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Randy Weyersberg - Marketing Is Moving Too Fast to Play It Safe · Stacked with Jennifer Laforge

• 0:00
  Jen LaForge: Good morning, Randy Weyersberg.
• 0:01
  Jen LaForge: Thank you for joining me today on Stacked.
• 0:04
  Jen LaForge: Very excited because for the first time, I think, in all of our episodes, we have a guest with over 40 years' experience.
• 0:11
  Jen LaForge: I'm not even going to try and encapsulate that.
• 0:13
  Jen LaForge: So I'm going to pass it over to you.
• 0:14
  Jen LaForge: Can you tell our audience a little bit about what a colorful, fantastic career you've had to this point?
• 0:23
  Randy Weyersberg: Oh, thank you, Jennifer.
• 0:24
  Randy Weyersberg: I appreciate that.
• 0:25
  Randy Weyersberg: Um, so yes, 40 years.
• 0:27
  Randy Weyersberg: I sometimes I look back and I realize, wow, what happened and where am I at today?
• 0:32
  Randy Weyersberg: And yet my career continues.
• 0:34
  Randy Weyersberg: Um, I have um retired officially from the daily grind.
• 0:38
  Randy Weyersberg: I'm working for myself as part of a company that I've established most recently.
• 0:43
  Randy Weyersberg: But my the history of my career uh started uh in the 80s.
• 0:48
  Randy Weyersberg: Uh, and shortly after I graduated, I went to work for IBM.
• 0:51
  Randy Weyersberg: I was there for almost four years, and then I started a journey that getting closer to the consumer through different roles that I worked for for companies like at the time Unilever, then I went to work for Nabisco, which is now part of Mondelez.
• 1:06
  Randy Weyersberg: Uh, and I I find that the the chapters in my career were very disciplined, structured, fact-based, which was 17 years in the CPG realm.
• 1:17
  Randy Weyersberg: And then I jumped and went to a new industry, and that was when I went to Nike, and I had this tremendous uh opportunity to learn branding uh in a way that is done right.
• 1:28
  Randy Weyersberg: Uh, and and that carried me for the balance of my my career, but it also gave me a stepping stone into retail.
• 1:35
  Randy Weyersberg: I love retail.
• 1:36
  Randy Weyersberg: It's where the rubber meets the road.
• 1:38
  Randy Weyersberg: Uh, it's hard, it's dynamic, extremely competitive, both e-comm and also uh, you know, physical store.
• 1:45
  Randy Weyersberg: And I progressively worked into companies like Bell.
• 1:48
  Randy Weyersberg: Uh, they own the source.
• 1:50
  Randy Weyersberg: I was the same with what was brought on board.
• 1:52
  Randy Weyersberg: And then later went into gambling, uh, working for OLG, which had 750, sorry, 3,000 stores and um storefronts in particular.
• 2:02
  Randy Weyersberg: And then from there, I went into, I closed out my career working in beverage alcohol.
• 2:07
  Randy Weyersberg: Uh, wine.
• 2:08
  Randy Weyersberg: I love wine.
• 2:09
  Jen LaForge: Okay.
• 2:09
  Jen LaForge: I mean, that is uh so many touch points.
• 2:13
  Jen LaForge: And we talked also a little bit earlier about the backbone of all that.
• 2:16
  Jen LaForge: You're a very technical guy, which doesn't always make sense with all these different lives and roles that you played to.
• 2:22
  Jen LaForge: So tell us a little bit about the tech component and that passion, how you brought it into this.
• 2:28
  Randy Weyersberg: Yeah.
• 2:28
  Randy Weyersberg: So it's interesting.
• 2:29
  Randy Weyersberg: I've always been a numbers guy, a logic guy.
• 2:32
  Randy Weyersberg: In my family, we are uh we are retailers, we are marketers.
• 2:37
  Randy Weyersberg: Um and so I I've always had that at the backdrop, but in the forefront, um, at one point in uh when I was in doing my studies, I was thinking about uh finance.
• 2:47
  Randy Weyersberg: And so I ended up doing a double major in marketing and finance.
• 2:50
  Randy Weyersberg: So the numbers were there.
• 2:52
  Randy Weyersberg: And I originally came to Toronto and I got lucky.
• 2:56
  Randy Weyersberg: Um I was relocating originally from Montreal.
• 3:00
  Randy Weyersberg: So I was going to start my career in Toronto with my studies, and I ended up the job as a summer student at IBM, and that's when I just immersed myself in technology.
• 3:10
  Randy Weyersberg: And I remember the the story, uh, Rick Wall at the time who hired me.
• 3:14
  Randy Weyersberg: I says, Why did you pick me?
• 3:16
  Randy Weyersberg: I don't have any relatives working for IBM.
• 3:19
  Randy Weyersberg: He says, Randy, you were the only person who wrote a resume on blue paper, and we saw it in the stack uh and we pulled it out.
• 3:25
  Randy Weyersberg: That's our colors.
• 3:26
  Randy Weyersberg: And so you clearly understand corporate environment, uh, but I'm a technologist first and foremost, no question.
• 3:32
  Randy Weyersberg: And I learned that uh at IBM.
• 3:34
  Jen LaForge: Okay.
• 3:34
  Jen LaForge: I I love that story of the blue paper.
• 3:37
  Jen LaForge: That's fantastic.
• 3:39
  Jen LaForge: I once got hired because under special skills, I actually put in my resume ability to leap over tall buildings in a single place.
• 3:46
  Jen LaForge: Oh, I love that.
• 3:46
  Jen LaForge: So yeah, it's sometimes it's those little things that just make people pause.
• 3:50
  Jen LaForge: And this was a long time ago, but the blue paper, I love it.
• 3:53
  Jen LaForge: Um, when we started this podcast, it was really about the loyalty space with e-commerce and partnerships and payments, with this mission to be helping everyday consumers and people within our space truly understand the value and how to stack it.
• 4:09
  Jen LaForge: And why I'm excited for you today is because we can talk about anything with your diverse background.
• 4:16
  Jen LaForge: But where I'm leaning is how incredibly exciting the time that we're in must be for you.
• 4:23
  Jen LaForge: With this background and that technology bone and AI.
• 4:26
  Jen LaForge: How do you feel about today?
• 4:30
  Jen LaForge: And let's go with retail that that rubber hits the road.
• 4:35
  Jen LaForge: What are your thoughts on where we are and where we're going?
• 4:39
  Jen LaForge: And how does that make you excited?
• 4:41
  Randy Weyersberg: Yeah, I'm I'm uh really stimulated by the thought about what AI can do and the emergence of uh AI-powered Martech to really uh create a better connection in the commerce world.
• 4:55
  Randy Weyersberg: And that means whether you're B2B or B2C, making a connection with that target consumer.
• 5:01
  Randy Weyersberg: Uh it's interesting because um in my last 10 years of my career, I was really into the grind.
• 5:07
  Randy Weyersberg: Uh, the world got increasingly more complicated.
• 5:10
  Randy Weyersberg: C-suite are distracted a lot by external factors that they have no control on.
• 5:16
  Randy Weyersberg: And so the the the result is you're internally focused.
