Latest / The Kink Consultant / Ep 26 - Exploring Little Space: A Conversation with Dove on Kink, Relationships, and Self-Discovery

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Ep 26 - Exploring Little Space: A Conversation with Dove on Kink, Relationships, and Self-Discovery · The Kink Consultant

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It's the King Consultant podcast where we're turning up the heat
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on all things kink and dating, relationships and pop culture.
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So close the door, plug in your headphones, and let's get down
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to it. Hello everybody, and welcome to
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this week's episode of the Kink Consultant Podcast.
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I am delighted to introduce Dove of Little Spaces as my guest
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today. Welcome, Dove.
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Thank you. Hi.
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You are an Instagram creator and educator for littles and people
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interested in exploring their little side.
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A little bit like caregiver dynamic as well.
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Overarching, but yeah. So we were introduced through a
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mutual friend, or at least I found you through a mutual
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friend and I love content. I've been wanting to have you on
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for a while because you're just doing so many interesting things
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in the space. So in the past year, I think
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since I started following you, you've released a book.
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You have a course that you're offering as well for littles and
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exploring your little side. So the first course now is just
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for littles because you can explore that site solo and one
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day there will be a caregiver little dynamic course probably,
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but not now I. Would love to hear more about
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your journey of how did you discover you are a little.
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Honestly, I was just reading romances.
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I had a time that was kind of difficult.
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I was just moving a lot, et cetera.
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And I just found romance books to be such a good escape.
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So I was reading so many books. At some point, one of the books
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had a spanking scene. In the spanking scene of that
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romance book, I was like, this is so freaking hot.
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I didn't know about King, OK. And so I was like, this is so
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hot. This is the hottest thing.
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I reread that two or three times.
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I touched myself to it. Obviously it was very hot and
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then I was like, I want to read more books that have these kind
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of descriptions. And so I discovered through that
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BDSM books, DS dynamic ones and domestic discipline.
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That was the discovery. And then from there, at some
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point without knowing it, I started a book that I thought
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would be I think a domestic discipline 1 and it ended up
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having a like daddy Dom little girl dynamic in it without
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calling it that, which was a great introduction.
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It was non sexual and it was without calling the daddy daddy
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and a little little, which made it really soft for me.
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But I was like something's different in that connection.
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And that was kind of the start because then I was like read
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from that author more and she had books that had more explicit
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DDLG things and then I read more different things.
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I was just like, at first I was like, I feel so much shame, but
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at the same time this really speaks to me.
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And so this was my introduction was actually reading.
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There's so much that you said that now I'm like, I'm really
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excited because obviously I love spanking and had similar
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experiences. The shame is really difficult to
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navigate. Because it's actually my little
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side was something that I was so hard trying to suppress and that
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I disliked very much that it would come out so much in
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relationships. So it was something that I felt
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was wrong with me and that I would even tell my partner like,
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I don't know, this keeps coming up, this kind of like high
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pitched voice and behavior. And I would try to like suppress
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that. And so because it was such a
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shameful part, I thought something's kind of wrong with
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me. And so reading it, I was kind of
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feeling ashamed for the character in the book, like a
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special when it started being obvious, little daddy dumb
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little girl books, the first one was a soft introduction because
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it wasn't as obvious. Then when it became more like
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apparent and very childlike behavior, etcetera, I was like,
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I'm feeling so ashamed for that character, but I also need to
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continue reading this. Do you think you were projecting
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shame onto the character? Absolutely.
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You felt embarrassed that you also wanted this.
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Yeah, because I taught myself so much that this was wrong.
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So. Yeah.
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As a spanko, someone who has a spanko fetish, I can't orgasm
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without thinking about spanking or punishment.
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It's interesting that no one told me to be ashamed of that.
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There was just something where I knew it wasn't quote UN quote
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normal so I felt shame. Or did you get messages that
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being a little was shameful or wrong?
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At first I didn't like my first partner for example, was totally
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accepting of it and I just freaked out for myself,
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especially when hearing recordings.
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I think at some point he took a video of me frolicking in the
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forest with him and I was like I sound so stupid and I just
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really disliked this. So at first I didn't get any of
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that messaging. I do remember one partner we
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watched together only for a few months but one moment my little
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came out because I started to feel safer with him and he
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freaked like he didn't like that at all and I could see it.
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So I had kind of the sensor of being not except I was like oh
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this is bad. We didn't stay together anyway.
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It wouldn't have worked, honestly.
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It wasn't the reason we separated, but I think it would
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have become. What does it mean to you to be a
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little? I would say it's this like
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connection to a more childlike side of me.
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It comes with if I really let myself fall into it, it comes
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with a lot of presence. I feel like the worries and
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everything go away and a lot of joy and expressiveness.
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I'll tell my partner so many times I love you, I love you and
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I will tell like the most amount of unhinged kind of emotional
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like affection, but also more unhinged kind of haughtiness or
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being annoyed. There's less filter and and more
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presence in terms of I'm right here in that moment.
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And I find more joy maybe also in more random things,
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day-to-day things or yeah. So it's connected kind of to joy
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and to presence and to childlike excitement, if that makes sense.
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It makes total sense. So when we talk about Littles,
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do you directly correlate it to age play?
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Then you tell me what age play is for you when you say age
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play. Thank you for asking.
