Latest / Hurdle with Emily Abbate / 356. Owning Your Narrative: How To Navigate Burnout & Adopt A Healthier Inner Dialogue With Liz Beecroft, LCSW

Transcript

356. Owning Your Narrative: How To Navigate Burnout & Adopt A Healthier Inner Dialogue With Liz Beecroft, LCSW · Hurdle with Emily Abbate

0:00
Speaker 1: We're all first time humans. We are going to learn,
0:04
Speaker 1: We're going to change our minds. We're never on a
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Speaker 1: straight shot. Anywhere we take one step in any direction,
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Speaker 1: we're either going to keep going in that direction because
0:12
Speaker 1: we're going to realize if we're doing things right, or
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Speaker 1: we're going to learn from it and that's going to
0:16
Speaker 1: help us go in a different direction.
0:32
Speaker 2: What's happened in everyone? EMILYA Badi.
0:34
Speaker 1: Here.
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Speaker 3: You are listening to episode three hundred and fifty six,
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Speaker 3: A Hurdle, a whileless focused podcast where I talk to
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Speaker 3: inspirational people about everything from their highest hies and toughest.
0:44
Speaker 2: Moments to essential tips on.
0:46
Speaker 3: How to live a healthier, happier, more motivated life. We
0:50
Speaker 3: all go through our fair share of hurdles. My goal
0:53
Speaker 3: through these discussions is to empower you to better navigate
0:56
Speaker 3: yours and move with intention so that you can stride
0:59
Speaker 3: to your own big potential and of course have some
1:03
Speaker 3: fun along the way. For today's conversation, I am bringing
1:08
Speaker 3: in my buddy, Liz Beatcroft. She's a licensed clitical social
1:14
Speaker 3: worker and she specializes working in athlete and high performer
1:19
Speaker 3: mental health. This is Liz's second appearance on the show.
1:23
Speaker 3: I'll link her first episode in the show notes, when
1:25
Speaker 3: we spoke about how to make a five year plan
1:28
Speaker 3: and beat overwhelm, and today she's back talking about mental
1:32
Speaker 3: strategies to show up as your most authentic self, among
1:38
Speaker 3: many other things. We get into everything from how to
1:41
Speaker 3: own your know and navigate overwhelm, to speaking of overwhelm,
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Speaker 3: how to navigate a burnout, and the importance of speaking
1:50
Speaker 3: to others about what it is that you are going through.
1:53
Speaker 3: Maybe that's a therapist, maybe that's a life coach, maybe
1:56
Speaker 3: it's a friend. And we talk about the benefits of
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Speaker 3: speaking to all of those individuals in our conversation today.
2:02
Speaker 2: But whatever it is that.
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Speaker 3: You're going through, knowing that not only are you not
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Speaker 3: alone in how you feel, but there is always going
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Speaker 3: to be someone to help you hold it down now,
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Speaker 3: as Liz and I talk about in today's episode, she also,
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Speaker 3: aside from being a licensed clinical social worker, is obsessed
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Speaker 3: with sneaker culture. We have that in common and a
2:23
Speaker 3: Disney adult, which I learn a few things about.
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Speaker 2: In today's episode.
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Speaker 3: She also owns her own private practice and you can
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Speaker 3: learn more about that, plus so many amazing tips about
2:36
Speaker 3: how to take care of your own mental health and
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Speaker 3: wellbeing over on social that is called mental SASH MEANTL
2:44
Speaker 3: dot s E s H. Make sure you're following along
2:48
Speaker 3: with Hurdle over on the socials, it's at Hurdle Podcast.
2:51
Speaker 3: I am over at Emily a body and on the
2:54
Speaker 3: subject of mental health. I've been talking up the Blue
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Speaker 3: Gen Mile from a six all month along and today
3:00
Speaker 3: is no exception for those of you who are out
3:03
Speaker 3: at the loop. In twenty twenty, a six athlete Johnny
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Speaker 3: Gregork ran the Blue Gen Mile to support and raise
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Speaker 3: funds for mental health awareness and our nervous late brother.
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Speaker 3: Five years and thousands of miles run in blue jeans later,
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Speaker 3: we are back for more miles, more awareness, and more donations.
3:20
Speaker 3: This may put on your favorite pair of blue jeans
3:22
Speaker 3: and join us for the fifth annual ASEX.
3:24
Speaker 2: Blue Gene Mile.
3:26
Speaker 3: Each mile is a step toward awareness and funds for
3:29
Speaker 3: mental health.
3:30
Speaker 2: You can learn more at asex dot com.
3:33
Speaker 3: One last bit of housekeeping here, the Weekly Hurdle newsletter
3:36
Speaker 3: is getting a lot of traction over on substack. And
3:39
Speaker 3: I know I say this all the time in the intro,
3:41
Speaker 3: but that is the place where I am constantly answering
3:45
Speaker 3: my most frequently asked questions, so make sure that you're subscribed.
3:50
Speaker 2: The link to do.
3:51
Speaker 3: That comes out every single Friday is in the show notes.
3:54
Speaker 2: With that, let's get to it. Let's get to hurdling today.
4:10
Speaker 3: I am sitting down with Liz Beecroft. She's a psychotherapist
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Speaker 3: and the founder of Mental SASH.
4:17
Speaker 2: Liz. Welcome to Hurdle.
4:19
Speaker 1: Hi, thank you for having me. Nice, it's been a minute.
4:23
Speaker 1: I mean I was on Hurdle years and years ago.
4:26
Speaker 1: I think in like the earlier stages perhaps, and now
4:30
Speaker 1: we're back about me.
4:32
Speaker 3: I am honored that we're back. I am so happy
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Speaker 3: to see you. And before we talk about anything today,
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Speaker 3: I want to know what's on feet.
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Speaker 2: What sneakers are we wearing today?
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Speaker 1: Oh my god, I'm actually wearing bone Bus slippers. There's
4:45
Speaker 1: a very no shoes in the house household. But lately
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Speaker 1: what I've been wearing as far as footwear goes, I've
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Speaker 1: been a really heavy Adidas girl lately. So like a
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Speaker 1: lot of the Adidas sl seventy two's, the Ultra boot posts.
5:00
Speaker 1: Trying to think what else, A lot of A six
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Speaker 1: are kind of heavy in my rotation these days. So
5:05
Speaker 1: that's where we're at.
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Speaker 2: That's where we're at, Liz is a sneaker icon?
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Speaker 3: Was there like an initial thing that sparked your personal
5:11
Speaker 3: love for lifestyle sneakers because I know you have a
5:14
Speaker 3: background as an athlete, but lifestyle and performance are two
5:18
Speaker 3: completely different worlds.
5:20
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, one hundred percent. I think growing up the
5:22
Speaker 1: sports I played for basketball, softball, and soccer, So basketball
5:25
Speaker 1: is what got me into sneakers. But then, you know,
5:28
Speaker 1: as I matured and started finding more of my personal style,
5:32
Speaker 1: I think it really came down to just like I
5:35
Speaker 1: can't wear a chunky basketball sneaker out and get a
5:38
Speaker 1: fit off as easily and discomfort wise, Like I also
5:42
Speaker 1: am a big Disney adult, so you know, you need
5:44
Speaker 1: a good pair of lifestyle sneakers to stomp around the
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Speaker 1: parks and if you're hitting thirty k steps a day.
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Speaker 1: So that's really kind of what got me into more
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Speaker 1: of a lifestyle sneaker.
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Speaker 2: I love the phrase I'm also a big Disney adult.
5:57
Speaker 1: I am. I have my Jimney Crickett behind me and
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Speaker 1: on like I am going to Disney on Friday, I'm
6:03
Speaker 1: flying down to Orlando.
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Speaker 2: So she's a Disney girl. Ade did you grow up
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Speaker 2: going to the parks as well.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, my parents, I'm an only child, and that was
6:10
Speaker 1: kind of like our vacation every year we would go
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Speaker 1: to Disney World. I love it. I just have a
6:15
Speaker 1: lot of really good memories there. And I'm also really
6:18
Speaker 1: interested in their attention to detail. They blow me away
6:22
Speaker 1: with like how they make like the magic happen. Especially
6:25
Speaker 1: in the parks. There's a really cool tour called the
6:27
Speaker 1: Keys to the Kingdom Tour, and they actually take you
6:30
Speaker 1: in the underground tunnels and you get to see like
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Speaker 1: how they do everything behind the scenes, which I'm completely
6:35
Speaker 1: fascinated by. So yeah, I love that kind of stuff.
6:38
Speaker 2: Love that kind of stuff.
