Latest / The People Run Podcast / #13: Win the Mental Game with Maggie Goodman

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#13: Win the Mental Game with Maggie Goodman · The People Run Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: Retrain your brain to make peace with those assumptions.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, if you know that at mile 10 your body starts to freak out, okay, like give yourself a statement about that.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like, if my body starts to seize up at mile 10, it will be okay.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna keep going.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_02: And you start to tell yourself that.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um, or you can kind of flip it into more of like a like an if-then statement.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like, if my calves start to cramp, then I will do welcome back everyone, uh, to the People Run podcast.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Fitz here, and uh this is as you guys know, for those listening, or if anyone's new, where we dive into the stories behind everyday runners, those trying to out get it every day where it's work, family.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: But today's story or episode, I should say, is a little different.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I want to touch on the mental game of when it comes to running, and that's why I've asked today's guests to come on today.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: I have Maggie here with me, who's a sports psychologist, um, to talk about that mindset and what it takes to get to elite performance or improve just your steady performance.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm excited to talk uh all sports psychology, learn.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you learn as well.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's what this episode is for.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: Maggie, hello, welcome.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, thanks for uh participating and being on this podcast.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: How are you doing today?
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_02: I'm good.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for having me on.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, of course.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, you I was very excited to have you on one between the sports psychology, but also you uh into the fitness game.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: I should have said that a little bit as well.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: So Maggie knows what's up too when it comes to fitness.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: She's also a personal trainer.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I was like, oh, double whammy, double win.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: So um getting right into it, um, how did you start and get into sports psychology?
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: I believe you have a master's right in sports psychology.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: How does that even come about?
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's a good question.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_02: So I backtracking like a lot, I was a professional dancer, uh, mostly like on the concert dance side.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_02: So ballet and modern dance.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_02: That's what my bachelor's is in.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so danced professionally in my early 20s and kind of if you are familiar with the arts, realize like you need other jobs to kind of sustain your like living.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I got into personal training, was kind of doing both for a while and then segue completely into just being in fitness.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I kind of got to a point about four years into being a trainer where I was just kind of like, well, what do I want to do with this next?
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like I was making good money and I had a pretty good clientele, and I I obviously loved what I did, but I I was like, is this like the only thing I want to do for the rest of my life?
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I read um a couple different books.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, one was, I'm trying to remember, one was called The Mindful Athlete, which um that's by George Mumford, and he was like a mindset coach that worked with the Bulls and I think some other like elite basketball players.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, there's also a book, um, Relentless by Tim Grover.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_02: These were just like books that like just in my like professional world, just kind of I had heard about, and I was like, oh, like I'm kind of interested.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_02: Let me read them.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_02: And there was a lot of stuff in there about sports psychology and the mental side of being an elite athlete.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I just was like completely captivated by it.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_02: It just really interested me.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I kind of got researching and realized that that was kind of an up-and-coming degree um that people could get, and it was like a growing field.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I was like, you know what, this might be like a nice thing to like enhance who I am as a trainer, like open up more opportunities for me.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: So I ended up getting my master's um back in 2021.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: I went to the University of Western States out in uh Portland, Oregon, which they had like a completely online program.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_02: So I was able to do it without leaving Chicago, which was really nice.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, that's it kind of just like fell into place just through the other jobs I had.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: I love that um more so as a as a Bulls fan here and the Tim Grover plug of Relentless, which is a phenomenal book.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yes.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: I don't like his second one as much as I read the first one, but the first one talking about the mindset and hearing about Kobe Jordan, uh D-Wade, um, his uh shade on LeBron a little bit.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_02: He does, yeah, he does shade on LeBron a little bit.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: And you know what?
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: I have the second book, but I haven't read it yet.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's like on my like to be read list, and I haven't um it's like on my bookshelf.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_02: I need to read it.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um I love that you started into this with with Relentless and Talking Mot Sports.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: You my ears are already like, okay, let's go.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and if you like haven't, you know, if you're listening, you haven't read that book.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_02: It's honestly like even if you're not into basketball, I'm not even, I'm not a big basketball person.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um like it's just like a really fascinating book about the mind of like an elite performer.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's kind of I think he Tim was also in The Last Dance, which you like people I feel like from all over just like fell in love with that documentary.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_02: So it's kind of like a book version of that in a way.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's just like a really, really interesting read.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I would I would second that, especially with The Last Dance.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: I think almost everyone I knew watched it, even people that weren't in sports.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's just seeing what it took to be at the elite and like the sacrifice and and the pain and all that that's probably a top something show, top 100s of the last couple of 2020s or whatever.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, definitely.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: Well, um, you train as well and you personal train, right?
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: And now you're a sports psychologist.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: What um correlations do you see from you training and now actually being a sports uh psychologist that helps you?
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_02: That's a really good question.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like obviously, like a lot of my training clients are actually some of them are like not professional athletes, but they're they're very athletic and like are training for a marathon or whatnot, even just for like my everyday clients, like people that are just like, I want to get toned, I want to get fit, I want to build strength.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_02: The a lot of like the pillars of sports psychology kind of revolve around like motivation and goal setting and like conf just confidence building.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like a lot of times when people decide they want to get on a fitness track, they have a fitness goal, it's kind of like they don't really know where to start.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, or maybe the motivation is there for the wrong reasons, or you know, they're they're nervous to be in a gym setting, or they they know they want to get fit, but they don't really know like what goals to set, that kind of thing.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like that kind of stuff has translated really, really well.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: Before I start training with a client, I usually sit them down and I'm like, why do you want to work with a trainer?
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what are what is your why?
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, do you have like back problems that you want to try to, you know, achieve, you know, you want to feel better in your body, or like maybe you're pregnant and you want to have a really healthy pregnancy.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_02: I try to like steer away from some of those like external motivators, like, well, I just want to lose 10 pounds, or like I just want to fit into like a certain pant size, you know.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_02: So I feel like some of the stuff that I learned in school, the like confidence building, the the ways to properly set goals, that's is the kind of thing I really see as like an overlap between like working with athletes and then like working with people in a personal training setting.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: For those athletes that uh it's a it's a kind of convoluted question.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: So we have social media, we have our mindset here in Western culture, call it if you will, the go, go, go, hustle nonstop every day.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'll put that as context out there, but what do you say to those athletes?
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: For example, us runners, often I find it's like, okay, I want to hit this PR, I want to hit this marathon.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: Unfortunately, unless someone's wise enough or has gone through those like tribulations, it's I want to do it in three, four months.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not giving myself enough time, I'm gonna just run through a wall and it's that go, go, go, I'll do whatever it takes.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: How do you get them to, like you mentioned in the previous, acknowledge those small wins and acknowledge, hey, this is gonna take time.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: And if you want to do it the right way and not get injured and not run through a wall, external stress factors, how do you get them to slow down?
