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Creativity, Data, and the Fight for Better Advertising with FIG · We Built This Brand

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Mark: What our tool does, and I wish there was more tools out
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there doing it, is increasing effectiveness versus efficiencies.
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Chris: Welcome to We Built This Brand, where we pull back
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the curtain on the people, the ideas, and the sometimes
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challenging process of building something that matters.
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Today, I'm joined by two leaders from Fig, the independent
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New York agency known as storytellers for the information age.
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I get to talk with Mark Figliulo, the founder, as well as Amber Higgins,
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their chief strategy officer, and we get to talk about how Fig reinvented
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Publix with the Make Things Special story, why one chapter was entirely
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made by hand with no AI, and how data and creativity actually work together.
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So without further ado, here's my conversation with Mark and Amber from Fig
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Well, Mark, Amber, welcome to We Built This Brand.
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It's great to have y'all on today.
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Amber : Thanks for having us.
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Thanks for having us.
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Chris: I'm excited to talk to you all about the work you are
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doing at Fig, and just to dig into how all that got started.
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So, generally, I have one guest at a time.
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It's always fun to have an extra in the mix.
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So, um, happy to have both of you here.
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When I start, I like to talk about where your origins are.
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So like w- how did you all get to the place where Fig was founded,
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and how did you all find your way to Fig? Um, so Mark, I know you're
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the founder, so, so talk to me about how, how Fig got its start.
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Mark: Uh, well, I grew up in the, you know, as a creative in the
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creative industry, so I've been doing this for, you know, decades now.
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And it got to a point where I was trying to figure
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out… I was at Chiat Day as the chief creative officer.
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I was trying to figure out, all right, what's next?
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And I, when I, I did all the interviews that people do, I was
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a global creative director by then, and I was shocked at how
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many all, you know, the big agencies, how many were identical.
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They were, they just weren't solving big problems from my point of view.
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They were just getting by and trying to get to the next day.
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And that's when I realized, well, if, if I, I either have to shut
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up and, you know, get in line or I have to start my own thing.
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And that's what I did, and it was the best decision of my career.
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So I'm thrilled, and I got to meet Amber, so…
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Amber : Eventually.
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Eventually.
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13 years in, but yes.
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Chris: Nice.
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So Amber, what's your, what's your story?
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How did you start and how'd you find Fig?
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Amber : Yeah.
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I, I've had a really fun time in this crazy business called marketing.
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Um, I have had the unique privilege of sitting
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in what I would say are all three seats.
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So I have been a client, I have been a consultant, and I have
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worked for some of the best creative agencies in the world.
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Um, and I think having such a well-rounded perspective on how hard this
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all really is, it should be fun and it should be easy, but boy, is it hard.
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Uh, and, and I, I'm thrilled.
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What brought me to Fig was story data and Mark, uh, and the way
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he thinks about creative and the way he really wants to champion
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creativity in a way that I think the independents are certainly
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bringing back, um, and the others have, you know, solely lost over time.
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So I, I, for me, it was that.
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It was, he doesn't talk about creative the way everybody else does, but
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he does the creative I've done with everybody else, so I know its form.
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Um, but I think it's really interesting to have a creative person
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say, "We don't, we aren't data. Creative isn't data, and therefore
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we're losing, 'cause we're not even in the conversations."
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Tell me more
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Mark: about that.
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Back in 2017, we started just really tagging
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all our creative and trying to understand it.
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Like, hey, this story's about this, this story's about that.
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You know, deconstructing creative.
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It was a very manual process.
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We didn't, we were just doing it to learn.
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But then as we did it and everyone kind of got into it, uh, it became a bigger
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thing, and it, the data started piling up in how we decode creative assets.
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And then we got to a point where, hey, why don't we automate this?
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So we, we built an interface, and we started, uh, collecting more and more data.
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It, it started being a real data set of creative data.
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And then just recently… So years went by, and we just kept
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on automating it, and all of our clients started using it.
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It's a really helpful tool to understand how creative
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works, how to make better decisions, that kind of thing.
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All of our clients use it.
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And then about a year ago, we, we brought on Richard
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Bush, who's our CTO, and he's taken it to the next level.
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So StoryData's just getting bigger and bigger and better and better.
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So it's becoming a really powerful tool that, uh, in the
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coming months you're gonna be hearing more and more about.
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Chris: That's exciting.
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So tell me, like, why is it StoryData?
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I mean, I, I've got some inference f- here,
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but I'd love to know, like, why that name.
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Amber : Yeah, I'll take it.
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Um, 'cause stories are really information.
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Right?
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Like, they are told in an entertaining way, sometimes with humor to
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be more persuasive, sometimes really emotional, so we remember them.
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Um, but they really sort of are information.
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Um, and stories are everything, right?
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Like we say, you can calm a child and overthrow a government with a story.
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Name something else that can do that.
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They're pretty incredible things.
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Um, and we're creative at, at our hearts and our souls and
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with our hands, so stories are our medium, if you will.
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Mark: I would just jump in, 'cause sometimes people hear data, even
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in the context of creative, and think we're building robots and stuff.
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It's really, how is creative gonna keep up in today's world?
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We all know AI and all that stuff, but how
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are we gonna interface with the new world?
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'Cause if we don't, as creative people, people who really care
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about stories, if we don't, the algorithms and the engineers
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behind them will do it, and th- I think that's very dangerous.
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They don't really understand the magic of
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storytelling, uh, or the intuitive pro- process.
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So we're doing it, and importantly, our
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systems leave a lot of room for creatives.
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It doesn't say this is good or bad.
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It says, "Hey, this one has a probability of working
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better." And the creatives and the planners and everybody
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work with it, not for it, and it's a huge distinction.
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So we're still committed to creative like we love, like we
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have loved forever, but it is changing, and we have to keep up.
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Otherwise, it's gonna change for the worse.
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Amber : That's one thing I would just add, is for me, it's taking a lot
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of the… You know, you've heard creative agencies and creative people
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especially say, "Just trust me." Like, "I've been doing this for so long,
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I just, I know what will work or what won't work." And having something
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where you can show a client What it will look like or what it could be
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in the context of what other competitors are doing, what other brands you
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might admire are doing, takes a lot of the subjectivity out of it, right?
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It, it isn't a creative selfish person telling you to do the
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thing that feels scary because it'd be great for their book.
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There's a real reason for it, you know?
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Chris: I, I, I chuckle at that 'cause I was just at a conference with a
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bunch of book writers and folks like that, so- … I know what you mean.
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Um, but yeah, trust me, bro, is not really a good-
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Amber : Not a good business model.
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Mark: It's how we've been running, though.
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It really is.
