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The Knotwood Story - Where Innovation Meets Sales Execution with Brendan O'Shea · Sales Trajectory Podcast

• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the sales trajectory podcast, where innovation meets execution in sales.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Jason Howes, your host, a 35-year sales veteran and lifelong student of the game.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: This podcast is for leaders and sales professionals with a growth mindset.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: You'll hear real sales stories about new products, motivating teams to prospect, and boost productivity.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: We dive deep into sales process, cutting edge tech, and recruiting top sales performers.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: Let's get started.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: Good morning to Brendan O'Shea, National Sales Manager of Knight, Australia and New Zealand.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: Brendan, how are you?
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: Morning, Jason.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: Very well, thank you very much.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: Enjoying this lovely Queensland weather that we've got over here.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: No more storms and hailstones for the moment, just sunshine.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Queensland.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: So you because you've only just moved over from Western Australia.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: Give us a bit of a rundown on why the move over to sunny Queensland.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: Ah, thank you.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: So I had a really good opportunity working with the Knotwood team.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I progressed with them.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: Started off as a BDM about two and a bit years ago.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: And it's very much a company that if you apply yourself, you have a vision, you back yourself, and you get that empowerment and trust.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: You can make it your own in a growing business and a thriving business.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: Went from being the WA BDM to looking after Northern Territory in South Australia as well.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: Saw a gap to look after the national BDMs across the nation.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: So started looking after them remotely from Perth.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: But then the next step, there was a gap of like a sales leadership from the higher level from head office to bring internal sales, our qualifications team, the external sales team all together and just align the strategy and the vision to where the company's going, our growth strategy, and what's next for us.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: Opportunity was a bit too good to refuse, and um and it was something that has been probably 12 months in the making of what does it look like, what does it entail?
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: And and the company has been so good to put the backing behind me and vice versa.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: So all in, moved across, and you know, we kind of just joke with my mates and stuff like that.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: I've done, I've got to move to the sunny Gold Coast.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, woe is me.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: But coming over here, I think one of the best decisions.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: I think being here now 10 weeks in the journey, loving the challenge, and yeah, onwards and upwards.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we've had the pleasure of working together as well.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, going back a few years ago, we actually did recruit Brendan, so that was a a good to uh to bring him into the Notwood team.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, my pleasure.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then we did some work with uh training and development, and then and now I've been helping Brendan do some recruitment work as well.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, Brendan and I, uh it's always good to to meet uh sales professionals and bring them into a business that's it's uh it's got a you know an amazing culture.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: And part of the reason why, you know, I wanted to get Brendan on today for for a number of reasons.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: But Brendan, just give us a bit of your background before Notwood, just so we can build a bit of a story on you know where you've come from.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, sure.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'll try and keep it as quick and as high level as I can and not just try and talk your ear off.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I've probably been about 15 years in the construction field uh in sales of some kind.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: So uh got my double major in marketing management and management at Murdoch Uni over in Perth, got that, entered the field just as a sales cadet in ITW BuildX.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: I've got a little bit of a taste for sales and went, oh, this is all right, this is interesting.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I got a couple of mentors, got a little bit of training, started making my own.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: As you do, you make many mistakes and you fumble and stumble.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: But the enjoyment of actually having face-to-face interactions and sales and having that satisfaction of being able to solution sell and getting and fixing their problems really resonated with me.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I pursued that further and further down the path of being with them for a few years.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: I went into the role form game with Metrol and went from account management to BDM, which I loved.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and next opportunity was in Laminex as well.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: So a bit of a different sort of side, more less on the transactional, but more on the specification and drawing out that primary demand and just getting my a bit more of a well-rounded sales approach and experience.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then I finally got my opportunity about six years ago to go in our first management position at Affinity Windows over in Perth.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: So as a sales and estimating manager, started with a team of six, so one in sales, a few estimators, and built it out to about a team of 12 or 13.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: So sales reps, itmators, internal salespeople, um, and helped increase the company's volume and sales moving from there.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: But again, another one of those businesses that you kind of you come in, you've got the basic foundations, they kind of throw the tools to you and go, if you've got a vision, we back you, we trust you, we'll give you some help, but make it your own.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and that's what really resonates with me.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want something that's already preset, running smoothly and perfect, and has no growth.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's got to be something that's a bit more of a challenge, something I can apply it to, something I can grow personally for.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: When it came up is I love working for Australian-owned businesses, Australian-made products.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: So if you go through my background of all my history, everything was Aussie product with the Australian branches.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: Some of them may have had overseas ownership, but most of it was Australian.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: But just that really does resonate with me, and especially on the residential front.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: I love when it comes to residential homes and construction.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: Commercials, interesting too, but it's not my most favorite um part of the game.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm learning and getting more um benefits and um, yeah, getting better in that space as well.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: But when the opportunity came up for Knight, it was kind of I wanted to pivot in my role a little bit more and try and take something a little bit different where I wanted to get back to actually more of the selling side of things, whereas before it was more of managing the team, managing the processes, which is great, but I wanted to actually just take a little bit of a step back, going to thrive in what I uh what I enjoy, which is actually selling and creating a sales plan and executing on it.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, started that with Notwood and the opportunity, it was just massive of here's a set of car keys, here's the overarching target, what do you reckon?
