Latest / Making Muscle Memories / The Hidden cost of Avoiding Pain
Transcript
- 0:00SPEAKER_00: In this episode of Making Muscle Memories, I want to talk with you about the hidden cost of avoiding pain.
- 0:06SPEAKER_00: Maybe you're someone that's avoiding taking the stairs, getting in and out of a car, getting off the floor, or certain activities that you used to participate in.
- 0:15SPEAKER_00: You may not have noticed this and it doesn't happen overnight, but your world has suddenly gotten a lot smaller.
- 0:22SPEAKER_00: In this episode, I'm going to tell you a little bit about why this happens, as well as give you some smart, simple solutions on how to combat pain as well as some much needed inspiration.
- 0:34SPEAKER_00: After 40 years of work in the fitness industry, I have learned that real strength isn't just built through exercise, but through experience.
- 0:43SPEAKER_00: I will share with you some of the science as well as the stories that have shaped my work.
- 0:48SPEAKER_00: We are all building muscle memories.
- 0:51SPEAKER_00: One rep, one story, and one day at a time.
- 0:54SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Making Muscle Memories Podcast.
- 0:56SPEAKER_00: My name is Lauren Irk and I will be your host.
- 0:59SPEAKER_00: In this episode, I'm going to talk with you about the hidden cost of avoiding pain.
- 1:04SPEAKER_00: Now, let me give you a little bit of background.
- 1:06SPEAKER_00: For me, as I was younger getting involved in fitness, I had no idea that I would be in the business of helping people with pain.
- 1:14SPEAKER_00: But as I've gotten older and as my clients have gotten older, definitely I've noticed that my clients manage pain in one way or another throughout their life.
- 1:25SPEAKER_00: And it's my job to help them with this.
- 1:28SPEAKER_00: Now I have owned fitness centers myself.
- 1:30SPEAKER_00: I've also worked in big box gyms.
- 1:33SPEAKER_00: And one thing that has always perplexed me is that whenever someone were to get an injury, maybe they were got an injury playing golf or gardening or whatever it was, they slipped and fell in the ice.
- 1:44SPEAKER_00: The first thing that a lot of people do is they cancel their membership.
- 1:48SPEAKER_00: They cancel their physical therapy session, their personal training session, because they have to go to the doctor, they have to rest.
- 1:54SPEAKER_00: And granted, sometimes you do have to go to the doctor, but it's amazing that when someone feels pain, there's this amount of fear that gets over them and they're thinking, I've got to stop everything, right?
- 2:05SPEAKER_00: And I've always said to myself, why would you cancel your membership?
- 2:08SPEAKER_00: Or why would you cancel your session with me when coming to me is the very thing that you should be doing so that I can help you manage this and we can see what it is that's going on.
- 2:19SPEAKER_00: But I have definitely noticed that people will stop playing sports.
- 2:24SPEAKER_00: Maybe they were an avid golfer, and now that their back hurts, they stop.
- 2:27SPEAKER_00: They stop doing these things.
- 2:29SPEAKER_00: They stop taking the stairs.
- 2:32SPEAKER_00: They're always wanting to go to the elevator.
- 2:34SPEAKER_00: They have to take specific steps to avoid physical exertion because there's such a fear around having pain.
- 2:41SPEAKER_00: Now I can somewhat understand this.
- 2:43SPEAKER_00: I'm no stranger to pain.
- 2:45SPEAKER_00: I've had two knee surgeries.
- 2:46SPEAKER_00: I broke my pelvis in a car accident.
- 2:48SPEAKER_00: I have a separated shoulder from an injury that I suffered from when I was 13 pitching softball.
- 2:54SPEAKER_00: I've also had some plantar fasciitis in my life.
- 2:56SPEAKER_00: I've had the whole myriad of all of this stuff.
- 2:58SPEAKER_00: And I can remember recovering from my knee surgery and sort of thinking, okay, I want to make sure that I avoid the stairs today.
- 3:05SPEAKER_00: I'm going to take the elevator instead.
- 3:07SPEAKER_00: Or I want to make sure that I wear the proper footwear.
- 3:10SPEAKER_00: I have my crutches close by.
- 3:11SPEAKER_00: Or, you know, as I'm going down the stairs, I may slow down a little bit because I don't have as much flexion in my knee currently.
- 3:18SPEAKER_00: I get that.
- 3:19SPEAKER_00: But in the back of my mind, there was always this idea that, you know, I had the skill set to manage this and that over time the pain would go away.
