Latest / The b.reathe Blueprint Podcast / The Legs Are Always Kicking
Transcript
- Katie Harvey: Welcome to the Brieve Conversations. This series explores how people operate as responsibility, ambition, and pressure grow over time. These are not burnout stories and they're not about fixing anything. They're calm, honest conversations about awareness, capacity, and what helps performance last. Today I'm joined by Luke Green. Thank you so much for being here. Luke, how are you doing? Luke: Hi, thank you so much for having me, Katie. How are you? I'm good. Katie Harvey: Yeah I'm good, very happy to have you here. So just to start off with, why don't you give us a quick version of who you are, what you do and what does a normal week actually look like for you right now. Luke: Yeah, absolutely. So my name's Luke Green. I'm a South Yorkshire based ⁓ Airbnb management company. I've also got a property investment company. We've got our own podcast as well. ⁓ And pretty much a day to day or a week to week of how I run. It's it's nonstop. It really is nonstop ⁓ juggling two different businesses, juggling a podcast and trying to fit in. your normal day-to-day life as well. It's a lot and we've spoke before about needing to slow down and it takes its toll. So basically a little bit of a snapshot for where I came from. I'm from a hotel management background. So I used to manage Hilton hotels and Macure hotels in Sheffield Leeds and Dublin Island. And then during COVID really, I started to have a bit of an epiphany as to there needs to be more to life than running around like a headless chicken for the corporate, if that makes sense. So during COVID, everybody was furloughed. Everybody was at home playing Call of Duty or whatever everybody was doing. And I kind of jumped onto YouTube and thought, how can I get into property with very little money? Because I was at that stage, I was in a hotel management job, not massively well paid, always wanted to get into property. So I did that Google search, how to get into property with very little money. And I came across Rent2Rent. I came across the service accommodation model and I realized very quickly that I had a skill set from the hotels that I could introduce into the service accommodation sector as well as rent to rent, which was a strategy that you could get into with little, a lot less money than a standard buy to let strategy or a BRR strategy. So that was kind of where it grew. It started with one rent to rent. I then decided I couldn't scale a management business a little bit quicker than a rent to rent. So I started telling people that we're already doing service accommodation. I've got this skill set. Can I help you? And that grew very, quickly over the last three years to now we're managing over 50 properties across South Yorkshire and Derbyshire. And the rent to rent business has kind of scaled up as well. So we've now got 13 rent to rents. And then alongside that, I met my business partner who was a photographer who was doing the media for all of our properties that were running. We kind of went on like a house on fire straight away. He also wanted to get into property, it was a similar situation. So we kind of merged together and we started Olive Venture Properties, which is our investment company. So we're looking at buy to let's, BRRs, purchase lease options, all the creative sort of strategies that you do, well, that you can do in the property investment industry. And then alongside that, we've kind of thought, let's tell our story, not the people, not the fluffy stuff, not all the sunshine and rainbow stuff. Let's tell people how real it is. So we did our podcast, which is now on to 40 episodes, I think. And we essentially just get people on a bit like yourself. You've been a guest on the podcast and just tell real life stories rather than the stuff that makes it look all sunshine and rainbows. Because as you know, property isn't sunshine and rainbows. It's really, really hard. And it takes a lot of energy and a lot of time, which is why, again, we've already discussed off this podcast burnout. So here we are again I Katie Harvey: Yeah, one day, one day we'll get you having that structure around it. I don't know how many times we'll have the conversation first, but we will get there. So you've obviously had, you've had quite the acceleration in growth over the last, what, five, six years since COVID. Luke: We will. less, well yeah, mean, well yeah, it's six years now isn't it, that's flown to be honest. Katie Harvey: It has, it's gone really quickly. I mean, we started our property business literally just before Covid. So I understand kind of the pressures of when you had all of that time and then suddenly it's back to normal and it wasn't the same as it was while you were in Covid. Everyone had a lot more time and freedom with what they were doing. But obviously setting up the property company is one thing. actually making it work when you're buying, refurbishing, managing tenants, finding deals, doing the podcast, managing business relationships, doing all of that at once. What does that actually feel like behind the scenes? Because what you display on social media, you tell the real life stories, but of course everyone's social media is the highlight reel. So what does it actually feel like for you? Luke: It's stressful. It's hard work. It's stressful. It's you never switching off ever. Even