Latest / The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten / Avoidant Wives: How To Tell If You Have One

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Avoidant Wives: How To Tell If You Have One · The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten

• 0:05
  Hi everybody, and welcome to the dr.
• 0:07
  Psych mom show today, I'm going to be discussing avoidant
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  attachment, which is the opposite of the podcast episode
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  on why your wife doesn't like when you travel for work and why
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  she's not happy when you get home, when you're away from
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  during the day. So those women are preoccupied
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  attachment and that's if you refer back to my latest paid
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  episode for subscribers, which is one reason you should
• 0:32
  subscribe on attachment Theory. Then You will remember that
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  there. That is preoccupied attachment.
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  But there's also avoidant attachment.
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  So there's like, seven zillion things about how men act, when
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  they're avoidant attachment which you can read on my blog or
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  basically anywhere. I feel like there's books
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  literally, with the title, of the avoidant, male, the
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  emotionally withholding man, etc, etc.
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  But there's not as many written on when women are avoidant
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  attachment. So before we jump into that, I
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  just want to tell you to subscribe. cry because then you
• 1:05
  get all of my paid episodes and motivate me to keep us, you
• 1:10
  know, creating here and separately not for the podcast,
• 1:15
  but separately, because there's been some confusion even though
• 1:19
  I try to say this all the time, you should subscribe to my
• 1:22
  Facebook group because then you could talk in private without
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  anybody seeing your comments, like friends and family could
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  talk about lots of interesting topics with all of my followers
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  that have joined and all of those topic threads are really
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  Staying about relationships, parenting, Etc and I engage in
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  there quite a bit. Okay, so what is an avoidant
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  woman look like? Well it's interesting.
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  This came actually was sparked by a thread in my Facebook group
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  but it really doesn't like it's okay.
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  Avoidant attachment, men avoided.
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  Males are not going to want to talk about emotions at all.
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  Like they're just not you know like you bring up an emotion
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  they like run the fuck out of the room like women are not like
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  that. Women are raised to talk about
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  emotions. So you can't really tell if a
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  woman is avoidant attachment or preoccupied attachment by how
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  much she talks about emotion, emotion.
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  I mean, probably the preoccupied, we'll talk more
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  about it, but emotionally avoidant, women are also going
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  to talk about emotion because women talk about emotion.
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  So that's like your overarching construct.
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  Like that's your umbrella construct woman.
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  Yes, then they talk about emotion.
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  So what avoided means, For women.
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  How you could tell if this is more, like, your wife are
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  things. Like she wants to spend a lot of
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  time alone or with her friends or at work.
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  She does not really want to spend a lot of time with you.
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  You know, she does not really like intimacy.
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  And I'm not sometimes actually, the avoiding woman will like sex
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  more, because that's like the only way that they could express
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  intimacy, but usually it's fairly wrote.
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  It's like the same way all the time and it's not like a lot of
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  eye contact or kissing. It's more like Course to orgasm.
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  And that's that, you know, and this is because of void and
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  women as and I discuss more about avoidant attachment,
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  obviously, in that podcast where I go into an in-depth but they
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  don't, they haven't been raised to be very interdependent when
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  they were kids. They didn't learn to rely on
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  others, they learn to rely on themselves.
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  So, in fact, when you are having sex with your avoidant
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  attachment wife, you may feel that she is using your body and
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  while some of you men listening, maybe like awesome.
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  It really is not. You know, when you are coupled
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  in such a relationship is really not that awesome and because you
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  don't feel like it matters, who's there like it matters
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  Caillou feel kind of like the vibrator and frequently.
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  There's also a vibrator to be honest because that lessons
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  intimacy even more so that's frequently an add-on because
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  then think about it if she doesn't want to be dependent,
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  that should not dependent on you for really much of anything, if
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  the vibrators there and if you really We are only for that one
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  part of sex, which TBH when we can do without the penis part,
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  if they have the vibrator. So, you know, it's well you have
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  to think about is, does your wife like to need you or not?
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  Or is she kind of weirded out by needing you and goes to Great
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  Lengths to show that she is independent to does not need
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  you? So while obviously, it's good to
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  be your own person within an intimate, Kinship avoidant,
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  people take this too far and everything.
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  So is like, in the Venn diagram of who they are versus who their
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  partner is, the circles are next to each other.
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  They do not really overlap, except in childcare and there's
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  frequently a lot of like tag team stuff.
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  Like I get home from work and you take the kids and I go to
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  the gym and then when you, when I come back from the gym, you go
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  to the gym, and then I'll go to sleep and then I'll do the early
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  feeding. And then you'll do the late
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  feeding. This always sounds like so
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  great. Like to anybody listening until
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  these people get divorced. But but, you know, they really
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  didn't see each other for like the children's entire childhood.
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  They kind of did a tag team thing because the end of the
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  world would be a person, specifically the avoidant person
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  usually didn't get to do their Hobbies, their socializing work.
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  And however way they wanted it and everything else that makes
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  them them because they're a lot more comfortable being a
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  discrete individual entity than part of a couple.
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  Now, it's Frank when there's a preoccupied attachment woman,
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  everybody's kind of used to that more.