- 3:29SPEAKER_00: And I have noticed that.
- 3:31SPEAKER_00: It's almost like my body got tired of feeling those things, and I just started, you know, exercising and really starting to engage my muscular system and was able to resolve this.
- 3:40SPEAKER_00: But I do believe that there are lots of people in the world that this never occurs to them.
- 3:46SPEAKER_00: It's like this pain that I have is going to be here forever, and I'm never going to get rid of this.
- 3:51SPEAKER_00: And I've got to just be very aware from this, and I'm going to let this hold me back in life.
- 3:56SPEAKER_00: Right?
- 3:57SPEAKER_00: I was at the airport not too long ago, and I was, you know, walking to my flight, and I'm sure we've all had this experience.
- 4:05SPEAKER_00: And there was a one of those doo-doo-doo beeping sounds that come from behind you, and you have this, you know, this realization that there's a cart telling you to get out of their way because there's people riding on it.
- 4:16SPEAKER_00: And I looked over and I glanced and I kind of noticed the people that were on the train.
- 4:20SPEAKER_00: I kept walking.
- 4:21SPEAKER_00: So as I get to my gate, I got a water or something, and I sat down.
- 4:25SPEAKER_00: I was going to wait for my flight.
- 4:26SPEAKER_00: And I looked over, and there's this woman next to me that was actually on that sort of train that had come by me.
- 4:34SPEAKER_00: And I guess just because of the way that I was dressed, she assumed that I was involved in fitness.
- 4:40SPEAKER_00: I wasn't dressed up.
- 4:41SPEAKER_00: Of course, I don't always dress up, but that's another story.
- 4:44SPEAKER_00: But I was always I'm kind of always in athletic wear.
- 4:46SPEAKER_00: I laugh.
- 4:47SPEAKER_00: But anyway, so she started asking me about what I what I did and everything, and we started talking.
- 4:52SPEAKER_00: And as I was um, you know, communicating with her, I mentioned the fact that, oh yeah, I saw that you were, you know, on the cart.
- 4:58SPEAKER_00: Do you have a hard time walking?
- 5:00SPEAKER_00: And what she said to me, first of all, she was my age, which I found really perplexing because I expected her to be a lot older just from the way she was moving about.
- 5:09SPEAKER_00: Um, she told me that she was just really afraid that she wasn't going to be able to make it from security point to the gate, and she didn't want to miss her flight.
- 5:18SPEAKER_00: We had like tons of time for the for the for the flight to get there, but in her mind, she had to make sure that she had one of these mobile things to get her from security to the gate.
- 5:29SPEAKER_00: And so as we were talking, um, it just I started asking her why that was.
- 5:34SPEAKER_00: And it was because of a fall that she had had recently, and she was worried that her ankle would swell, and she was going to go on this vacation, and she was going to go to India, evidently, and she was going to go on a tour, and she wanted to make sure that she was going to be able to walk.
- 5:49SPEAKER_00: And as I was, you know, as we sort of were boarding the plane, and she went to her seat and I went to my seat, I started really thinking about this, and I thought to myself, wow, what would that be like to actually feel like I couldn't participate in things because I was afraid that I was going to have pain.
- 6:05SPEAKER_00: And I guess for me, being in the fitness community uh all my life and studying, I've had some great mentors, and I am a muscle activation technique specialist.
- 6:14SPEAKER_00: I know how to help myself when I'm in pain.
- 6:16SPEAKER_00: I mean, I know how to do isometrics, I know how to do corrective exercise, but it was just like, wow, this person is just her life must be must be so small, like what she can do, and the just the kind of uh cage really that she's put herself in.
- 6:32SPEAKER_00: And it really got me thinking about several of the interactions that I've had with my clients and how maybe I need to communicate with them.
- 6:39SPEAKER_00: So let's first take a look at some of the science as to why this might be.
- 6:42SPEAKER_00: Why do we feel pain?
- 6:43SPEAKER_00: So I always look at pain, and by the way, I am not a pain specialist, I don't treat pain, I don't give pain injections, I don't chase pain, I am not a pain doctor, but I do have to deal with pain because my clients tell me that they're in pain.
- 6:58SPEAKER_00: What I use to treat pain is force.
- 7:01SPEAKER_00: I prescribe forces on people, both in-person clients as well as my online clients in my app FIS on demand.
- 7:08SPEAKER_00: I prescribe exercises.
