Latest / True Crime with Gavin Fish / New Leaks, Old Lies: The Latest Twists in the Judge Mullins Murder

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New Leaks, Old Lies: The Latest Twists in the Judge Mullins Murder · True Crime with Gavin Fish

• 0:01
  Ladies and gentlemen, the last time we were together talking
• 0:04
  about the murder of Kevin Mullins, news had just kind of
• 0:07
  broken that Lila Steins, the daughter of Mickey Steins, had
• 0:13
  broken her silence. And for the last couple of
• 0:15
  weeks, that's all people have been talking about.
• 0:18
  But there's other stuff happening in Letcher County.
• 0:20
  And we're going to have a talk with Elizabeth Jones from
• 0:24
  Hillbilly Crime, who is joining us.
• 0:26
  Talk about sacrifice. Joining us from her truck, from
• 0:31
  her from a basketball game, which is amazing.
• 0:35
  So stick with us. This video contains mature
• 0:50
  themes and discussions intended only for adult audiences.
• 0:54
  Viewer discretion is advised. Hello there, my friend.
• 0:59
  Welcome back. Thank you very much for joining
• 1:00
  me for another true crime conversation with me, Gavin
• 1:04
  Fish, right here on my channel also named Gavin Fish.
• 1:07
  There are two Gavin Fishes. One's a YouTube channel, 1's a
• 1:10
  bearded fat guy living in Western Pennsylvania, and he is
• 1:13
  joined on this YouTube channel by Elizabeth Jones.
• 1:16
  Hi. Fish, thanks again.
• 1:22
  Thank you so much for coming. We guys, Elizabeth, what
• 1:27
  happened was I asked her, hey, is Thursday or Friday better?
• 1:30
  And you looked at the calendar and thought Friday's better and
• 1:33
  said Thursday's better, right? Yeah.
• 1:37
  That's exactly what happened. That happens, that happens.
• 1:41
  But thanks so much for making it.
• 1:42
  And we're going to we're going to run through this because you
• 1:45
  you got another game to watch. Is that what's going on?
• 1:48
  Yeah, we just finished AB game and now we've got our A-Team
• 1:54
  game. Is this for like high school or
• 1:57
  is this a community club event? What is it?
• 2:01
  It's middle school and my one son play is in 7th grade and
• 2:06
  plays and then my other son is in 8th grade and he plays so I
• 2:11
  have. 2 so 2 games. My goodness, you know, I was not
• 2:16
  a sports kid in school. I was not at all.
• 2:20
  I was AI was a theater kid. I was a photography kid.
• 2:24
  I was a nerdy kid. But my dad talks about how just
• 2:30
  how huge and meaningful it was for him that his mom did not
• 2:33
  miss his games almost ever. She was she was there.
• 2:37
  So you're you're doing the Lord's work right there.
• 2:40
  I, I am a firm believer in prevention.
• 2:46
  You know, this area of Kentucky has been so decimated by opioid
• 2:53
  abuse and just addiction period. You know, as time moves on, so
• 2:59
  does the specific substances that are popular.
• 3:04
  You know, government or law enforcement will get a handle or
• 3:08
  at least try to get a handle on some, on one specific substance.
• 3:12
  And like the opioids, whenever they really crack down on
• 3:16
  getting prescription pain meds and stuff like that, it moved on
• 3:22
  to methamphetamine. And so that became the most
• 3:25
  popular. And, you know, I, I don't ever
• 3:30
  hear anybody else talking about all of this.
• 3:34
  I feel kind of like the, the forerunner of preaching ABS or
• 3:39
  prevention. You know, prevention I think is
• 3:43
  where we need to be putting all these hundreds of millions of
• 3:47
  dollars is into these prevention programs to try and get a hold
• 3:51
  of our young kids because that's where it starts.
• 3:55
  You know, putting all this money and spending all this money on
• 3:59
  the back end of it really has a very low success rate, You know,
• 4:06
  in any form or fashion, whether you want to call it abstinence
• 4:09
  or medically assisted, You know, my my own personal experience is
• 4:15
  very rare. You know, there's not very many
• 4:18
  people that have been able to turn their lives around as much
• 4:24
  as, you know, what some people have and.
• 4:27
  Yeah, I wonder that. Is where I want that money.
• 4:30
  I think you and I are roughly the same age ish, something like
• 4:34
  that. So I I remember going to the
• 4:38
  school assemblies and watching the movies and having the talks
• 4:41
  about drugs and stuff like that, which I always thought was just
• 4:44
  so stupid. But I was never tempted with it.
• 4:47
  Like I, it was never a thing that ever crossed my, my radar,
• 4:53
  you know, So I'm not a really good avatar of knowing, you
• 4:57
  know, those were the days of Nancy Reagan saying just say no
• 5:01
  and things like that, right? And that honestly worked with
• 5:05
  me. I just was like, yeah, no, I'm,
• 5:06
  I'm not doing it. But but I do think that intact
• 5:10
  families work, you know, parents working with their kids, having
• 5:15
  them do sports programs, having them.
• 5:17
  It doesn't have to be sports either.
• 5:18
  Like, sports wouldn't have worked with me, right?
• 5:21
  But but I had awesome, like, theater experiences and things
• 5:25
  like that, right? So yeah, no, that's cool.
• 5:28
  There's other, there's other extracurricular activities.
• 5:31
  It doesn't have to be sports, like you said, theater, you
• 5:35
  know, there's all my other son did Lego Club.
• 5:39
  They have a Lego Club now, you know.
• 5:42
  Yeah. And it's really neat, like they
• 5:44
  were taking Legos and making real things that worked, like
• 5:50
  they were using math and science.
• 5:52
  And one of the things that my son created was it was something
• 5:59
  that went along the bottom of the ocean floor and he gave it
• 6:06
  like a, a windshield. And he said I even put
• 6:09
  windshield wipers on. That's cute.
• 6:13
  Now our our middle schooler is into robotics and yeah, does
• 6:19
  competitive robotics and stuff like that.
• 6:21
  It's really cool. Awesome.
• 6:22
  OK, Elizabeth, what's going on down there in Letcher County on
• 6:30
  your channel this week? You're talking about so many
• 6:33
  different things that are going on down there.