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_02: That's really hard.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_02: And honestly, like I've I've recently started working with a lot of runners, and it's been very eye-opening to like how crazy they train.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I just like can't believe like when I talk to them each week and they're like, I ran like 20 miles total this week, broken down like that, and I'm just like, oh my god, like the trainer part of me is always like, How are you taking care of your body?
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_02: First of all, there is this level of like, yeah, I want to like run at my max or I want to PR at X, you know, time.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_02: And if I don't, then I'm gonna be like super upset.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_02: And so for me, I mean, usually when I talk to my runners in a session, the first thing if they've had a race, the first thing I ask is, let's talk about everything good that happened.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_02: So I want them to acknowledge those wins first.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_02: And it's obviously okay to have those days where you're like, I didn't run to the best of my ability, or like, I really wish I could have done this or like whatever.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm like, first of all, we got to acknowledge the good things because there's at least like one good thing that happened.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of the runners I've been working with are prepping for the Chicago.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_02: I'm out in Chicago and they're prepping for the Chicago Marathon, which is in October.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and it's a pretty big one.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_02: And luckily, a lot of the ones I've been working with, I've been working with since the beginning of the year.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_02: So we've had like a lot of time to really prep and get into the like mental work that comes with it.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_02: And they've been running a lot of smaller races along the way that are almost like dress rehearsals.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_02: The dancer to me is going to call it a dress rehearsal, but they are.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: They're a dress rehearsal for the yeah, for the big one.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, if a runner were to come to me in like a month in like August and the marathons in October, um, I'd be like, okay, yeah, we have some work to do.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like you should probably, we should be meeting weekly.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_02: You have, I kind of give some homework, but because it takes time to build the self-talk and the imagery skills that are needed and learning where your focus needs to be for different things.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_02: And even right now, as I'm working with runners, it's eye-opening for them.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's also eye-opening for me.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like when they have a shorter 5K versus a marathon, like what mental prep work comes with that and how it's different.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_02: Because a marathon training is going to be different than your 5K or your one mile race or even a half.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_02: So we kind of like go through all those different things.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but to like kind of go back a little bit, like the whole PR, you know, I didn't PR, I'm upset about it.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_02: I want to celebrate small wins first.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_02: And then we can go back and be like, okay, like where did like where is there room for improvement?
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_02: What things do you want to change for next time?
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_02: And then because they're practicing so often also with their coach, what things can you now add into your practice with your coach to like start to implement some of those changes?
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I feel that's important.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: And and for those listening, it's you know, real simple acknowledging those wins.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, Chicago's coming.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, a lot of people uh I've had here or I know of friends, uh, everyone's training for Chicago.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: It is a major.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I did it last year.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: It was kind of brutal for me, but uh, I didn't have but best race, but like you mentioned, it was one of those things where where I'm at with my running now, I was able to like, hey, this didn't work out, but this did, this did, this did.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's something I'm implementing now.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: Mine's a little bit later this year.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm doing it uh one in November.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: But uh, you know, for those listening, uh first nugget or several, I think, at this point, but is Ignaz those wins, you know.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you picked up better cadence, you know, maybe you were a little faster uh the majority of the race.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you feel you hydrated better.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: Uh that said, Maggie, I want to ask you now that you're working with a lot of because this is gonna be exciting, one to me and also for those listening.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: You're working with a lot of people running for Chicago.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: One of the for now I'm gonna say one of my favorite majors just because it's very flat.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: Chicago's awesome.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: We kind of talked about it.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so uh my first one was New York and Hilly, and now we have Sydney, which is pretty much a mountain.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: Uh insane.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: But what are some common uh trends you're seeing amongst these runners?
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: I suspect a few, but I'm curious from your angle as a sports psychologist that you're seeing amongst these runners because I'm sure you're dealing with some.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: You've already hinted for those listening.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: What are what are you seeing amongst these people training?
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm sure you're seeing different levels, you know, someone training more, someone training less.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_02: Uh correct.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_02: Some people are training way more.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_02: Some people are running a lot more of those smaller, like one mile, 5K races.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_02: They're kind of doing even like one a week.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and the interesting thing there is like, okay, like which races can you kind of treat as like fun runs?
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I think, because I'm like, you can't keep every race at this level where the marathon is.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you will burn yourself out.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_02: So it's easier said than done.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like most of my runners are like, yeah, that's fine.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_02: I can run that one mile and have fun with it.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_02: And then like they don't do the time they want, and then they're upset.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, kind of how do we not view this as a setback?
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_02: Some of my other runners are, it's actually interesting.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of them are actually, they don't like the shorter races, like the 5Ks and the one miles.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you don't, yeah, it's I find it so interesting because I am more of a recreational, like I run, but I run for fun.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I do not, I you will probably never see me running a full marathon.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_02: And for me, I'm like, oh, one mile seems way easier.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_02: You run one mile, you put all your energy in, and you're you're done.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's like seven minutes of your life, eight minutes, six minutes.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_02: And a lot of my runners are just like, no, like I'd rather run, you know, 10K half full marathon.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, which I that was something that was like very interesting for me.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_02: And it's it's a pretty consistent trend, at least with most of my runners, not all of them, but that idea of like they want to do more halves, they want to do more long runs.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and a lot of them, I mean, they do like their training multiple times a week.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_02: They do their speed work.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_02: They're kind of playing around with like, okay, like, where do we taper off?
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_02: Where do we do shorter runs and kind of mimic that like mile time that they want to keep consistent?
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I would say like another thing that a lot of runners I'm working with are working on is how do I not start out of the gate too fast and then like burn out like closer to the end of the race?
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um, even with like shorter races, that can happen.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and how do I keep consistent?
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, or if I do start not at the pace I want to start at, like how do I not get super negative toward the end of the race or like panic or you know, that is definitely, you know, something that I feel like across the board I'm working on with runners is consistency, but also like how do we deal with that setback in the middle of the race if it happens, which is like the mental game, right?
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, uh that that's it's funny.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm hearing a lot of the common trends you see amongst runners, and I'm sure for those listening who you're hearing some commonality.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: So it's interesting to see like you as a sports psychologist are seeing it too, and at different levels are running.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'm curious at what what uh what do you tell them for like self-talk and and to help make that shit?