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: And that resonated heavily with me because I obviously went, no worries, just leave it with me.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: I'll make the case, I'll make the plan.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: This is it.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: If you back me on it, I'll just run with it.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: And that's how it's been pretty much the entire way.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: So with the higher ups and the board, it's very much so there to support their guide, they help with division, and they'll correct you when you're steering off the path, but they don't micromanage, they let you make certain mistakes, but they back you in the decisions that you make, which is just one of the one of the many reasons why I love working with this company and why I think I'll be here for a very, very long time.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting story.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: Just to double back there, what I like is you know, you've worked at a number of impressive businesses as well along the way.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: So you've had some you know a mix of experience.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: You mentioned mentors, you've had some good mentors, which I think is really important.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: And not only that, but I think you know what you mentioned just then is from my experience is what what they say is you you hire the best people and then you let them do their job.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that really hits home to me at the moment.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: And if I look back on my own career and what I did, I think you know that's the secret.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: If you if you're not hiring the best people to start with, well then you got problems.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: But I think on the flip side of that, what I love about Notwood is it's it's a good company and they on board really well because you guys, you know, you you bring everyone when you're on board, you bring everyone to the head office, you know.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: Talk to us a little bit about the Notwood culture.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, sure.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it's hard to explain because uh I'm still figuring out and still being surprised of it every day, uh every week, but in a positive way that is.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um this sounds corny and I know it's gonna sound like that, but Notwood really is like a big family.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: There's 160 of us globally and growing.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: The Galways who are the owners, so Darren Galway, as the founder and CEO, and his son Brendan Galway, um, uh who's my direct manager, they very much treat the company as their own specific business.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: They want to be involved, but they don't want to overstep, they want it to grow, they want to put themselves always back into it to make it succeed.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: But it's not just the actual day-to-day operations, they do that by empowering and trusting the people and making sure that the people that come on board uh are backed and supported, have the tools and resources that they need, they're properly listened to, and they always find a really strong connection with people that want to come on and treat the business as their own as well.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: So if you show that and go, hey, no, I want to take my role, stay in that lane, make that perform, and really deliver for the business and for the company and for the person beside you, that very much resonates for them.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: So they they really do treat it as a very much a big family organization.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: Very much um, they give back to their people when the when the sun's shining and business is good, they give back.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: They're very generous.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they always make sure they support with you know monthly gatherings and things like that.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: Always lunches, we've got the coffee truck coming, you know, three or four times a week.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: There's there's always little things that we just do that just don't have to, but it's always supporting and giving the clients or giving our team whatever they need.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, one thing I uh when we've worked together in the past, always love the you know, each year the birthday, you know, it's like it's like all the tools go down, we're getting all the team together and we're gonna celebrate.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: Just talk to us a bit about that.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's a bit of a unique thing.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: Every every year on if I'm not mistaken, I think it's the 16th of July, definitely July, uh, they do the Knotwood anniversary.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: So we just had our last one for the 16th year.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: Uh 16th, 16th.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and effectively it's booked a few months out.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: They book a larger facility.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I think last year was a star um casino or resort.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh this year was just down on the sunny coast and uh and the gold coast was some other resort.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but effectively it's right, it doesn't matter who you are, where you're from, what you're doing, if you're not an employee, tools down, we're bringing you over, we'll pay for the flights, we'll pay for the accommodation, we'll pay for everything.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: Just all we want you to do is just rock up.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: Just please come across and we'll put everything on for you.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: We want everyone to get together and just have a good time and just come back and just show the appreciation.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: And what's weird, or oh, this is so weird, but what's refreshing about that as well is during that time, it may be a day or two, or maybe like the weeks that are leading up to it, the talk of overarching vision and strategy and how are we doing on the numbers, you know, too much overtime over here, or what are we doing here or there?
