Latest / Callum Walker | Figuring It Out / [Special Guest Chris Bradley] - Episode 62 How to Create Consistent Income in Your Fitness Business

Transcript

[Special Guest Chris Bradley] - Episode 62 How to Create Consistent Income in Your Fitness Business · Callum Walker | Figuring It Out

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: When I search MRR in coaching, it's almost non existent, mate. That's where the whole MRR thing was born. It was born through my own experience of almost leaving the industry. One month you're really rich and the next month you're poor. I hear a lot of people say that, oh, you know, you're you're a coach first and a business owner second, and I don't think that could be any further from the truth.
• 0:17
  Everybody says that, Kyle. They're like, I wanna impact loads of lives. It's like, well, you can't impact them if you don't have a business. You have to be a good coach that communicates well. You have to understand that you're a natural business owner.
• 0:27
  See if you focus on that, then you're gonna impact more life. I went to London, big, big London, first time I'd ever been. I got the train down, I had my little laptop, and I just went, wow, I feel like I'm back wearing my oversized PureGym uniform again. And then I bought the course, came back. I was like, right.
• 0:43
  There is a lot of work to do here. Something good happens if you just keep pushing to be curious. I actually saw a quote from Alice in Wonderland today. It was the quote about finding the right people, and then you'll find Wonderland. So surround yourself with the right people, and then you'll find Wonderland.
• 0:56
  Listen, man. I'm still figuring it out.
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: If fear is the only thing stopping us from achieving our dreams and we only fear what we don't understand, then the antidote to fear is knowledge. All we have to do is find out who has the knowledge that we need to conquer our fears and achieve our entrepreneurial dreams. My name is Callum Walker, and welcome to the podcast that will help you figure it out and conquer this lonely entrepreneurial journey. MRR? Why?
• 1:29
  Why MRR?
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: You got a spare four hours. Why you mean, I think just what what comes to mainstream away is, and I guess the why always gets refined, doesn't it, over time? But for the initial reason for the MRR was, truth be told me, I've always been inspired by building a business that's unique, but at the very least has got something different to it. And in Scotland, we call it something about you, right? Something different about it.
• 1:55
  So I think when I bought the Glasgow PT, that was my aim with that as well. It was like, right. Okay. Let's rebrand. Let's call it something that can turn some heads.
• 2:02
  I never knew at the time, but looking back with hindsight is like, I actually wanted to just create something that gave me that edge, gave me that buzz and gave me some gave me a standard to to aim towards because I literally called my business the Glasgow PT. You know? It was like, and some people view that as like, who does he think he is calling himself the Glasgow PT. But then looking back at it now, it's the same as MRR. The whole MRR agency thing was I just get one of my biggest passions is marketing and the psychology of marketing, what that does for businesses, what it does to make people move in a direction that eventually changes their life.
• 2:38
  So MRR was basically the way it came about is I was kind of stuck without goody coach. I was kind of like, right, we're going well, you know, well, looking at the space here, there's guys in this space ten years before me that I had been mentored up by from in the past. Was like, how do I how do I fast track this this learning curve? How do I get ahead? Because I can't reverse time.
• 3:04
  I can't get the same experience as these guys. You know, and so I basically just went, okay, let me just go back to why And I I think it's the whole Avatar thing. It's like I tell coaches to do this all the time and they get frustrated but I've bought a lot of courses and a lot of mental business coaches in the last ten years and it always starts with Avatar, right? Because it should. And I went back, readdressed it and I was like, what do these coaches actually want?
• 3:30
  Because I think built the upgraded coach based on what I struggled with or what I thought I struggled with. So then you only can build what you know. Then over time you coach thirty, forty, 50 people and you start to realize, right, okay, it's not just that particular problem because that was my path. It's also this problem, that problem. What do you mean?
• 3:50
  Someone doesn't know why I post content. I found that easy. I thought that was fine. Alright. So confidence is an issue with copy content.
• 3:57
  You know, I was terrible at tracking my income. That's probably why my my, you know, income fluctuated. Someone's really good at that. Alright. I thought I was everybody was crappy like me.
• 4:06
  So I started to learn over time and then we did well. First two years we you know started doing pretty well. The business was growing but then like I say I wanted to push further. I wanted to fast track the growth of the company. So I went back to the avatar, went back, I did market research for the first time, which is embarrassing because it's something obviously anybody less than I'd advise you to do as soon as possible.
• 4:30
  We ran some market research. We I wanted I'm a personal trainer at heart rate and we've all got a bit of an ego. Whenever I spoke to personal trainers, in business audits for example, they knew that their names tied to So they knew that someone was viewing it and not all of them open up straight away. So I always felt with the audits and the trackers that was completed, it was very kind of softest level comments they were saying. It was very much like they almost said what you wanted to hear and personal trainers listening to us will know that when they get a client check-in, they kind of just say what they want you want to hear sometimes don't they?
• 5:08
  You never get the true reason unless you're great at communication and great at coaching, which I'm sure you'll get to that stage if you're not already. So I had all the information from clients because I've been coaching them. I like to categorize clients as aware because they they listen to your processes, they've been onboarded. They're aware people in marketing. I wanted to listen to the unaware people because when a business is stolen and you're maybe struggling to get calls booked, you need to speak the language of the unaware.
• 5:35
  Right? So I did market research and I made that anonymous. I gave away £500 to the and randomized it. The reason that I was able to find the person is I left a keyword at the end of the questionnaire. So I asked them 50 questions, very hefty market research.
• 5:54
  And then from that I sat, thankfully it was just been chat GPT came out at the time. I was able to get to the answers quicker and start to digest it quicker. And I just sat with the answers and I was like, right, what am I missing here? And before I got the answers, was very much, okay, what we're all about? We're all about anti strike screenshots.
• 6:12
  We're all about, you know, fluctuating income. We're all about ego. And we're all about, you know, not asking for help and all about that, all that sort of stuff. So then when I read it, I was like, right, all people actually want is stability here. Mhmm.
• 6:26
  Because they've let their guard down. The answers are anonymous and it's never gonna be tied back to them. So what I got was incredibly refreshing answers from people that I'd never seen. Answers like that before. And I was like, wow, okay.
• 6:38
  And I sat with it for a bit and I'm like, right, people just want stability and safety. And I went, that's a bit like you're being a fat loss coach and try to sell consistency or sustainability. It's not very sexy, right? So I was like, okay, we're gonna have to make this sexy to make it marketable. So that's when I sat on it for a bit.
