Latest / Mortgage Marketing Radio / Ep #81: Tim Braheem on Going from Conversion to Connection

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Ep #81: Tim Braheem on Going from Conversion to Connection · Mortgage Marketing Radio

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In today's highly competitive mortgage industry, building profitable relationships with
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the real estate agents is essential for success.
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Mortgage Marketing Radio Brought to you by the Mortgage Marketing Institute,
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your number one source for truth in mortgage marketing.
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Hey listeners, Jeff Zimberg, your humble host for this session of Mortgage Marketing
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Radio.
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Hope you are well.
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And by saying that, I mean that.
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It's not too often I take time to hopefully connect with you and allow you to understand
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how much I appreciate you, the listener of the audience.
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You know, I just checked statistics my podcast statistics the other day and it showed
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me that we are averaging over 7,600 downloads a month right now and we've surpassed well
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over 50,000 total lifetime downloads.
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And all I can say is wow, I appreciate that.
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Thank you.
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This started as a labor of love.
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This started as a passion project as a way to bring ideas and inspiration and a road map
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and help a helping hand for those of us fellow mortgage loan originators out in the streets
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doing our best to hopefully slugging it out right to try and build a business around
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our life that we can truly enjoy.
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And so I just want to take a moment to acknowledge you and I'm thankful for that and grateful
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for you and perhaps I'm feeling a little bit extra connected to that because of my guest
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on this session of Mortgage Marketing Radio.
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It's hard to do an intro for this person.
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I'll have to say, so let's just get right into it.
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Shawi, my friend and mentor, especially guest Tim Brahim, many of you probably know of
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Tim.
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We're now at the various events and conferences, speaking and training and coaching, his new
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company, Performance Experts, which you'll hear a little bit about.
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But look, Tim Brahim is here as one of my favorite people, not just in the mortgage industry,
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but I think one of my favorite people just overall that I've had the, I guess the privilege
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of knowing on some level, you ever been around somebody, whether it's even directly in
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person or just by hearing them or seeing them somewhere and they make you feel better.
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They make you understand the truth about what's real.
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Well, I'm sorry if it sounds cheesy or whatever, but that's that's how I feel whenever I
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get a chance to see, listen here, speak with Tim Brahim because Tim Brahim for me is all
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about authenticity.
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And if you're looking for the roadmap in your business to have an authentic, be true
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to yourself business, one that you enjoy, one that's fun, one that you look forward
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to going to every day, one in which you get to interact with and engage and build really
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meaningful relationships and partnerships with both real estate agents and anybody else you
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would want to build those relationships with financial planners, CPAs, life insurance agents.
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I tell you, that's one of the key things that stands out for me whenever I have a chance
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to talk to Tim and listen to Tim is the ability to actually have that kind of business and
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get there.
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I mean, listen, that all sounds well and good, but don't get me wrong, Tim is also a wildly
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successful entrepreneur and business professional.
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I mean, the quick background around Tim because I know we've got some folks listening that
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may not be familiar with Tim because he got in the mortgage business in 1995 and some of
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you all were just wet behind the years then, right?
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So in 1995, after a couple of years as an originator, he decided to launch his own company,
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first-rate financial up in Ventura County, California, which quickly became one of the top
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mortgage brokerage companies in the industry in terms of annual production.
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From 1997 to 2004, Tim was consistently ranked among the top 50 loan officers in the
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country and in 2004, at his peak year in terms of units and volume, doing an astounding
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676 loans for over 236 million in volume.
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That at the time ranked him number 26 in the US out of 400,000 loan officers.
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And because of Tim's achievements for production as a mortgage originator, mortgage originator
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magazine inducted him into their Hall of Fame.
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About only seven loan officers have been ever inducted into the Hall of Fame, so that's
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a pretty significant accomplishment.
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So alone, the fact of doing 676 loans, and then to follow Tim's career out, he became
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the co-founder of Loan Toolbox, which was in its day one of the greatest online resources
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for training, tools, support, coaching to help us all get better and become more effective,
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more profitable mortgage originators.
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It had about 11,000 members and was ranked in the Inc. 500 list as one of the fastest growing
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companies in the country.
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I mean, the resume goes on, right?
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So nowadays, Tim is the CEO and founder of Performance Experts.
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He's the head coach over there and Tim is, once again, impacting lives, shaping people's
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futures, helping people to really live a life that they thought perhaps once was impossible.
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Live a life of intentionality and designing a life, as I said, that you really enjoy
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that has significance and impact in your family life, your personal life, but in your business
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as well.
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And man, it just feels good to be in that place.
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And Tim Bredeem is one of those few people that can help you get there.
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So the inspiration for having Tim on today was his presentation at the mortgage mastermind
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summit in Vegas, where he talked about focusing on connection versus conversion.
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And that's one of the themes we talk about here, but we talk about many, many other things
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as well, that is all related to, I think, if you're looking for that road map, the
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lamp light at your feet, that guide you along the way for how do you truly have a quote
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successful mortgage origination business, not just a business, but a career.
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And one that is obviously far beyond just transactional, but as I keep referring to one
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that dammit you love, right?
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And you have a good time doing, and you look forward to.
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And to this podcast, more than once, take notes, really listen to where Tim's coming
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from, because it's a place that not most people come from when when you usually hear people
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describing, you know, how to become a successful mortgage originator.
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So I am thrilled to bring Tim here, obviously, as you can tell, and I'm thrilled to hear
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your feedback on today's episode, obviously reach out and connect to Tim.
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His website links will be in the show notes, but if you want to learn more about Tim,
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you can go to performance-experts.com, he's actually got a new referral partner success
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system that you'll hear about on today's episode, and you can find that over on his website
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over there, which is a comprehensive online training system that teaches you Tim's step-by-step
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proven strategies to allow you to track real estate agents, financial planners, CPAs, etc.
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And so that's a really awesome system of deep dive with all kinds of videos and training
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and exercises and, you know, scripts and key points and stuff, so if you're inspired,
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check that out.
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Once again, the link will be in the show notes, performance-experts.com.
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That said, without further ado, please welcome my special guest, Tim Braheem.
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Let's get into this week's show.
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Hey Tim, welcome to the show.
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Hey, thanks for having me, Jeff, nice to be with you.
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It is nice to have you, I was going to say, finally, you wouldn't know that, but, you
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know, you've been on my radar for some time to be on the podcast, so I'm very grateful
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for it.
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And I know my listeners will be as well.
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And to kind of set up our conversation, like you and I talked to you the other day,
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in having witness thing you speak at Mastermind again for, I don't know, probably the third
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year in a row.