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And w- well, well, we go into a room, the same room, same people, but we,
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we say, "Here's our big idea. We love it, and here's why." And it just helps
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clients get a, a little bit more context, so how to be braver, how to do
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the, the things that you're supposed to do 'cause they can see it better.
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They can see it more like a creative person.
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Chris: And so just so I understand this properly, like,
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you're … This information that you have, it's, I'm assume, some
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hard data that you're able to then tell in a story-like format
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that helps them understand the reason for it being effective.
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Is that, is that a fair way to put it?
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Mark: Yeah, it's a good question.
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Like, I want to be clear that, you know, we use AI like
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everyone does, but we started, like I said, in 2017.
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This is a data set primarily.
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How we use it, it, we use it a lot of different ways,
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but I do think data is becoming more and more important.
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It's what AI machines could read and, you know, work with.
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If you don't have them, and we're all using the same
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AI programs, we're all gonna be thinking the same way.
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So when w- we approach it the same way.
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We use Claude and everything else, but we u- use it with
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our data set, and it's a world apart a- and it's consistent.
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So when we ask it a question, we get the same answer every time, uh, versus,
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you know, one time you do this, and then you get another answer the next day.
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Chris: I've learned with Co- Claude and a lot of these AI tools
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that context is king, especially with if you're using Claude.
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Like, the more context you feed it, the better answers you're gonna get
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back, and it really is a matter of what you put into it, so that makes sense.
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Mark: Yeah, and the other thing, when you think about that,
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and when you think about, okay, data's really important, what
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data do you think Claude and all the, uh, programs are using?
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They're using consumer data.
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They're using media data.
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They're using financial data.
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No creative data is out there.
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So that's, when I say it's a real problem in
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our industry, that's what I'm talking about.
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We have to supply these machines with
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creative data, and that's what we're up to.
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Amber : And I think the one thing that we can maybe say with words
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and you can imagine is we compare our creative data with media data.
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And why that's really important in today's world is
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because what you get served, and what I get served, and
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what Mark gets served are fundamentally different things.
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So sometimes our auditing capabilities are just really biased,
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whether we're the CMO or we're, you know, an agency partner.
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So you need a way of being able to see what, what competitors
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actually did so that you can see what might be driving
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success or challenges or failures even, um, and having…
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Like, machines are good at that.
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This is actually a really good part to give to the machine.
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Um, and we can illustrate it, and more times than
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not, what you get is you have a lot of assets.
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You're not spending that much against them.
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And then what you get to talk about is this is why best
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practices for things like social platforms and creator content
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are actually very misleading and leading to a ton of wallpaper.
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Chris: Yes.
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Amber : Right?
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Chris: That's, that's the best way I can respond to that one.
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You're, you're right.
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That, that makes, I mean, but, but all that makes sense.
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Like, I, I have learned even within our own business
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that there's a lot of information out there.
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Like, we- we're in podcast production, so, like, there's a lot of
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stats out there, but knowing what to choose, how to analyze it, how
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to understand it, like, it takes part experience and context, and
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then it also takes understanding what that information's about and
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that data to help people make good decisions for how to grow a show.
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So, you know, being able to, like, we've, we've developed
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some tools and things like that similarly to, I mean, not in
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any way identical to what you all are doing, but, you know,
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in a similar fashion, like in following that same approach.
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So I'm very much tracking with this.
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That's cool.
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Mark: Yeah.
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One la- last thing I'd say about the industry right now,
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it's pointing to, uh, AI for production, and we do that like
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everybody does, but it's, it's not a big part of what we do.
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But the reason they're doing that is to be more
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efficient, to reduce costs on creative production.
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I don't think that's a great thing.
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Sometimes it is, but sometimes it's not.
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And what our tool does, and I wish there was more tools out
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there doing it, is increasing effectiveness versus efficiencies.
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So, and again, that's something that a creative agency
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would believe in more than a media agency, for instance.
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So the, the, the battle's out there.
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We're, we're, we're coming for it.
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So it, w- it, it's, I think it's the big issue of our industry right now.
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Chris: I think that's fair, 'cause, yeah, you have people who aren't
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using context and are just asking AI for an answer on something, and
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they're getting, you know, some article written 20 years ago or 15 years
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ago on the internet, and it's pulling it in, and may not be good advice.
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Amber : Yeah, exactly that.
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Or you've seen trends in our business, right, where
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some, some kind of marketing gets really popular, right?
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Whether it was purpose marketing, you know, thank God that's gone.
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When, you know, it was entertainment's the new brand, right?
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Creation, creation, creator, creator, all the things, right, related.
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It, and it, it isn't true.
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All of those could be effective Um, so we need to, we need more permission
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for, uh, yeah, creative representation in all these conversations.
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Chris: Absolutely.
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So Mark, let's go back a little bit.
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You talked about founding Fig. Um, where did the name
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come from, and what was, what were those early years like?
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Like, what were some of your big challenges when you started the agency?
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Mark: All good questions.
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So it's called Fig, uh, well, t- I'll tell you the story.
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We used to be called Filio & Partners, 'cause we threw the name together in
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10 seconds, 'cause our first client was Sprint, and we had the whole thing.
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Uh, so it was a very unusual start.
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It was a very big client, so we had no… And then we went from zero to 60.
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And when I say we, really importantly, uh, Judith Carr
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Rodriguez is the CEO of Fig, and she was my partner.
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Three days in, I met her, and, uh, it's been great.
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We're like two coats of paint.
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Uh, and Richard Tan is our CFO, and he's another partner, along with Amber.
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So the four of us run Fig. So it, we got, we got lucky right
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off the bat, and then I got even luckier finding Judith and
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Richard, because without them I don't think we'd be in business.
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Like, I just didn't have enough bandwidth to know what the hell to do.
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I knew how to put a creative campaign together, but that was about it.
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And the three of us combined, we, we had a diverse approach
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to the business, 'cause Judith came from a digital background.
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So we, we knew how to triangulate everything,
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and I think that was our early success.
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And then it, it took off from there and it was really a fun ride.
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I had to m- be honest with you.
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And it, it went up, and there's times it went down, and e-
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even the downsides, you feel it, so you know, it's better
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than when you're at a big agency, you don't feel much at all.
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Like, y- all the bumps are smoothed out for you.
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When you have your own agency or a small agency, you feel
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the bumps, but that's, that's part of the joy, I think.
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And then s- so the highs are really high.
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Like right now, we're on a high
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Chris: That's great.
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Yeah, it's, it's fun when you're in those seasons of growth
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and expansion, and opportunities are coming your way.
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That's, that's awesome to be in.
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Mark: I realize I didn't answer your question, though.