• 6:58
  And I started to really observe new clients who were coming into our business. And it really drove home how true the market research was because because I was young, I was new to the space. We were obviously cheaper than the bigger guys in the space, but we were more relatable. We were friendlier. We were more accessible.
• 7:21
  And, you know, I started taking on people who just saw my business and saw my journey from personal trainer to gym owner to online coach to now being a mentor at the time. I got people signing up and they came to us. Right? And I always remember taking a few people on, especially in Scotland and a few in the North Of England and I thought, wow, okay. You know when you get those clients, you're kinda like the highest status clients quote unquote.
• 7:43
  And I thought, great man, I finally got a client with a good brand and a good name and stuff. And when they came on board, what I found was horrifying. And they had set the business up to run it on a very, very sales dominant way. So, you know, 60%, 70% of the business was reliant on sales. The rest was, you know, a really broken business model with no emphasis on client care, client communication, getting clients results, making sure clients get their clients results and what they're offering people.
• 8:18
  They were coming in and they were just able to sell to people. And selling don't get me wrong is an amazing skill to have of course, but they had it the wrong way around. So we had coaches who had ten k months, but the following month would be four k, three k. So there were seven one to two k packages and if they never sold, it was like feast or famine. And I thought we need to do something about this.
• 8:43
  We need to make this marketable. We need to make it sexy. And most importantly, we need to fix it. So that's where the whole MRR thing was born. It was born through my own experience of almost leaving the industry because I was like, is this just what happens?
• 8:56
  Like one month you're really rich and the next month you're poor. Is this what happens? I think it is because that's the way that block payments work and that's the way that some clients cancel last minute. Maybe that's just how it works as a business. So it was both from that early on to then go, right.
• 9:09
  Okay. Wait a minute here. I wasn't the only one experiencing this. And then just categorically asking my market outright anonymously for them to give me the answers. And that was where MRR and the push started to come from it.
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: I just wanna kinda briefly kinda take you back to let's talk about the Glasgow PT. To call yourself the Glasgow PT, it's gotta take some confidence. Yep. Where does that come from?
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: I actually called myself the Glasgow PT because I I remember I had my client, it's my longest term client. And I was sitting with him, I like, we need to change the name. The name was Chris Bradley Fitness at the time. And I was like, we need to change it. We need to get something that stands out.
• 9:48
  And I was brainstorming back and forth with him and he said, what about Glasgow PT? And I was like, the Glasgow PT, what do you mean? And it was kinda half, well, you're the busiest person here. Maybe you're just and we had we were in the biggest gym in Glasgow. And it was like, maybe you just go with that.
• 10:08
  And to be honest, at first, I wasn't really thinking I'm the Glasgow PT. It was more, I like the idea that it identifies with a location that I can potentially dominate. So it was like the Glasgow PT. So immediately I was like search engine optimization. Was like, Oh, this is gonna come up without me pain.
• 10:22
  I do. And I was very confident at the time, very confident, highly driven by ego. I'd came from a place where I was, I remember wearing the personal trainer uniform and I was like sixty nine kilograms and it drowned me and there was no smaller sizes. And I took a class of 30 people with no confidence despite the fact that I was in retail before that. And then looking at people in the staff and then going like, wow, how are they so big?
• 10:50
  How are they muscley? How are they so confident? Don't be wrong with I was confident in my life out with that. Just I in a small fish in a big pond all of a sudden And I didn't know how to coach people. There was not much help back then.
• 11:05
  I went from that to, okay, now I've got a voice. Okay, now my classes are busy. Okay, now people want to sign up after my class. Okay, now I'm the bed probably the busiest PT here. And I went, Oh.
• 11:17
  And then the belief just caught up and just fell to the brim and I was just like, Right, okay, I definitely feel like I'm the Glasgow PT because I'm the busiest here. I've got the most transformations on Instagram. That was the value at the time, wasn't it? And I thought, yeah man, I think it's true. And it was very much just peak confidence of coming from a place where I'd built it up.
• 11:40
  In all honesty, the breadcrumbs were successful there, They were there, so it was justified. It was just a lot of the things I did back then were based on impressing people probably. So that was probably why it was born. It was less born about that than it was clever in any degree.
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: When do you reckon you kinda made that shift?
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: The next phase, mate. So when I made myself a small fish again. I remember I went down to a mastermind in London, out with going to Portugal in a few holidays. It was the first time I'd actually went to somewhere else in The UK. I think I'd went to can't remember the name of that place.
• 12:15
  Flamingo Land. I'd went to Flamingo Land. So when you leave Scotland, like in The UK, it's kinda like, oh, where are we going? Are we going to England? And I went went to to London, big, big London.
• 12:26
  First time I'd ever been. I got the train down. I had my my little laptop and I'd got a I got invited to the to the mastermind that day. I went down and I just went, wow. I feel like I'm back wearing my oversized Pure Gem uniform again.
• 12:40
  These guys were confident, they were business owners, they were experienced, the guy who was on the stage delivering was talking about things that just went over my head, but some of it I was like, oh wow, I know how could I never think of that? And then I bought the course, came back and I was like, right, there is a lot of work to do here. So see the ten, fifteen PTs that you're looking at your Pure Gem? Yeah, that's not the standard. That's just Glasgow you're talking about me.
• 13:07
  That is not the standard. And I and I and so I put myself in another room and realized that I'm a small fish. So that's when that's when the ego to was like, yeah. There's no there's no room for that here.
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: But your average person could very easily have turned to a puddle with an inferiority complex there. And I think the one thing that's really kind of clear to me anyway is that whenever you're searching for an answer, and it's a great principle that I've has really helped me in terms of like who, not how. Like when you were looking for an answer in terms of the MRR side of things, you immediately went to like market research. And then again, like in terms of your answers, almost like in terms of the next sort of stage of your business, you went right, okay, I need to go to this individual because the answer is going to be over there. That like that resourcefulness, like I feel it's something that isn't isn't really kind of around as much in the fitness industry, at the moment in terms of, yeah, you know, you have people who sign up for masterminds, you have some people who sign up for mentorships, etcetera.
