Latest / The Prompt / Ep. 570 | Data-driven precision targeting: Workday’s winning ABM formula

Transcript

Ep. 570 | Data-driven precision targeting: Workday’s winning ABM formula · The Prompt

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  This is on base your one stop shop for solving your most
• 0:04
  pressing B to B go to market challenges.
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  Each week, host Chris Moody and Paul Gibson talk to sales and
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  marketing leaders to get you in depth insights and creative
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  strategies to set your revenue teams up for success.
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  Hey everyone, welcome back to the Home Base Podcast.
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  I'm your host, Chris Moody, and today I'm very.
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  Excited to be with Craig. Abramson from work.
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  Day to talk about. Precision targeting with
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  data-driven account based. Strategies, Craig, thanks for.
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  Joining us today and welcome to the show.
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  Thanks for having me Chris, looking forward to it.
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  Awesome. I am too.
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  This is 1 where I know we could have missed this whole recording
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  slot just talking shop and what's working, what's not
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  working, what are we trying to do, which you're always my
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  favorite conversations. But before we jump into that and
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  recorded fashion, I'd love. For you to tell.
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  Everyone, a little bit about your journey.
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  What led you to what you're doing today?
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  What are some of your highlights?
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  Yeah, I think my journey has somehow I found myself in this
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  has niche of software marketing wasn't intentional, but I
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  started off as a marketing writer at this company called
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  Syncsort, which was the leading sorting software at the time.
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  I think that experience really helped kick start every part of
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  my career. Having that background in
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  writing and just being able to, you know, write anything from
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  marketing strategies to case studies to white papers, all all
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  that stuff that really helped. But that kind of pushed me into
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  software without realizing it. And as my career progressed and
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  I started to jump into different roles to leading marketing at
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  some of these other startups, pulling back on on that
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  experience. And then being at these startups
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  where you're able to really get your hands dirty on everything
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  and quickly pivot and innovate as quickly as you can based off
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  of whether you have a budget or not doing bootstrapping.
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  That kind of experience, you know, has been great and helped
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  me build a whole tool set that probably 1 of otherwise have
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  been able to acquire. That led me to Zimit, which the
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  time was services configure price quote solution and I was
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  given a three-year ramp up to build out my marketing team.
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  And within 10 months, I got the call from my CEO saying, hey,
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  guess what, we just got acquired by Work Day.
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  I couldn't tell you that beforehand because it's a public
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  company and now you're on the Work Day team.
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  And that's how I ended up at Work Day about four years ago.
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  I love that so. You've done the same journey I
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  have where you'll be at a small company and you have your hands
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  in everything and then you get. Acquired.
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  By a massive organization and you have to feel around find
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  your. Way.
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  So that's actually. A fun experience it's.
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  A little scary, but great to hear that you talked about.
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  Getting your hands dirty, click innovations, pivots, account
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  based. That's what I want to dive into
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  here. So most of us who have been in
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  marketing, especially in SAS and software companies.
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  We have lived. In the lead to MQL.
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  To SQL to. Opt to close one.
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  We've lived in that funnel. We might have had different
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  things. It was.
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  Called, but we've always. Tried to drive MQLS or SQLS and
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  then along came account. Based to say hey.
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  In addition to the massive quantities of leaves that we're
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  trying to keep in the funnel and not have any leaky stages in the
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  journey. Let's figure out.
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  How to spend more time and money with the most important accounts
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  and then try to do that at. Scale, so I'd love to.
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  Know. What drew?
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  You to account based and how have you changed your
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  perspective on it over time with the impact that you've seen?
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  Yeah. I think like I said about the
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  the innovation at the startups, it's like I would plan a
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  strategy, I would build the marketing plan for a year,
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  knowing that within three months we'll completely pivot and move
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  away from that plan because we've latched on to something
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  that that worked or or something has come up innovation or
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  whatever that that we realize we have to start focusing on.
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  So years ago, working at SAP Business 1 Reseller, we had done
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  a lot of research and realized that hey, you know what, most of
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  the small businesses that we're targeting are QuickBooks users.
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  So let's start focusing on companies within this revenue
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  range that are still on QuickBooks.