- 7:10SPEAKER_00: As a matter of fact, on my platform, I try to give general information and general programs where I take a stair-step approach to resolving specific pain points.
- 7:22SPEAKER_00: I even have a whole section on my app that is called PT recipes, um, FIS recipes rather, fitness integrated science recipes, that help people to navigate through pain.
- 7:32SPEAKER_00: So this is nothing that I'm not a stranger to.
- 7:35SPEAKER_00: So when I when I think about pain, the first step is going to be what I call the no sususceptive pain.
- 7:41SPEAKER_00: The no susceptive pain is I've just gotten a pain point, I have I am now injured, and now my body is deliberately dumping in pain reception.
- 7:51SPEAKER_00: This is the acute stage of pain.
- 7:53SPEAKER_00: I've fallen and I've torn a meniscus in my knee.
- 7:56SPEAKER_00: And now, immediately what happens in the body?
- 7:58SPEAKER_00: I suddenly can't straighten my knee.
- 8:00SPEAKER_00: Immediate swelling, immediate pain.
- 8:03SPEAKER_00: And you oftentimes see people, you know, grabbing that area and rubbing it, and that rubbing it sort of creates an inhibition effect, a gait inhibition effect, where it takes that noxious input and moves it somewhere else temporarily.
- 8:15SPEAKER_00: You see little kids do this.
- 8:16SPEAKER_00: You're like hot hit your head, and the first thing you want to do is you want to rub it, right?
- 8:20SPEAKER_00: And this is the stage where the body starts to do the swelling, the compensation, the immediate inhibition of muscle tissue to where muscles all of a sudden we can't walk on them.
- 8:31SPEAKER_00: We can we can't put weight on our foot or we we can't bend our knee.
- 8:34SPEAKER_00: This is also when the body starts to release cortisol and endorphins.
- 8:39SPEAKER_00: And I and there's the there's a mild case of this.
- 8:41SPEAKER_00: Have you ever been you know injured?
- 8:42SPEAKER_00: Maybe your knee hurt, you woke up with stiff feet.
- 8:44SPEAKER_00: Maybe you're someone that suffered from, I don't know, plantar fasciitis.
- 8:47SPEAKER_00: And at the beginning of the day, your feet are sort of you know stiff and you feel a little bit of pain.
- 8:52SPEAKER_00: But as the day goes on, your body resolves this by throwing in endorphins and it sort of masks it after a while.
- 8:58SPEAKER_00: And if we do the right things, this is my job, right, as a MAT specialist, as a yoga therapist, as a personal trainer, I try to resolve this by giving people isometrics and give people force-related isometric exercise to try to resolve this chronic pain.
- 9:14SPEAKER_00: And certainly there are times that someone has to have surgery.
- 9:17SPEAKER_00: You know, I I tore a bicep tendon or something and I have to go see the doctor.
- 9:21SPEAKER_00: This is an acute injury.
- 9:22SPEAKER_00: But it's really what happens when this pain becomes chronic.
- 9:26SPEAKER_00: That I think that a fear is always there, but man, it is really fearful when it becomes chronic.
- 9:31SPEAKER_00: And so when we get to this stage, this is when they call some what some people call this the neuropathic stage.
- 9:38SPEAKER_00: In the neuropathic stage, this there's literally been damage now to the brain and spinal cord.
- 9:43SPEAKER_00: And when when I think of this, I think of this as unresolved tissue adaptation that your body has done deliberately.
- 9:50SPEAKER_00: Where now this tissue, because we haven't used it, we've we've had an injury, we had an acute injury, this tissue went weak because of the injury, because of the pain response.
- 10:00SPEAKER_00: And so when it went weak, we didn't use it.
- 10:03SPEAKER_00: We didn't try to gently put forces on it which would cause that muscle to be recruited again.
- 10:09SPEAKER_00: And by the way, your brain does this on purpose, right?
- 10:13SPEAKER_00: So your brain, when when you start to, you know, you get an injury, your brain will temporarily shut muscles down.
- 10:20SPEAKER_00: I see it all the time.
- 10:21SPEAKER_00: It will shut muscles down to the point where it won't recruit that tissue in order to protect you, is a protective mechanism.
- 10:29SPEAKER_00: And what you'll notice is maybe you can't raise your arm over your head, you can't bend your ankle, whatever.
- 10:34SPEAKER_00: So muscles will temporarily be shut off, not getting the neurofeedback.