• 14:13
  But I know the one thing that I definitely reconnect with you on is that you're very curious to find out the answer, but not necessarily just for the specific outcome, but also for the new skills that you require. And how how have you kind of crafted that sort of mindset? Because I think one of the frustrations I have, and I'm sure you probably share a similar sort of frustration in terms of the coaching industry at the moment is the sole almost kind of like drive for the outcome as opposed to almost kind of coming into. So let's say for example, I wanted to come into your program and work with you. Like, I don't just see that as an opportunity to, you know, it's gonna change my MRR.
• 14:56
  I see it as I'm going to learn how MRR works. I'm going to learn how to actually be able to do that and acquire that skill set. So where does that come from?
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: I mean, think it comes from initially doing it and then getting outcome from it. So for example, use this quite a lot, but when I was in Sainsbury's working, I used to sit back and they would give us feedback on who was the fastest at scanning items. Because the faster the items get scanned, the more customers you get through the till, the more money they make, there's less queues. And this is back when supermarkets were huge made on any queues happen. It was like, what they get school done.
• 15:31
  Right? Because queues are the big thing. And I remember seeing someone score. They told us the score on this woman had like 28 items per minute. And I was like, how the hell is she scanning 28 items per minute?
• 15:43
  I'm at like 17. And I'm like, I can't just throw this and throw the items at the customer. Then I found out what she did, mate. So I got curious. I was like, how is she doing that?
• 15:51
  And I used to watch her. Right? And she used to like so say you are a customer and you're trying to pack your bag and and it's starting to overflow like they do with you at Lidl, right? But they don't care. She would press she would press the enter button.
• 16:03
  So what she'd figured out is that when you press enter, it stops the clock. So then so then the timer's not going anymore. So she was she had great customer service, high items per minute, and I saw her do it, but she never shared the information with people. So the curiosity came from that. And then I think it's also made just wanting to be useful.
• 16:23
  I think the resourcefulness comes from just wanting to be useful for people. You know, it came from when I a PT and I just over delivered and probably tried to deal with stuff that I wasn't qualified to deal with because I just wanted to be useful. So in order to be useful, you have to be resourceful. So from that all the way through to like, you know, when I went down to that course, I went, wow. That's like I wanna know how they do that.
• 16:45
  So then I built an education hub and it was like, no one has that up here. And it was like, right. So let me tell you this. Every time I'm curious and I go and seek the answers, market research, I get the MRR thing, Something good happens if you just keep pushing to be curious and that was it. So every time I've done it, it's came with its reward.
• 17:04
  It sometimes feels tough. It sometimes feel like you're giving yourself more work. But guess what? That's what yields the result. So, I mean, it's so it's so funny you say that the word curiosity is just such an important trait in business, man.
• 17:16
  Because it removes as well, Kyle. It removes the stigma between I need to know. I need to know the next thing. No, don't. Curiosity will bring the answers because the answer just doesn't lie.
• 17:25
  There is no answer. The answer is what you feel you translate it as.
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: It's interesting you're saying because I'm a big storybook reader, like whether it's comics, whether it's old books, whether it's films. Have you watched Alice in Wonderland before? Yeah. Have you read the book?
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: No. I actually saw a quote from Alice in Wonderland today.
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: What was it?
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: It was the quote about finding the right people and then you'll find Wonderland. So surround yourself with the right people and then you'll find Wonderland.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: Give that book a read because I definitely recommend it. First of all, it's so clear he wrote it on psychedelics. Like it's Yeah. Because like, it's nothing like the film. Like it just doesn't make sense, but there are some absolute gems in there that really kind of apply to entrepreneurship.
• 18:12
  And also kind of like in terms of the MRR side of things, I do really want to kind of get into. I think also one thing I found in terms of, with my own business, in terms of the, you know, my customers staying in my world, my clients staying in my world. I think one of the big things that I've noticed has been that when I have had a poor recurring revenue, which fundamentally is a low level of, you know, clients buying into me the message and the service that I'm delivering, it's been because my energy and my performance has gone down, necessarily from a physical point of view, but more from a sense of that like, I remember I once had a client saying to me, it's like, you just turn up as if you don't wanna actually be it. And when that is almost kinda like transitioning, translating over to one of your customers. That's not really a great place to almost be, especially when you're in the service business and the people business.
• 19:04
  But I think the reason why that kind of happened was that I'd lost curiosity in terms of the direction that this business was actually going. And it almost kind of like, I remember like when it came to fat loss, I talk a lot about, you know, to a lot of coaches who I work with around, you got to be more than just a fat loss coach because like fat loss is is finite. Like once someone's lost, know, once someone's lost two stone, what you can do keep paying me £250 a month to stay where you're at. Like there has to be some form of progression and growth and like, know, you know, we we had a conversation, you know, back in Florida last year. And I remember one of the things that I really got from guy who was speaking Stu McLaren around kind of like membership subscriptions and keep in mind, people want progression, they wanna move forward.
• 19:49
  But also I think for yourself, like you have to have kind of progression in terms of like having curiosity still within this business. And reason I bring Alice in Wonderland up was it's a really interesting kind of part of the book right at the start. She's it's right at the start. She's just sitting around in a meadow and she's she's looking around and it's interesting around this like, know, you've got something about you. She's looking around, she sees loads of rabbits.
• 20:14
  And then this one rabbit catches her eye because it's a rabbit wearing a fucking waistcoat looking at the time saying, I'm late, I'm late. So naturally, first of all, I kind of looked at that and go, well, every other rabbit just looked the same and was acting like a rabbit. But then when you have a rabbit standing there in a waistcoat talking saying that it's late, that piques your curiosity. And then the rabbit goes down a hole, like goes down a hole. And because she was curious as to where the rabbit is actually going, then goes and follows the rabbit down there.
• 20:43
  So for me, I kind of wrote that in my journal. Was like, right, okay, you know, am I am I operating like a rabbit that's just sitting around doing what rabbits do? Or am I how can I be the rabbit wearing the waistcoat, looking at the time saying I'm late and late and late because I'm someone who is almost like worth being curious actually to follow down a rabbit hole? Then also in terms of your own self, it's like having that curiosity, it keeps it like, it keeps exciting for keeps you on your journey in that sense.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, love it. Aye, it makes total sense. And I think that's but it's so true. It's like if your client mentioned to you that day, and like we've all got to, when we and this is what some coaches don't realize. When I have one on one calls to coaches, kind of go, Chris, this marketing thing's not working, my content's not landing.