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: For example, you mentioned one which is super common, and no matter if you're the fastest in the world or or like you're just a recreational runner where like, oh yeah, I know I'm supposed to start slow because the data and everything out there says you should start a little slower and then ease into your pace.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: But the gun goes off, there's thousands of people near you, your adrenaline is pumping, you're excited, and boom, out the window goes the plan that your coach created for you.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: And then you know, some can like shift because they have it in the mindset.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, look, I I started out too hot, let me slow down, and some just blow up.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: What's some of the self-talk you work them through to like think about or cues or anchors and that kind of stuff?
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that's a really good question.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_02: So, a lot of what I do with like athletes and artists across the board is self-talk because self-talk takes a lot of time.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and usually like the self-talk we have for ourselves, it's all habitual.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_02: So it takes a lot of time to fix a habit, basically.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_02: And not to say everyone's self-talk is like negative, but like a lot of people don't have the most helpful self-talk.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_02: So how do we like make it helpful?
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but basically, like we're starting weeks before.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_02: And there's a kind of a couple things that I do when it comes to self-talk.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_02: One is for running or for any sport really, day of like what instructional things you need to be telling yourself as you're going out there.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm gonna run at X pace, I'm gonna do this with my breathing, I'm gonna do this with my gait.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you're kind of like listing, even though it might seem kind of elementary, like it's stuff that you feel like you know how to do.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_02: You need to start repeating those instructional things to yourself, first of all, like to get it in your head beforehand.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_02: And then when you're in the race, if something doesn't go according to plan, that's what you're gonna be telling yourself is that like those instructions to help you kind of you kind of even said it, like get you back to where you're supposed to be.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_02: So that's the first part.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_02: The second thing that I always tell people is um for a race, and it's probably different for different races depending on the weather, depending on the amount of people running the race.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, the marathon's gonna have a ton of people.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um, there was just a race here in Chicago that was on July 4th, which is always notoriously like super, super hot.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_02: So, like if you know you don't run well in the heat, like those kinds of things, start to normalize any assumptions you're making about the race and retrain your brain to make peace with those assumptions.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_02: So, like if you know that at mile 10 your body starts to freak out, okay, like give yourself a statement about that.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like, if my body starts to seize up at mile 10, it will be okay.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna keep going.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_02: And you start to tell yourself that.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, or you can kind of flip it into more of like a like an if-then statement.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like, if my calves start to cramp, then I will do this.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like, so you're kind of already settling some of those presumptions because they are just assumptions.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you don't know if they're gonna happen.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_02: But I want people to be at peace with what they're doing when they enter the track or whatever.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love that, especially that last part.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like um, this is probably a horrible explanation.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: You probably have a better one, but like um, it's kind of like you know that you tend to do something at XYZ model, like you mentioned, and you know that your mind elevates to here.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: This is the bad explanation part.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: But because you're already acknowledging it pre before, it comes down to here.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, excuse my gibberish for those watching.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_02: No, that's that that makes sense.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_02: That's like exactly what it is.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_02: Like you're making yourself at peace with anything you're worried about before it even starts.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because they're all assumptions.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you don't know if you're gonna overheat, you don't know if you're gonna, you know, feel leg pain, but you might.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_02: So let's re-retrain your brain a little bit.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_02: I always tell people I'm working with it's not necessarily like I feel like in a lot of times in like media and stuff, it's like positive self-talk.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_02: Everything needs to be positive.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, to a point, but like it's not all gonna be sunshine and rainbows.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm not gonna tell you to think that way.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I want you to prepare, which is I think like one of the biggest things about mental skills training and sports psychology is we're preparing you so you can be your best.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's not like everything's not gonna be positive, positive all the time.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so yeah, that's that's perfect way of saying it.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: That that reminds me of uh Connor Mant.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: He's our top American marathoner right now, and he's running Chicago.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: Uh he likely will beat, I'm hoping so, the American record for US, which hasn't been broken in a long time.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: That said, I I remember trying to remember what race it was.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was New York or one of his earlier races last year.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: He had talked about, and I think he was working with a sports psychologist as well, and something about how he dedicated the last few miles to each person, like his wife and other people.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: And that was his mental like mile 19, this person, my sports coach, uh, mile 20, my fitness coach, mile 30, my wife, you know.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: Well, not 30, but you get the point 26.2.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it's it's interesting to hear that as as you know, acknowledging your weaknesses, it kind of sounds like, but uh getting ahead of the curve with it.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um now my brain is going on, I don't know, and I'll pivot this to ask you like what role does philosophy play in all this?
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: Because as we're saying this out loud, I'm thinking of uh Greek philosophy, uh obstacle is the way, stoicism, and that kind of stuff, which is a fair topic of mine.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: I won't go into delve into that too much, but what role does philosophy play into all this?
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_02: It can be very like motivational, and that's the other like piece of all of this is like sometimes you just need a like mantra or a motivator or like some sort of statement that's gonna kind of just like that guy, like just like something that will just kind of help push you toward those last couple miles.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_02: And that's where I bring out that.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, maybe you just need a phrase that's something that resonates with you, or something that's really important to you, or maybe it's like as simple as you've got this, or what you know, whatever.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_02: But sometimes you need that, that instead of like like some elaborate self-talk thing.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: So like you start to like know what you need.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_02: And that's also why I like to start working with runners in advance so that it's not just about the marathon.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_02: Like we start to know, like, okay, remember that half marathon you did in June?
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_02: These were the things that happened.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_02: So you know that you do better with this kind of self-talk or you do better with this using this kind of imagery or you know, whatever in your toolbox.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like, my job is to present you with as many tools as possible so you can also figure out like the best things that work for you on your race day.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_02: Because maybe certain things aren't gonna work for you, and that's okay.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_02: But sometimes also like for the prep, if you know that you run a little more anxious and you need something that's gonna calm you down, maybe there's certain like philosophies.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Philosophy ideas or things that kind of like can calm your nervous system, and that's also a super important piece of your like pre-race routine.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: Gotcha.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: I I want to run a common one that's common nowadays because of how big running is.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: What do you say to someone who goes because they're looking at Strava or social media or their favorite athlete, or maybe they're just relating to sports?
