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Spiritual Bypassing Why Good Vibes Only Can Be Toxic · Too Awkward for a Twosome

• In-person participant 1: Hey, quick pause. If this episode is hitting you and you're ready for real tools, here's what we built. Clint - Mic: Hey, quick pause. If this episode is hitting you and you're ready for real tools, here's what we built. Head on over to CJElevatedLife.com, pick up the Rebuilt Method for Men or the Rebuilt Method for Women, just $67 each. We also created the Parasite Detox Blueprint at $37. And this is actually the exact protocol we use ourselves. And... Spiritual bypassing is a term used in psychology and spirituality to describe when someone uses spiritual ideas, beliefs, or practices to avoid dealing with real emotional wounds, psychological work, or difficult life realities. The term was coined in the 1980s by John Wellwood, who noticed that many people in spiritual communities were using spiritual language to sidestep unresolved emotional issues instead of healing them. In simple terms, Elevated Life: Welcome to Elevated Life Real Wellness and Transformation podcast, where we walk alongside the internally driven individual as they transform their life through wellness, movement, mindset, and personal responsibility. If that's you, you're in the right place. Let's jump in. Johnna - Mic: Bye. Elevated Life: Hey friends, if you're getting something out of this, connect with us on our social media platforms. We're at CJElevatedLife underscore on Instagram and TikTok and CJElevatedLife on Facebook and X. We're answering DMs, sharing daily content and building community with people ready for real transformation. For now, hit subscribe wherever you're listening, Apple, Spotify, YouTube. We drop two new episodes every week. And if this episode resonates, share it. Johnna - Mic: or difficult life realities. The term was coined in the 1980s by John Wellwood, who noticed that many people in spiritual communities were using spiritual language to sidestep unresolved emotional issues instead of healing them. In simple terms, spiritual bypassing equals using spirituality to avoid doing deeper inner work. What? That's a of processing pain, trauma, anger, grief, or accountability, In-person participant 1: $67 each we also created the parasite detox blueprint at $37 and this is actually the exact protocol And while you're there sign up for the newsletter You'll get the weekly action steps and new tools. We've tested ourselves. Let's get back to the episode Elevated Life: That's how we reach more people who are ready for change. You can also find everything at CJElevatedLife.com. All right, let's keep going. Clint - Mic: You'll get the weekly action steps and new tools we've tested ourselves. Let's get back to the episode. Spiritual bypassing equals using spirituality to avoid doing deeper inner work. Instead of processing pain, trauma, anger, grief, or accountability, a person jumps straight into positivity, detachment, or higher consciousness. Let's jump in. Johnna - Mic: person jumps straight into positivity, detachment or higher consciousness. Yes. Let's jump in. Let's do it. I'm just going to jump right in the boiling pot and say this is absolutely something that I have struggled with. I'll get closer. In the past and I still there are aspects to this that I struggle with. I think that Clint - Mic: Still there are aspects to this that I struggle with I think that Johnna - Mic: ⁓ I was forced into a corner last year to stop spiritual bypassing and you know, it was just... That's just the way that it went. But I definitely struggled with what we're going to talk about today. And the reason why we're talking about this is because it's really easy to jump from, okay, I'm done doing negative people and drama. I'm going to jump over here to good vibes only. And we we did a podcast about good vibes only, but I thought we would dive deep into Clint - Mic: just the way that it went. But I definitely struggled with what we're going to talk about today. And the reason why we're talking about this is because it's really easy to jump from, okay, I'm done doing negative people and drama. I'm gonna jump over here to good vibes only. we did a podcast about good vibes only, but I thought we would dive. deep into what this actually is because with the expansion of consciousness happening on Johnna - Mic: what this actually is, because with the expansion of consciousness happening on the planet right now, ⁓ I want people to be aware, right, of what this looks like. And also so that you can see with discernment, not with judgment, you know, those people who are wearing this whole no guru thing right now that are Clint - Mic: aware of what this looks like and also so that you can see with discernment not with judgment you know those people who are wearing this whole no guru thing right now that are maybe teaching more of the spiritual bypassing instead of that snot face on your bed crying dealing with your shit Johnna - Mic: maybe teaching more of the spiritual bypassing instead of the snot face on your bed crying dealing with your shit. Yeah, this one is before we get in. It's very Clint - Mic: Yeah, this one is, before we get in, it's very complex and nuanced. And if you don't have a good understanding of it, just internally for yourself, it can really feel like, ⁓ I'm doing the shit that I'm supposed to be doing. I'm checking all these boxes, and I mean it. But really, what is it? Johnna - Mic: Yes. And if you don't have a good understanding of it just internally for yourself, it can really feel like, ⁓ I'm doing the shit that I'm supposed to be doing. You know, I'm checking all these boxes. Yeah. And I mean it. Yeah. But really, what is it? What is it? Yeah. Is it really just spiritual bypassing at some level or is it is it actually something deeper? So I think anybody Clint - Mic: What is it? Is it really just spiritual bypassing at some level or is it actually something deeper? I think anybody who has gone on this journey has probably dealt with, whether they realize it or not, some level of spiritual bypassing, especially when you start. Sure, I absolutely agree with that. Johnna - Mic: Anybody who has gone on this journey has probably dealt with whether they realize it or not. Some level of spiritual bypassing. I would. Start. Sure. I absolutely agree with that. Like you didn't. You know, I I can talk about my own experience. I thought, ⁓ no, this is this is it. Right. Just hop right over to the good vibes only. And that helped. I can honestly say that was like the first step of maybe, you know, awakening. But then it was like, okay, now we're gonna dive in. So with that, let's dive in. Okay. So at its root, spiritual bypassing is an avoidant strategy, which is probably one of the reasons why I glopped on to it for so long because Clint - Mic: So go ahead and dive in Johnna - Mic: You know, if you've listened to past podcasts, you know that I was an avoidant for a huge part of my life. So painful experiences like childhood wounds, shame, betrayal, grief and trauma are uncomfortable to face. Right. And so spiritual beliefs can become fake, a shortcut around the feelings, you know, all the things basically. So that rather than moving through the pain, Clint - Mic: And so spiritual beliefs can become fake, a shortcut around the feelings, know, all the things basically. that rather than moving through the pain, you completely jump away from it. Johnna - Mic: you completely jump away from it. That's that's it. Which feels good. Yeah, it does feel good, especially when you've been living in what the fuck chaos. I mean, I can see from my own experience, it felt very good for a