Latest / UK Column Radio / Globalism's grip has gutted genuine grub | Jerm Warfare

Transcript

Globalism's grip has gutted genuine grub | Jerm Warfare · UK Column Radio

0:35
None. So I'm busy eating bull tongue.
0:41
You guys know what bull tongue is over there in the UK?
0:44
No, not in the UK. Yeah, there's, there's, there's
0:47
a bit of it here. There's more and more of it.
0:49
I mean, it's not going to be, it's not going to be the same,
0:52
but, but it has been, it's been something that's, yeah, been
0:56
going on for. I mean, I can think of somebody
0:59
who started it up in the Isle of Lewis of all places, in the
1:01
Outer Hebrides at least 25 years ago.
1:06
And I know there were South African shops in London and
1:09
whatnot who'd been selling it forever.
1:11
But, but no, by and large, it's still in terms of sort of cured
1:15
meats. It's, it's European variants
1:19
that people are mostly eating. It's weird so.
1:22
Yeah, it's weird, though Bolton is obviously a South African
1:25
thing. The equivalent would be I
1:27
suppose beef jerky, but for some weird reason nobody can can
1:32
match Bolton. I I'm biased obviously because I
1:35
think Bolton was better, but most people that I speak to
1:38
agree. I'm not sure why though, it's
1:43
not that difficult to make. Yeah, no, no, it's, I mean, it
1:46
really is very, very easy and and yeah, I really, I'm not
1:52
quite sure why people don't. I suppose if you're going to do
1:54
it yourself, people just regard it as being a bit of a faff,
1:57
which I suppose it is depending on how you do it.
2:00
But once you've set it up, it's it's very straightforward.
2:03
I'm only, I'm only telling you that I'm eating Voltong because
2:06
I know that Tim Noakes and the low carb guys will will agree
2:10
and give us the thumbs up. I'm trying to hit 2026.
2:13
I'm trying to hit 2026 on a good note here, Mike.
2:17
Yeah, OK. Well, I'll just look.
2:20
For it though, yes, absolutely this is.
2:24
Considered hyper process though. It's not hyper process, it's
2:29
just dried, yeah. Yeah.
2:31
So, I mean, that's all it is. Yeah, well, Oh yeah, I suppose
2:34
if it's going into a packet you can't really tell, but that's
2:36
it. But it would be No, but I mean,
2:38
it's fairly easy to make though. No, there's fairly easy.
2:40
I mean, you can. You can just cure it yourself
2:42
and then hang it in, hang it up in your garage.
2:45
Well, you, yeah, I mean, here you wouldn't really get much
2:49
effect hanging it in your garage because it's just so cold and
2:52
damp. But that's the that's the only
2:53
thing here. You do have to introduce heat.
2:55
So you'd either have to have a sort of an oven of sorts or the,
2:59
the basic, the really basic method, which I used to do years
3:01
ago is to have a big cardboard box with a light bulb in it and
3:04
that does that. That's enough.
3:06
But it's just weird. Otherwise here it's, it would be
3:08
right. You could do it in the summer,
3:09
but but here now, there's no way.
3:13
It would just sit there soggy for months.
3:17
I remember when I was in Sydney, I was with some Australian
3:21
friends and they said, well, because you're South African,
3:23
let us take you somewhere. And we ended up going to, it's
3:26
literally called the South African shop.
3:28
And I had no idea that some of those products in there are
3:31
South African. I don't know if it's the same
3:33
for you. If you know what is a British
3:36
product and when you go somewhere else, you go, oh, I
3:38
didn't know that that was British.
3:41
Yes, I'm not sure that happened so much now.
3:43
I mean, I think in in the the grand sort of spread of
3:52
international dishes, I think stuff that has been claimed as
3:56
British is has either been rejected by other cultures and
4:01
cuisines who has been adopted or adapted, perhaps even by
4:06
accident. Like like the advent of
4:09
Worcestershire sauce. I don't know if you you get
4:12
Worcester sauce in. How do you say it?
4:15
Did you say Worcestershire? It was, yeah.
4:18
I mean, when it was first labeled, it was called
4:20
Worcestershire, but it but it's just become known colloquially
4:23
as Worcester sauce. But yeah, because that was a
4:27
that was a mistake. That was a say.
4:29
The story goes that was a Victorian effort at replicating
4:34
a Curry that had been very popular in a household in India.
4:37
And they'd moved back to England and the head of the household
4:41
had had asked his native cook in India for the for the recipe,
4:46
but I think it really only got the ingredients and had asked
4:49
his cook in England to make it. And it turned out to be
4:52
absolutely nothing like it. And rather than being chucked in
4:54
the bin, for some bizarre reason, it was kept in a larder.
4:58
And the source sort of matured and became what is now known as
5:04
what's the source say the story goes.
5:07
I mean, who knows that something else entirely might have
5:09
happened. And I dare say that's not how
5:11
they make it now. It sounds like we're just
5:14
talking superficially, but there actually is a a deeper thread
5:18
here. And that is I remember when I
5:20
was travelling through France and in Paris I couldn't really
5:26
find anything that was French. It was just all international
5:30
and I only discovered French of anything.
5:35
Ready was when I went down to the South past Toulouse and all
5:38
the way down to the Canal de MIDI there by the Bond and all
5:40
those, all those places, because I didn't want to.
5:43
I didn't want to have anything that was international.
5:45
I wanted something that was French, whether it was food or a
5:49
restaurant or whatever it might, it might have been.
5:51
And this is one of the major issues with with, I don't want
5:57
to say globalism, but globalization.
6:00
I think those are two different two different words.
6:03
But it's it's this, it's this idea that that, that everything
6:06
needs to be everywhere. And it just this, there's a
6:10
sense of sovereignty and uniqueness that gets lost when
6:14
you when you just have Burger King everywhere, for example.
6:18
Yeah, but Burger King is not food.
6:20
Let's just make that clear. And McDonald's is not food.
6:24
Now, I'm not sure that I agree with this point because, you
6:27
know, I think if we're being honest, Britain is not the
6:31
culinary centre of the world. I mean, there's, there's
6:34
obviously there are good chefs in Britain, but I'm talking
6:37
about in terms of traditional fare.
6:40
And it would be very limiting to to only be maybe I'm wrong about
6:50
this, but but you know, I don't think I could live without
6:53
certain products from from foreign shores.
6:58
Certainly as a matter of principle, of course, would be
7:02
enthusiastic that no matter what form of food we eat, we source
7:06
the ingredients where possible locally.
7:11
I mean, that is, no, not really. I mean, that is linked to what
7:16
I'm talking about, because then what you're talking about
7:19
actually is, is localization as opposed to globalization.