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  So we would buy the list whether they were active or not, and
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  start running more targeted programs to the business owner
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  because most likely they didn't have a gatekeeper.
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  So we were looking, looking at CE OS up to you know, maybe
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  25,000,000 in revenue at the time.
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  And we started to shape our program around all of the pain
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  points that the small business owners are experiencing.
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  And it really struck a nerve start to notice that it starts
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  to have an impact on the number of leads that we are generating,
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  being really targeted with that. And then that kind of carried
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  over into the next a couple of startups that I was at.
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  I was at one where we were focused on compliance software
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  and we looked at companies that have material weaknesses and
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  say, you know what, that that's a sweet spot because they have
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  to now show that they're doing something to address these
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  material weaknesses. And we started running campaigns
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  towards them. And all the, the e-mail nurture
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  programs that I run, I've always run them from my own e-mail
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  address. So anything coming out from
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  Marketo or anything, it comes back directly to me so that I
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  can see responses. Are we driving engagement there
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  are people coming back with questions, Are they angry that
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  we sent them this e-mail? Do they want to subscribe
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  anything getting that feedback? So with this program, we
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  targeted one company that the person responded back within two
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  minutes of the e-mail blast going out and she's just started
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  qualifying herself. And this is, you know, what a
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  large enterprise. Well, I don't want to say the
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  company, but well known, you know, 200 and 50 million plus
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  company, she came back and qualified herself to me over
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  e-mail explaining that they have to do something, they have to
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  show to the regulators that they're doing something.
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  And we went back and forth a little bit.
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  I turned it over to sales and our typical sales cycle was 6 to
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  9 months. That one closed it in three
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  months and it was all just because we knew these accounts
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  were having problems. We addressed it in our e-mail,
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  hitting the pain points and then that really just carried over
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  into seeing the engagement and had overall performance of those
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  campaigns. We're still running the general
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  campaigns to our addressable market, but the impact was
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  really coming when we start to focus on the smaller number of
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  accounts that all had similar issues.
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  I love that. I was trying to keep a straight
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  face when you said that all the e-mail replies come to you.
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  We're sourcing data horror stories right now.
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  I'm going to encourage. You to submit your worst story
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  there. When we finish.
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  This episode, but. I think about all.
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  The data we have access to good. And bad.
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  And we know that. For a lot of how we target it
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  could be. Garbage in, garbage out.
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  If we don't have incredible data, what are some of the
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  challenges that you've seen organizations, especially those
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  doing this? Scale like you are.
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  What are the challenges that they face in leveraging the data
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  to make account based? Strategies effective both.
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  In the smaller companies but also massive companies and
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  you've lived that. Literally at.
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  Work day like company you were at before, then into work day
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  doing the same things. Yeah, I can say that the
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  fortunately for being at work day, there are whole teams
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  involved in the data quality issues where that I had to
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  previously address such startups and it's gotten better at the
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  data quality that we're seeing overall just because of
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  solutions like Zoom info where you know we started using that
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  at startups. We're pulling in the titles and
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  roles that are addressable market and seeing that the
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  bounce rate of those was pretty low.
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  We were talking about like a 3% bounce rate where previously
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  when we were doing list purchases, you know, you're
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  looking at 2030% accounts rates. But then being able to see that
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  data flow, we target this controller at this company where
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  we think they have certain pain points.
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  And then all of a sudden we start tracking that data to see
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  we sent this e-mail, they clicked on the link, now they
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  started visiting our website, They started to come back to our
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  website. Now they downloaded content.
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  Now we invite them to a webinar. Now they're at the webinar and
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  we're like, all right, now this account is actively engaged and
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  here's who the SDR should be talking to at work day.
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  A lot of that is more automated now, but still we're focused on
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  the data that we're getting in through.
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  We use demand base, so we're setting up scoring models to
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  take a look at all the different types of data that are coming
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  in, whether it's through our website or Salesforce, to figure
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  out which accounts we should be actively engaging with on our
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  ABX team. So we're looking at engagement
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  minutes, where is someone responding to our emails?
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  Are they visiting the website? Are they showing intense signals
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  for topics that would be relevant to our solutions?