6:39
Speaker 3: You mentioned up having a background in sports yourself, playing
6:43
Speaker 3: an athlete in multiple different sports. When you were coming
6:47
Speaker 3: up within sport, did you have access to anyone who
6:50
Speaker 3: has the same sort of skill set that you have today.
6:53
Speaker 1: No, Honestly, that's really what got me into the field
6:57
Speaker 1: I'm in today is because growing up I struggled majorly
7:00
Speaker 1: with anxiety. And I'm also from a really small town
7:04
Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania called Frackville, Pennsylvania, which is very heavily like
7:08
Speaker 1: the Coal region. Sports are kind of a religion there.
7:11
Speaker 1: And it's very much just like suck up, suck it
7:13
Speaker 1: up mentality, like no, don't show emotion, be tough, you know,
7:17
Speaker 1: push through it. And if you know, emotions were ever
7:20
Speaker 1: a thing, people really like shy away from having those
7:23
Speaker 1: conversations and you know, call you a lot of profanities
7:26
Speaker 1: if you show emotions. So no, it was not a
7:29
Speaker 1: part of my experience as an athlete growing up. And
7:32
Speaker 1: you know, I've had toxic coaches. I've had you know,
7:34
Speaker 1: teammates who just like didn't understand. And I would go
7:37
Speaker 1: to sleep away basketball camps and I can still remember
7:40
Speaker 1: like having incredibly terrible panic attacks and so much so
7:45
Speaker 1: my parents would have to get a hotel nearby wherever
7:47
Speaker 1: we would be, and basically my mom would give me
7:50
Speaker 1: Benadryl every night just to kind of like zonk me
7:52
Speaker 1: and help me fall asleep and sleep through the night.
7:55
Speaker 1: But like I would be just sobbing and crying and
7:58
Speaker 1: just completely struggling with separation anxiety, and my teammates would
8:03
Speaker 1: all kind of look at me like I was had
8:05
Speaker 1: something wrong with me, and no one really knew how
8:08
Speaker 1: to intervene or step in, and especially coaches that kind
8:10
Speaker 1: of like you know, made me feel like it was
8:12
Speaker 1: a problem rather than like offering to support or figure
8:15
Speaker 1: out like a solution. So yeah, that's really what got
8:19
Speaker 1: me into where I'm at now.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, And how did all of that make you feel
8:23
Speaker 3: in the moment? Clearly feeling a little bit isolated, having
8:26
Speaker 3: all of these feelings everyone looking at you like you
8:28
Speaker 3: are other. Do you remember or recall how that manifested
8:32
Speaker 3: and how that affected your gameplay as well?
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Speaker 1: I noticed a huge shift when I got to college
8:37
Speaker 1: and when I actually had to live away from home,
8:40
Speaker 1: and that dynamic of like figuring out you know, young adulthood,
8:44
Speaker 1: navigating like life more so as an independent person and
8:47
Speaker 1: playing a sport was really a hard transition, so much
8:51
Speaker 1: so that it like really messed with me as an athlete,
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Speaker 1: especially in softball. I was like a very very good
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Speaker 1: softball player and had like over a five hundred batting
9:01
Speaker 1: average in high school, was like player of the year
9:04
Speaker 1: two years running and like the local media, And then
9:09
Speaker 1: going into college like struggled with the transition of like,
9:12
Speaker 1: you know, being around other athletes that are also all
9:15
Speaker 1: really good and having like, you know, a bit of
9:16
Speaker 1: like an ego from high school, and then also struggling
9:21
Speaker 1: with like not having my family or my like close
9:24
Speaker 1: support system nearby when I needed them, so that it
9:28
Speaker 1: affected me so much so that I would my batting
9:32
Speaker 1: average went down. My hitting like I just got into
9:34
Speaker 1: this horrible slump where I would overthink everything to the
9:37
Speaker 1: point where I was like over analyzing. I was actually
9:41
Speaker 1: trying to perform the best I could, but in doing so,
9:44
Speaker 1: I was I was overdoing it. I wasn't just like
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Speaker 1: living and being in the moment and showing up and
9:50
Speaker 1: doing what I knew how to do. I was almost
9:53
Speaker 1: hyper aware and hyper focused so much so that it
9:56
Speaker 1: was detrimental to my performance.
9:58
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's something that's so relatable whether we're talking
10:01
Speaker 3: about sports, so we're just talking about life. Right When
10:04
Speaker 3: anxiety kicks in, it can really mess with your ability
10:07
Speaker 3: to be where your feed are, using your expertise that
10:11
Speaker 3: you have. Now, when someone comes to you and they
10:14
Speaker 3: share a similar sentiment, where do you even begin on
10:17
Speaker 3: helping them get to a place where they feel like
10:19
Speaker 3: they can be more present in their situation.
10:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think first it's really taking the approach of
10:25
Speaker 1: like identifying like that you're a human. You know, we
10:27
Speaker 1: all have emotions, We all struggle and first really nailing
10:31
Speaker 1: in the fact that like our self worth and our
10:34
Speaker 1: identity is tied to so much more outside of our sport,
10:37
Speaker 1: and that we are not defined by our wins, our titles,
10:41
Speaker 1: you know, our championships that you know, sport often tells
10:44
Speaker 1: us we are and really helping people develop that awareness,
10:48
Speaker 1: and I think once we're able to kind of develop that,
10:50
Speaker 1: then we can really kind of hone in on what
10:52
Speaker 1: our specific goals look like. And is there you know
10:55
Speaker 1: that cross pollination of like stress from the outside world
10:58
Speaker 1: and just life in general impact your performance as an athlete,
11:01
Speaker 1: or is it, you know, something more on the mental
11:05
Speaker 1: performance side of things. So that's kind of like deciphering
11:07
Speaker 1: really where we start and then figuring out goals and
11:10
Speaker 1: strategies from there.
11:12
Speaker 3: It sounds like it could be simple, but also in practice,
11:16
Speaker 3: I feel as though it would be extremely difficult for
11:19
Speaker 3: those that are really heavily immersed in all of these feelings.
11:23
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really hard to just even identify our emotions, right,
11:27
Speaker 1: because when you're an athlete, sometimes your emotions are what
11:32
Speaker 1: motivate you, are what propel you forward. You have to
11:34
Speaker 1: kind of lean in on those strong emotions especially like
11:38
Speaker 1: I don't imagine running, I'm by no means a runner.
11:41
Speaker 1: But like when you get that jolt of energy or
11:45
Speaker 1: you know that intense feelings that you're feeling, you can
11:47
Speaker 1: channel them in ways that help your performance. But also
11:51
Speaker 1: being able to kind of slow down and identify what
11:53
Speaker 1: those emotions are is incredibly important. And knowing like is
11:56
Speaker 1: this emotion helpful in my performance or is this something
11:59
Speaker 1: that is damaging or harmful.
12:02
Speaker 2: Something that I think is really useful.
12:03
Speaker 3: Also is when you can identify an emotion or a
12:06
Speaker 3: feeling and recognize that it can coexist and.
12:08
Speaker 2: Be an and both situation. Right.
12:11
Speaker 3: So, when we talk, for instance, about perhaps like the
12:14
Speaker 3: fear or anxiety that come hand in hand with showing
12:17
Speaker 3: up to do whatever your given sport is, whether it's
12:19
Speaker 3: weightlifting or kettlebells, are running or softball or dancing or
12:23
Speaker 3: insert sport name here, you can experience that feeling of
12:26
Speaker 3: fear and anxiety, and you can recognize that you are
12:29
Speaker 3: excited or you can be affirmed in the fact that
12:32
Speaker 3: you are good at this particular modality, right, And so
12:35
Speaker 3: that place of and both can be a really challenging
12:39
Speaker 3: thing to come to terms with that it can be
12:42
Speaker 3: multiple feelings at once.
12:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, one hundred percent. I often actually pull up the
12:47
Speaker 1: Yerks Dodson law. I don't know if you've ever seen
12:49
Speaker 1: the curve, but it talks about how anxiety is a
12:51
Speaker 1: necessary part of performance in any scope of performance, whether
12:54
Speaker 1: it's work, career, sport, you name it. But you need
12:57
Speaker 1: to have some level of anxiety to help you perform
13:01
Speaker 1: because anxiety does help keep us safe to some degree.
13:04
Speaker 1: It helps keep us, you know, prepared, focused, driven in
13:09
Speaker 1: some cases. But you have to find that sweet spot
13:11
Speaker 1: of where having the right amount of anxiety is helpful
13:15
Speaker 1: versus having not enough anxiety where you're maybe overly confident
13:19
Speaker 1: or not as passionate about it, or too much anxiety
13:23
Speaker 1: then it becomes harmful.
13:24
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like that phrase that we hear so often,
13:27
Speaker 3: like when you worry just shows that you care.