• 5:20
  Randy Weyersberg: Once I got out of the grind uh and I got out of the fog, as I call it, and this was just as early as six months ago when I retired, I realized the world of technology was speeding at a rate that was, even for a tech guy like me, was unprecedented.
• 5:36
  Randy Weyersberg: I would suggest to you that in the last two years, I've seen more technology than I experienced in the last 20 combined.
• 5:43
  Randy Weyersberg: And so it is fascinating.
• 5:44
  Randy Weyersberg: I am still digesting all of that technology and what it means, um, but I'm I'm immersing myself into it.
• 5:51
  Randy Weyersberg: And I think that's the first step.
• 5:52
  Randy Weyersberg: Uh, you you really need to understand the technology and marry that up with use cases or opportunities.
• 5:59
  Randy Weyersberg: And it's fascinating.
• 6:01
  Randy Weyersberg: And every day I have conversations on technology, um, and I have somebody else telling me that they are looking at it from a different, uh, different lens.
• 6:10
  Randy Weyersberg: And and that opens up your mind and you realize, oh my God, it's uh the potential is incredible.
• 6:16
  Randy Weyersberg: So for an organization like yours that is built off of technology, this is so empowering.
• 6:22
  Randy Weyersberg: Uh I remember 10 years ago, there were organizations.
• 6:26
  Randy Weyersberg: I don't know if Google still does this, but I so believe that you need to allow your employees to experiment, to explore, to, to search outside their office space and have that freedom to do it, uh, whether that's five minutes of your time, 10 minutes of your time, or 20% of your time.
• 6:43
  Randy Weyersberg: I think really uh you you need to give them that freedom to be curious and to and to ask themselves constantly what if.
• 6:52
  Randy Weyersberg: Uh and uh I do think great is coming, uh, and we can talk about some of those examples uh for sure.
• 6:59
  Jen LaForge: Yeah, I I can't wait to get there.
• 7:01
  Jen LaForge: Um, agree with what you said is uh, you know, exploring and being creative and getting out there.
• 7:06
  Jen LaForge: For us as a tech company, it's really important because we have extremely high tenure in our employees.
• 7:10
  Jen LaForge: I mean, we're here seven, eight, ten, fourteen years together.
• 7:13
  Jen LaForge: Once you come, it's really hard to leave this space because we we love what we do.
• 7:18
  Jen LaForge: Um, but before we get to those examples, I wanted to ask you the speed we're at and and that overwhelming new technology every time you turn around.
• 7:28
  Jen LaForge: If I think back to the 80s, you had time to get things done.
• 7:32
  Jen LaForge: There was a new trend, a new direction, a new campaign.
• 7:36
  Jen LaForge: You kind of built a year or five years on that trajectory.
• 7:41
  Jen LaForge: Today, that trend is lasting 24 hours, 72 hours.
• 7:46
  Jen LaForge: How are marketers today able to find the right thing to lock on to, the right trend to jump on and run with it when tomorrow it's going to be completely done?
• 8:01
  Jen LaForge: I mean, how how do we market in today's world?
• 8:04
  Randy Weyersberg: Yeah.
• 8:04
  Randy Weyersberg: I I think it's uh the way I would look at it, uh, you you can't assume a silver bullet.
• 8:10
  Randy Weyersberg: You can't just rely on one idea and and invest all your energy and time against it.
• 8:16
  Randy Weyersberg: Like an investment strategy, you're not quite sure where things will go.
• 8:20
  Randy Weyersberg: You want there's volatility, uh, there's uh there's the reality that you cannot predict everything.
• 8:26
  Randy Weyersberg: So what you need to do is create a portfolio of ideas.
• 8:29
  Randy Weyersberg: I really believe a lot uh in pilots.
• 8:32
  Randy Weyersberg: Pilots is a is a wonderful theme and concept.
• 8:35
  Randy Weyersberg: It has served me exceptionally well in the tech space.
• 8:39
  Randy Weyersberg: Uh the first thing about a pilot, it gives you permission to fail.
• 8:43
  Randy Weyersberg: And so uh, having been in the C-suite, and when I'm reporting to the board, I am very clear this is a pilot.
• 8:50
  Randy Weyersberg: Right away, everyone's relaxed.
• 8:51
  Randy Weyersberg: No one is holding you to it, a strict account.
• 8:54
  Randy Weyersberg: And I think that that's the mindset you need to have.
• 8:57
  Randy Weyersberg: Um, by the way, I love that you have tenure in your organization.
• 9:00
  Randy Weyersberg: They understand your business better than anybody else, and you need to nurture that knowledge and bring it forward.
• 9:07
  Randy Weyersberg: And sometimes there is this uh this belief amongst those who have that tenure.
• 9:12
  Randy Weyersberg: And I worked in an amazing organization, I'll declare it, it's a Crown Corporation, it was OLG, lots of tenure.
• 9:19
  Randy Weyersberg: And when I arrived there, I I saw that as a rich trove of expertise and capability.
• 9:26
  Randy Weyersberg: And um they they have so many ideas and they've been blocked so many times.
• 9:32
  Randy Weyersberg: I think there's an unleashing opportunity that exists today.
• 9:36
  Randy Weyersberg: Uh, and with technology and now with this freedom to do pilots and this freedom that says that you need to have a portfolio of what-if ideas in order to move fast.
• 9:46
  Randy Weyersberg: And and one last thought do not chase perfection.
• 9:49
  Randy Weyersberg: Uh, that is a that is a uh a sure thing to fail.
• 9:53
  Randy Weyersberg: You're wasting too much time, like you said, you need to get to market quickly.
• 9:57
  Randy Weyersberg: In my opinion, when you're starting a go-to-market uh strategy and plan from start to finish, should be six weeks.
• 10:05
  Randy Weyersberg: You should you should not be planning six months out.
• 10:08
  Randy Weyersberg: Uh, you should be giving yourself that flexibility to respond to a marketplace.
• 10:13
  Jen LaForge: So with that in mind, obviously it's not realistic for all marketers because the way a lot of them are bred, they like a plan and they like to execute it on, and they think that they're they're on this path.
• 10:27
  Jen LaForge: Martec and AI and the speed is changing that.
• 10:30
  Jen LaForge: And so going against like fundamental grains of of long-term marketers.
• 10:35
  Jen LaForge: So thinking now we have six weeks, now a six-month plan, you know, how have you experienced or led people through that dynamic shift and how they're operating?
• 10:45
  Jen LaForge: Because that's an interesting point.
• 10:47
  Randy Weyersberg: Yeah.
• 10:47
  Randy Weyersberg: So I it's actually that is the ambition.
• 10:50
  Randy Weyersberg: As a as a team lead, as a CMO who's overseeing large teams, you need to really think hard about how you're how you are structured to enable that.
• 11:01
  Randy Weyersberg: Um, I don't believe in pyramids.
• 11:03
  Randy Weyersberg: I believe in flattening out organizations.
• 11:05
  Randy Weyersberg: I believe being actively involved and being a cheerleader that is spotting ideas throughout the organization and encouraging them to go.
