Latest / The Prompt / Ep. 585 | The architect CMO: Why operations, not ideas, unlock great creative

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Ep. 585 | The architect CMO: Why operations, not ideas, unlock great creative · The Prompt

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This is on base your one stop shop for solving your most
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pressing B2B go to market challenges.
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Each week, host Chris Moody and Paul Gibson talk to sales and
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marketing leaders to get you in depth insights and creative
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strategies to set your revenue teams up for success.
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Everyone, welcome back to the Home Based podcast.
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I'm Miros Chris Moody, and today we are diving into a topic that
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every CMO is thinking about right now, how to lead marketing
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in a world where creativity, operations and AI are evolving
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faster than ever. And our guest today is someone
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who has lived at the center of that transformation.
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Michael Miller is the founder and head of Creative at
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Consiglieri always worried that I'm going to say that wrong, but
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I love saying that word. Michael has seen first and how
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CM OS when and where they get stuck and has built a model
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designed to give marketing leaders the clarity, structure,
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and creative power they need to make bold moves.
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Michael, thanks for joining us today and welcome to the show.
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Thanks Chris. Thanks for having me.
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This is going to be fun. So excited to get into it.
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Yeah. Well, I'm pumped to have you
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here. I appreciate it.
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And I'm really curious, first, what inspired you to transition
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from leading major in house marketing teams to founding your
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own firm? And what specific challenges
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were you seeing CM OS struggle with that you wanted to solve?
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I spent, you know, the lion's share of my career on the agency
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side as an ECD, but realistic when I was I was at publicist
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Razorfitch and while advertising was a big part of what we were
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doing, really it was a lot of digital transformation.
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It was a lot of like work to help brands kind of evolve the
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way that they were looking at marketing advertising.
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And that's what led me to T-Mobile.
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So when I was at T-Mobile really was part of re engineering and
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reinventing the marketing organization inside of of
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T-Mobile and thinking about, you know, how are we going to
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operate inside of this newer kind of fast-paced world of both
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digital and social and traditional advertising all at
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the same time. And so throughout that
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transition to the brand side, from the agency side, still saw
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a lot of the same consistent issues in that brands were
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struggling with not only how to operationalize or how to, you
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know, kind of evolve their operations, but they were
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struggling with how am I getting the best creative out of the
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agencies that I'm working with and where's the choke point kind
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of through that process. And that's really, you know,
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when I left T-Mobile, that was really the start between
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thinking about what I wanted to do next.
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And I wasn't really sure I wanted to go to a, to a brand or
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I wanted to go back to the agency side.
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And so I was connected with a lot of kind of former leaders
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that I had worked with and a lot of colleagues that I had worked
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with in previous lives. And we'd all seen the same issue
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that CMOS were struggling with. How do I evolve the operations
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of what we're doing so that we can work faster, work smarter,
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but then eventually obviously make the creative better.
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And there were a lot of CM OS that a lot of companies are
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working with were struggling with.
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I don't really have a confidant. I don't really have like a small
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group of folks that I can talk to that will just tell me the
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truth about what's happening with this group or tell me the
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truth about what's happening in this part of the organization.
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And that was really the inspiration behind it was that
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that we knew that marketing leaders always need kind of
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someone that they can, that they can rely on to be almost an
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independent advisor, trusted counsel to help kind of make
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some of these decisions, operational decisions, decisions
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about the organization, decisions about to kind of, you
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know, creative strategy or, or marketing strategy.
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And so that's that's really what drove the kind of transition to
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thinking about starting our own, our own thing and working with
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brands in that way. I love that description.
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I was at a small firm called Topo before Gartner bought us
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and I, I would always tell our clients we were a revenue
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therapist, some kind of therapist for sales and
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marketing leaders, because that's what it was.
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It was they needed someone who was removed from their business
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but understood it well enough to tell them the truth, have the
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hard conversations, interview folks.
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So yeah, that resonates very, very strongly with me.
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And one thing that you often say I wanna pick your brain on this.