7:25
It's just, well, I mean, no matter what label you put on it,
7:27
it's common sense because I mean, you know, it's supporting
7:31
communities. It's about community at the end
7:32
of the day. And, and you know, that we've,
7:34
we've talked about this before, but this is, this is without
7:39
doubt one of the reasons we're in the pickle we're in is
7:41
because we have allowed ourselves to, you know, because
7:45
families have have, you know, families split up and move
7:49
elsewhere for jobs, because it's impossible these days for people
7:53
to sort of live where they were born because inevitably there
7:59
are, there isn't the economy there for, for people, Then,
8:03
then they move and that splits up families, splits up
8:05
communities. And well, we need to, we need to
8:08
relearn that. I think that's that's absolutely
8:11
crucial to to the future. Charles, sorry I interrupted
8:15
you. Oh.
8:16
No, I I was only going to contend Mike's point about
8:19
needing things from from further afield, unless you're talking
8:23
about Northern Ireland, in which case I would define.
8:26
Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. But no, I mean, I, I think this
8:33
is, this actually does speak to a serious point, though.
8:37
We know the United Kingdom has definitely got a terrible
8:39
reputation for, for food, but I think that is largely because we
8:44
have just yielded to corporate and international pressure to
8:49
churn out mass produced junk in the same form absolutely
8:53
everywhere. And, and again, the point is,
8:56
it's, it's not food. It's not that it's different,
8:58
It's just not, not actually food.
9:00
So we've moved away from food, but in doing so, we've
9:03
completely forgotten what foods we do have here.
9:05
And I mean, even meat, you know, how often do people eat pigeon
9:09
or rabbit or any fish that isn't cod or haddock?
9:13
I mean, the, the, the, the variety here is is huge.
9:17
Yeah. Of course we don't have stuff
9:19
particularly in terms of fruit and certain vegetables that you
9:22
can import. But but actually, you know,
9:25
again, this is an interesting 1, isn't it?
9:28
And, and I know this is this is potentially going down an
9:30
enormous rabbit hole, but if you go back to what was being done
9:33
at Chatsworth by Paxton, Joseph Paxton in the 18th century in
9:39
the advent of the Cavendish banana and this and the other
9:41
so, so growing conditions and this and this is a this is a
9:44
very divisive issue because you look at what James Dyson is
9:47
doing now, he's made billions with his hoovers and hair
9:49
dryers. And now he's going into
9:51
agriculture. He's the largest landowner in in
9:54
the country, agricultural landowner in the United Kingdom.
9:57
Yeah, he is. Yeah.
9:57
And, and, and you could say that's, and I will, I will
10:02
qualify this. You could say that's a good
10:03
thing because to a certain extent he has his head screwed
10:07
on. He talks about reducing chemical
10:10
inputs. He talks about not taking
10:14
subsidy. He talks about a lot of things
10:16
that do make sense. But of course, ultimately,
10:19
exactly like with his businesses to date, he is driven by the
10:22
necessity for profit. And I'm not saying that's a bad
10:25
thing, but if that, if that tips the balance in favour of doing
10:29
things that are not actually going to align with your chat
10:34
about reducing chemical inputs and whatnot, then you know which
10:37
way it's going to go. But I mean, so far, he, I think
10:39
a lot of what he is producing is being done in a way that is
10:42
significantly better than the model for the past nearly 100
10:47
years. So so I mean he he certainly has
10:48
made a difference, but but sorry, I've I've slightly from
10:54
the point I. Think it's fine.
10:56
I mean, I think, I think the point is that there is there's
10:59
an absolutely enormous opportunity to to be producing
11:02
really interesting diverse types of food and actually using what
11:07
is there. I mean, nature does provide a
11:10
huge amount of food that actually you don't really even
11:12
need to to do anything about. And, and people have just been
11:17
conditioned and thinking, right, OK, it's time to go to the
11:20
supermarket again. You know, I wonder what they've
11:22
caught for me this week. And and that's again, I know
11:26
there will be a lot of people thinking, they will think, well,
11:27
it's just not realistic for me. I'm in X place.
11:30
I can't do that. OK, absolutely.
11:33
Fair enough. But that doesn't mean to say you
11:34
can't be in touch with somebody that is doing that or you can't
11:37
have a cooperative or you can't have a syndicate that does go
11:40
out and do whatever these activities are.
11:44
So again, it's like with anything, there is probably
11:50
either more that you could do or something that you could do
11:52
differently. And that's, I'm not, not sort of
11:53
throwing down the challenge, but I'm just saying, you know, if
11:55
you are fed up with the, with the global corporate influence
11:59
in the way that's affecting either the offerings that are
12:02
available to you or the impacts that it has on the environment
12:05
or health or any of those things.
12:06
Well, you know, just have a head scratch and, and think about all
12:09
the different things that that are out there.
12:11
And, and you don't have to, you know, and, and a good starting
12:13
point actually is to just go back through literature, just
12:16
reading books that were written more than 100 years ago and
12:19
reading what people ate is very interesting because of course
12:21
they weren't getting stuff shipped in from New Zealand that
12:26
day. So, yeah, I think, I think we
12:29
could be, you know, we absolutely could have a, a
12:32
renaissance in in the United Kingdom, but there are so many,
12:37
so many forces driving against that.
12:39
So I'm not going to disagree with any of that, Charles,
12:42
although you did perhaps, you know, the implication perhaps
12:46
was that I was buying stuff from supermarkets.
12:48
But anyway, that's, that's neither here nor there.
12:50
The the issue, the issue for me, of course, is, you know, things,
12:54
things that would absolutely be considered luxuries.
12:57
I would, I'll acknowledge, you know, Parma ham, Parmesan
13:01
cheese, red wine, these kinds of things are and, and I realize
13:04
that there, there is a, a winery not far away from you.
13:07
But but my question is whether and I'm sure the the product is
13:11
is pretty good, but it's not quite the same as it.
13:15
It's not the same, but then again, that's, you know, do we
13:18
have to be slightly less sniffy about this?
13:21
You, you have a taste, you have a taste for whatever such a
13:25
thing is. You know, we, we just have to
13:27
acknowledge that we're talking about something different.
13:28
I mean that that's the way grapes are.
13:30
You get what you're given and say the wine that's produced
13:33
here isn't, it's not AI would argue it's not a question of
13:35
quality. I, I, I feel confident that
13:37
certainly the, the vineyard that you're referring to that's been
13:40
well established in, I think it's just in Worcestershire
13:44
actually. It has, you know, it's been
13:47
doing great wines for years and that's, that is the best
13:50
possible result that you can create with those grapes.
13:53
So it's just a, it's a taste thing.