• 6:36
  What is happening? In fact, when I text you saying
• 6:39
  asking if you want to come on, you're like, oh, there's lots to
• 6:41
  talk about. What is going on down there?
• 6:45
  Well, I think that there is some targeting going on.
• 6:51
  I think that there's some some some stuff that's going on
• 6:54
  behind the scenes that I don't think we are all too
• 6:58
  understanding of. So there was a really big
• 7:07
  response from the world of my dad whenever Mickey Stein's
• 7:14
  daughter came out and did her TikTok reveal.
• 7:20
  This whole year, ever since the shooting happened, nobody has
• 7:24
  heard from her. She did not come out and speak
• 7:27
  on any of it, but she came out with that very first video which
• 7:34
  I caught your guest appearance on Law and Crime.
• 7:39
  Yeah. Where you yeah, where you talked
• 7:42
  about it with Anjanette. And, you know, I feel like that
• 7:51
  first video was out of frustration.
• 7:54
  And this is just my my own perception of it.
• 7:57
  I think that first one was out of frustration.
• 8:00
  I think it was to try and kind of put people like you and me
• 8:04
  and our place about, you know, discussing this case.
• 8:10
  I guess I don't know. And so the whole I feel like the
• 8:14
  whole world kind of responded. I know I did.
• 8:17
  I know that several other TikTok people, people did videos on
• 8:23
  that video. So then she came out and she did
• 8:26
  the second one, which I think was a way to explain away the
• 8:33
  things that she said in her first video.
• 8:35
  She was like, I had good intentions with that video, but
• 8:39
  it was a video to put people in our place, you know, so, and,
• 8:44
  and it was like, oh, I just didn't think anybody was going
• 8:47
  to see it. But on the bottom of it, you've
• 8:50
  got #viral and hashtag trending. So I think that was kind of
• 8:55
  disingenuous, you know? But then the third video came
• 9:01
  out and was kind of revealing Joel Cotton.
• 9:09
  Yeah. Who is the private investigator
• 9:13
  for the defense team of her father, right?
• 9:17
  Mickey Stotts, right. Well, he has been here several
• 9:21
  times over the years since the shooting happened.
• 9:25
  Several of our, well, I don't know about several, a couple of
• 9:28
  our politicians even came out and made posts and videos over
• 9:35
  this past year saying one of them was from Matt Butler, the
• 9:39
  prosecutor, saying it's come to our attention that there is
• 9:43
  someone going around town claiming to be an investigator.
• 9:49
  He is not with our office. And so I just want to make sure
• 9:54
  that everybody knows, you know, paraphrasing here.
• 9:57
  I don't think he ever claimed that he was with the office,
• 9:59
  right? He's just a private
• 10:01
  investigator. There are two sides to every
• 10:03
  court, you know, right? But you know how?
• 10:06
  But you know how rumors get started?
• 10:08
  You know that it was going around the county, that there
• 10:12
  was an investigator, you know, and who knows what those rumors
• 10:16
  were saying? You know who, we don't know who
• 10:21
  was claiming to be what or who was just talking about somebody,
• 10:26
  but you know, it did whatever. But still the prosecutor came
• 10:30
  out and just said that, right. So and then there were other
• 10:35
  people over this past year that have come out and just addressed
• 10:39
  it. And so whenever she, when Lila
• 10:44
  Steins did that third video and was like here, Joel Cotton, you
• 10:49
  know, he's investigating all the corruption in town and, and, you
• 10:54
  know, just kind of gave this introduction to him.
• 10:58
  I did my, I do a video every night.
• 11:00
  You know, I have a show every single night.
• 11:02
  So I just commented on it and I said that, you know, don't get
• 11:07
  it twisted. He's not a police officer.
• 11:10
  He's not working with the County Attorney or the attorney
• 11:17
  general's office. He's an investigator for the
• 11:20
  defense team of Mickey Stein's, I mean.
• 11:25
  That seems reasonable, sure. Right, that seems reasonable.
• 11:30
  Well, we've got Taya Adams, who was in my live chat on that
• 11:36
  show, and whenever I said that, she just started spamming my
• 11:42
  live chat with all this stuff. Why are you turning against us?
• 11:47
  Why are you doing this, Liz? Why are you?
• 11:50
  And then it got more personal and more provocative.
• 11:55
  She started attacking me personally and just saying some
• 11:59
  really awful things. So I put her in time out on my
• 12:03
  live chat. OK, She took a bunch.
• 12:06
  She took screenshots of that time out and immediately went to
• 12:09
  Facebook and put it on, you know, on Facebook.
• 12:12
  Oh my God, Look at what Elizabeth's done.
• 12:14
  And it just went from there. Just snowballed in like one
• 12:19
  night. And I didn't say anything else.
• 12:22
  That was it. I just went ahead and block,
• 12:24
  block, block, block, block. And it just went haywire from
• 12:29
  there. Is she not understanding?
• 12:32
  Like it doesn't seem, at least from the way you've
• 12:36
  characterized it, it doesn't seem like you said anything
• 12:39
  other than what the truth is, right?
• 12:41
  Right. Right, exactly, exactly.
• 12:46
  So then what? It was what?
• 12:49
  The next day or two days after that, we have a ball game.
• 12:54
  So let me say this, the Friday before was our meet the Cavs and
• 12:59
  I've got two kids on the team. You know this we, we are at
• 13:03
  every whether it's basketball, baseball, you know, my kids play
• 13:06
  at all and I've been there. I've got 10 years of proof on my
• 13:11
  timeline where I take pictures. I'm a photographer, I'm a
• 13:16
  videographer. You know, I do it all for the
• 13:18
  ball, for our ball team, for my kids and our kids not, not
• 13:23
  associated with the school or anything, just myself.
• 13:27
  So we go there. Well, I see Miss Steins there
• 13:32
  now. She doesn't, She's 18.
• 13:34
  She doesn't have any kids. I mean, she's more than welcome
• 13:36
  to come to the ball game, of course.
• 13:37
  But when she shows up, showed up, she was sitting by herself
• 13:41
  in the middle of the bleachers. I didn't see her with anybody,
• 13:46
  but I didn't take any pictures of her.