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You often say that today's CMO is more of an architect than an
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icon. I'm curious what that looks like
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in practice, especially as teams adapt to new technology,
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changing buyer expectations, and even the increasing speed of
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execution. It's funny that we think about
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CM OS were almost like the closest thing we have to
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celebrity in the advertising space, right?
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Because there are iconic CM OS that that are known for brand
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campaign or, or turning a brand around or some kind of, you
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know, large initiative that changed the the direction of the
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of the scope of of their success.
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And I think that has evolved a little bit to where CM OS now,
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the complexity of the role and the complexity of managing
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multiple messages, multiple channels and kind of running a
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365 offense has changed the nature of the role to be much
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more focused on not just a campaign or a, you know, a
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iconic kind of move for the brand to really running and
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orchestrating a complex organization that requires
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designing kind of not just the foundation, but designing kind
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of every the aspect of how that organization's going to operate.
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That's the part that that I think, and it's almost, you
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know, I think about it like a little bit of an architect.
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But then there's also an aspect of it where it's like CM OS kind
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of are house flippers too, where, you know, they're only
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going to be, they might be at the brand for only a couple of
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years and they need to retool the kitchen.
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They need to change the design of a certain space.
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They need to reorchestrate the way the house is designed on the
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interior and get it to a place where they can put it on the
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market and and flip it, you know, and I think there's a
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little bit of that too, where you've got to be able to
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orchestrate change that's short term, while at the same time
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creating the kind of the lasting change to the foundation so that
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the progression of the brand really is focused on long term
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success. So it's that balance between
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short term wins and long term success.
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And that requires both kind of this notion of like going to be
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a kind of a house flipper and an architect at the same time as
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opposed to just relying on that one kind of big campaign or that
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one kind of big brand moment. So that's the transition that
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we've seen in the in the CMO role over the last like 5 years
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is, is really the hard pressure on longer term success balanced
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with short term wins? Yeah, I think that's a great
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insight. And you know, if you want to
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start a show, we could do love it or list it for marketing
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team. So we kind of audit the team and
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then say like, you got to list it, you got to get rid of that
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or love it. Here's a way to improve.
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I, I like that notion a lot because the, the house flipping
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metaphor there or analogy, you said like house flipping.
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So analogy, I think it's so true because you have to come in and
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do a rapid assessment of what's working, what's not working,
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What do we need to change in the market and change it now and
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have the immediate pipeline conversations to satisfy the
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board and all the stakeholders and the CEO.
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And then to your point, you also have to be thinking, who are we
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going to be 5 years from now? What's our exit strategy?
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As you work with CM OS and help them to accomplish that balance
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of the short term and the long term?
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What are the most common blind spots that you see that
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undermine performance, whether it's unclear briefs, misaligned
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metrics, siloed workflows, or something else?
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Yeah, you know, it's funny, the entry of a CMO into a new role
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always starts with kind of like a grand vision and a like CMOS
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are hired for a reason, right? They're hired to bring about
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change and there's a new vision and a new strategy, etcetera.
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And so you talk to ACMO on their on their way in and their first,
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you know, in their first couple of days and there's a large idea
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and, and a strategy behind the transformation that's that's
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going to occur. You talk to them a couple days
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later and they're just like busy fighting fires, right.
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And like, all of a sudden, like all these ideas of things that
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they wanted to do and, and longer term kind of evolving of
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the brand and, and longer term strategy, they've all basically
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been thrown out the window in short term firefighting.
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That's the balance that we try to bring to the table is, you
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know, working almost with CM OS. Like we're trying to do their
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night job a little bit while they can, you know, fight fires
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during that during the day. Because I think that, you know,
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you hit it right on the head that the lack of clarity in the
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briefs or lack of consistency in the briefs, right, is part of it
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and the focus on what are the short term metrics that we need
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to hit. I always like to think that
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inside of any brand, there's a ton of metrics that the SLT
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wants to look at. But realistically, there's one
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or two, There's one or two big metrics that are the things that
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most SLT tables are focused on. And the CMO has to figure out
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how are we going to address and hit and move the needle against
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those, those specific mass metrics.