13:55
But I, no, I mean, I totally acknowledge it, of course that's
13:58
absolutely the case. But haven't we been spoiled by
14:03
this and sort of, you know, in a way unconsciously thinking,
14:06
well, yeah, I suppose, you know, I prefer this, so I should get
14:09
that. I don't know, but I don't know.
14:10
Then then wine. Wine keeps.
14:13
And so actually, is it, is it such a bad thing that wine in
14:20
particular travels? I don't know.
14:24
We, so I mean, we are trying our best to support local and this a
14:30
farm not too far from us. I might have told you this
14:33
previously, but they deliver every week a basket of fresh
14:39
vegetables. You can't choose.
14:41
They just bring a whole pile of vegetables because it's the way
14:44
it grows. It's very organic and one sure
14:48
sign of good quality vegetables is that it goes off very
14:53
quickly. You don't want it to, to, to
14:57
halt, but it does potentially become more expensive unless you
15:02
get creative with the with what you do with it.
15:04
And another farm that I discovered just a few days ago
15:08
is on the other side of the country, which we're going to
15:10
start supporting. It's a guy who adds no
15:14
chemicals, injections, vaccines, anything to his, his, his
15:18
cattle. And what he did was he imported
15:22
the Japanese black wag Wagyu bulls, and he has interbred them
15:28
with Angus bulls, cows. And so now he's got this.
15:39
Anything's possible these? Days they identify and so he's
15:45
and I've tasted his his steaks and they are incredible,
15:50
absolutely incredible. And you can taste when something
15:55
is more organic. And when I say organic, I don't
15:58
mean organic TM now, I mean actually organic, but it does
16:02
come again at a bit of a cost. But I love what you said, you
16:05
know, at the end of last year, Mike, you know, you've got to
16:07
embrace inconvenience. And so if something costs a bit
16:09
more, it is more inconvenient, but there actually is a long
16:14
term benefit. This issue of cost is, is a
16:18
really important one. You know, we, we have been
16:22
taught that what we want in life is 3 holidays a year and
16:27
entertainment, going to the pub every weekend, all this kind of
16:30
stuff. And we've been taught this is,
16:32
this isn't something that we actually wanted, but this is
16:34
what we've been told that we want.
16:36
And, and for some reason, we've jumped on the bandwagon and, and
16:40
so we've been told that we've got to spend the minimum that we
16:43
can on the, the fundamentals of life and use the surplus, as
16:48
much of the surplus as we can possibly find for entertainment
16:51
and all these other kinds of things.
16:53
Now, Charles was talking about what people ate in the past, but
16:58
we also spent a much greater proportion of our income on, on
17:02
food. And at the end of the day, these
17:05
are lifestyle choices that we make.
17:07
Do we want to maintain a healthy lifestyle for longer and
17:12
therefore where do we want to put our resources?
17:15
Can we find forms of entertainment that that perhaps
17:20
are less propagandizing than going to the cinema or going to,
17:25
you know, or watching the latest marginally pornographic DEI
17:31
inspired play or listening to the buying CDs full of, of
17:36
sexualized, hyper sexualized content music musical console
17:42
called musical content, right. So, so, you know, these are,
17:45
these are the choices that we have to make.
17:46
And and you know what, it's it's sort of, I always come back to
17:51
this point of, of people that say, what can I do?
17:54
And, and these are the kinds of things that we need to be.
17:56
These are the kinds of decisions that we need to be making.
17:58
And I think, and you know, so I, I would say to you that if you
18:04
have the opportunity to spend more and get what you're
18:07
getting, then that's, that that is a good decision in my
18:10
opinion. Totally agree.
18:13
And if, if nobody heard it the first 16 times I mentioned it,
18:17
then it goes straight to Angus Macintosh's point about nutrient
18:21
density. And, and again, it is a, it is a
18:24
conditioning exercise. It is to do with being told, you
18:27
know, three meals a day, get your 5A day, get a very balanced
18:31
diet, a varied diet, this sort of stuff.
18:33
But of course that what that means is you're eating stuff
18:37
which puts you into that routine and, and it's a, it becomes a
18:43
cycle hunger. It becomes a, well, semi
18:46
psychological issue. It's also a blood sugar issue,
18:50
largely due to the fact that people are eating highly
18:52
processed starch based products which encourage that feeling.
18:58
But again, anecdotal. I don't have the paper to back
19:02
this up, but I'm sure Tim Noakes does.
19:05
If you eat a diet that consists of stuff that costs more per
19:12
pound in weight but provides a much bigger hit in terms of
19:16
nutritional content, then then you feel less hungry.
19:20
And, and you know, there is, there absolutely is a
19:23
psychological element to that in that it takes quite a while to
19:27
adjust to eating what is by volume less.
19:32
But in my own experience, and, and certainly plenty of other
19:37
people that I know who do similar things, everybody
19:40
arrives at the same point, which is that you, you realise in
19:42
actual fact that you're going through the motions of eating
19:46
because it's sort of prescribed by societal norms that that's
19:50
what you do. But in actual fact, eating twice
19:52
a day or even once a day. And I know I remember your chat
19:55
with Ivor Cummings, you know, he was, he was talking about
19:59
exactly that, exactly like John Kirk, who I did an interview UK
20:03
column raw truth. He's a raw milk dairy farmer.
20:06
And he he basically adopted his diet to suit that of his cows in
20:11
so far as he took all the all the grains out of it and then
20:15
and then concentrated on just eating one very protein rich.
20:19
Meal a day. And yes, I know there'd be lots
20:21
of people out there saying, well, they exist perfectly well
20:22
on a, on a vegetarian diet, fine, whatever suits.
20:25
But the point is that it's the, the, the higher the quality.
20:29
Yes, that is a higher price. But actually, overall, my
20:32
contention is that you're spending less money and that's
20:36
the important thing. And also you're spending less
20:38
money in the short term. You're certainly spending less
20:39
money in the long term because you will not be.
20:43
Fingers crossed you know all the circumstances you can't
20:47
necessarily dictate over but but but in law by and large you will
20:51
not be infirm and unfit and unwell in the way that you might
20:55
be if you if you persist with the cheaper non food stuff.
21:00
And even better, you'll be conscious of the fact that
21:03
you're not giving money to craft, yes, and to Nestle and
21:07
the Kellogg's and these types of corporations.
21:10
Yeah. And of course that therefore
21:12
with your dime, they're not going to be polluting our very
21:16
environment. You know, this, this and I and I
21:18
do find it's, it's still what it will forever rankle.
21:22
You know, the way in which the legitimate, totally legitimate
21:25
environmental concerns about destroying the soil that we say
21:29
vitally need has been subsumed by the climate narrative.