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  So it was a lot harder to keep that data clean at the startups
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  where you're responsible for, you know, garbage in, garbage
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  out. Whereas at work they don't have
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  to worry about it as much, which is pretty nice not to have that
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  responsibility. Yeah, totally.
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  You hit. On the example previously the
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  e-mail response 250 million plus company closed in three months
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  instead of the six to nine. I'd love to understand your
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  thoughts on timing. We've always said.
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  Since you and I were first in SAS.
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  Right message, right time, right play.
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  You know, like all the things, right person, all the rights.
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  That we've said. Very rarely is that delivered a
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  pun, but when you strike timing you see the examples like the
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  e-mail response and what happened there.
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  How? Do you think about timing and
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  the? Critical Role that it.
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  Plays an account based and helping to optimize when to
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  engage with the right person. Yeah.
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  I mean, with our pipeline predicts models in demand base,
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  we're able to get a better idea based off of the scoring models.
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  But before having a solution like that, that really gives us
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  that insight, like when I was at Zimit, we were busy trying to
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  make sure we had the most accurate data coming in, but we
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  were launching a solution in an area that didn't really have
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  one, focusing on services companies.
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  So there were configure price quote solutions, but they
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  weren't custom made for services.
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  So that's the niche that we were focused on.
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  And the game changer for me came when we start to pull intent
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  data that was given to us from Zoom info.
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  So that intent, I started to look at companies in our
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  addressable market that are showing intent for configure
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  price quote solutions. And let's pull the contacts that
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  we would target at those accounts and run them through a
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  little nurture or we're, we're pushing them to webinars based
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  off of some pain points. And at the time, so I was the
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  the first marketing director brought in.
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  So we were still in startup mode.
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  Obviously the pipeline was almost entirely sales driven at
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  that point. But then based off of just using
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  that intent data, those signals, we were able to bring these
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  accounts in and flip the pipeline pretty quickly.
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  Within three months became 56% was marketing driven now.
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  So we, we really started to notice an impact and the sales
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  reps were getting pretty excited about it.
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  And then we were acquired, we started to build up a lot of
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  momentum. It's always the best.
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  When that happens, right, we got it figured out and then it's a
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  great milestone to be acquired. But it is it is a little.
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  Like we've got this. So Craig, you talked about?
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  A lot of different teams and the size and scope of an
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  organization like Work Day I'm. Curious how to do.
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  Account based strategies align with all the other go to market
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  strategies so you have multiple teams.
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  Lots of folks. Doing different things but if.
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  You think about the data usage. And how you achieve measurable
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  results? How does account based fit in
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  with everything else? Yeah.
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  So someone on our team came up with, I think it was Matthew
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  Beller who came come up with an example of how we're a little
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  different from ABM and the demand Gen. overall engine.
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  We're on the demand Gen. side, we're focused on hitting
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  everyone. So we're the big box retailer,
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  you know, Walmart trying to bring in as many people as
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  possible. On the ABX side where we are,
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  we're focused on targeting the top 15% of accounts based off of
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  the model scores, what we call our FIRE scores that are showing
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  the accounts that are most likely in market for a specific
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  solution. And our goal is to reach the
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  buying committee members for those accounts.
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  And then the ABM team, which is focused on the 1:00 to 1:00
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  marketing, where it could be based off of likelihood of an
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  account becoming a prospect, becoming a customer, or it could
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  be nominated by an account executive.
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  But they're really focused on, they're like the bespoke
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  clothier who's focused on that white glove treatment.
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  Whereas ABX is more the personal shopper who you walk into the
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  clothing store and they'll they'll help you pick things out
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  that they think are right for you and then they go on to the
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  next customer. I think that's.
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  A great example and all the different teams working
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  together, sharing the data, sharing the learnings for.
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  The folks who. Don't have the big team making
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  sure that it's. All the best.
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  Data and that everyone is tapping into it in the best ways
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  how can businesses ensure that their data models are accurate
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  and actionable for reaching the right accounts and.
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  Preferably at the right. Time too.
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  Yeah. Well, I think what I said
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  earlier, garbage in, garbage out.