• 13:48
  I didn't mention it on my show that she was there.
• 13:51
  I didn't say anything. Well, then the next week, she at
• 13:55
  our very first game, she comes back again the second time, but
• 14:01
  this time she sits directly behind me, in the stands,
• 14:06
  directly behind me. And I've been there for 30
• 14:10
  minutes videoing and taking pictures of my kids, of course.
• 14:15
  And so she sits there and a few people, we've got bleachers on
• 14:20
  both sides of the gym. You know, it's not just on one
• 14:24
  side. Well, there were a couple of
• 14:26
  people that were at that game who took pictures of her sitting
• 14:30
  directly behind me in the stands, and they sent them to
• 14:33
  me. And so, you know, I was like,
• 14:37
  man, I would have ever believed that she had come in and sat,
• 14:43
  you know, up there behind me. Do you think she did that on
• 14:45
  purpose? I didn't at first, but I'm
• 14:49
  starting to wonder because there has been this hate campaign that
• 14:54
  has come immediately. I think it was a setup.
• 14:59
  I think it was a setup. I think that she came the first
• 15:01
  time and I didn't take the bait, and then the second time I think
• 15:06
  she was coming back and this time she pushed it a little bit
• 15:09
  further and sat right next to me.
• 15:12
  OK. But hang on, like if, if I,
• 15:15
  well, maybe it's because of like my reporter curiosity, I totally
• 15:20
  would have gone up to her and started talking to her.
• 15:23
  I would have been. Well, I'm sure, but it was loud.
• 15:26
  It was loud. You're in a loud ball game, you
• 15:29
  know. What's the problem with you
• 15:30
  being in the same vicinity as Lila Stein's?
• 15:33
  You haven't said anything. No.
• 15:38
  As far as as far as what I can kind of figure, I mean, Letcher
• 15:43
  County is kind of behind Mickey Stein's.
• 15:45
  They're kind of like, they kind of like the guy.
• 15:49
  They think that maybe he did the right thing there, right?
• 15:53
  Well, some of them are. Some of them are and some of
• 15:56
  them aren't, you know, a lot of people just because he was a
• 16:02
  nice guy and he helped a lot of people, you know, So they say, I
• 16:08
  mean, I don't know how he helped them, but does that mean that,
• 16:15
  you know, I mean, what we're talking about is the murder of a
• 16:18
  sitting judge. That that is what we're talking
• 16:21
  about, that is. You know, and, and people are
• 16:24
  like, Oh my God, you're being so mean to this little girl.
• 16:31
  And I have never said the first mean thing about this girl.
• 16:35
  I have absolutely no dog in the fat you know.
• 16:40
  But I why I think this was a setup is because as soon as I
• 16:47
  posted that picture and all I said I didn't point her out.
• 16:51
  I did not say her name. I just said I had a great time
• 16:56
  at my kids first ball game, surprise surprise.
• 17:00
  And that was all I said. And you would have thought that
• 17:04
  I had shot the judge myself. It was such a an attack on my
• 17:10
  Facebook post. Like there was 50 people and
• 17:14
  even people that I thought were my friends, people who were in
• 17:19
  that picture that were sitting right there, who I was sitting
• 17:23
  with, they themselves even want to sit there and act like, oh,
• 17:29
  she's a child. Oh, you shouldn't have done
• 17:32
  that. What did I do that was so bad
• 17:35
  that I posted a picture of myself at my own kids ball game?
• 17:41
  Like what should I have done? Can I find this?
• 17:43
  Picture on Facebook or something.
• 17:45
  Should I have? Yeah, It's on my, it's pinned on
• 17:48
  my Facebook page. But what should I have done?
• 17:52
  Should I have gotten up and and moved to make sure that nobody
• 17:57
  took a picture? Everybody said, well, she's not
• 18:00
  a celebrity. Well, nobody said anything about
• 18:03
  her. Nobody mentioned her.
• 18:06
  Nobody said anything. It was a photograph of me.
• 18:10
  That's me in the green hoodie, sitting down next to the lady in
• 18:14
  the scrubs. Yeah, and Lila's on her other
• 18:19
  side. Behind her?
• 18:21
  Yep. Yeah, Nobody.
• 18:23
  Nobody said anything about her. Nobody said anything about her.
• 18:28
  Nobody mentioned her name. That's a photograph of me.
• 18:32
  So now I can't put my a photograph of myself at my own
• 18:37
  kids ball game with that. Look down through all those
• 18:40
  comments and you'll see exactly why I feel the way that I do.
• 18:44
  What? Let's holy cow.
• 18:48
  Oh you better. But yeah, and I accidentally had
• 18:52
  my post set to friends of friends, so that was a big
• 18:57
  mistake. Nobody that like my YouTube
• 19:01
  people couldn't comment on it. So here's my question.
• 19:06
  I mean, look, the only thing that I have said about Lila
• 19:11
  Stein's is that she, I thought it was kind of brave of her to
• 19:15
  kind of stand up and, and do what she did.
• 19:18
  I, I felt like she was kind of lashing out, But I understood
• 19:23
  that this is an 18 year old girl.
• 19:26
  And I think I told Anne Jeanette that my first reaction was I
• 19:29
  clutched my pearls. My goodness me, she's coming
• 19:31
  after me, you know, but but once I kind of got over that, I was
• 19:35
  like, well, she's entitled to her opinion.
• 19:38
  And that's, I think that's the worst that I've said about Lila
• 19:42
  Steinz And, and I, I stick by it.
• 19:44
  She, she can, she can say the things that she said.
• 19:49
  It's perfectly fine to express her opinion.
• 19:52
  And I think that she's in a good place to help her dad's case
• 19:55
  too. I really do.
• 19:57
  I, I think she could hurt it for sure, but I but she is building
• 20:02
  a bit of an audience. I think she's got 5 or 6 videos
• 20:05
  up on TikTok now she's doing like get ready with me's and
• 20:08
  stuff like that, right? And didn't I see her on like
• 20:11
  Inside Edition or something? I mean, I didn't watch it but.
• 20:15
  I don't see, I don't ever go watch.
• 20:17
  I don't, I don't, I don't even look at their stuff.
