caregiving and being a good mom and all of giving everything of myself, It was actually doing more harm than it was good for him, right? And so when I started thinking, "Okay, well, that actually mean to me?" First of all, my recovery is so much better now than it was before this, right? Is recognizing like, "Oh, I actu- this actually is super dysregulating, and I can have, like, this much, you know, of it.
I can't have the full entire thing, but I can do a piece of it or a portion of it," right? "But then I need to rest.
I need to do something else."
It has just made me so much more emotionally stable healthy.
Yes.
Yeah.
It's interesting 'cause when I got diagnosed with PTSD and we started going through, um, the sensory...
And I should say I have CPTSD.
I always say PTSD, but I have CPTSD.
Mm-hmm.
um, we started going through the, what that means in a sensory setting.
And, I had obviously no idea that not everyone reacted to overwhelm the way that I reacted to overwhelm.
And some of the things that I started to recognize were that noises and lights and being startled, all of those things were activating my CPTSD and causing huge amount of overwhelm and shutdown.
And so when I started putting boundaries around my sensory intake I started demanding in my house that more lights are shut off and that it's darker.
I started Wearing noise-reducing headphones or earplugs when I leave the house.
I started demanding that the volume be turned down, had to have a really intense conversation with my daughter of, "You can no longer sneak up behind me and scare me.
I-- Mm-hmm.
system cannot handle being scared like that, and you're doing it on purpose because you think it's funny because it's so easy to scare me."
And those things, when I started getting really, really adherent to those things and refusing to go to the grocery store very often.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Am such a better person.
I am, like, calm, and I can have better conversations.
I'm not screaming and yelling at people.
And when I think about how long I lived with CPTSD and didn't know it and was allowing...
I knew that loud noises and bright lights irritated me, but I just thought I was weird and too sensitive.
And when I think about all of the time that I lived with those things, and I would fly off the handle at the tiniest provocation, Mm-hmm.
A form of having no boundaries and no love for yourself, and the harm extends to other people, right? My kids, my older kids when they were young were, like, bearing the brunt of living with this undiagnosed, completely out of control person.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
And I think of also 'cause you know, a lot of times w- people, we just don't like the words.
sometimes when we can just do different words.
Um, but Yeah.
you've used, you've used in the past guardrails think of 'em as like, what do I, what kind of rule, what kind of thing do I need to enact in order to create Yeah.
right? And a lot of times It It a boundary.
That's what that is.
right? It's a rule.
it's a guardrail It is whatever that kind of looks like.
Now, Um, th- there are times that it, it it moves according to the situations, but keeping in um that's why.
Mm-hmm.
friend home, they're...
Both of them have extremely high energy.
So then together it is like triple-fold.
And then Jacen has some alternative music on that the bass is really thing, and they're going back and forth and I was like, "Oh, done."
I was like, "That's, boys, done."
w- "We're gonna play the quiet game, and whoever can be quiet the longest gets five bucks."
And I was like, my brain about to explode.
Music has to go down.
We need to...
100%.
ago, to be able to s- to be able to Mm-hmm.
I am about...
My brain is, it's full."
Yeah.
that's, that's the common sentence in our house is, "My brain is full.
at capacity.
And So give me, give me give me time.
Not only would I not have been able to recognize that years ago, I mean, I would've known that I was about to lose it, but I would not have known why, and Yeah.
I would've felt was guilt and shame for not being good enough.
Why, why can't I handle my own children? Why can't I handle going to the grocery store? Why can't I handle overhead lighting? Like, what is wrong with me? It was never about, well, this just is, and let's create the conditions where you can thrive.
It was always guilt and shame.
Yeah.
I'm not right.
Something's wrong with me.
And, you know, this-- we're, we're getting into territory that's, like, broader and bigger than boundaries, but boundaries is a huge part of being able to manage yourself, right? And being an adult and being able to say, "Okay, I'm about to lose my cool.
I'm gonna need everyone to just give me some space," that is so important for our kids to hear us say.