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So it was called Figliulo & Partners.
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We quickly realized nobody could say my name, 'cause it's a hard one.
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F-I-G-L-I-U-L-O.
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Uh, so I grew up with the nickname Fig, and that's what we did.
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And importantly, we, at that point, this is about two years,
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three years in, we turn, we turn it into Fig the Fruit.
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That's our identity, our graphics, and that was intentional.
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It, it wasn't about me so much.
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I got it off the ground with my name a little bit,
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but it, the, this quickly became much more than me.
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So I think it's that more honest approach
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to call it something other than myself.
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But there's a connection to the name.
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Chris: Now that the fig is the actual fruit, the fig, is
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a part of your brand, like, how, how has that evolved?
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Because I assume the brand messaging probably evolves once you
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adapt something like, you know, a fruit as part of your brand.
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Mark: It adapted, like I said, w- it didn't mean me, and
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I was, you know, I'll, I'll c- say a traditional, you
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know, creative director from the brand world and all that.
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And with our, the people we hired, like Judith and
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Amber and everybody, came from very diverse backgrounds.
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So all of a sudden it wasn't about, like I said, me or my background.
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It was about all of us, and we were creating
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something very different and very modern, I think.
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Uh, and the, the, the name helped us do that It didn't, uh, define us too much
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Chris: And then, I mean, finding Sprint as an early customer, that's,
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that's always, you know, a great way to get a business started, uh Not bad,
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Mark: not bad.
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Chris: How, how nerve-wracking was that?
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Mark: It was crazy.
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And like, you know, most of this business is, it was luck.
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Like, I knew the right people from the past, and, uh, you know, one
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friend connected me to another, and all of a sudden I was in a room
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with the CEO of Sprint and pitched him an idea, and he loved it.
15:53
And away we went.
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It w- it was fantastic.
15:55
So and then, you know, a couple years in, we realized Sprint, at that
15:59
point in time, were, was burning through agencies, and we knew, okay, we
16:03
have to start our own agency before… This is our first and only client.
16:08
And we, uh, started pitching.
16:10
We, we, uh, won Virgin Atlantic and Spotify, and it, it was just a quick…
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'Cause we had that founding client, we had a reputation
16:19
immediately, so other brands trusted us a little bit more.
16:22
So it, it quickly, uh, it just took off.
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Chris: That brand recognition is key when you're early, getting somebody
16:27
that you can point back to and share and say, "We've worked with
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Sprint." I mean, everybody knows who Sprint is, or well, I guess used to.
16:34
They're not-
16:35
Mark: Yeah, exactly.
16:36
Chris: Used to.
16:36
You know, they're not around anymore.
16:37
I, I started my career in telecom, so I'm
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very familiar with Sprint and all that.
16:41
Um-
16:42
Amber : Same
16:42
… Chris: nice, nice.
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Verizon or?
16:46
Amber : Verizon, and brought Boost Mobile to the US and sold them to Sprint.
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Chris: That is incredible.
16:51
My story is not that cool.
16:54
I was working for Windstream Communications, so.
16:57
Amber : It's all learning.
16:58
Chris: Oh, it was a blast.
16:58
Yeah.
16:59
It was, um-
16:59
Amber : Telecom's fun
17:01
… Chris: but yeah, that's, that is a great place to be.
17:03
And then you- you've grown quite a bit since then, and I know
17:06
one of the things we wanted to talk about today is one of
17:08
your recent, um, campaigns that you all have done with Publix.
17:12
I believe the, the go-to-market plan was called
17:14
Make Things Special, or the, the strategy was.
17:17
So tell me, tell, just tell me more about that.
17:20
How did that start?
17:20
How did that come to be?
17:22
Amber : You said it, Mark, when you were answering the last question.
17:24
It's, it's relationships and luck, um, is the foundation
17:27
of most great things that are happening in this business.
17:30
Um, and for us, it was the relationship.
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I mean, it was love at first sight in both directions.
17:35
It was the perfect first date.
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Um, we really wanted what they wanted, um, and appreciated who they
17:42
were as a brand, um, and took the task very much to heart not to change
17:48
something that's been in business for so long, but breathe new life
17:51
into it, um, and really learn who they were and how they got here.
17:55
And we talk about it a lot, about, like, sort
17:57
of crafting the next chapter of a brand's story.
18:00
We're very respectful of the fact that brands have been around
18:03
before us, and they'll probably be around after they work with
18:06
us, and so we want to give k- give it great care while we have it.
18:10
And for Publix, it was that.
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Make Things Special was an elevated moment for them off of a line that
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they had had for, for some time, which was, "Where shopping is a pleasure."
18:21
Um, and they'd lived it and breathed it and built, built
18:24
themselves to be quite large and quite successful off of it.
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Mark: Yeah, it was the founder's line, right?
18:29
And he, he wrote it himself like, I don't
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know, 100 years ago or whatever it was.
18:34
Amber : Yeah.
18:34
But 100 years ago, the grocery market looked a lot different
18:37
than it does now, especially with the Whole Foods of the world
18:40
and all the, you know, Trader Joe's having a second coming.
18:43
Um, there's like quite, quite a bit more going on in
18:46
the world than there was when George started it all.
18:49
But yeah, we really honored the, the lineage and the history,
18:52
giving it, like, I would say probably, like, another breath.
18:55
Um, hopefully that lasts for some time, 'cause boy, are they fun to work with.
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Chris: How challenging was that, changing that tagline
19:01
from where shopping is a pleasure to make things special?
19:04
Mark: Yeah, I wanna be clear, we ke- we've
19:06
kept, uh, where shopping is a pleasure.
19:08
I don't think… Once you have a, a brand asset
19:11
that strong, you shouldn't just chuck it out.
19:14
What we did is we said, "Okay, how could it be more than a line?
19:16
How could it be your strategy, your positioning?" And so we
19:20
really deconstructed that idea, and if you think about shopping
19:23
being a pleasure, it's like everyday stuff made special somehow.
19:28
And that really is how they approach, you know, their service is like, every
19:32
little thing, just elevate it, um, a little bit and make, make it special.
19:37
So they're very good at making the, the things
19:39
they do, the service and the products very special.
19:42
We said, "Why don't you invite your customers to do the same?
19:45
Make other people feel special around the Christm- Christmas time,
19:47
for instance." Um, and you know, you, you do that with preparing
19:52
food for people that you buy at Publix, that kind of stuff.
19:55
So it just, all of a sudden it took what was already there,
19:58
like Amber said, it's, this is just the next chapter.
20:01
So we took what's already there, and we just broadened it, and so
20:05
everybody in the company could hold onto it and give it new meaning.