- 10:39SPEAKER_00: That's why we call it the neurosceptive feedback, so that your body will protect itself.
- 10:45SPEAKER_00: This is done deliberately, and the way that we can work our way out of this is giving the body a new solution.
- 10:52SPEAKER_00: And I've always talked about the value of MAT, of isometric training to try to slowly get that neuropathway honed again to where the brain is comfortable giving it a new solution to try to recruit that tissue.
- 11:07SPEAKER_00: Because if we don't, what happens if we don't?
- 11:09SPEAKER_00: We just sort of sit and we just don't participate in life.
- 11:12SPEAKER_00: That tissue is now become atrophied, meaning that not only have we not used it, the body is not recruiting it, now we're not putting forces on it, and now the tissue has gotten smaller, right?
- 11:24SPEAKER_00: The actual muscle mass has gotten smaller.
- 11:27SPEAKER_00: We call this atrophy.
- 11:29SPEAKER_00: Not only has the tissue gotten smaller, but the neural pathway from the brain to the tissue has become underutilized.
- 11:36SPEAKER_00: So the brain itself has not been used to recruiting this tissue.
- 11:40SPEAKER_00: So now we have a bigger problem, right?
- 11:43SPEAKER_00: And this is this is where we become more sensitive to pain.
- 11:48SPEAKER_00: This is the sensitivation part of chronic pain.
- 11:52SPEAKER_00: And people can be can actually develop what's called, they can become sort of like these the motor highways, highways to pain, to where now we feel pain all the time.
- 12:06SPEAKER_00: And sometimes the pain that we feel isn't even real.
- 12:10SPEAKER_00: And I've and I've had this happen to me in a in sessions before, and I've I've told you I do a type of manual therapy called muscle activation techniques, and I've had people where like maybe they have a chronic hip pain, and man, you just you just put your hands near somebody's hip, and they're like, ah, and you're like, I didn't even touch you, or I just mainly just place my hand on it to feel it.
- 12:28SPEAKER_00: And they immediately they just have such a such a memory of that thing hurting that they don't want you anywhere near it.
- 12:36SPEAKER_00: And at this point, it can become inflammatory.
- 12:39SPEAKER_00: We are in a state of inflammation.
- 12:41SPEAKER_00: This is that burning, uh stinging sensation where it's just like all day long.
- 12:46SPEAKER_00: And I always ask my clients when they're exercising, are you in pain right now because we've just worked out and your muscles are actually experiencing force?
- 12:54SPEAKER_00: Because some of that pain is actually just the pain of exercise.
- 12:57SPEAKER_00: We don't want to have that, but that can happen.
- 12:59SPEAKER_00: And you know this because when the exercise or the the muscle contraction is stopped, the pain is gone.
- 13:05SPEAKER_00: But when this thing is going on all day long, and people said, I had this burning sensation in my in my sciatic all day long, and it's running down my leg, and you can always tell when there's a nerve problem because it's traveling now instead of being localized in one side of the hip, it's now going from the lower back into the hip, down the side of the leg, down the side of the knee, into the foot, causing numbness, causing dysfunction to the point of actually having incontinence.
- 13:30SPEAKER_00: Well, that's when we know that now we have a disc injury, and this is where you know people run down that pathway of having to go and have an operation which causes even more inhibition and more pain, and then it leads sometimes to even more surgeries.
- 13:44SPEAKER_00: And so I'm always telling people, no, we want to try to get pain or we want to try to resolve injuries as they happen, not let them sit there and avoid life.
- 13:55SPEAKER_00: But throughout this process, what's happening is that we are in fear, and I have seen this happen so many times around clients.
- 14:03SPEAKER_00: And I can understand, like I said, I have had fear before.
- 14:06SPEAKER_00: Whenever I have fear, and I and and I am I am a Christian, and I I always am inspired when I have fear, and I feel like I can't resolve things by the Bible.
- 14:17SPEAKER_00: And there is a verse in 2 Timothy in chapter 1, verse 7, and it says, God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and love and of sound mind.
- 14:30SPEAKER_00: Now, the verse itself was given to Paul in Paul was the evangelist, was giving it to um a lesser, a guy that was younger, and he was afraid of evangelizing.
- 14:42SPEAKER_00: He was afraid of talking about the gospel to people.
- 14:45SPEAKER_00: And certainly we've all been there before.