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  I had been at companies where we were purchasing lists of
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  accounts and contacts at those accounts and for the most part
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  they were junk. But it's also making sure that
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  if you are putting in an account in your addressable market, is
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  it really an account that you want to be targeting?
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  When I was at Zimit, it was my CEO who I had just uploaded 2000
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  contacts that accounts that, you know, he was personally going
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  through the accounts to determine which ones were in the
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  addressable market. So I pulled in using Zoom info,
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  the roles that we were going after and he immediately saw one
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  that was the wrong role that somehow got put into our CRM and
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  was like, look, stop everything you're doing.
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  I don't care about generating leads right now.
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  If the data that we're putting in our CRM is inaccurate,
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  everything afterwards is going to be wrong long too.
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  So that really hit home. Where was the first time where I
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  had ACEO who was not as concerned about generating MQ LS
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  at the beginning or or MQ as it was about the data quality that
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  was going in and making sure that everything was accurate.
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  And then after that everything was measurable.
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  So we will bring in analytics tools to you know, measure
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  website performance, e-mail engagement and try to tie them
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  in. We didn't have a tool like the
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  band base where we could automate the scoring of that and
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  didn't have the budget to bring in something like that.
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  But it was something where I would then have to dig in and
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  try to figure out, all right, these accounts are actively
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  engaging with us, here's how they're doing it.
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  And then pass that off to be followed up by our STR team or
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  or our AES if we didn't have an STR team.
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  And you know one thing I love about your team?
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  We were talking. About this.
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  Before we hit record, I think you have found that healthy
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  balance of personalization and relevance.
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  But also scale. And I'd love to.
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  Get your advice for. Organizations struggling to find
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  that balance. We typically see that.
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  Sometimes companies go too far in on personalization and then
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  it's too few accounts which can be amazing on the right team.
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  And then we have the other end of the spectrum where?
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  If you're too scaled. You're really not personalized
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  and that's more targeted demand Gen. an account base anyway.
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  What advice do you have to? Find that perfect point in the
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  middle. Well, I think looking at some of
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  the programs that have run previously, we used a lot more
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  one to many type programs where we cut out the templates and
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  made it look like it was an Outlook e-mail and made it look
• 16:53
  like it was 1 to 1 even though it was 1 to many and actually
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  started getting a lot more feedback on those emails.
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  There were people who would respond back to something like a
• 17:04
  webinar invite and say, oh, this sounds interesting, but I'm not
• 17:08
  able to make it. And then, you know, I could
• 17:10
  reply back as they'll we'll send it to you on demand or they'll
• 17:13
  just come back and say I'm not in the right role.
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  I'm a controller, but I'm a, an air traffic controller, not a
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  financial controller. You know, some corks like that
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  with the data that comes out. So we would get the instant
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  feedback on some of these programs and some of the
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  programs, you know, I remember running a Fudd program that we
• 17:33
  talked about a missing PO just to kind of hit home the the idea
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  that your processes can be improved through automation and
• 17:43
  you're panicked about receiving an e-mail like this.
• 17:45
  But you don't have to be because, you know, if you use
• 17:48
  our solution and you don't have to worry about it.
• 17:51
  And I remember one CEO responded back pretty angry about that,
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  that e-mail. And I was like, I would have
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  never gotten that feedback otherwise.
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  And after that, we didn't do those type of FUD campaigns
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  again because we are getting the instant feedback at work day.
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  It's something where on the ABX side where we made personal
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  personalized based off of your, your role or the industry that
• 18:16
  you're in. But we're trying to drive
• 18:18
  engagement with the buying committee members and then
• 18:21
  either pass them off where they, they MQL and, and go into the
• 18:26
  SDRS for follow up, or it goes into an e-mail nurture based off
• 18:31
  of where we think they are in their buyer's journey.
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  And that e-mail nurture is coming through a different team
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  where it's just trying to kind of figure out where they fit in
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  that buyer's journey and give them the right content at the
• 18:44
  right time. So it did take some a little bit
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  further. And then if they come to certain
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  pages on the website, then all of a sudden it's, you know,
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  they're getting more personalized messages.
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  And then if they engage with the O chatbot through us, then all
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  of a sudden it's sounds even more 1 to 1.