when you say, right, laptops down for the weekend, you can't switch off because as you know, when it's especially when it's your own business, switching off means you're not aware of what's happening. And when, especially with the service accommodation business, it's a 24 hour business. And with the property business as well, it's 24 hour. So yeah, it's a lot of, a bit like a duck, yeah? So the ducks swimming along nice and elegantly, but underneath the legs are kicking really, really hard. And yeah, the legs are always kicking, always kicking. Even though I mean, I mean, I'm quite I'm quite transparent on social media and I say how difficult things are and how tough I'm finding things and I put a lot of the the crap that happens on social media, not just the good stuff. But yeah, it's a highlight reel. It's a highlight reel. And nobody will really understand. Even my closest friends or my family or even my partner. She will never really understand. what's constantly going on in the head. You're constantly planning. You're constantly. Do you know what I mean? Katie Harvey: Yeah, and it is, it's really difficult, especially when you're in a growth mode of a business. I think it's really hard to kind of step back and actually give yourself that space to breathe. And it's something that you do have to learn and understand and take it step by step because there's also that element of trusting that that's okay to do. and nothing's gonna set on fire, it's not all gonna collapse beneath you, it is still gonna be okay, but if you try and do that all at once, it's overwhelming, it's scary, the anxiety that you get from it is too much, so you do very much have to take it step by step when you're so involved from the get-go. Luke: Yeah. Yeah, I completely agree. I completely agree. However, I've never had the anxiety. I've never had the same sort of anxiety that I've had that I had when I was in a working nine to five because and I think that's because I really didn't like it. And subconsciously, I knew I was in the wrong place. I think I think I always struggled working in the normal nine to five. I've obviously always had the entrepreneurial mindset of obviously always been quite creative and I found that in all my jobs before going self-employed and setting up my own business I was quite restricted and I really struggled with that like I wanted to improve things I wanted to do things a different direction and when you're kind of pigeonholed you were kind of stuck in in their framework if that makes sense and I really struggled with that and I really really disliked working before if that makes sense and i well i didn't realize how much i disliked it until i'd left until i stopped and then i realized that all these feelings of dislike that i had were anxiety if that makes sense so yeah you mentioned anxiety but never quite as bad as what it was before Katie Harvey: Yeah, which is really interesting. It sounds like you were very good at what you did to get to the level that you were at, managing that amount within such a big, of widely known hotel chain. Like that's a big deal. So you would have had a lot of stress and pressure on that as well as disliking it. So I can't imagine how that must have felt while you were working there. Luke: Yeah, I think my first head of department job, think I was 20 or 21, which is really young for someone to head up a department of such a big hotel. So yeah, but at the time, you just kind of take it on your shoulders, don't you? And you just think that's normal. This is normal. This is normal. But as I grew up and as I got older, I realized I've got a lot of pressure on my shoulders here. Katie Harvey: Yeah, and you do when you're younger, you take every opportunity you can get, you don't have to say no, you think, this is amazing. Yeah. Luke: 100 % yeah, everything was yes. Yes. They did not even finish asking me, said yeah. Katie Harvey: Yeah, I've definitely been through that myself as well and you start realizing that the further you get into this journey, especially when you own your own business as well and you do realize you do have to say no to a lot more things in order for you to be able to say yes to the important stuff which I guess isn't as important when you're working for someone else because like you said you're kind of pigeonholed to do that anyway but when it's your own business, your own time, your own... Luke: Yeah. Katie Harvey: freedom, you do have to be a lot more picky with what you say yes to. Have you found that? Luke: Yeah, and to be honest, again, being transparent, it's only in the last 10 to eight months that I've kind of started to say no. Because before, when you grow in a business, you want to say yeah. You want to please the clients. You want to please the guests, the tenants. So it's, you think, your mindset is I've got to say yes to this, but it's only in the last 12 months, maybe 10, eight months that I've kind of said, or taken a step back and said, actually, I don't need to say yes to everything. I'm still working on it. I still say yes to a lot, but I've started to say no to a lot more as well. Or not necessarily a no, or it's a yes, but not right now, if that makes sense. Katie Harvey: That's amazing. Yeah, I love that phrase. Yeah. And I think that that's the key, it? It's just learning to say no. And also the more you say no, the more you see other people's reactions on