• 21:32
  And I'm like, tell them, You seem uptight. Your stories are a bit You're salesy. You feel like we can People sense it, mate. They sense it, but they may not say it out loud. They may not consciously say it.
• 21:44
  Subconsciously, they feel it from people. And that's why it's so hard when you're struggling with your business is because the very thing that could actually get you out the rut is just you being in your place of expertise and really thriving. And it's hard because it's like, how do I get out of that to get to be more attractive? I wanna know where you're going. You know?
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: It's a challenging question to kind of ask yourself consistently. But I think the one thing that does scream out to me in terms of, and why I really kind of connect with you anyway, the curiosity side of things. You make me very curious and especially in terms of the overall kind of message of MRR, it's not out there. It's not regular. But also there's an element of curiosity because, you know, like you said there, in terms of what people are really looking for, I think one of the biggest challenges, you know, with when you are kind of like starting a business is the perceived uncertainty and that uncertainty of income and you can find yourself very easily on that treadmill of the, I've got to keep making sales to keep the money in.
• 22:50
  So just from like an outsider's perspective, being able to kind of look at like the message you're putting out there, the branding and what everything that necessarily the branding, but the clear messaging of MRR is very, very curious. And I think that that is very kind of a very powerful way to do things. But like for other coaches, how how can they almost kind of like, you know, go more from like a messaging perspective. We kind of use this almost like, you know, rabbit in a waistcoat sort of metaphor. How can they almost kind of elicit that sort of curiosity?
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: It's a great question because this is what we spend time building with our coaches, but it's not easy. Know, I don't go on a call with a coach and come up with it for them. They, you know, some of them, some of them it just falls naturally to them. I get really what I'm starting to realize is that coaches lack, like any human being, we lacks moments of inspiration, we lack motivation to do the thing we know we need to do. So what I've found is the most inspired coaches is they actually build something that's so unique to them.
• 23:51
  You know, we saw a wave there of coaches using the same graphic designers and using the same business coaching programs. What we ended up with was just this whole host of people who are just copycats of each other. And this isn't to put people down because you're still invested in both things. You're still trying to do good. It's not to put you down.
• 24:08
  It's more to say that, look, I'm not sitting here, you know, the most successful business coach in my space, but I wake up every day and you'll not like, unless I'm drinking Guinness, you will not not see me with this t shirt on because man, I wake up every day, I've got the three letters tattooed on my leg. Like, I love it. I love the idea of it. I love the I love the fact that I found an angle. You know, I'm hardly creating, you know, the next fucking Amazon here.
• 24:33
  Like, it's it's it's not I'm not coming up with something that I invented. I come up with an actual angle. It's something that I feel passionate about helping coaches with. And so like I'm prepared to spend the next ten years with this angle and really really explore it, really learn more about it. And what one of the like, back to your point, Kyle, the most curious part for this for me, which I love, is when I search MRR in coaching, it's almost nonexistent, man.
• 25:00
  It doesn't exist because it's typically viewed as a software thing. It's okay, you put a price up, people will subscribe to it and they pay you monthly. Now when I look at the biggest struggles with fitness business owners, it's safety in their business, stability, predictability, like consistency. Right? So we ask our coaches and have done for the full of 2024 and went, okay, end the month trackers, fill it in.
• 25:27
  Bear in mind, this is coaches getting our help. And we've got 10 pillars of MRR, sales, authenticity, you know, systems, all this good stuff. And we asked them, what's your weakest pillar going into next month? And every single month of this year, sales was the answer. How can it be that every single one of our clients ticks sales?
• 25:45
  When does it end? That not
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: just a paradigm?
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: Of course it is, mate. Of course it is. What I'm trying to do here with my clients and my messaging is trying to rewrite the rulebook that, we want to sell, but how can every single month sales be a problem? When are we going to spend a month or the year just building something we love? So I a long winded answer to help people build something is like, really look at something you're passionate about, Callum.
• 26:16
  Look for the people that you want to take along this journey with you. Right? You you can get, you know, a bit cheesy or a bit more American with it and talk about your calling, like what is your calling? Your movement, what's the movement you're building, right? And you know, a perfect example of this, right, and you can't steal this because it's my client's business now, it's trademarked, it's going well.
• 26:34
  And she, her business is, she helps females who are, they're not particularly TikTok gym girls, they're not particularly your Gymshark girls, right? She knows that, she's quirky, she's weird. They lift heavy, they like going to the gym, but the big statement that they always make from the research is they can't be arsed. Right? So her brand is now CBA.
• 26:57
  Right? But a brand is CBA, her tagline is doing it anyway. Right? So she's installed this mantra that I can't be arh, it's like, but I'm doing it anyway. She's got a higher tier, which is CBA, doing it better.
• 27:11
  Right? And the idea here is that she's found our people because these people use this language. You're speaking the language. Right? So for me, for MRR, for example, see if I use the word safety, stability, the Dubai crew will be like, I don't want to be safe and stable, mate.
• 27:25
  To be taking over the world. So my language is going to alienate people, but also bring people to me when they drop their ego. So my my my point is is that if you're sitting there with a market that you love serving, listen to them, speak the language, and you'll find that little thing. You'll find the thing that you can double down on. By the way, you're not reinventing the wheel.
• 27:47
  You're selling fat loss. I'm selling business coaching. I'm not Bezos. You're not Zuckerberg. I'm not telling you to find the next apple.
• 27:54
  I'm telling you to find what your people love and what they can go, woah. I love that car. Get me on that car with you. We're off to the races wherever we're going. Mhmm.
• 28:03
  That's it. Find that thing. But honestly, pretend you are creating the next thing because it will just lift the the lead of what's possible for you.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: I think the problem is that when you're trying to fit in the same box as everyone else, the excitement and the possibilities disappear because it's like, this is how it is done and you do it like that. We've both been in the the world of Russell Brunson for a while. Like, he talks about who you've been called to serve. How many coaches actually kind of like are aware that that is even a thing? But then also in terms of the business mentoring space, how much is that actually that specific thing in terms of who you've been called to serve, who your your movement is for and what it's about, you look at that like that CBA, just kind of looking at you while you're actually articulating that.