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  Women are, in fact, preoccupied attachment more, men are in
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  fact, avoidant attachment. So when you have an avoidant
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  attachment woman, more men are more quote independent.
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  So they do like to have hobbies and alone time more.
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  Usually it's very rare for a man to say that they have any sort
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  of fear or anxiety about being in the house by themselves,
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  whereas many women feel this way, women have higher Rates of
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  depression and anxiety and evolutionarily are more
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  physically vulnerable, particularly if pregnant nursing
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  or have small kids. So they are wired to be less
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  okay with being alone. So, if you have a woman who goes
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  against this evolutionary mainstream kind of effect, then
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  then then truly she's quite avoidant, you know, and you will
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  be able to tell because she wants to do.
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  She wants to make sure she could do everything on her own.
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  She frequently wants to have The finances separate, you know, she
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  wants to know that you could do everything sometimes stated like
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  in case we were not together anymore.
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  Sometimes it's on the stated but you can't help.
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  But think what are you preparing for?
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  You know, I'm here but it's like as though you can't, you can
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  very easily picture what her life would be like if you die
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  because she kind of living it already, you know like she hangs
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  out with you when you want maybe.
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  And then when you don't want to and you don't mention it, you
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  kind of do Don't see that, she mentions it that much.
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  Now in terms of discussing emotion avoidant attachment
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  women, as I've said before they can say I had a bad day at work,
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  I'm sad. I feel hurt by XYZ, they can say
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  that stuff because again women Bond like that and they may be
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  very socially Adept. The avoidant attachment does not
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  happen with friends. No attachment relationships are
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  really we're not really talking about friendships, the only
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  friendships that Anyway, end up looking like the attachment
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  style of the person which started with their caregiver as
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  I discussed in the attachment Theory, podcast.
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  The only ones that look like that are sometimes very close
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  best friendships in like adolescence or early 20s.
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  That's when women get like super close to other women.
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  Really starting from a preteen up to like marriage.
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  There can be like a best friend that almost is similar to an
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  attachment figure and with whom an avoidant attachment, Women
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  may have a best friend that is more preoccupied, similar to how
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  the man is that she eventually marries.
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  So this friend is the one who's always asking your wife to hang
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  out and kind of wanting more from your wife, then maybe your
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  wife could get, or it could be possible that you entered your
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  wife's life at a point where she did not have such a best friend,
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  or she was just so avoidant attachment that she only stayed
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  in a group and never really had the intimacy of a best friend at
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  all. So she could look completely
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  socially. She could look way more socially
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  Adept than you. She can have a million friends
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  thrive in a group Thrive at work, but there's always kind of
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  something missing in the intimacy realm.
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  Now, most guys who are listening to this that are partnered with
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  an avoidant. Attachment woman are not
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  securely attached for reasons. I went into an attachment Theory
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  podcast and in fact are preoccupied.
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  So these men are making everything worse because there's
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  what I refer to as and what is called interlocking pathologies.
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  So their desire to emerge. Merge completely and gain
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  ultimate intimacy with their wives is, of course, pushing
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  their wives away even more. So every time that you say, oh
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  come hang out with me, let's be closed.
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  Let's do date night. What do you want for your
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  birthday? What do you want for this?
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  Every time you do anything like that, the woman is almost like
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  like weirded out and sometimes even contemptuous or disgusted
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  because the amount that you seem to need her which is certainly
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  too much quote unquote too much because you are preoccupied.
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  Hi Detachment. Then she this pushes her away
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  more and more and more, which then, of course, amplifies and
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  exaggerates, your own preoccupied attachment in a
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  vicious cycle. So everybody ends up.
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  You end up more preoccupied, from being partnered with an
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  avoidant partner, they end up more avoiding from being
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  partnered with you. Now, sometimes there are very
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  infrequently, sometimes there are to avoid and people that end
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  up together as I discussed, this is way not common, but sometimes
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  it can happen. And in that case, neither what
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  he's listening to my podcast, because neither one of you care,
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  super deeply about the relationship in this integral
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  sense that you would be researching it.
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  But if this is a situation that somehow you are listening to my
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  stuff and you're in then both of you were raised to be hyper
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  independent not trust people and the reason you probably got
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  together was honestly you were in a culture where marriage was
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  really the thing to do. You got to the a 20 He's getting
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  married and y'all got married and probably both of you never
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  felt as completely intimate as you may have even felt with
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  prior Partners, but it seemed right.
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  You were like, probably very good on paper.
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  And these people often cheat on each other a lot to avoidant
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  partners because both of them are they're both kind of
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  innately drawn to somebody who is going to be more into them.
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  Anybody would be You know? And so if somebody is very into
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  an avoidant person, they can kind of that first in the
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  honeymoon stage, kind of bring them a little bit out of their
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  avoidance shell. So if you are, the more common
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  of a preoccupied man, whose with an avoidant wife listening to
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  this, at the beginning, you may have seen more intimacy, you
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  know, come out. And you may have seen her rely
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  on you more particularly, if there was any sort of Crisis,
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  you know, like a lot of times avoidant with Get together after
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  a crisis. So for example, she had a health
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  scare and you were there for her.