• 20:21
  I never look at any of that. I'm too busy preparing for my
• 20:25
  own stuff, you know, But people will send me, you know, whatever
• 20:30
  I've seen, it's been because somebody has sent it to me.
• 20:35
  There's a there's another piece to this that I haven't even told
• 20:39
  on my show yet, but I'm, I'm going.
• 20:41
  I'm. Going to Let's do it.
• 20:44
  Yeah, I so I'll go ahead and spill it with you all.
• 20:48
  Right. And then everybody go to
• 20:50
  Elizabeth's Channel tonight. Yeah, so the day after that ball
• 20:56
  game, the day after I posted that, one of their lawyers sent
• 21:03
  me an e-mail, an e-mail telling me that I needed to cease and
• 21:09
  assist, that I used her image without her permission, without
• 21:14
  her consent. I guess they're not telling me
• 21:17
  what I've done. But then I find out I it's not
• 21:22
  that I found out. It ain't even legit.
• 21:25
  Like they ain't nobody served me with nothing.
• 21:28
  They trying to scare me with an intimidation tactic in an e-mail
• 21:34
  that's not even legit, you know, like you have to serve me.
• 21:38
  I have to be served in person with that.
• 21:42
  I've done sent it to my lawyer, you know, so it's an
• 21:46
  intimidation tactic and it was done the very next day after
• 21:49
  that ball game. So that's.
• 21:51
  Why? How many times has that happened
• 21:52
  to you so far? As a YouTube, that's number one.
• 21:57
  OK, the first time that happened to me, I get a call from ABC
• 22:02
  News. I'm like somewhere I get a call
• 22:06
  from ABC News asking for a comment on the letter that I
• 22:12
  received from Mr. Johnson. I said, I don't know what you're
• 22:15
  talking about. And she goes, well, I was copied
• 22:19
  on it. Governor Shapiro was copied on
• 22:20
  it. You haven't seen it yet.
• 22:21
  And like, no. So I, I go home and sure enough,
• 22:26
  a, it was a Pennsylvania constable had delivered a very
• 22:31
  threatening cease and desist letter, which is how process is
• 22:35
  served here in the Commonwealth. And my wife had had just
• 22:39
  accepted it and put the envelope on the, on the mantle or
• 22:42
  something. When So when I got home, like
• 22:46
  the governor of our state and ABC News had already seen it and
• 22:51
  like it was ABC 2020, they'd seen it before, before I did.
• 22:56
  And it's scary, right? Like it's really scary.
• 22:58
  I ended up hiring a Pittsburgh law firm that specialized in
• 23:04
  defamation tort. So, and it was not, it was not
• 23:10
  cheap. What I paid for that law firm to
• 23:14
  basically tell Mister Johnson and his clients to pound salt,
• 23:20
  Right. But since then, I've gotten so
• 23:23
  many of those. Yeah.
• 23:25
  I'm not scared. They didn't scare me.
• 23:27
  All they did was piss me off because I know better.
• 23:32
  I know better. She put up videos on TikTok that
• 23:37
  got what, 20 million views? You know, And I am not the only
• 23:44
  creator who has covered her coming out and talking.
• 23:49
  This is a national case. It's.
• 23:52
  A national. Story.
• 23:54
  If you like if you Google Lila Stein's and look how many.
• 24:00
  Creators have done Tik Toks. We're talking Court TV, New York
• 24:05
  Post, News Nation, Fox News, Daily Mail, Like Courier
• 24:11
  Journal, Lexington Herald. And they're wanting to pick on
• 24:13
  me. They're wanting to pick on me.
• 24:16
  Yeah. Nobody else but me.
• 24:19
  Bullshit. Bullshit, Gavin.
• 24:22
  Bullshit. You're OK.
• 24:24
  You're I don't blame you, but it is funny because to do a cease
• 24:31
  and desist of posting a picture that was at a public place in a
• 24:35
  public building at a public event.
• 24:38
  With me in the picture, sure. You have no expectation of
• 24:42
  privacy in public. Nobody does.
• 24:45
  At a ball gang, Yeah, at a ball gang where everybody's taking
• 24:49
  pictures, everybody in there is taking pictures, and you think
• 24:52
  she ain't going to get in a picture?
• 24:54
  Yeah, that's funny. That's interesting.
• 24:56
  And the lawyer and the lawyer's office that sent it to me is
• 25:00
  from Moorhead, which is up there where the Bartleys are from.
• 25:04
  So that makes me wonder. I don't know.
• 25:11
  Well, it seems like the Bartleys are every well, I don't, I
• 25:14
  haven't seen him in a while, but they, they were all over the
• 25:19
  news and and they were all over the true crime space.
• 25:23
  They they talked with everybody. I think the more attention the
• 25:26
  case gets, including Lila, I think the better it is for them.
• 25:32
  Yeah. What what do you think is going
• 25:35
  to happen as far as the prosecution's motion to change
• 25:39
  venue? What do you think is going to
• 25:41
  happen there? I think they'll get it changed
• 25:44
  and it'll probably go to Bowling Green, which is where that judge
• 25:48
  is from, all the way on the western side of the state.
• 25:53
  How? How far away is that?
• 25:56
  It's a good six hours, 6 or 7 hour drive.
• 25:59
  I think we went, I went one time.
• 26:03
  It was a long time. Yeah, that's a, that's a hike.
• 26:07
  Even for me, that's that's a bit of a hike.
• 26:11
  Yeah. I don't know.
• 26:13
  I don't know. I haven't seen anything else in
• 26:15
  the case. Go on.
• 26:16
  There's like when's the next hearing?
• 26:18
  When When is any of this happening?
• 26:21
  There's there's cut, there's been kind of this big shift here
• 26:26
  lately. And I'll tell you what the shift
• 26:29
  is. It's about the, the whole victim
• 26:34
  versus prostitution thing. What a lot of what I'm hearing
• 26:40
  from a whole lot of people now is that a lot of people don't
• 26:45
  consider women like Taya A victim.
• 26:49
  They, they, because they've come out and they've said, Oh yeah,
• 26:54
  you know, well, we've done dope off the judge's desk, you know,
• 26:58
  and the judge has done it off my high end and, you know, just all
• 27:02
  this stuff. We all had a great time until
• 27:05
  they didn't, right Until they got in trouble.