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And to me, that's the number one job.
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Like that's the thing that we've got that they have to focus on
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immediately. And so that's the figuring out
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kind of how to address that specific challenge comes up with
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a lot of operational issues that get in the way of that.
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I always like to say that brands are struggling with operating
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models that are sometimes 30-40 years old, right?
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Like in that we're designed, designed for the way advertising
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used to work and they're not designed for the speed and the
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kind of multi channel nature of the way advertising works today.
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That idea that I used to just have this one brief that was
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focused on a campaign and that execution would happen in the
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traditional channels of the television and and radio and
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print etcetera, etcetera. And then when digital came
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around, we bolted on a new operating model for digital and
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then a new operating model for social, and then a new operating
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model for influencers and then a new operating model for
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experiential. And all of a sudden, I've got 7
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different teams with seven different operating models that
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all need 7 different briefs that are working with 25 different
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agencies. And everything has a level of
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complexity to it that means that the work is going to suffer
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somewhere along that spectrum. And that's really the challenge,
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right? Is, is how do we get back to an
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operating model that's more cohesive to where the briefs are
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consistent, the agencies all feel like they're working
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together as opposed to kind of in these siloed arenas.
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And that's the challenge that CM OS are facing.
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That's the one of the biggest challenges CM OS are facing.
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And and it's kind of like this like hidden under the radar
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challenge of like all the operating models are a mess.
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And so their firefighting that they have to do is literally
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running from one meeting and one kind of orchestration to the
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next to the next to the next, as opposed to the leadership team
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being able to orchestrate that together around kind of a
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consistent way to operate by that.
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It's, it sounds complicated and it is complicated, but that's
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kind of the way that we're looking at it is that this is a
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long term issue that that needs some short term solves and then
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some long term redesign, right, to really look at that the
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orchestration of the of of how brands operate on the marketing
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side. It's kind of a billion dollar
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question. I will give you the the out
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first. So when you were talking about
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the firefighting and solving things overnight, I think the
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benefit of the T-Mobile and lots of the CM OS you get to work
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with and your advertising monetizing experience.
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A lot of those CM OS are brand driven CM OS and they understand
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how to build a brand and to keep the brand story going forward.
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I think there's been a massive pendulum swing in tech
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specifically maybe everywhere to over index on pipeline operators
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as CM OS. And with the pressure and the
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firefighting and the day-to-day in many instances and it this is
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me going back to analyst days, I feel like a lot of CM OS brand
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is number 22 on their list. And thinking about better
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creative, everyone wants it. They want it to look good.
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But part of the bad briefs and some of that I don't know if CM
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OS are budgeting the time to be more creative.
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So the the billion dollar question, I guess number one is
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do you agree with that? And if, if yes or no, how do we
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make that better as CM OS? Because IA, lot of times I'm
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just going to be brutally honest.
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I, I think a lot of marketing teams, it becomes an
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afterthought. And you may have some great
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creative things that go out, but it's not the forefront of how do
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we build the brand? How do we improve the brand.
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Now, if you're going through a rebrand, hopefully you get
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there, but then you settle in and it's like, let's not talk
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about that. Let's get pipeline.
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Yeah, it's such a multi layered answer to the.
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So I'll try to keep it. I'll keep it.
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No, I think that the first part part is that there's not really
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enough time taken in advance to planning.
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There's not enough time put against planning and really
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devising a strategy that's going to work for consumers.
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That's the hardest part is that, you know, the upfront planning
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time actually creates more time for the creatives down the road,
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because having a sound approach, a sound strategy, a sound plan
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that's based on actual insights that create the better brief
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that then will eventually lead to the better creative.
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Right now we're trying to fix the create.
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It's almost like trying to fix this podcast and post to make it
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sound awesome, right? Like we're we're like fixing the
13:47
creative and post to like try to make it re engineer it to what
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we now think the strategy is for the brand, because six months
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ago the strategy, we thought it was something different, but now
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we've changed our minds and now we're doing this.