20:09
Amber : The reception, because we were so, uh, respectful of what
20:13
we feel they were still doing right and where there was room to
20:16
improve it, I've never had, and I've been in this business a really
20:19
long time, I've never had such wide reception on first view, right?
20:26
Oftentimes, you know, you might get a light pause in the
20:28
room, like, "We appreciate that, thank you," and then
20:30
the, you know, comments and feedback start pouring in.
20:33
Um, but this was, not only did we get it, like it made sense and we
20:36
understood the shift, but man, that's exactly what we need to do.
20:41
And that was coming from business line owners, you know, heads of media, people.
20:46
The really special thing about Publix that maybe is
20:48
worth knowing is everyone's been there a real long time.
20:52
Um, and people in their highest ranks there started
20:54
as baggers So they grew up in this business.
20:58
There is such an immense amount of respect and
21:01
appreciation for, like Mark said, all the details.
21:05
Um, so the line was part of it, but I would also argue that the way we
21:09
helped them understand how they would go to market through that lens,
21:12
so make things special as a core, core commitment and a core promise.
21:17
Now, now tiering, um, what they would advertise against three really
21:23
specific jobs to be done, for them reorganized the way that they market.
21:29
And that, I think, was as surprising to them to understand and want as
21:33
it was for us to, you know, wrestle to the ground and write and craft.
21:37
Um, and it has been a, a, an organizing, um, pillar for them as they
21:42
go through quite a bit of transformation, which any business still
21:45
operating today and being successful in these markets is having to do.
21:50
Chris: Yeah.
21:50
So you mentioned three very specific things.
21:53
What, what are those?
21:54
Amber : So one was exactly what Mark was touching on, which is
21:57
you have this incredible core value, and people have it too.
22:02
So the thing that Publix shares in common with its, um, customers is
22:06
that making someone else feel special means something to them, right?
22:10
It's, it's… There's a people who instinctively seek to
22:14
delight others, and they use food in the gesture of that.
22:20
Um, and so it works for Publix, why their, um, employees are
22:23
there, why, why… What they wanna do for a customer every day,
22:27
what a store manager wants to represent, and it works for people.
22:30
So we called it a, you know, an establishing a shared value Um, and really
22:34
making sure that people understood that, because Publix does cost more.
22:38
It is a, it's a premium-positioned product, which is not easy to
22:41
do in food these days, as we are all suffering the price of bacon.
22:46
Uh, and so shared, uh, shared value is one.
22:49
The second was not to take for granted that as they grew into
22:53
new markets, which they did not have 100 years of history
22:58
established in, we really needed to make our difference tangible.
23:02
So we needed to make sure that people understood, if
23:05
I said, "Why Publix?" They could list off reasons.
23:08
And so we said, "Don't underestimate for the markets that you've been
23:11
in, that people know this. You have to communicate it. You actually
23:15
have to talk about it," because we're trying to expand into new markets.
23:17
And even in our existing markets, there are
23:20
a lot of new people to those markets, right?
23:23
'Cause they're, they're South, Southeast, and
23:25
there's a lot of trend- people moving that way.
23:28
And then the last one was they're a grocery store.
23:30
This is a daily business, one in real time, right?
23:32
It is, will you turn left into my parking lot or right into Trader Joe's?
23:36
And so we have trigger, more time-sensitive reasons to visit.
23:41
Um, and those core pillars became why Make Things Special was the focus,
23:46
how we were going to deliver it, and how we were gonna reorient all
23:49
of their marketing endeavor against it, and it's been really helpful.
23:53
Chris: That's a big challenge.
23:55
Amber : Yeah.
23:56
Chris: You're not just changing a brand title, you're
23:58
actually, in, in a way, enabling some organizational change
24:03
and some shifts in mindset to really align with that brand.
24:06
It's not just a, a picture or an ad campaign at that point, and it's very deep.
24:10
Amber : Yeah.
24:11
It's, it was structural.
24:12
Well, well, well observed, for sure.
24:15
Chris: Well, that's cool.
24:16
So with this, I know there were three, I think
24:18
three different ad campaigns that you all built.
24:21
Um, I believe they were Merry Birthday, Best Friends, and Our Pleasure.
24:26
Um, so would love to, love to dig into those a little bit.
24:29
And how does, you know, one bre- brand story, you know, stretch
24:32
into these three different, um, campaigns and make them feel unique?
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25:19
Mark: Yeah, it's a good question.
25:20
The, uh, uh, as an example, our very first assignment was, uh, a Christmas
25:26
campaign, which publicly I, I have to, uh, give a shout-out to them that Mark,
25:31
our client, uh, built a really great brand with communications over time.
25:35
They were telling good stories, including Christmas stories.
25:38
He just wanted to upgrade it again, and that- that's when we came in.
25:42
Amber and I and our-- the team built this, this idea of make things special.
25:46
So the first story we told was Christmas, and we talked
25:49
about it in context of, well, who doesn't feel special?
25:53
And, uh, one of the creatives came up with a great- it was, his name
25:57
is Tom and Ke- Tom and Keegan are the creative team behind this.
26:00
Tom just came up with this insight of like, well, there's a lot of people
26:04
born on or near Christmas that just lose their birthday because of it.
26:09
You know, Christmas, you know, dominates their birthday.
26:12
And we thought that was huge.
26:14
So we worked on various stories, and we came up with one where
26:17
it was a little girl who was kind of pissed off at Santa.
26:20
She was like, "I've had enough. Uh, I, I just, I basically,
26:24
I want a birthday for Christmas." And we show Santa
26:29
stopping his sleigh going towards a Publix, and he stops it.
26:32
Publix gets not only all the stuff for birthday, but a special cake
26:37
that says Merry Birthday, and that's the big reveal at the end.
26:41
And importantly, we were able to, that cake that, uh, we designed with
26:45
Publix together, we sold at the stores, and it was a huge success.
26:49
So it wasn't just the film, it was a whole activation surrounding it,
26:54
and it got on the news and all this stuff 'cause we were doing something
26:58
special for people who needed something a little special that day.
27:01
Chris: Well, I thank you for that campaign.
27:03
My birthday is December 13th.
27:05
Mark: There you go.
27:05
Chris: My uncle's is December 21st, 24th, and my father-in-law's
27:10
is December 26th, and my sister-in-law's December 14th.
27:13
So I have a lot of December
27:16
. Amber : That we will send you a cake
27:18
. Chris: Yes.
27:19
Yeah, that, that story resonates really well with me.
27:21
So yes, we'll have to.
27:23
Amber : The really treasured moment for me was the CEO
27:26
then also went with his wife to the local hospital on
27:29
Christmas Day and delivered cakes to all the new moms.