• 27:09
  And then whenever they got in trouble, they were treated they,
• 27:13
  you know, like everybody else, I guess.
• 27:16
  I don't know, but a lot of women, you know, look at where
• 27:21
  we're at, we're over a year into this and there's been absolutely
• 27:26
  0 physical evidence or direct evidence come out that the judge
• 27:33
  has really done anything. I mean, we know that he was kind
• 27:36
  of a, you know, a ladies man, at least from the rumors.
• 27:40
  Allegedly he was alleged ladies man.
• 27:43
  He paid prostitutes allegedly first smacks, but you know, I so
• 27:52
  there's just this change. There's this big shift going on
• 27:56
  where people are starting to be like, hey, you know, they knew
• 28:02
  what they were doing. They knew that the that they had
• 28:05
  this get out of jail free card with the judge.
• 28:09
  And that's why we're not seeing a lot of women come forward now
• 28:13
  from what I was told, because I spoke to one of them's mother
• 28:18
  today and she was like, you know, that's why my daughter
• 28:21
  won't come forward because she said, you know, I was, I was
• 28:27
  part of it. You know, I was participating in
• 28:29
  this. The problem with the idea that
• 28:31
  Taya was not a victim is that is that OK?
• 28:41
  The problem with that is that those that say a person, a
• 28:47
  person in Taya's position, what she said happened.
• 28:52
  Now they're not talking about the 16 year old, they're talking
• 28:55
  about paying for sex. Yeah, I get it.
• 28:58
  But the but it started when she was a 16 year old and the power
• 29:03
  imbalance, even if there's no power imbalance, even if even if
• 29:06
  she's 30, the power imbalance is what makes it non consensual.
• 29:14
  I get it. I get it.
• 29:16
  And that's me and you. But you're asking me what?
• 29:20
  Or well, you didn't ask me, I'm telling you.
• 29:22
  But that's where the shift is coming in this in the community.
• 29:29
  You know, this is what I'm being told by people in the community
• 29:34
  that they're not, you know, they're not sold on this big.
• 29:41
  You know, he because we don't have any evidence yet.
• 29:45
  Nobody's coming forward. You know, you've only got one
• 29:49
  person's word. And I've done seen how many lies
• 29:54
  have been coming out of her mouth.
• 29:57
  She's going around saying I was at those parties.
• 30:00
  Well, if you can flip on me and then create bring up all these
• 30:04
  lies about me being at these parties with you and, and all
• 30:10
  this just crazy talk like she's a witch and she's going up into
• 30:15
  the woods to cast spells on me and just all this craziness, you
• 30:19
  know, And so a lot of people are seeing all and it's not just me,
• 30:24
  you know, this is playing out on YouTube, it's playing out on
• 30:29
  social media and people are messaging me and being like,
• 30:33
  well, you know, seeing what is unfolding it before our very
• 30:39
  eyes right now. How can we believe anything she
• 30:42
  said about the judge, you know? Yeah, RJG says.
• 30:49
  I wonder what attorney sent that letter and is it bogus?
• 30:52
  I thought the Bartleys are from Somerset.
• 30:54
  I don't know the geography down there.
• 30:57
  It wasn't the Bartleys that sent me that letter.
• 31:01
  It was, but it was a legit attorney.
• 31:04
  Well, it was AI guess. Yeah, I guess it was their legal
• 31:09
  assistant who sent an e-mail that says it has come to our
• 31:15
  attention that you are talking defamatory on your hillbilly
• 31:21
  crime podcast. But they didn't say what I said.
• 31:25
  They didn't say what picture I posted that was supposedly using
• 31:29
  her image without her consent. And if you go on TikTok and you
• 31:35
  put her name in the search bar, it just goes and goes and goes
• 31:42
  with creators who have covered her Tik Toks.
• 31:47
  So, you know, I feel targeted. I feel like once again, here you
• 31:55
  are trying to pick on me. You know, I tried to get a job.
• 31:59
  I was blacklisted in that county for 10 years, you know, and then
• 32:03
  you tell me to get a job, Honey, I got one.
• 32:07
  I made my own. Your daddy wouldn't hire me.
• 32:11
  Your daddy wouldn't talk to me as well as the rest of them.
• 32:16
  So I made my own job, and I can't help who likes it and who
• 32:21
  don't. My bank account likes it, and
• 32:23
  that's all that matters. I'm paying my power bill every
• 32:26
  month and I don't say anything. I don't attack nobody.
• 32:31
  I ain't attacked that girl. I ain't said nothing about that
• 32:35
  girl other than my observation covering the case, which is no
• 32:40
  different than anybody else. I can't.
• 32:43
  Help it that you've got that you don't like me.
• 32:46
  It does feel like, like Lila Stines was off limits for me
• 32:55
  when she was actually, she would have been completely off limits
• 32:59
  for me forever because she was a minor when this all happened.
• 33:06
  She would have been completely off limits for me forever until
• 33:10
  she decided to to join the conversation.
• 33:13
  And then but I've just observed that.
• 33:17
  I mean, I think she's, I think she's an adorable girl.
• 33:21
  I think that she does a pretty darn good job in front of the
• 33:24
  camera. I think that she had obviously
• 33:26
  has some frustrations and has something to say.
• 33:28
  So go out and say it and and bless you for it.
• 33:31
  Go be successful. I'm happy for him.
• 33:33
  That's all I care about. I just don't want to be the
• 33:37
  reason that you know, if you want to go do all that, I Ditto.
• 33:41
  I Ditto everything that you just said.
• 33:44
  But why come after me? You know, Oh, hillbilly crime
• 33:49
  over here. Why come after me?
• 33:53
  I don't understand that. Is it is she coming after you or
• 33:57
  is it other people that are? Well, I mean.
• 34:04
  Well, it depends on who hired that lawyer I guess, right?
• 34:07
  I guess so. I think.
• 34:10
  She's the one who can. She's the one who came up here
• 34:13
  and sat behind me. You know, I don't think anybody
• 34:16
  else did that. And it was they're representing
• 34:19
  her. You know, she's not a child, as
• 34:21
  she very well informed the world.
