Latest / The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten / What Does "A Great Sex Life When Dating" Mean?

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What Does "A Great Sex Life When Dating" Mean? · The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten

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Hi everybody, and welcome to the Doctor Psych Mom Show.
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Today we're going to be talking about what a great sex life
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looks like when you're dating. And because a lot of people tell
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me they had a great sex life and then they don't know what
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happened after marriage. And invariably this is not
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correct. But having this sort of frame
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really makes you hate your partner, which is not good for
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your marriage. And so I will discuss that as
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soon as I tell you to subscribe. My most recent subscriber
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episode was on common sexual empathic ruptures.
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So empathic ruptures are not only in the emotional sphere.
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I mean, in as much as as emotion can be distinguished from sex
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anyway, because those are really the same thing for anybody with
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a physical, physical touch, love, language.
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But anyway, so that's a great episode if you've ever been
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somebody that was turned down on something that you thought was,
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you know, definitely gonna happen, like your birthday or
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you know, your honeymoon even, or there's other ruptures in
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there as well. Okay.
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So now moving to the topic today, if you feel that your sex
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life was quote great when dating, and many people tell me
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this, and that your partner just stopped liking sex after
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marriage and there was no way that you could have known, then
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you are certainly at risk of having this horrible bait and
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switch idea, which is promulgated so widely in the
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manosphere as the women all sit down together and they're like,
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hey guys, you know what we're going to do?
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We're going to marry a guy, then we're going to stop liking him.
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But good. Good, because we'll only have to
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suffer through two decades of being with some guy we hate.
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It's a good deal for us. Eventually we get to divorce him
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and take half of his money, even though of course most of us work
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as well and increasingly are even the breadwinners.
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I mean, like, let's be real. So nobody comes into a marriage
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wanting to bait and switch. Of course people are trying to
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put on their best foot, but as I've, you know, put their best
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foot forward. But as I've discussed so many
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times, honeymoon stage makes you feel drunk.
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The woman genuinely feels that you have a magic cock, that she
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has never felt anything so wonderful before.
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Maybe she didn't like sex before you because it wasn't you, her
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one true love. In reality, it's the honeymoon
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stage talking, and after the honeymoon stage she goes back to
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whatever she was before. Of course, when she's single,
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she also has a higher sex drive with whoever she meets because
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those are tiny little honeymoon stages.
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But within monogamy, with age, with kids, with hormonal
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changes, people just don't act like they did in the beginning.
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However, some people are closer than others and so it can really
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help you to understand why your sex life dropped off if you
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understand where it was really at in the 1st place, right?
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So what is a good sex life or a great people tell me it was a
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great sex life. What did it look like for many
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of the men saying this? No oral.
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She doesn't like his penis. She'll touch it under duress.
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This is this is the honeymoon stage, man.
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She will not go down on him during a honeymoon stage.
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If she does, she will not swallow.
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Discussing that is like bringing up fucking her mother.
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I mean, it's like completely taboo, you know?
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And she really never, never really initiates unless she's
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completely wasted. There's no real experimenting in
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the bedroom. You guys don't really talk about
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sex outside the bedroom. You know approximately less than
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nothing about her previous sexual history discussing
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anything related to sex. Like saying, oh, I bet those
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people are gonna have fun tonight.
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If you see a couple making out in a bar she thinks is gross or
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she looks at you like you have 5 heads.
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And in many cases there's not even a lot of physical touch.
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Literally this quote, Great sex life.
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The woman was not very touchy feely.
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Guys and women use that as like a way to denigrate physical
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touch. Love language, touchy feely.
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But like, truly, it's a good thing.
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Touchy feely if you have a physical touch, love language
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you like to touch on, feel. That's good, but it's like this
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stupid little name makes it sound like a childish thing.
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So I wish, you know, I mean, people wouldn't say it like
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that, but anyway, so there was not a lot of touch.
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Sex was pure intercourse, always initiated by the higher libido
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partner. It was pretty quick.
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Foreplay was low. I mean, had the guy not been
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drunk on honeymoon stage hormones or had he had more
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prior experience, he would have seen this for what it is.
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You know, basically a mammal in heat.
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You know, like the woman is. He's a new partner.
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The point evolutionarily of intercourse is to make a baby.
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So everybody's supposed to be excited by a new partner, but
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then within that there's people who are particularly sexual and
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sensual. So there's no need for her to
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give you head if you didn't know this, you she can't get pregnant
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that way, right? So, so if she truly is just
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turned on because biologically her body is responding to a new
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mate, then yes, she is going to want to have straight up
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intercourse whether or not she's on birth control, right?