- 14:47SPEAKER_00: And Paul was trying to tell him not to have fear that the Holy Spirit, God will give you the inspiration and the words to be able to say what needs to be said, and that was the idea of giving him power, and that if he speaks through love and through having a sound mind, that he will be successful.
- 15:08SPEAKER_00: To me, when I always, whenever I read things like this, and I think I heard this in church one week, and I kind of highlighted it and I knew that I wanted to bring it into this, into this, um, into this podcast, this episode, to me, when I heard that, it gave me it gives me a lot of hope to working with my own fears as well as with client fears.
- 15:25SPEAKER_00: And let's let's let's break that down a little bit.
- 15:27SPEAKER_00: First of all, what is fear?
- 15:29SPEAKER_00: What is fear in the body?
- 15:30SPEAKER_00: You know that you can actually have so much fear of moving, you can have so much fear of something hurting or something turning into a disease process.
- 15:39SPEAKER_00: And there's real scientific evidence of this, that you can physically make it happen in the real world.
- 15:45SPEAKER_00: So something that we have thought about manifesting in our own mind, we've made it happen in our own bodies.
- 15:52SPEAKER_00: So we have to think about fear, and we have to get a handle on why we're having fear.
- 15:56SPEAKER_00: To me, whenever I used to have fear a lot when my body was falling apart, when I was I had my eating disorder back when I was a teenager and I'd recovering from that and I hurt all the time, I had so much fear that it was just plaguing my life.
- 16:09SPEAKER_00: And so, really getting a handle on that fear for me was about educating myself, educating myself about the human body and educating myself on how to take care of it properly.
- 16:21SPEAKER_00: So, if we think about the idea of power, power is you do have the ability, because it says here that God had not given us the spirit of fear, but of power.
- 16:33SPEAKER_00: So God gives us power.
- 16:35SPEAKER_00: You have the power inside of you to heal yourself.
- 16:38SPEAKER_00: Did you know that?
- 16:40SPEAKER_00: You don't need an outside person, you don't need pills or surgery or a massage therapist.
- 16:46SPEAKER_00: I know it helps, it does help, but a lot of the healing happens inside of you.
- 16:52SPEAKER_00: I had a cat once that ripped my finger open.
- 16:55SPEAKER_00: I mean, it was like bleeding everywhere.
- 16:57SPEAKER_00: I had to get stitches, it was like he just he just dug his claw into me.
- 17:00SPEAKER_00: I look at my hand right now, and I have to like compare which side was it on?
- 17:05SPEAKER_00: Because I don't even see it anymore.
- 17:07SPEAKER_00: And where did that healing happen?
- 17:09SPEAKER_00: The stitches helped it heal, but the healing happened inside of me.
- 17:13SPEAKER_00: It was the power coming from inside of me.
- 17:16SPEAKER_00: There is a field of of science called neuroplasticity.
- 17:21SPEAKER_00: This is that our nerves are continuously being regenerated.
- 17:26SPEAKER_00: We can create a new story in our body.
- 17:29SPEAKER_00: So if you're dealing with a chronic lower back pain, or you're dealing with chronic SI joint pain, chronic ankle pain, whatever it is, are we going to allow our world to get smaller or are we going to use our God-given strength to try to make it better?
- 17:44SPEAKER_00: So, what would that look like?
- 17:45SPEAKER_00: On my platform, what I say is we start with isometrics.
- 17:50SPEAKER_00: What is an isometric?
- 17:51SPEAKER_00: It is a low-level form of exercise, meaning low level of force input, where my joint, my muscles are achieving a certain level of contraction, my I'm in a certain position, pushing against an immovable object, whether that be another body part, the floor, a yoga block, gravity, whatever it is, the weight of my body, and I'm causing that tissue to contract gently to teach the nervous system to have a new plan, to give it a feeling of we're okay here.
- 18:21SPEAKER_00: And through isometric training, we can reduce that inflammation, we can reduce no susception, we can reduce pain, and we can slowly over time reduce our range of motion.
- 18:32SPEAKER_00: But temporarily, exercise might look like a little bit more recovery between sets.
- 18:39SPEAKER_00: It might look like we can move a little less than what we're used to.
- 18:45SPEAKER_00: It might look like we use a little less load for a while.
- 18:48SPEAKER_00: It might look like I'm gonna do a different kind of activity for a while with the goal of getting back to that activity for a while.
- 18:57SPEAKER_00: And it may look like I've got to, like for me it was I've got to give up stepaerobics.