• 34:25
  She's not a child anymore. So you can't have it both ways.
• 34:28
  You can't say she's a child. She's a child and then, oh, but
• 34:34
  she's an adult. You know, I mean, I realized
• 34:36
  that she's a fresh actually, you know, of age adult.
• 34:40
  But we have to, we are all we every single one have
• 34:45
  consequences for our actions. We every single one have
• 34:51
  consequences of things that we say and things that we don't
• 34:56
  say. You know, silence speaks just as
• 35:00
  much as words do sometimes. Sure, sure.
• 35:04
  You know, and I've worked my ass off, I've worked my ass off for
• 35:10
  the last 15 years to achieve a, a level of stability and
• 35:18
  professionalism to where I could support myself and be a
• 35:25
  productive member of society. I have done that and none of
• 35:31
  these people wanted to be my friend before.
• 35:34
  None of these people ever wanted to help me.
• 35:37
  Nobody ever wanted to crack the door and let me get my foot in
• 35:40
  the door. Nobody put a good word in for
• 35:43
  me. Nobody even, you know, smiled at
• 35:47
  me and acknowledged my existence.
• 35:49
  Now they would send me away crying, being so mean and rude
• 35:55
  and disrespectful, you know, like I have paid my dues.
• 36:00
  Yeah, I paid my dues, you know. So then for somebody to look at
• 36:05
  me and, and, you know, I don't take, I didn't take too kindly
• 36:11
  to that. I mean, I'm only human too, you
• 36:14
  know? I think I deserve grace, too.
• 36:18
  Sure, sure. What do you got?
• 36:21
  Are you going to talk about this a little more on your channel
• 36:23
  tonight? I didn't plan on talking about
• 36:27
  it on your show. I'm sorry, Gavin.
• 36:33
  You're feeling some kind of way tonight and that's cool.
• 36:35
  That's perfectly fine. Just, you know, you know, the
• 36:41
  I'm just, I'm looking forward to actual movement in the case.
• 36:45
  I mean, we're a year on that is actually not very long on these
• 36:50
  kinds of cases, right? Sometimes we see 3-4 years
• 36:53
  before we ever get to trial. I'm wondering what your thoughts
• 36:57
  are on if this will get to trial or not.
• 37:00
  I mean, statistically it doesn't.
• 37:04
  Sorry. You don't think so?
• 37:07
  I think it'll be a plea deal. I think you'll end up in a
• 37:10
  hospital. I think you'll get every benefit
• 37:15
  and every, you know, even though he killed a judge, he will.
• 37:24
  I think he will get every benefit and every, you know,
• 37:31
  opportunity he'll get. He'll be given every favor he
• 37:34
  possibly can, I think. Well, I imagine that he would be
• 37:39
  happy to take a deal like that and to not go to prison and
• 37:42
  instead go into some sort of hospital, some sort of care
• 37:46
  facility, because it would not be good for him in prison.
• 37:51
  I think he'll get special treatment.
• 37:54
  Yeah, you think it's deserving? No, yeah.
• 38:01
  I, I've wondered about this and I've struggled with it because
• 38:03
  if Kevin Mullins was doing the things that he that people are
• 38:07
  saying he did, people like Sabrina Adkins and Jennifer Hill
• 38:12
  and Ty Adams, if he was doing those things, he certainly
• 38:16
  didn't deserve to be gunned down in his, in his chamber.
• 38:21
  But also, I mean, I think a lot of, I think a jury would
• 38:26
  understand somebody taking that responsibility to end that.
• 38:34
  And I also want to make sure that it's understood that we
• 38:39
  were, that when I'm hearing this from people in the community,
• 38:43
  they're not talking about people like Sabrina.
• 38:46
  They're not talking or well, not people like they're not talking
• 38:49
  about Sabrina. They're not talking about
• 38:53
  Jennifer Hill. They were in house arrest under
• 38:59
  Ben Fields and they were, I mean, that was wrong.
• 39:03
  You know, that was criminal. What they what they were doing
• 39:06
  there was criminal. You know, if offering these
• 39:12
  favors, these trade for sex and then, you know, they turn them
• 39:16
  down, what we're going to put you in jail.
• 39:18
  That's different than what people are seeing with
• 39:22
  prostitution services. You know, that's, it's different
• 39:27
  than for what I'm, what I'm hearing from the people in the
• 39:31
  community. They're not talking about
• 39:33
  Sabrina Atkins. They're not talking about those
• 39:37
  situations with victims. What they're talking about is,
• 39:41
  is women who traded ABJ with the judge for money.
• 39:47
  You know, if he paid you for your services, you know, they
• 39:54
  were not talking about Sabrina. So I just want to make sure that
• 39:57
  that is clear. Are you hearing that from
• 40:00
  multiple people, multiple women? Not just yes, yeah.
• 40:06
  And it's not men who are telling me this.
• 40:09
  This is coming from women. The girl's mother that I spoke
• 40:13
  to, I didn't just talk to her today.
• 40:16
  I've been talking. You know, I've got all kinds of
• 40:18
  sources that I've been in contact with since this
• 40:20
  happened, since the shooting happened.
• 40:23
  And this girl's mother that I spoke to or that I've been
• 40:28
  speaking with on a continuous basis.
• 40:33
  That's one. That's what she said to me just
• 40:37
  today or yesterday. It might have been, but she
• 40:40
  said, you know, that's why my daughter will not come forward
• 40:45
  because she feels like she, you know, she was participating in
• 40:50
  this. You know, she was try even
• 40:54
  though, you know, like me and you might feel different about
• 40:57
  this, but this is what it was coming from the people in the
• 41:00
  community. So don't shoot the messenger
• 41:03
  here. Yeah, I hear you.
• 41:04
  But the like if, if somebody if somebody was engaged in
• 41:09
  prostitution and sex work and they're trading their service
• 41:13
  for money from the judge, are those kinds of people or are
• 41:18
  those not kinds of people, those people known to be working in
• 41:25
  that trade in in the community? Why, Yeah.
• 41:29
  OK. So, so they're not afraid to
• 41:32
  come out because because of that they're afraid to come out what,
• 41:36
  because they were engaged in illegal activity.