27:32
I love that
27:32
Chris: so much.
27:33
Amber : Yeah.
27:34
That's awesome.
27:34
It was really great.
27:34
They really embraced it.
27:35
To your point, what a treasured moment to have something that we make, right,
27:39
which is commercial in nature, um, turn into something so much bigger than that.
27:43
Those are, those are the moments, you know, you hope for in
27:46
your career . Um, and we were lucky to do that with them.
27:49
And the thing to know about it too is they own Christmas.
27:52
If you fly to Florida to go see them, and you get in any cab or, you know, Uber,
27:58
and they say, "Oh, we're taking you to Publix." Oh, they're Christmas spots.
28:01
That's, the whole town talks about it.
28:04
It's like, well, I shouldn't say town.
28:05
The whole s- state talks about it
28:07
So it is not an easy bar to elevate is all I will say.
28:11
Mark: And that was directed by Seb Edwards, just for the record.
28:14
And that's another thing we, I do think the agency brought to Publix
28:17
is, uh, a quality of production Uh, 'cause it, we, we, when we first
28:22
met them, we all looked at the very best Christmas ads done around
28:25
the world, and one thing they had in common was they're longer than
28:29
the average commercial, and they're very high production value.
28:32
So we were committed to that, and Seb Edwards a great example.
28:36
The Best Friends commercial you're talking about, that
28:37
was, uh, directed by Mark Malloy, who's just A+ director.
28:42
And, um, Miles Jay is, uh, for the third thing we'll talk about, he's the
28:47
director there, and each of them are in top, at the top of their game.
28:51
So it's an important element of it.
28:52
Chris: Absolutely.
28:52
We've had, had the good, um, fortune to talk
28:55
to, um, the folks at Breakwater Studios.
28:57
I don't know if you're familiar with their work.
28:59
But yeah, that, that whole industry, like I, I love it when, when you see people
29:06
in commercial work that are really good at what they do, because it shows.
29:09
And being able to work with them and find ways to get them involved
29:13
in projects, I, I just think when you can do it is… I, I know
29:16
you know this, but it's worth every penny and every bit of it.
29:19
Oh,
29:19
Mark: absolutely.
29:20
Absolutely.
29:20
Chris: So the Merry Birthday campaign, that's awesome, and then Best Friends.
29:24
Tell me, tell me what the Best Friends campaign was about.
29:27
Amber : There's a connection there.
29:28
Yeah, and then I'll let you, I'll let you do this one.
29:29
There's a connection because, so they have
29:31
this stellar reputation for Christmas.
29:34
Um, and the, and our observation was, you need ano- we need another Christmas.
29:39
We need another moment in time where we go that
29:41
big, and we really start to establish our presence.
29:45
So strategically, it started with strategy.
29:48
It started with wh- where is this other moment where we can show up, and
29:52
it makes sense for business reasons, and what is our, what is our way in?
29:56
And we found, um, a pretty interesting idea around how communities, they're
30:03
a community grocery store, they grew up, you know, one, one town at a time.
30:07
How do communities show affection and, and engage?
30:11
And a lot of community efforts are around food.
30:15
Right?
30:15
So you have the neighbor moves in, you make,
30:18
you make something and you take it over, right?
30:20
Potlucks galore.
30:21
You start adding cultural nuance to that.
30:24
Different groups of people, different backgrounds.
30:26
Food is at the center of all of that.
30:29
Um, summer, winter, every time of year.
30:31
So, um, it started with this idea of we have the right to talk about
30:35
community engagement and, and community, uh, com- community comes together
30:41
around, around food, and we sell food, and we're a community grocery store.
30:44
So, uh, that's the strategy bit of it anyway.
30:47
Mark: Yeah, and that's where we take over and we say,
30:50
"Okay, community, neighborhood, uh, who, who needs to
30:54
feel special?" Well, what if it was a group of dogs?
31:00
And who do they wanna make feel special?
31:04
And it turns out they wanted to make the mailman feel special because they,
31:08
it was, there's some miscommunication, and they found out that the mailman
31:12
is leaving the block because they've been up to bad things with them.
31:16
And that, that was the story.
31:18
So it starts off with a, a community center, and it's all filled with
31:21
dogs, and we did it all with puppetry, like old st- old-fashioned puppetry.
31:28
Uh, and it, they look amazing.
31:29
It's really, Mark Malloy did a fantastic job with the craftsmanship.
31:32
And it starts off with these dogs having a meeting,
31:35
and they're saying, "What are we gonna do about Bob?"
31:38
Bob being the mailman.
31:39
Uh, "He's, he's leaving the block, and it's our fault." And they're like,
31:43
"Well, what do we do?" And then we do a series of cutbacks to them biting
31:46
his leg and peeing on his leg and eating his lunch and all this stuff.
31:51
And they're, they're like, "Now what?
31:53
How do we make him stay?" And the, one of them says, "I got it."
31:57
And he goes, "We're gonna bake." And so they go to
32:00
Publix, y- you see them with the bags and everything.
32:02
They dump it out, and they're in the kitchen of one of the owners,
32:05
and they just go to town trying to figure out how to make a pie.
32:08
Not very good at it first.
32:10
They learn it, and then you see them delivering the pie to the mailman.
32:14
And, and on the pie it says, "Stay." And then he's like,
32:17
"Oh, how could I leave you guys?" And, uh That's the story.
32:21
So it's great.
32:21
It's the same thing, is they're trying to make
32:24
someone feel better, and they use food to do it.
32:27
Um, so it's pretty straight story, but it's
32:29
really well told because of the craftsmanship.
32:32
Chris: So this was handcrafted, like no AI-generated content,
32:35
Mark: just- N- none at all, yeah.
32:37
The m- a touch up at the end, but um, each, each dog, we had I think
32:42
a total of nine dogs, and each of them had three puppeteers each.
32:46
So it was a significant production, uh, but it was fantastic.
32:50
They, they did a good job.
32:52
Chris: So from that one, I mean, you then move on to the Our Pleasure
32:56
campaign, and let's, let's talk a little bit about that as well.
32:59
What, what was really the, the focus there?
33:01
Amber : This one is what I was touching on earlier around, like, the pillars.
33:04
It's making our difference tangible for people.
33:08
Um, so this is now Publix's chance to say to its customers
33:13
what it's doing to make their time with us special.
33:17
So sometimes those can be really specific human moments.
33:20
Like, I might remember you don't like tomatoes on your sandwich because
33:25
I know you come in on Tuesdays, and you always get the same one.
33:28
It could be a long-standing tradition where they walk
33:31
bags to cars for people who need a little extra help.