season. Right. It did. So these are some phrases that, you know, they can look like. you guys are aware everything happens for a reason. Clint - Mic: which feels good. ⁓ Johnna - Mic: Right? Just stay positive or good vibes only. We've talked about that. That's just your ego. Right? That's another one. ⁓ Or I've transcended that. Right? These are the language sounds really spiritual and it sounds good and there is some goodness in it. Right? But the underlying emotions remain unprocessed because Clint - Mic: or good vibes only. We've talked about that. That's just your ego. These are the language sounds really spiritual and it sounds good and there is some goodness in it, right? But the underlying emotions remain unprocessed because that can look Johnna - Mic: that can look ugly really those emotions in the spiritual world the real emotions detached to that yeah so absolutely so why does it happen there's lots of reasons we'll get into a few of them here but ⁓ first one being discomfort with pain yeah so basically what you're just talking about is i'm i'm not interested this is i feel bad Clint - Mic: Yeah, absolutely. There's lots of reasons. We'll get into a few of them here, but the first one being discomfort with pain. Really, so basically what you're just talking about is I'm not interested. This is, I feel bad. I feel vulnerable. I feel like all those negative things and like I don't want to do that anymore. And I mean, a lot of these things are gonna kinda meld mesh together, but it just, there's so much now that's like, well then don't feel that. And like, ⁓ hey. Johnna - Mic: Yeah. ⁓ Clint - Mic: This is awesome. I don't have to feel this anymore. And now I'm good. Except you're not. But definitely discomfort with pain. Johnna - Mic: Yeah. And once someone identifies as a spiritual person, really becomes and I can say this for myself, it becomes really difficult to identify with emotions like anger, jealousy, resentment, fear, inadequacy, whatever those things are. Like who really wants to feel that? Right. But we've talked about it. Clint - Mic: fear, inadequacy, whatever those things are, who really wants to feel that? But we've talked about it before, the only way out is through. But you jump into this bypassing, at least I did, at first. It seemed natural to me. It was my past. Johnna - Mic: before the only way out is through. But you know, you jump into this bypassing at least I did at first, right? It just seems it seemed natural to me. It was my path. Yeah. Yeah. This one also dabbles in some of the ego. Because you become if you instantly Clint - Mic: Yeah, yeah, this one also dabbles in some of the ego because when you become, if you instantly become, you know, ⁓ I'm enlightened or, you know, I've moved into this good vibes only kind of a feel. And then, and then that's the identity that you try to create with other people. Now all of sudden you have to live that all the time. Johnna - Mic: into this good vibes only kind of a feel. then and then that's the identity that you try to create with other people. Now all of a sudden you have to live that all the time. Perform. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm the good vibes only guy. So if I get pissed off about something, everybody's gonna be like, what the hell is going on? Yeah. Why are you having emotions? Like I I definitely battled this for sure. Clint - Mic: Yeah, so I'm the good vibes only guy now. So if I get pissed off about something, everybody's gonna be like, what the hell is going on? Yeah, why are you having emotions? Johnna - Mic: It became performative, but I really did at the heart of that feel kind of good vibes only, right? But then when those things would bubble up, I was like, push that shit down, right? And, you know, it's going to bubble up like a volcano if you, if you don't deal. So the other thing is culturally, we have pressure to be positive right now. So go ahead. Clint - Mic: Right? But then when those things would bubble up, I was like, push that shirt off. Right? You know, if you don't deal. So the other thing is culturally we have pressure to be positive right now. Sorry to interrupt, but especially when, again, when you're just starting this journey and you're just like a sponge looking for information. Like, what do I do? How do I do this? You know, all these things. And then it's like, ⁓ well, that's what you hear. You see on Instagram. Johnna - Mic: when you're just starting this journey and you're just like a sponge, looking for information. What do I do? How do I do this? All these things. And then it's like, well, that's what you hear. You see on Instagram, again, be positive. Everything is great. I'm ⁓ that's how I'm supposed to be. Yep, exactly. these ideas can be helpful, but taken to the extremes, Clint - Mic: Again, be positive and everything is great. Like, ⁓ that's how I'm supposed to be. Yeah, exactly. what these ideas can be helpful, but taken to the extremes, it will it's denying real human emotion, right? And we are having a human experience. you know, be wary of anyone who's like, Johnna - Mic: ⁓ these can be helpful, but taken to the extremes, ⁓ Clint - Mic: what these ideas can be helpful, but taken to the extremes, it will it's denying human emotion, And we are having a human experience. ⁓ you know, be wary of anyone who's like, Johnna - Mic: It's denying real human emotion, right? And we are having a human experience. you know, be weary of anyone who's like, ⁓ no, I've just completely offended and blah, blah. Either they're not from this planet, legit, and they just have a skin suit, or, you know, they just haven't done the work, the real work. It's denying real human emotion, right? And we are having a human experience. you know, be weary of anyone who's like, ⁓ no, I've just completely offended and blah, blah. Either they're not from this planet, legit, and they just have a skin suit, or, you know, they just haven't done the work, the real work. Yeah. Clint - Mic: Yeah. Yeah. last one that I wanted to mention before we move on was fear of losing control. And I think this one impacted me the most when I started this whole thing because you feel like I can't go back. Johnna - Mic: Because you feel like I can't go back One tiny step what feels like backwards If I used to get pissed off about whatever situation and now I don't do that anymore So if I feel that even a tiny bit like ⁓ fuck I'm done. Yeah, I suck back in yeah, exactly all this is nothing. I'm know, whatever it's yeah, so Clint - Mic: One one tiny step what feels like backwards, know if if I used to get pissed off about whatever situation And now I don't do that anymore. So if I feel that even a tiny bit like oh fuck i'm i'm done i'm I fully back into yeah exactly all this is nothing i'm you know, whatever it spirals so there's definitely that too sweet's good that constant feeling of no, I have to stay 100 positive with everything Johnna - Mic: definitely that too. So it's good that constant feeling of no, have to stay 100 % positive with everything. cannot feel these emotions. Otherwise it might spiral into who knows what. Sure. But you know, we've talked about this before healing is an infinity sign. Right. And so it really is two steps forward, three steps back, four steps forward, three steps back. Like that is literally how it is. Clint - Mic: I cannot feel these emotions. Otherwise, it might spiral into who knows what Right? And so it really is two steps forward, three steps back, four steps forward, three steps back. That is literally how it is. So if you are experiencing that, then good. Like good. If you're just walking in good vibes only, I don't do drama, I've ascended. Johnna - Mic: So if you are experiencing