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we have yeah some triathletes on here as well, and it's like, okay, oh, I'm too slow, I'm not gonna hit my time.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, and they just shut down completely because of they're not gonna hit their time and they feel they're too slow, or they're comparison, comparing each other to like the next person on Strava or their friend or whatever who is supposed to be at their same level.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's super common in almost every sport or art that I work with is like comparison and the idea of like, oh, I'm not gonna hit that time, or I'm not gonna do that.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so there's like two different pieces to that.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_02: One that's a cognitive distortion.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_02: That's like something you're telling yourself that you don't know for sure if it's true.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_02: So the very beginning of me working with athletes on their self-talk, everyone gets like this very cute little worksheet with a list of like all 10 cognitive distortions.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_02: There's 10.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_02: And if you have a thought like that, like I'm not gonna hit my six-minute mile time because you know, my kid was up all night crying, or like it could be an excuse or it could be like uh, I'm just not good enough to do it or whatever.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna be like, okay, so that's just something you're saying.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's not a fact necessarily.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, obviously, like you also know your body and you need to be realistic with yourself.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_02: So that's why we go back to goal setting and we're like, we're setting realistic goals.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so if you know it's realistic for you to have have a six-minute mile, like that's absolutely a real thing.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_02: Then if you're telling yourself it's not possible, well, why?
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_02: We'll go into like confidence, you know.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_02: Usually it's usually it's just a self-talk thing.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_02: So we're like pull out the cognitive distortion.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_02: I have the person say it out loud to themselves, like, realize how this sounds, label it, and then we reframe it.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_02: So we'll reframe it into a more helpful self-talk statement.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I do that probably like a hundred times with my athletes.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's just something that you're constantly retraining your brain.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_02: But I mean, the other, yeah, the other piece of that is self-awareness, right?
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like if you know there's a certain milestone that you're not, it's not possible for you to achieve.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_02: I'm working with some athletes that are in their 60s and they're faster than I am.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_02: They're like really fast runners.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_02: Are they gonna be running at the same speed as like a 30-year-old?
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_02: Probably not.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_02: But that's also the self-awareness, then of like, what is my standard of excellence and how am I going to get there?
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_02: And that can't be, you know, Susie's standard of excellence or whoever's standard of standard of excellence.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_02: It's kind of like understanding your own abilities.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_02: And that is like a very early on thing that I work with athletes on.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I want you to hit your goals and do things that you didn't think were possible, but also we have to be like realistic with your goals and like what is possible.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I love that again.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the identity piece.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: Without, you know, learning psychology, I found that's one thing that's always helped me.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like do identify as XYZ person, you know, then usually you got to follow what traits does XYZ person let's say it's a six-minute mile, you're not there yet.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, what does the six-minute mile person do?
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: How do they show up?
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then can you do that?
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, right.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like runners, we all love to uh you know a lot of them.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: We all love to talk about running.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you can be in a work set, you can be at a wedding, and the first thing they're gonna tell you is, yeah, I ran so-and-so marathon last week two weeks ago.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um that's all our identity, you know?
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um on that note, exactly.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: How do you help someone whose identity is all running and maybe they're performing at whatever they feel is their you know standard of excellence, but they recently got injured or something stops them.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um that's questioning to a lot of us.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, injuries are um detrimental to a running season.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_02: It's really hard.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_02: It's hard to come back from an injury.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_02: I've I'm working with a couple of runners who had didn't get to run the marathon last year, and this is their first marathon back.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, kind of talking through like overcoming that fear of reinjury, which luckily like most people I feel like I'm working with right now in that in running at least are not dealing with like the fear of reinjury.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, if you're like working really hard and you have a setback like injury, sickness, maybe there's another reason that you can't keep up your training the way that you can.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, first of all, we take a step back and we're like, okay, like understanding like the what is controllable and what is not.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_02: Right now, there's nothing you can do that's within your control to like get you running again.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_02: Almost like a different set of self-talk and a different understanding of confidence and like the idea that you are not your injury and this idea of resiliency, like, how can you move forward when you are injured?
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what things do you need to do?
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, a lot of times, if there's no running's the only thing you do, it's your only hobby.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_02: If you have that like high level of enmeshment, then it's also like, well, what else can we find in your life that's important to you that's not running?
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_02: Which is a huge thing for all athletes because you're like so consumed in what you do and you don't want to take any time off because you feel like you always have to be practicing, which isn't always healthy.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, there's also that piece of like, what else is going on in your life?
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe this is for some reason you have to take a break from running.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_02: The other interesting part of dealing with an injury is it gives you a good opportunity to use imagery, which is really, really hard for people, but it's also a really great mental tool, whether you're preparing for a race and you are actively running or you are injured because you can mentally practice without physically practicing.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_02: So um, it's really hard for people to do correctly because you have to use all of your senses.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_02: And so sometimes people are like, well, how do I use taste when I'm doing mental imagery?
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_02: Or how am I using sound or touch?
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so we do imagery exercises, and I'll usually be like, pick a song that is on the like beat of the mile time you want to be running, or okay, you know, something that's like a motivator for you.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_02: That's your sound.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_02: Or sometimes it could be like the cheering of the crowd or you know, some other things.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so we get into that idea of deliberate practice.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, there's like a theory that it takes 10,000 hours of practicing something to achieve like a mastery level.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_02: That can also be done mentally because you're using those same like parts of your brain to achieve that skill.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_02: So imagery is a great time or a great it's a great time to do imagery when you're recovering from an image, uh, an injury because you're kind of keeping that part of your mind active.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: That's interesting.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, essentially, especially using the five senses, you know.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: I I got a lot of ideas just hearing that.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: You hear um, funny enough, almost all my marathons, just naturally, I always pick a a song that's kind of like my theme.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just puss me up, you know.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes I envision, like, okay, and I never hear it because you know, Bluetooth, I don't run with headphones anymore, but like you can't the Bluetooth doesn't work well at races, but there's always some song in the back of my head that like, okay, when miletony hits and I'm dying here, this is what's in my head.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so true.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_02: It can be a great motivator.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_02: There's also um like a metronome app that I've shared with my runners that like I know it sounds weird, but like if you know there's like a cadence you want to be running at, that like beat of the metronome, you can like adjust it to where you want it to be, and that could be a great just like sound to have when you're doing your mental imagery.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, not weird at all.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's a common practice that uh, well, not too common, but like for those that do work on their cadence to like try to use a metronome.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: Some watches have it.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: I've heard of things of like, hey, Spotify, you can easily search a playlist depending on BPM.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, say it's 170 you want to hit, you could just search it and they'll give you your favorite songs, whether it be Taylor Swift, uh Metallica, or or you know, Post Malone or someone, whoever.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm throwing random names there.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: But uh that that's that's pretty cool.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like to think of the imagery, and it's perfect, like you said, of doing what you when you can't do something, what can you do?
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's uh obviously where my mind goes a lot, but it did take a lot to get there.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: I often think when I'm injured or sideline, it's like, okay, can I lift more?
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, can I hit the gym more?
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I can't use this leg, can I use the other one?