33:35
Um, so the way they bag the groceries, which is my number one
33:38
complaint about Trader Joe's, um, is they do not throw your
33:41
fruit in the bottom of the bag and bruise it after you've spent,
33:44
you know, gobs of time making sure that you got a good one.
33:47
Every ounce of the store, um, the way they, you know, reorder things
33:51
on shelves, making them look clean and, and dusted and perfect all day.
33:55
You never see someone working there standing
33:57
in a corner, you know, texting on the side.
34:00
They are always looking after that store, making sure if someone's lost,
34:03
they take them to an aisle and show them where they can find something.
34:08
Um, all the way down to free cookies, which I grew up on.
34:11
I grew up in Miami, and we all know, "Can we go? Can we go?
34:13
Can we go?" Because, uh, kids get free cookies at the bakery.
34:17
Oh, yes.
34:18
Yeah.
34:19
Mark: And the scale of the stories are different.
34:22
Th- these are really s- you know, small little gems.
34:26
Um, like a couple of them are just one-shots, um, with
34:29
voiceover, and they have a really powerful, quiet vibe to them.
34:33
Whereas the Job One stuff, the stuff at the
34:36
top that we were talking about, are big.
34:38
They're expansive stories.
34:39
Um, they're, they are kind of crown jewels, but that
34:43
second layer is really important, and there's a lot more
34:45
of them, and it, it, the one-two punch is really great.
34:49
They do different things, but they do it…
34:50
It's, they complement each other.
34:52
Chris: And if I understand correctly too, this
34:54
last one was actually done on film as well.
34:56
It wasn't a digital, um, or it may have been simultaneously.
35:00
I know that happens sometimes, but-
35:02
Mark: No, it, you're right.
35:03
You're right.
35:03
It was shot on film, which is that nod to craftsmanship, which we have
35:08
in all of the productions, and, um, so it's important to us as an agency.
35:13
It's also very important to Publix because they put a lot of effort into
35:17
everything they do, and that, that effort has to include communication.
35:21
So production value and storytelling is very important to them, which is great.
35:26
Chris: As someone who shot film, photography, but not, not
35:30
video, but, um, who shot film back in the day, I understand the
35:33
value of having, you know, that negative too that they have.
35:36
It's like an archival thing.
35:38
It's, feels like you actually get a physical product from the work.
35:41
It's not just, "Oh, where is that in our Dropbox account?" You know?
35:44
Mark: It's the second client this year that we've shot on film.
35:48
So f- Benjamin Moore we did a spot with, shot
35:51
on film, and I don't think it's a coincidence.
35:53
I think it's a statement against AI.
35:56
When it… One of the things I never would've predicted is because
35:59
AI is so cheap and, you know, ready and, but not high quality,
36:03
clients are saying, "Well, I wanna do… I want to prove our
36:06
quality. I, I believe in craftsmanship." I didn't expect that.
36:10
I thought everyone was gonna jump on the bandwagon, and that hasn't happened.
36:13
And it's another reason we did puppets in a analog sense.
36:17
We could've done that with CGI, but we thought it was important to get
36:20
that craftsmanship, so i- I think craftsmanship is in right now, so.
36:24
Chris: I have noticed that's a trend this year, especially
36:27
with technology and things, um, as I was looking,
36:29
like, what's, what, what is everybody trying to do?
36:31
Like, in the creator space, what's being pushed really hard is
36:34
doing livestreams and things where you have a really hard time
36:38
faking it or using AI to prove it as, you know, anything but real.
36:42
And, um, yeah, I think there's, there's definitely a push
36:45
for that, and if you look at the consumer market, typically
36:48
when they find out AI is involved, there's a revolt.
36:51
It's not every time, and it depends on how it's handled, but, like,
36:54
you know, Coke has, like, doubled and even tripled down on doing AI
36:58
ads and things like that, and every time it comes with some level of
37:01
hate, some level of annoyance, and, you know, people kind of passively
37:05
accept it, I guess, but I don't see a lot of love for it right now.
37:09
And I could be wrong, but I don't see a lot of love for it.
37:12
Amber : Yeah, I feel like it went through a phase, right, where as
37:15
creative people with new tools, you wanna see what it can do, and
37:19
there was an, uh, a surge to lean in and be like, "Can it do this?
37:22
Can it do that?" So you could figure out where, "Oh, that's not good.
37:26
Don't do that.
37:26
Don't set this precedent." Like, we all had to sort of
37:29
form our own opinions, but I would agree with you now.
37:31
I feel like people's go-to is like, "Pfft, That's AI,"
37:34
and you're like, "No, it's not." Like calmed down.
37:37
Mark: Just to bring it back to what we were talking about before with
37:39
the story data thing we're doing, as an example on Publix or any of our
37:44
clients, we do not sit there and type in, uh, what kind of commercials.
37:49
We go do what we do, is great strategy, great creative, and then we s- we ask
37:55
the tool, we put our, our creative into it and say, "Hey, is this emotional
37:59
enough? Is it different enough? Is it…" So it's just like a, a guide.
38:02
It's not, uh, you don't, you don't get a output from it.
38:06
You just get like, yes, this, a probability
38:09
that you're, you're doing the right thing here.
38:11
I think that's very different than, um, how
38:14
a lot of agencies are using AI right now.
38:16
Chris: That's, and, and I think that's the way to use it, honestly.
38:18
Like, I, I think using it as a structural framework tool or to assist with
38:23
automations or to, to do things in that realm is where it makes sense.
38:29
But yeah, once you start making it, "Hey, here's the final product.
38:31
Oh, this was all AI," you start running into issues.
38:34
I mean, we're, yeah, you know.
38:36
And then of course you have the clients that want to stay cheap,
38:39
and they're like, "Oh, we'll just use AI on it," and then they
38:41
come back to you and they're like, "We did, and this took us
38:43
twice as long because all the input, all the outputs were bad."
38:47
Um, so yeah, so it just, it becomes a whole thing.
38:49
I mean, what, the horror stories this year are people going,
38:52
"Oh, we didn't get our annual bonus because, you know,
38:55
our boss blew the budget on AI tokens." And so… Right.
38:59
Mark: Right, exactly.
39:00
Whereas what, what we do is we have this data
39:02
set so, it w- that we've taken years to build.
39:06
AI is just helping us ask it questions You know what I mean?
39:09
That, that's all that it really is.
39:11
And then production-wise, we do, like I said, we, we do the prototyping
39:14
and everything, but I, we don't use it for final production.
39:18
Not yet.
39:18
It's not ready yet.
39:19
Chris: I mean, it's, it's definitely handy for people like
39:22
me who are stick figure artists when it comes to drawings.