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So we got to fix the creative to, to match where we are today.
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And I think that's a real challenge for a lot of brands
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is, is what is a lasting strategy and a lasting approach
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that then can cascade down to all of the different agencies
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that will really drive better creative at that part at that
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point. Because to your point, the, you
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know, being focused on pipeline, being focused on the
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performance, being focused on driving the metrics, that's not
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going to go away. That's it.
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That's the nature of, of the role today.
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But having that balance of kind of an operational mindset with a
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branding creative kind of view of the world and really
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grounding both of those things. And what is the customer
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actually what what is our consumer actually looking for?
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How are we really going to speak with them, create experiences
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or, you know, relate to them in a way that that's going to
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endear, endear our brand to them.
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Like that's the balance of the CM OS role is.
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And I think that's, that's the hard part when you focus, when
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you're putting CM OS in place that are purely focused on
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pipeline or purely focused on performance is you lose a little
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bit of that nuance of like the relatability to the consumer and
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the attention put to the quality of the creative and the
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attention to brand. So when we talk to the
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successful CM, OS have the ability to kind of straddle the
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line between those 33 elements of the consumer insights, the
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ability to to focus on creative, but also really understanding
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the operational nature of the role and how that the
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orchestration of that is really the power behind the curtain.
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Awesome. Yeah, that I think that was a
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really good answer. I mean, we tracked this at Topo
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and the better brands always outperformed the average brands.
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And that's not a scientific test because it's hard to assess.
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But then you don't fund brand, so budget goes down.
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It's like chicken or the egg. So I think that's a good
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approach, that balance. And, you know, I don't think we
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can publish a podcast if we don't say AI.
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So OK, we have to put in a few AI questions here.
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And it definitely feels like it's an interest topic that has
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moved to urgent for every single chief marketing officer.
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What are the questions that you think marketing leaders should
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be asking right now as they integrate AI into their teams
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and workflows? We have an AI lab, like an AI
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division of our group as well that we started a few years ago.
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And it's something that we consult on and, and, and deal
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with on a regular basis. I think philosophically, our
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approach has always been it's people plus AI, not AI instead
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of people. And I think that specifically in
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marketing that's incredibly important that all the marketers
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we talked to are strapped for time, right?
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Like nobody has enough time to do that, do this.
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Nobody. Like I'm booked with meetings,
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I'm doing this, I've got my schedule's a mess.
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I can meet with you in three weeks, you know, that kind of
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stuff. And like that's where AI can
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help. AI can help in from a marketing
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standpoint in making time more accessible.
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That's always the metric and life that everybody wishes they
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had more of was time. That's the only thing worth
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anything. And I think that's what AI buys
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specifically in marketing, but that's what AI buys you is time
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that a lot of the things, brief writing, scheduling, operational
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management, a lot of that is the that AI helps to streamline a
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lot of those things. And I think that's the main
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focus area that we're trying to promote is really focusing on
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how can you streamline some of your operations, streamline some
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of the processes using AI, not how do you replace creatives or
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how do you, you know, I think that's the thing that
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everybody's kind of looking at, like, how can I get, you know,
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use AI to cut my production costs?
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And it's like, that's not the area that's the most focused or
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the that's not where your big drain is.
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Your big drain is in a production cross, your big drain
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is in the operational inefficiency of your
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organization. That's the piece that AI can
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help. That's the piece where AI should
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be deployed. As a creatives and marketers,
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you see enough AI slop in all of our feeds, right, that we know
18:12
that the yeah, it can be done. Is it great always, you know, is
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it fascinating? Yeah, it's fascinating.
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Like, but AI try to replace creativity is kind of a bit of a
18:22
misstep, but I, I think everybody's starting to feel
18:24
that. So CM OS can really have the
18:27
opportunity to look at, you know, how they're deploying AI
18:30
in a way that's going to create time and create efficiency for
18:34
their organization and for their people.