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: Can I work on upper body?
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so to kind of hear it in another spin of okay, you can use imagery in the senses, that's that's pretty awesome.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: And um, something I think you guys should uh, whoever's listening, uh maybe let's give it a shot and try it out.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: Next PR incoming.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um I want to touch on kind of similar, but I'm sure you work with this a lot, and I believe I saw it also that you do work with some athletes that have this.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: What do you say to someone who this is the typical runner here, and and actually I believe it applies to all spots when you sports when you try to get elite level body image, wanting to lose weight and under eating, maybe it's a mom post-pregnancy.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: I want to get back to what I did before.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: How do you work with that?
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: And and what do you say to someone like that?
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_02: Body image is really hard and uh full transparency, like being a former professional dancer, like I definitely struggled with a lot of body image issues and a lot of like it's it's body image is such a mental thing too, because it's like how you're perceiving yourself.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_02: So the idea of like accept like self-acceptance is really, really hard.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_02: For runners, it's interesting because you have to stay fueled.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_02: Otherwise, you're not gonna be running at the you know levels you wanna be running at.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_02: So if someone is like feeling self-conscious about the way they look, I kind of again go back to like that self-talk of like, okay, like why do you feel this way?
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like what, you know, why is your mind telling you this?
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_02: And then we try to rephrase it because it is this like mental, you know, of like our society has in our heads like this is how you need to be looking at as an athlete or as a dancer, this is you know, this body image for men and women.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it's kind of like how do we like take ourselves out of that?
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_02: And what is having an in-shape body mean to you individually as a person?
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like, um, if it's like I need to have a six pack, it's like kind of like going back to that, like, what's your why?
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, well, why do you need a six pack?
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what is this serving for you that you need to look like this way?
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_02: Kind of going back to like happy weight, like where you feel your best.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_02: If someone, you know, a personal training person comes up to me and they're like, I used to be, I was 130 pounds at one point.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_02: I felt my best.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't have back pain.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_02: I just felt, you know, really in shape.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_02: I felt really confident at that weight.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_02: Cool.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I like the reasoning behind it is there.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_02: I'm all for feeling good in your body.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what do you love about your body?
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what, you know, things do you want to maybe be able to show off?
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_02: Or like what makes you proud as an athlete or as a everyday person?
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_02: Like, let's work on those things.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_02: But a lot of times with body image, it ends up kind of circling back to those, like that inner dialogue because it is so mental and it is like all about your own identity.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_02: So I kind of want to know like, what is your self-identity and how does that tie to how you view your body?
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_02: And then let's like work on like kind of keeping that united in like a healthy way.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: Got it.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_00: So, like you get them to pretty much acknowledge, like, hey, this is you know where I want to be.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_00: And it sounds like you work to the root cause of it and and what why they're feeling that way.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what does that process seem like once you start working on those things and and they eventually get to at least a happy medium, maybe?
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: What does that look like and turnaround?
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_02: So it kind of goes back to also celebrating wins and progress um versus like one little idea that we have in our heads.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_02: That's like the biggest thing that I like to tell people and that I like to measure.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_02: And that's also why, specifically with personal training clients, like unless they tell me no, I'm like, well, let's track what you're lifting, let's track, you know, how fast you're running.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, let's track not track necessarily, but like let's check in on how you're sleeping, let's check in on your stress levels.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_02: And then some of my clients too, I prefer sometimes with especially with women, like doing just body like measurements over the scale, because sometimes it's maybe I didn't lose the weight I want to, but like my waist went down a couple inches and I'm fitting better in jeans.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_02: To me, that's like more important than, oh, the scale moved a few pounds.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_02: So like we track that stuff too, unless I have a client that's like, I don't want to do that, and then we don't.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_02: But kind of understanding where you're at and like celebrating those wins.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that takes time and like self-acceptance and kind of building confidence and having better self-talk, you know, all those things need to kind of fall into place.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_02: It's a really good question.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's something that comes up in runners, I'm sure, a lot.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I know it for certain, you know, just to give you a more specific scenario, you look at the quote unquote typical runner, top 20-30 finishers, you know, some of them are from Africa, some of them are American, some of them are from UK, wherever.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: And on the woman's side, it's probably sub 130 pounds, 120, 110 at times.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: On the guy side, unless they're tall, which tall is a whole nother aspect because typically they're not always as tall.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: There are some, but it's 150, 130, and they're super lean and shredded, and there's this whole thing with running where it's like, I need to lose weight and be very light in order to be fast.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: But then you also have now with the advent of hybrid athletes, highrocks, and and and social media, where you got the supermuscular lady or woman or guy here um that's like shredded and huge, like 200 pound on muscular and still hitting sub three hours.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_00: It comes from both angles, is what I'm saying.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I guess if you give a one two-liner on that, I know there's more that goes into and this takes time to practice, but what would you say to someone like that?
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_02: I would say try not to compare yourself to others, which is easier said than done.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_02: But if I could only say one line, I would say you are not that person.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_02: And you kind of don't know what's going on in other people's lives.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like we see these people that are super shredded or super lean or super whatever.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_02: And like, I'm like, you don't know how healthy they are.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_02: You don't know, you know, what else is going on at home.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_02: You don't know.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, now in Hollywood, we're comparing ourselves to women that are all on like Ozempic.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, you don't know like the ins and outs of everything they're doing.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_02: So you can only worry about you.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_02: You can't pay attention to what they're doing.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_02: You you can only worry about what you're doing, how you're prepping, how you're training.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because at the end of the day, the only thing you can really change as much as you can is you.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_02: You can't change what other people are doing or how they're looking.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_02: And it's it's you're right, it just takes a lot of time um to like get to that point where you're like, I don't really care, or like I can't pay attention.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_02: And the whole running, like Strava is so interesting because I didn't know what it was until I started working with runners.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, oh, you guys have a whole social media don't dedicated to comparing yourself to others, which you know, it's like I it's good and it's bad.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's like an Instagram with stats, which is even crazier because it would be like if Instagram went, hey, here's the person you're following.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_00: What's all the things people love on Instagram nowadays?
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_00: This person is worth so-and-so, this person has this house, this person has this dream job.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's what's trauma.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_02: And it can be motivating for some of them.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like they'll see, like, oh, so-and-so went out and did this like five-mile run.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I should get out and run.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like, there's certain like good parts to it, but there's also a lot of bad of that like comparison of oh, like there they did this, they did that.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_02: No, I want to do it.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_02: They got first place at this race.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I I why didn't I get first?