• 11:13
  Randy Weyersberg: Um, the I I'm a strong proponent of centers of excellence.
• 11:18
  Randy Weyersberg: Uh may not be for everybody.
• 11:20
  Randy Weyersberg: Uh, it has served me exceptionally well.
• 11:23
  Randy Weyersberg: To me, the concept of center of excellence is defining an accountability and saying you are the expert for that.
• 11:29
  Randy Weyersberg: And now we're running a four-man or four-woman relay race.
• 11:33
  Randy Weyersberg: And so who's got the baton and who's passing it to whom?
• 11:36
  Randy Weyersberg: Focus on the transition.
• 11:38
  Randy Weyersberg: Do not focus on the start or the finish.
• 11:41
  Randy Weyersberg: It's always in the in the transition that is critical.
• 11:43
  Randy Weyersberg: So for me, it's it's really about an an enable enablement capability.
• 11:49
  Randy Weyersberg: Uh, and I don't have all the ideas, but I can spot a damn good one fairly quickly.
• 11:53
  Randy Weyersberg: And then I know how to enable it.
• 11:55
  Randy Weyersberg: I know how to, you know, cut out the red tape, I know how to fast track, I know how to make someone feel like don't worry if it fails, right?
• 12:02
  Randy Weyersberg: That's the key, I think.
• 12:03
  Jen LaForge: Yeah.
• 12:04
  Jen LaForge: Where we live in a society where failure is is such a terrifying thing.
• 12:08
  Jen LaForge: Um, that that being able to really create that culture where people know it's okay to stumble and fail, especially when you have, again, you know, 10 ideas that you're piloting or throwing at the wall, not all 10 are going to be, you know, those bangers that are gonna set the set the tone.
• 12:23
  Jen LaForge: So I love that.
• 12:24
  Jen LaForge: In the theme of our earlier chat about threading the needle, you mentioned you love data.
• 12:29
  Jen LaForge: So you actually said data before the tech component.
• 12:32
  Jen LaForge: Yes.
• 12:33
  Jen LaForge: Um, and they're they're tightly intertwined.
• 12:35
  Jen LaForge: Um, but where where would you say data has changed the most significantly in terms of where you started and where we're at?
• 12:43
  Jen LaForge: Um, and in particular as it pertains to like third party, because that wasn't necessarily a thing.
• 12:49
  Randy Weyersberg: Yeah.
• 12:49
  Randy Weyersberg: Yeah.
• 12:50
  Randy Weyersberg: So uh uh data is is critical.
• 12:52
  Randy Weyersberg: Um I would say that the last 15 years of my career, it it dawned on me that the power I would have in the C-suite by having control on data.
• 13:03
  Randy Weyersberg: And so it's not just data on the consumer makeup.
• 13:06
  Randy Weyersberg: It's critical, very important.
• 13:08
  Randy Weyersberg: And the more you can get, the better.
• 13:11
  Randy Weyersberg: In my opinion, humbly, you can never have enough data.
• 13:15
  Randy Weyersberg: The issue is how do you process it and what do you do with it?
• 13:18
  Randy Weyersberg: Uh, and so I've witnessed in 15 years certain tools, Martech tools, uh, which allow you to better understand and correlate uh uh performance metrics.
• 13:31
  Randy Weyersberg: And so in the C-suite, you need to be able to talk ROI, you need to talk, you need to be able to talk about revenue and attribution.
• 13:39
  Randy Weyersberg: What are the efforts you're generating and what specifically is it contributing to the total?
• 13:45
  Randy Weyersberg: So the attribution uh concept.
• 13:47
  Randy Weyersberg: And um, you know, uh 15 years ago, I was using this cool called uh this tool called market mix modeling, very powerful.
• 13:56
  Randy Weyersberg: It's to me the holy grail uh for anyone who's commercially centric and wants to position uh commerce activity as a growth engine, and it has for me.
• 14:06
  Randy Weyersberg: Uh in 15 years, I've had my budget cut only twice.
• 14:09
  Randy Weyersberg: And in each and every single time, I was able to actually increase my budget.
• 14:13
  Randy Weyersberg: So the confidence in that data and representing that data in a way that is understood at the board level is critical.
• 14:20
  Randy Weyersberg: So uh, but here's the point the the the engine uh that drives that data has only been perfected and improved, and today is just now being integrated with AI.
• 14:33
  Randy Weyersberg: So if you think of a suite of a data leak, garbage in, garbage out, right?
• 14:38
  Randy Weyersberg: It's so important to have not just primary data components, such as, okay, uh, you know, what what is my revenue week after week after week, what's my pricing, um, and then what's uh, you know, what's the market share is is perhaps a different collective, or what's my competitors doing is A and then B.
• 14:57
  Randy Weyersberg: But you need C.
• 14:58
  Randy Weyersberg: C is how do you correlate those two in terms of the activities you've done and where your your your math is for your ROI?
• 15:06
  Randy Weyersberg: And now what you do is you that is part of the data lake on which uh your whole AI or your H agentic AI sits on top.
• 15:16
  Jen LaForge: Right.
• 15:16
  Randy Weyersberg: So to me, MMM um is the brain of your AI.
• 15:22
  Randy Weyersberg: Without it, in in my opinion, it's you have a tremendous amount of shortcomings.
• 15:27
  Randy Weyersberg: And so I I do believe in data.
• 15:30
  Randy Weyersberg: I'm I'm very quant, um, and and I know that I'm successful when I look at the CFO, I explain myself, and then they turn to you and say, I understand what you're saying.
• 15:42
  Randy Weyersberg: You know, and then they throw in, you don't talk like the average uh CMO, right?
• 15:46
  Randy Weyersberg: And I love that because uh in the C-suite, you you're not about just promoting creative.
• 15:52
  Randy Weyersberg: You're you're you're promoting an ideal around growth and the and an engine that will that will take this company as a partner at the C-suite to that next level, right?
• 16:03
  Jen LaForge: Yeah, that's right.
• 16:04
  Jen LaForge: So many questions.
• 16:05
  Jen LaForge: I'm gonna put a pin on the MMM because that's a hot topic in our industry on the affiliate side right now.
• 16:11
  Jen LaForge: But just to what you were saying about you don't talk like a normal CMO.
• 16:15
  Jen LaForge: You've got data.
• 16:16
  Jen LaForge: You're talking about ROI.
• 16:18
  Jen LaForge: Um, that brings to the world of brand marketing and performance marketing.
• 16:24
  Jen LaForge: And brand, those CMOs are constantly saying, no, I do need a little bit more.
• 16:29
  Jen LaForge: No, I don't have numbers for you.
• 16:31
  Jen LaForge: You just have to believe because what we're doing is immeasurable.
• 16:35
  Jen LaForge: And that's the hardest part of a CMO's life is is just not being able to quantify.
• 16:41
  Jen LaForge: Yeah.
• 16:42
  Jen LaForge: So what do you think?
• 16:43
  Jen LaForge: Um, how do you balance as a marketer the performance side and the brand side and that abundance of data in Claire KPIs with this big unknown, have faith it's working measurability.
• 16:56
  Randy Weyersberg: Yeah.