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And as I had said then, I'll say it now, always a highlight to hear you speak, because
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I think one of the things that stands out differently about you, well, I mean, one is
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that you're different, but, you know, and I think what I mean by that is your approach
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is different.
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Your thinking is different, and I don't know if you see that, not just, you know, I don't
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want to say specifically for Mastermind, but in the conversations you see happening out
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there in the mortgage space, there's a lot of people focused on, you know, transaction
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and conversion, and they seem to be very disorganized and not intentional about how they're building
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their business and going about their day.
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And to set you up on this, you know, that's what I see that you bring to the table differently,
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is that you are very clear and intentional and structured and actually have a plan.
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But you don't overlook the fact that we still have a job to do, and that is to insulate
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somebody, make an impact in somebody through being a partnership or closing alone, and
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then really building relationships.
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So, wanted to set that up and ask you, was it always like that for you?
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Yeah, thanks for that.
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You said a lot, and I have a lot to say in response, so, you know, mind, I'll go, I mean,
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because you just bring up so many important points in my mind, so thanks for a great introductory
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question.
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I do realize that I'm unusual, I guess, I mean, I'm not the typical teacher in the mortgage
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space just because I don't believe that it's just all about strategy and tactics.
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And some of it became apparent to me early in my career through errors and, you know,
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unsuccessful experiences that then were adjusted to in my plan and subsequently resulted
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in success.
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And then some of it has come, you know, post mortgage career as a coach and diving into
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my own interpersonal journey, and, you know, my own personal growth, and then looking
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at what I'm going through as a human being and going, ah, that's why this didn't work
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when I was a long officer, or, oh, wow, okay, I kind of fell into that, it worked because
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of this, but I didn't really realize it was working because of this.
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So, to give you an example, I guess, you know, is it about 1995 or something, you know,
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I had a pretty good income year for the first time in my career, I was like 28, 29 years
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old and, you know, made 400 grand or something and was, you know, I had been trying to get
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business from real estate agents and using all of the typical strategies we'll call it
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to get business from that, you know, cooperatively marketing with them and trying to, you know,
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conduct the, you know, going on that first appointment and clearly displaying my unique
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selling proposition and trying to get them to commit to being a partner of mine in these
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types of things.
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And I was running up against a lot of resistance and roadblocks and, and, and more importantly,
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it just didn't feel good, you know, like I'd leave and I was young and I had a chip on
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my shoulder and I'd be like, you know, that SOB, you know, like I make twice as much
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money than he does or, you know, and, and, and they're, and they're making me, you know,
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kiss their rear end and, like, and it just, none of it felt good.
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So I kind of went into a rebellion phase where for about three years I sought to prove
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that I didn't need realtors.
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So this was like 96, 97, 98, I really didn't pursue any and I got, you know, heavily into
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managing my database and became incredibly proficient at that.
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And I think I was doing that as well as anybody I knew at the time and was asked to speak on
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that early in my career, like from the Todd Duncan events.
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And then when I realized, because after 98, after the re-five boom ended 98, I mean,
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I got, I got locked right in the face, like I, I mean, I funded 311 loans in 98 and in
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June of 99, I was looking at funding three, you know, I mean, that's a huge drop, you
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know, and I was pretty freaked out.
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And I realized, I didn't have an insulated myself fully in the way that I wanted to, but
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I need to figure out a different way to go about this job because the way that I was
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going about it earlier in my career just, it didn't feel good.
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Like, I mean, I was, I was in some really dysfunctional relationships.
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And then I got beat up really, really good by some realtors that were very advantageous
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and that worked me hard and took advantage of me.
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So I realized that a paradigm shift needed to happen for me, which was I needed to stop
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chasing and start interviewing them for the opportunity to work with me.
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And not in a cocky way, but in a way to wear my energy when I would go into the appointment
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and need it to shift, because if I'm going into it with a bunch of insecurities and trying
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to close them and being strategic, they're going to have their guard up and I'm never going
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to get through to them.
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I mean, because that's what everybody else is doing, and I wanted to be unique, I wanted
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to be different.
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So I started to really practice kind of a, it was a strategy, but I, and I didn't really
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realize why it worked until more recently, but the uniqueness of my approach was to not
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really talk about me, which is just to go in and find out what they needed and to spend
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the first couple of times meeting with the person, just asking a lot of intelligent questions,
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really being a good listener and really understanding how I could serve them.
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And then coming back strategically with, here are the things that I could do for you
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based upon what I heard you say.
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And it really shifted a lot, because what ended up happening was I was able to subsequently
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vet out a lot of relationships that never took shape and I'm glad they didn't take shape
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because they weren't with my kind of people, my tribe of people, like there's only so
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many people out there that really are meant to, you know, to be worked with for our unique
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personalities.
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We're all different.
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And that was a part of the process was to be able to like purge out early, like the
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people that wouldn't be a good fit for me.
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It was more of a slow growth, so it wasn't like adding a realtor every week, you know,
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is adding like a realtor every three months as a result of this new way of doing things,
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but most importantly, I was adding people that I really loved hanging out with.
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And it felt so much more supportive of me and healthy and it got to the point where
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really everybody that I worked with as referral partners were my friends.
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Now that I looked back on it and what I spoke about in Vegas and truth be told like what
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I spoke on Vegas for anybody who was at that event, what I spoke about connection and
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the importance of connection and how that's what life is about and that's what gives
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meaning to our lives and that it's a very much a part of how we should be doing our business.
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I'm speaking as I always do Jeff, like one of it is like a little secret that I don't
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really tell anybody, but you know, I'm not the authority on the things that I speak
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about half the time.
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I'm actually speaking about things that I'm working really hard on right now in my life.
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So what I'm speaking on connection and how much it brings meaning to life, I'm really
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telling the audience what I'm aware of that I'm working on and that I need more of in
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my life.
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So the last 10 years from here, so there's been a journey of me letting my armor down,
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letting my guard down, being more vulnerable, being more real, allowing myself to be seen,
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not being in my head and being so strategic in my life and connecting with people on a
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deeper level.
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So like my relationship with my kids is way better than it ever has been, my relationship
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with my parents is way better than it ever has been and I have way more friends than I've
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ever had and all I know is I'm a happier person because I'm not so lonely.
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Like I mean, I have like some meaningful relationships in my life and then when I look
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back on it and then closing, I go, shit, that's what I was doing.
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Can I say shit?
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Your podcast by the way, if I turn this into the Howard Stern show, but I look, you could
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edit that out.