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_02: You know, so it's like it spirals into that negative self-talk and self-doubt, where at the end of the day, it's like you're not being self-aware then because you're kind of shifting the blame or the focus onto someone that's not you.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I find that um this is just my take.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_00: So for anyone listening or or or Maggie, if you have a difference of opinion here, but um I feel like we're in a good place partially um with a lot of things, you know, not just running in general, where there's so much information out there that you can find a solution and do something to anything at this point, versus just to take running, for example.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_00: 10 years ago, running was hey, go drink Gatorade and Coca-Cola and go run 26 miles.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, now we know you need to fuel, you should be lifting.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we got, hey, you might want to talk to a sports psychologist, you want to be resting, you should manage your stress levels.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_00: We know all these things, but at the same time, there's 40 variations of that.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_00: So this is the partial part, whereas there's so much information that it causes people into analysis paralysis.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then they don't move forward because there's so much out there.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um do you agree with that?
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, I agree with that.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_02: I think that especially I think social media is a huge part of it where like I'll get clients, personal training and runners, and you know, other where they'll be like, I saw this on TikTok.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what do you think of, you know, and it's like you get told like so many different things that it's overwhelming and our body or our minds were not meant to take in all this information.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_02: You could say that about a lot of things that you see on social media.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_02: So it's kind of like knowing not to be like, you know, with a lot of athletes I work with, I'm like, do you have a timer on your Instagram?
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like, are you like kind of regulating what you're taking in?
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and you know, when I work with athletes, I'm also like I get to know them enough that I can be like, that's not really like what you should be focusing on, or like, is this something that's really helping you?
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_02: Because I do agree, we're taking in way too much information, and usually it's not all good information.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, I'm sure you get athletes, and I know you work with dancers, performing arts, and and people just want to work on performance, whether it be work and whatnot.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm sure you get people that just come up to you like, hey, I want to do this, and it's like a blog, a post, uh TikTok or an Instagram.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what are some of the things or tips you would say for people in this day?
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_00: I feel it's very needed to refocus, I'll say, because focus can be a cliche.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_02: Everyone needs to have like some sort of structure to their day, which I find sometimes with focus and doom scrolling and like getting on these weird tangents with different things.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, I know it sounds crazy, like it's not crazy, but it's just like you'd be surprised how many people were I'm like, okay, like do you have a schedule for like how you're running your day?
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_02: And they're kind of like, well, like I wake up and then I do this, and then like, I mean, obviously we have work, like you know, most of my athletes have normal nine to fives or whatever, but I'm like, sometimes you need things in a calendar.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_02: You like I have a lot of clients that have ADHD.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, you might need three calendars.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_02: You're like, you need like different ways, things that you're checking off where we'll do.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like, do you have your like three must-do tasks for the morning and actually check it off?
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like things to kind of say on tasks so that you're not like constantly ping-ponging around.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and when I work with student athletes, I'm working with a couple right now and they're all on summer break.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm like, how are you structuring your day?
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_02: And of course they're like, I don't want to, you know, I want to play all day until I have to go, you know, do whatever I'm doing with my sports.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_02: So that's also a balance of like, you want to take your time to enjoy, but you also need some structure.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_02: I think like so many people don't have a solid routine.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_02: And that also goes back to like when we prep for like the marathon.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like trying to get all my runners to have a pre-race routine.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_02: But that also starts with not just the day before the race or the night before the race.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_02: It starts with like the weeks leading up to the race.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what is your routine?
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and like what do you need to do for you and your body to be at that point?
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love that.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think organization is definitely important.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think anyone, no matter what level, especially if we're talking marathon or just performance in general, the times you've had success, organization played a key role.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's just not just the training, it could just be like, okay, on this day I spend this time with family, and you know, on this day I do this.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um we we we all, especially runners, you know, we all training, we're all about our training.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_00: We have our speed days that we never want to let go, and our long ones we don't want to let go.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_00: And and for the most part, most people will get in, especially at the marathon versus like other distances.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_00: But um, what role does stress recovery play in sports psychology or doing things other than running so that you do have like a uh this is I'll overshare here a little bit.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I've dealt with at times where like my central nervous system is that go, go, go coffee all the time nonstop, where like eventually my body just shuts down.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I I mentally I'm ready to run through a brick wall and do 26.2 tomorrow, but the body's like, no.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_02: It's super common in athletes because uh athletes and artists are perfectionists, so they like feel like they constantly have to be working at 100%, um, which obviously is like not possible um and leads to burnout.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_02: And whether you burn out after like a week of running that high or months, it's important to know like When you need to give your body recovery, whether that's mentally, physically, both.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_02: First of all, I think that like also comes into like the idea of like injury recovery or like building resiliency.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like when you put all your eggs in one basket, if everything's in just running, I run, run, run, run, run, then if something not so great happens, it's like you have nothing else.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it's harder to be resilient.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_02: If you have like, you know, maybe it's quality time with your family every week, or like, you know, you you read or you garden or you have some other hobby, then at least like it's like you have this other part of yourself, which is really important.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_02: And it's not to say that your sport can't be a huge chunk of who you are, but it is important to have like time dedicated for other things in your life.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and maybe that means like Sunday is dedicated to I'm gonna go to my garden for a couple hours and do XYZ, or like I'm gonna spend time with my significant other.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_02: We have a standing like date day on Saturday nights or Sundays or whatever.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so just kind of like making that that should be part of your routine and your structure to have those other things mixed in there.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I also tell people to think about when they're like, well, like I'm not training, like what am I gonna do if I'm not training?
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_02: Think of like how these other things you're doing are helping you.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_02: If you're always training and always running and always doing whatever it is your sport is and that forces you to burn out, you're not helping yourself.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_02: So if you're giving yourself that time off or that time to do something else that you love, you're actually kind of helping your running career because you're giving yourself that break that you need because you are gonna need the break.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like sometimes it's like everyone knows it, but they don't want to hear it.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_02: And then when they hit a breaking point, they're like, shoot, I should have done that.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, another thing I'll tell people that feel like they have too much on their plate or they're trying to juggle like running a lot of days a week or you know, balancing running and work is I'll be like, okay, you know what?
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_02: On Sunday, I want you to sit down and I want you to write out all the things that you need to do this week, whether it's like, I need to do my three runs, I need to do, you know, this for work, I need to do, I need to take care of my, you know, parent, whatever it is that like the priority, the priorities, write them out on Sunday and rank them.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_02: And then like make sure those are the things that you get done and all the other stuff, don't worry about it.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like kind of understanding where to like put priorities.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because you can't do everything.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_02: You can't do everything in a day, you can't do everything in a week.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, it's also for runners when they tell me all they're running, I'm like, well, when are you gonna do your cross-training?