To instead of bottling it up and then, then having it come out sideways at dinner or something like that, Mm-hmm.
acknowledge it, expand the space for it, and give yourself permission to help yourself through it, that kids might not realize that that's boundary-making, but they will start to engage in that behavior and be more boundaried naturally.
No.
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
I was thinking of, like, how did I operationalize boundaries, right? Like, can see just when I didn't have any boundaries, I didn't know the effect until it was, you know, had some kind of negative effect.
now that I have kind of the boundaries there, it was like thinking, "Okay, so how did I, how did I do that?" Right? Because it really was, I felt like starting from zero.
And then my give myself permission that I even could set the boundary.
and, um, two, I had to start small and practice With safe people.
couldn't...
with safe people.
and, and honestly with myself first.
And so I, before I was even able to move it to other people, had to learn it was like to hold myself accountable to my own boundaries that I had set.
Yes.
Yeah.
like, the boundaries were all about me.
They weren't about what I gave to others.
They were all about what I gave to Yeah.
what I allowed for myself or what I didn't allow for myself.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah So when, the, the, where I really recognized that, oh girl, you have no boundaries, is when I was in prison, and I was able to get a good zoomed out view of my life.
And so when I came home, I had read a lot, I had listened to a lot of podcasts.
I knew a lot more about boundaries.
And so I knew that I needed to start implementing them, so I did.
I would say I operationalized them in a couple ways.
With myself, for sure.
I really started with my adult kids, and friends.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
I still have sort of a, a dual life, I will say, with boundaries, where with some people I'm very good at them, and I feel very safe and comfortable, saying, "No, I don't have meetings on Monday," or, "No, I'm not gonna have the bandwidth.
My social battery is really low right now."
Like, I can say that to some people and feel very, very safe.
I have a group of people that I really struggle to set boundaries with, probably because there's so much history there.
I fall into old habits without even realizing it.
It's very subconscious, right? And so, but the one thing that I have recently started doing that has been revolutionary for me, because I'm not very good at setting boundaries with some people.
I used to, if I would get a text message or an email that I knew probably needed a boundary but I didn't know what to do, I would send it to everyone.
I would forward it to all my trusted friends and be like, "Look at this.
What should I say? What should I do?" I would, like, create this whole drama about it.
Recently I have started- If I get something that doesn't sit right with me, and I know that it probably requires a boundary, I also know that I'm unable to do it, and it's because I don't trust myself to uphold it.
I have been holding on to that, not responding right away, which is huge for me.
So it is a little bit of a boundary that I'm doing of like, "I'm not going to answer this right away."
I take it to therapy and I say, "My new brain knows that my old brain cannot handle this.
I need some help.
Can you show me, help me talk through what the new Jaelene wants to do here?" And it's like this very meta experience of like new Jaelene knows this bad.
Old Jaelene wants control.
Must find help.
Yeah.
And I have designated my therapist to be that person.
I don't screenshot anymore.
I go to someone and say, "Help me do this with my new brain."
And it's been really, really hard but incredibly liberating.
Yeah.
This is like so boundaried.
active process that I'm implementing.
I am in the middle of doing this right now.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But that's so boundaried.
Yeah.
You have-- Yeah, you have you have structure Yes.
around it, Yes.
I think people think, you know, boundaries are always things that we don't want, Yeah.
Like, we only instill them things that we don't want.
I don't, I don't...
I look at it in the way of what do I want and what needs to be in place so that I have that feeling, right? Yes.
l- I like to be regulated.
I like to feel like I have capacity.
Yes.
That's so interesting because as soon as you said that, I was like, "Well, that's exactly the conversation we have about it in my therapist-- with my therapist."
She always asks me, "Okay, what do you want this relationship to be like? What will feel good?" For this relationship.
She never asks me, "What do you not want?" She always says, "How can this feel good? What would feeling good look like?" And that's how we structure it.
And I think, I'm like thinking out loud here, guys, don't really know.
But I think what she's trying to do is in that definition of the closest distance at which I can love you and myself, she is trying to help me understand what loving myself looks like.
And it is so hard because what that means is I have to move usually away from the other person a little bit, Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
I want them to know that I still love them, and I'm scared that the moving away will be interpreted as you don't love me.