• 28:46
  I'm seeing that as like that is what obviously clearly kind of sets you on fire in terms of like for you, it's getting that super deep into understanding specifically who you want to work with, getting super deep into their head, and their own story, and then being able to actually craft that message and then craft the overall coaching program and business and turn it into a movement. And then to see someone else, then replicate that exact same thing. That is something that really kind of sets you on fire. It's we've like both been PTs and we go to the fat loss side of things or you know from a physique perspective. The ones who really kind of make you go like, yeah, aren't the people who have gotten a dress, know, they've
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: gotten
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: the into a suit. People who you almost kind of see that like, you get it. So like for me, like I love, you know, I love kind of like out, you know, like trail running. I love things like, utilizing physical tools to really kind of enhance your mental performance. And when I had someone else who was invested in that same sort of journey and I saw them sending me a photo of jumping in a lake or know, going like right, know, I've done a sauna all this week.
• 29:58
  It wasn't almost kind of like the fact that like, yeah, I'm really glad it was almost like you get it. And and there's just that almost like that that feeling of fulfillment and that drive to go. I just want to do more of that, like more of that. And that's the message that I really kind of want to share. But it's easy to slip back into the box of like you talk about sales, like it's like, you know, fall back into the box of like, know, a business mentorship will just tell me get good at selling, you know, have as many conversations as you possibly can because the solution to your problem is always sales like it is.
• 30:35
  Yeah. But but you kind of like within that, why do you think why do you think that they they believe or yeah. Why do you think that that that coaches believe that sales is their problem? If that's coming up at like on a regular basis, why why is that the problem?
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: I think they believe it, mate, because a number of factors, but they always think that they can do more from it. They know it. A lot of them know that it's a weakness of theirs. Another factor is that quite simply they're losing people with their back door. So they think that, okay, let's, you know, put a plaster over a leaky bucket.
• 31:08
  They consistently think that. The problem is that because the business isn't really built on the principles of recurring revenue is that they just normalize it. Like I did back in the day when I was like, okay, that's what happens with your income. You know, you just got them down all the time, cool. So they normalize it to the point where it's like, well, every month I just look for sales anyway, because I'm always wanting to grow.
• 31:29
  And it's like, well, you know, in the pursuit of growth, you're if you're losing clients, and you're always looking for sales, surely surely we have to look at things differently because surely that's not the forever way of looking at it. Now bear in mind, Callum, like some of these coaches who feel this way, they're also at a price point they've been charging for four years. They're not exactly churning out client results every week. They don't have a, you know, they don't have a success portfolio. So taking all those things into consideration, it's like almost feel like going right, well, do think you it's better if we try another another way of doing things here?
• 32:01
  And I remember a coach came to us a couple three months back and he was in all these other business coaching programs and don't get me wrong, I was kinda right, okay, this coach has been in, you know, some of the other guys that have been in the space longest. And I'm like, right. Okay. Let's let's and and you automatically think you have to do what you you think you want. And I said, no, let's do this.
• 32:20
  Let's let's build a USP. Let's sit on it. And he went, nobody's ever made me do this. I was like, yeah, I know because like and me, you're talking about being unfulfilled, you're talking about not having a buzz about your business, but build something you're proud of and see the DMs that you may have to send at some point, see the content that you're struggling with, see the marketing, wake up every day and talk about the thing you love and you'll not have a problem with any of So I always I always say that's Kyle. Right?
• 32:46
  It's like, if if someone was to get you on Sky News for your business, what would you talk about? And then they're like, fat loss. And it's like, why would they not just get James Smith then? And it's like, hey, I'd probably talk about Hydrox. It's like, why would they not just get their own Hydrox on?
• 33:05
  And to the point as well, mate, like what you mentioned about people getting on board with that. Excuse me. I met you in Florida, right, at Russell Bunsen's Russell Bunsen's Funnel Mark Funnel Hanging Life. I bought his book from a funnel. Two weeks later, I'm like, oh, what's this funnel hacking life thing?
• 33:30
  I'm in the funnel. I'm in the world. The next thing you know, I'm on a plane to Florida with my missus on business class. And then I'm at this event, and the next thing you know, I'm buying a course. And I'm like, what just happened there?
• 33:43
  I got a free book. But the the idea the point is that, you know, I want personal journalists to listen to this because just to your point, Callum, I don't think coaches are quite aware yet of why it matters to create something unique. I think they just think cell, fat loss, that's it. That's what happens. So I guess we'll just try to stretch the vision that we've been through because I certainly felt the same.
• 34:00
  But how can I buy a guy's a book that he gives it actually gives it for free, you just pay for shipping? Next thing you know, me and the missus are on a flight to Florida to buy and then I buy a 20 k course. Like, wow. Okay. That's what that's what you call knowing your market and that's what you call making a movement.
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: It technically was a marketing conference. Did it feel like a marketing conference in the slightest? No.
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: No. That's it. And and I never actually
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: They sell software, mate. Technically. Fine. Oh, we got
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: a game. Aye. They sell software with a mastermind.
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: It's a fucking software company. Doesn't that just kind of instill an aura of possibilities of going like, that's what I want to create. Almost kind of like that feeling. I don't know about you but it was almost like I've two years now. I've been for the past two years.
• 34:53
  When you go there, there's just a feeling of like here's another question. Okay. How many times did you speak one to one with Russell Brunson before you bumped him $20?
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: Never.
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: Me either.
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: I never had a d m outbound message sent to me.
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: Have you followed him on Instagram much? Like, I didn't consume his content through Instagram myself. Not
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: at all. So I think end the lesson, Callum, is that's the point is like and this is a big plan for us for 2025, mate. It's like, I look at people that inspire me and I'm I'm you know, I get I I find impressive, like we we said there, impressive and inspiring. And these guys aren't these guys and ghettos aren't particularly on Instagram sitting there putting stories up of their oats. They're not.
• 35:36
  And I'm like, okay. That's how they behave. Who do I what you know, who do I need to step into? Who do I need to become? And this is the same for every level, by the way.
• 35:45
  It's just like, you know, it could be you, you need to step into Instagram maybe. Like, there's all sorts of levels to step into.
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: But I I look at like the the the buying journey that I went on as well. Like, with that, I I think I tell you one thing that's really, really clear with you and I feel is, yeah, really impressive is your ability to almost kind of see data and not necessarily just data in terms of what's happening in the business, but more importantly, like, you know, you so for example, when you kind of said that I'm in Sainsbury's and I'm watching, you know, the girl who's, who's scanning faster than everyone else. I'm I'm seeing like actually what is actually happening through the data that is actually there. And you're looking into the story of it. And I find that really kind of like heavily impressive.