13:30
Speaker 1: Yeah.
13:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's challenging. It's challenging to come to terms with.
13:33
Speaker 3: So for you, as you mentioned, all of these feelings
13:36
Speaker 3: really impacted the way that you showed up with in sport,
13:39
Speaker 3: and you gave some examples of how that was for
13:41
Speaker 3: the worst. How did you cope with that and eventually
13:44
Speaker 3: move through those feelings to get a little bit less
13:46
Speaker 3: in your own way.
13:48
Speaker 1: It took me years. I mean, my parents had me
13:51
Speaker 1: in therapy when I was young for the homesickness part
13:54
Speaker 1: of it, but it never really translated into talking about
13:57
Speaker 1: how it showed up in sport for me. So it
14:00
Speaker 1: me probably until after college to really kind of have
14:05
Speaker 1: that realization of how the anxiety was showing up in
14:08
Speaker 1: other areas of my life. Because academically I did really well,
14:11
Speaker 1: I did okay socially. I was an only child and
14:14
Speaker 1: my parents had me and a lot of social activities,
14:15
Speaker 1: which was great. But at the same time I looked
14:20
Speaker 1: like I was fitting in. But I think at times
14:21
Speaker 1: I was also masking a lot. And I am, you know,
14:24
Speaker 1: relatively high functioning when it comes to managing my anxiety
14:29
Speaker 1: and at times depression, and so I'm a good camouflager.
14:32
Speaker 1: I can blend in when I need to, but it
14:35
Speaker 1: was also really important to understand how that's not always
14:38
Speaker 1: the most helpful, and so having a lot of realizations
14:41
Speaker 1: after college. And I think also just as an adult,
14:44
Speaker 1: we grow up, we have more life experience, We're able
14:47
Speaker 1: to understand certain concepts and our own values and beliefs
14:50
Speaker 1: kind of start getting challenged, and a lot of that
14:52
Speaker 1: stuff definitely played a part in it too. But yeah,
14:55
Speaker 1: I was really just working with a therapist as an
14:58
Speaker 1: adult after when I was in grad school actually for
15:01
Speaker 1: social work and really just trying to understand like my
15:05
Speaker 1: place in the world. And after college, the adjustment of
15:08
Speaker 1: like not really having sport in my life anymore was
15:11
Speaker 1: showing up because it still was a part of me,
15:14
Speaker 1: but it also still impacted me after like I've retired.
15:18
Speaker 1: You know, from being an athlete.
15:20
Speaker 3: You use that term camouflaging, and it's something that I
15:24
Speaker 3: can certainly relate to when you feel as though you
15:28
Speaker 3: should be acting a certain way to manage, cope with,
15:33
Speaker 3: get through a certain situation. For someone who is listening
15:37
Speaker 3: that that concept really resonates with them as well, what
15:42
Speaker 3: tips or tricks do you have to get away from
15:46
Speaker 3: doing that? I feel like there are so many benefits,
15:49
Speaker 3: and please correct me if I'm wrong, but there are
15:51
Speaker 3: perks to feeling those feelings and working through them rather
15:55
Speaker 3: than putting them on the back burner. But with that said,
15:57
Speaker 3: there also could be a time and place for a
16:00
Speaker 3: allowing yourself to kind of indulge in that camouflage situation.
16:03
Speaker 1: Yeah, one hundred percent, And what I would say is
16:06
Speaker 1: really focusing on the awareness piece, like having those daily
16:10
Speaker 1: check ins with yourself, whether you're doing that through journaling.
16:13
Speaker 1: I'm a huge proponent of the app called how We Feel,
16:17
Speaker 1: and I recommend this to clients all the time, especially
16:19
Speaker 1: a lot of my clients because they're on the go
16:21
Speaker 1: and they don't have time to really be like journaling
16:23
Speaker 1: and write anything's down. But it's a really cool app.
16:25
Speaker 1: It's free and you can actually add friends on it,
16:28
Speaker 1: so it's a great way to also kind of like
16:29
Speaker 1: communicate your feelings and emotions with your friends. But essentially
16:32
Speaker 1: it's like a big feelings wheel and you just kind
16:35
Speaker 1: of scroll through, you pick the emotion you're feeling, and
16:37
Speaker 1: then it'll kind of prompt you to like type in
16:40
Speaker 1: like what are you doing, who are you with? And
16:42
Speaker 1: over time it kind of tracks like a chart to
16:44
Speaker 1: see like are there patterns in your emotions based on
16:47
Speaker 1: what you're doing, where you're at, who you're with. And
16:49
Speaker 1: I love that because it really forces you to slow down,
16:52
Speaker 1: check in with yourself and how you're feeling, and being
16:55
Speaker 1: able to gauge like how much battery do I have
16:58
Speaker 1: left in my tank right now, you know, because when
17:00
Speaker 1: we are camouflaging and masking, it is incredibly draining for
17:05
Speaker 1: us emotionally, and that can lead to a lot of
17:07
Speaker 1: other things like burnout or even at times perpetuate avoidance,
17:12
Speaker 1: which exacerbates the anxiety. And so by slowing down and
17:15
Speaker 1: checking in, it gives ourselves the ability to say like, Okay,
17:18
Speaker 1: I can do this right now, I can get through this,
17:20
Speaker 1: I have enough energy to maintain or no, I really
17:23
Speaker 1: need to like slow down and rest and recharge, and
17:26
Speaker 1: it's okay, you know, for me to tell my friends
17:28
Speaker 1: or who I'm with that, like, hey, I'm not going
17:30
Speaker 1: to be one hundred percent today because this is what
17:32
Speaker 1: I'm going through. So I think it's the awareness and
17:34
Speaker 1: then also if we are pulling back a little bit
17:37
Speaker 1: and you know, just leaning into how we're actually feeling
17:40
Speaker 1: in that moment, the communication piece of it and like
17:43
Speaker 1: sharing with friends, family, whoever, to let people know that, like,
17:46
Speaker 1: this is what my current state looks like.
17:49
Speaker 3: You said the burnout buzzword, and I'd be remiss if
17:51
Speaker 3: we didn't touch on burnout before moving forward now, because
17:55
Speaker 3: it is something that so many people really resonate with.
17:59
Speaker 3: For someone that that may be experiencing burnout, but hasn't
18:02
Speaker 3: necessarily identified it as such. What are some of the classic,
18:07
Speaker 3: let's say symptoms or how does that typically present itself
18:11
Speaker 3: in a way that we can identify?
18:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, wow, this is a good one. There's I think
18:17
Speaker 1: I don't have a memorized but there's eleven or twelve
18:20
Speaker 1: stages to burn.
18:21
Speaker 2: Out oof.
18:23
Speaker 1: And I normally I normally have this on like a
18:25
Speaker 1: when I do internal workplace trainings, as is one of
18:28
Speaker 1: the slides that I'll like talk about and present on.
18:30
Speaker 1: And it's really a great way to if you know,
18:32
Speaker 1: anyone's listening and wants to google it by all means,
18:35
Speaker 1: but it's a good way to kind of check like
18:37
Speaker 1: the slow progression of what burnout looks like. And so
18:40
Speaker 1: it kind of starts with actually overperforming, right like, you're
18:44
Speaker 1: really motivated, you're really driven, you want to prove yourself,
18:47
Speaker 1: you want to make everyone around you happy. It could
18:49
Speaker 1: be some people pleasing behaviors, it could be it's a
18:52
Speaker 1: lot of setting yourself on fire to keep others warm,
18:55
Speaker 1: right Like you're putting everyone else before you in order
18:59
Speaker 1: to make, you know, show up in a certain way.
19:03
Speaker 1: But in doing that, we're not giving ourselves to rest
19:05
Speaker 1: and the recharging that we need, and that's what kind
19:09
Speaker 1: of starts the strikes the match for the burnout. And
19:11
Speaker 1: so then we either become overly exhausted, we might become depressed,
19:15
Speaker 1: we might start feeling resentment, we might actually start then
19:19
Speaker 1: slacking on our performance. And when we kind of overperform
19:22
Speaker 1: to prove ourselves in a way, that also then sets
19:25
Speaker 1: the bar and the standard of like what other people
19:28
Speaker 1: expect from us. And then so when we do reel
19:31
Speaker 1: back because we need to rest or a charge and
19:33
Speaker 1: start setting boundaries, that's also then where that like, well
19:35
Speaker 1: you're not performing the same way, you know, discussions type
19:39
Speaker 1: of like start to come up. So that's part of it.