- 19:02SPEAKER_00: I've got to give that up.
- 19:03SPEAKER_00: My knee is bone on bone.
- 19:04SPEAKER_00: Stepaerobics is probably not the best thing for me to be involved in, even though I do have lots of steps in my house and I step up and down my steps all the time.
- 19:12SPEAKER_00: So we do have the ability to change these neuropathways that can be affected by chronic pain.
- 19:18SPEAKER_00: And what about this idea that God also gives us this instead of the spirit of fear, he gives us the spirit of love.
- 19:25SPEAKER_00: We don't have to look at our body as though it's attacking us or there's something wrong, or that you know we're we're afraid of life.
- 19:33SPEAKER_00: We get to enjoy our life.
- 19:35SPEAKER_00: We get to enjoy our body.
- 19:37SPEAKER_00: If you're if you're catching yourself being upset with your body, and I've certainly seen, oh my gosh, women especially are so upset about the effects of aging.
- 19:47SPEAKER_00: It's like I hate my body, I hate the way it looks, I hate the way that it feels, I feel so depleted.
- 19:53SPEAKER_00: If we could go at our exercise program without loving our body, like, okay, I'm going to lovingly give my body what it needs today.
- 20:01SPEAKER_00: I'm going to lovingly give my body a little bit less intensity today.
- 20:06SPEAKER_00: I'm going to do 50% less today than I normally would do.
- 20:09SPEAKER_00: You know what happens?
- 20:11SPEAKER_00: I've seen this happen so many times.
- 20:13SPEAKER_00: The next day, you can do more because you have taught your nervous system that it's, I'm okay, I'm safe here, I will be fine.
- 20:22SPEAKER_00: And then over time, if you repeat this out of strength, out of love, what can happen?
- 20:29SPEAKER_00: We get healed.
- 20:30SPEAKER_00: So that's why the Bible always says that we must approach this with a sound mind, calming your nervous system, right?
- 20:37SPEAKER_00: Calming yourself.
- 20:38SPEAKER_00: So if we think about the idea of pain, I want you to ask yourself, and this is gonna be, I'm gonna call this our, what is our muscle memory of this episode?
- 20:47SPEAKER_00: When we think of fear, when we operate by fear, and fear can look like I'm gonna avoid these things, I'm going to stop participating in these things, I'm going to be fearful that something's going to happen to me.
- 21:00SPEAKER_00: I'm going to be fearful that if I participate in these things, I'm going to have a setback.
- 21:05SPEAKER_00: If you're doing these things, your world is getting smaller.
- 21:09SPEAKER_00: How does that look for you?
- 21:10SPEAKER_00: How does a smaller world heal from you?
- 21:13SPEAKER_00: Right?
- 21:14SPEAKER_00: Smaller world means that we have smaller opportunities to enjoy what life has to bring for us.
- 21:20SPEAKER_00: We have a smaller world in terms of what we can enjoy and what we can experience.
- 21:25SPEAKER_00: Life is short, my friends.
- 21:27SPEAKER_00: Do we really want to live in that kind of a prison?
- 21:30SPEAKER_00: But by the same token, strength is a much larger world.
- 21:36SPEAKER_00: If we can approach our fitness and our recovery with strength of a sound mind, with a logical approach, going from lesser to more, going from less input to more input, going from unstable, excuse me, from stable to unstable, from non-moving to moving, from less resistance to more resistance, from more rest to less rest, from slower to faster, all from the from the standpoint of having control as our currency, guess what?
- 22:08SPEAKER_00: We will actually have a larger world.
- 22:11SPEAKER_00: So again, fear creates a smaller world, but strength creates a larger world.
- 22:18SPEAKER_00: Which one do you want for yourself?
- 22:20SPEAKER_00: I hope that this episode helped you.
- 22:22SPEAKER_00: I hope that it inspired you.
- 22:24SPEAKER_00: If you know anyone that I can help, please forward them this episode.
- 22:28SPEAKER_00: Always, as always, if you like this episode, please give me a good ratings.
- 22:32SPEAKER_00: And also, feel free to check out my seven-day strength experience on FIS On Demand, where you can experience a progressive approach to strength training.
- 22:42SPEAKER_00: You just might find that you can experience a little short wind.
- 22:46SPEAKER_00: If you have any questions or comments, please feel free to leave them.
- 22:49SPEAKER_00: And I look forward to seeing you on the next episode.