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: That all stops.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's all about how are you going as a person?
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: Are you happy here?
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: Are you comfortable here?
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what can we do better for for you to make you grow and basically stick with us for a lot longer because we value you as a person, but they do that across the entire team.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's not the corporate sales talk or the you know how the figures are going or what eBay is going on.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: They very good at just parking that to the side, and it's almost like a big family reunion.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: That's the best way I can put it.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's just everyone has some um has a feed, has their drinks, everyone catches up.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's always really, really just happy, bouncy atmosphere.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: And and it's some of the opportunities that you don't get in other businesses, especially when you've got remote workers.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like me from I was the most most remote knot wood employee for I think 18 months being in WA and the furthest away, and we didn't have anyone in South Australia or Northern Territory.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: Having something like that that just comes out of left field and goes, Oh, yeah, by the way, we're doing the anniversary thing, yeah, I'm booking your flights.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: Where do you want to stay?
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like, hang on, what?
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: We're doing that.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: You seriously like, yeah, you know, it's like that's gonna cost you like 1500 bucks.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, I would want you over, come across.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: So for that, there's one thing that's really stuck with me where that's a part of it.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: But there's another way um of explaining Notwood's culture is I was the most remote employee for Notwood for 18 months.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: I could hand on heart say I never felt like I wasn't part of the team.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: Oh like never that I wasn't encouraged, welcomed, looked after, thought about.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: They never forgot about me.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: They always made sure they did everything they could to make sure I was included because the vast majority of the time, of course, I wasn't there at head office.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yet no matter what they did, any event, they always made sure that I was part of it.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: And same with the other BDMs as well, because we've got so many remote workers that they basically make a stance here.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't matter where you are in in the world.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: We've got US and UK and people flying to Mauritius and New Zealand, it doesn't matter.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: You're part of the Notwood family.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: We don't forget about you.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: That's a great story, and uh thanks for sharing that.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: Because I mean, for me, working and trying to recruit, you know, BDMs for you in the past.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's always that my passion sort of follows the the Knod culture as well, because I love talking to people about how good the business is and and why it's a good move from there, and all the people that we've and that we've recruited for you guys as well, too.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: They all come back and it's like it's you know, it's everything you said it was, and that's that's really impressive.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: Let's just flip through the specific problem that was identified in the market and how Knod became the product that it is.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: So Darren, the founder, had an ex-aluminium background and powder coating, but I believe he was traveling over in Europe, I think in Italy or Spain or something, and saw a bit of a product over there that you know, something that looks like um looks like timber but wasn't, and it was made out of aluminium, and oh that's interesting, and started sort of peeling back and started um discussing more and more and starting identifying what it was, and then realized that, oh, okay, here we go.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: We've got a product that can look exactly like timber or very, very close to timber, but we can apply it to aluminium profiles that basically replicate what we use in the market for timber.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: So if you've got situations where you're using timber on homes or commercial properties, whether it's in a bushfire attack level zone, so a battle zone, or whether it's in coastal environments.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: So the specific problem is basically to do with maintenance, to have something that you have to maintain far less regularly than, say, timber going out there every summer and retreating, sanding back, painting, things like that.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: So hence where the not willuminium product can come in, where instead of having to draw those finishings and everything like that, um, you can basically just wash it down, spray it down with a hose, maybe use a little bit of um dishwashing liquid or what you wash your car with once a year.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: Same principle, just to knock the salt off once a year.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: But definitely designed for those areas where hence why it was founded in the Gold Coast is high humidity, close to the coast, a lot of bushland and scrub around.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: So where anything that's near the coast, of course, anything that's timber just dilapidates very, very quickly, it groys off very quickly.