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But when I look back on it, I go, that's why it worked with realtors and that's why
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it worked with account financial planners.
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I didn't really realize what I was doing, but by not putting the full court press on them,
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by really taking an interest in who they were to evaluate whether they were somebody
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I wanted to work with, by really gaining some understanding of where they needed help
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and truly and honestly evaluating, am I the guy to help them?
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Just like, if your gig is, yeah, you can help me by paying for half my Zillow ads, I'm
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not your guy.
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I mean, that's not wrong for other people, but it's not right for me.
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So why not know that now and know that that's what's important to that person.
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I can't meet their needs.
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I'm going to pass, and I'm going to find connections with people that I truly enjoy
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working with.
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And my job is fun, and I'm going to be more successful because I'm going to be really
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supporting people that can then reward me for what I'm giving to them.
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So hopefully that kind of ties all that together, the presentation in my past.
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Yeah, it does.
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Very, very well.
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Thank you.
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And there's a lot you shared in there as well.
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Let me try and isolate a couple of things in there.
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In essence, are you saying then you're showing up to these, let's just take the example
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of the real term meetings.
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You're showing up with no agenda, per se, kind of a clean slate, and just want to show
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up and connect with this person and learn more and just find out who they are as a human
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being.
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Thank you.
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That's a great question.
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The agenda, there is an agenda, and in the agenda, or what we might want to refer
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to as intention.
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I mean, it's one and the same, I think.
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The intention is to see how it feels.
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Does this person feel like a good fit for me to work with?
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Do we have stuff in common?
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Can I really help them?
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Like that's the intention behind it.
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That's the biggest thing that I would want to impart upon anybody listening to this.
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So check this out.
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So the normal scenario in a nutshell is I'm strategically trying to figure out how
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to get them to give me a deal.
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Most originators, that's what they're going into it.
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If you look at, you peel the layers of the onion back, you get to the core.
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The intention behind it is a strategy to get them to give us a chance.
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So first of all, understand, for those of you that are listening that have that intention,
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that's really heavy.
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I mean, meaning like, you've got a lot of pressure on yourself now.
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You're putting a lot of stress on this appointment, and they feel it.
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So remember, we're all connected.
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I mean, everybody want to, I don't mean to get overly technical, but like science is proven
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that there's a connectedness amongst all of us, there's nothing to be.
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And there's a vibration.
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Changing energy.
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Wow.
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When they walk in and meet somebody.
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For sure.
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Yeah.
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So put yourself in their shoes.
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You're on the other end of it, right?
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And you've had this same appointment about 50 times where the person's going to come
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in over coffee and they're going to guns of blazing can try to convince you.
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Of course, you're going to put your guard up, right?
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I mean, you're not going to just sit there and be sold and have somebody try to convince
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you to give them a try.
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You're going to be defensive.
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And there's a ton of pressure on you because you have an intention to leave there with some
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kind of an agreement.
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And therefore, your energy is a little bit tough for them to feel and manage because you've
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got some intensity in you.
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I mean, that's kind of what's happening on an energy level and an exchange of connection
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level.
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It's the opposite, which is, I'm here to get to know this person.
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I'm here to find out if they feel like they're a good fit for me.
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I'm here to see how I can help them.
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Like how can I serve them?
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Like, when you really think about it, it's like, it's pretty offensive the way that I
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used to go about it.
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Like I used to go about it early in my career of, it was very selfish to like, I'm going
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to go on there and say all the right things to you to try to get you to give me a deal
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that will pay me three grand.
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That's an interesting message that I was sending to the other party versus I have no intention
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of convincing you or of anything, selling you on anything or even talking about myself
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for the first couple of appointments.
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My intention is only find out where you need help and determine if I can be the person
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that helps you.
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And after I've helped you, then maybe we could talk about doing some business together
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because the law of reciprocity kicks in and people like to give back to somebody who's
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given value to them.
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And it just really, it most importantly, Jeff, I think of anything that it did, was
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it changed my energy when I'd go have a cup of coffee or lunch with a realtor for the
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first or second time.
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So I wasn't going in with an expectation of getting something and therefore I was going
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in more myself, more relaxed, more at ease, more friendly, more curious.
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I was embodying all these qualities that we all possess in our personality that actually
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have people put their guard down and feel safe and then a foundation can be created for
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a connection.
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I mean, pardon the metaphor, the crudeness of the metaphor, but it would be like going
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on a first date and the other person feeling like you were saying all the right things to
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try to get them to sleep with you tonight.
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You know, like you'd be like, whoa, you're moving too fast here buddy and slow down and
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you'd be defensive, right?
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If they felt the opposite, which is this person is a nice person and they just want to get
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to know me and they're truly curious and interested in me, now you're going to feel more safe.
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You're going to put your guard down and now we can connect and we can see how that feels.
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And guess what?
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Those are the relationships that last forever because they have an actual foundation behind
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them.
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Like I mentioned, Greg King is very, who I coach, who's just a spectacular human being
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and I mean, it's no secret life, the successful amount you meet and he's just such a great person
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and they're like, he's got 16 very loyal realtors that give him 100% of their business
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and they fight for him, you know, he did 361 deals last year.
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And when I ask Greg, hey, you know, can you share with the group, you know, with the people
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in the L360 family, what you do, he's like, I don't really think I do anything special
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because he doesn't even realize that the uniqueness of him is that he doesn't sell himself.
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He doesn't try to convince anybody to work with him.
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He truly just gets to know them and then tries to help them and the rest just takes care
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of itself.
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And then he's got this army of people who love him because he cared about them first.
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So that's kind of the process that I'm offering up is an alternative process to what a lot
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of people do.
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Yeah, do you think that anybody can make the pivot to that style of engagement or is there
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some pre-work they might need to do or something?
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That's a great question.
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So one thing about me is that I don't necessarily always say things everybody likes to hear
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about it.
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But I want to be honest.
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I think so too.
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It's truth and mortgage marketing.
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So go at it.
24:19
Good.
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Good.
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Well, because here's the thing.
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Some people don't have a likability factor.
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I mean, we've met those people and that's just their stuff.
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It doesn't make them a bad person.
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It doesn't mean that they're helpless or that they, you know, that they're not, that
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they're not worthy of being in the job or anything like that.
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It's just that some people have their stuff that they're bringing to the table, whatever
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it is, their life experiences that they're bringing to the table.
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They're not particularly welcoming.
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So can anybody make the pivot?
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Probably not everybody.
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But I do think that everybody can make an attempt.
24:56
I mean, so let's, let's look at it like this.