that they're really disappointed and really upset. They kind of just say, okay, let me know when you're free. And that's like, someone recently said to me, I'd committed to something and I had to pull out. And they said to me, they said, I'd rather you have a happy no. than an unsure yes and then add to the workload and you not be able to commit to anything fully. And that was really good as well. It's like, say a happy no because that's completely fine. And actually everyone in the end will be a lot happier with that rather than kind of half-heartedly going into something. Luke: Yeah. Yeah, I completely agree. But it takes a lot to recognize that. Do know what mean? Katie Harvey: Yeah, absolutely. So obviously in your property business, you are in a business partnership with Johnny and that does add a layer of property that, sorry, it adds a layer that a lot of property investors don't actually have, which is working with someone else who I have a family business, so I know them quite well, but you're working with someone who you will still be learning stuff about each other every day, no matter what happens because Luke: That's right. Katie Harvey: you didn't know each other from the day that you were born. So how do you manage the pressure together without it actually becoming a pressure in itself to keep each other happy? Luke: Do know what? Myself and Johnny, my business partner, we're in a really good position that we're at the complete opposite ends of the spectrum, if that makes sense. So not just in terms of skill set. So 90 % of what he does for the business, I can't do 90 % of what I do for the business, he can't do. So we kind of work our way inwards to the middle and our mindsets are also completely different. So he's like, let's do this. Let's do that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm the one that's kind of like, that's great. But logistically and operationally, we can't do it that way. So I am the one that reigns him in a little bit. But because we're completely opposite, we're not we're not bumping into each other, if that makes sense. It's a really, really good balance that we have. And to be honest, I'm pretty blessed with that because there's other people that I know and I'm friends with and we're very, very similar. And I know for a fact that we wouldn't work well together in a business setting, if that makes sense. I would never be able to work with any family member because we're all identical. All our mindsets are the same, if that makes sense. Katie Harvey: Yeah, and it does present its own challenges when you've got similar personalities and what you've got is actually quite rare and to find it kind of first time as well is amazing and it's, I bet it's nice being able go on that journey with someone rather than on your own as well. Luke: Yes, 100%. And we always say like, if I'm having a down week or a down period of time, he just naturally picks the rest of the slack up and vice versa. And like, that's invaluable, to be honest, because we know that if Johnny's having a downtime, I'm picking his slack up and we don't even have to ask the question. can spot it if that makes sense. Katie Harvey: Yeah, amazing. I love that. And obviously you've spoken about, you're quite open about the fact that you are quite hardworking. You're on the treadmill like very often. You find it hard to switch off. Have you noticed any signs or signals that you have from your body for someone that is going too hard for too long? Luke: Yeah, I start getting agitated, really agitated. So when I know that I've burnt the wick too far, it's because everything and everything annoys me. And I know then, right, I need to take a step back. I need to take a couple of days. I'll jump in the hot tub, I'll jump in the ice bath, I'll spend more time on myself. And usually that kind of resets it. ⁓ And then I can go again. But yeah, for me, obviously, you feel more tired. Yeah, you feel like you start a task and then about 30 seconds into the task, you're like, no, I'll do that later. Whereas before, if I'm not burnt out, I'll start a task. And I'll not finish that task until I've done it because that's just how I am. But I know if I've not got the gumption to finish a task, I know that burnout's coming and then I'll realize that I'm actually exhausted and then I'll realize actually everyone's pissing me off. Does that make sense? They're my triggers. They're my triggers. That's how I know. Katie Harvey: Yeah, it's quite a comment. Yeah, and is it, do you tend to try and override it or did you used to now that you recognize that you do something about it? Luke: I used to override it. I still do override it sometimes if I know that I kind of have to because there's a deadline coming up. But if there's no deadline coming up and I start recognizing the signs, I will take myself back a little bit. But again, that's only a new thing. That's only in the last year that I've started to recognize it and started to think that burnout is just, I just assumed burnout was just I'm worn out, but it's not. It's not just being worn out. That's just part and parcel of the bigger thing, which is burnout. And until I recognize that, and I think that was probably on the first conversation I had with you about a year ago. And I kind of acknowledged that burnout is more than just being exhausted. Katie Harvey: Yeah, and I think that a lot of people do