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: Then you've got the other elements of if you're anywhere near um bushfire zones, you need something that's non-combustible.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: So anything that's aluminium, okay, ticks that box as well.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: You've got the other element, which is we're in a zone which has quite a lot of insects, some things like that.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: So something that's now insect proof.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: Also doesn't have the conditions of getting hit by the harsh Australian sun and warping, cracking, splintering, just discoloring, all of those sort of options.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: You couple that all in with a vast array of different colours, finishes, styles that you can have.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: And you can basically build it to what you want, to the systems that we have.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: So if you want a baton profile that just is a unique profile, put one side on, screw it straight through on the back, snap the other part on, done.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: All fasteners, everything's concealed.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: Rather than, again, with timber, typically speaking, you're seeing the fasteners, you're seeing the screws, you're seeing how it's fixed in a lot of ways, and just having more weak points, whereas our systems are more snaps together, everything's concealed, and it's not completely set and forget, but it's about as close as you can get.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: And something that you don't have to worry about, the scarcity of timber as well.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: So say if you want that particular timber and you can't get it for six months because maybe we can't import that particular type or the forest is on a bit of a hiatus to supply, aluminium.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: We can just keep producing and producing and producing.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: So um, and then of course the beauty of that is with having an aluminium product, you can just keep recycling it again and again and again.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: So whatever's there just comes back through to the mill and just starts that process again.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: The main thing, it comes back to a market that wants the look of timber but without the maintenance, and it just ticks that box nice and easy, set and forget.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's interesting, and uh thanks for explaining that.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: And then what I do like is what you mentioned before too, is that it's a system.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: And and I think that's one of the key secrets to producing innovative products these days.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: Talk just a little bit about the system and obviously so when you sell a project, what would that basically include?
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, of course.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I think, and not what started was very much as a finishing company.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: So we wanted the timber grain look, we wanted that style on someone else's product or on some basic aluminium product, so some slat fencing and things like that.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: But the company has since evolved heavily into have more innovative systems that can have a bat and facade, balustrading, a lot of different cladding profiles.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: That everything in the system is basically designed to be a big Micano set, effectively.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: Everything just snaps together, minimal products, very easy to learn, and it's really, really quick to install.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of this product is much quicker to install than the timber or composite counterparts, some of them twice as fast, sometimes maybe three times as fast.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: And you get those quick economies of scale of just you just rapidly just go through next, next, next.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: Before we release a system and come out with something, we don't just go, oh, here's some profiles, we've made the dies from the extruder, here you go, we attract the wood grain, finish on it, on you go.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: We make sure we get our engineering done, we get our testing done, we get the weatherproofing, the wind ratings, the water testing, all of that done.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: So that not we're not only just coming with a product or a shape that looks aesthetically pleasing, which of course is what most people I think think of not is that oh, it looks great.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: I want that on my house or I want that on my commercial property.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: The difference that we make sure we set ourselves is even though it's not identified right off the bat, but we go through the process and the rigorous testing prior.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: We get NATO accredited testing, we get all the engineering, we get all the wind, water, fire rating testing.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: And that way, no matter what project comes up, here's the testing, here's here's the accreditation.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: We stand behind our product, we stand behind the warranty, and we can sleep well at night knowing that the product will perform.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: And if it doesn't, we've got everything in place to make sure we can rectify.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: And that helps us make a really good foundation to build on and get that confidence in the market.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: We do hear a lot of stories, and I've seen a lot over the years where companies come in and they launch products, you know, they're difficult to put together.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of room where installation can be incorrect, which voids are warranties.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's really great that you've you've you've got that system.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: So just on the one, what is the warranty?