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  So it depends on which channel they're being passed off to.
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  For our programs, they'll receive more or less
• 19:08
  personalization. Awesome.
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  I have one more question for you Craig, before we jump into the
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  lightning round. So this.
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  Is where I should. Probably put in sound effects
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  like something like that when we.
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  Get there fireworks. I don't know we we don't do
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  that, but it would be awesome. I can see it like who just have
• 19:25
  pyrotechnics in my office that. 'D be great the.
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  Question before. We get to that.
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  The it's already happening but how do you think AI is going to
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  change account based go to market?
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  Strategies. There's a lot that I've started
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  to do with AII mean it can help from anything from it won't
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  write your strategy for go to market, but it can help make it
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  more succinct. You can use it to bounce ideas
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  off of because it's analyzing a whole lot more data than then we
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  have access to and giving you some ideas based off of that.
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  I think that's probably more appropriate for smaller
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  businesses that are. Just starting out where you can
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  get an assist from AI to help create your marketing plan with
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  the help of knowledgeable people who can tell you if it's the
• 20:13
  right move or not. Where I am with with AI, it's
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  more about analyzing data that would otherwise take me several
• 20:21
  hours or several days where I can feed it into something like
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  Gemini and they can come back with analysis that, you know,
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  sometimes it's not accurate. Sometimes you know, you have to
• 20:32
  go through everything and, and double check to make sure it's
• 20:35
  giving you back the right information.
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  But it can come back with some pretty incredible insights that
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  you weren't otherwise aware of after it looks at that data.
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  So I think it can assist in various steps throughout the
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  process as you get bigger. But there's still something to
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  be said for that human element that that gut instinct too, that
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  you have a feeling that something will resonate where AI
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  wouldn't have that feel like. Yeah, I think that's perfectly
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  stated. You need that direction to poke
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  at and be curious, and then it can certainly help with the
• 21:10
  insights and what to do and making that easier, more
• 21:13
  efficient, more automated. Great response there.
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  This is the part where we. Transition into some quick.
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  Hitters. So these are really.
• 21:20
  Fast you don't have. To give us a.
• 21:22
  Long answer on these in the first, the challenge of this
• 21:26
  question is that you can only say one thing, but the question
• 21:30
  is what is the single biggest challenge in B?
• 21:34
  To B sales today. In B to B sales.
• 21:36
  Yes. So if you.
• 21:37
  Think of the seller. All the challenges they have.
• 21:40
  I still think it comes down to messaging, if you could have the
• 21:43
  right solution for a process suspect, but if your messaging
• 21:46
  is off and you say the the wrong thing, you quickly lose them and
• 21:51
  they go to a competitor. Yeah, actually had that
• 21:53
  experience that after a QBRI know you said one thing, I'm I'm
• 21:57
  killing the leg. But I was at a QBR and one of
• 22:01
  the things our CRO was talking about was, you know, all these
• 22:05
  prospects where we ran use cases for them, We showed them how
• 22:10
  much our solution could help, but in the end they didn't move
• 22:14
  forward with us. Yeah, we did all right in that
• 22:16
  QBR. But as I'm sitting there, it
• 22:18
  just hit me. Our messaging is way off.
• 22:21
  And that's the problem. And as we're going through, the
• 22:23
  QBRII was creating a whole new deck on how we're missing the
• 22:27
  mark with messaging and what we should be focused on and and
• 22:30
  presented that to the team afterwards.
• 22:32
  But it was kind of like something like that where it
• 22:34
  hits home where how much an impact the wrong messaging or
• 22:37
  the right messaging can have on sales.
• 22:39
  Totally. You and I aren't even opening it
• 22:42
  if it doesn't have the right. Hook so it starts at the.
• 22:44
  Very beginning, great stuff there.
• 22:46
  What about your favorite tools or?
• 22:48
  Technology that you're using, You've hit on a few, but what
• 22:51
  are some of the tech recommendations you'd make for
• 22:53
  our listeners? Yeah, I think it's different
• 22:56
  depending on what stage your company is at.