21:35
It's just a disgrace. And these people who are
21:37
claiming to take the sort of moral or ethical high ground and
21:40
yet do not make that distinction between those two things, it is
21:44
flagrant dishonesty. It's absolutely reprehensible
21:47
because because it is. It is in an effort to manipulate
21:49
people for gain. I've been trying very hard for
21:53
the last couple of minutes to find a Segway into a talking
21:57
point that I told you I wanted to to mention and I just cannot
22:00
find the Segway. Well, I I presume you're wanting
22:04
to, I'm presuming you're wanting to establish some kind of farm
22:06
smallholding on the moon or something.
22:08
I this. This the Segway.
22:13
But yes, a couple a couple days ago, maybe a week ago, I saw the
22:18
the big news NASA sending for astronauts to fly around the
22:22
moon. Now I'm not particularly
22:24
interested in whether or not that is real or I mean, that's a
22:29
different discussion all together, but I'm wondering why
22:30
now, who benefits? What is the reason you know is?
22:35
Is this a? Is this a a deflection from from
22:38
big talking points do you think? Well, first, first of all, I
22:44
would say that of course a lot of people are going to take a
22:49
conspiratorial view of, of these types of events.
22:55
You know, at the end of the day, there are how many million
22:59
people in in the United States, 330 million or something like
23:02
that. Take any country, it's you've
23:05
got, you've got large populations.
23:07
Not everybody is, is aligned with any particular agenda.
23:11
And so, so some people have their own agendas.
23:14
I'm quite happy to, to consider the possibility that that people
23:18
within that organization are actually interested in doing
23:22
what they're saying that they're going to do.
23:23
I'm not going to suggest for one second that there aren't people
23:27
in the political world or the media world that that that
23:30
wouldn't take advantage of that or that there isn't
23:33
infiltration. There isn't an effort to, to, to
23:35
push certain efforts in certain directions.
23:38
These kinds of things of course happen.
23:41
But you know, the, the main issue with, with this type of
23:44
discussion, Jeremy, is that that we're not there and we are not
23:48
party to, to what's going on. So we can only look in from the
23:51
outside and speculate. And, and, and if we just take a
23:55
very, very small example at the people that are out there at the
23:58
moment that are looking in at the UK column and making certain
24:01
decisions about it and saying these things publicly and
24:04
they're so far off the mark, it's unbelievable.
24:07
Then I find it really difficult to sort of look at an
24:10
organization like NASA or any other organization and, and
24:14
reach a conclusion based on what I see on the Internet.
24:18
So, so you know, it's, it's, it's, I don't know the answer to
24:24
it. And certainly, I'm quite 100%
24:27
sure that that, you know, for and for a lot of people, it will
24:31
be a diversion, partly because they are so concerned, so
24:40
troubled by current events and, and anything that that is
24:45
offering any kind of, you know, diversion is going to be grabbed
24:50
at. But also because anything that's
24:53
going on in the world is going to be grabbed by, by people
24:58
that, you know, that's the old thing.
25:00
It's a good day to bury, bury bad news or whatever that that
25:04
tactic is used in in many, many ways, not just, I mean that,
25:08
that that phrase came to popular notice following 911, but it
25:15
doesn't have to be events like 911 that are good days to bury
25:17
bad news. It can be stuff that is just as
25:19
you say, purely that might grab people's attention and and take
25:24
their their minds in a in a direction.
25:26
So, so I don't think there's an answer to your question.
25:29
It's basically what I'm saying. OK, well.
25:35
Give it a go, Charles. May have a different view.
25:38
Well, first of all, when we have this, when we rehash this
25:40
conversation in in years to come, there are two segues you
25:44
could have used, one of which is that there are there are
25:47
folklore, I mean, and I dare say you know, all folklore is rooted
25:50
somewhere, but there is absolutely folklore that that
25:53
speaks to certain farming practices at at a particular
25:57
moon State, so. Particularly.
26:01
Doing stuff at night and whether that has an effect on what type
26:04
of weeds will come up or whether weeds will come up at all and,
26:07
and general sort of fertilization things and, and
26:09
that kind of stuff as well as obviously sort of menstrual
26:13
cycles of livestock. So there's that one.
26:16
Then there's the my preferred story, which is about the rural
26:22
folk of Wiltshire, which is the county to the South of
26:25
Gloucestershire where I am in the UK.
26:28
And years ago when illicit booty in the form of possibly actually
26:37
wine, I can't remember drinking of some sort was being moved
26:40
around the around the country without tax.
26:43
And the way that a particular Wiltshire village did this was
26:46
that it would be, it would be hidden undercover of darkness in
26:50
the village pond in barrels, but weighted down.
26:53
And then at a safe time, the villagers would then go out with
26:57
their long Rakes and go into the, into the water to fish the
27:02
barrels out. And, and one night they were
27:05
caught in the act by the excise man who found them in the pond
27:11
and said, well, what, what the heck are you up to?
27:13
And they thought, well, I mean, we're known to be simple country
27:16
folk. So they'll say, well, we're,
27:18
we're trying to rake the moon out of the pond because you
27:21
could see the moon's reflection in the in the water and they
27:25
were trying to rake it out of the pond.
27:27
True story. And that, and that's, that's why
27:30
people from Wiltshire referred to as moonrakers.
27:32
It, it's stuck to this day. So that's what that's where
27:34
Moonraker. So those are your segues.
27:37
I think on the moon thing specifically, I think and I'm
27:43
not suggesting that one that I know which one drives the other.
27:47
But in terms of mutual benefit and the synergy between the two,
27:52
to me this is all part of the war and surveillance
27:57
architecture. And if you look at the
28:02
organizations that are involved with say the current NASA
28:07
Artemis project and what else is going on in the defense arena,
28:13
but also specifically and SpaceX is the obvious 1.
28:17
The whole idea that these low Earth orbit satellites are
28:22
providing A capability that can be used by twinned sort of
28:28
civilian and military organizations, intelligence and
28:32
all the rest of it. And so I think as I say, whether
28:36
the plan has been right, Well, let's make another go for the
28:40
moon and enthuse people in space and normalize the whole idea of
28:43
using space as a domain, whether it be for the gathering of sort
28:50
of scientific evidence or, or whatever.
28:52
The point is that there then seems nothing odd about the fact
28:56
that Elon Musk and you know, Lockheed Martin and all the rest
29:00
of them are being seen to be driving what is all part of the
29:07
same effort. And part of that, as well as the
29:10
sort of this idea of exploration is, well, you know, we are, we
29:14
are also keeping you safe. And, and I mean, I've, I've
29:18
reported on space stuff quite a bit for UK column over the last
29:22
couple of years, not not very recently, but I'm overdue
29:25
actually, because there is a lot more going on.