• 16:56
  Randy Weyersberg: So I I I I've spent a lot of time explaining this to the board.
• 17:01
  Randy Weyersberg: Um, and I I refer to the concept of yin and yin.
• 17:04
  Randy Weyersberg: So you have brand and performance.
• 17:07
  Randy Weyersberg: Both need to work together.
• 17:09
  Randy Weyersberg: Um, and and and there is an overlap between the two, I think increasingly more so today.
• 17:15
  Randy Weyersberg: It there used to be, well, brand advertising had a certain tone, a certain look, uh, and a certain medium.
• 17:22
  Randy Weyersberg: Television historically had been identified as that's a brand medium.
• 17:26
  Randy Weyersberg: I don't believe that to be the case anymore.
• 17:28
  Randy Weyersberg: Like the mediums have so advanced uh and uh and and and have and you can you can cut down TV into 10 seconds and now all of a sudden becomes a performance medium.
• 17:38
  Randy Weyersberg: And I've used it very effectively that way.
• 17:40
  Randy Weyersberg: The key is knowing when to deploy brand messaging versus uh performance messaging, and sometimes both in the same medium.
• 17:50
  Randy Weyersberg: I know this is blasphemy for some agencies.
• 17:52
  Randy Weyersberg: They say, no, no, stick to one message.
• 17:54
  Randy Weyersberg: I have been so successful combining the two in certain mediums.
• 17:59
  Randy Weyersberg: And so um uh, you know, just for everyone to understand, the way I look at brand, to me, brand is a motive.
• 18:06
  Randy Weyersberg: Uh, it's your right brain.
• 18:08
  Randy Weyersberg: Uh, the performance is your proof point, right?
• 18:12
  Randy Weyersberg: Uh no one's gonna, I mean, people do go from uh emotional thinking to rational thinking in their decision process.
• 18:20
  Randy Weyersberg: It's not always emotional.
• 18:22
  Randy Weyersberg: So you need to be able to bridge to it, which is why I like a call to action, even in branded advertising.
• 18:28
  Randy Weyersberg: Um, so it's it's it's it's really important to understand that these two work together in an ecosystem.
• 18:37
  Jen LaForge: I love that.
• 18:37
  Jen LaForge: And I don't hear a lot of people talking about that working together ecosystem and overlap of the two.
• 18:42
  Jen LaForge: They seem sometimes very staunchly opposite and competitive.
• 18:46
  Jen LaForge: So thank you for that clarity.
• 18:48
  Jen LaForge: I do want to go back to the MM model.
• 18:50
  Jen LaForge: And and I'm not sure how deep you can go on this or your opinion, but in a world like ours within the affiliate space, the MM model does not necessarily work.
• 19:02
  Jen LaForge: What can you you say to that model and how you're using it within the affiliate world, or have you used it to measure in the affiliate space?
• 19:10
  Jen LaForge: And what are what's the difference uh between that and perform measuring performance elsewhere?
• 19:15
  Randy Weyersberg: Yeah, I there are a lot of vehicles, go-to-market vehicles that are challenged to be measured in the in the conventional MMA.
• 19:24
  Randy Weyersberg: Uh, I will suggest to you that today there are companies that are not widely known.
• 19:31
  Randy Weyersberg: It's not your Cantar, not your AC Nielsen, um, who have broken the code on this.
• 19:37
  Randy Weyersberg: Um, they just don't have the awareness uh amongst large organizations.
• 19:41
  Randy Weyersberg: I'm in the process right now of meeting the CEOs of some of the top 10 CPG companies uh in the world today.
• 19:50
  Randy Weyersberg: Um we had a meeting last week.
• 19:51
  Randy Weyersberg: I've got two more in the next two weeks.
• 19:53
  Randy Weyersberg: They're all asking, how are we breaking the uh you know that code?
• 19:57
  Randy Weyersberg: And so I will suggest to you uh that uh it's possible uh and it's new technology now.
• 20:04
  Randy Weyersberg: So here are some other examples of what's not which is difficult to measure, but the code has been broken and now we can do it.
• 20:11
  Randy Weyersberg: Um organic influencer um you know investment.
• 20:16
  Randy Weyersberg: So when you think of paid media and many cons uh companies like Unilever are moving their dollars into organic uh influencer investment, which is basically user-generated uh content.
• 20:29
  Randy Weyersberg: Uh and you're you're paying a flat fee for that influencer to create content and then to post it on their platform with the reach that they have.
• 20:38
  Randy Weyersberg: Very difficult to measure it with traditional women.
• 20:40
  Randy Weyersberg: We have solved for that.
• 20:42
  Randy Weyersberg: Uh retail media, um, Amazon, Walmart, Loblaws, they all have their own platforms around retail media.
• 20:49
  Randy Weyersberg: Very difficult from the outside looking in to try and measure that.
• 20:52
  Randy Weyersberg: Affiliate is an example of that, I think, and it is possible.
• 20:57
  Randy Weyersberg: Uh the signals are so much more sophisticated and the cape and the capabilities are so much more sophisticated.
• 21:04
  Randy Weyersberg: Best an example I can give you.
• 21:06
  Randy Weyersberg: Think of, and I I remember when I had my transistor radio, I only perhaps could pick up uh, you know, 10 stations.
• 21:13
  Randy Weyersberg: But my dad, uh, he had uh that that radio that sat in the kitchen.
• 21:17
  Randy Weyersberg: He could pick up a thousand stations.
• 21:19
  Randy Weyersberg: Uh he had 10 bands on it.
• 21:21
  Randy Weyersberg: That's the difference in the technology 15 years ago to today on MMM.
• 21:26
  Randy Weyersberg: So it's possible.
• 21:27
  Randy Weyersberg: It's uh it just need to work at it uh and work with the right partner to get at it.
• 21:32
  Jen LaForge: We would wholeheartedly agree with you in the affiliate space.
• 21:35
  Jen LaForge: It's possible.
• 21:35
  Jen LaForge: It does have to be broken and re-engineered to fit with our model because it's not the same.
• 21:40
  Jen LaForge: Um, and so my ask to you and all of your conversations going forward, please continue to tell that story and to help unlock the code for us.
• 21:50
  Jen LaForge: Um, because you're right, it's not something uh that a lot of large companies are thinking about and they're using the standard model and making big decisions.
• 21:59
  Jen LaForge: Um but it it doesn't fit fit the needs.
• 22:03
  Randy Weyersberg: I I I love that you shared that.
• 22:05
  Randy Weyersberg: And uh it is it is a fact in the marketplace and this is a perfect example of how technology is moving so fast.
• 22:13
  Randy Weyersberg: Folks in the C suites are at the moment cannot keep up.
• 22:17
  Randy Weyersberg: They do not have the bandwidth, and so they're going on the assumption that this has not been solved when in fact it has been, right?
• 22:24
  Jen LaForge: Yeah.
• 22:25
  Jen LaForge: Yep.
• 22:25
  Jen LaForge: It has been solved.
• 22:26
  Jen LaForge: It just has not been shared.
• 22:28
  Randy Weyersberg: Exactly.
• 22:28
  Jen LaForge: Um it's kind of gatekeeping on this.