that, then good, like good. If you're just walking in good vibes only, I don't do drama, I've ascended, I've had an ego death, you know, all of these terms, and you haven't been ⁓ laid out, snot faced on the ground, ⁓ you know, chiggity check, right? Chiggity check yourself. Clint - Mic: you know, all of these terms and you haven't been laid out, snot faced on the ground, you know, should you check, right? Should you check yourself? Yeah, for sure. So what does it look like? What does it look like when... Johnna - Mic: So what does it look like? What does it look like when, I guess things that, cause I want to avoid, know, like, I'm looking at that person. They're clearly spiritual bypassing, right? We're not talking about other people. does this look like internally? Some things that, that if you listen into this and thinking, Oh, I wonder if I'm doing that. Cause I feel like I'm good vibes all the time. You know, what are some things that you can, that you can look for inward to see? Clint - Mic: I guess it's things that, because I want to avoid, you know, like, ⁓ I'm looking at that person. They're clearly spiritual bypassing, right? We're not talking about for other people. What does this look like internally? Some things that, that if you listen into this and thinking, ⁓ I wonder if I'm doing that. Cause I feel like I'm good vibes all the time, you know, what are some things that you can, that you can look for inward to see if that's actually happening? Johnna - Mic: So before we move into that, I really want to make this clear and we make this clear when we dive deep into these kinds of podcasts. You we say these things for you to hold the mirror up, right? We're not saying this so that you can go out and judge all the other people like that's that's not where we're at on this podcast. So we say things we're talking about this because this is something that we Clint - Mic: We say these things for you to hold the mirror up, right? We're not saying this so that you can go out and judge all the other people. Like that's not where we're at in this podcast. So we say things, we're talking about this because this is something that we have struggled with. We didn't have the turn. Johnna - Mic: have struggled with. We didn't have the term. And then as we dove deeper into it, ⁓ spiritual bypassing is a thing. ⁓ we've walked. I'm sorry. Keep hitting that. You're going to be like, ⁓ my gosh, John, the sound anyway. So that's why we talk about this not to point the finger, because remember when you point the finger at someone else, you've got three pointing back at you and then your random thumb just pointing out somewhere else. Yes. Yes. OK, so Clint - Mic: And then as we dove deeper into it, oh, spiritual bypassing is a thing. Oh, we've walked, I'm sorry, I keep hitting that. You're gonna fine, no, that's fine. don't remember the sound. Anyway, so that's why we talk about this. Not to point the finger, because remember when you point the finger at someone else, you've got three pointing back at you and then your random thumb just pointing out. Assuming you have five fingers. Yes, yes. Okay, so. Johnna - Mic: Emotional suppression, right? So when someone insists they are peaceful or detached, but they never allow themselves to feel anger, grief and frustration. These, these emotions in this community are labeled low vibe, right? Low vibration, low frequency. And I can, this is something that I struggle with, right? I really have to capture those thoughts because I don't like to feel anything other than lovely. I really battle with that. I have my entire life. I think my spiritual bypassing started when I was very young and it was, it turned into delusional land. Clint - Mic: capture those thoughts because I don't like to feel anything other than love. I really battle with that. have my entire life. I think my spiritual bypassing started when I was very young. And it it turned into delusional land. Like I created a completely separate fake reality that didn't exist. Johnna - Mic: Like I created a completely separate fake reality that didn't exist from from bypassing. Now, I didn't have these words low vibe, but that's what I did. toxic positivity. I mean, we've talked about this, you know, endlessly. Just focus on the good. Don't dwell on negative. You're attracting, you know, this energy, which there's some truth in this guys. There really is. But Clint - Mic: I didn't have these words, low vibe, but that's what I did. mean, we've talked about this, you know, endlessly. Just focus on the good, don't dwell on negative. You're attracting, you know, this energy, which there's some truth in this, guys. There really is. But... We're gonna get into more of that in a little bit. thought Clint's just like, there's a bone right over here and he's so excited to on. But really, this is dismissing just real suffering. Johnna - Mic: Yeah, I've Clint's just like he's there's a bone like right over here and he's so excited. It is glob on to it. But really, this is dismissing just real suffering in the human experience. Yeah, absolutely. Avoiding personal responsibility. one, you know, when whatever happens, it's just like, oh, well, you know, that's karma or everything is just a lesson or I say that. Clint - Mic: Yeah, absolutely. Avoiding personal responsibility. This one, know, when whatever happens, it's just like, ⁓ well, you know, that's karma or ⁓ everything is just a lesson or. Johnna - Mic: I do. again, it highlights the nuance of things. Yeah. Yes, there are lessons in everything. That doesn't mean it was only a lesson. Yeah. It could also mean you fucked up. Yeah. And you got to own that. Totally. But here's the lesson I can learn from Yes. And not I'm so glad you said that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Good. Yeah. Because it's so true, because everything is a lesson. But Clint - Mic: Which again, it highlights the nuance of things. Yes, there are lessons in everything. That doesn't mean it was only a lesson. It could also mean you fucked up and you gotta own that. But here's the lesson I can learn from that. And not just. Yeah. Good. Thank you. Johnna - Mic: being able to evaluate that lesson from a space of self-awareness and allowing yourself to feel the emotions attached to it because emotions are guideposts, right? And working through it and then taking the lesson into the future and going, okay, not doing that again or yay, that worked out good. Clint - Mic: Being able to evaluate that lesson from a space of self-awareness and allowing yourself to feel the emotions attached to it because emotions are guideposts, right? And working through it and then taking the lesson into the future and going, okay, not doing that again. yay, that works. Johnna - Mic: of emotions, emotional detachment. This one is just like, ⁓ I'm above all of this. Clint - Mic: Speaking of emotions, emotional detachment. This one is just like, ⁓ I'm above all of this. I don't participate in drama. That's a big one. don't like drama. I'm not a drama person, which, okay, you know, if you have to say that a million times a day. ⁓ Johnna - Mic: I don't participate in drama. That's a big one. Yeah. I don't, don't, I don't. Which, okay, you if you have to say- Life is drama. Yeah. Tell me you're into drama without Deli Rear into drama by saying I'm not involved in drama. But life is dramatic. mean, honestly, guys, we're on a ball flying through the universe with a bunch of other people. Why are we here? What are we doing? We're trying to deal with all this stuff. It's dramatic. It just is. Clint - Mic: Mm-hmm. It's dramatic. It just is. It's a dramatic experience. And I guess, you know, maybe this is ⁓ a conversation for a different