19:43
Speaker 1: It's you know, maybe isolation or decrease in social activity,
19:47
Speaker 1: it's feeling just completely mentally and physically depleted. It can
19:53
Speaker 1: get to the point where you're feeling like clinically depressed,
19:57
Speaker 1: clinically anxious. Your relationship can start to become damaged because
20:01
Speaker 1: you start blaming people for things that are going wrong,
20:04
Speaker 1: not being able to take accountability, a lot of just
20:08
Speaker 1: like messiness. That doesn't feel good. It's not good for you,
20:11
Speaker 1: it's not good for anyone. Around around you as well,
20:14
Speaker 1: and so that's kind of the mumbo jumble of burnout.
20:18
Speaker 1: But there's a more clear eleven step phase that you
20:22
Speaker 1: can worry about. It.
20:23
Speaker 3: When you said setting yourself on fire to keep others warm,
20:27
Speaker 3: that hits me in my soul, like getting to a
20:30
Speaker 3: place where you want to be and have this desire
20:32
Speaker 3: to be so productive and not only the service of
20:35
Speaker 3: yourself but in the service of others, and in that act,
20:39
Speaker 3: it is not something that is attainable for long periods
20:42
Speaker 3: of time. We are not meant to be functioning at
20:45
Speaker 3: two hundred and twenty five percent.
20:47
Speaker 1: No, no, But it's also so common in high performers
20:51
Speaker 1: because we want to overachieve, we want to be the best,
20:56
Speaker 1: but we have to find the balance of being the
20:59
Speaker 1: best ourselves first, not necessarily showing that up that way
21:04
Speaker 1: for others.
21:04
Speaker 2: How do you find the balance, Liz.
21:06
Speaker 1: Awareness, resting boundaries. You know, I'm a huge, huge believer
21:12
Speaker 1: of like the mind body connection, right, Like our bodies
21:15
Speaker 1: typically will start to tell us first how we're feeling,
21:18
Speaker 1: before you know, we get there mentally, and so really
21:21
Speaker 1: just checking in with ourselves, doing body scans, meditations, anything
21:25
Speaker 1: that is considered rest or charging. We have to kind
21:28
Speaker 1: of pivot our mindset and think of that as being
21:31
Speaker 1: productive rather than lazy or wasteful or you know, not purposeful,
21:37
Speaker 1: because it is it actually is purposeful. It is productive.
21:41
Speaker 1: We need to slow ourselves down, We need to check
21:43
Speaker 1: in with ourselves because that's what gives us the insight
21:46
Speaker 1: into what we need to do next.
21:48
Speaker 3: When was the last time that you feel as though
21:51
Speaker 3: burnout really got you down bad?
21:55
Speaker 1: God, not too long ago, honest, like last week to
21:57
Speaker 1: be completely fair. Yeah, there was a period of time
21:59
Speaker 1: where like every weekend I had stuff going on. I
22:02
Speaker 1: was like traveling, work stuff. I've recently taken on more clients.
22:06
Speaker 1: I work with a lot of MLB athletes and MLB
22:09
Speaker 1: organizations and so right now the season kind of just
22:12
Speaker 1: recently kicking off, like things have been full speed ahead
22:16
Speaker 1: right now, and it's a lot. It's a lot. Like
22:19
Speaker 1: my schedule is not the most standard schedule, especially when
22:22
Speaker 1: you're working with athletes, like you're really working around their schedule,
22:26
Speaker 1: Like they're getting home at three am sometimes and that
22:28
Speaker 1: means like they have to be at the field the
22:30
Speaker 1: next day for one o'clock. You're getting up at seven
22:32
Speaker 1: am when they have the only time availity to meet
22:35
Speaker 1: for a session, or you're sometimes meeting at nine o'clock
22:37
Speaker 1: at night, ten o'clock at night and in hotel lobbies,
22:41
Speaker 1: you know, like in random places, and it's a lot
22:44
Speaker 1: And because of that, at least for me, I thrive
22:47
Speaker 1: really well when I have some semblance of structure. So
22:50
Speaker 1: I have to kind of always remind myself that, like,
22:52
Speaker 1: my career is never really going to be the same,
22:54
Speaker 1: it's never going to be fully structured, but like giving
22:57
Speaker 1: myself breaks, So I don't typically work on weekends unless
23:02
Speaker 1: I actutely have to. I don't, you know, knowing what
23:04
Speaker 1: like my boundaries are and really trying to respect those
23:08
Speaker 1: for myself as a form of self care.
23:10
Speaker 3: Yeah, I love that my boundaries are a form of
23:13
Speaker 3: self care. Someone here's I work with a lot of
23:16
Speaker 3: MLB athletes in addition to some of the other high
23:19
Speaker 3: performers that you interact with on the regular, and we
23:22
Speaker 3: want to know how, So when did you start working with.
23:27
Speaker 2: Athletes at that elite level?
23:30
Speaker 1: Probably about four years ago, three three four years ago,
23:34
Speaker 1: And it was a weird way that it came to be.
23:37
Speaker 1: I always wanted to work with athletes, but as a
23:39
Speaker 1: social worker that's not necessarily like the training that they offer.
23:44
Speaker 1: It's starting to become a thing now there is a
23:46
Speaker 1: lot of sports social work certification program we can do
23:50
Speaker 1: and it's starting to become more well known. But for
23:53
Speaker 1: so long, within the sports world or the industry of sports,
23:57
Speaker 1: there was always the mental performer as coaches, and they
24:02
Speaker 1: are kind of like the bread and butter of like
24:04
Speaker 1: when you think of mental health and sport. But now
24:06
Speaker 1: what's starting to happen is this discussion around the combination
24:11
Speaker 1: of a mental performance coach and a sports therapist. And
24:13
Speaker 1: that's where I've kind of fit in is as a
24:15
Speaker 1: sports therapist because I focus more on the holistic side
24:18
Speaker 1: of it, like your life outside of sport and your
24:20
Speaker 1: identity outside of sport, but how a lot of those
24:22
Speaker 1: stressors inevitably affect how you perform in your career as
24:26
Speaker 1: an athlete. And the performance coaches, they typically focus more
24:30
Speaker 1: on the mindset of the sport itself. You know, how
24:34
Speaker 1: you're staying focused, the visualization techniques, the mindfulness practices, a
24:38
Speaker 1: lot of the things that show up, you know, performance
24:41
Speaker 1: anxiety wise, and there's obviously overlap between both. But what's
24:46
Speaker 1: starting to happen now are conversations around like the benefits
24:49
Speaker 1: of having both in your corner, you know, as an athlete,
24:53
Speaker 1: because we need to, you know, view the athlete as
24:55
Speaker 1: a whole person, not just someone who steps on a
24:58
Speaker 1: quarter field. And so a couple of years ago, I started,
25:02
Speaker 1: you know, posting online doing a lot of the influencer
25:05
Speaker 1: type work. I don't even know what, I would call it, content, creator, whatever,
25:08
Speaker 1: and that kind of opened some doors within sports where
25:13
Speaker 1: sneaker brands, which you know, led to me having opportunities
25:17
Speaker 1: to work with different athletes from a creator standpoint. Through
25:20
Speaker 1: that led to meeting with you know, just having connections
25:23
Speaker 1: with different agents, different athletes themselves. And now fast forward
25:27
Speaker 1: to where I'm at today. I'm you know, have a
25:30
Speaker 1: lot of mentors that are performance coaches that you know,
25:33
Speaker 1: really do look out for me, and so I'm in
25:35
Speaker 1: a lot of the referral networks now with the team.
25:37
Speaker 1: I don't want to ever work directly with the team
25:40
Speaker 1: because that is an incredibly busy, pectic job to have.
25:47
Speaker 1: I respect those people so so much, but I'm kind
25:51
Speaker 1: of like an outside source that if you know, they
25:53
Speaker 1: have someone who's struggling. Here's Liz let's you know, start
25:57
Speaker 1: meeting for therapy and that's.
25:58
Speaker 3: Where I'm at, So you would want to be the
26:01
Speaker 3: Phillies on team therapist.
26:05
Speaker 1: No. I Actually Dina Noblaza, who is the head of
26:08
Speaker 1: mental health at the Phillies, is one of my mentors
26:10
Speaker 1: and I adore her. She is like the best woman ever.
26:14
Speaker 1: But no, I tell her that. I actually just saw
26:16
Speaker 1: her last week. I was like, I would never want
26:18
Speaker 1: your job. I love that you're doing this and you're
26:20
Speaker 1: great at it, and she truly is so talented and
26:25
Speaker 1: great at what she's doing. But no, I don't think
26:28
Speaker 1: I could do that.
26:29
Speaker 3: It's always good to have those people that you can
26:32
Speaker 3: lean on and look to you for advice in that
26:34
Speaker 3: mentorship and just for some context here, Liz is also,
26:37
Speaker 3: in addition to being a Disney adult, a massive Phillies fan.