18:36
That balance, for people to actually like be able to get
18:38
their jobs done effectively comes with having enough time to
18:41
really think, think about things and really think things through
18:44
and, you know, give full attention to the task at hand.
18:47
And I think that's where that's where we see from, you know,
18:50
where we're consulting at least on the the AI has a power to
18:53
really help. Yeah, I'm putting an action item
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on this. I mean, I need to build out an
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AI interrogation to build a better brief, right?
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Just just to your point, if we go upstream, man, that's such an
19:07
opportunity. Why haven't I done that already?
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Just you saying it, I was going to.
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AI is actually really good at asking those questions.
19:14
You know what, what should we better document?
19:16
One thing I'm very very curious about.
19:19
I have a lot of friends who have just started new CMO gags.
19:22
We have a new CMO here at Demand Base.
19:24
How should CM OS rethink talent and org structure in an AI
19:29
driven world? No, it's such a hard question
19:32
too, because it's almost the number one thing that that I
19:36
feel like in the last six months.
19:37
It's one of the main things that we get asked about is, you know,
19:40
that rethinking organizational structure and based on like what
19:44
can can we do with AI or what can you know, how is this going
19:47
to impact the role of different people's roles etcetera,
19:50
etcetera. I'll answer it with a non
19:52
answer, which is the org structure piece of it really is
19:56
almost the downstream thing to look at.
19:58
It's not the first thing. The first thing is process
20:02
operations and the quality of the work.
20:05
Like if I have fixed if I'm in the process of fixing or
20:09
understanding where my organization.
20:11
Is falling down where the the process where we're having
20:15
process issues or where kind of from an operational standpoint,
20:18
where am I bleeding time, bleeding effort or bleeding
20:22
costs that's going to help me better understand the
20:25
organization that I'm going to need to go forward designing an
20:28
organization without really understanding the end to end
20:31
process of how work gets from ideation all the way to
20:34
execution, you're just going to recreate the problem in a new
20:37
way. And I think that's the struggle
20:39
that that we've been focused on is, you know, the short term
20:42
wins are are non negotiable. If you don't deliver in the
20:46
short term for an organization, especially new CMO, if you're
20:49
not delivering in the short term, your lifespan is going to
20:52
be short at that brand. So that's, that's a non
20:55
negotiable. But at the same time, working on
20:59
understanding kind of where the operational pitfalls are inside
21:03
of the organization over, you know, the first three to six to
21:07
nine months in a role that's going to benefit you longer
21:11
term. Because then you'll like you're
21:13
actually able to address those issues with an organization
21:17
structure that makes sense. And it also helps with like, OK,
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I know where to deploy AI because I see where our problems
21:24
are as opposed to I'm just going to deploy AI across the board
21:28
and hope it works out right? Because I think that's a lot of
21:30
that's like, you know, you're getting SLT pressure into the
21:33
marketing organization of like, I want to see where we're using
21:36
AI. It's like we're using it
21:37
everywhere. And hopefully, you know, they're
21:39
like we'll see some positive impacts.
21:41
And I, and I think it, you know what, as with anything like any
21:45
new technology, that's you see that and that's OK.
21:47
That's the nature of our industry and it's the nature of
21:50
kind of the way brands operate. But a thoughtful implementation
21:55
of AI into the real struggle areas of process and operations
22:00
is the part that's going to that approach is really going to win
22:03
in the long term. That has been our opinion from
22:06
the start. But as we've seen AI kind of be
22:09
implemented inside of organizations, that is still our
22:11
opinion. This is the way to kind of do it
22:13
in a measured and really thoughtful implementation of
22:16
different tools. Yeah, I, I think that's great.
22:19
I have wrote down process operations, quality of work.
22:22
If you saw me jotting down, I was not zoning out, I was saying
22:25
that's because I literally, I have an assignment now to help
22:29
my new boss understand the work we're doing.