time, but even just defining the concept of drama. Johnna - Mic: It's a dramatic experience. ⁓ Yeah. Clint - Mic: You know, what is that? Because there's the version of it like you're talking about, that life, you know, and then there's the version of somebody sat at the wrong seat, you know, when you're all going out to dinner and I usually sit there and somebody else sat there and now there's drama. I said dinner, but yes. Now what do we do with, know, ⁓ we gotta, you know what I mean? So, but. Johnna - Mic: Yeah. And then there's the version of somebody sat at the wrong seat, you know, when you're all going out to dinner and I usually sit there and somebody else sat there. Are about church right now? I said dinner, but yes. Now what do we do with, you know, the whole, we got to tell them, you know what I mean? But really it's just an avoidant strategy. You're avoiding connection. You're avoiding vulnerability. Or you're inflating your ego to the point where it's like, just am so enlightened and blah, blah that I don't mingle with the low levels. Clint - Mic: which takes us kind of to the last part of what we're talking about here, which I think is both the ⁓ most glaring but also easiest one to get sucked into, I would say, the overanalyze, ⁓ I can't even say that word. Intellectualizing, over-intellectualizing spiritual ideas. Basically, using the big words. Johnna - Mic: I think is both the most glaring but also easiest one to get sucked into. I would say the overanalyze actually until I can't even say that word. Say it because I can't say it either. Intellectualizing. Yeah. Basically using the big words. Uh huh. And it just especially if you're if you don't Clint - Mic: And it just, especially if you don't have the experience and knowledge on your own, if you're just starting out or seeking new information, and people have all the phrases and all the words and they can speak eloquently about it, it's very easy to get sucked into it. Johnna - Mic: have the experience and knowledge on your own, you if you're just starting out or seeking new information and people have all the phrases and all the words and they can speak eloquently about it. It's very easy to get sucked into it, you know, because it's like, this person, this person knows things that I don't so clearly they've studied it, they're knowledgeable, whatever. When Clint - Mic: You know because it's like ⁓ this person this person knows things that I don't so clearly they've studied it that you know, They're knowledgeable whatever when in Reality, once you get a little bit deeper. It's like ⁓ no, they're full of shit They just memorized scripts Johnna - Mic: in reality, once you get a little bit deeper, it's like, ⁓ no, they're full of shit. Totally. Just memorize the script. Yeah, it's it's like Christian ease, or any kind of religion where it's like, I know all the blah, blah, blah talk, but where the rubber meets the road is how you walk it out. Right. It is embodiment. Right. So if if you're Clint - Mic: Where the rubber meets the road is how you walk it out. It is embodiment. So if your guru is... Johnna - Mic: guru is like, ⁓ awakening energy. And that's all they can talk about. And they're not talking about, yeah, I got effing pissed because blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You know, that would be a red flag. If they're just speaking in this, you know, the people who just sit there and they're like this all the time, like on Instagram, they're like, it's like, dude. Clint - Mic: they can talk about and they're not talking about, yeah, I got effing pissed because. you know, that would be a red flag. If they're just speaking in this, you know, the people. Like, dude, that is not the... Johnna - Mic: That is not the human experience. It's not. And what it does is it makes the person who is trying so hard feel like, this is what I need to ascend to is someone who's just wrapped in fucking linen all the time sitting on a mountain. Just look at me. I've just ascended the entire human population. Clint - Mic: Like ⁓ Johnna - Mic: And it really is just spiritual ego wrapped in spirituality. You see this in religion and Christianity with, ⁓ all you people are going to burn in hell that I've got the first class ticket. It's the same shit repackaged for a different group of people. Honestly, that's just ⁓ anyway. So go ahead. I just got on a tangent. Now I need to drink some coffee. Clint - Mic: group of That's okay I was just gonna dabble or sprinkle in a little bit of fitness stuff in this realm as well because you see this in the fitness world a lot where people have all the buzzwords and all the You know all the words that most people don't know all the muscles and and and that kind of stuff But then and they can speak that all day, but then if you go to them and like okay if I do this movement it kind Johnna - Mic: dabble or sprinkle in a little bit of fitness stuff in this realm as well. Because you see this in the fitness world a lot where people have all the buzzwords and all the, you know, all the words that most people don't know, all the muscles and that kind of stuff. But then, and they can speak that all day. But then if you go to them and like, okay, if I do this movement, it kind of hurts here. What should I do about that? Clint - Mic: of hurts here, what should I do about that? Then they just go into their big diatribe and can't just say, well, let's see how you're moving. Let's fix you or let's make some adjustments on you specifically. Right, but it's just, I guess my point is if the reaction to an individual's circumstances are just more of the same buzzword bullshit, Johnna - Mic: then they just go into their big diatribe and can't just say, well, let's see how you're moving. Let's fix you or let's make some adjustments on you. Yeah, or maybe your body mechanics are different. Maybe you have a short femur and you can't squat like that. But it's just, I guess my point is if the reaction to an individual's circumstances are just more of the same buzzword bullshit, Clint - Mic: then there's probably, you know, it's in the fitness world, but in every world, it's a lot of spiritual bypassing and they potentially don't really know what they're talking about and they just know how to regurgitate information. Johnna - Mic: then there's probably, you know, it's in the fitness world, but in every world, it's, it's a lot of spiritual bypassing and they potentially don't really know what they're talking about and they just know how to regurgitate information. Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, it's about compassion and love, right? And so I don't care what we're talking about. I don't care if we're talking about fitness. I don't care if we're talking about the spiritual community or the religious community. If people are not compassionate and walking in love, it's fake. That's just what it is. anyway, let's talk about how a spiritual bypassing shows up in relationships. Go for it, sir. Well, I think you kind of just hit on exactly what it is because it ends up being what you're saying of, hey, instead of just having love and compassion for somebody, it can be like, well, you know, Clint - Mic: Well, I think you kind of just hit on exactly what it is because it ends up being what you're saying of, ⁓ instead of just having love and compassion for somebody, it can be like, well, you you're the one in charge. You're manifesting this for yourself. You're choosing this reality instead of like seeking to understand another Stephen Covey thing. Stuff is in my head for some reason. Johnna - Mic: You're the one in charge. You're manifesting this for yourself. You're using this reality instead of like seeking to