Mm-hmm.
Hmm.
And I...
That feels uncomfortable, and I'm still sh...
I sh- I am...
That's probably one of my biggest struggles right now, is I still love you.
Yeah.
I just also need to love myself.
Yes.
Yeah.
absolutely.
And it is that that space for ourselves and Yeah.
having that take the priority over someone else, Oh.
of us that have...
Exactly, that have been raised, that that is honestly Yeah.
Yeah.
That's a, that's a really hard space to be in.
Yeah.
really hard space to be in.
And I'm, I'm watching, you Go My youngest daughter just became a mom this past year, and I'm watching her make the same mistakes that I made with not taking care of myself, to sleep.
And I get it, 'cause I was there, Mm-hmm.
And honestly, she probably came by it honestly, because she's watched it, right? That's what I just...
I've always done.
She watched me growing up doing that over and over again.
And unfortunately for my children, I didn't learn this until my youngest was, you know, eight, nine years old kind of thing.
And so practicing the boundaries with my children has literally been, like, the last five Yes.
piece to it.
And so, It's, like, it's so infuriating to me that although that's not what Mm-hmm.
right, that's what I did.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
um, it breaks my heart, because at some point we have to learn this.
And I...
And it's kinda like when we have the recovery conversation and, and when I worked with teenagers, and they were going through substance use and self-harm and those kinds of pieces, I said...
were, like, 14, 15 years old and, and I would always say to them, "You're so lucky to be going through this right now."
And they would look at me like I had three heads.
And I know that I've Yeah.
you know, it was like y- I- you're learning this now, and it's easier to learn as a teenager- And it's e-easier to learn as a young adult than it is to learn when you're 40 and 100%.
so very long.
And, um, but it is something you have to learn because it will take you out.
Yes.
cannot continue to give at that level.
You just can't.
have to be able to, um, put yourself first far as being able to have enough capacity to be the person that you wanna be in relationship with others.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I wrote something down about our forgiveness episode, when we were talking about sorry means you'll change, right? Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
And what it feels like to not get an apology from someone, and how do you deal with the other person not taking accountability and not being sorry or whatever.
It kind of ties these two together.
I believe a lot of people can't apologize, and change because they don't have the self-compassion for themselves, and it's really shameful and feels shame-inducing to have to say, "I'm sorry I did this thing."
Right? And, Yeah.
I have a lot of compassion for that.
I have a lot of compassion when I see someone that I know struggles with feeling shameful, because I know what shame feels like.
It's so debilitating inside.
And so I do, I have a lot of compassion in that.
And in the past- The compassion that I have for that other person who I know will feel shame if I ask them to have an honest conversation about what's happened, that has overruled my inner voice that says, "I can't do this anymore.
This relationship is harmful to me."
And I think that's why forgiveness has been so activating for me is because I have abandoned my own boundary and needs because I have so much compassion for the fact that you can't feel shame.
And I didn't know how to navigate a boundary that allowed me to stay in my compassion and allowed me to speak up for myself.
I, I think that's why forgiveness has been so hard for me is because boundaries are so hard for me, Yeah.
makes sense.
Yeah, absolutely.
and I think for me really it is just the...
So many times these concepts, boundaries, forgiveness, weaponized.
Yeah.
And, you know, I, I mean, I'm thinking of the times that Mm-hmm.
I almost looked at, uh, not almost, I did look at boundaries as Yes.
Yes.
And, having to...
And the same, same thing with forgiveness, right? In a lot of the times the forg- the, Yeah.
And so those two concepts have always...
They're, have been used together.
They've been weaponized together.
They've almost been used interchangeably sometimes as far as like, um, Well, this was my boundary and you crossed it, and so Yeah.
Um, kind of- Yeah.
yeah, piece to it.
I think that's why it's, it's so d- difficult to...
I, I think it's why it's so uncomfortable Yeah.
um, because so many people have experienced them that Yes.
That if we can look at, um, what does this mean in our lives that actually makes our lives better.
I'm thinking about, you and I have talked a lot about how when we're setting boundaries, what we've realized is that we're over-indexing on the comfort of the other person and under-indexing on our own comfort.