• 22:30
  Jen LaForge: But uh, I think if this was to open up, I think a lot of companies would find a lot stronger return and be making very different decisions if they're using the right model.
• 22:41
  Randy Weyersberg: I agree.
• 22:42
  Jen LaForge: Perfect.
• 22:42
  Jen LaForge: I'm glad we we got that out in the air.
• 22:45
  Jen LaForge: Yeah.
• 22:45
  Jen LaForge: Uh that's a big one for us in our industry.
• 22:47
  Randy Weyersberg: So there's so many blind spots right now, right?
• 22:50
  Randy Weyersberg: It's uh so yeah, that story needs to be told.
• 22:53
  Randy Weyersberg: Um, and uh I'm working with so many, uh, so many vendors of media who are trying to tell their story.
• 23:00
  Randy Weyersberg: And uh it's interesting, right?
• 23:03
  Randy Weyersberg: It really is interesting.
• 23:04
  Randy Weyersberg: And uh you you just need discipline and a and a committed partner to to unlock that code.
• 23:11
  Randy Weyersberg: Uh it's like the Enigma machine, right?
• 23:13
  Randy Weyersberg: Uh eventually they uh they figured it out, uh, it's there, and now they can they can uh do appropriate attribution for it.
• 23:21
  Jen LaForge: It's like those aha moments where you wake up one day and everything makes sense and it kind of clicks and then you're a little embarrassed.
• 23:28
  Jen LaForge: Yeah.
• 23:29
  Jen LaForge: Um so it's funny.
• 23:30
  Jen LaForge: What I find funny um is that we're in this world where we have more data than we've ever had.
• 23:35
  Jen LaForge: Now we're able to process all this data in faster and and more advanced ways than we ever have.
• 23:41
  Jen LaForge: And so we should have all of the answers and everyone should be, you know, aware of these changes.
• 23:47
  Jen LaForge: But it feels as though we still, despite all of this, have less answers and more questions, and there's still gatekeeping and holes, and we're still having these wake-up aha moments.
• 23:59
  Jen LaForge: Why do you think that is?
• 24:02
  Jen LaForge: And is that just something fundamental about us as humans that will never change, regardless of how we adopt evolved?
• 24:08
  Randy Weyersberg: There will always be naysayers.
• 24:09
  Randy Weyersberg: Um I I refer to that concept as the inconvenient truth.
• 24:14
  Randy Weyersberg: And so there are um there are privileges uh in how budgets are being allocated today uh that suit certain interest groups, and they will defend that.
• 24:26
  Randy Weyersberg: Um and so I think that gets in the way.
• 24:29
  Randy Weyersberg: That they will undermine uh the you know the data.
• 24:32
  Randy Weyersberg: I've experienced that extensively, um, but I've always uh you know uh persisted.
• 24:39
  Randy Weyersberg: Um it it gave me an a reason and an opportunity to tell the story better, uh, to get my facts in order, uh, and then to present and uh to you know to the key stakeholders that make the decisions.
• 24:51
  Randy Weyersberg: Uh in my case, as a C-suite member, it was the board.
• 24:54
  Randy Weyersberg: And so once you built that trust, um you're you're now in Greenfield, but it's getting out of the woods that's really difficult.
• 25:03
  Randy Weyersberg: And and there is there's good reasons to you know to question, especially new technology, new capability.
• 25:10
  Randy Weyersberg: Um I uh, you know, with uh MMM, for instance, I've always had people say, I do not understand the concept.
• 25:16
  Randy Weyersberg: I don't know why, how can technology distinguish between a pricing action versus a you know a television action?
• 25:24
  Randy Weyersberg: And it's complicated, right?
• 25:26
  Randy Weyersberg: It's uh you that's why you need a statistician in the room, a technologist in the room to explain the confidence level and how this is created.
• 25:34
  Randy Weyersberg: I remember the first project I worked on, and I'm such a geek on on data.
• 25:39
  Randy Weyersberg: First project I worked on at IBM in the summer of 1982 was a regression analysis of where we were going with paper use.
• 25:48
  Randy Weyersberg: And like we had an average of two and a half computers on every desk at IBM at the time.
• 25:54
  Randy Weyersberg: This was before Windows.
• 25:56
  Randy Weyersberg: And so every time you had a system, you had a different terminal.
• 25:59
  Randy Weyersberg: But yet, use of paper was going up.
• 26:02
  Randy Weyersberg: And so I was tasked to figure out where is this gonna end, right?
• 26:06
  Randy Weyersberg: Uh, and I used a regression analysis.
• 26:08
  Randy Weyersberg: That's the tools that you use today, still, uh, as one of the underpinnings of MMM.
• 26:14
  Jen LaForge: I got to ask you later um to go back and find out if the work you did on determining what was happening with paper was accurate.
• 26:23
  Jen LaForge: Did did you forecast what was happening with paper?
• 26:27
  Randy Weyersberg: Um You know the reality of that?
• 26:29
  Randy Weyersberg: It's human behavior because people were learning to live with computers, but they still wanted a printed report.
• 26:36
  Jen LaForge: And I think that's true.
• 26:37
  Jen LaForge: I still you I still use a printer and a lot of paper in my life right now.
• 26:42
  Randy Weyersberg: Yeah, even though we're all digital, right?
• 26:44
  Randy Weyersberg: And we have so many screens.
• 26:45
  Jen LaForge: Yeah, there's there's probably a whole other conversation around the psychology of consumption of data and information.
• 26:51
  Jen LaForge: Uh, but Dunder Mifflin is safe for now, I think.
• 26:54
  Jen LaForge: Um so Randy, we were talking earlier.
• 26:58
  Jen LaForge: I mean, you've got such a uh colorful, beautiful, exciting career, but you did admittedly say like you are not one to go into the depths of loyalty, which is completely fine and fair.
• 27:09
  Jen LaForge: Um, but I am in the world of of loyalty.
• 27:12
  Jen LaForge: So I actually am curious to ask you, as a uh a veteran in in all things marketing, but also a consumer that can't go deep.
• 27:22
  Jen LaForge: When you see loyalty programs marketing, what's one thing that really stands out that you think that's really cool about marketing in the loyalty space?
• 27:31
  Jen LaForge: And one thing that you think, why do why do people do that in the loyalty space?
• 27:34
  Jen LaForge: Like that doesn't make sense.
• 27:36
  Jen LaForge: What's your perspective there?
• 27:38
  Jen LaForge: So from the outside, yeah as a as a man.
• 27:41
  Randy Weyersberg: So I I'm I'm registered with loyalty programs.
• 27:44
  Randy Weyersberg: Um the ones that appeal to me are the ones that are frictionless and simple, right?
• 27:50
  Randy Weyersberg: And so I mean, I'll I'll just share.
• 27:52
  Randy Weyersberg: I went uh it was a year ago I went to the LCBO and they asked me right then and there, would you like to use your points to redeem against your purchase?
• 28:01
  Randy Weyersberg: I was like, what?
• 28:03
  Randy Weyersberg: Wow, what a concept, right?
• 28:05
  Randy Weyersberg: And so to me, uh frictionless and uh, you know, and convenience is uh in any form uh in the loyalty program, I think is is very powerful.