understand. know, Stephen Covey thing that's in my head for some reason. It just is like, you're clearly you're clearly not doing the work. You're clearly not ascended. So this is the this you're reaping what you're selling. Yeah, which you do. That that is what you do. But, know, in Clint - Mic: just is like, well, you're clearly, you're clearly not doing the work. You're clearly not ascended. So this is the, this, you're reaping what you're sowing essentially. Johnna - Mic: or sorry, the just be positive, right? Or your vibration is low. What you're doing is, first of all, you're making that person feel like crap. But you're also teaching them to bypass their emotions. Can we as humans start listening to the people in our circle that choose you listener? Clint - Mic: Just speak. What you're doing is, first of all, you're making that person feel like crap, but you're also teaching them to bypass their emotions. Can we as humans start listening to the people in our circle that choose you, listener, to be vulnerable with? Can you just hear them? Is there any way we can just hear them and go, Johnna - Mic: to be vulnerable with? Can you just hear them? Is there any way we can just hear them and go, gosh, my heart just aches for you. I don't have the words to say, but I'm not going to sit here and be like, well, you just need to raise your frequency and just be positive, think positive, live, laugh, love, ⁓ or some random scripture verse. It's nauseating because it totally is like, ⁓ Clint - Mic: My heart just aches for you. I don't have the words to say, but I'm not gonna sit here and be like, well, you just need to raise your frequency, just be positive, think positive, live, love. Because it totally is like... Johnna - Mic: It just bypasses the human emotion. It is okay to be angry and frustrated. now how you deal with that is next level, right? But it's okay to feel those feelings. Clint - Mic: It just bypasses the human emotion. It is okay to be angry and frustrated and now how you deal with that is next level, right? But it's okay to feel those feelings. Which kind of gets us into the next thing with how it shows up in personal growth. And it's a lot of suppression of that. Feeling like, you know, okay, I just need to... Johnna - Mic: shows up in personal growth and it's a lot of suppression of that feeling like you know okay I just need to I need to go meditate I need to you know read another spiritual book I need to talk to my guru and and ⁓ it's a suppression of those things of the anger that you feel about a certain thing or the grief or the unresolved trauma or all those things Clint - Mic: I need to go meditate. need to read another spiritual book. I need to talk to my guru. ⁓ It's a suppression of those things, of the anger that you feel about a certain thing or the grief or the unresolved trauma or all those things. Rather than dealing with those things, you go and you look for the mask or the band-aid or the quick fix that gives you the shot of dopamine, like, ⁓ no, I am good now, okay. Except you didn't actually deal with what that was. Johnna - Mic: rather than dealing with those things, you go and you look for the mask or the band-aid or the quick fix that gives you the shot of dopamine. Like, ⁓ no, I am good now. Except you didn't actually deal with what that was. Right. Yeah. So healthy spirituality versus spiritual bypassing. Healthy spiritual growth actually includes emotional work. Clint - Mic: versus. actually includes emotional part. What? Super fun. ⁓ Not the avoidance of it. And it can be really ugly. Anger, grief, confusion, vulnerability, and accountability. And it can be bursts of screaming. It can be bursts of punching someone. I know that I have, you know. Johnna - Mic: Yay, it's super fun. Not the avoidance of it. And it can be really ugly. Anger, grief, confusion, vulnerability and accountability. And it can be bursts of screaming. It can be bursts of punching someone. I know that I have, you know, punched Clint. Just thank you. Not like. I was OK with it. Yeah, I. Clint - Mic: It was I was I was okay with it ⁓ Johnna - Mic: You know, you just, ⁓ it's not pretty. It's just not pretty. ⁓ Human recognizing these emotions are just part of the process. And if you squish them down, they manifest in other ways. Disease is a huge thing. mean, fibromyalgia now is being linked to unprocessed female Clint - Mic: And if you squish them down, they manifest in other ways. Disease is a huge thing. Fibromyalgia now is being linked to unprocessed female emotion. Stuff being squished down massively. And so it's so important to get this rage out, women. And I'm speaking... Johnna - Mic: Emotion. Stuff being squished down massively. And so it's so important to get this rage out women. And I'm speaking for women right now because there's a lot of women rage going on. But make sure you're processing these things and however they need to get out. Try not to hurt someone like when I punched Clint in the stomach. ⁓ But they need to escape. Yeah. Clint - Mic: Make sure you're processing these things and however they need to get out. Try not to hurt someone like when I punch they need to escape. Yeah, and be dealt with. Escape and understood and processed and that's the way that you can move forward with them. Yeah, and ask questions, right? Like, why am I? Johnna - Mic: and understood and processed and that's the way that you can move forward with them. Yeah, and ask questions, right? Like, why am I angry? What is this coming from? Why am why is there confusion in this? Ask yourself, we get so, you know, caught up in asking everyone else about everything you on this journey. It is a journey to self. It's not the journey to Clint - Mic: It is a journey to self. It's not the journey to asking my spiritual advisor, asking my energy worker. Yes, those tools are helpful, but at the end of the day, it's about going inward. Inward. Stop reaching for the outward stuff. Yeah, I completely agree. Johnna - Mic: asking my spiritual advisor, asking my energy worker. Yes, those tools are helpful, but at the end of the day, it's about going inward, inward, stop reaching for the outward stuff. Yeah, I completely agree. Do you want to get in? Clint - Mic: Do you want to get into a little bit more of the backstory of how we got here now that we kind of understand what spiritual bypassing is? Okay, I'm skipping around on our outline a little Johnna - Mic: Yeah, go for it. That is okay. I don't care. It's no big deal. Clint - Mic: It really, I mean, there's a lot of different. ⁓ situations I guess that people would probably or that could say where things came from. But one of the big areas that this whole mindset came in was with the self-help boom. Starting in the 70s, know, maybe a little before, but really the late 1900s where it was, it became kind of in vogue, right, for the self-help idea and Johnna - Mic: where things came from but one of the big areas that this whole mindset came in was with the self-help boom. Yeah. in the 70s maybe a little before but really the the late 1900s where it was it became kind of in vogue right for the self-help idea and as with so many other things Clint - Mic: as with so many other things, really, took a really good idea and essentially dumbed it down and made it easy for everybody. That was the goal. It's like, okay, this. Johnna - Mic: it really it took a really good idea and essentially dumbed it down and made it easy for Everybody yeah, that was the goal. Yeah, okay this this monk or this you know, whatever different religion or philosophical Actual guru in the real sense of the term has spent Clint - Mic: this monk or this, you know, whatever different religion or philosophical actual