• 36:33
  And I look at almost like for me in terms of the buying journey I went on with Russell, that that is data. And that tells a story and that effectively kind of gives me my answer in terms of like, that is the kind of buying journey that I would love to create. And I look at like a lot of lot of business mentors and it's interesting cause I've been hounded by business mentors over the years as well. So like I've got one camping in my DM inbox at the moment, but I'm actually kinda just looking at his funnel. So he doesn't actually kinda know, I'm just really kinda just having a look at that.
• 37:05
  But he's like absolutely hounding me. It's interesting because I've been hounded by these guys, they're camping in my DMs, they're relentlessly going go, go, go, go. And I admire their persistence and I admire their But I'm also like, in terms of a sales process, I do not like the way in which that is kind of making me feel. So it's almost like immediately we haven't even built up a relationship. Let's get on a call, let's get on a call, let's get on call.
• 37:29
  I'm like, I don't know you. The one who was referring to me is bro relentlessly. And I was like, dude, I don't even know you, you can't call me bro. But I think the point I'm kind of coming at is that like, the way that that individual was doing business is then I see it as the way that if I went into his business mentorship program, he is then going to teach me to go and do business. And I'm like, I don't want to do business like that.
• 37:53
  I look at the buying journey I went through through Russell Brunson. Not once that I felt did I feel like I was sold to. Think the thing that he created, which was so amazing was he caused me to want to work with him. And again, there's that curiosity, there's that what's that on the other side? And but I also kind of bought into like him, his personality, his way of doing things.
• 38:16
  And I just think that like especially through Instagram at the moment, like I'm sure we both see lots of coaches content and it's the same message, said the same way to kind of the same person. And there's no, they're all just kind of like it seems that there's all just rabbits in a field, know, of in the same sort of way and no one's wearing a waistcoat. No one's got the actual kind of like the clock out saying that they're late. And the same with like the sales process. And I think the other thing is that like, if you look at, you know, people who want to come work with a personal trainer, you're not going to be the first personal trainer that they've probably worked with.
• 38:55
  I know. And if it's just the same service with the same marketing message, like that eventually kind of gets to a point where it's just like they're gonna leave you significantly quicker because it's like you're just another one of them. You're just another one of them. I kind of come to just just one other thing. You kind of mentioned, like around MRR.
• 39:16
  So if we kind of go into MRR, like around kind of the leaky bucket side of things. Why, what do you think is the predominant, I know it's a very, very vague and easy question to, hard question to almost kind of get clear on. But what are the predominant things that someone may be potentially neglecting that is causing their overall recurring revenue to not really kind of be there?
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, there's so much I could I could talk, to be honest. I think it's if I was to really pinpoint it to one thing, I think it's I honestly think, mate, like, coaches coaches couldn't care anymore. I think, like, the any any great coach listening to this, mean, you're probably focused on self development. So you're listening to this, which is great.
• 40:04
  So it puts you in a category away from people who just aren't prepared to ask any questions or get any help. So I think for for me, it's like, if you can't you can't kid anymore as a coach, right? If you think about that like from a delivery standpoint, it's like you message them all the time, you look after them, you ask them their dog's name, cat's name, you know, you really care for these clients and and now in this modern day we're coaching it's like mental health, it's nutrition, it's training, it's all these aspects that you're helping them with. So then there's so many coaches sitting there who can't care anymore, they care so much, but they still lose clients and they still struggle to sell. So it's like, okay, so I care enough.
• 40:47
  So what's next then? And it's like, well, how are you coaching people? Like, how are you communicating with people? Like, what is the conversations you're having? How are you being?
• 40:57
  Are you being a coach? Are you being a mentor? Are you being an educator? Like, are you wearing the different hats between it? So there's definitely an element of that, is being a a good coaching communicator.
• 41:06
  I think you don't have to be, you know, like, yeah, you don't have to have all the fancy words and all the rest of it. You just have to be a good communicator that knows how to push someone in the back, but also put your arm around their shoulder. So again, are these are high level topics that I mentioned here that require obviously in-depth chatting about it. So there's that. But then I also feel that there's so many coaches that just do not step into business owner mode.
• 41:34
  It's like, I I hear a lot of people say that, oh, you know, you're a coach first and a business owner second. And I don't think that could be any further from the truth. I think if you didn't have a business, you'd call yourself a coach, but you're unemployed. Yeah, you're unemployed, you have no one to coach. So I think that this might be okay coming from a business coach because it may be making you think that I'm telling you to be more of a business owner.
• 42:00
  But when I look at three big goals that coaches have, which is buy a house, buy a bigger house for kids, start a family, travel abroad, see the world, whatever. It all requires a solid business. So then you have to learn business skills, the business soft skills that you have to learn. People think because I'm into MRR, I'm anti sales or I'm anti, you know, cash collected and stuff like that. It's not the truth.
• 42:26
  To summarize, think it's like, you have to be a good coach that communicates well. You have to understand that you're a natural business owner. Like you're a business owner who sells fitness, you're not a coach who sells who's like owns a business. You're a business owner first because see if you focus on that then you're gonna impact more lives. Everybody says that, Callum, they're like, I wanna impact loads of lives.
• 42:48
  It's like, well, you can't impact them if you don't have a business. Your business is
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: the No, gateway that's to true. If no
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: one knows you exist, you're not impacting people. And I actually saw a quote and people might disagree with this and I'm not sure where I stand with it at times, but I've seen a quote, was like, your marketing will impact more lives than your coaching ever will. And if you think of like effectively marketing, you know, I've got, I don't know, something like 5,000 people's downloaded my audiobook. It's gonna take a long time for me to coach 5,000 clients. Maybe they don't all read it, but maybe, you know, 1,000?
• 43:20
  That's a lot. So I think there's that, mate. I think it's people need to step into those shoes as a business owner. Take 100% ownership. The coaches that we give awards to, that we see performing the best, mate, is they take 100% ownership of their business, of the coaching client relationship, and they step into those shoes.
• 43:39
  And because of that, the confidence builds, they lead with conviction, they create a solution based environment for themselves to work out of instead of reactive, instead of blame, instead of oh what if. They just lead from the front regardless of the situation. And that's the coach you'd be love walking with.