25:00
Let's remove all of the conjecture from the equation.
25:04
Let's just talk about relationships that we have in our lives.
25:07
All the meaningful relationships, your closest friend's job, they didn't happen by some
25:12
strategy.
25:13
Right?
25:14
Like you didn't go into that first beer that you had with your buddy, you know, 15 years
25:19
ago going, all right, how am I going to get this guy to like me?
25:22
Right?
25:23
I mean, it just happened organically.
25:24
You showed up as you, they showed up with them, and it was a good fit.
25:30
All I'm offering is that's fully available to all of us in business.
25:34
And guess what?
25:35
When it happens, business gets fun because then you're working with people that you really
25:39
dig, you know, and that's why it's important to find out like I'm not bullshitting when
25:44
I say like truly find out who they are and whether or not they're good fit for you.
25:50
If they, you know, don't like sports and you're an avid sports fan, that doesn't mean
25:55
that you don't want to work with them.
25:56
It means that's just one thing you don't have as a connection point.
25:58
I mean, we have to find some things that are common, you know, and then all of a sudden
26:03
we, because people take care of people that they like, you know, when I talked to loan
26:08
officers, I was talking to somebody earlier today, actually, who I'm interviewing for our
26:12
coaching program, you know, one of the things that he was sharing to me is there's such
26:18
in his opinion, there's such a lack of loyalty among realtors right now, like, you know,
26:22
not a rumor loyal, the big blanket statement, it's like, well, I don't know if I believe
26:27
that.
26:28
Like, I mean, I think there are a lot of loyal people out there.
26:30
I used to think like that.
26:31
I used to think that they all realtors are, you know, you're as good as your last deal.
26:34
And I realized, no, that's, that's my immaturity.
26:37
Have I taken the time to let my guard down and take my sales hat off and connect with
26:44
them?
26:45
And if I take my time to find some people that are my tribe, you know, that are the
26:50
my kind of people, and it may take a little bit more time, you might have to sift through
26:55
twice as many realtors to find the right five or six, but I'll tell you this, if you have
27:00
the right five or six, it's better than the wrong 15.
27:04
Good points.
27:05
You know, because the right five or six are going to give you more deals, they're going
27:09
to fight for you, they're going to respect you, they're not going to call you at eight
27:13
o'clock at night, they're going to, they're going to be fun to work with, you know, and,
27:18
and they're going to probably account for as many deals as the wrong 10 to 15 who are
27:22
going to, you know, give out three cards or refer every third deal to you.
27:27
And then they're not going to work well within your system.
27:29
It's just not even fun at that point.
27:31
Yeah, you said a key phrase there a couple of times, you know, that they're going to fight
27:35
for you.
27:36
And, you know, especially in this market, right, the, the pressure to perform the, the
27:41
competitiveness of more people chasing agents, that's I think becoming even more important,
27:46
you know, technology, all these other companies kind of creeping in.
27:48
It's like, how do I win that business?
27:50
How do I, you know, become more referable?
27:52
I think with, you know, one takeaway that I just want to highlight, I think everybody's
27:55
hearing it is, yeah, it's the relationships, you know, it's the foundation, it's the connection
27:59
of that.
28:00
It's the level of rapport, trust, likeability that's going to allow you to win that larger
28:05
share of the business.
28:06
But also, I love what you said, just to reiterate, it's, you know, the agent's going to fight
28:10
for you.
28:11
And, you know, I think that's what you want in a transaction.
28:13
Yeah.
28:14
I mean, it was very amazing because I mean, I used to have realtors that give out three
28:17
business cards and one of them was mine and they did that dance and I would say, hey,
28:22
you know, don't give out mine at all then if you're not going to just get about to give
28:24
out just mine.
28:25
You know, I would get all of the cards every day and try to everything, you know?
28:29
And then, like, when I tried this new approach, everything shifted.
28:33
It was like, it wasn't, and never even had to deal with that anymore.
28:37
I mean, it was I, I, I just was working with a bunch of friends who wasn't, all I needed
28:42
to do was just maintain the friendship.
28:43
I mean, just go out and play around a golf and go out and have dinner with, you know,
28:48
my wife and their, their husband or their wife and every once in a while and just hang
28:53
out and be thoughtful and write them a handwritten note every once in a while, let them know
28:57
how much I appreciate them and I never had the two business cards thing anymore, three
29:00
business cards thing.
29:01
I mean, it was loyal because, because it was real.
29:04
I guess that's really what it is.
29:06
Now they think about it.
29:07
It was loyal because it was real, you know, like it was a real relationship versus something
29:13
that was transactionally obtained with strategy, which is very different.
29:17
Okay.
29:18
That's, I love that.
29:20
That's a great setup in terms of, you know, the philosophy, if you will, and the mindset
29:23
and the approach in terms of changing how you look at building relationships with realtors.
29:30
And I know, so I've got this other voice in my head that's chirping now saying, okay,
29:34
that's it.
29:35
And Jeff, Tim, I buy into it.
29:37
I like it.
29:38
What I'm curious about is if you did or recommend doing any kind of, you know, advanced
29:43
recon work, if you will, right, to identify the right agents in the local market.
29:48
Do you know what I mean?
29:50
Sure.
29:51
Yeah.
29:52
For sure.
29:53
First of all, I don't want to compliment you.
29:54
I mean, this is the first time I've ever been interviewed by you.
29:55
But you're a really easy person to have this kind of a conversation with and your questions
29:58
are organic and fluid.
29:59
And it's getting me stimulated.
30:01
Awesome.
30:02
Thank you.
30:03
Thanks for being a great interviewer.
30:05
And I don't say that lightly at all.
30:07
So yeah, I think that that's the advantage that the law and originator of today has versus
30:15
my generation, right?
30:16
Like you have access to so much more information that you can be doing your homework in advance.
30:20
And I don't think, I think for some reason that I can't quite figure out a lot of law
30:24
and originators want to like hide the fact that they did recon.
30:27
I mean, I don't think you hide it.
30:28
I think you own it.
30:29
I mean, I think that you own it because of flattering.
30:32
And I think you don't you position it like, you know, and I'm sitting down with a real
30:36
estate agent.
30:37
The first thing I'm going to say is, hey, I hope you don't mind that I did a little bit
30:39
of homework and kind of checked out your Facebook page and, you know, I noticed that you like
30:44
hiking, you know, and before we even talk about anything else, I just, I love hiking too.
30:49
Like where are some of your favorite places to go for a hike?
30:51
Start the conversation off there.
30:53
You want to lower somebody's guard.