guru in the real sense of the term has spent 50 years in this practice developing it within themselves and everything. Now you can do it in five minutes. Yeah, which is really what it was. And and so there was a lot of a lot of pulling from that stuff of Johnna - Mic: 50 years in this practice developing it within themselves and everything. Now you can do it in five minutes. Yeah. Yeah. Really what it was. Yeah. And so there was a lot of a lot of pulling from that stuff of, of, here's all this boiled down into one simple phrase, change your thought, change your life. Yeah. Everything is energy. Focus on the positive and Clint - Mic: of, okay, here's all this boiled down into one simple phrase. Change your thought, change your life. Everything is energy, focus on the positive. And as if that would be a thing then that could put you in the same place as somebody who's done deep internal work their entire lives. Johnna - Mic: as if that would be a thing then that could put you in the same place as somebody who's done deep internal work their entire lives. And most people who are walking in the real authentic deep internal work aren't wanting to be worshiped as gurus. They don't. They're going to sit with you just like Yeshua sat with the people. They're going to hang out with the losers that society says are losers. Clint - Mic: Deepak Chopra ⁓ Johnna - Mic: They're not going to want to be, ⁓ my goodness, look at it's deep. What's the guy who just was attached to the Epstein files? Deepak Chopra. Yeah. ⁓ my goodness. You're just so, you know what I mean? They don't want that. It's more like, no, I'm, I'm going to sit down here with the people that are being spat on because they've got the, they have it internally. They get it. So Clint - Mic: Spout on they've got the they have it So as the wellness industry grew into a multi-billion dollar market Just like McDonald's You get the drive-through version of spiritual awakening which is retreats courses coaching programs supplements manifestation workshops Which I am NOT opposed Johnna - Mic: As the wellness industry grew into a multi billion dollar market, just like McDonald's, you get the drive through version of spiritual awakening, which is retreats, courses, coaching programs, supplements, manifestation workshops, which I am not opposed to these things, but you need to be very discerning when you attach yourself to these things. Clint - Mic: to these things. But you need to be very discerning when you attach yourself to these things with the person in charge. Because I know a lot of people that do these things that are lovely. And it's great to be part of the community. Johnna - Mic: with the person in charge because I know a lot of people that do these things that are lovely and it's great to be part of the community. But if they're saying that you need me the guru to heal yourself, ⁓ you know, that's a red flag. Clint - Mic: But if they're saying that you need me, the guru, to heal yourself, you know, that's a red flag. And you need me, the guru, to heal you and pay me five grand and come to Costa Rica for a week and then you'll be fixed. Then I will have healed you. Yeah, right. And then when that doesn't happen, then you're like, what's wrong with me? Like when I didn't speak in tongues. Johnna - Mic: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Right. And then when that doesn't happen, then you're like, what's wrong with me? Like when I didn't speak in tongues at the Pentecostal, whatever, when I was 12 and it was like, oh, something's wrong with you. You didn't get your tongues. And I'm sitting there looking at all these people literally going, this is the fakest thing I've ever faken seen. So you know what I mean? And I was like 10 or 11. Clint - Mic: Literally going this is the fakest thing I've ever faken seen. You know what I mean? It was like 10 or 11. anyway, the messaging often shifted from self inquiry to quick transformation. Instant abundance, perfect health, effortless happiness. Johnna - Mic: So anyway, the messaging often shifted from self inquiry to quick transformation, instant abundance, perfect health, effortless happiness, spiritual awakening right away without going into the deepest, darkest parts of your soul. Right. And a lot of people go up onto it and I've globbed on to things like that as well. mean, not Clint - Mic: spiritual awakening right away without going into the deepest darkest parts of your soul. Right? And a lot of people go out onto it and I've logged on to things like that as well. mean not going to retreats and stuff but like ⁓ my gosh if I read you know the book the secret then I'm gonna be able to manifest anything I want and what that brought. Johnna - Mic: going to retreats and stuff. like, ⁓ my gosh, if I read, you know, the book, the secret, then I'm going to be able to manifest anything I want. And what that brought was, no, you're actually going to go really into some dark places. So anyway, Clint - Mic: Mm-hmm. Well, thank you for bringing the secret up because ⁓ been a free longtime listeners ⁓ did and for new listeners, you can go back and check it out. We did a podcast. I don't know ⁓ months ago about the secret ⁓ the law of attraction and manifestation and what that looks like ⁓ ⁓ Johnna - Mic: well, thank you for bringing the secret up because that's been a free long time listeners. Yeah, we did. And new listeners, you can go back and check it We did a podcast, I don't know, several. I don't even know when about the secret. Yeah. And the law of attraction and manifestation. Yeah. And what that looks like. And it might be valuable for us to go back and listen to it because I it would make me cringe because I talk about spiritual bypassing, you know. Right. It just it really now looking. Clint - Mic: it might be valuable for us to go back and listen to it because it would make me cringe. Yeah. Mm-hmm, right. just it really Now looking at it right now with the lenses that I have, it highlights the commercialization of this whole process. Manifesting not being, okay, I need a goal or something and here's how I'm gonna work to get to it and here's the things that I'm gonna do and all that stuff. was just like, no, just, I mean the one that sticks with me in that, and I just gotta bring this up because all the time, the kid who thought, oh, I'm gonna get free Johnna - Mic: It highlights the commercialization of this whole process. Manifesting not being, ⁓ okay, I need a goal or something and here's how I'm gonna work to get to it and here's the things that I'm gonna do and all that stuff. It was just like, no, just. I mean, the one that sticks with me in that, and I just got to bring this up because all the time, the kid who, you know, thought, ⁓ I'm going to get free passes or, you know, cut in line passes to Disney World. And then the next day, his family got picked. And so he got the cut in line passes to Disney World because he manifested it. Talk about an abuse of the the. Philosophy of manifestation. Clint - Mic: passes or know, cut and line passes to Disney World. And then the next day, his family got picked. And so he got the cut and line passes to Disney World because he manifested it. Talk about an abuse of the philosophy of manifestation. And why do you say that? Because you have a follow up to that. I do? Yeah. Johnna - Mic: And why do you say that? Because you have a follow up to that. Right. Yeah. Remember when you were like, because I know for a fact that there were so say that. is what I said at the time and even more firmly believe now. Every little kid is like a 10 year old kid. Every kid is at that hotel the night before was thinking, I want those tickets, those glasses to get to the front