22:32
And that's such a good lens where I'm thinking, oh, I'll add
22:35
a second slide and just talk about things going well in
22:38
process, opportunities for improvement operations, same
22:41
thing, quality of work, same thing.
22:43
So talk about that versus just here's the people and what the
22:47
people do. So yeah, that's really cool.
22:49
One thing I'm, I'm curious about, I mean, I, I love the
22:52
people leading AI people plus AI, we talk about that a lot
22:56
too. I think the people will be the
22:58
biggest differentiator as we get better with AI because there's
23:01
so much knowledge AI is going to solve for.
23:04
But then who are you working with?
23:06
How are they thinking creatively, strategically, all
23:08
the things? How can AI unlock better
23:12
creative output instead of replacing it?
23:14
One of the areas that I personally love it for is for
23:18
concepting and spec work, being able to actually, you know, I
23:22
think back on my agency days of pitching and, you know, put it
23:27
trying, trying to walk into the room and explain to a new client
23:30
or, or trying to walk into a room, explain a new campaign to,
23:33
you know, and here are my boards.
23:34
And here are my, you know, and I think the ability to use AI to
23:37
actually mock up SPAC, show what, what's show the vision of
23:42
what I have in, in, in my head. You show the vision of what our
23:46
team has come up with. Not in a ready for, you know,
23:49
ready for production or ready for broadcast kind of way or
23:52
already, you know, ready to put out in the market like, but in a
23:55
way of like this is what we're thinking.
23:57
This is the vision that we have. This is the way we see this
24:00
progressing. I think that CM OS should be
24:04
demanding that their agencies come with spec work that's fully
24:08
visualized. It doesn't have to be fully
24:10
realized, but visualized for sure, because I don't want to,
24:13
you know, and Chris, this is where I'm a sound like an angry
24:15
old advertising person, but I do not want to read another
24:19
manifesto. I really don't ever like I just
24:22
enough like show me what you mean.
24:25
Don't read to me this like, you know, pontificating about what
24:29
my brand means. Like I want to see what what
24:32
your vision is for what it looks like.
24:34
I think CMOS are kind of in that same boat of like, you know, if
24:37
I've got a new agency and or if I've got a new team that's
24:40
talking to me about a campaign or a you know, this is what
24:42
we're going to do in social. This, we're going to here show
24:44
me what it looks like. And I think that's where the the
24:47
tools for AI really can enhance the creativity from that
24:51
perspective. And it allows me to very quickly
24:54
put my ideas into a visualization to where I can
24:59
show you what we're thinking and show you what we're talking
25:02
about. That's really powerful.
25:05
Awesome. Yeah, note to self, stop working
25:07
on the manifesto. No, just kidding.
25:11
I have done them before. But I I totally get your point.
25:13
And I mean, just the ability to conceptually show things is such
25:18
a better start than absolutely. Hey read all my words.
25:21
We worked at T-Mobile. I had a agency that would go out
25:26
and shoot spec work and bring it in.
25:29
It was more of a is a Hollywood production group than it than an
25:32
agency and they would bring in spec work and show it as part of
25:35
their pitch. They were like, this is what we
25:37
want to do. We we went out and shot it on,
25:39
you know, we use phones and whatever, and we just went out
25:41
and shot it and brought it in. And I think the ability to
25:44
bring, you know, that's a powerful move and the ability to
25:47
do that and come into the room with, with a vision for what
25:51
we're going to do or what they want to want to show.
25:53
That's really, it creates an impact for creative agencies and
25:56
AI is the power of AI to be able to to do that and help with
26:00
that. It cannot be underestimated.
26:02
It's great for that. Like, I would never rush it into
26:05
broadcast, but it's great for that, yeah.
26:08
No, I I think that's perfect. I mean, it fits with how our
26:11
brains work too. We need to see something and
26:13
believe it. I know you've never had this
26:16
happen because you've never had a bad client, but there are
26:19
times where creative gets blamed for poor performance.