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  So she was able to open up to you, or she had just been broken
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  up with by somebody else in a very humiliating way.
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  And then you were there. So, this, whatever vulnerability
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  you saw at the beginning may not have been endemic to the
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  character, but rather an artifact of the situation that
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  the woman found herself in at that time.
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  And this can always leave the man like chasing the dragon.
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  Dragon because he's trying to get back, the woman who we saw
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  for such a fleeting period during the earliest honeymoon
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  stage. This is a variant of how men
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  tried to recapture the sexuality that they saw in every woman
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  regardless of attachment style, generally during the honeymoon
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  stage. When their libido is
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  artificially inflated by the hormones of the honeymoon stage
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  as I discuss constantly in this podcast and on my blog.
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  So, if you are partnered with an avoidant attachment woman, what
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  are you to do? Well, the most likely to help
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  would be your own therapy. So you figure out really, what
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  part of this relationship is due to you.
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  Exacerbating things by being probably jealous, controlling
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  anxious Etc because you yourself have unresolved childhood issues
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  that are being exacerbated by what you perceive as correctly,
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  as kind of, being pushed off a little bit by your partner.
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  And if you do, you do work through a lot of these issues on
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  your own. You may end up more securely
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  attached and ironically then less likely to put up with a
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  relationship in which somebody's intimacy level only goes so deep
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  and in which their need for intimacy is really not there.
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  You know, as much as you might want it to be.
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  So that's how therapy can fuck up relationships.
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  I mean, I can't just like getting sober can suck up
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  relationships. Any time that somebody gets
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  healthier, it fuck's up the Is quo and a real good movie about.
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  This is When a Man Loves a Woman with Meg, Ryan, I always talk
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  about this as an example of a, codependent relationship where
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  when one person changes for the better, the relationship is put
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  under stress, and this is something that therapist see all
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  the time, but this doesn't mean that if you're listening to
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  this, you shouldn't go to therapy.
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  Cause I'm telling you, you'll end up leaving your wife, that
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  isn't reality. Nor, is it good?
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  You don't have to ever leave. Your nobody ever pushes anybody
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  do anything. They don't want to do, and Your
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  relationship also. By the way, may get a lot better
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  because once you are more securely attached, there may be
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  some bumps and then maybe you could get your wife into couples
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  counseling. Now that you're not doing some
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  crazy shit anymore and you know, you're doing some crazy shit.
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  You may not be like survey surveilling her, you know.
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  You may not be like watching her on Life 360, make sure she's not
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  cheating on you, even though maybe you used to do that when
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  you were younger, but you are probably acting very needy.
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  I have a podcast about neediness versus boundaries, You may be
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  acting pretty annoying and salty and whiny because yes you're
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  right. Your emotional needs are not
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  getting met but also you yourself are waited to be
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  hyper-vigilant and Hyper needy from things in your past.
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  So the reason that you are initially drawn to your wife, as
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  again, I talked about in that podcast is because you were, you
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  did not get consistent loving attention as a child through no
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  fault of your parents. They were not able to Provide
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  that for you, for numerous potential reasons, including,
• 15:09
  you know, their own issues, you know, let's just put it all
• 15:11
  under their own issues and so you became hyper aware of any
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  time that anybody wasn't going to be there for you, and you
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  became obsessed with getting somebody who would be there for
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  you. So, Imago theory states, you
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  find somebody kind of like a caregiver, then you spend your
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  life trying to make them better and ways you could never make
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  your caregiver better. So if you were a man whose
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  mother ran really hot and cold Old then, you know, and she was
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  never really there enough for you.
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  Because let's say, you had a sibling with substance abuse
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  issues and your mother was completely taken up with that,
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  or they had marital problems, or your mother was an alcoholic or
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  depressed or what have you then you are drawn to a woman who is
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  a challenge to get her attention, and you will feel
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  truly repair. And if you can get this woman,
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  who is difficult in some way, like your mother and then,
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  finally get her to pay attention to you and be consistently
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  loving. But by doing that and by
• 16:06
  throwing your whole self into that you may be overshooting and
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  in fact pushing her away more particularly if she has avoided
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  Tendencies. So if this describes you this is
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  definitely something that you can work on in counseling and
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  hopefully it gave you a little bit of a light bulb moment.
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  If this describes more of your interactions, this is a lot of
• 16:31
  guys that I work with and they're not used to thinking of
• 16:34
  women as Emotionally avoided in any way because after all woman
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  talks about emotion, but every woman talks about emotion, you
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  know. So I'd be really think about if
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  you take out just the fact, literally, she talks about
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  emotion, is she pursuing you ever to hang out?
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  Think about it or she pursuing you never to hang out, you know.
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  And also obviously the pursuer distance or stuff I write about
• 17:00
  on my blog is also relevant to this.
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  So hopefully this gave you a bit of a A Eureka moment that can
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  then lead to potentially pursuing some more, you know,
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  ways to get self-actualized and not to continue being in this
• 17:15
  Dynamic. That's so frustrating.
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  EG therapy both individual and couples eventually.
• 17:21
  All right, thanks for listening. And please do subscribe.