26:41
Speaker 1: Oh yes, die hard. And it's funny because like some
26:44
Speaker 1: of the teams I work with, I'm in the referral
26:47
Speaker 1: network as well with the Mets, and so there's a
26:49
Speaker 1: lot of just jokes that are often had, Like I
26:52
Speaker 1: like sometimes I'll wear my Phillies hats and I always
26:54
Speaker 1: have a backup hat in my office, so if I'm
26:56
Speaker 1: on a session I like quickly will change before so
26:59
Speaker 1: that I'm not you know, respecting or you know, doing anything.
27:02
Speaker 2: There backup hat I'm dead.
27:04
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh my god, I love it.
27:07
Speaker 1: Well.
27:07
Speaker 3: I think it's good again that you have like a
27:09
Speaker 3: firm grasp on what it is that does excite and
27:12
Speaker 3: inspire you, right, and that way you can navigate and
27:15
Speaker 3: move and shake in a way that feels really authentic
27:18
Speaker 3: to who it is that you are.
27:19
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's great, and it's tough to as a woman,
27:22
Speaker 1: I think because we're I'm at that point in my
27:24
Speaker 1: life we're trying to think about like maybe do we
27:26
Speaker 1: want to have kids, like, you know, what does that
27:28
Speaker 1: look like? And I still don't know that answer. But
27:32
Speaker 1: you know, if I had a career like that where
27:34
Speaker 1: I was traveling every other day to different cities, like
27:38
Speaker 1: having the craziest hours, would be almost impossible to even
27:41
Speaker 1: think about. So yeah, yeah, that's another I think reality
27:46
Speaker 1: of being a woman in sport.
27:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, one hundred percent.
27:50
Speaker 3: You mentioned sports psychologists obviously ingrained in the field that
27:54
Speaker 3: you're in, you yourself a therapist for people that are
27:59
Speaker 3: listening to this that may not have a solid grasp
28:01
Speaker 3: on perhaps the differences between being a sports psyche, a
28:05
Speaker 3: sports therapist. I know a lot of people work with
28:08
Speaker 3: someone like a life coach. Can we shed some color
28:11
Speaker 3: here on the differences between those different types of professions.
28:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean so when you think of
28:20
Speaker 1: like I'm a licensed social worker, a certified Sports Performance
28:24
Speaker 1: coaches like a CMPC, and then you know, like life
28:27
Speaker 1: coaches or performance coaches, right, Like, there's it's really important
28:31
Speaker 1: to kind of just like look at the initials at
28:33
Speaker 1: the end of the name, and that will kind of
28:34
Speaker 1: tell you, like what this person is trained in as
28:38
Speaker 1: a social worker. I'm trained in more of you know,
28:41
Speaker 1: the holistic overall relationship from a social aspect, right, So,
28:47
Speaker 1: like you're I understand obviously like the mental health side
28:50
Speaker 1: of things, and that's you know, where my clinical training
28:53
Speaker 1: is based in. But what I do primarily is focus
28:56
Speaker 1: on the athlete as a human being first, So who
29:00
Speaker 1: you are as a husband, a spouse, a wife, who
29:05
Speaker 1: you are you know as a co worker, who you
29:08
Speaker 1: are as a parent, perhaps a brother, sibling, what other
29:12
Speaker 1: life stressors are going on, like your identity outside of sport,
29:15
Speaker 1: but how all that impacts you as an athlete. And
29:19
Speaker 1: then sports performance coaches like they will work on some
29:22
Speaker 1: of that stuff as well. There's over a lot for sure,
29:25
Speaker 1: but they're really trained in understanding how your mind works
29:29
Speaker 1: as an athlete. So when you're you know, for example,
29:33
Speaker 1: for maybe a basketball player, if you're having trouble with
29:36
Speaker 1: free throws, like, maybe some of the techniques that could
29:39
Speaker 1: help you from a mental side, the mental side of
29:42
Speaker 1: sport to improve the anxiety around shooting free throws. So
29:46
Speaker 1: it might be like visualization practices or you know, thinking
29:49
Speaker 1: of defining your why, different things like that that really
29:52
Speaker 1: help just zone in on the mental side of sport.
29:58
Speaker 1: And then life coaches they're not trained from a clinical level,
30:02
Speaker 1: but they can really work through your like mindset. They
30:05
Speaker 1: can work through like defining goals. And I know life
30:08
Speaker 1: coaches are different. Everyone has their own kind of notion
30:10
Speaker 1: what they like to work on.
30:11
Speaker 3: But if that same person that was having a problem
30:14
Speaker 3: with their free throw came to work with you, how
30:16
Speaker 3: would you approach their situation?
30:19
Speaker 1: So I would talk to them first and get a
30:21
Speaker 1: really good understanding of what is it about free throws that, like,
30:24
Speaker 1: what are their thoughts in general on a free throw?
30:26
Speaker 1: Like what what do you think of it? Do you
30:28
Speaker 1: think it's stupid you think it's helpful, like when it
30:31
Speaker 1: comes to just the sport, and then from there I
30:33
Speaker 1: would try and really dig deep to try and define
30:35
Speaker 1: like what their thinking patterns are around free throws, like
30:38
Speaker 1: what is kind of creating the anxiety for you from
30:40
Speaker 1: more of like a CBT lens, and then understanding how
30:44
Speaker 1: that thought might play into their behavior, which might be
30:49
Speaker 1: are you mechanically doing everything right from a technical perspective?
30:52
Speaker 1: Is it truly mental? Do we need to work on
30:54
Speaker 1: then the mental side or do we then need to
30:56
Speaker 1: refer you to someone who can help you with the
30:58
Speaker 1: mechanics of that?
30:59
Speaker 2: Yeah?
30:59
Speaker 1: And then you know, really then working on different stress
31:02
Speaker 1: management techniques around free throw, so working on maybe exposure
31:07
Speaker 1: therapy outside of it, Like what is something that you
31:10
Speaker 1: can do that would help you feel more confident before
31:15
Speaker 1: you even shoot the free throw? Is it like stepping
31:17
Speaker 1: up to the line. Is it having a certain ritual
31:19
Speaker 1: or routine before you do that? Like giving their autonomy
31:23
Speaker 1: back rather than feeling like this is something that's being
31:25
Speaker 1: taken from them, and how can I take that control back?
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34:38
Speaker 3: You were talking about how such an integral part to
34:44
Speaker 3: what you do is sitting down and talking to people
34:47
Speaker 3: about their identity beyond sport. Oftentimes, so much of an
34:50
Speaker 3: athlete's identity is wrapped up within their sport, So how
34:55
Speaker 3: do you get to the foundations of who they are
35:00
Speaker 3: as a person. Is it challenging to even get to
35:03
Speaker 3: that beginning point with some of the people that you
35:05
Speaker 3: work with.
35:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, it depends on who you're working with and their
35:09
Speaker 1: relationship to their sport, because a lot of athletes at
35:14
Speaker 1: the elite level, like that is their entire life. You know,
35:17
Speaker 1: I can relate to that even in some capacity. Growing up,
35:19
Speaker 1: Like I didn't have any other hobbies or activities because
35:23
Speaker 1: I played sports year round, from travel teams to like
35:26
Speaker 1: training camps to like after like in season, Like it's
35:30
Speaker 1: just non stop. So when you think of like your
35:33
Speaker 1: identity outside of sport, it's hard to even fathom, Like
35:35
Speaker 1: what else is there to me because I dedicate so
35:37
Speaker 1: much my time to this. So it's really like helping
35:41
Speaker 1: them see that, Like, your identity doesn't actually have to
35:43
Speaker 1: be anything that you do per se. It can be
35:45
Speaker 1: who you see yourself as, who you want to potentially be.
35:49
Speaker 1: Like for a lot of people, it's I'm also a parent,
35:53
Speaker 1: or I am a significant other, I'm a partner to someone,
35:56
Speaker 1: or I also really love fashion, you know, and that
36:00
Speaker 1: is another outlet for me. It's just finding other ways
36:02
Speaker 1: that people can kind of tie themselves to to feel
36:04
Speaker 1: fulfilled and feel like they are pouring into something something else,
36:10
Speaker 1: And once they can kind of see that, it helps,
36:13
Speaker 1: I guess, give a little bit of gravity to the situation, like, yes,
36:17
Speaker 1: this is your career, but it's not what defines you.