• 22:58
  I mean, in, in the beginning, if you're, if you're a startup,
• 23:02
  it's, it's hard to be able to bring in these more expensive
• 23:06
  tool sets where instead of using something like Marketo, you'd be
• 23:10
  using Casa contact instead. And instead of using something
• 23:15
  like the man base where you know you're able to analyze all the,
• 23:20
  the data of a prospect that you're that's engaging with your
• 23:23
  company or engaging with a dent, you, you might use something
• 23:26
  like Zoom info. I've been fortunate enough to
• 23:31
  grow with startups where I've been able to pull out something
• 23:35
  like Constant Contact and then put in HubSpot and then pull
• 23:37
  that out and put in Marketo. And then tie that all in and
• 23:41
  make the integration with Salesforce to see that flow of
• 23:45
  data going from your marketing automation tool to your
• 23:49
  enterprise CRM solution and seeing the impact and then
• 23:54
  continuing to grow and figuring out the best ways to integrate
• 23:59
  these new solutions so that we're getting the most out of
• 24:01
  that data. But in the end, it was, I had
• 24:04
  several sales cycles at those startups for demand base,
• 24:08
  especially when it was just the ad platform, but was never able
• 24:11
  to move forward. But yeah, I mean, this is the
• 24:13
  core solution on our ABX team and being able to see all the
• 24:17
  data that we're able to get out of this and target the right
• 24:20
  accounts and seeing the impact of targeting those right
• 24:23
  accounts. And I mean, I know this is a
• 24:25
  demand based podcast, but unsolicited I'm saying what a
• 24:30
  fantastic solution it is for us to be able to pull all this data
• 24:34
  and then use it for our own programs.
• 24:36
  Well, thank you for. That the next one, we're
• 24:39
  generous on this one, not just because you said demand.
• 24:41
  Base on the previous. One but.
• 24:43
  We call it Goodreads. It could be book.
• 24:45
  Blog, newsletter, Podcast video. What are the favorite?
• 24:49
  Content sources you're consuming today.
• 24:51
  You know what, the way there's all this targeting that's done
• 24:54
  just going on LinkedIn and the amount of marketing articles and
• 24:59
  white papers and resources that are put in front of you have
• 25:01
  been great. I mean, a lot of it is spot on
• 25:04
  with what I'm reading. If you want to narrow it down
• 25:07
  into some that I've read more often or like a Neil Patel blog
• 25:13
  or the Martech blog, things like that.
• 25:16
  And then some of the vendors, whether we use them or not, some
• 25:19
  of these marketing vendors demand base, HubSpot, Marketo,
• 25:23
  they have, you know, this pretty innovative ideas and and content
• 25:28
  that comes out to discuss. I know on our ABX team, I mean,
• 25:32
  one of one of our members, Matthew Miller that I think
• 25:34
  you've had on is always talking about the latest content that
• 25:38
  he's read and sharing it. It's combination of what's kind
• 25:42
  of being put in my feed and LinkedIn and social media, as
• 25:46
  well as what I look at and what others recommend.
• 25:48
  Outstanding. And you nailed people at the
• 25:50
  same time. So you gave us the two for one.
• 25:52
  Nice job there. Last question, most important
• 25:55
  one Craig, how can everyone get in touch?
• 25:57
  With you after this episode. The easiest way would be through
• 26:00
  LinkedIn. The address is Craig and
• 26:02
  Abramson when you're looking on LinkedIn.
• 26:05
  And for Neil, that's probably the the best way.
• 26:07
  I know being in marketing that if I gave my my work e-mail, all
• 26:10
  of a sudden I would be inundated with the sales teams trying to
• 26:13
  sell work day. So best post is LinkedIn.
• 26:16
  Awesome. Well, Craig, thanks so much for
• 26:18
  joining us it. Was really helpful I.
• 26:20
  Appreciate your time today. Yeah, I appreciate it, Chris.
• 26:22
  Thank you. Thanks for joining us for On
• 26:26
  Base. If you enjoyed this episode,
• 26:27
  please be sure to share, rate, review and subscribe on Spotify,
• 26:31
  Apple, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts.
• 26:34
  This show is brought to you by Demand Base, the only account
• 26:37
  based experience platform built for sales and marketing
• 26:40
  alignment.