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I mean, you know that it's the same thing though.
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She just wants to have sex. Her body wants to have sex.
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Her body is is telling her new mate have sex.
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I like this one. Let's make a baby, you know?
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And she doesn't know what's happening, she assumes, and
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she's never really thought about sex much before anyway.
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Then it must be you and that it'll be like this with you
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forever. Of course she wasn't a very
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sexual person, didn't have a sexual self concept.
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There was no touchy feely of any kind.
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Behavior was no oral. There was barely any looking at
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your penis, and so when her natural drunken hormones abate
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after the honeymoon stage, a precipitous decline after 1 1/2
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to three years after commitment. Pretty much the same for
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everybody. Even if they think it's not
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going to be even the highest libido, people feel a decrement.
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And The thing is, of course, I've said this a million times
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before, but I could say it again.
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Men also have a decrement after the honeymoon stage.
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Their testosterone is just so high that they don't notice it.
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But everybody has a novelty effect.
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In fact, it used to be thought that men were the ones who had
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most of the negative impact of monogamy, right?
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And that's why they cheated. So when cheating was more like
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common and socially condoned, you know, implicitly.
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So for example, there is, I mean, watch man men, you know, I
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mean, nobody thought a man would go on a business trip or I work
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with. I used to work at the VA, right.
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There was a lot of guys from Vietnam, Vietnam, vets.
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Nobody thought if you were dating your guy that there was
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just no shot, that for all his time in combat in Vietnam,
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anywhere else that he wasn't going to possibly have sex.
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You know, you thought he wasn't going to fall in love if you
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guys were planning to get married.
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But many women have told me, yeah, I don't know what he did
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then that was a different time and they didn't really think
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about it the same way. Many people, not everybody,
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right? But but it used to be thought,
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if a man has such a high sex drive, higher than the woman, at
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a certain point it may be like a situation that don't ask, don't
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tell. A situation like on The
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Sopranos, right, Like where they all had their mistresses.
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So the the point is what not, whether or not this is bad or
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good or anything, times have changed.
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Men are expected to be much more monogamous, completely involved
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in child rearing, and women and men are supposed to be more
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similar. Some people think that this is
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biologically impossible and put sets of people up to fail.
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Who knows? The point is now that men really
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can't cheat. And I have a whole article on
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why today's cheaters are more addictive because there's such
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social disapproval. It's the same as today's
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smokers. I used to study smoking
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cessation. I did my master's on that, and
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because my lab was an addiction lab and that's what we focused
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on. But the smokers today are much
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more addicted than the smokers used to be.
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It's harder for them to quit. Why?
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Because everybody else sloughed off when there became a lot of
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social disapproval and smoking was thought of as gross.
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You can't smoke in the bars, can't smoke on airplanes, can't
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smoke anywhere. So anybody who wasn't really
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addicted stopped, and only the people that were extremely
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addicted remained. Anyway.
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So the point is with cheating, now that everybody thinks that
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if you cheat, it's the worst thing in the whole world, only
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the people who are more compulsive sexual addicts, which
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there are actual sex addicts, that is the thing.
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It's not a guy with a high sex drive.
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It's a guy who spends hours and hours jacking off to porn, sees
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multiple hookers in a day on business trips, etcetera.
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You know, then those guys remain as the the ones who are more
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likely to cheat, right. And as I talked about and why
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Women Don't Usually cheat my post women that cheat are more
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often have personality disorder characteristics like borderline
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because again, super huge social disapproval for cheating.
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So anyway. And there's a great book, by the
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way, The Erotic Silence of the American Wife, which can tell
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you a little bit about these changing more rays.
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And there's Wednesday Martin's book, whatever that was named.
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But it was Wednesday Martin's book, and it's not Primates of
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Park Avenue. I don't remember the title.
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And there's What Do Women Want? By Daniel Bergner And they're
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just a lot of books. You know, you can always go to
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Doctor samantharodman.com/rec Reading and see all the books
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that I recommend to understand this.
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You know, Women's Decrease in sex Drive and Why People Cheat
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and all these Things. State of affairs by Esther Peril
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certainly read that too. Anyway, where where were we
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anyway? So if guys are not expected to
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cheat and they want the woman to be everything to him sexually,
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because there's no possibility of him ever sleeping with
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somebody else, and when he thinks that in any way she was
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somehow saying she was offering something that she wasn't
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willing to give later, then of course he's going to hate her
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because she's the entire gatekeeper of his entire sex
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life. But my point is, I've never seen
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that. I've never seen a woman that was
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like, you know what? I actually reeled him in by
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telling him I'm going to give you blowjobs once a week after
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we got married. Then as soon as we got married,
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I said fuck you like that's like just not a thing.