30:54
I mean, they're, they're thinking, you're coming into the meeting and the first thing
30:58
you're going to start pitching is your unique selling proposition.
31:00
And we're going to close in 15 days and I'll make you guys a cash buyer and we're going
31:04
to make you look good.
31:05
You're going to get referrals.
31:06
They've heard all that.
31:07
Okay.
31:08
So let's start off with a common denominator among the two of us.
31:13
And guess what?
31:15
If it never goes past that, it's okay.
31:18
They're going to give you the second appointment because they're going to enjoy the first
31:22
appointment.
31:23
Your goal should be for the first appointment to be enjoyable for them.
31:27
That's how you get the second appointment.
31:29
The problem is, is the first appointment generally isn't that enjoyable because it's all
31:33
about you.
31:35
You're telling them about you.
31:36
It's not about them.
31:38
There's no care that's being put into it.
31:40
And then they're like, oh, that felt greasy and I don't want to get together again versus,
31:45
what if you just made it about them?
31:46
I know that you had two kids that go to this school.
31:49
My kids graduated from that school.
31:50
How do you like it?
31:51
What teachers do they have?
31:52
Oh, my daughter had the same teachers.
31:53
You're so cool.
31:54
You know, whatever.
31:55
You know, and for, you know what, half hours gone by and they don't really want it to
32:01
end because it's been fun and refreshing for a change.
32:04
And this is where I was talking to Danny Harani the other day.
32:08
He's going to be in our next L360 group and those are listening that know him and he's
32:12
such a bright guy.
32:13
I mean, really honored to be working with him.
32:16
And we were talking about this subject matter of the future is combining technology with
32:24
high touch.
32:25
So it's like, how do we marry it to like, like quick and lending tree and whatever, like
32:31
they've got the high tech, you need to have that.
32:34
Like you're going to need to be able to, especially with the price compression, all that,
32:37
you're going to need to be able to process ones more efficiently.
32:39
You're going to need to be able to leverage technology.
32:41
But what they don't have and will never have is the high touch piece.
32:45
And that's the part that I don't think ever really goes away because now it may shrink
32:50
the size of the industry because maybe there will be some percentage of the audience that
32:55
won't care about that.
32:56
But I still think there will always be a market for the people that want to actually deal with
33:03
a competent human being that cares that they feel like they've developed a relationship
33:07
with.
33:08
It's educated them on what they need to be choosing in the process.
33:12
And it is going to really display some proactive kindness and customer service.
33:16
And you combine that with technology and I think that's the formula going forward that
33:19
we're going to need to be adopting to be successful.
33:21
But absolutely doing the homework, the reconnaissance.
33:24
I mean, if you've got a real estate agent that you're thinking about pursuing, they closed
33:27
23 transactions last year and 22 more listings.
33:31
I don't know.
33:32
Maybe you don't get together with that one.
33:33
Maybe they're not controlling the business.
33:35
Maybe you want to work with, if you look at somebody who's been in the business two years
33:40
but closed 17 buyers sides last year and they're like, well, they're a hockey stick.
33:45
I mean, that person's got a lot of growth potential, right?
33:47
I mean, I do think you have to be intelligent in terms of who you target and pursue for
33:52
sure.
33:53
Absolutely.
33:54
And I bring that up just because, you know, it's funny when I get on these interviews
33:57
like this and probably similar for you, you know, in coaching that you're involved in
34:00
things come out of that and then you're interviewed by other people.
34:04
And so when you and I touch base the other day, it was really fresh for me because I just
34:07
had a couple of coaching calls where we had this kind of conversation.
34:10
I was on the phone with a Sloan officer and he told me that one out of five agents that
34:14
he met with sent him a deal, only one out of five, right?
34:18
And I thought to myself, hmm, I'm talking to Tim Bohem today, I'd be curious to hear,
34:22
right?
34:23
Let's talk about where he thinks the problem lies within that.
34:26
And I think we kind of touched on the first half, which is, and I already know he told
34:30
me, you know, to use his words, he says, he went in swinging hard.
34:34
It's really instructive right there.
34:38
Yeah.
34:39
Pretty self-aware.
34:40
I mean, at least he knows that I actually commend whoever that person was for two things.
34:44
Number one is, having the self-awareness that he was swinging hard because a lot of people
34:48
don't realize that too knowing that he only closed one out of five.
34:51
I think just knowing your numbers is important.
34:54
And if I can comment on what I would want to ask that person, it would be, have you gone
34:58
back to the four that didn't or the four out of every five that don't and honestly ask
35:03
them for help?
35:04
Say, could you do me a favor?
35:06
I know that you're busy, but I just would appreciate a really direct, candid, honest response.
35:12
We met, you chose to not send business to me.
35:15
I accept that and I appreciate your time.
35:17
Would you mind sharing with me why you chose to not send business to me?
35:21
Wow.
35:22
Because what we want to do is we want to isolate, and I would do that, I used to do this
35:27
with borrowers a lot.
35:28
Like when a borrower wouldn't go with me, I'd ask them like, I'm curious, I mean, I'm
35:33
respect the fact you've chosen to work elsewhere, why did you not go with me?
35:36
And I would learn a lot, right?
35:38
So then that gives me the reconnaissance info as to what I need to work on in my presentation.
35:43
So like, let's say that three out of every four of these realtors say, well, because you
35:46
know what, you're just your energy was super aggressive, and I felt like you were just,
35:49
you know, trying to close me so hard, that would be really valuable to know, right?
35:53
And so you can pull back a little and be more measured in your approach.
35:56
But I think that that's where, you know, because it's so personal, right?
36:00
Like, you know, when somebody says no to us, it hurts.
36:06
And we take it kind of personally, or if they don't return our calls after the first
36:09
appointment, and we start making up stories about, you know, and like us, or whatever,
36:14
and then we get like resentful, and we just stop calling them, it's a missed opportunity
36:18
to learn where you need to grow.
36:21
Absolutely.
36:22
Okay.
36:23
Cool.
36:24
Just because I know we're limited for time, I want to kind of step up if you will, the
36:29
speed of questioning, if that's okay, little rapid fire session work, right?
36:34
Yep.
36:35
And again, this is all coming out of the real world, you know, conversations I'm having
36:37
with people.
36:38
Okay.
36:39
Another loan officer, two out of ten deals lost.
36:42
I only closed two out of ten deals.
36:45
I asked them why, lost because of a quarter percent difference in rate.
36:49
Now knowing what I know about you in terms of like I talked about in the intro, right,
36:52
being very intentional in designing your customer experience, I'd like to present that to
36:57
you, perhaps.