underestimate what burnout actually is and until you've experienced it at that higher level, it doesn't really make sense. And unfortunately, the problem with burnout is most people end up having to experience it before they prevent it. And it's not a position really, I want anyone to be in, but sometimes the reality is if you want to fully understand it and start doing something about it, you have to experience it sometimes and the ideal situation you don't, but so many people won't do the small things that you need to do before until they realize what it's going to cost them, which is why I'm so big on raising awareness around it. But you mentioned there that if you start feeling that you take a couple of days, you get in the hot tub, the ice bath, is there anything that you actually do every day or every week that you've learned you can't skip, any non-negotiables that keep you functioning? Luke: I'll be honest, my non-negotiable, I'm really bad at being consistent with my non-negotiables. I've set non-negotiables in the past and I said, right, I'm gonna do this every day. I'm gonna do that every day. I'm really guilty of not sticking to stuff like that. And that is my biggest weakness. And that's the thing that I'm currently working on most is having a structure that I stick to. and work too. And I think that's one of the main reasons why I'm going to be joining your blueprint because you're going to help me do that. I'm sure because that is my only weakness. I know what I need to do. I know why I need to do it, but executing it. That's my struggle and it's frustrating because when I know there's a non-negotiable in business or in work, I execute it and Katie Harvey: Yeah. Yeah, it's totally big. Luke: It frustrates me that I can't translate that into my personal wellbeing as well, because I know that I can execute stuff daily and I can do the non-negotiables when it's business related. But for some reason, I can't make that switch to personal wellbeing. Why? I don't know. Katie Harvey: Yeah. Yeah. And you're always putting yourself last and prioritising business. Luke: I've always done that. I've always put people, work, relationships, my whole life I've done that. My whole life I've that. Katie Harvey: Yeah, and it's so, so like relevant as well. Like I think so many people become that capable one, the person that can do it all, handle it all, do everything for everyone else, but slowly and quietly, they forget about themselves more and more and they become at the bottom of the pile, which is not where you want to be because ultimately you don't have a business if you don't have you. So it's so important that you do this stuff to not only enhance you, but the reality is it enhances your business because the best version of you turns up to the business then rather than the worst version. So there's lots of reasons why these non-negotiable slip through the net and why they don't happen. And a lot of the time it's because they don't see it as a priority or the fact that it's so easy to do, but so easy not to do, or that it's just not. Luke: Yeah, and that's exactly it. That's exactly it. Tomorrow, Monday, start that on Monday. Katie Harvey: Yeah, and it's we have these imaginary deadlines in our head, right? Like I always say to people, they're like, right, I'm going to start this Monday. And I'm like, but it's we're halfway through the last week, you still got five days till Monday, when you just start it tomorrow. And they're like, but Monday's a fresh week. And I'm like, but your brain doesn't care that it's a fresh week, you can start it tomorrow. And it's getting that ⁓ imaginary deadline thing, which a lot of people do it when they have kids. It's like, want to get this done by the end of the school holidays. It's like, why the end of school holidays? It's like an imaginary deadline that people have come up with. Luke: It's just a subconscious delay. It's just a subconscious delay tactic. If you really want to do something, you just do it now. But your brain's a very powerful tool and it will manipulate you. It will manipulate yourself. just subconsciously manipulate yourself. I'm aware of that. Katie Harvey: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, and it is difficult and that is why essentially people pay for the brief blueprint is accountability is you need that someone actually said to me the other day, they went, I went to do something and I just heard your voice in the back of my head. They're like, so now I even have your voice in my head when I'm doing something wrong. And I was like, that's, that's what I want. I want people to actually consciously be aware of what they're doing, rather than it becoming a subconscious act, even though in the future, they know that that wasn't Luke: Yeah. Katie Harvey: beneficial for them, but when you're not working, obviously you're very busy, you're very active, you're doing a lot, you're juggling a lot, but what does actual genuine downtime look like for you? Luke: I like to walk. I live in the countryside so I like to go on long walks around the reservoir, take the dog out and just chill out really. I love my movies. ⁓ Very rare do I. During the week, if I stick a movie on, I don't watch it. But at the weekends, I try and make a conscious effort to put my phone away from me, my laptop away from me, and actually enjoy a movie. When I go out on these walks, I leave my phone at