39:25
If I wanna block out a storyboard for a client on something we're
39:29
working on, it's much easier to have a visual representation, but-
39:33
Mark: Yeah, exactly.
39:34
Chris: So Publix is really big campaign for you all.
39:38
What's, what's kind of on the horizon?
39:40
Is there anything you can talk about or anything
39:41
you're excited about in the coming year for Fig?
39:44
Mark: Well, we just dropped a new, uh, campaign for Tropicana.
39:47
I don't know if you got a chance to see that, just last week.
39:50
And it, it's a really fun one.
39:51
I think it's, uh, it's gonna disrupt the category.
39:55
Uh, it doesn't look and sound and feel like a orange juice ad.
39:59
Um, it's really different and, and it just makes a lot of sense.
40:02
Amber and the team came up with a breakthrough strategy on it of
40:06
that orange juice is actually how we use it for uplift, for energy.
40:11
And we took that, the creatives took that.
40:13
We wrote stories about it, but we placed it in the tropics.
40:16
So Tropicana in the tropics just makes so much sense.
40:19
But it just wasn't, it hasn't been done.
40:21
So, uh, all of a sudden it's gonna … The whole brand
40:24
has a new look and feel that I think is really exciting.
40:26
Chris: We'll provide a link to that.
40:28
I think we've got … I think y'all have some of that on your website.
40:30
We'll provide a link to that in the show notes for people.
40:32
That and all the Publix stuff, 'cause that's just, it's so fascinating.
40:36
Publix, actually funny side note for me personally, is we live in Tennessee,
40:40
and we, we used to go on vacation, we still go on vacation to Florida.
40:44
Florida is like, going to Florida and seeing a Publix is
40:48
like f- some- for my family for years it was like, "Oh
40:49
my gosh, they have a Publix." Like, it was a destination.
40:53
And then when they finally came to my hometown in Knoxville,
40:56
like, family was just like, "Oh my gosh, we got a Publix."
40:59
And now there's one on my drive to my parents' house.
41:02
So it's, it's become a lot more of our local story, so we don't have like the
41:07
… The, the history behind it for us is like, this is the vacation grocery store.
41:11
And now it becomes like the place we can go, you know, to get stuff.
41:14
It's well-respected.
41:15
You know, "Where'd you get that cake?" "Oh, we got it at Publix." "Oh." I was
41:18
Mark: gonna say, for the neighborhood, you'll
41:20
definitely get a merry bir- birthday cake.
41:22
Yeah, indeed.
41:23
Chris: Yes.
41:24
Yeah, I'm gonna have to go check it out.
41:25
Um- Yeah, and for all my family too.
41:28
Okay, so as we wrap up, I always like to ask, I mean, we talked a
41:31
lot about AI during this conversation, but it doesn't have to be AI.
41:35
But, uh, in general, with the trends and with things going on in the
41:39
industry, what are you looking forward to in the industry as a whole?
41:43
Mark: I was thinking about this, that you know
41:44
how in engineering there's front end and back end?
41:46
Yeah.
41:46
Nobody talks about or thinks about it, but that's where all the stuff happens.
41:50
And the front end's just kind of the, "Oh,
41:52
isn't this nicely designed?" You know?
41:54
I think the same thing's happened in our industry.
41:57
The creative's the front end, and we think that's what
42:01
everybody's seeing, and this- we're making all the big decisions.
42:04
Meanwhile, it's the back end making all the decisions.
42:07
And the back end is the, the programmatic, and it's, uh, tension
42:11
media, and it's, uh, traditional media, and performance media.
42:16
The media guys, you know, they've done a very good job at optimizing media
42:21
and getting attention of a client, making it cheaper for them to go to market.
42:25
The problem is it doesn't work.
42:27
It doesn't, it just doesn't work.
42:29
Not as effective as they say.
42:31
So they need the creative, and I, I hope the industry,
42:34
and I do see signs of it, are gonna come back together.
42:37
And creative does its thing with effectiveness, and media does its
42:41
thing with efficiencies, and together we could solve big problems.
42:44
That's what I'm excited about.
42:46
Uh, 'cause I don't think right now creative has the voice it used to have.
42:51
People like me could've g- walked into a room
42:53
at one point and clients would listen to you.
42:55
Now they're listening to the data, and we
42:58
don't, we the creatives don't have the data.
43:00
That's what I'm excited about changing, getting back in a room and
43:03
making creative the first and, uh, last thing that a client thinks about.
43:07
Amber : Yeah, that's well said.
43:08
I think for me it might be similar and, but I'm
43:10
gonna say it more provocatively because it's just me.
43:14
But I think we need to, we need a reckoning.
43:16
I think it keeps happening, and I think really big
43:19
headlines get found out, and people break really big stories
43:23
about the lies that are very lucrative in this business.
43:28
Um, and I like that we have a lie detector.
43:33
And I would like to, yeah, get in as many boardrooms and,
43:36
and conference rooms as I can to be like, "That's not true.
43:39
That's not true.
43:40
That's not true.
43:41
Look, look, look." Because I think it would help creative, and creative still
43:44
is a pretty phenomenal tool, uh, in the toolbox for businesses and brands.
43:49
Chris: What do you think is the biggest lie
43:51
in, right now that you see going around?
43:53
You're like, "If I could just stop it, I would stop it."
43:56
Amber : I think for me it's the black box, that you have marketers spending
43:59
enormous amounts of money, and they don't even really know what ran.
44:03
Mark: Yeah, on top of the, another lie I should say is performance.
44:07
Every- anybody who spends 10 minutes looking at it, it's based on clicks.
44:12
And clicks could be cheated.
44:14
The bots click for you.
44:16
So, uh, right off the bat you're looking at something
44:19
you don't really know what you're looking at.
44:20
S- that's a huge problem, and when I say performance, that's not the kind
44:23
of work I do personally, but that work is growing and growing and growing.
44:27
CMOs have to deliver numbers, and performance
44:30
is, you know, it appears the only way to do it.
44:33
So I, I think that's a huge threat, and it's based in large part on fraud.
44:37
Not intentional, but the result is a lie.
44:41
So it is something we have to solve, and I think everybody wants to solve it.
44:44
I don't think anyone's saying, "No, let us lie."
44:46
Like, the systems are just… They have, you know, holes that we have to patch.
44:52
Amber : Yeah, I would think that's that.
44:53
It's that we should all revel in the day where we don't
44:57
have to pass the tests, because the state that passing
45:01
the tests has taken our industry to is horrifying.
45:06
And really lacks inspiration and excitement,
45:09
and that's why so many of us are in this world.