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: I remember listening to a podcast that Russell did. And it's interesting because, he basically said that he he he sat in a room once and he saw all of these entrepreneurs. And he could literally tell who would be the ones that would be successful and not. And he basically said that the people who are going to be successful are the people who fall in love with the marketing and actually fall in love with the process of the marketing of the product as opposed to just the product. Now that might sound pretty weird coming from me in terms of I'm someone who's hammering in on you've got to deliver a high quality service, you've got to deliver a service your client couldn't get from anyone else.
• 44:39
  But business is so much easier. It's easier to market. It is easier to sell when you've got good fucking results. Like, because otherwise, if I'm trying to relentlessly sell, if I'm on a sales call with someone and I know I'm on a sales call because I need to sign someone up because I've just had three clients leave me. Sales is just the transference of certainty.
• 45:01
  So yeah, I absolutely have to be good at selling. But if the certainty in my mind, if I can get you the result is actually, I'm actually only signing York. I just have three people leave and I need to get the mortgage sorted. You can be the best salesperson in the world, but eventually you're not gonna have conviction. You're not gonna want to actually go and do the marketing side of things.
• 45:19
  So, know, from from my perspective, I see it as you have to over deliver on the promise, like over deliver on the promise, not only will that bring in more referrals, but then also your own certainty and conviction and desire to go and put it out there, like it goes through the roof. But then secondly, that on the flip side, if you don't know how to market, and you don't know how to sell that then becomes really hard. So you have to have that kind of balance there between the two. But I think I kind of come back to this point on what something that is really, really clear with you from the conversations I've had with you anyway over the years. That you are fascinated and obsessed and curious of marketing and understanding marketing in terms of understanding people, what people actually want, what their challenges are, how to communicate with that individual.
• 46:08
  And I think one question I kind of got for you, because I think what's really, really clear as well, is you kind of spoke about your client, you know, who has the movement of the CBA. Like, it's very clear that that individual has the right customer from the start. She's very, very
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: clear
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: and intent on who they're bringing in. And I remember Dan Kennedy talking about this immensely, where he talks about if you your goal should be to get a customer for life. And the way you do that is by getting the match right from the start. It starts with your messaging. And it's like, say for example, you know, around I guarantee what will happen over the next four, like three weeks.
• 46:47
  I have loads of coaches on Instagram and they'll go, you know, right, okay guys, you know, you can still enjoy the Christmas period, get into shape while drinking. You can still like, here's all of the low calorie drinks that you can have, etcetera. Like, I don't think people understand how their marketing actually weaves into their coaching because I know for myself, I kind of went through that sort of period of going like, hey, you know, you can get into shape while just like drinking as many pints as you want. Like, because I thought that's what would make me attractive. And it did make me attractive to someone who wanted to get into shape while nailing pints on a regular basis.
• 47:19
  So the problem was that when they weren't losing weight, and they weren't getting into shape, what's the one thing I can't tell them not to do? Like I can't tell them not to nail pints because they're like, well that's
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: the reason why
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: I kind of signed up with you from the first place. So I think the point I'm kind of coming at here is, I think it's really clear that you are relentlessly refining who it is you really want to work with and relentlessly refining and chipping away and chipping away and chipping away at that. Like what we kind of spoken about in terms of that uniqueness, and being able to kind of build a movement and having, you know, almost like a collection of your ideal customers comes down to that sort of process. So that can also be scary and it can also be challenging and something that someone may not have ever actually kind of thought is possible to really actually consider who do I really want to work with. So how have you done that?
• 48:12
  Because obviously you've done that multiple times and kind of evolved that avatar. But how do you kind of go about going like, this is who I really want to work with and then kind of molding everything around that individual?
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: Mate, it's a great question. I think before I go into like how I think it more becomes like why because there's so many coaches right now who are so scared to say something wrong, they're so scared to put their opinion across. And one of the first trainings that we start with with our coaches is called the Inspirational Leader Storybank where we get them to document their full life journey. You know, my story about Sainsbury's for example is one that I've shared to relate to my market as well and get them to know me. But I think the first thing you have to think about is that right, what opinions and thoughts and feelings and stuff that piss me off, what are they?
• 49:02
  Right? Because the best way to get the right person in front of you is to get the wrong people away from you. So I I I asked a client I asked I was again, I was struggling in market about four, five months ago, and I was like, right. I need to shake up here. And I just I I was but selfishly, I had my clients on a big call, and I was like, right.
• 49:20
  Before we end this call, I need to know what made you sign up. And what you do is you get the usual answers, Kyle. You get the, oh, I need results. I go, no. No.
• 49:28
  No. No. What individual piece of content or thing that I said made you book that call? What what and I waited and I waited. And the number one answer, one out of all those clients, triggering content.
• 49:45
  And I went, right. Okay. So actually, when I trigger people because the world's getting soft as you know, mate. So my triggering is a bit more I've always held back now because I'm a bit, oh, the white people but actually, I just asked my clients and they all signed up because I triggered them. No.
• 50:01
  One of my best clients, mate, I've had them for the longest time and literally the week after I started up getting coach. He unfollowed me, hated me. And he's now got the highest, I'm sure you won't mind me saying, the highest lifetime value of any client I've ever had. So he realized actually I'm being a little bit here. Like, he's true.
• 50:20
  He's right. What he's saying, just spoke right to me. He gets it. And so I think the first thing you have to do is speak your mind. You don't have to be controversial for the sake of it.
• 50:31
  Know, if you're an introvert then, but just get your point across. Put out there what you want in the world, what what you feel is right. So I've had a lot of people cut like through the grapevine, MRR, oh, you should charge up front. I mean, that's the best part of it. This is like where the MRRs gather traction because it's like, if you think MRRs a price point, then I'm on to a winner here.
• 50:50
  Do you know what I mean? Was a So first of all, find out who are not your people. And the only way to attract the right people is have an opinion, man. Please, I know you may not be confident or whatever, speak your mind and it doesn't have to be I don't like high rocks. It can be you and your stories discussing your likes and dislikes of food and what you and your partner like to do at the weekend.
• 51:13
  You will get engagement from that, people will buy into your lifestyle and stuff like that. So you'll start to draw the right people, you'll disqualify those who don't fit in your world. And then from there, look at your best clients, look at the traits of them, look at the parts of the journey that were turning points to them. Did you actually just straight up tell them, look, this isn't good enough. And because of that, it created a new behaviour change, which then created your dream client.