29:26
But, and I would contextualize this.
29:29
I, I mentioned it, I think in News extra a couple of weeks ago
29:33
over just before Christmas. I but totally by chance, ended
29:37
up having a face to face conversation with a, with a
29:39
high-ranking officer in the NATO command structure.
29:44
And you know, I didn't exactly put my cards on the table in
29:49
terms of why I was necessarily interested.
29:52
They're asking. But then again, he wasn't
29:54
holding back. There was absolutely nothing
29:55
confidential about the conversation.
29:57
And first of all, he was absolutely certain that there
30:00
will be war with Russia. And secondly, in terms of how
30:05
that was going to come about, he was very explicit in talking
30:08
about the effective reliance upon corporations in a way that
30:14
has never been done before. You know, previously somebody
30:17
makes you a rifle, you buy it, you take ownership of it, that's
30:21
the end of it. They, the manufacturer retains
30:23
no control. We've, we've absolutely moved a
30:27
lot further on from that and the, the control exercised over
30:33
any equipment, particularly stuff that flies up into space
30:37
or whatever people want to call it, you know, we're entering
30:40
into, into a very, very different thing.
30:41
And, and so he was, he was, he was very simple in saying that
30:47
that space and cyber all sort of part of the same thing were in
30:53
effect going to form the larger part of the battlefield.
30:57
And, and I see that as being, I see the, the, the, the space
31:02
slash moon issue as being part of that.
31:05
And, and in a way, as far as the optics go and the and getting
31:09
people excited about something that then sort of leads into a
31:13
Cold War, I mean, it, it is going back to the late 50s and
31:16
60s in a way. I mean not not absolutely the
31:20
same, but but I think there are great similarities.
31:23
I mean, what you're saying echoes what Catherine Austin
31:26
Fitz has spoken about. She's been talking about the the
31:30
battle for space for for years now.
31:33
And I mean I think. The United States and the UK
31:37
have the respective Space Command sort of things.
31:40
And, and I was, you know, if, if we think that Trump's going to
31:43
stop at Greenland, then then we've got, you know.
31:49
Yeah, did. Well, did you?
31:54
No, I lost. I lost.
31:55
Yeah, sorry. Did you miss that?
31:56
No, I said, I said if you think Trump is going to stop at
31:58
Greenland, then you know, we're, we're, we're a bit naive.
32:04
But I mean, I think what the, the point that you're making,
32:06
Charles, is very well made. I mean, the, the fact that they
32:10
are quote UN quote, flying around the moon.
32:13
That's all the great, the positive uplifting rainbows and
32:17
unicorns. Wow, Look at what we're doing
32:19
mean. Meanwhile, the the the the the
32:22
cyber space control grid is being advanced.
32:28
Yes. Yeah.
32:30
Look, I suppose part of the point of what I was part of the
32:33
point I was trying to make badly perhaps was, was that that
32:36
within these organized even within SpaceX and you know, we
32:40
have been making the point that SpaceX is effectively A defence
32:43
company for a long time. But within SpaceX, the people
32:49
that are actually working there, it's, it's the same in the
32:51
financial system as well. The people that are working
32:53
within these institutions, I think, you know, they're
32:55
enthused by what they're doing. They're positive about what
32:58
they're doing. They don't think about it in
32:59
these terms. There are, there are other
33:02
people absolutely with, without question, think about these
33:05
things in these terms. And certainly the, as, as I say,
33:08
the media will present stuff in, in a certain way, while other
33:13
stuff is going on in the background.
33:15
And I'm, I'm actually, I absolutely agree with with
33:18
Charles's take on on that the, the, the fight for low Earth
33:26
orbit. I think we are going to come
33:29
back to this issue of, of weaponry in space and we're
33:36
going to see huge amounts of defence, so-called defence
33:39
budget going into this type of, of operation.
33:42
And and yeah, I think Charles pointed that Artemis and this
33:46
type of thing will be used to to enthuse people in that
33:51
direction. I think is is a real danger.
33:55
Yeah, I mean, it'd be very interesting to see which way it
33:57
does play out. Because in actual fact, one of
34:00
the reports I gave on Wednesday's news programme this
34:04
week was about the, you know, the, the the conscription
34:08
narrative, conscription war narrative and a couple of
34:11
stories from the Ministry of Defence about new programmes to
34:17
either provide space for a particular regiment.
34:21
But the one, the one I'm thinking of is the cyber.
34:23
There's there's going to be a new, I think it was called Cyber
34:26
and Electromagnetic Command, 240 odd strong regiment.
34:32
And and again, talking about people, you know, a university
34:35
degree in operating drones within a military setting.
34:40
But you see people have to have some sort of a dream about that.
34:45
You're not, you're not. I don't think you're going to be
34:48
considering whether you'd be a Carpenter or an artist or
34:54
butcher. And then you say, oh, I'll tell
34:55
you what, I'll just be a drone, a military drone operator.
34:59
So I think there does have to be a sort of Hollywoodization of
35:04
all of this and you know, the the Top Gun effect.
35:07
So sticking, sticking people in a in a rocket and saying, you
35:11
know, come on, let's get involved in space.
35:13
I know it sounds silly, but but I think it's, I think it has a
35:16
monumental effect. And and I think this again will
35:19
be will be played upon massively.
35:22
It's magical. Yeah, yeah.
35:26
We, we can't exclude the, the gaming industry from this by the
35:29
way, because, because that, that without question in my mind has
35:33
been about indoctrinating people into this remote, this remote
35:39
warfare agenda. And you know, if if we look at
35:43
Spacex's and and Starlink in particular, that that of course
35:48
was sold to people as, as you know, this great way for fast
35:52
Internet access from remote areas that has already been
35:56
deployed in Ukraine on a battlefield.
36:00
Charles, I'd be interested in your thoughts on where this low
36:03
Earth orbit satellite, these low Earth orbit satellite Nets go,
36:08
because obviously the UK government bought into one web
36:14
at the point that it was going bankrupt for specifically the
36:17
same type of capability to to to throw a load of low Earth orbit
36:21
satellites. Is this about building the, the
36:25
the the communications network for a global drone?
36:30
You're a remote drone control system.
36:33
I think that would be that would be 1 application.
36:35
I, I have to say on the technical side of it, I'm, I'm
36:39
not, I'm not very clued up as to what could happen.
36:44
But I think I can't see any reason why there would be a
36:48
limit. And I think the the the sort of
36:51
the object of specific concern, which I keep banging on about is
36:55
this element of or this this conundrum really who is in
37:00
control if AI? Well, yeah, exactly.