36:58
And I know it's probably a little bit unfair, but maybe a coachable moment, a teaching
37:01
opportunity.
37:02
If that loan officer is listening, two out of ten deals, why did you lose them his answer?
37:07
It came down to they left me over a quarter difference in rate.
37:09
What do you think's missing based on that limited info you have?
37:12
What do you think's missing from that loan officer's plan?
37:15
It's not possible, obviously, for me to answer this question directly because I need to
37:20
ask more information from this individual, but here's the interesting thing.
37:24
In our performance accelerator coaching program on a quarterly basis, I do a master mining
37:29
call with all the loan officers who are being coached in that program and there's really
37:33
big time originators in that program and I had to call with them yesterday.
37:37
So this subject matter was brought up more than once, which was I'm losing because of
37:42
margin compression and I was able to ask these people detailed questions on this video
37:47
conference call about what was transpiring.
37:50
What I would tell you to everyone listening first of all is, if it's an eighth in rate,
37:55
I believe that you can always work with an eighth in rate.
37:58
You can always get the deal over an eighth if you bring true value and you have to display
38:03
that value and your presentation at point of sale is your lifeblood of your success in
38:09
this business and you always have to be evolving and growing and looking how to make it
38:13
better.
38:14
And I can give some examples if you want me to as to how to make it better.
38:16
When you get to a quarter, you're going to have some attrition.
38:19
There's no question.
38:20
There's going to be people that are just going to be that rate sensitive to work no matter
38:24
what value you bring, a quarter is a quarter and it could add up to a significant amount
38:29
of money for most people.
38:30
You get to three eighths, which some people are dealing with on the jumbo loans or the
38:33
competing with loans and chasing all that, that even becomes more difficult.
38:37
So there are certain things, the first thing, the first and easiest thing when you have
38:42
a rate differentiation is to make sure you're educating the consumer on what the true
38:48
dollars are that we're talking about in terms of the cost.
38:51
So if they're saying, look, this person's a quarter of a percent better and that's $69
38:56
a month less.
38:58
Okay, hold on.
38:59
It's actually $38 a month less or whatever the calculation is because of the after tax.
39:06
So you're going to make sure that you're doing your job and you're fiscally literate enough
39:12
to show somebody that the real difference is this, not what you're calculating, which
39:18
is X per year, in this case, say $420 or something.
39:23
And then circling back to the things that you've already hopefully articulated to them
39:29
that you're bringing to the relationship that no one else is.
39:33
So that's where my is an example and then I'll stop and if you want more, I'll give you
39:38
more, but I wanted you wanted this to be rapid fire.
39:41
So I don't want to go too long.
39:42
But that's where always, always early in the conversation, articulating for the client
39:48
that my job really just begins when you're first one closes with me because from there
39:52
it's my job to assist you in managing where just the evidence that you'll ever take
39:55
on your life.
39:56
Most people that do what I do for living just provide the debt and walk away, I don't
39:59
make that mistake.
40:00
I'm going to be proactively looking for opportunities to add to your financial wealth over time.
40:06
These would be doing refinances and when the market provides those opportunities, you're
40:11
not going to have to pick up the phone call me and I'm going to be looking for those opportunities
40:14
for you.
40:15
I'm going to be introducing other people in the financial services sector that can save
40:19
you money.
40:20
If you're referring out business to real to accountants and financial planners, you're
40:24
making up more than the $48 a month or whatever it is in some cases.
40:29
If you are taking a proactive, complete service approach to winning at point and sale, I'll
40:36
stop there.
40:37
I mean, there's so much more and I mean, you can probably spend 15 more minutes on it,
40:39
but that's a short answer.
40:41
I mean, I'd have to analyze each individual's scenarios to what they're doing at point
40:45
and sale.
40:47
Add these three things, the equation, and I think you could start overcoming a quarter
40:50
much more easily than you are now.
40:52
Well, first of all, thanks for your honesty for just acknowledging that there is some
40:57
nutrition at a quarter percent because there are people out there that the 800 FICO
41:02
engineer out of Silicon Valley where he knows he can get it anywhere.
41:07
Like you said, they got a lot of deposits at a bank and so that quarter rate, depending
41:11
on loan, that could add up to a lot.
41:13
I think you hit the nail on the head with what I wanted to get across to the listeners
41:16
is more often than not when I hear somebody losing two out of 10 deals based on a quarter
41:20
rate.
41:21
It just continues to surprise me, I guess, that even today that too many loan officers
41:27
are not, you know, to use that word again, intentional or aren't architecting, you know,
41:32
from the moment of hello, right?
41:34
This is Jeff at XYZ Mortgage.
41:35
They're not architecting a process or a questioning dialogue or anything that's really differentiating
41:41
them at all.
41:42
They're just defaulting to rate.
41:44
But still, even though we've been banging this drum for a long time, I couldn't agree
41:48
with you more, man.
41:49
I mean, it's like, I've always felt like, you know, having a system for selling yourself
41:54
or what I, the metaphor that I use is, you know, what is the mechanism for improving
41:58
your batting average, you know, if you use a baseball metaphor, I mean, you get so
42:01
many at bats, the people that are most successful in the ones that have the highest batting
42:05
average and the people that have the highest batting average are the ones that are presenting
42:09
true value in a proactive way.
42:11
Every time at point of sale a minute that they talk to the person, like, if you get off
42:15
the phone with me after the first phone call and you've not experienced unprecedented value
42:20
for me, shame on me, like, I mean, that's my opportunity to do it, like, right there,
42:26
you know, and a lot of long originators right now are like, they kind of have pond off
42:31
that initial phone call to like an undergrad, you know, a loan officer assistant who takes
42:37
that initial lead call and gathers the information, so I get it because, you know, two, three
42:42
years ago, you had so many refusals that you had to do that to just be able to facilitate
42:45
all the business.
42:46
They get to try to reevaluate that because ultimately at the end of the day, you know,
42:51
you're probably the best salesperson on your team, at least you should be, and I don't
42:56
know that I'd be taking any chances with letting an understudy handle that initial lead
43:01
call.
43:02
You got one shot to make a first impression.
43:03
If you're not bringing clear, you know, unquestionable value and then they get on the phone with
43:10
somebody else, you're probably, you're batting average is going to go way down.
43:12
Right on.
43:13
Right on.
43:14
Okay.
43:15
Cool.
43:16
Thank you.
43:17
Great answer.
43:18
What's your take on loan officers?