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: Up to 15 years.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: So typically speaking, if you're around just regular suburbia in a category one or category two environment for uh environmental corrosion, 15 years, no issue, go out the go out the front maybe once a year, just wash it down, knock the salt off, um, just with a garden hose, things like that.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's very, very minor.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it does have a progressive stage.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're a bit of a closer to the coast or maybe an industrial plant, or say the side of your house is next to a chlorine or saltwater pool, then it can go to either 10 years or seven years.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: But it just comes back predominantly to the wash down frequency.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: So say if you're right on the coast, you're down at um say burly heads or something like that, and the sea spray is coming in every day.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: You don't need to be out there every day washing it down or anything like that.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: But you just once every three months, just go down, wash it off, knock the salt off, make sure that's not sitting there and just caking in.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um and that'll be for uh seven years uh for that.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: But mainly the the warranty is more on the finish side of things, so it can go between finish to uh seven to fifteen years.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um but the actual structural integrity of the product lasts much, much longer, and that can range anywhere between about 25 to 60 years.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: I think our decking is actually 60 years for structural warranty.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: Most people in this sort of market for the type of product they want, it's all about the finish and making sure it doesn't grey off or you know discolor, I suppose.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's interesting.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um I was talking to someone the other day on the on the podcast, actually, and you know, you still a lot of people still have that focus on colour, like their flooring is black or and they want their decking or their cladding to to align.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: So talk to me about the options of colours.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we're not because I I believe you've got a very broad range of colours, but you've also got an amazing lady, and I'm gonna name her, yes, who looks after all your samples, and you guys uh do a great job in providing consumers or builders on what the product can look like.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: We're very heavy on the marketing space and sampling space, and the image and aesthetic is such an important part of the business as well.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: So that's what sort of has the flavour of why a lot of consumers pick not because of the finishes, but then the builders and the engineers and the assessors get the other side of it and go great, they get the colour they want, but they get a system that complies and ticks all the boxes that I need.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a win-win for everyone.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: But just specifically focusing on the colours we've got, it changes because we keep increasing more and more.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: But I think we've got about 75 colours in the range at the moment, which is different wood grains, stone finishes, stone effects, like a rust look, just a lot of different uh finishes that we have.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: But if there's anything that you say of, hey, I want to match my flooring to X, the odds are that almost every time we've got a colour or a wood grain that matches that that complements that.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: What is also a key advantage is we've got, say, that one wood grain finish.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: So someone might come in and say, Hey, I want black or I want Western red cedar or I want silver wattle.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no problem.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: And what would you like that on?
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I want it on my fencing, I want it on my safet lining, I want it on my internal cabinetry, and I want it on my um, you know, balustrade and screening at the back.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: No problem.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: We've got six or seven different systems that are all different, but we can do all in the same finish to entire that all in together.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: The colours are one thing that we have all of those different finishes of wood grains and effects, uh, but we also can do any standard powder coat colour as well.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: We've got quite a wide range of specific powders that we do, but also anything in your dual X range, your Axonoble range, we can do as well.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: And that includes under the commercial range, which can have a different warranty going up to say 25 years plus.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: But really, it's we definitely pride ourselves on having an abundance of good samples and extrusions and having that quick response time where people want to make that selection, whether it's an A and D, you know, so architect designer, specifier of any kind, or even.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Even if it's just a homeowner going, hey, I have a can't quite decide between Norwegian Beach and Hinoki, can I please have a couple of samples sent out?
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: And we send out a decent sized sample, an express airbag, gets there within a few days, and then they've got it right there and they make their selection because at the end of the day, we are a premium product.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: We've got to make sure we back that up with a premium service as well.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, no.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's uh the passion of um the sample you know area when I went in there was incredible.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's about let's yeah, we've got to get the gotta get it out to the the the clients and let them have a look so they can select what they want.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I love that.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: So obviously coming from a fairly traditional background, our industry, you know, you don't see a lot of people that can turn around and say, you know, we have more leads than we can handle sometimes.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: So talk to me a little bit about the magic of knotwood marketing and social media.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: So marketing's definitely one of our strong suits.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's kind of a a passion of the my manager, Brendan Galloway, that he's very much the marketing innovator on that side and technology.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: And Darren's very much on the innovative side for systems and products and things like that.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: But when it comes to the marketing side, nothing's I know this to sound odd, but nothing's ever good enough.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: We always want to get better and better and better at marketing.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: We always look at the big boys of what they're doing and go, why can't we do that?
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: Well, there's no reason why we can't.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: Let's do the next, the next, the next.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: And we keep putting that pressure on ourselves to get better and better.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: But we always got to keep the identity of having that premium identity, having it as accessible to the entire market as we can to see what you can actually do with the product, what um has a really good inspiration of seeing the great products and finishes in situ, but always throwing back to the partners that we have.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: Who is the architect on the project, who is the developer?
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: Even sometimes the homeowners even want to put up their hand and go, hey, I want to show that this is my home.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: I have so much pride and I'm so proud of it.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: Can I showcase it for that?