37:05
Well, you see, even grok the US, the DoD has has engaged Grok AI
37:13
to to do quite what I don't know.
37:16
But I mean, that's that's the direction we're we're going in.
37:19
No, but really what I was going to say was that these are, these
37:22
are funded, you know, these projects are funded by
37:26
government or, or specifically military, the military
37:31
departments of governments, but they may have some control over
37:37
them, but actually by no means all.
37:40
And so the, the, the data collection and dissemination is,
37:48
you know, can go potentially anywhere.
37:51
And so I, I don't, I mean, yes, I think the, I think drones and,
37:56
and whatever's coming next, because the, the rate of change
38:03
in this area, I think is absolutely phenomenal.
38:06
I sort of, you know, in a way, I feel like we don't really know
38:10
the half of it. We might, we might criticize
38:13
the, the armed forces of the NATO countries for being
38:18
completely behind the curve of their own making in saying that
38:22
they're going to defeat Russia without any of the things they
38:27
might need to do it. But in actual fact, behind the
38:29
scenes, going back to what's being developed by the so-called
38:34
defense industry, I think there's I think there's going to
38:37
be a lot of stuff that's going to come out in a short space of
38:39
time. That would be pretty alarming.
38:41
And well, as if it isn't already.
38:43
But but you know, and I'm sure that that will that will
38:46
absolutely be tied into the to the low Earth orbit capability.
38:52
I can't. I can't.
38:53
See how it wouldn't? Be.
38:54
Catherine argues that a lot of that falls under what she calls
38:57
the black budget, which which which which forms part of the
39:04
missing trillions that she always talks about.
39:10
Yeah. I mean, maybe, I mean that could
39:14
be the case. I think, I think a lot of it's
39:17
quite overt, but but yes, I mean, I dare say that that that
39:23
could, that could well explain sort of certain amounts of, of
39:28
missing money. And, and even if, you know, it's
39:30
not missing, it's sort of been made-up, it's created from
39:35
nowhere. So in a way, same, same
39:38
difference. But yes, I mean, the, the sheer
39:41
cost of of these projects and the fact that yet again, it is,
39:46
I mean, you know, the Elon Musk is such an obvious example, but
39:49
it is just perfectly extraordinary that.
39:52
Adam is. Pockets can be aligned to such A
39:55
to quite such an extent. I don't know if he knows, but
40:00
there's a tug of war happening between Starlink and South
40:03
Africa. So Starling.
40:05
Starling is not available in South Africa at all, but it's
40:09
available in all our neighboring countries.
40:11
And the reason for that is because Elon Musk, once his
40:15
rules applied, if Starling opens in South Africa and the South
40:18
African government says no, no, you follow our rules.
40:22
And so basically this is this is, it's a stand off.
40:26
And it's very interesting to see how that's going to play out.
40:30
It might be a good thing that our, that our government is, is,
40:33
is trying to, you know, not play on Elon's turf.
40:39
Yeah, I think it's a it's a really interesting one.
40:42
I mean, I don't know how how it's progressed because he was
40:44
trying to use Tesla as a lever with a with a.
40:48
Yeah, we don't have, we don't have Tesla either.
40:49
Yeah, exactly. But that, but that's what he was
40:51
trying to do. He was trying to force his way
40:52
in on the on the the black white company ownership thing.
40:55
He was trying to bend the rules by saying, right, well, I'll
40:59
invest, you know, X into a sorry, not X because
41:03
everything's X with him, but Y into into, yeah, exactly into a
41:11
Tesla battery capability. And I think he was, you know, he
41:14
was just shown the door vote for how much longer I I don't know,
41:17
but it will be very interesting to see Mike.
41:19
Sorry I I cut in. Yeah, I was.
41:21
I was just wondering because I don't know enough about this
41:24
particular story. You know, why?
41:27
On what basis are they pushing back?
41:28
Are they pushing back against him?
41:30
Is it because he's not paying them enough money or what's
41:32
what's the reason? Well, the initially.
41:35
It was because he was the wrong colour.
41:38
That's the yeah. So that's the absolutely the.
41:40
Reason or is that is that the the the public well.
41:44
I mean, that was certainly on the on the legal front, that
41:48
was, that was how it was reported as.
41:52
No, but it's obviously not true. It's obviously not true because
41:56
if if that were the case, so many other companies wouldn't
41:59
have opened here. Yeah, exactly.
42:01
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
42:05
So yes, I mean, there will be, there will absolutely be more to
42:09
it. I, I, I don't know.
42:11
I mean, looking at where else Star Link isn't, is it?
42:18
Is it possible that it's been that the whole thing's been
42:20
completely misreported and that it's not that South Africa won't
42:25
have it, it's that Musk won't put it there because he
42:30
disapproves of South Africa's position on, I would have said
42:34
most significantly, Israel? Israel, I don't know.
42:37
It's interesting with. The South African, if that, if
42:39
that was the case with the South African government, not say
42:41
that, I mean. I don't know.
42:43
If there's if there's generally an adversarial situation going
42:47
on there and that was the reason, then perhaps they would.
42:50
Yeah. Well, anyway.
42:51
Well, I don't know. I mean, yeah, it is.
42:53
It's massive speculation, but I would say, I would say the South
42:55
African government comes out of it much better if they if it
42:58
looks like they've stood up to and told him to push off rather
43:02
than him saying that he's not going to do it because he
43:04
doesn't like them. On the other hand, speculation.
43:08
On the other hand, we know that that China is creating its own
43:12
Starlink equivalent, and I suspect that that will open here
43:15
quite quickly. OK, Yeah, well, they they go
43:19
that that absolutely will be very interesting then what's
43:21
that called, do you know? I've got no idea.
43:25
OK, I have to say, I think people should be absolutely
43:30
opposing this in every, I don't care what country it is that's
43:33
doing this. We should be opposing this in
43:35
every way. I mean, what are we doing?
43:37
We're shoving, you know, cornflakes, box sized bits of
43:42
electronics in their thousands, 10s of thousands into low Earth
43:46
orbit. What are we doing?
43:48
Why are we doing it? This is purely as, as we've just
43:51
said, this is purely at the end of the day for war capability.
43:55
Why are we not pushing back against us as hard as we
43:59
possibly can? We should.
44:00
But I mean, it was used against the Iranian people recently.
44:03
I don't know if you read 1 of I mean OK, absolutely.
44:06
Absolutely. Yeah.
44:07
We've we've reported that on the news program.
44:08
Absolutely. And and that's why the Iranian
44:12
government shut down Stalink temporarily, but but the media
44:16
reports it differently. Of course you do because the
44:19
media is, is for regime change in that country.