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She feels high on life. She feels excited.
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She can't imagine ever not feeling this way.
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Like when you're drunk, you're literally, you don't have any
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judgment. Your your mind has been hijacked
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by the alcohol. And in this case, it's the
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adrenaline and the hormones and the excitement, right.
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And This is why our species continues, because people feel
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this way. And it's like how you fall in
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love with your baby. Like you can't imagine how much
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you're going to love your baby until you see your baby.
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A lot of people say, oh, I'm not even going to be into being a
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mother. And then they see their baby and
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they fall in love with their baby.
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Falling in love is it's it's an override on the system.
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It's an override on your cognition.
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Like, you can't think straight. Literally.
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So this is what happens. And then guys do not think, well
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actually, like, you know, if she doesn't even give me a blowjob
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now, how's it going to be when her sex drive drops?
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Because they don't think about her sex drive dropping because
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nobody talks about sex and not in our society.
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Hopefully that's going to change and hopefully I'm doing my part
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to change it. But my point is, if you go back
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and you really think about your sex life with your now low
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libido partner, were there signs that they were very
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experimental? Were there signs that they just
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couldn't get enough of you, that they were thinking about your
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sex life, that they had said being a sexual person was part
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of their identity? Or were there signs that they
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were in heat? Basically, you know, really into
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you to breed with then and not really into sex?
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Or certainly not into thinking or talking about sex.
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Not really into sex before you either, which by the way, could
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be masked if a woman had multiple partners.
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There are women who have multiple partners just because
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they don't know how to say no, really.
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And they want to, you know, keep a boyfriend and they don't
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really know what's going on. So, you know, they have said so.
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So that's actually the situation.
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That's the worst for, for thinking this.
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So the woman had sex a couple of times here and there with
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partners, right? She never really liked it, but
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that's because she never fell in love with anybody.
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Really. Now she fell in love with you.
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She's more attracted to you. So she does have a higher sex
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drive than ever before. But that how she was with the
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other ones is how she going to be with you after this honeymoon
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stage recede. She just didn't even get into
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honeymoon stage with anybody else.
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She never really liked anybody else.
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She was just kind of going along with sex, you know, because she
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thought you're supposed to have sex.
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It didn't really bother her, but she didn't think that it was
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great. When she met you, she was really
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into you, you know? And so she felt that sex with
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you was great, but in reality, you you were the thing.
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She really was obsessive for her, for even an avoidant can
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get a little bit obsessive. You know, in the new love face
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she was, she was into you. So then she was more sexual with
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you than anybody else. But still, it wasn't like she
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was, you know, lusting after you in the way that that other more
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high sex drive women might have been.
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She wasn't open about sex. She wasn't thinking about sex.
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And she certainly wasn't really an open minded person and didn't
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have sex as something that is a hallmark of her identity because
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with such women. So I have a whole podcast.
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Do high libido women have spontaneous desire within
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monogamy? And they don't usually, except
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when they're ovulating or of course when they're young or
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before kids or whatever. Sometimes women write into me
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and they're like, I don't know what you mean.
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I have spontaneous desire all the time.
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And I'm like, how many kids do you have?
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And they're like, none yet. But you know, and I'm like,
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girl, you're like wait, wait, because you're obviously young
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and you got time to rest and relax and time to think about
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sexy things. And that's great.
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But like wait till you have children, hormone switch, you're
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breastfeeding, you're not sleeping.
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And then we will see, you know what you're really like, you
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know, in in that time. So when high libido women get
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past the age of being in their 20s or no kids or whatever, and
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then they start to experience, you know, responsive desire, go
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back to responsive desire podcast, you know, like they are
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very, very surprised that they don't have.
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And women are always very surprised when their sex drive
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goes away because nobody talks about it.
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Right. So your mother could even try,
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she could be like, well, you know, it's not always going to
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last like this. And you're like, fuck you mom.
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You don't know anything. You don't even know what
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hairstyles are cool. So how could you possibly know
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what my sex life's going to be like?
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It's going to be awesome because that's how kids are.
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That's how young people are. They don't believe their
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parents. I love all these guys that are
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like, how should I tell my son about how sex drive diminishes?