of the line. Yeah. And so of the thousands of kids. Clint - Mic: ⁓ yeah, yeah Right. Yeah, which is what I said at the time and even more firmly believe now Every little kid it was like a 10 year old kid every kid is at that hotel the night before was thinking I want those ticket those passes to cut to the front of the line and so of the thousands of kids that were all having this same thought one kid got it, but the other ones didn't and so again, it's like ⁓ Johnna - Mic: that we're all having the same thought. One kid got it, but the other ones didn't. And so again, it's like, oh, you got a bug in your hair. By your right cheek. Right cheek. Right there. Clint - Mic: You got a bug in your hair. By your right cheek. Right cheek? Right there. Oh. Johnna - Mic: ⁓ my gosh. Thank you. Back to the secret. It just makes a point that you've talked about before of if those kids had the knowledge that, no, you know, with the secret of all you have to do is manifest this. If basically what it makes it sound like is Clint - Mic: Anyway, yeah. It just makes a point that you've talked about before of if those kids Had the knowledge that ⁓ no, you know with the secret of all you have to do is manifest this if Basically what it makes it sound like is if you're a good person and you've done the right things and you Manifest or you think about something it's gonna come true. If it doesn't come true. Well, you fucked up somewhere ⁓ Johnna - Mic: If you're a good person and you've done the right things and you manifest or you think about something, it's going to come true. If it doesn't come true, well, you fucked up. Yeah, you're broken. It's a you're broken wave. And mind you, there's nuance to this because I, I do believe in manifestation and good vibes and all of these things. But the way it's packaged is just Clint - Mic: I do believe in manifestation and good vibes and all of these things, but the way it's packaged is just, it's like a McDonald's drive-through. It's such a great analogy. All you have to do is think of thoughts. Johnna - Mic: It's like a McDonald's drive-through. It's like all you have to do is think good thoughts and then your whole this is going to change. And a lot of things do change. It's very slow. Just like when you're trying to change your meat suit and you have to go in to go out. And those are the things that a lot of the, the, ⁓ you know, the secret or Clint - Mic: It's very slow, just like when you're trying to change your meat suit. And you have to go in to go out. And those are the things that a lot of the, you know, the secret or whoever these people are, a Johnna - Mic: whoever these people are, law of attraction people ⁓ miss. Because I don't remember one time the lady who wrote the secret go, yeah, you can manifest shit, but guess what? You got to go deep within yourself and deal with all your effing issues and clear out the vessel so that you can be a pure vessel for goodness to flow through. Never once heard her say that. And it may take years, by the way. Clint - Mic: You can manifest ship and guess what you got to go deep within yourself and deal with all your f-ing issues and clear out the vessel so that you can be a pure vessel for goodness to flow through Never once heard her say that and it may take years by the way may take years and probably 18 dark nights of the soul and you know But then after that you'll get your Johnna - Mic: may take years and probably 18 dark nights of the soul. you know, ⁓ but then after that, you'll get your Disneyland tickets. It's just like, anyway, that one just really. Clint - Mic: Disneyland tickets. That one just it really it really rubs me the wrong way because it just completely discounts what you're talking about as far as doing that doing that inner work doing that going through the mock of dealing with whatever you've got to deal with. Like, ⁓ no, idiot, you just said the wrong mantra. Say the mantra this way and now you. Johnna - Mic: going. ⁓ how much of that and I got sucked into that like, ⁓ if you want this, say this mantra and finally, I got to a point last year I'm like, I'm not fucking listening to anyone. I'm going to say my own things and I talked about this how, you know, I did all the mantras, I did all the things. And really, it was just like, okay, what's wrong? What's wrong with me? Something's wrong with me. I'm not this enough. I'm not that enough. I'm not this enough. And then I have this epiphany of well, John, you know, you've had a prayer life your entire life. Why don't you just and it has worked my entire life. Why do why do we why don't we stop doing what home slice is telling me to do on the internet and we do what has always worked for you. That's higher self. John, I talking to current self, John. Clint - Mic: is telling me to do on the internet and we do what has always worked for you. That's higher self-jhana talking to current self-jhana and I started doing that again because that's my language to source is different from anyone else's just like our fingerprints, right? All different. And so when I started doing that connecting to myself then it started to ⁓ Johnna - Mic: And I started doing that again, because that's my language to source is different from anyone else's, just like our fingerprints, right? All different. And so when I started doing that, connecting to myself, then it started to, ⁓ you know, whatever, manifest, right? Yeah. And the way it's man, I know we're kind of getting off on a manifestation. Clint - Mic: Yeah, and and the way it's man I know we're kind of getting off on a manifestation tangent here, but And an indicator for me Johnna - Mic: Well, it's so huge right now. feel like it's just I think it's important, honestly. Clint - Mic: Where, because I'm certainly not saying that I still don't have some spiritual bypassing and you know, I mean, I think we all do. We've established that from the beginning, but when you start to move away from it a little bit and recognize it and address it, what I've found, the manifestation, how the manifestation manifests, Johnna - Mic: Certainly not saying that I still don't have some spiritual bypassing. Oh, you know, I same I think we all do we've established. Yeah But when you start to move away from it little bit and recognize it and address it what I found the manifestation how the manifestation manifests is more in direction so rather than Clint - Mic: is more in direction. So rather than, know, I wanna manifest a million dollar home. So I'm gonna sit here and think about it and then I'll get a million dollar home. It's, okay, here's a step. What if, you know, what if you redirected this money to... Johnna - Mic: you I want to manifest a million dollar home. So I'm going to sit here and think about it and then I'll get a million dollar home. It's okay. Here's a step. What if, know, what if you redirected this money to do a different thing? What if you hadn't built this offering? Meaning like, you know, a program or something, or what if you took care of this in your life? Clint - Mic: to do a different thing. What if you had built this offering, ⁓ meaning like a ⁓ program or something, or what if you took care of this in your life to see where that would lead because that's gonna free up a lot of mental space to be able to do something else. So it's not just I thought about some shit and I got the shit. It's no, here's the steps. Here's the steps because now you have the internal capacity Johnna - Mic: Right. see where that would lead because that's going to free up a lot of mental space to be able to do something else. So it's not just I thought about some shit and I got the shit. Yeah. It's practical steps. Here's the steps. Yeah. Here's the steps because