26:23
I know that's never happened to you, but I know that your stance
26:27
is that usually the root problem is operational, not necessarily
26:32
creative. So the two-part question why
26:35
does that happen and how can CMO shift the conversation?
26:40
Why does what part? What?
26:41
Why does? Creative getting blamed when
26:43
performance is poor. Not that that's ever happened
26:46
with your client, ever. No, I so the organizational and
26:51
process and operational problems roll downhill.
26:55
And if I've got an organizational issue or if I've
26:58
got, you know, I don't have the right talent, I don't have a
27:01
good process to where the thing that's in the CMO's head is
27:04
translated down to the agency in the right way.
27:06
I think there's a not to not to let agencies off the hook,
27:10
right? But I think that a lot of times
27:13
the calls coming from inside the house.
27:15
So when I see bad creative when I you know, you can also like
27:19
the time when I see the most advertising is when I watch the
27:22
NFL. And I think that's everybody in
27:23
America, right? That's that's what we see the
27:25
most advertised through when we're watching live sports.
27:27
I can see where like in any particular ad and I can watch
27:32
that ad and I can see like, OK, this is what the creative agency
27:35
was going to do and this is where they got talked out of it.
27:38
And this is like, and these are the, you know, this is the way
27:40
it got watered down by whatever, you know, these, you know,
27:42
people or what. And that happens a lot with when
27:46
you look at kind of the creative space, brands often will pull
27:50
back and try to do, you know, a little bit more, I don't know
27:54
less. They're not asking for the
27:57
creative that pushes the envelope so much anymore, at
28:00
least not and not in broadcast. And and and we're seeing it kind
28:04
of pull back in social as well. But the agencies always kind of
28:08
get get left hold in the bag if performance starts to suffer,
28:12
right? If I don't have the metrics to
28:13
walk into the SLTA lot of times it's the well, the ads didn't
28:16
work or the what we're doing is social isn't working right.
28:19
But from my perspective that a lot of times that's a strategic
28:23
issue and not a creative issue. Like yes, on occasion the create
28:26
is bad, right, But it's a it's the easiest scapegoat because
28:30
it's the most visible, right? It's harder to go.
28:33
Oh, well, we misinterpreted our audience data and so therefore
28:38
the brief kind of was was off in this way.
28:42
So our messaging was off, like explaining the trickle down
28:45
effect of misinterpreting certain data that led to that
28:49
led to creative that was off is a lot more difficult than just
28:53
firing the agency or just blaming the agency for the work.
28:56
And also, I hate to say it, but a lot of times agencies seem
29:00
like they are expendable. And I disagree with that
29:03
approach. I think a good agency
29:05
relationship is invaluable, right?
29:07
Like anytime you have an agency that you have a solid
29:12
relationship with, you know, the, the ability to be able to
29:15
or the time it takes to create that relationship is worth
29:18
something. So that's where I struggle
29:21
because it's it is a no one gets a pass.
29:25
But a lot of times I think that, like I said earlier, right, the
29:28
calls coming from inside the house on this and the agencies a
29:32
lot of times get left holding the bag and, and it isn't fair.
29:35
But I will say one thing though, like that said, like agencies
29:39
need to step up their creative game as well.
29:41
Like so many creatives have left, so many seasoned creatives
29:45
have left some of the larger agencies.
29:48
And I think you need that kind of leadership and and that, that
29:51
experience inside of agencies to actually bring along new
29:56
creatives to make sure that the the agencies are delivered.
29:59
So it's a little bit of A-22 sided problem and that I don't
30:02
see getting fixed easily and very quickly.
30:05
Yeah, this is another two sided problem.
30:08
This is the last big question. Then we have a, but you've
30:12
worked with both world class creative teams and the very
30:15
disciplined operational organizations.
30:18
What have you learned about the balance between those two forces
30:22
in a way that supports better work?
30:24
In all honesty, like operations is the secret behind great
30:28
creative every single time. Anytime you see a company or a
30:32
group or a brand that is putting out great work, when you look
30:35
behind it, they have sound operational hygiene and probably
30:41
a pretty decent process for how work is both initiated,
30:46
reviewed, and how it finds its way to market almost every time.