36:20
Speaker 1: You know, there's so much more to you. Like I
36:22
Speaker 1: look at an athlete like Jalen Hurts, for example, like
36:26
Speaker 1: he can tell you what his identity is outside of football,
36:29
Speaker 1: you know, like that man has so much going for
36:31
Speaker 1: him outside He's doing amazing things for you know, the
36:35
Speaker 1: community for women in sport. His entire management team is women,
36:39
Speaker 1: and you know, things like that, like he might not
36:42
Speaker 1: be necessarily doing anything, but he's also an advocate for
36:47
Speaker 1: you know, women's empowerment, and that's part of his identity.
36:49
Speaker 1: And sometimes it's helping the athlete even see that. It's
36:52
Speaker 1: hard to even just like when it's just sec it
36:54
Speaker 1: feels like second nature. Sometimes it's hard to even say like, oh,
36:56
Speaker 1: that is part of who I am. So it's defining
37:00
Speaker 1: that looks like and then challenging them at times, support
37:03
Speaker 1: into that and sometimes creating a bit of a break
37:08
Speaker 1: from the sport to really channel into other things, which
37:12
Speaker 1: is good because it then helps prepare for life after sport.
37:15
Speaker 3: I think there are a lot of people that listen
37:17
Speaker 3: and feel as though they're at a standstill when we
37:21
Speaker 3: get to this topic. Maybe they do have one identity,
37:24
Speaker 3: whether or not it is rooted within sport, and then
37:27
Speaker 3: they ask themselves, who am I beyond this thing? So foundationally,
37:34
Speaker 3: for someone who's trying to articulate what is there, let's
37:39
Speaker 3: call it their philosophy, the crux of who they are?
37:43
Speaker 2: Where do they begin?
37:44
Speaker 1: This is something I'll tell clients and sometimes at baffers.
37:47
Speaker 1: I mean, I'll be honest, but I'll say pick three
37:51
Speaker 1: to five people in your life that are your go
37:54
Speaker 1: to people, your most trusted people, and reach out to them,
38:00
Speaker 1: have them defind it for you, like ask their opinions
38:03
Speaker 1: on things, and that doesn't mean that that's actually exactly true, right,
38:08
Speaker 1: Like you can take their feedback and you can agree
38:10
Speaker 1: with it, you could disagree, but take from that what
38:12
Speaker 1: you want as a good starting point. Right. It also
38:14
Speaker 1: might mean just like taking some time to like look
38:16
Speaker 1: around your room or your home or any of your
38:19
Speaker 1: spaces and like see what you have. I'm looking at
38:21
Speaker 1: my bookshelf right now, and I have a bunch of
38:23
Speaker 1: la boo boos up there, and like books and little
38:26
Speaker 1: nick knacks and like, sometimes we just have to do
38:28
Speaker 1: a personal inventory of who we are to remind ourselves
38:33
Speaker 1: of those things. And then also I'm a big fan
38:37
Speaker 1: of identity mapping as well, So there's like a lot
38:39
Speaker 1: of just different worksheets online that I'll find and like
38:42
Speaker 1: send to clients and challenge them to answer some of
38:45
Speaker 1: those questions and reflect on that. Or even doing a
38:49
Speaker 1: reflection of like your core values and beliefs is another
38:52
Speaker 1: good place to start to help find your identity.
38:54
Speaker 3: What I'm hearing you say, is it doesn't need to
38:56
Speaker 3: be crazy complicated. It is something thing that is normal
39:02
Speaker 3: to question to do this type of work. It's not
39:07
Speaker 3: something to be worried about or ashamed of. Everyone needs
39:10
Speaker 3: to start somewhere, and starting and doing this inquree is
39:14
Speaker 3: a lot better than not.
39:17
Speaker 1: And the beauty of it is we can always add
39:19
Speaker 1: or subtract from that list thor that map, whatever that
39:23
Speaker 1: looks like.
39:24
Speaker 3: I think it's also really helpful that recommendation of reaching
39:26
Speaker 3: out to other people and allowing them to quote unquote
39:29
Speaker 3: define it for you, because that's a helpful exercise. You
39:34
Speaker 3: may not be aware of what it is that you
39:38
Speaker 3: are truly conveying to the world around you, so to
39:41
Speaker 3: get that feedback and then rather then maybe feel some
39:45
Speaker 3: kind of way about it, like okay, yes you can
39:47
Speaker 3: feel some kind of way about it, But then you
39:49
Speaker 3: have the opportunity to ask yourself, what do I want
39:51
Speaker 3: to do with this information?
39:52
Speaker 1: And that's what we're in sessions. I'll like make sure
39:55
Speaker 1: I preface it like, okay, get this information. If you're
39:59
Speaker 1: if it makes you feel a certain way, leave it
40:03
Speaker 1: on the table. We'll let's we'll talk about it next week,
40:05
Speaker 1: and then we kind of work on processing that information
40:07
Speaker 1: together and you know, helping them see like, this is
40:11
Speaker 1: just like how you're being perceived, you know, and if
40:14
Speaker 1: that's okay, cool, if it's you want to change it, like,
40:17
Speaker 1: let's talk strategies on how to change it.
40:19
Speaker 3: This is actually, uh, kind of bringing me to another
40:22
Speaker 3: conversation point, this how I'm being perceived. We have a
40:26
Speaker 3: lot more opportunity and ability to own that narrative than
40:31
Speaker 3: maybe even we recognize. I had a conversation with someone
40:34
Speaker 3: the other day who was super interested in getting into
40:38
Speaker 3: public speaking and doing more consumer facing events, and per
40:42
Speaker 3: perception of me is you do it so well, you're
40:45
Speaker 3: always out there.
40:46
Speaker 2: How did you begin?
40:47
Speaker 3: And I said, beginning for me was positioning myself in
40:51
Speaker 3: a way that this is who I want to be.
40:53
Speaker 3: So maybe before you are an expert expert, you're going
40:57
Speaker 3: to have to start somewhere, and that starts with putting
41:00
Speaker 3: yourself in the driver's seat.
41:01
Speaker 1: We're all first time humans. I mean, unless you're into
41:05
Speaker 1: the whole spirituality, reincarnation, I don't know a world. But like,
41:09
Speaker 1: for the most part, we're all doing this for the
41:11
Speaker 1: first time, you know, and so we can't expect to
41:14
Speaker 1: come out of the womb and just have it all
41:16
Speaker 1: figured out, and we're never going to have it figured
41:19
Speaker 1: out if we don't move in a direction. You know,
41:22
Speaker 1: and I'm very much in the camp of it's a journey.
41:25
Speaker 1: You know, we are going to learn, We're going to
41:27
Speaker 1: change our minds. We're going to like, we're never on
41:30
Speaker 1: a straight shot anywhere, and as long as we can
41:33
Speaker 1: kind of keep reminding ourselves that we take one step
41:38
Speaker 1: in any direction, for the most part, we're either gonna
41:41
Speaker 1: keep going in that direction because we're going to realize
41:43
Speaker 1: that this is we're doing things right, or we're going
41:46
Speaker 1: to learn from it and that's going to help us
41:47
Speaker 1: go in a different direction.
41:48
Speaker 3: Yeah, clarity is always a good thing, even if it
41:51
Speaker 3: gives you information that you're not super stoked on, because
41:54
Speaker 3: then it enables and empowers you to figure out what's
41:57
Speaker 3: your next best move. When you got to a place
41:59
Speaker 3: where you knew that this was the work that you
42:01
Speaker 3: really wanted to dabble in, I know you talked about
42:04
Speaker 3: and shed a little bit of light of like how
42:06
Speaker 3: you got some of these first hype profile clients, But
42:09
Speaker 3: in practice, what did that look like for you?
42:11
Speaker 1: Now? I don't want to say fake it till I
42:12
Speaker 1: make it, because I don't think I was necessarily faking it,
42:14
Speaker 1: but it was like being very strategic about it all right,
42:17
Speaker 1: like this like kind of like what you were saying,
42:19
Speaker 1: like positioning yourself in ways that you want to be perceived,
42:23
Speaker 1: that you want people to be able to hire you
42:25
Speaker 1: for those opportunities, and using the things that are in
42:27
Speaker 1: my control, right, Like I can't control who views me
42:31
Speaker 1: a certain way or who thinks I'm capable of what,
42:34
Speaker 1: but I can control what I put out there online.
42:36
Speaker 1: I can control who I reach out to you and
42:37
Speaker 1: attempt to network with and build relationships with. So for
42:41
Speaker 1: a while I was really scared of that I'm being
42:44
Speaker 1: in private practice. It's extremely isolating. I don't have colleagues.
42:47
Speaker 1: I still to this day struggle with this, but I
42:49
Speaker 1: will try. If I'm you know, traveling, I will make
42:51
Speaker 1: a point to like reach out to people on LinkedIn
42:55
Speaker 1: through social media mutual contacts, just to try and get
42:58
Speaker 1: a coffee, to just meet up to talk. Because to
43:00
Speaker 1: a lot of the times, like through especially the digital age,
43:04
Speaker 1: like people are so quick to kind of just like
43:06
Speaker 1: think they know who we are based on our online presence.