now you have the internal capacity to be able to do that. Yeah. Because you're not just trying to. Clint - Mic: to be able to do that because you're not just trying to, no, everything's sweet, gimme my house. Johnna - Mic: No, everything's sweet. Give me my house. Yeah, there is action, you know, and that is something that the drive the McDonald's drive through manifestation community doesn't talk about. They want you to make the vision boards and the affirmations and the visualizations. But sitting down and building skills and planning financially or any kind of accountability is like, ⁓ no, no, no, no. So I think a combination of the two. Clint - Mic: sitting down and building skills and planning financially or any kind of accountability is like, ⁓ no, no, no, no. So I think a combination of the two work very well because I totally believe in visualization of things that I want, right? Or the way I want to see my life. We're the creators of our lives, yes. Johnna - Mic: work very well because I totally believe in visualization of things that I want, right? Or the way I want to see my life. Were the creators of our lives? Yes. But creation doesn't happen by just sitting there and doing the secret and then just laying in bed like, okay, I am visualizing, you know, whatever. Clint - Mic: But creation doesn't happen by just sitting there and doing the secret and then just laying in bed like, okay, I am visualizing, you know, whatever. And then it just appears, there's action. it's like breadcrumbs, right? Like, I'm glad that you brought that up because it's Johnna - Mic: And then it just appears there's action. So it's like breadcrumbs, right? Like I'm, I'm glad that you brought that up because that's super important that directions that you're supposed to go. Okay. Get us back on track. know. Right. So ignoring systemic or real, real world factors. This is another thing that happens. And I think that, um, you know, this is applicable to right now, um, manifestation. Clint - Mic: Yeah. Get us back on track. I know, right? So ignoring systemic or real... Johnna - Mic: teaching suggests that all outcomes are personal creations, right? And that can ignore economic conditions, social structures, health realities, or life circumstances. Now, I do know people who have, you know, healed themselves, whatever. ⁓ But they took actionable steps. So that's really what we need to hit home here is the actionable steps on top of Clint - Mic: But they took actionable steps. So that's really what we need to hit home here, is the actionable steps on. Johnna - Mic: ⁓ having that mental direction. ⁓ I think, yeah, I mean, I totally agree. I don't know. I think we probably hit. Clint - Mic: that mental direction, I think, yeah, I mean, I totally agree. I don't know, I think we've probably hit home pretty good about the concepts of higher frequency, toxic positivity, all those things. And I hope we've illustrated the nuance enough. Johnna - Mic: of higher frequency, toxic positivity, all those things. And I hope we've ⁓ illustrated the nuance enough because we're not saying that it's a bad thing to be positive. No, not at all. It's fantastic. And it does help even in a, like just an example, because John always says I never have. Clint - Mic: because we're not saying that it's a bad thing to be positive. know, it's fantastic and it does help even in a, like just an example, because John always says I never have my personal examples, so here's a personal example. ⁓ My grandma passed away. Johnna - Mic: So here's a personal example. I don't always say that. My grandma passed away. Clint - Mic: month ago now or a couple months ago or something and at the funeral my family my immediate family tends to do really well with finding Johnna - Mic: and at the funeral, my family, my immediate family tends to do really well with finding, I don't wanna say joy, but some sort of positivity in negative situations. So there was still so many opportunities for me and my son and my brothers to... Clint - Mic: I don't want to say joy, but some sort of positivity in negative situations. So there was still so many opportunities for me and my son and my brothers to ⁓ find some humor or find some levity or find some positivity at her funeral. Johnna - Mic: find some humor or find some levity or find some positivity at her funeral. And that wasn't making any sort of, it wasn't making light of the funeral. It wasn't downplaying sadness and grief for. ⁓ Clint - Mic: And that wasn't making any sort of, it wasn't making light of the funeral. It wasn't downplaying sadness and grief for, ⁓ for, you know, losing somebody because that still existed. So it wasn't, it wasn't the denial of those feelings. It was taking those feelings and being able to own them and mold them and shape them into something that could still be positive. Johnna - Mic: for losing somebody because that still existed. So it wasn't the denial of those feelings. It was taking those feelings and being able to own them and mold them and shape them into something that could still be positive. So I think that's the key, maybe one of the fruits from Clint - Mic: So I think that's the key. One of the, maybe one of the fruits from avoiding spiritual bypassing, I guess, or doing the inner work to get to a certain place is you can make that transition. Johnna - Mic: avoiding spiritual bypassing, guess, or doing the inner work to get to a certain place is, is you can make that transition. ⁓ absolutely. So I hope that this was helpful for you listeners, because it was helpful for me. Like as I, as we dove into this and really got into our notes and we were discussing it, you know, it's like, wow, these are some things that I still struggle with. I still struggle. have some kind of guilt with negative emotions and I'm not sure why. Clint - Mic: As we dove into this and really got into our notes and we were discussing it, you know, it's like, wow, these are some things that I still struggle with. I still struggle. I have some kind of guilt with negative emotions. Johnna - Mic: I don't know what the genesis of that is. Now that I've spoken it out loud, I'm going to have some kind of epiphany that's going to me cry for three days. But anyway, I hope that that was helpful, right? And that you can dive deep into yourself, right? This is like the core message of every podcast. Turns out everything is within and it's okay to have negative emotions. All right. They are guideposts. And when you have those negative emotions, go deep. Clint - Mic: Here we go. And that you can dive deep into yourself, right? This is like the core message of every podcast. Turns out everything is within. And it's okay to have negative emotions, all right? They are... Johnna - Mic: and see where they come from and then ask for the tools to resolve those things. Ask yourself, ask Source. Clint - Mic: Such a key point right there. Ask for the tools for resolution, not for masking. Not to make you feel better, not to just get through that, I need to get through this and then things will be okay. No, you have to work your way through it. And that's the tools, whatever tools work for you, those are the tools that you can use. Johnna - Mic: Yeah. Not to make you feel better, not to just get through that. need to get through this and then things will be OK. No, you have to work your way through it. You do. That's the tools, whatever tools work for you. Those are the tools that you can use. And remember, when you're in the thick of that, every storm runs out of rain. All right. So thank you so much for listening. I hope it was helpful. And we'll talk to you soon. Yeah. Clint - Mic: and we'll talk to you soon. Thank you. Johnna - Mic: Thank you.