I would Yeah.
Really love to have a conversation with someone that is the opposite, that over-indexes on taking care of themselves and under-indexes on the other people, that maybe their boundaries are too tight, I don't know if that's the right word, or too rigid that it's the opposite.
I would just love to, like, pick that apart and have, like, a thoughtful conversation about what does that look like for you, and what does that feel like, and, and how do the people around you react to that? Because where for you and I, when we're setting boundaries, it's like a closing in a little bit and removing from.
I wonder what it feels like to have a boundary be opening up and moving towards.
And I'm, I'm trying to think of a time that I've been in that, and Besides when...
I have.
Mm-hmm.
there's...
When I looked, so when I think of, like, emotional walls, right? As far as there are a lot of times that I have done, I have, I have certain processes so that nobody can hurt me, right? Where I have had to actually open up a space to allow someone to come in because those, those walls were not only was it not letting them hurt me, that's good, but it was also not, can't, you can't go through, right? Like you, both ways it kind of cuts you off.
And so, um, being able to find boundaries around Yeah.
Yeah.
that allow for somebody to come into Yeah.
Instead of that kind of closing off.
when Todd and I first got together, we were so, both so hyper indepen- in- independent.
So hyper independent, which is definitely Yeah.
you have.
You just probably, maybe didn't look at it that way Well, watched you with that's, that's why I'm making this face right now 'cause I'm like, "Shit, I have done that and I don't wanna talk about it," 'cause I still have a lot more space to go there right now.
And, being hyper-independent feels very safe to me.
As-- Right? As, as anyone that's been through...
and it's Mm.
exhausting.
And I just am not-- And I, I-- You are right.
That is absolutely 100% I have done that, and I am really actively working on lowering the temperature on the hyper-independence.
But, that is an area that will have to also come later because I'm just not there yet.
I'm just not there yet.
I think the perfect person to do it with.
Yes.
Yeah.
um, I definitely think it is a, a full entire episode on becoming interdependent.
Yes.
Yeah.
hyper independent to interdependent, hard.
Yeah.
A- that may be A- couple yeah, seriously.
You know, it's just so interesting, and we touched on this at the beginning, that boundaries are so integral to relationships, that they, they go from what time I will answer a text and how I deal with my daughter and her apps all the way to deep, deep relationships, deep, deep feelings, love, forgiveness.
And so I would encourage people to look at boundaries as a spectrum.
I don't think when, when someone says, even when I say at the beginning of this, "I'm bad at boundaries," yet we've had different conversations today where some boundaries I am actually really good at and some boundaries I am still working on.
And so I think I'm walking away from this no longer saying I'm bad at boundaries, just saying that, um, there are some areas of my life where I could be more boundaried and some areas that I'm really good at it.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
absolutely.
Absolutely.
And what do we want more of in our life instead of Yes.
right? Creating the boundary to create more of what we want Yeah.
in our Yeah.
I think it's like I love boundaries are kindness in friendships.
It's like communication is kindness in relationships, right? If you wanna have a relationship with me, I'd like to have one with you, and this is, this is how we do it.
This is the, the fence around our playground, so to speak.
Yep.
we can stay in it, we're gonna have a great time together.
Yep.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
And that's honestly how I look at it with the, with my, um, with my kiddos too, Yeah.
as it used...
Yeah.
Uh, Yeah.
I was worried.
I was worried about this conversation, too.
I thought I was gonna cry, of which gonna I almost did, but you know, I like shoved it down in me and was like, "Save that for the shower, Jaelene."
It's my favorite place to cry.
of, that's the part of expansive boundaries that we're trying to create within our systems to allow those feelings.
Oh, my gosh, I love it.
Did we close this out? I think so.
I think we've said the things to say.
Okay.
Love you.
Mean I love you.
it.
Bye.
Thank you so much for joining us this week and our episode on boundaries.
I hope you've enjoyed it.
We'll be back next week with the final episode of season one.
We'll be doing a season recap and giving you a preview into what season two will look like.
Thanks so much for joining us.
Have a great week