30:50
Because the part of how work, it's a, it's the part of the, of
30:55
creativity that gets overlooked every single time is the quality
31:01
and the cohesiveness of the operations and process that lead
31:05
up to delivery. And they're kind of, you know,
31:08
creating the execution in almost every instance you find a sound
31:13
organization where the operational people understand
31:16
that their role is really important in making the creative
31:20
work great. And I think that was something
31:22
in inside of the organizations that I, I was a fortunate enough
31:25
to lead. We always made sure that the
31:28
operational folks, the program managers, the resource folks,
31:31
everybody understood their role in great work.
31:35
And everybody understood the, how important what they were
31:38
doing was downstream to the execution and the ability to
31:43
really put great work out into the, into the world.
31:46
I also think that's why a lot of times those operational roles
31:49
should sit inside of the creative, inside of that
31:52
organization and not in some other organization or inside of
31:55
the marketing organization, not in a centralized PMO kind of
31:58
area. They have to understand the role
32:01
that they play in putting out great work and how important it
32:05
is. And so that to me is that that's
32:06
where that's where the balances. It is a symbiotic relationship
32:10
that both are dependent upon the success of one another without
32:14
fail every time. Awesome.
32:16
I love that. So it's not just heroics and
32:18
serendipity. That's, that's good to know.
32:20
No, my MBA supply chain. So that made my brain very
32:23
happy. You talking about how operations
32:25
lead to the great output. I have two very quick headers
32:29
for you. We can call it lightning round,
32:31
whatever you want. And we can insert jazzy sound
32:33
effects maybe. But the first what are the
32:36
favorite tools or technologies that you're using today?
32:39
This is so self-centered, but we just recently built AAI tool
32:45
that we're using with clients that is a cultural insights
32:49
aggregator across social. And so we've been using that
32:52
tool with a lot of our clients. And I, I have to be honest, like
32:56
I am constantly blown away by what our team has built the
32:58
ability for this tool, it's called Clamor and it's, it's in
33:03
beta right now. But the ability that AI has to
33:07
aggregate and understand social insights or social indicators
33:12
and what's happening in the social space and derive insights
33:15
from that and explain them and just natural language and real
33:20
and real language that that people can understand the power
33:23
of that is cannot be underestimated.
33:25
That is a really good use of the technology.
33:28
And so from that, from that aspect, I think I'm blown away
33:31
by what our team has built. But I'm really excited for a new
33:34
brands and other brands to use it.
33:36
And we're going into launch in a couple weeks.
33:38
So I'm really excited about that.
33:40
But but from a technology standpoint, that's been like the
33:43
newer things that are being built with AI, some of them just
33:46
blow me away with what they can do and how they can help make my
33:49
life easier. That's the real win is finding
33:53
the success in those tools that help with kind of your everyday.
33:56
I love that one. Yeah.
33:57
Let us know when that launches. We'll be sure to promote that
34:00
one, too. That's cool.
34:00
Relevant to my interests, I will say.
34:03
All right. And then the last this is the
34:05
most important question of all. Michael, how can everyone get in
34:08
touch with you after this episode?
34:11
LinkedIn is always the best but I'm pretty easy to get.
34:14
Miller@consiglieri.co is my easiest way to reach me directly
34:19
so. Outstanding.
34:20
Well, thank you so much for your time.
34:21
This has been extremely helpful. I have some notes that I'm going
34:24
to take to work too. You bet.
34:26
And Chris, I the only other way, the easiest way to get a hold of
34:29
me is if you're in Las Vegas, just drop me a line like I'm,
34:32
I'm always up for, for, for meeting out and going out for a
34:35
dinner or drink or something. So.
34:37
All right. I will take you up on that next
34:39
time I'm there. Well, thank you so much,
34:41
Michael. This is.
34:42
Really great. I appreciate it.
34:45
Thanks for joining us for On Base.
34:47
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