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: We've recently done a restructure of our marketing flow process and how we structure our website.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: So we've got a new website, how we structure that, how we go on our social media presence, whether it's Instagram, LinkedIn, everything else, is we go into three stages.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: So, first of all, we inspire.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: So we want to make sure that the market is seeing the finishes, seeing what you can do with the product, seeing the end result, and going, wow, I want that, or I want a part of that, or I want to replicate something like that.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: Then the next one is you go to the actual product suites of how can you get that?
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, well, is it claddings, is it in batterons, is it with decking?
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: How does that all intermingle?
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: How does that work?
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a bit more palatable of people thinking, okay, I know it's a cladding facade, okay, what can I do?
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: Here's a few options.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: But then you go to the next level, which is the heavily technical side and the specification and the certification side of that final layer, which most homeowners, consumers don't see, they don't need to see, but we have that backing depending on what clients that we're dealing with.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I think what's really special that I've seen in how we go to market and how we present ourselves as a business is we can pivot a lot depending on who we're marketing to.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: So your general, your general public, your homeowners, um, we make it very inspirational.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: Look at the look at the amazing photos, look at the amazing things that you can achieve with that, get their appetite up.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: But then on the other side, when you're talking to specifiers, designers, engineers, you're going down the path of this is a solution that can fix the um problem that you have or remedy the uh situation that you have where you want that look, you know you need that look because that's what the client has already asked for, but you don't have a solution for it.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: So we pivot it in a different way like that.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: But we've got a very, very passionate team of our marketing people.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I think there's a team of about 12 just in Australia alone.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: Half of them focus on more of the product side of things, the other half focus more on the website, the social media, the campaigns, the partnerships with our installers, fabricators, builders, as well as multiple sort of charities and things like that.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: So we always try to uh just keep that engagement and that capture keeps coming out.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: But because of that, we're very, very fortunate, and it's a good problem in sales to have, is almost got to the point where we have more leads than what we know what to do with, which is a great problem to have.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: So but um we've just got to make sure that the flip side is we service those leads, make sure we acknowledge, make sure we get back to them, make sure we, as you said before, make sure we're providing samples quickly and tying up with the right partners of which distributor should they go talk to, which installer should they go talk to?
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: How does this suit and fit for their products?
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: Because we've got such a large array of systems and colours and everything, it can be quite daunting to for some people to sort of um consume and and understand.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: So don't do that journey alone here to support you throughout that.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: I think that that's a great story in itself.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: And what I love about Knotwood and working with you guys is you yeah, you're consistently pushing to be better and and even to openly say that you've got more leads than you can handle, which a lot of companies would would love, even from a perspective of years ago when we started doing some work with the sales team, you know, you're still writing record sales and having, you know, this amazing growth, but the business still invested in their in their people and the systems and the the sales team, and I love that.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's so important to, and we're talking about doing more work again with the internal team.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: You're pushing for the the best practice and and that flows into the product as well, because the um yeah, the title of the podcast here is where innovation meets sales execution, and I think that's it's been perfect what we've spoken about because it's so important to align the sales and marketing and in our industry.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: Unfortunately, that's been a huge downfall.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: The social media component of what you guys do is amazing, and and I think you've invested in that and and you're really aware that the product needs to look good, but it also needs to solve those problems, and that is, you know, the ongoing maintenance.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: And we've seen I've always been a big person for you need to select the best product for the application.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: It needs to be fit for purpose.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: And as you said, whether it's near the beach or near the forest or near something that's going to cause issues, it's really the responsibility.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone needs to take the responsibility to to provide the best product.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: And unfortunately, I think our industry, and I saw something the other day, is that typically whoever's doing the construction, you know, can tend to pick a product that's quick and easy to put up, but then the poor person that comes along and moves into the house or buys the house later on pays the penalty severely because the product fails.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that classic example is, you know, like a deck without a roof.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's just really frustrating because the cost down the track is so huge because the wrong product was used in application.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I think everyone now is really embracing the knot wood product.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I love seeing some of the curved facades and some of the new things that it's doing now.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: What I've loved talking about you today is that you're obviously ticking off all those boxes for people to be able to get a really good product that that they're proud of, and it's really impressive.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thank you.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly as you said about the the selection of the products.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_01: I think where we've pivoted a lot more in recent years is going more to those key decision makers who are selecting the products who need those solutions to educate them to show what's available.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: So we're throwing back a lot into CPDs, for instance, doing a lot more of those this year and for years to come.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: But like BIM content files like for Revit, so more for the architectural space.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: So, but it's obviously one part of it, of course, is about generating more sales, which is always nice.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: But we want the right sales and we're really protective of our brand and our identity.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: Because one thing that's really resonates with everyone in Knight is we we know we've got a great product.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: We're very happy of that.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: We we stand behind it, we're very proud of that, and that's you know, we we love what we what we sell and what we have, but our product is only as good as the person installing it.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: The person installing it needs to take the care, needs to do the right the cuts, the right uh install methods.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: But that all comes from is it being is the right product being selected?