44:23
But but yes, Starlink was absolutely being used to
44:26
organize the the full opposition there absolutely 100%.
44:32
And yeah, it it is. So United States doing it, UK
44:37
doing it, China doing it, other countries doing it, shoving
44:40
these things up into low Earth orbit.
44:43
Is this what we want? I don't think so.
44:45
And we should, we should be recognizing what's actually
44:48
going on. You know, and some people are
44:50
saying, oh, but it's great because I can get my Internet
44:52
connection in the. It's not that great though.
44:56
Well, why do you want this? You know, we, we got to, we got
45:00
to really be asking ourselves these questions.
45:03
Yeah, and who benefits? Well, it's not us because.
45:07
Because they'll throw us a bone of of great Internet connection
45:11
while they're using the same technology to control us with
45:15
their technocratic surveillance state.
45:18
So you know what is it you want? It is.
45:25
It is a strange concept though. I mean, if you've supposedly got
45:28
these stalling satellites all over the place, you know, it
45:34
would seem easy enough to connect to it no matter where
45:37
you are. But there's some, I don't know
45:39
how the technology works. I just, I just don't, I just
45:41
don't understand how you can't connect to then from a certain
45:44
country. I'm not, I'm not interested in
45:46
using Starlink, but I'm just wondering how the technology
45:48
works. I don't know if you know any
45:49
anything about that. How they can create a geofence?
45:56
Because there has to be, there has to be a signal that that is
46:02
transmitted from one point to another point.
46:05
And I suppose they can, they can shape that.
46:08
They can shape that signal quite accurately.
46:12
Because I mean. You're not connecting, you're
46:14
not connecting to 1 satellite. You say you've, you've got to
46:17
remember you're connecting to lots of satellites and that's at
46:20
the same time and and so it can triangulate your position
46:23
therefore. Yeah, I mean, I mean, I can see
46:27
them go across the sky at night. So, you know, they, you'll,
46:30
you'll see like a line of 10 or 15 of them, you know, in a, in a
46:33
line, whatever. But it's just, it's just strange
46:35
to me that you can't connect to them.
46:37
I just don't know how it works. Yeah, well, like so many other
46:41
things, and I might, might take a different view, but I'm just
46:46
constantly amazed at how so many things that all heralded is
46:49
being so incredibly clever just didn't really work.
46:53
I mean, still, I dare say in South Africa might be better
46:56
because it's sort of younger. The the, the way that
47:01
communications have been established has been in AI.
47:06
Don't know what am I trying to say?
47:07
The the legacy networks in the United Kingdom when, when mobile
47:12
telephony was set up, I think is very much different from what's
47:15
happening now. But but, but, but still, I find
47:17
I find mobile comms now a joke. I mean, they, they, they are a
47:22
joke. And, and the, the pity of
47:25
course, is that the landline infrastructure, which worked
47:31
very well is being dismantled at a great rate.
47:36
And a lot of, in a lot of places, you know, it's either
47:40
not possible to have a proper landlord because everything is
47:44
Internet based, which means you're vulnerable to all the
47:47
same problems. I, perhaps naively, I am so
47:53
surprised. I'm so surprised that this has
47:55
been allowed to happen because I think that what we are offered,
48:02
which is so perennially vulnerable to shocks of any
48:05
kind, it's just such a poor offering.
48:08
But I mean, that's I know I'm skeptical and a sort of wilful
48:13
Luddite, and I absolutely do want to wind the clock back in a
48:17
good way. No, no, no, you're no Charles.
48:20
You're bang on. You're bang on.
48:21
You look at, look the the Internet when it was originally
48:25
conceived, was intended to be an unbreakable network
48:29
communications network. It was intended to be utterly
48:32
resilient with multiple paths from one place to another.
48:36
And what they've done for commercial reasons mainly is, is
48:42
turn it into something which is fragile as hell.
48:45
You know, Cloudflare goes down, the whole Internet goes down.
48:50
Amazon goes down, the whole Internet goes down.
48:53
On top of that, we've got cyber attack after cyber attack with
48:57
people's personal information being stolen.
48:59
I was, I was listening to, I had the misfortune of having to be
49:03
in the car last night for one reason or another.
49:06
And the radio was on. And, but nonetheless, I was
49:10
listening to something where they were talking about, I can't
49:13
remember which country it was, New Zealand or somewhere where,
49:16
where a bunch of people in the country had signed up to some
49:22
kind of online therapy session thing right like this.
49:28
This is really indicative of, of where we're going.
49:30
We're taking what used to be an analog conversation between one
49:34
human being and another human being in the same room where,
49:37
OK, they might have recorded the conversation, but in some form,
49:41
but your, your every, every syllable that you utter was not
49:47
in a form that could be stolen. And they've moved it into a
49:50
digital realm where you're giving your innermost thoughts
49:53
and innermost secrets to some therapist on the other end of a
49:57
digital call. And that's being recorded as as
50:01
part of that digital call. And then the hackers come along
50:04
and they take your entire medical history, your Social
50:06
Security number, all the rest. And they then send you an e-mail
50:10
saying give us X amount of money in Bitcoin within 48 hours or
50:14
your this, this, your, the every recording that you've made with
50:18
your therapist is going to go online.
50:21
How is this? How is this a step forward in
50:24
our, in our culture, in our society?
50:26
How is this a step forward? This is a step backwards and,
50:29
and you know, the, the human to human contact, which where you
50:32
could have a conversation with someone, you pass that
50:35
information to that person that was in their minds now, but it
50:38
was nowhere else. And no one, no one could, could
50:41
use it as a form of blackmail later.
50:43
And suddenly we're in the, we're setting ourselves up, you know,
50:46
with, with this, this move towards digital ID and, and, and
50:50
our entire lives, our entire identities becoming digital
50:55
there for the picking. And there's not a single
50:58
corporation or government or organization that can protect
51:02
anybody from having that information stolen and being
51:05
used against us. This is, this is a bad direction
51:09
we're heading in. And we we absolutely need to be
51:11
going somewhere else. So I'm going to say to you,
51:13
Charles, we need to bring back our analogue telephone lines
51:17
and, and we need to bring back human to human contact.
51:19
And we need to shove all this digital rubbish in the bin where
51:23
it should be. Yeah, I mean, and I think what
51:26
what I'm, what I'm amazed by, you know, I've just been talking
51:28
about James Dyson, who's got a bit more money than I have.
51:31
And he, you know, he could be doing any number of these
51:36
things. And the reason I cite him is
51:37
because he's, you know, he's obviously taken a relatively
51:40
awakened view on farming, which he's clearly decided is a very
51:44
important thing to him. And these sorts of things must
51:48
be obvious to him, for example, that, you know, they should be
51:51
obvious to anybody. I mean, you, you cannot fail.