home. Unless I'm expecting a call or anything, I will leave my phone at home or leave it on silent. But I'm a very simple person, to be fair. don't need much. I like my simple stuff. Katie Harvey: Yeah, and do you know what that's perfect like people think that downtime has to be spas, baths, like something fancy, something you've got to pay for, a walk and a film, like that is downtime and that is actually available to most people and it's free. You can go out there and do that. You don't have to pay for it and I think that that is really good downtime. Now, the next question is when you're on these walks. are you actually switching off or is part of the brain still running the business? And it sounds like you've actually built a habit around the walk at the end when you open the laptop. So your challenge after this is that you need to build a new habit for when you get back from the walk, whether that be you go and sit down in the garden for 10 minutes or you do something other than check the laptop just to break that initial habit that you've got. You've managed to build a, you've stacked a habit onto your walk, but it's not the most beneficial one that you can have. But it's not too bad in the week, it depends when you do your walk I guess. it's in the evening and then you get home and check in the laptop, that's not ideal. But if it's in the morning you would expect to kind of go into work afterwards anyway. Yeah, it sounds like you're getting the dopamine hit from checking the laptops. Obviously that's the anticipation chemical. It's like the pursuit of happiness, not actually happiness itself. So you've got it in your brain that it's going to give you a hit of something by checking it. And the reality is there's nothing on there for you to do or help with. You No, absolutely not and I bet you didn't when you were doing the hay tiles. So obviously there's gonna be listeners here who are still working, there's gonna be some that are full time in business, but if someone is listening right now and they're in a job that's draining them, they don't enjoy it and they've started thinking about property or starting something of their own, but they're scared to make that leap, what would you say to them? And not the motivational version, but the real one. Absolutely and you know what part of that as well is the connection you get an oxytocin release when you're around people that you connect with and it is difficult in business like it's not easy and when you I've got friends that aren't in business and I still love hanging around with them but I cannot talk about business with them because they just don't admit and that's that's exactly what you've just described is that having that connection with people that understand the difficult times someone to celebrate with when things finally go right it's It's having that community around you. Amazing. So what is the version of success that you're building towards now? Not the one that you thought you wanted when you started. Obviously that was to get into property, get away from that job. What do you want now? And what does success look like in a version of you rather than in aspects of business? Amazing. So your goal for the next couple of years is to get that two week holiday in. Yes, absolutely, definitely no doubt. Yes, no fires when you come back, it'll all still be there working for you. Yeah. Yeah. Yes, it's funny, you subconsciously become the biggest bottleneck in your business without even realizing it sometimes. And like you just said, you might even be able to do that two week holiday this year if you can manage to switch that mindset and fully commit to that being the goal. I think you can absolutely get there because I think the first step is kind of like being addicted to alcohol and drugs. It's like, The first step is the awareness, right? And once you're aware of it, all of a sudden everything you do, you become conscious of. So you'll do something and you'll go, that wasn't very good. I probably shouldn't be doing that. Let's learn to delegate it or let's unlearn that behavior. And all of a sudden you start taking these small steps to get to the right place to become that person that you want to be. And everything becomes clearer. So you're on the path there. And I know we've been talking back and forth for quite a while, but I think you can absolutely make that happen. Absolutely. Have you got any final sentiments before we wrap up? all right that's what we're here for just to raise awareness and hopefully anyone else that's in the same boat anyone that's going through what you're going through or been through what you've been through they now have someone to relate to they know that they're not on their own anymore. amazing so if anything in this episode landed I'd love for you to do one of two things firstly take the success hangover scorecard at breatheblueprint.com intro only takes a couple of minutes and it will show you exactly where your performance is costing you or you can grab a copy of my book the success hangover the Amazon UK number one bestseller wherever you buy your books and if you found this useful leave a review, share it with someone who needs to hear it because that is how we grow this. And if anyone wants to reach out to you Luke, how can they do so? amazing and you do have a great podcast so make sure you go and check that out. Amazing, thank you very much.