• 28:17
  Randy Weyersberg: Um I don't know what it is, but I buy a lot of things uh and and I I spend quite a bit of money.
• 28:24
  Randy Weyersberg: And so I'm I'm very mindful about the points that I'm collecting.
• 28:28
  Randy Weyersberg: And for me, what matters uh is uh our trips, right?
• 28:33
  Randy Weyersberg: And so I wanna and I want control on the trip that I wanna I wanna invest in uh or purchase and the location and the flexibility of going when I want.
• 28:42
  Randy Weyersberg: So I I don't want resistance, I don't want any friction uh in in me being able to capitalize uh on my reward program.
• 28:50
  Randy Weyersberg: So I I love that, right?
• 28:52
  Randy Weyersberg: To me, that's uh that's what I like.
• 28:55
  Randy Weyersberg: What I don't like is when you're asking me, you know, to jump through hoops, I feel like each time I'm about to use points or startup point program, I feel like I'm having to do schoolwork, like homework, right?
• 29:09
  Randy Weyersberg: Like what am I doing, right?
• 29:11
  Randy Weyersberg: And I I I resist that, right?
• 29:13
  Randy Weyersberg: I make it easy for me.
• 29:15
  Randy Weyersberg: Frictionless.
• 29:16
  Randy Weyersberg: Um, so uh and and that that's not just in the reward pro uh, you know, space.
• 29:22
  Randy Weyersberg: Um I I think of that in all my interactions that are uh you know commercial in in uh in in in their frame, right?
• 29:31
  Randy Weyersberg: Make it easy for me to get what I want, when I want it, and how I want it.
• 29:35
  Jen LaForge: Somebody get this guy a big fat check, like stat.
• 29:39
  Jen LaForge: You'd be loyal for life, and you said you shop a lot.
• 29:43
  Jen LaForge: So um you do have a rack chin account?
• 29:46
  Randy Weyersberg: I do.
• 29:47
  Jen LaForge: That was a risky question for me.
• 29:49
  Jen LaForge: Like what to be said no.
• 29:51
  Randy Weyersberg: I do have one.
• 29:52
  Jen LaForge: I mean, who doesn't have a rack chin uh account?
• 29:54
  Jen LaForge: Um so curious then.
• 29:56
  Jen LaForge: Um I I think we're pretty simple.
• 29:58
  Jen LaForge: It's a click, we draw the tracking, we pay you.
• 30:01
  Jen LaForge: Yeah, um on a scale of one to ten, where where would you rate rack chin?
• 30:06
  Randy Weyersberg: I'd probably think it's an eight and a half.
• 30:07
  Randy Weyersberg: That's uh what I would think.
• 30:08
  Randy Weyersberg: It's um uh it was very frictionless.
• 30:11
  Randy Weyersberg: Uh I enjoyed the experience.
• 30:13
  Randy Weyersberg: Um I remember when I signed up, there was some great post-sign-up uh encouragement and uh tools and facilities to help me feel conf uh confident and comfortable using the the reward program.
• 30:27
  Randy Weyersberg: I like that.
• 30:28
  Randy Weyersberg: I want I I want somebody to hold my hand along the way, uh especially in the early days.
• 30:33
  Randy Weyersberg: Um I'm while I'm a marketer and very curious and willing to experiment, um, as a consumer, I'm still cautious, right?
• 30:43
  Randy Weyersberg: And I'm and there's still some degree of reluctance.
• 30:45
  Randy Weyersberg: And so if you can uh empower me and make me feel confident, I'm all there, right?
• 30:50
  Randy Weyersberg: And then Rakutin did that for me.
• 30:53
  Jen LaForge: You um thank you for that.
• 30:54
  Jen LaForge: Um we're gonna put a little bonus in your account.
• 30:57
  Jen LaForge: The but where you you made me think about something I thought about earlier.
• 31:01
  Jen LaForge: Um, and that is a there's yeah, we get labels, ever everybody does this, but like marketers are sometimes thought as very evil, right?
• 31:09
  Jen LaForge: And they're trying to manipulate you to do things that you didn't you don't necessarily want to do.
• 31:15
  Jen LaForge: But you know, I talk to marketers who, you know, within a company are usually the ones who care most about the customers and taking care of the customers and giving them what they want and protecting, you know, those touch points.
• 31:28
  Jen LaForge: Um, so I think it's it's fair to say that you guys are not evil.
• 31:34
  Jen LaForge: But but where where does marketing get a little evil?
• 31:39
  Jen LaForge: And have you seen that?
• 31:41
  Jen LaForge: Um, and what do you do with it when you see it?
• 31:44
  Randy Weyersberg: Yeah, marketing does uh on occasion uh get a bad rap.
• 31:48
  Randy Weyersberg: Um over my career, I think direct marketing at some time had that.
• 31:53
  Randy Weyersberg: Um it it just takes one story to spoil it for everybody else.
• 31:58
  Randy Weyersberg: And often you hear that story over and over again.
• 32:01
  Randy Weyersberg: Um, I'm like you.
• 32:02
  Randy Weyersberg: I believe that you know, people who are in marketing uh in the space that I occupy, uh, I feel very committed to doing what's right.
• 32:11
  Randy Weyersberg: And I feel very committed to really cheerleading the business and the and the operation.
• 32:16
  Randy Weyersberg: Um not every organization uh is clean, uh, and I think that's a question about leadership and how they encourage employees to really follow the values of the organization and to really meet the requirements of the of the consumer in a way that's honest and genuine.
• 32:35
  Randy Weyersberg: Uh so that's about people then rather than a profession.
• 32:38
  Randy Weyersberg: Um there one comment I will make, and and I I feel this today.
• 32:43
  Randy Weyersberg: I worked in the CPG industry and and and um some of the you know product formulation improvements that we were doing around food at the time, we thought we were doing the right thing.
• 32:54
  Randy Weyersberg: And I realized today, uh, and I'm a foodie and I love food and I and and I I cook extensively at the grocery store.
• 33:01
  Randy Weyersberg: One lady behind me says, I want to go to your house because I love cooking.
• 33:06
  Randy Weyersberg: And and I realize um uh if I knew then what I know today, I think I'd do something different, right?
• 33:14
  Randy Weyersberg: And and so you're you're caught up in a wave, this is like 30, 40 years ago, in a wave of understanding of of what's the context then.
• 33:24
  Randy Weyersberg: So I don't think anyone is malicious in terms of what they're doing and what they're promoting.
• 33:29
  Randy Weyersberg: We are all learning together and we're all moving as as human beings uh in trying to do the best, right?
• 33:36
  Randy Weyersberg: And that's how I would uh I would say that you know marketers really do want to do the right thing.
• 33:42
  Randy Weyersberg: And and and and at the end of the day, brands are built on trust.
• 33:47
  Randy Weyersberg: You erode that trust, you lose the faith of of your customer, and you will pay the price.
• 33:53
  Randy Weyersberg: And so beware.
• 33:54
  Jen LaForge: So I'd love that answer.
• 33:55
  Jen LaForge: And I fundamentally believe we're in our wave.