• 41:39
  I would imagine the statute of limitations is short.
• 41:42
  No, no, I think it's because of the, the, the shit that they
• 41:48
  would get from the people in the community.
• 41:52
  You know, nobody wants to be attached to any of this.
• 41:56
  I can tell you this has turned into a clown show.
• 42:01
  You know the judge, if the judge was participating in in
• 42:06
  prostitution services, you know that still is not like.
• 42:12
  It's illegal. Who would?
• 42:12
  Condone that, you know, that's a bribe.
• 42:16
  I mean, all that would really do.
• 42:18
  What about the men? Here's my thing.
• 42:21
  What about the women who were not offered that opportunity?
• 42:26
  Like they hated my guts. If I had went to jail, I would
• 42:30
  have had to have sat down there. Nobody would have offered me
• 42:33
  that opportunity. Not that I would have taken it.
• 42:35
  I'm just saying nobody was coming by saying, hey, you know,
• 42:39
  if you want to go out in the closet here, you can go home.
• 42:42
  Well, I wasn't given that that option.
• 42:46
  Who knows? I'm not.
• 42:48
  I would have taken it. I mean, I'm.
• 42:50
  Just saying. That's funny, I mean.
• 42:54
  You know, I'm just saying you can't have a judge that's doing
• 43:00
  those kinds of things. No, of course.
• 43:02
  Not fair to the people. You know that's not fair.
• 43:05
  Also illegal, and it's unjust. Proper.
• 43:09
  It's immoral. It's immoral, it's unethical.
• 43:12
  There's so many things. I just wonder, you know what,
• 43:15
  Elizabeth? You know what we need to do?
• 43:17
  We need to write a book. We could anonymize everybody.
• 43:21
  We could anonymize everybody and just write a book.
• 43:27
  Well, I've been, I've been start.
• 43:29
  I do. I'm on it.
• 43:31
  I'm right there with you, Gavin. I'm I agree 1000% and I'm in.
• 43:36
  I've already started with cartoon, with the hillbilly
• 43:40
  crime cartoon thing, and people get upset, but oh, it's not
• 43:46
  entertainment. Oh, you're making jokes.
• 43:49
  I mean, what are we supposed to do?
• 43:51
  You know, Appalachian lore is what the story, what you know,
• 43:57
  some of the best stories are based on.
• 44:01
  And you can't make this stuff up, the kind of things that
• 44:06
  we're talking about. And in all of this, you just
• 44:09
  can't make it up. It's comical.
• 44:12
  Real quick, a couple of comments.
• 44:16
  I'm going to let you get back to your basketball game.
• 44:18
  Royal Order of the Frank, which there are two members of the
• 44:22
  Royal Order of the Frank. There is Royal Order of the
• 44:24
  Frank in person. Then I am also, I don't know if
• 44:28
  you know this, Elizabeth, but I am also an inducted member of
• 44:31
  the Royal Order of the Frank. OK.
• 44:34
  I think, Taya, sorry, blinking on that.
• 44:36
  Yeah. Misunderstood what you said,
• 44:37
  like saying that the investigator wasn't a police
• 44:39
  officer, implied he wasn't legitimate.
• 44:41
  Maybe. Yeah.
• 44:43
  And you know what we can control, Elizabeth, you and I
• 44:48
  can control what we say, but we can't control what people think
• 44:51
  they hear or what they understand.
• 44:53
  Right. So second beach gal there.
• 44:59
  I, I love, I love handles on YouTube.
• 45:03
  Like what it what people come up with for handles.
• 45:05
  Second beach gal. What does that mean?
• 45:06
  I love it. That's great.
• 45:10
  She's one. Of our regulars.
• 45:11
  Is she awesome? Yeah, thanks for highlighting
• 45:15
  this case. And Elizabeth, you seem to
• 45:16
  challenge her to tame her, and you lose every time.
• 45:20
  Well, welcome to my life. I have got three daughters and a
• 45:24
  wife. So there you go.
• 45:29
  Idea delights, says Elizabeth. Keep doing what you do in your
• 45:33
  gutsy and getting to the truth. Some people might not want to
• 45:36
  hear it. That's why this stuff is
• 45:37
  happening. Love your Spitfire personality.
• 45:40
  Yes, I do too. Rocks and raccoons with Auntie
• 45:43
  Jan. I think she's one of your
• 45:44
  regulars too, right? I want to shout out the mods
• 45:48
  tonight. A lot happening in the chat,
• 45:50
  man. We've been, our mods have been
• 45:52
  getting mental workouts lately. They have been working hard.
• 45:57
  All right, I'm going to let you go and do my outro and
• 46:01
  everything like that. After you go, we normally do a
• 46:03
  postmortem, but I know that you got to get to that ball game.
• 46:06
  That's important. Thanks for spending some time
• 46:08
  with us tonight. Yeah, thanks for having me.
• 46:12
  All right, bye y'all. Next time we'll figure I next
• 46:14
  time I will ask, do you really mean Thursday or do you really
• 46:18
  mean Friday? That's my.
• 46:20
  Bad. All right, we'll see ya.
• 46:22
  Bye. All right, guys.
• 46:25
  Very special thanks to Elizabeth over at Hillbilly Crime.
• 46:28
  She is a Spitfire indeed. Tonight was a little bit of just
• 46:34
  kind of spilling the tea. But let's go through a couple of
• 46:38
  your comments and questions here before we call it a night.
• 46:43
  What do we got from RJG Gavin? If anything, I would think
• 46:46
  Mickey's defense team would appreciate Elizabeth.
• 46:48
  I do too. I do too.
• 46:51
  I I think that and it's not like I watch every single one of her
• 46:57
  videos, but I've watched enough and I think that she's been
• 47:00
  pretty darn fair, especially and I think she's been I think she's
• 47:06
  actually been what what am I trying to complimentary of
• 47:10
  Mickey several times Tammy says is Elizabeth talking about Taya.
• 47:16
  She says was at parties. I don't know.
• 47:18
  The young 18 year old is going through a lot.
• 47:21
  Yeah, yeah, Lila is going through a lot right now.