• 51:41
  Another thing I will say is that I think a lot of coaches do wrong is when they find out about this dream client thing is they go and try and find the dream client in the after state. So for example, if you were my client and we'd spent twelve months working together, we've been through a lot of ups and downs and now you're like, Cal's amazing, he checks in every week, he updates his nutrition, He's amazing in the community. He's done all these transformations and awards and stuff. People go and try and look fuck like you, Kyle. And it's like, no, no, no.
• 52:09
  You created that. He's both created that as a journey. So don't go out there. Like, I did the same mistake. Guys, listen.
• 52:16
  I was like, okay. I want seven k coaches because they've got money. And I'm a way out there marketing to seven k coaches using words like scale. Then they come in and they're, like, uncoachable. They've learned a lot of bad habits.
• 52:28
  They're from other mentorships. And I like, woah. I don't want these guys. So I think it's coming down to disqualify people, to qualify people. You need to find out who you are first, you need to put your voice out there and you need to get people to come to you.
• 52:42
  And then I think it's just looking for clues in the client journey, those who are successful and go, okay, that's what happened here. We set really high standards from the off. Those who stuck to the standards became, they changed their behaviors, they bought into the process, they bought into the brand and the movement, then they became dream clients. So listen to me, I'm still figuring it out. Sometimes I look at my clients and I go, how did I find more of them?
• 53:07
  They go, woah, what a mixed bag of people. But then if you really look in, if you've done a psychology test on them all, they are just incredibly coachable, generous people who want to be part of some.
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: It's almost like the answers that you've kind of come to have come through looking back and seeing what has happened. I come back to that kind of data collection. And before we kind of started recording, we were talking about reflection. How do you go about because you are hyper aware, like you seem very, very hyper aware of what is happening and what has happened. So even to the extent of going super, super deep in identifying what is that one piece of content.
• 53:46
  Like what was that one piece of content that actually caused you to sign up? And again, you're looking at the data and the story that it tells. And I remember we were both in Russell's course. I remember my coach was always saying, he was like, you've got to collect the data because the data tells the story as to what is actually going on. So how do you personally, an entrepreneur, how do you go about reflecting?
• 54:15
  And then, I know this could be quite an in-depth and challenging question in that sense, but how do you go about reflecting on that and then connecting the dots to then determine what your next actions need to be?
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's important for people listening to understand that, you know, I make the thinking of a perception of me where I have a team and I have all these systems in place and I'm able to get all this information and but it's not true. Like, I'm actually one of my biggest weaknesses are actually metrics and all that jazz. I'm a kick the door down guy and try and market. I love marketing so I'm always putting a lot of time and effort into that. So for me it's more, right okay, how do we then use this information to put it forward in a way that is different?
• 55:03
  So I'm very motivated, Kyle, by creating things that are different. And it's not just for different sake. It's like, because then it would just be useless. It would maybe be too far left wing. But I I I've I've been trying to understand this myself and, you know, it's not put myself in any of these light.
• 55:23
  But what you've mentioned earlier is like, I get fascinated by somebody like Elon Elon Musk who like and it's a girl, I can't remember her name off the top of my head, who's very good at this. And it's like first principles, critical thinking. So it's like, when I when I was discovering MRR and stuff like that, when I look at a client's business order or I look at market and I'll look at a course that we've bought, go write very first principles and go, wait, what is the point of this? What's the actual thing? And I think it's just a few more years of experience now.
• 55:54
  So if I see a thing, I'm very good at looking at it and going, right, but what actually is that? And I guess my bullshit felt was just got better over the years, but I look at an idea, I look at the thing and I go, right, from first principles, what actually is this? So now, right, if I was gonna work with a business coach and I've just signed up with someone one to one now, like I'm not gonna go to him and go, okay, what's the offer? I'll go, what's what I only need one thing from you, mate. This is what I need from you.
• 56:22
  And and I've picked you because I know you're good at that one thing. So I think it's just dialing it back to really simple first principles now. I think it probably takes a few years of experience with us because I certainly never like, I feel like I've always done it, but I've never really knew what I was what I was doing. So again, mate, I come back to the point when someone used to have the busiest classes, right, in my in my gym and I went, wow. Why are they so busy?
• 56:45
  And he was leaving and I asked him for his tapes of what he'd played, so he gave me them. And I went and played his tapes and it was good. But I was like, what? Like, they're not as busy as him. And then I was like, I was asking the clan I was asking the members and stuff.
• 56:59
  I was like, what what what made it why did you why there was so many people at this? It's like, oh, he came around and spoke to his during it and made sure we're doing a proper form. I went, is that it? It's like, yeah, like PTs don't do that, mate. They stand there at the top of the class looking pretty, shouting oddles and I went, ah, right.
• 57:15
  Okay. So I just started weaving in and out as people squatting and stuff. And then it was like, oh, he's And they felt seen mate, the number one thing of any course, member, they felt seen. And I went, wow. And then they went, that guy saw me, he told me to stop, know, sink my knees in on the squat and he actually gave me out of your trouble because I never went low enough.
• 57:33
  Tell their partner that done on that night. It's like, alright, okay. And so then it happens at that. So I think it's a difficult one to ask answer, mate, but I think really looking at things from our first principle, like, actually is this here? What is he, like, is he selling?
• 57:46
  And and if you're gonna buy something, just ask the question. Just go like, what is like, what is that? I mean, it's terrible because over the years I've built this up and I put a film on me and I just know what's gonna happen. I just I'm like, right. What films that what they try to tell us here?
• 58:00
  And I go, right. I think I know what's gonna happen. Yeah. Like, literally the first few scenes, mate. And it's because I'm just curious and that curiosity has led to just critical thinking, I think.
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: Mate, that is so powerful. That is so powerful. So thank you so much.
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: My pleasure, mate. I love those questions, man.
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: Thank you, mate. Just, yeah, I'm very similar to you. And I think that really kind of like wrap up whole point is is that curiosity. And also I think that like what's really cool is almost kind of like, yeah, you're constantly searching for the answers from, you know, kind of from other people. And the fact that you're still, you know, consistently hunting down for that.
• 58:36
  Yeah. And just refining and refining and refining. Right. It's it's very inspiring. So thank you so much, mate.
• 58:43
  So for the next time, mister Bradley, thank Thank you very much, my
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: you, sir. Thank you, everyone listening. Appreciate it, man.