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: Is it being understood?
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: Is it fit for purpose?
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: Is the right installer coming across?
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: And all these other factors.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: We've taken it over probably the last couple of years to really take ownership and responsibility, I would say, of that entire chain to make sure that the right product is selected, the right application is being used, the right method of install is being applied to get the right outcome for the end user as well, because it's something that is premium, it is one, it just does need to, you know, stand the test of time and have that full, highly satisfactory experience throughout.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: One thing that I will share on that, and this is a it's a double-edged sword, I suppose, but when you're talking about innovation and other things that come up with different solutions, is we have so many people in our business that are heavily innovative, very creative, and don't like to take no for an answer when it comes to tricky situations.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: So when you're talking about curvatures of, you know, different facades of curvatures around it, like tight radiuses and different products, we get so many architects, designers, installers, fabricators, commercial builders coming to us that, you know, hey, I want to create this weird and wonderful thing and it's shaped in this most bizarre way.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: And we're sitting there scratching our heads going, how can we do that?
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: And they go, hey, you know, you technically can do it in timber, but we can't use tin because of this, or there's no other product that can do it.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: But for better or worse, we're very much a company that go, oh, let's give it a go.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: Let's give it a shot.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: Let's get some samples, let's get some stuff cut up, let's get the brains together.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: We're not going to commit that we can do it off the bat, but what we will do is we'll make sure whether we can or can't before we tell you yes or no, which I've always found fascinating for that because you'd think as the company gets bigger, you just want to keep sticking to your core business and just do what you do well, and then don't step outside of that because you don't want to slip up.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: But because of that, you can also get quite stagnant and you don't innovate, you don't push the boundaries, you don't see what can be done.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: So we get one probably once a fortnight.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: There's always something that comes in.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_01: Someone gets some weird curveball left of idea thing.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: But what's amazing is how quickly the company, like from all avenues, gets behind it and gets interested and excited about it.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: They don't want to go, this is painful, I don't want to deal with it.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: They just want to know how they can do it.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: They want to pitch their ideas of what they've experienced and they just want to be involved.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: They really want to get that outcome.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: And the whole thought of just getting the sale or or doing that kind of goes out the window.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's more of how can we get that solution?
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: How can we get that as the next product out there?
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: Because the best innovation that we have comes from our clients.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: So when they come to us and push the boundaries and say, Hey, can you do X?
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: And we take that on and go, we'll give it our best shot, we'll do this, let's go through a bit of a journey to see if we can do it.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: There's so many amazing things that we've done over the years that we thought, nah, there's no way we can do it.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: But because our clients inquire and push us a bit to do it and we take it on, that's how we get a product that we never thought we could do.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think that's the difference of having a growth mindset or a fixed mindset.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I I do love that about Knod because um, yeah, if you're not stepping outside your comfort zone and as you said, trialing and testing new products for innovation.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: But what I do love is again that it comes back to ticking all those boxes off.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: Look, I do really appreciate your time today, Brendan.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: I know we could talk for hours.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for sharing the the Knod story with us.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, if anyone has any questions from this, or I'm sure if you that I know I've looked at the new uh Knod websites, incredible.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: If you're using a product that's not ticking all the boxes, yeah, please reach out and connect with the team.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure they'd be happy to have a conversation with you.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: All right, so thank you very much, Jason.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um pleasure to be on online for this, and thank you very much for the opportunity.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_01: And and just in closing, as you said before, Notwood's in a very unique position where growth mindset is everything.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: We just want to continuously improve, continuously get better and grow.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, there's always an opportunity, and we just want to make sure that we can keep growing, keep pushing, and just keep getting better at what we do.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's why we love working with you guys, and we greatly appreciate the partnership.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: Got a product that's struggling or launching something new?
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: Reach out.
• 33:54
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