• 33:58
  Jen LaForge: And 30 years from now, they're gonna be talking about all the terrible things that we're doing.
• 34:02
  Jen LaForge: Um, although I don't think anyone will complain that we just give people money.
• 34:07
  Randy Weyersberg: I don't think so.
• 34:09
  Jen LaForge: Um so so we're not doing anything malicious, but I do want to touch on a sensitive topic within the marketing world, and it's tying in um AI and the speed and the capabilities with trust and consumers and the wave and all of it kind of combined.
• 34:23
  Jen LaForge: But what we're seeing is very scary in TikTok shops and online with these D2Cs or these products coming out, and we are relying on reviews and testimonies from real people, but there's fake reviews, there's fake products, and you know what?
• 34:42
  Jen LaForge: They don't have to care about retention because if they get a million people to buy this crappy product, it's all pure profit.
• 34:48
  Jen LaForge: Yeah.
• 34:49
  Jen LaForge: And then they can just turn around and do it to another product.
• 34:53
  Jen LaForge: And so that's where marketing is really evil.
• 34:55
  Jen LaForge: And I'm seeing that going rampant everywhere.
• 35:00
  Jen LaForge: And it's actually hurting consumer trust for a lot of companies and brands that are really caring about their actual customers.
• 35:07
  Jen LaForge: So is there, you know, from your perspective in your world in this wave we're in, you know, what caution or advice can you give to our consumers who keep falling into these traps?
• 35:19
  Jen LaForge: Like, how can you be more discerning about who cares?
• 35:24
  Randy Weyersberg: Yeah.
• 35:24
  Randy Weyersberg: So by the way, I think AI is going to help with that.
• 35:27
  Randy Weyersberg: Um I think that it'll be a lot harder for these tricksters, if you want, to game the system.
• 35:34
  Randy Weyersberg: Uh AI, you know, uh is is really redefining how it gives credentials to brands and and and it's not just one source, two source, three source, it's thousands of sources in an algorithm that creates confidence, right?
• 35:51
  Randy Weyersberg: And so it it's not like the it's if you think of the bully um or or the person who speaks the loudest, that's yesterday's world.
• 36:02
  Randy Weyersberg: And I think those are those are examples of what you're talking about.
• 36:06
  Randy Weyersberg: It's it's borderline criminal, right?
• 36:08
  Randy Weyersberg: They're manipulative, uh, and those are behaviors that I think will be put in check by AI.
• 36:14
  Randy Weyersberg: Um so you have to be aware of it.
• 36:17
  Randy Weyersberg: I'm I'm confident that AI is gonna help with it.
• 36:20
  Randy Weyersberg: Um, but I think consumers continuously have to be aware, right?
• 36:23
  Randy Weyersberg: That uh, you know, um trust, but verify.
• 36:27
  Randy Weyersberg: Uh how many times have I heard that from a board, right?
• 36:29
  Randy Weyersberg: We trust you, but we want to verify.
• 36:31
  Randy Weyersberg: Can you give us the stats?
• 36:32
  Randy Weyersberg: Can you give us the you know the data?
• 36:34
  Randy Weyersberg: Can you give us the quant?
• 36:35
  Randy Weyersberg: I think we always have to have that buyer-beware mentality.
• 36:39
  Jen LaForge: Yeah.
• 36:39
  Jen LaForge: You know what you made me think of the Canadian hippo.
• 36:42
  Jen LaForge: Do you remember the hippo?
• 36:43
  Jen LaForge: Canadian hippo was a commercial that came out, I think, in the 80s.
• 36:47
  Jen LaForge: Okay.
• 36:47
  Jen LaForge: And it was all about the house hippo.
• 36:49
  Jen LaForge: And it was like a story about the house hippo and how it lives.
• 36:53
  Jen LaForge: And then at the end, it was uh it it the message was about just being more discerning in what you're believing.
• 37:01
  Jen LaForge: Yes.
• 37:02
  Jen LaForge: Um, and so it was like we were advertising to Canadians, like be more discerning in advertising.
• 37:07
  Jen LaForge: You know that a house hippo, which was this cute little hippo.
• 37:11
  Randy Weyersberg: Yes, I remember now, and that's what you're describing.
• 37:12
  Randy Weyersberg: Yes, I'm at the house.
• 37:14
  Jen LaForge: So that's what you're making me think of that you know, we need the house hippo to come back and remind consumers to be safe.
• 37:20
  Randy Weyersberg: Yes.
• 37:20
  Randy Weyersberg: And and and uh again, yeah, uh what I'm sharing is that technology is an is an enabler, but there's always someone looking the game.
• 37:28
  Randy Weyersberg: I I remember the first time I saw ratings and reviews, I think it was in 2007 on a product.
• 37:35
  Randy Weyersberg: And I was like, my jaw dropped.
• 37:37
  Randy Weyersberg: I like, wow, this is powerful.
• 37:39
  Randy Weyersberg: And I remember at the time, uh in 2009, I was working uh at Bell the Source.
• 37:45
  Randy Weyersberg: I was the CMO there.
• 37:47
  Randy Weyersberg: And um uh my boss at the time was very open to technology, a seasoned veteran in the retail industry.
• 37:55
  Randy Weyersberg: Uh, and we we brought this capability.
• 37:57
  Randy Weyersberg: I'm not the one who found it, it was the technologist in the business.
• 38:01
  Randy Weyersberg: And uh we brought it in the room, and um the head merchant at the time said, Why would I want to do that?
• 38:08
  Randy Weyersberg: They're gonna, you know, consumers are gonna judge me for the decision I made.
• 38:12
  Randy Weyersberg: And my boss at the time said, that's exactly how we're gonna hold you accountable by through the voice of the customer.
• 38:19
  Randy Weyersberg: And I love that, right?
• 38:20
  Randy Weyersberg: And so, and of course, somebody figure out how to game ratings and reviews, but I think uh we we need to we need to we need to have faith that technology can can continue to do what's uh what's right and help the consumer make better choices.
• 38:34
  Jen LaForge: Yeah, I think faith is a survival mechanism.
• 38:37
  Jen LaForge: Yeah.
• 38:37
  Jen LaForge: Um and I also, funny thought from earlier um was just the comfort that I found in the speed of technology right now.
• 38:46
  Jen LaForge: And by that I mean if I step away for a couple of days and I'm not staying on top of what's happening and I come back three days later and I lean in again.
• 38:56
  Jen LaForge: Well, I haven't missed anything because we're well past that.
• 38:59
  Jen LaForge: And so there to me is a bit of a comfort in you don't have to stay on every minute of every day because you just have to keep up in leaps and bounds on where we're going.
• 39:11
  Jen LaForge: And so that's how I've been managing.
• 39:13
  Jen LaForge: Um and and now I'm gonna couple it with more faith.
• 39:17
  Jen LaForge: Um, but I wanna overall, uh I feel as like a lot of our conversation, and you're the authority on this, is trust on marketing in this high data AI technical, logical advancement, speed of light world.
• 39:32
  Jen LaForge: It's the worst description possible.
• 39:35
  Jen LaForge: I love it.