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like, when are you gonna do like your foam rolling, your warmups, your, you know, your lifting?
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_02: Like, maybe instead of running like five days a week, you do four days a week, but you may give yourself a day to cross-train because that's also gonna help you as a runner.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I think runners like to forget about the other, you know, I'm like, yeah.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_00: We're all guilty of it.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you're on a hot streak, runs are going amazing, you have a whole few months of just awesome runs and a lot of mileage, and then you're like, oh, wait a minute, I haven't been doing strength training, and then boom, uh, something comes knocking on that door and it's like Uh-huh, an injury.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's a little late now.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, that that's uh definitely one uh everyone listening.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, take heed on that one, you know, scheduling your recovery and and your uh side time, your cost training.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, we've had a lot of runners on here, but you're also hearing it from a sports psychologist now, so it's it's gotta be real.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Maggie, I want to ask you a set of quick rapid questions here.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of curated just for you.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we've touched on some, so I'll skip some one, but I'll start with the first one.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_00: What is uh one thing?
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_00: You can do several if you like, that runners should stop telling themselves.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_02: One thing.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um uh let's see.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_02: I think one thing that they should stop telling themselves is I'm gonna burn myself out at X mile.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's one of the most common things I hear.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's different miles for different people, but just don't think about it.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_02: Don't think that you're gonna burn yourself out or that you're not gonna make it.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_00: That that's uh that's an interesting one to hear that people are looking for a burnout.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_00: I try to avoid those.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_02: They're like, oh, I always, it's always mile nine.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_02: I just like, you know, like I start, you know, like that kind of thing.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, don't think about mile, you know, like try to think of each, you know, don't think about it.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_02: Just don't worry about it.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like, don't worry about the future.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_02: Worry about like where you're at now.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_00: No, and like you said, you give enough tips earlier where it's like, hey, if that's something that always happens, you know, what's what can you start telling yourself now?
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_00: You're not thinking about that the day of.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_02: I think if I had to add one more, uh I sorry, I know you said one.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_02: Don't worry about people pa don't worry about people passing you.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_00: Ooh, that's a good one.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, that's another one where I hear like, oh, they passed me, and then I like got flustered, and I'm like, do not worry about people passing you.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_00: The old cliche run your race, a lot harder to do when you're in the race, but um run your race.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_00: What's uh one mental skill runners should train or just endurance athletes in general, cyclists, runners, uh sports, lifting, uh one mental skill, imagery.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_02: Easily.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_02: I think um there's a lot that comes with being good at imagery.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um I think it leads to like better self-talk.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_02: I think it leads to more better mental preparation.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_02: I think it leads to being more motivated.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I think a lot of people don't know how to do it properly.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, or like they think they're doing it, but they're not really doing it.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_02: I just think like if everyone did like proper imagery, they would feel a lot more prepared and consistent in the times that they want.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like it's like the sneaky skill that like a lot of people don't really do.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I'm gonna seal some follow-ups to that.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, okay.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_00: Is imagery and part of their like just I'm just gonna say it.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_00: Is imagery and visualization the same thing?
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_02: No, that's a good question.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_02: So visualization is kind of like if I just was like visualize yourself running, like, okay, great.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like it is a form of visualization, but full imagery um should be like it should be a practice, like a mental practice.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_02: So, like if you were um, I'm gonna do it with like a more technical thing, just because it's a little bit easier.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_02: Running also is part of this, but like if I were going off of triathlons, let's say um you're you're trying to master a certain stroke, um, freestyle, breaststroke, whatever.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um you are like fully absorbed in it because I'm like, okay, what are you wearing?
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_02: What are you wearing for this competition?
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what is your uniform?
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, you're wearing it.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, where are you?
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_02: What does the water feel like?
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_02: What sounds?
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_02: Are you tasting the chlorine in your mouth?
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like all of those things need to be like so locked into your brain, all of those senses.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_02: Visualization is more just like the movie of that happening.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm like, are you tasting the water?
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_02: Are you like hearing the horn or whatever that's going off?
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_02: Are you like, you know, you could feel the chlorine burn in your eyes?
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like it is like a mental absorption.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's where like a lot of people like fall off is like they do visualization and they're just kind of like rolling it through their brain and they're not like so absorbed in the sense part of it.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then usually like how I have athletes practice it is okay, do this loop for like 15 seconds and then give yourself a 15 second break and go back and forth for, you know, whatever time you have, like five minutes even is good.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_02: I wouldn't tell someone like I've I've read books and stuff where they're like, do this like a hundred times.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_02: Not everyone has the time to do that.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_02: But like if you can dedicate like five minutes even and go 15 seconds on, 15 seconds off, and you're that absorbed, then that's I would say good.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sold on on imagery.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I feel like we often hear this about like elites, people like Michael Phelps comes to mind, umchogi, the goat of marathoning, undebatably at this point.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's in relentless, uh, the Kobe's, uh Jordans, D Wades of the world, um, Wayne Gretzky, I think, even the earlier stuff.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_00: I I'm a big sports buff and just kind of into it.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_00: But it's not like an open discussion.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_00: I think you kind of hinted at this where it's like, hey, imagery, and people often confuse you with visualization, where this is like, you said it, like taste the chlorine, like what?
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's crazy.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, and I like I think the other thing about that is too, like, I had a runner that we were like working on it, and she was prepping for a race, and I would, she was like, it's gonna be really, really it was, I think it was that July 4th when it was gonna be really, really hot and the air quality was gonna be bad.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, okay, well, then that should be part of your imagery.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_02: And she was like, Well, why?
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to like put that negative, like bad air quality in my head.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, Yeah, but that bad air quality is gonna be there.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, yeah, it's not the most helpful thing, like, but you can't control the weather, like it is gonna be hot, or like if you know, you know, you you have quad pain or something, that should be part of your imagery because you're experiencing that and you're trying to mentally prepare for it.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_02: Kind of like going back to what I was talking about about positive self-talk versus like helpful self-talk, like it's not all you can't visualize like the happiest thing because that's not gonna help you if that's not what you're experiencing.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_00: I I like that about your approach and what you said, like you know, often people think or or some even talk about like all the positivity, but like sometimes things are hard and and rough, and you kind of have to acknowledge those things and able to be able to move forward, but it's not often talked about it's all like, or at least it's perceived.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_00: I could it could just be me, like, hey, the positive, the positive.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, if I cramp on my which has happened to me, and I'm not thinking about that, and then it happens, I'm caught off guard.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's just a reality, like sometimes you gotta deal with the reality.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, last follow-up on the same topic of imagery for someone that has a job and is working, family kids, um, you know, they can't do it, like you said, all the time.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_00: How often should they do this?