• 47:24
  There is we do need to kind of extend that grace that we extend
• 47:27
  the same grace to Elizabeth for feeling the way she did or she
• 47:31
  does. Elizabeth never said anything
• 47:32
  about her. Elizabeth and Gavin telling the
• 47:35
  news. That's that's what we do.
• 47:36
  The that's what we try to do anyway.
• 47:40
  So yeah, I, I am kind of with Elizabeth.
• 47:43
  I do think this case is probably going to end in a plea bargain.
• 47:46
  98 point something percent tend to go that way.
• 47:52
  I do remember talking with Ned Pillarsdorf once and he was
• 47:56
  like, if I were, if I were Mickey, I would not take a deal.
• 48:00
  I would fight it because I'm looking at, you know, if you're
• 48:03
  convicted. No, no, no.
• 48:05
  I think he was saying I would take a plea deal, that I think
• 48:08
  that's what he was saying, because if you're convicted, you
• 48:10
  got to serve 80% of that. So, yeah, could be, could be.
• 48:17
  Mel Stiller says hire me to write that book.
• 48:20
  I'm Canadian and have no dog in the fight, Mel.
• 48:24
  If I only had money. But if you are a writer, if you
• 48:28
  are a writer and you want to exercise those writing muscles,
• 48:33
  do you guys know how many of you know about crime COD on my
• 48:37
  website? Let me let me go over here real
• 48:39
  quick. I'm going to show you.
• 48:40
  I'm going to show you this right here, OK?
• 48:45
  This is gavinfish.com. On gavinfish.com you can click
• 48:49
  on Crime COD or I, I think I showed the latest 12 or so
• 48:53
  articles from Crime COD. You can click through them.
• 48:56
  Crime COD is a true crime website and it's just a news
• 49:00
  website. Very, very straightforward.
• 49:03
  I've got 2 writers, Jake and Kate that are writing for me.
• 49:09
  If you would like to exercise your journalistic muscles, Prime
• 49:15
  card is a good place to do that. We, it's all volunteer.
• 49:18
  It's all volunteer. I'm sorry, I'm, I'm broke.
• 49:20
  I can't, I can't pay anybody. But if, if you are a good
• 49:25
  writer, reach out and the best way to reach out is to go to my
• 49:31
  website and click on this little icon right there that will take
• 49:35
  you to a contact form and you can send me all your
• 49:41
  information. I will put you in touch with
• 49:43
  Jake, my editor. So just want to put that out
• 49:46
  there. Donna Wilder says we love
• 49:50
  hillbilly crime. She is the best.
• 49:52
  She is the best. And thank you for that super
• 49:55
  chat. RJGI.
• 49:56
  Wonder if Lila really wants to reach out to Elizabeth.
• 49:59
  If she wanted to confirm Elizabeth, she would have done
• 50:01
  that at the ball game. Yeah, I I kind of feel that way,
• 50:04
  too. Kind of feel that way.
• 50:06
  This is funny. Gavin.
• 50:07
  Reminds me of the teacher I'm finding Nemo.
• 50:14
  That's funny. That's cute.
• 50:18
  RJG also says I guarantee that Cease and Desist was created by
• 50:22
  one of the women offended by Elizabeth.
• 50:24
  I'd find out who sent the picture to Elizabeth.
• 50:27
  That's funny. Gavin, did you get my e-mail
• 50:32
  about the actual order that one of my ancestors belonged to?
• 50:34
  I did. I did.
• 50:35
  Royal Order of the Frank. I think we should just call you
• 50:39
  Ruth. I don't know Royal order.
• 50:43
  I did and it was fascinating. Thanks for sending me that that
• 50:49
  anyone want to know what Ned looks like?
• 50:50
  He gave an interview on YouTube. I don't remember the channel,
• 50:53
  sorry. I remember the channel.
• 50:56
  It was this channel. I had him on here and if you
• 51:01
  let's see, I can probably find that for you.
• 51:03
  Give me a second. Let me bring it up here.
• 51:12
  Ned Pillarsdorf. Yeah.
• 51:17
  So if you go to my channel and just search Ned Pillarsdorf,
• 51:23
  this is the interview that I did with Ned.
• 51:26
  That was nine months ago. And it was a fascinating,
• 51:31
  fascinating conversation. He has this whole idea that it
• 51:34
  was the defense is going or was going to be a time to kill
• 51:39
  defense. This is what Mr. Pillar's dwarf
• 51:41
  looks like now. He is running for Congress, I
• 51:43
  believe. And yeah, he's on.
• 51:46
  He's on the campaign trail faux show.
• 51:51
  OK, we're going to call it. It's not a not a very long one
• 51:55
  time. Well, no, no, no.
• 51:57
  We're 51 minutes. That's long enough.
• 51:58
  Long enough, Gavin. Long enough.
• 52:01
  Tomorrow is going to be our Friday roundup.
• 52:06
  We're going to be looking just back at all the cases that we
• 52:09
  talked about this week. That includes Mickey, Mickey
• 52:13
  Stein, Slash, Kevin Mullins. That includes Jake Harrow.
• 52:18
  That includes Melody. Why am I blanking Melody?
• 52:26
  It includes Barry Morphew. It includes Kata Scott.
• 52:30
  It includes, yeah, Melody Buzzard.
• 52:34
  Yeah, we've got a lot to go over.
• 52:36
  We will just be doing a roundup tomorrow, so that will happen at
• 52:39
  7:30 PM Eastern Time as usual. See if there's anything else you
• 52:45
  guys want me to see before we go.
• 52:46
  Going once, going twice. Guys talking about Finding Nemo.
• 52:53
  Money isn't everything, Gavin. I agree, money isn't everything.
• 52:58
  In fact, on my list of things that is, that is most important
• 53:03
  to me, it doesn't. It's not anywhere near the top.
• 53:07
  It's it's necessary. But yeah, I hear you.
• 53:10
  I hear you OK with that, I bid you.
• 53:12
  I do. Thank you very much for being
• 53:13
  here. I will see you tomorrow night,
• 53:14
  7:30 PM Eastern for the Friday roundup.
• 53:17
  Take care. Thank you very much for watching
• 53:19
  this video. If you liked what you saw,
• 53:21
  please consider subscribing and if you have any questions or
• 53:25
  comments, please leave them below.