• 39:35
  Jen LaForge: So forgive me.
• 39:36
  Jen LaForge: It's come it, it's it's happening, it's all evolving fast.
• 39:39
  Jen LaForge: Um, but I mean, uh just how can consumers be more discerning and and trust certain marketing and and be more you know wary of others?
• 39:49
  Jen LaForge: Like what pointers and like actual takeaways can you give our consumers today?
• 39:54
  Randy Weyersberg: Yeah, so uh we live in a brand world.
• 39:56
  Randy Weyersberg: Um, you know, when when you think of relationships and um your network, your surrounding, your community, you build trust slowly and over time.
• 40:07
  Randy Weyersberg: I think that's that's how uh companies need to understand it, that's how the trust is built with them.
• 40:13
  Randy Weyersberg: Um, and that you need to invest in that trust as a company.
• 40:17
  Randy Weyersberg: Uh and you you need to be very clear about the value system that you you represent and and be uh and be demonstrating that time and time again.
• 40:28
  Randy Weyersberg: I I remember um that Michael Eisner, I think it was, at Disney, made the comment that trust is built one gesture at a time.
• 40:40
  Randy Weyersberg: And um and and and through those gestures, there there is also erosion because not you cannot control everybody.
• 40:48
  Randy Weyersberg: You can just channel the energy.
• 40:50
  Randy Weyersberg: And so as an organization, you need to be aware that uh how you're building that trust, but also as a consumer, you need to look for the signals that that that matter to you and and where you align with that brand.
• 41:05
  Randy Weyersberg: Um I uh I I love it when I uh when I think of some of the campaigns I've worked on uh that were very powerful.
• 41:14
  Randy Weyersberg: Um and and then and they're not every campaign.
• 41:18
  Randy Weyersberg: Um the ones that come to mind is when I was at Nike, uh when I worked at Mars on the pet food business, uh, and then at uh at OLG.
• 41:27
  Randy Weyersberg: There were there was a in each of those three organizations there was tremendously strong leadership, and they understood the power of trust and they understood those brands uh and wanted to truly, genuinely go overboard to do right.
• 41:44
  Randy Weyersberg: And so that empowers a marketer to do the right thing and gives them the freedom to do things that uh you would uh you would step into that you may not otherwise do.
• 41:54
  Randy Weyersberg: So um I don't know, it's it's a it's it's a complex matrix that has a consumer side and a and a business side to it.
• 42:02
  Randy Weyersberg: And somehow you find your way, and that's and I think that then you create this win-win dynamic for both the consumer and business.
• 42:09
  Randy Weyersberg: I really believe in that.
• 42:11
  Jen LaForge: It it almost feels like through that complex matrix, if you have that North Star, and that North Star is really caring and protecting about your customers, um, that you can navigate it.
• 42:23
  Randy Weyersberg: Absolutely.
• 42:24
  Randy Weyersberg: Uh, you know, it's funny you say the North Star.
• 42:26
  Randy Weyersberg: In each of those companies, they had the North Star.
• 42:28
  Randy Weyersberg: And it was very well articulated.
• 42:31
  Randy Weyersberg: Uh and and and and it's one thing to articulate, it's one that it's ingrained in the fabric.
• 42:37
  Randy Weyersberg: Um, you know, Mars, the the at the time that I was there, Jackie Forrest and John were in the business and and and they walked the talk, right?
• 42:47
  Randy Weyersberg: And so you need to understand how do you bring that to life.
• 42:51
  Randy Weyersberg: You can't always have uh, you know, a family member or owner of a business do that.
• 42:56
  Randy Weyersberg: Uh Phil Knight did it at Nike, right, when I was there.
• 43:00
  Randy Weyersberg: Uh and so it's uh it's powerful, but that North Star is really the the the fundamental of it.
• 43:06
  Randy Weyersberg: No question.
• 43:06
  Randy Weyersberg: Sounds it sounds trivial, it's not.
• 43:09
  Randy Weyersberg: And it really makes a difference.
• 43:11
  Jen LaForge: Yeah, it's funny.
• 43:12
  Jen LaForge: We tend to dismiss trivial things, but time and again, the proof's in the pudding.
• 43:16
  Jen LaForge: So um I subconsciously knew all of those uh those companies had a North Star.
• 43:21
  Jen LaForge: So um, as do we.
• 43:23
  Jen LaForge: Um so Randy, uh one of the challenges I have when I have a wonderful guest that I can talk to about a thousand things um for a thousand hours is that we don't have a thousand hours uh and we can't talk about a thousand things.
• 43:38
  Jen LaForge: So unfortunately, we're out of time and we didn't touch on half of what I wanted to touch on with you, but I really loved your perspective and how we could kind of marry that evil misperception marketing side more with the consumer journey to help people navigate what's happening out there through AI and and maintain that trust.
• 43:58
  Jen LaForge: So thank you for bringing your wealth of experience.
• 44:01
  Jen LaForge: I may ask you to come back.
• 44:02
  Jen LaForge: Actually, I will right now, please come back.
• 44:05
  Jen LaForge: Um, and we'll talk some more.
• 44:07
  Jen LaForge: But thank you again for coming.
• 44:08
  Jen LaForge: And if there's one last uh tip or advice on this topic that you want to give to the audience, now's your time.
• 44:14
  Jen LaForge: And if you can't think of anything, just maybe tell every CEO out there to look at the MMM model for me.
• 44:21
  Randy Weyersberg: Yeah, certainly look at the MMM.
• 44:23
  Randy Weyersberg: Um, it has been the feather of my calf for 15 years.
• 44:26
  Randy Weyersberg: Uh I'm known as the guy who brought MMM and marketing in so many companies.
• 44:31
  Randy Weyersberg: Um, but I I if there's one thought I would leave with with the audience, and I I think it holds true for anyone.
• 44:37
  Randy Weyersberg: Uh, it could be business leaders, could be, you know, teams as a as a collective and consumers, just be curious, right?
• 44:45
  Randy Weyersberg: I mean, we are in a very unique time and space.
• 44:49
  Randy Weyersberg: Um one regret I have is that I'm I'm I'm at the clearly in the end of my career.
• 44:57
  Randy Weyersberg: I wish it was at the beginning.
• 44:58
  Randy Weyersberg: I get goosebumps just thinking about what that next generation uh has to work with, right?
• 45:05
  Randy Weyersberg: And and truly marketing is an art and a science.
• 45:08
  Randy Weyersberg: Science is ruling now, right?
• 45:10
  Randy Weyersberg: And it's has that opportunity.
• 45:12
  Randy Weyersberg: And so be curious about it.
• 45:13
  Jen LaForge: I love that.
• 45:14
  Jen LaForge: Feels like a life lesson too.
• 45:15
  Jen LaForge: Be curious.
• 45:16
  Jen LaForge: And that's it for this episode of Stack.
• 45:18
  Jen LaForge: If you found this useful, follow along as we interview leaders shaping the future of retail and learn how value really works behind the scenes.
• 45:26
  Jen LaForge: And if there's a topic you want us to unpack, I'd love to hear from you.
• 45:30
  Jen LaForge: See you next time.