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And I mean, if you're like, particularly close, give it a
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go. But he's going to think, man,
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that dude's still listening to, like, Steely Dan driving his
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stupid Tesla. Like, he doesn't even know what
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social media platforms are and like, how the fuck does he know
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anything? Like, it's cute that he's trying
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to talk to me, but his sex life with my mom grows is going to
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have nothing to do with how the girl that I'm dating is going to
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continue to want to give me blowjobs until I'm 75.
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Because that's just the beauty of youth.
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They have endless hope. So it's very difficult to talk
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to them, you know, on a peep level about what's going to
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happen because of course you also don't want to be a Grinch
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and you don't want them to hate you.
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So, you know, this is, This is why eventually people who are,
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you know, young go back and say oh wait, maybe my parents had
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something right about what they were saying, but that doesn't
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happen for a long time and that's just the cycle of life.
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But anyway, the the the point being, TLDR if the woman is not
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really into sex. Oh, the high libido women I was
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talking about. So high libido women then also
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have responsive desire. They still don't go around
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feeling horny all the time unless somehow they're on
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testosterone pellets. You know, right before they like
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punch somebody because you know, there are other side effects of
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things, but anyway. Or they're ovulating or, you
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know, the stars aligned and they are drunk on vacation.
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But the high libido women also have mostly responsive fire
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within monogamy. They just know that they love
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sex. Sex is part of their self
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concept. So they get into bed, they are
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they're deciding to be with him. They're deciding to make
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themselves into a sexual, you know, a situation.
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It's like Samantha on Sex in the City, like she, you know, like
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she she first of all she was single.
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So she was always dating new guys.
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So of course her sex drive was going to be through the roof in
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her 40s, because it was always new guys.
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And then interestingly, in the movie, you know, she was trying
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to be monogamous and she got fat and her sex drive sucked and she
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just felt like shit. Because it was like her first
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time not having constant honeymoon stage sex, which is
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why she was so sexual. Which is why a lot of guys think
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that women's sexual prime is in their 40s.
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Because when they were younger, they got hit on by some single
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women in their 40s, which are not married women in their 40s
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who have been married for 20 years who do not feel like
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they're having their sexual prime.
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So anyway, the high libido, spontaneous desire.
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Women don't exist within monogamy mostly.
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But sometimes, you know, there's always outliers.
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People have naturally different levels of testosterone, quite
16:56
honestly. But the average woman who's high
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libido also has responsive desire, but it's part of herself
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concept to be sexy and sexual and to have a loving close
17:06
marriage and be a Good Wife. And she likes how you know she
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looks and how sex makes her feel.
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And it's like part of how she is.
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She feels sexy. She likes to be sexy.
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She likes him to feel that she's sexy.
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So she gets herself into bed. She starts thinking about sexy
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things. Maybe she puts on a lingerie or
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something to help herself out, and she she gets herself into a
17:27
situation where foreplay can begin, or at least him looking
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at her with desire can begin or whatever, turns her on.
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And then the desire kicks it. It's still, even for her, not
17:37
how it was when she was 25, but for the woman who was a low
17:40
libido woman. She had a high sex drive in the
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honeymoon face that just completely dissipated because it
17:46
was a complete artifact of being a mammal in heat.
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So do not T LDR. Don't hate your wife for a
17:53
supposed bait and switch. She didn't know what the hell
17:55
was happening. She was drunk on new hormones.
17:57
She never liked your penis much. She didn't try to go down on
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you. She thinks bodies are
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disgusting. She didn't really ever like
18:04
kissing. If you go back and think about
18:06
it, she certainly never liked to talk about sex openly.
18:10
Never told you about a fantasy. I mean had you understood about
18:15
you know about the honeymoon stage then she it would have
18:18
been an easy it would be so obvious that this woman's not
18:22
going to want sex later but you didn't know anything and she
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didn't know anything. The hallmarks of youth, you know
18:27
And so thus this happened your situation.
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So the point of this now you could get into couples therapy,
18:32
sex therapy whatever or refer to any of my posts that talk about
18:35
how to handle these situations which are myriad number in the
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thousands between my posts and my podcasts.
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You know even the very first episode have ways to make your
18:45
highly sensitive wife like sex a lot more and that's not just for
18:47
highly sensitive women. I get a lot of feedback on that
18:50
very first episode that it is and it's also opposed that it's
18:54
very helpful for all women. But anyway, the point is of this
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one. Realize that the signs were
18:59
there if the sex life wasn't actually great when dating.
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So that you don't hate her, or worse, think that she was some
19:06
bait and Switcher which will just make you hate her and isn't
19:10
true unless she has a profound personality disorder.
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All right, talk to you guys soon.
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Have a great day. Bye, bye.