43:08
Speaker 1: But I think if we can get ourselves in front
43:10
Speaker 1: of someone and show like who we really are as
43:12
Speaker 1: human beings like that can make a auge difference. So
43:15
Speaker 1: that's what I'm trying to be better at right now
43:19
Speaker 1: my life, which is hard. It's hard to put yourself
43:22
Speaker 1: out there. It's hard to feel rejected at times. But
43:25
Speaker 1: I'm trying to do that and realizing that, like there
43:29
Speaker 1: are people that say no, but it's still the same
43:31
Speaker 1: outcome as if I never did it in the first place. Yeah,
43:34
Speaker 1: Also really being strategic about like the content I put
43:37
Speaker 1: out online, you know, talking more about sports, showing my
43:40
Speaker 1: interests not just as a therapist, but who I am
43:42
Speaker 1: as a human. I feel like if I'm going to
43:45
Speaker 1: kind of work with my clients in that capacity, it's
43:48
Speaker 1: very hypocritical for me to only go online and just
43:51
Speaker 1: post strictly professional content. And that's fine, Like I think,
43:55
Speaker 1: you know, there's like an old school in a new
43:57
Speaker 1: school mentality and like the wellness space of like how
44:00
Speaker 1: you need to show up in the digital space. But
44:02
Speaker 1: for me and like I can't be the therapist online
44:05
Speaker 1: that is just strictly you know, mental health content very
44:08
Speaker 1: professional because I like all this other stuff and I
44:12
Speaker 1: think it helps people relate a little bit more on
44:14
Speaker 1: a human level when you give a glimpse of who
44:16
Speaker 1: you are as a human being.
44:18
Speaker 2: I love seeing who you are holistically.
44:21
Speaker 3: And I totally hear you when you say, like there's
44:23
Speaker 3: like a new school way of thinking in an old
44:24
Speaker 3: school way of thinking of like I am supposed to
44:27
Speaker 3: just be one type of person that does one type
44:30
Speaker 3: of thing, and this is my purpose on the Internet.
44:32
Speaker 2: And I just.
44:33
Speaker 3: Don't think that that is relatable anymore. And I think
44:37
Speaker 3: that in this age where we do have such consistent
44:41
Speaker 3: access to so many people that we don't even know
44:44
Speaker 3: that we're looking to know them holistically, at least speaking
44:48
Speaker 3: from my own POV, I also really appreciate your openness
44:54
Speaker 3: about getting outside of your comfort zone when it comes
44:57
Speaker 3: to making those difficult asks and putting yourself out there
45:01
Speaker 3: knowing that a no is going to put you exactly
45:03
Speaker 3: where you would have been if you didn't try it
45:05
Speaker 3: the first place.
45:06
Speaker 2: For someone who feels really intimidated by the word no,
45:10
Speaker 2: who is scared to try because of the word no,
45:14
Speaker 2: because of that potential for getting rejected, how do they
45:19
Speaker 2: get over that hurdle.
45:20
Speaker 1: One thing I could say that helps me personally reframing
45:24
Speaker 1: the word no, so maybe it's not instead of it
45:27
Speaker 1: being no, not thinking no means I'm not good enough.
45:30
Speaker 1: Maybe it's just I'm not there yet, it's not the
45:32
Speaker 1: right time, they don't have the budget, they're looking for
45:35
Speaker 1: something just I can't offer right now. Trying to like
45:39
Speaker 1: reframe it so it's not an all or nothing type
45:41
Speaker 1: of like I'm good or bad, and that it's so
45:44
Speaker 1: much more gray area in between, and then also baby
45:47
Speaker 1: steps right like I do have like an ongoing notes
45:51
Speaker 1: app list of people I want to reach out without
45:53
Speaker 1: to at some point this year and try and establish
45:56
Speaker 1: a relationship with in some capacity, and you know, move
45:59
Speaker 1: at your your own pace. Don't feel like you need
46:01
Speaker 1: to jump head first into any of it. But if
46:04
Speaker 1: you do have some downtime, set a goal, maybe it's
46:06
Speaker 1: one person a week you reach out to or one
46:08
Speaker 1: person a month, you know, whatever feels safe and comfortable,
46:11
Speaker 1: but also at times challenge yourself because we are capable
46:14
Speaker 1: of more than we think, and the more we get
46:16
Speaker 1: used to hearing though, the more we can we can
46:18
Speaker 1: handle it too.
46:18
Speaker 3: I love that the more that you get used to
46:20
Speaker 3: hearing no, the more that you can handle it. What
46:23
Speaker 3: has been one of your most let's call it Kobe like, yes,
46:27
Speaker 3: is something that you shot for that felt like it
46:29
Speaker 3: was a little bit bigger than you, that came back
46:31
Speaker 3: and really changed the way that you thought about going
46:35
Speaker 3: after the things that excite you moving forward.
46:37
Speaker 1: Honestly, I think it was just like getting into a
46:40
Speaker 1: lot of the referral networks for teams that, like, I
46:42
Speaker 1: didn't think in a million years people would take me
46:45
Speaker 1: seriously or respect me, you know, in that capacity. I
46:48
Speaker 1: struggle so much. This is something that comes up like
46:51
Speaker 1: weekly with my therapist of just like wanting to be
46:55
Speaker 1: taken seriously but also not wanting to kind of fit
46:58
Speaker 1: a mold right on, at least online with my online persona.
47:01
Speaker 1: And I feel like in the networking space today, a
47:05
Speaker 1: lot of people that might like look into me will
47:08
Speaker 1: see my public persona online and make assumptions, And so
47:14
Speaker 1: I worry all the time of like, oh, well, they
47:16
Speaker 1: want to work with me because they're going to see
47:18
Speaker 1: that Like I go to Disney World, and I you know,
47:20
Speaker 1: love to go to these things and do things that
47:23
Speaker 1: might not be the most professional post online even though
47:26
Speaker 1: I'm not hurting anyone doing it, and getting over that
47:30
Speaker 1: because I did reach out to people, it did work out,
47:33
Speaker 1: and if anything, it's made those relationships stronger and has
47:37
Speaker 1: actually improved my confidence and helps me kind of own
47:40
Speaker 1: who I am at times. I just went through like
47:42
Speaker 1: a really weird insurance situation with one of the teams
47:46
Speaker 1: I work with, and I wanted to get to the
47:48
Speaker 1: bottom of the situation and want like put a lot
47:50
Speaker 1: of work into figuring things out. And the person the
47:53
Speaker 1: head of mental health on that team, you know, got
47:55
Speaker 1: back to me and was just like, I'm you know,
47:57
Speaker 1: so grateful for you, and like just even hearing like
48:00
Speaker 1: the validation of that, like was nice. It was just
48:03
Speaker 1: nice to know, like, Okay, you respect me. And then
48:05
Speaker 1: like recently another mentor of mine who I really look
48:10
Speaker 1: up to and he has helped me in so many ways,
48:12
Speaker 1: like get into doors because he's a performance coach, and
48:15
Speaker 1: I find like, you know, there's kind of like the
48:17
Speaker 1: performance coaches and the therapists in the world and they
48:19
Speaker 1: don't really intersect and there's not a lot of like
48:21
Speaker 1: openness to get into one or the other. He recently
48:25
Speaker 1: reached out and was like, hey, like I have an
48:27
Speaker 1: opportunity in New York, you know, in may I can't
48:29
Speaker 1: be there, but it's a demo presentation that I you're
48:33
Speaker 1: the only person I trust to do this, and I
48:36
Speaker 1: was like, yes down, So like it's hearing things like
48:39
Speaker 1: that that like know that the people I look up
48:41
Speaker 1: to respect me as well. And if I never reached
48:45
Speaker 1: out to make those relationships and foster those relationships over time,
48:49
Speaker 1: it wouldn't it wouldn't have got to this point. So
48:52
Speaker 1: put yourself out there, because it works and you're capable.
48:56
Speaker 3: So many beautiful things here about owning who it is
48:59
Speaker 3: that you are and understanding that when you do that,
49:03
Speaker 3: the things that are meant for you and in alignment
49:06
Speaker 3: for you will stay right. And so if you were
49:09
Speaker 3: to hide these parts of you that holistically make up
49:12
Speaker 3: what makes you great, then the situations or the business
49:17
Speaker 3: moments even that you might find yourself in might not
49:20
Speaker 3: be aligned with who it is that you are anyway.