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_02: If you could do like either like sprinkle in like some short practices like once a day, like if you can give yourself five minutes, I think that's great.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_02: If you can only do like one day a week and maybe dedicate like five to ten, I think nothing is better or something is better than nothing.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_02: So, like if you have kids, like maybe when your kids are at school, you're like, okay, this is my like mental skills hour I'm giving myself on Wednesdays.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna go through my self-talk and I'm gonna go through my imagery.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_02: Great.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, obviously the more professional, like higher level, I would be like, well, we gotta be doing this like daily.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_02: But like if you're running and you're you're at that like kind of pre-professional, like elite but not professional level, try to do it once a week and see how it goes.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_02: And then you might find also that like the more you do it, the more automatic it becomes.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_02: And you are like, oh, I can kind of do this while I'm like, I don't know, like doing some like a mindful trick, like I'm vacuuming.
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna also kind of try to like do some of my self-talk or my imagery or whatever.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so hopefully it becomes a little bit more like automatic and it doesn't feel like it needs to be such like a process.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_00: Got it.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_00: You said vacuum, and I instantly thought of wait, how can I do that?
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_00: And then I went, I could just put the music in the head, like the pool or whatever sound, you know, like the cheering.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it can be done.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_02: It can be done, yeah.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_00: The last one I have for you is like, what are some books, quotes, or lessons that's kind of shaped you as a sports psychologist?
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_02: Ooh, uh, yeah, I would definitely say um Relentless and Um The Mindful Athlete are two like really good books um that definitely like kind of changed um like or like opened my eyes to the world of sports psychology.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_02: Also, if you haven't seen The Last Dance, which I feel like everyone has seen it, but if you have not seen it, definitely like watch it.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's just such a great um documentary about resiliency and mental toughness and and all of that.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I feel like now I'm in a place where like I'm like as I've been working more with athletes and artists, I feel like I've been doing a lot of self-reflection from my own performance career as a dancer.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I think there are a lot of like lessons I've been telling myself about what self-talk I could have told myself, you know, why I got so worked up over these like little things.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_02: I I feel like like a lot of my lessons so far have been reflective of like, man, I wish I had the like a sports psychologist or like this kind of training at my disposal when I was an athlete.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm like, if you know, if you had the means to work with a sports psychologist or a mental skills coach, you know, do it if you're really serious about improving your craft, um, because it's that much more, you know, it's gonna like put you at next level.
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_02: Another good documentary is um the Simone Biles one on Netflix, um, because she's someone who dealt with kind of her own version of the Yips.
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_02: She in gymnastics, it's called the Twisties.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_02: And um, going into Tokyo, she um had a mishap on the vault and like spatially like didn't know where she was, and it was all mental.
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and she talks about that in her documentary.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_02: And and a lot of times when like kids don't know what sports psychology is, I'm like, do you know who Simone Biles is?
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_02: And they're like, Yeah, and I'm like, okay, she uses a sports psychologist because she dealt with this like mental setback and like needed to figure out what was going on.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_02: So that's another really good one.
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and she's just like an amazing athlete and role model.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that I I like really, really liked that documentary.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what do you got going on next for you?
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I I know you're working on a new uh correct me if I'm wrong here, but a certification or yeah, yeah.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm currently um pursuing my certified mental performance consultant certification, which is kind of like a top-level certification through the Applied Association of Sports Psychology.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_02: That's been a huge chunk of what I've been doing.
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's like a 400-hour process, and I'm over halfway through, which is really exciting.
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I'm working with a mentor who's kind of like helping me with some of that stuff.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_02: But that's been, it's been really like great and rewarding.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I'm doing that.
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_02: I'm working with um a bunch of athletes and artists right now on their mental performance and then doing some personal training still um part-time.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_02: So kind of like a nice mix of like fitness and mental health, which has kind of always been my like thing, I guess.
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um I feel like the two of them are so connected.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_02: And like for personal training, people, I'm always like, if you feel better physically, you're probably gonna be feeling better mentally.
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_02: So they're so connected.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but yeah, that's that's been the life right now in Chicago, and it's summer.
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_02: So it's been, as we were talking kind of about the weather, it's like you when you live in the Midwest, you live in Chicago, you're like summer is just everything.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, getting to be with my friends and family out here and enjoying um summertime in Chicago has been awesome.
• 59:41
  unknown: Yeah, it really is awesome.
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Chicago.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we were talking earlier.
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_00: I I love Chicago, um, eager to go back at some point, but Chicago's awesome.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_00: The food alone, uh, I I can't remember off the top of my head, but there's this dinerslash breakfast place I went to.
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_00: Uh my girlfriend's probably lives out there.
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I can't remember it, but it is some of the best pancakes I've ever had in my life.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not a pancake person by any means.
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Chicago is not short of good restaurants, which is a blessing and a curse for athletes and training clients alike.
• 1:00:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, if you can get out to Chicago for those listening.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um Maggie, if people want to reach you and and work with you as a sports psychologist, I'm gonna put this in the description, but where should they reach you at?
• 1:00:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they can find me um either on my website, they can contact me directly through there.
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it goes straight to my email.
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_02: But my uh website is mgoodmanperformance.com.
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_02: And then my Instagram, I'm like pretty into it on social media.
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, my Instagram is Mag Doc Goodman.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and you'll find me, it says sports psychologist.
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I I like to share stuff that we talked about, stuff in fitness.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then just like I I'm all for sharing like cat photos in my my day-to-day life.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 1:01:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um that's a wrap, guys.
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_00: This has been an amazing episode.
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, thank you, Maggie, for uh sharing and discussing and sharing some of the insights on support psychology.
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_00: I hope uh for those listening, you got some takeaways, imagery, self-talk, awesome to hear.
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_00: And it's gonna be uh, you know, I'm gonna get a little overexcited here and say a banger, but I can't wait.
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_02: This was awesome.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_02: I it was so great talking to you.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_02: I love talking about this stuff.
• 1:01:27
  SPEAKER_02: This is like the bread and butter of what I do.
• 1:01:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, same here.
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I love psychology.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, if you're listening to this episode, moved to you, uh, follow us on Instagram, the People Run Podcast, or check out the podcast wherever you listen to podcasts, leave a review, comment, no pressure.
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but it helps.
• 1:01:43
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, thanks for tuning in.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_00: This has been the People Run Podcast.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_00: Again, thanks, Maggie.
• 1:01:47
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time.