45:12
It's… We are creative people, whether we hold the
45:14
pens and, and the creative or cameras, if you will.
45:17
Like, we, we all are creative people.
45:19
It's why we like it.
45:21
Mark: It's still there.
45:22
I mean, just today we were sitting around
45:24
with some of the creative directors and stuff.
45:26
We were all hanging out, talking about, "Did you see that spot?"
45:29
Like, I think we were talking about the Adidas spot with Timothée Chalamet.
45:34
It, it's amazing, and we were just like, "Holy
45:37
shit, did you see it?" It, it, it's still there.
45:40
Everybody just marvels.
45:41
When there's a great story, people just gather
45:43
around it and are jealous of it, and it's just great.
45:46
And that's still happening.
45:48
It's just we have to push some of these
45:50
forces back and let it happen more often.
45:52
Chris: So on that point of creativity, um, I have two kind of wrap-up questions.
45:56
One I don't normally ask, but I'm gonna
45:58
ask it anyway because I'm really curious.
46:00
Um, and that first question is, how do you stay inspired?
46:04
I mean, I find that creativity is something that you can't just magically have.
46:08
Like, you have to feed that engine somehow.
46:11
So how do you stay inspired for creativity within your own business?
46:14
Amber : It… I always go back to something I was told when I was a kid, and
46:17
that was I'd say, "I'm bored, I'm bored." She's like, my parents would be
46:20
like, "You're… If you're bored, you're boring." And I was like, "Ah, what?
46:25
What does that mean?" I mean, I just consume the world.
46:27
Uh, everything.
46:29
Pictures, books, I'm a big reader, movies.
46:32
You just… Ideas are everywhere if you go looking for them.
46:35
Even a walk around the block.
46:36
So you gotta stay out there.
46:38
You have to stay connected to the world and
46:40
appreciate its changes and just consume.
46:44
Uh, s- not, not stuff necessarily.
46:47
That's not really my thing, but, uh, definitely ideas.
46:50
Mark: Yeah.
46:50
I, I guess I would say hitting my head against the wall.
46:55
I, I'm really inspired by a problem, uh, and the harder the problem the better.
47:00
And once I have it in my head, and I think it's true of most- Creative
47:04
people in the broadest sense, anybody who works at a, a ad agency.
47:08
I think we're, we're those types of people.
47:10
Engineers are like this too.
47:11
It's like you throw a problem at them, they drop everything, and all of a sudden
47:14
they go from this to this, and they really laser point, you know, focus on it.
47:20
I love that process, and it's, it's the kind of thing
47:23
you stay up all night doing, not 'cause it's your job.
47:26
It's 'cause you want to solve the problem in an elegant way.
47:29
Uh, so that's how I get s- you know,
47:31
inspired, is just by figuring something out.
47:34
Chris: Well, and the next question, final question, y'all probably know this is
47:37
coming, but just wanna ask, um, what brand do you all admire the most right now?
47:42
Amber : Uh, I thought about this one a lot.
47:44
There's a few.
47:45
I really do thoroughly enjoy watching a industry compete, so I do like watching
47:51
Anthropic compete with OpenAI from an advertising perspective, 'cause boy,
47:55
do I miss those days when, you know, cars would fight for the, the moment.
47:59
Um, but for me, the most surprising one I saw recently, 'cause we had,
48:02
you know, the Olympics and Super Bowl, was ACG's return from Nike.
48:08
That was like… You were like, "Oh, I haven't seen that version
48:11
of Nike in a really long time." And it was culturally in the
48:18
landscape in a way that I just kept getting served and discovered.
48:23
It felt alive as work in a way that I was like, "W- who did
48:27
th-" I remember reaching out to everybody, "Who did this?
48:30
Who is in charge of this?
48:31
This stuff is absolutely amazing." So for me it was ACG.
48:34
Mark: Yeah, I started in the same place.
48:36
I have two.
48:37
So, uh, Anthropic or Claude is right up at the top for me.
48:41
First off, it's really good advertising from Mother.
48:44
Uh, they're doing competitive, really good advertising.
48:47
More importantly, it's a great product.
48:49
We use it all the time.
48:50
And then that third is the, the company has an ethos.
48:53
They do try to make good decisions.
48:56
At least I'm buying it.
48:57
Like they- they're, they're pushing back where they're supposed to push back.
49:00
All those things add up to what a brand story really is.
49:03
Uh, you know, advertising and co- communications are part of it,
49:07
but it's not everything, and when they line up, it's fantastic.
49:10
Oh, um, Squarespace.
49:12
Just, uh, David Lee is the creative director there.
49:15
Uh, he just hits home runs every time he gets to the plate.
49:19
And, uh, this past couple years he's just, you know, on fire.
49:23
And both brands, because they're so good, and they have that belief system
49:28
and everything, they know- they have the confidence in storytelling.
49:32
They really believe in their brand, and they're proud to do
49:35
it, and do it in a different way that really captivates people.
49:39
So, uh, bravo to both of them.
49:41
I think they're doing great.
49:42
I
49:42
Chris: mean, those are all really good brands.
49:44
I remember the Nike campaign, if it's the one I remember, was really impressive.
49:48
I was like, feel- you felt like Nike's back.
49:50
Like, where has it been?
49:52
But it really, it really felt like it came back.
49:55
I had the good fortune years ago to meet Stanley Hainsworth, who was part
49:59
of that team and everything, and I'm just… You know, there, there's just
50:03
a nostalgia with Nike as a brand, um, that I think a lot of people love.
50:08
And so to see them come back with that campaign was really great.
50:11
But yeah, those are, those are all awesome.
50:12
Well, thank you all for coming on today, and for chatting.
50:15
Um, if people wanna get in touch with Fig, or,
50:18
um, you all individually, where can they go?
50:20
How can they get in touch with y'all?
50:22
Amber : We are figagency.com, for those who are worldwide web inclined.
50:26
Um, and we are Fig both on Instagram, just Fig on Instagram and LinkedIn.
50:31
Um, Mark and I, and all the names he's, you know, shared with you today about
50:35
Fig are all contactable individually, um, in any of those platforms as well.
50:40
Chris: Well, thank you all.
50:41
Thank you all for coming on.
50:42
And, um, and yeah, we hope to maybe have you back someday.
50:46
Amber : Thanks for having us.
50:47
Mark: Uh, thanks for having us.
50:48
Yeah, it's been a pleasure.
50:50
Chris: Thanks for checking out this episode of We Built This Brand.
50:53
Don't forget to like, follow and subscribe on your player of choice.
50:57
You can also keep up with the podcast on our website at webuiltthisbrand.com.
51:02
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51:06
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