43:20
I mean, I kind of know why I'm hesitating is I already kind of know the answer, but I've
43:24
never asked you this question, so, you know, loan officers who say, hey, I don't want
43:28
to rely on agents for all of my business, and I want to, right, be more self-sourced.
43:34
I'm sure you hear that with.
43:36
How do you respond to that?
43:37
Well, I mean, I get it.
43:39
And I agree.
43:40
I think that realtors should be a, you know, a source of business, but I don't know
43:45
you should be even your primary source.
43:47
I think that you're putting too many eggs in one basket, especially going forward.
43:50
I think realtors are having less and less control of the transaction.
43:53
I think the most underutilized or under accessed part of the business is your past customer
43:59
database.
44:00
It starts with every loan that you do for somebody.
44:03
You have an opportunity for 45 to 60 days to really blow somebody away.
44:07
That's why, you know, I've always, you know, preached the perfect loan process and, and
44:12
during that period to get introductions to other people in their sphere of influence is
44:17
very, very important.
44:18
But then after the deal closes, staying in touch with them in meaningful ways, not just
44:23
putting them on a drip campaign that's sale and that they know that, you know, you're
44:27
just sending out, but really connecting with them in a personal way as much as you possibly
44:31
can.
44:32
So when it does come time for them to have another need or know if somebody who has
44:35
need, they're going to think of you because they feel like they owe it to you because
44:39
you've been great about staying connected with them.
44:42
I also feel like, you know, there's other pillars of influence such as accountants and
44:46
financial planners that are good to approach.
44:48
But lastly, you know, in our master's program in April, you know, in that group, we've
44:54
got some of the top originators in the country.
44:56
I mean, that are in that group and it's a real great thank-kank of ideas.
45:00
That was the centralized focus and we're going to be reconvening in DC in October and
45:05
continuing on from there, which is how do we get to the consumer direct?
45:09
How do we become less reliant upon anyone?
45:13
And you know, we'll be taking a look at that in great depth with Facebook marketing and
45:18
other types of social media endeavors.
45:21
Michael Shane, who is an amazing loan originator out of Seattle, Washington, he's been the top
45:27
producing agent in that marketplace for years now.
45:30
You know, he generates between 350 and 500 leads a month on his own and 60% of the business
45:40
is purchased now.
45:41
And they do it.
45:42
They have a lot of money and time is estimated, but they do it with SEO.
45:46
So you know, whether it be SEO or, you know, really querying and targeting with your Facebook
45:52
advertising, I would be doing that right now.
45:55
If I was an originator, I would be allocating a certain percentage of my financial resources
46:01
and time into consumer direct.
46:04
Another percentage in my existing client database and another percentage into, you know, the
46:08
referral partners, if you will, which are very important pillars.
46:11
That's not going away.
46:12
I mean, realtors still control the deal, but I do think that we need to diversify as my
46:17
point.
46:18
We're going to the Facebook point and you know, investing some time and money in that.
46:22
Would you be of the type that would be wanting to learn and understand the mechanisms of
46:28
succeeding with Facebook as yourself or just want to, you know, outsource and hire?
46:32
Yeah, you're asking the wrong guy because I avoid technology like it's my polio.
46:38
I'm not a tech guy very much.
46:42
Like as an example with our coaching company, Scott Bruton, who's a coach with our company
46:45
is a super efficient, you know, social media tech guy and he does all of that for us,
46:50
right?
46:51
Because that's his joy and he is genius and I let him run with it.
46:55
It just depends who you are.
46:56
Like if you're good at that stuff and you enjoy that stuff, yeah, you can insource it.
47:01
And if you don't, then you should outsource it.
47:03
However, I just want to say this about outsourcing.
47:06
Sometimes I'm seeing too much of Jeff, when it comes to the peep, it's so clear to me
47:10
when somebody's outsourcing their social media marketing because it's, it's not authentic.
47:17
There's nothing to it that's human.
47:19
It's like, there's a coach in our industry who I follow on Instagram and I've seen this
47:23
individual's post now the last three weeks and this person is clearly outsource their social
47:28
media and their posts are, they're just not good in my opinion.
47:32
There's nothing about them that are, that are real, you know, it's just like, oh, this
47:37
is just like some, some, some boilerplate thing that probably a hundred other business professionals
47:43
that are using the same social media consultants are sending out to their friendship base, right?
47:47
Like I mean, that's, I think, waste of money.
47:49
I think you have to have some uniqueness, especially the more and more that people go in
47:54
that direction.
47:55
And I think that loan originators need to get over themselves, sorry for being so blunt
47:59
and really start embracing video.
48:01
Yes.
48:02
I hear far too much of, oh, I don't like to be on camera and I don't like, like, you
48:08
know what, it's too bad.
48:09
I mean, it's where, it's where things are headed.
48:12
Like, if you want to connect with people, there's no more powerful tools in video and getting
48:16
good at it's really important.
48:18
And it's not, when I coach a lot of my loan originators, like one on one, on, will break
48:24
down their videos that they're creating and it's the way you frame yourself off, are
48:28
you looking directly into the lens so people feel like you're talking directly to them?
48:33
Are you overly scripted so then you feel, it feels like you're reading something and
48:37
you, I can't really feel you and you're authenticity.
48:39
I mean, there's, and then there's a whole bunch of other analytics around what videos
48:45
pull and what videos don't pull.
48:47
And closing what I'll say is that what statistically is proven when you look at all the analytics
48:53
from the social media experts is that what people look at and what people comment on
48:58
and what people like and, and most importantly, what people forward are the things that
49:04
mean something to them, not the things that mean something to you.
49:09
So sorry, but the picture of you with your arm around the husband and wife at the closing
49:13
table saying we close another loan in 17 days, they don't care about that.
49:18
They don't, they care about, everybody you're sending out to that to just cruises right
49:22
on through that.
49:23
It means nothing to them.
49:24
What they care about are things that are meaningful to them.
49:27
It's like quotes, like personal development quotes, spiritual quotes.
49:31
That's why they pull.
49:32
That's why funny videos pull people forward that stuff because it made them laugh and it
49:37
meant something to them.
49:38
That's why when you ask those questions and them as silly as they could be, like what's
49:43
your favorite color that you'll see on Facebook, believe it or not, that's just statistically
49:47
pulls because you're engaging the person and you're getting them to interact with you.
49:53
Those are the things that statistically have traction versus, you know, please welcome
49:59
our new employee who's our office manager, you know, people that they don't like that
50:03
stuff.
50:04
No, absolutely.