49:23
Speaker 1: No, and I promise it comes full circle because there
49:27
Speaker 1: are so many times where, like I will one of
49:30
Speaker 1: the movies I love to tell clients to watch is
49:32
Speaker 1: Inside Out and Inside Out too, and then it you know,
49:35
Speaker 1: they always laugh, They're like, oh, it's because you like Disney,
49:38
Speaker 1: Like you know, give me a little bit of shit
49:40
Speaker 1: for referring a children's movie to them, but you know what,
49:44
Speaker 1: they respect me. They watch it. For the ones that
49:46
Speaker 1: do watch it, they come back and they're like, I
49:48
Speaker 1: get it now, and then they're kind of like Disney
49:51
Speaker 1: after that. So it's a win win, But it does
49:54
Speaker 1: come back full circle and it pays off. And I
49:56
Speaker 1: think when you authentically use your interest right, like Inside
49:59
Speaker 1: Out a great movie to watch when you're trying to
50:01
Speaker 1: understand emotions from a visual perspective, but when you're being
50:06
Speaker 1: referred to by someone who you also know loves Disney,
50:08
Speaker 1: you're maybe a little bit more inclined to actually follow
50:11
Speaker 1: through on that. So lean into it. Own it.
50:14
Speaker 3: You're uh, you're enticing me to like get back into
50:17
Speaker 3: the plot of Inside Out.
50:19
Speaker 1: One hundred percent. I don't know if you've seen Inside
50:21
Speaker 1: Out too yet, but.
50:24
Speaker 3: If you walk away from this podcast with one recommendation
50:27
Speaker 3: outside of owning your know and putting up some boundaries,
50:30
Speaker 3: it's go watch Inside Out.
50:32
Speaker 1: Yeah. If you're Yeah, if you're struggling to understand what
50:35
Speaker 1: anxiety is, it's the best I swear it's the best
50:39
Speaker 1: visual representation of how anxiety overtakes your brain.
50:43
Speaker 2: I love it. I'm in. I'm all in.
50:45
Speaker 3: Uh right now, someone comes to your Instagram page and
50:49
Speaker 3: they see and we talked about this what they may perceive.
50:52
Speaker 2: Right.
50:53
Speaker 3: So, I licensed social worker, the founder of Mental SASH psychotherapist.
50:59
Speaker 3: But when you look in the mirror, what is it
51:01
Speaker 3: that you see looking at you?
51:03
Speaker 1: I It depends on the day. Honestly, today I would say,
51:08
Speaker 1: you know, a wife, a dog mom. Like I. God,
51:11
Speaker 1: I'm getting like emotional even thinking about this question. But
51:15
Speaker 1: I would say, you know, I identify first and foremost
51:18
Speaker 1: with like the people in my life rather than my career. Yeah,
51:24
Speaker 1: who I am as a human? You know, Like I
51:26
Speaker 1: just my qualities that make me me and those qualities
51:31
Speaker 1: that help me do my job efficiently and well. I
51:34
Speaker 1: care about people. I want better for the world. And
51:37
Speaker 1: I think because of those qualities at my core, at
51:42
Speaker 1: a human level, that helps me show up as a
51:45
Speaker 1: therapist or as a wife or as a dog mom.
51:48
Speaker 1: So I look in the mirror and I see like
51:51
Speaker 1: the qualities about myself that I want other people to see.
51:56
Speaker 3: It's really a beautiful example of something that's so many
52:00
Speaker 3: of us strive for, is to see looking back at you,
52:04
Speaker 3: what it is that you feel so deeply passionate about.
52:07
Speaker 3: And I think when we are in situations when we
52:11
Speaker 3: let those intrusive thoughts seep in, or we're not seeing
52:14
Speaker 3: those holistic good things about us looking back, and that's
52:17
Speaker 3: an opportunity to do that level of inquiry and really
52:21
Speaker 3: ask yourself, like, what is it that's preventing me from
52:23
Speaker 3: being my best self and looking at the mirror and
52:25
Speaker 3: seeing something I'm proud of looking back?
52:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, don't get me wrong, I have das where I
52:30
Speaker 1: look at myself. I'll say, like, think the worst about myself.
52:32
Speaker 1: That's part of it too. It ebbs and flows, but
52:37
Speaker 1: it's you know, when I am thinking those bad things
52:40
Speaker 1: about myself, that's also time to let other people know,
52:44
Speaker 1: right Like, I need to either talk to my therapists
52:46
Speaker 1: more about that stuff, or I need to tell my
52:49
Speaker 1: family and my husband whoever. It's just like, my brain's
52:52
Speaker 1: not in a good place. My thoughts are. This is
52:55
Speaker 1: the quality of my thoughts right now.
52:57
Speaker 3: That though there is so much pawer in that and
53:01
Speaker 3: recognizing that you are not those thoughts. This is the
53:03
Speaker 3: quality of my thoughts right now. It is not the
53:06
Speaker 3: quality of my thoughts forever. It doesn't need to stay
53:08
Speaker 3: like this for weeks and weeks and months to come.
53:11
Speaker 3: You have the opportunity to frame and take ownership over
53:14
Speaker 3: what happens next, recognizing that this is how it is
53:18
Speaker 3: right now.
53:19
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. One thing my therapists actually taught me, and
53:22
Speaker 1: something that I do I share with my clients a
53:24
Speaker 1: lot too, is when trying to when you feel a
53:27
Speaker 1: certain way and you're trying to talk to someone else
53:29
Speaker 1: about how you're feeling, and it could potentially lead to
53:31
Speaker 1: conflict or it can lead to, you know, a disagreement
53:34
Speaker 1: in some capacity, the best way that I can approach
53:37
Speaker 1: it is by saying, this is what my brain is
53:40
Speaker 1: telling me, Like, this is what my thoughts are saying
53:43
Speaker 1: right now, rather than saying like you're this or you're that,
53:46
Speaker 1: like third party, it into like your thoughts right not
53:50
Speaker 1: don't make it this is exactly what I believe about you,
53:53
Speaker 1: because it's not. It's just what you're thinking. Your thoughts
53:56
Speaker 1: and your beliefs. There's a distinction between the two. You
53:59
Speaker 1: don't have always believe the thoughts that you have.
54:02
Speaker 2: You don't have to believe them at all.
54:04
Speaker 3: I wind on the podcast every time by asking my
54:06
Speaker 3: guests knowing what you know now, reflecting on that hurdle moment,
54:10
Speaker 3: which was feeling let's say, really anxious and uneasy within
54:14
Speaker 3: your own relationship with sport, feeling incapable of showing up
54:18
Speaker 3: how you wanted to, feeling like you needed to go
54:21
Speaker 3: to two hundred and twenty five percent, and also knowing
54:24
Speaker 3: that wasn't sustainable. Knowing what you know now, what would
54:28
Speaker 3: you offer yourself for advice going through that hurdle moment?
54:32
Speaker 1: Yeah? I would. I would tell myself that it's okay
54:37
Speaker 1: to slow down, it's okay to be different, and it's
54:40
Speaker 1: okay to take things at your own at your own pace,
54:44
Speaker 1: in your in, your in what you can handle, Yeah,
54:46
Speaker 1: I think. And I would also tell myself that you
54:49
Speaker 1: got to find a better support system and that one
54:51
Speaker 1: day it'll be there.
54:53
Speaker 3: One day, it'll be there. Liz, I'm so happy that
54:55
Speaker 3: we were able to have this chat today. For those
54:56
Speaker 3: that aren't following along with you just yet, I give
55:00
Speaker 3: us the lowdown.
55:01
Speaker 2: Where do we find you?
55:03
Speaker 1: Absolutely so, if you are looking for strictly mental health content,
55:06
Speaker 1: you can follow my private practice and slash consulting company's
55:11
Speaker 1: web instagram which is Mental sash MB NTL dot s
55:15
Speaker 1: E s H. And then mentalsash dot com is our website,
55:18
Speaker 1: and then for my life as a therapist, as a human,
55:22
Speaker 1: as a Disney adult, as a dog mom. That's my
55:24
Speaker 1: personal Instagram, which is Liz the letter B, and then
55:27
Speaker 1: cro o f T. It was at one point lbcraft
55:30
Speaker 1: and then I switched it, and then someone took it
55:32
Speaker 1: and I can't get it back. People think my last
55:36
Speaker 1: name is Croft all the time, and it would be
55:37
Speaker 1: really cool because I would go as Laura Croft tune
55:40
Speaker 1: Raider for Halloween, but I can't naturally.
55:42
Speaker 2: Oh my god. Well, I'm happy that you are as
55:45
Speaker 2: you are.
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Speaker 3: I'm over Adam Laybody at Hurdle Podcast Another Hurdle conquered.
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Speaker 2: Catch you guys next time.