51:54
It doesn't matter what your world view is, nobody can say
51:58
that data is secure. It's just it can't be said.
52:03
It's an objective truth. But why hasn't anybody yet, or
52:11
at least has anybody yet tried to set something up that is
52:18
analogue and simple? And I know, sorry, obviously
52:21
this has all been done. But I mean, it's to either to
52:24
take here, the other example, of course, in the United Kingdom is
52:27
the post office, which is being driven into the ground.
52:31
And that is a disaster. I think we mentioned that last
52:34
week sort of jokingly, haha. It'll keep going because they
52:37
have to deliver pharmaceutical products via the post.
52:40
Hold on a second, but you're talking about Royal Mail, not
52:42
not the post office. Yeah, OK, sorry, I'm talking
52:45
about Royal Mail. But but but anyway, these
52:49
systems are there is anybody going to try to salvage what's
52:55
there and and go back to a point where it actually worked or is,
53:00
you know, is there going to be a movement where somebody just
53:02
snaps who's got billions and says, right, this is just
53:05
hopeless. We need, you know, we do need a
53:08
proper robust analog communications.
53:11
I mean, I don't know I is this is this unrealistic?
53:15
So I mean, I've started doing more solutions orientated shows
53:22
around tech. I don't know if you saw a few
53:24
weeks ago I had Hakim Anwar on and I'm going to get him on more
53:28
regularly because he offers sort of non live diet solutions in
53:37
the digital sphere. So he sent me a laptop.
53:41
All right, but why this laptop is different is that it's it's
53:46
run in Linux. Now, the average person doesn't
53:49
know what Linux is, but it really is a solution to getting
53:53
into a privacy orientated space. So in other words, you can still
53:56
work and do all your stuff, but you are a lot more sovereign and
54:00
a lot more secure digitally. It even has it even has now you
54:05
don't don't knee jerk, but it has localized AI on it.
54:09
But why that is different is that it's localized so it
54:13
doesn't connect to the Internet, It doesn't connect to a central
54:17
database. It's run purely off the machine.
54:20
So you can you can access, you know, libraries without worrying
54:24
about spyware and people invading your privacy.
54:28
So there are ways to adapt fairly successfully, Charles.
54:35
I'm sorry, I'm Jeremy. I'm going to have to push back
54:38
on that just a little bit right now.
54:39
I've been using, I've been a Linux advocate since 1995.
54:46
I've used it all the way through since 1995 till now.
54:52
And I think you've got to be very, very careful in what you
54:56
say about sovereignty and privacy and so on.
55:02
Because if if you're using your computer and it's sitting in
55:06
front of you and you're not connecting to anything, then
55:10
that's one thing. You can do a lot to mitigate the
55:13
dangers of connecting to the Internet using Linux.
55:17
That is absolutely true. But it's dangerous to think that
55:22
just because I've got a Linux computer on my desk and I've
55:25
done a couple of things that I'm now safe.
55:27
This is not the case. And because at the end of the
55:30
day, it's not your personal computer that's the issue here.
55:35
The the personal computer is not where the problem lies.
55:38
The problem lies with the fact that in order to interact with
55:42
YouTube or in order to interact with the government or in order
55:46
to interact with Amazon, you have to do certain things.
55:51
And using Linux is not going to stop you from having to do those
55:56
certain things. So it's you can reduce your
56:00
footprint, you can make it much harder for you to be tracked,
56:03
you can make it almost impossible for you to be tracked
56:06
perhaps. But at the end of the day, as
56:08
soon as you engage with a website that has an ad network
56:13
on it, as soon as you engage with an organization that
56:18
requires you to verify your identity, as I discovered when I
56:21
was preparing for Wednesday's news program.
56:25
And I wanted to look at it at a tweet from the Iranian foreign
56:28
minister. And X is now telling me I've got
56:30
to verify my age, right? As soon as as soon as you do
56:34
that, you're having to give something to that corporation.
56:37
So, so, you know, Linux is a step.
56:40
I'm not saying that that what your guest was saying was was
56:44
wrong. It is a step, but but the bottom
56:48
line here is that if you really want to protect yourself, you've
56:51
got to be willing to do without. You've got to be willing to to,
56:55
as I said, embrace inconvenience.
56:57
Can't use YouTube because YouTube wants me to verify my,
57:01
my identity or my age or X or any of these platforms.
57:05
Can't engage with the government digitally because I'm not going
57:09
to sign up to one login. And therefore I've got to sit
57:12
for four hours or six hours or 8 hours on the telephone while
57:15
nobody answers, right? These are, these are the kinds
57:18
of decisions that we have to make.
57:19
So, So yes, you can do a lot to, to, to reduce the danger, but
57:25
you can't eliminate it. And, and I think it's really
57:27
important that people understand that as soon as you are
57:30
connecting to somebody else, you are inevitably going to have to
57:34
give, give away something. And that's where the danger
57:38
lies. I will add though, that this
57:41
Linux machine of mine is 100% secure.
57:44
Why? Because the battery's flat and
57:47
it came with an American plug. In other words, it came with an
57:50
American plug. So I can't charge it.
57:52
So I've I've had to, there's a there's a joke in your
57:56
somewhere, but I had to order an American to South African
58:00
adapter from China. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
58:05
Brilliant. Yeah.
58:08
As sale, as sales pitches go, I've I've heard better.
58:18
So that machine is secure, I can tell you that.
58:22
But I mean, Mike, your point is well made.
58:23
I mean, nothing is absolutely secure, but I don't think
58:27
there's any harm which you've pointed out in, you know,
58:30
building walls and, and, and certainly making things more
58:32
difficult. I mean, creating more gridlock
58:35
is a good idea also. 100% all I'm all I'm really the only
58:40
point I'm really making here is don't think, don't give yourself
58:43
a false sense of security. This is security is something
58:46
which is that is at every level. And and it's it's also something
58:51
that, you know, even people that have been in technology for
58:56
decades don't necessarily understand.
59:00
It's a very specialized field and the average one of us isn't
59:05
going to get ourselves in a position where we're actually
59:10
secure in this world. I think I think what we've got
59:12
to be doing is fighting for a a world where that we don't have
59:18
to have these kinds of concerns. Yeah, I think that's a pretty
59:23
good note on which to come to a close.
59:26
Coming for landing this, this the Segway taking us all the way
59:29
back to the beginning of the conversation.
59:33
I'll catch up with with you guys next week.
59:37
Thanks, John. Thanks all.
59:38
Right. All right.
59:38
Cool. Cheers.
59:39
Bye.