50:06
You bring up a great point there and I agree with you on video, man, that's a whole
50:08
another session, you know, there and of itself, as you may know, you know, I teach branding
50:14
classes for real estate agents and I bring up video a lot and just the other day I put
50:18
Bellevue Washington, you know, bring it up again.
50:20
How many people are doing video in a room of 50 people?
50:23
Like, you know, four, five, six, seven hands go up, right?
50:25
And you're like, I don't understand.
50:27
You're in a business that requires you to get out in front of people, right?
50:30
Outside of your comfort zone.
50:32
And to your point about content and what's shareable, this is the type of content that, you know,
50:36
I think this aligns with what you said, as I tell agents, your content has to be three
50:39
different types, educational, entertaining and convincing, three different types.
50:43
And that's, you know, that's what's going to get people engaged.
50:47
And so, you know, the educational stuff for those loan officers that are listening, that
50:50
could be things like market updates or here's the market forecast for your county, et
50:54
cetera, you know, your take on the latest Fed funds, high grade, you know, rate hike and
50:59
all that stuff.
51:00
And then, you know, have a personality, right?
51:01
Yeah, share some other funny videos, but it's okay, right?
51:03
You just be yourself.
51:04
I guess that's the big takeaway.
51:06
That's what I always tell them.
51:07
Just be yourself, you know?
51:08
I agree with you.
51:09
And the point to the point that you make, the reason that like, here's what the market
51:14
trends are doing work is because it means something to them.
51:19
Once again, like they own a home, and of course, I'm going to look at that because I want
51:23
to know it has my home gone up in value.
51:24
See, that's something that's, again, falls into the category of the recipient likes it.
51:30
You know, not you think that this is what you need to be sending.
51:35
Think about them and what they want of you and send them that.
51:38
That's what buys brain cells and has you top of mind consciousness.
51:41
Right on.
51:42
Amen to that.
51:43
All right, my friend, this has been a wonderful education and a great sharing.
51:48
Thank you so much.
51:49
I appreciate your time for being here before we wrap up.
51:53
You bet, man.
51:54
This is a great gift to my audience.
51:55
So it was great to finally, you know, have you share yourself with our listeners.
52:01
Tell us what you're doing.
52:02
What are you working on that you're excited about?
52:04
I know you and I talked before.
52:06
There's kind of a new project or something you've gotten the worst would love to share
52:08
that with my listeners.
52:09
Yeah, thank you.
52:10
So obviously, I have my coaching company, performance experts coaching, and if you want to find
52:17
out more about our coaching programs, you can just, you can, you can go to our website.
52:21
I'll give you that in a second.
52:22
But the other thing that I have for the first time, I mean, I wrote the business plan
52:27
in 2001 for loan toolbox and I never would have thought, you know, 17 years later that
52:33
I would create another product.
52:34
I mean, this is the first product that I've created in 17 years.
52:37
But I felt that there was such a, I had so much passion.
52:40
Maybe you felt it in this interview around this whole connection thing and the need to
52:44
be able to understand how to stay connected, deeply connected with our clients to where
52:51
they come back and they were for business to us and how to cultivate true meaningful, solidified
52:56
relationships with referral partners.
52:59
And I therefore have created a whole system for that.
53:02
It's called the complete referral partner success system.
53:05
It takes you through step by step how to develop relationships with realtors, accountants,
53:12
financial planners, and insurance agents.
53:13
It also takes you through step by step how to effectively do an annual financial review
53:18
with your client to generate business because there's so many missed opportunities.
53:23
People just think that it's all about trying to get a refi and that's only one tenth of
53:28
the opportunity.
53:29
There are literally ten opportunities in every annual financial review that you do.
53:33
There's over three hours of video broken down into, you know, 15-minute segments.
53:38
There are 14 stages to the system.
53:41
It involves quizzes so you can make sure you're retaining and you have competency.
53:46
It involves all of the transcripts of all the scripts that I give you, what to say, including
53:51
questions that you should be asking when you meet for a cup of coffee for the first time
53:55
of the potential referral partner.
53:57
It's very comprehensive and I'm super proud of it.
54:00
My team did most of the work.
54:02
I created the content but they're the ones who created the dynamic delivery of the content
54:06
that I think is really the secret sauce behind it.
54:09
I'm super proud of them.
54:12
You can find out more about it very easily by going to www.performance-experts.net.
54:21
So performance-don't forget the dash-experts.net and that will take you right to the landing
54:26
page of the complete referral partner success system.
54:30
There's also access to a private Facebook community that we monitor and where you'll
54:35
be networking with other people that have purchased the system, so that's another nice
54:39
thing the community component to it.
54:42
And yeah, I think that anybody that really wants to, I mean the price is very inexpensive.
54:48
It's $799 one time.
54:51
You don't have to pay an annual fee for it or anything.
54:53
I mean, look, if you get one real-to-relationship, it's worth thousands of dollars so it should
54:59
pay for itself as long as you implement it.
55:01
I'm excited about it and would love to be teaching you if it's something that you're
55:05
interested in.
55:06
That's awesome.
55:07
So I want to make sure, because I'm going to put all these links in the show notes.
55:09
The website is performance-experts.net.
55:12
Yeah, that's the website for the product and the website for our company is performance-experts.com.
55:18
Oh, okay.
55:19
So I'll put both in there for those who want to learn more about your company and the
55:26
leadership 360 coaching.
55:27
That's at performance-experts.com and this product is at.net and I'm going there right now
55:34
just so I can look at it.
55:36
That's awesome, man.
55:37
Hey, I remember a loan toolbox.
55:40
I was a member, used it religiously and it's good to see you back creating content so people
55:45
can continue to say if they're not ready for coaching or whatever at that level, right?
55:49
This is one way they can still get access to a lot of the great stuff you're doing.
55:52
And I'm looking at it.
55:53
This is awesome.
55:54
It looks sharp, man.
55:55
Love it.
55:56
Thanks.
55:57
I'm really proud of the job they did.
55:58
My team did a really great job.
56:00
So I appreciate you taking a look at it, Jeff.
56:02
Thanks for having me.
56:03
You bet.
56:04
Listeners, thank you very much for tuning in.
56:06
As always, we appreciate you.
56:08
If you like today's episode, do us a favor, maybe leave us a little comment or review.
56:12
I tune Stitcher wherever you're listening to this on the blog.
56:16
Thanks for tuning in and we will see you on the next one.
56:20
Bye for now.
56:21
Thanks for listening to Mortgage Marketing Radio.
56:24
One more truth in Mortgage Marketing.
56:26
Get more free training and resources at MortgageMarketingInstitute.com.
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