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Yeah, for me, age play is role-playing a younger age
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because it's not about regressing back to that age per
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SE. It's more playing the role, even
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if you deeply feel it. It's if I were to do do it, I
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think I would probably age play or role play a teenager in high
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school who's getting spanked for not doing their homework by
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their teacher. For me, it's not to do with
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being a little, it's just about playing a different age and it
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lends itself to the role play that I want to do as a student.
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How do you think age play comes into little space, if at all?
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Do you view them as completely separate?
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I don't view them as the same thing, and I think it really
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depends on the people. So for me, my expression of
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littleness in an out of the bedroom is nothing to do with
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age play. I'm not role-playing anything.
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I might be leaning into this side of me, but I'm not
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role-playing it. And then sometimes I might be
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leaning into a little bit of that role play a bit in a method
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acting kind of way. Or I'll try things on.
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Yeah. Or I'd be like seeing, OK, I'm
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going to try this toy. I'm going to try this thing and
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see how it feels in accordance with my little side.
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But I don't really feel like I'm acting.
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But they can sometimes kind of sometimes the lines get blurry
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or you lean into one thing or whatever.
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It's very little age play and a lot more like just the natural
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leaning into this identity. And if I'm playing with someone
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also known sexually, like I'm talking about both in and out of
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the bedroom, right, The other person will also lean into that
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identity that they have. And they're not acting like
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anything specific. It's just leaning into the
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identity. As a caretaker, the other person
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being the care. Yeah, as a which I like, I know
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that now and I do that a lot as well.
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Caregiver Little is being used a lot more than Daddy Dumb Little
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Girl, because it's as an acronym, because it's a lot
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more. Inclusive.
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Exactly. The only thing that I dislike
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about the new name that is being used, even though I use it as
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well because I also want to include all genders, is that the
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caregiver word is a bit limiting to what I like in a counterpart.
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For me, the daddy Dom fits the character more because caregiver
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kind of limits the person to that caregiving quality.
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And I think that daddy or daddy Dom, usually we understand more
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that there's more elements of a Dom in it where a caregiver
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might feel a lot softer and dynamic in a way.
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So I like that it's inclusive. I don't think it's a perfect
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word. That makes a lot of sense.
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Labels are imperfect because of that.
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So it's more like labels are umbrellas and then there are
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different things underneath with their own unique attributes.
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OK, so when you go into little space and every time you talk
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about it, I relate to my need to be punished and how I'm not
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role-playing a bad girl. It's just how I am.
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I view it as the most authentic version of myself because I'm
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not masking, I'm not pretending to be normal, which is something
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that I spent a lot of my younger years doing because I've known I
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was into this since I was five years old and I've been hiding
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it for many years before I was out.
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You described kind of finding this a little later in life.
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Reading is what opened you up to this, but in hindsight were
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there. Signs.
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Absolutely. Yeah.
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I mean, as I told you, it was out in my relationships anyway.
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And then my longest relationship, we were vanilla by
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default, but we had elements of this kind of creeping in
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frequently. We also accidentally explored
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kink without knowing that it was that like a quite a bit, but it
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was almost by mistake, just like randomly.
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Oh, this was really good, but we don't know why.
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And it was like, oh, he had been like holding the space and
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instructing me a lot and that's why it worked.
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So for me, discovering kink and discovering little was within a
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month or two of each other. So I kind of discovered both in
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a very short amount of time. It was like, Oh, I now
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understand DS and BDSM and now, oh, now I understand little and
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this completely thing that I was ashamed of, All these things
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opened up at the same time. But I definitely also saw so
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many movie scenes that I had loved and watched and rewatched,
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you know, and you're like compulsively just rewatched the
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same little scene because the actor or actress acts in a
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particularly dominant way or a particular caregiver way or
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whatnot and talks to the other person in such a way that is so
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juicy. And I would just watch and
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rewatch certain scenes. And I'm like, oh, that's why I
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was so obsessed with some of these characters and some of
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these scenes specifically of that little moment in that
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movie. And I'm like.
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Can you give me any examples of movies that you?
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Yeah. So one I can think of right now
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is, for example, in the Golden Compass, which is a more of a
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children's movie. So you will have more like
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caregiver little dynamics with actual adults talking to
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children in movies. And what I was interested in was
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the adult talking. And Nick Kidman in that movie
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sometimes interacts with a girl and puts her hand under her chin
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and says a few things to her or also gets a bit strict with her
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and tells her, like, you have to take off this shoulder bag.
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And if we have an argument, I will win.
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And just gets kind of stern with her.
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And I had I would watch certain scenes so much from that one
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movie, even that because Nicole Kidman did such a good job being
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a little bit scary and at the same time, like really
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beautiful. And she was putting boundaries
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in place and sort of there was a safety in that she was looking
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out for this person. She was the bad guy.
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Did that add to it the fact that she was the bad guy?
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No, I think it just didn't matter to me because in that
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moment the person is talking that way and that's all I care
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about. But just to be clear, there's
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age that you are as a little. I think I kind of have a range
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of my little expression and so sometimes I can purposefully
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also lean into some of these things.
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I would say my most common easily accessed kind of frequent
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age, if I could call it so, would be around 10 in terms of
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the activities that I would like to do.
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And maybe the way I behave would be closer to a 10 year old.
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But then if I'm maybe using a pacifier or just leaning into it
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or I'm being very tired or whatever, maybe I've had an
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intensity and whatever, I might go smaller and feel much younger
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and also become much more sensitive to certain movies, for
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example, like if I go really, really small, I wouldn't be able
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to even watch a Disney movie. They're too intense already.
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Yeah. And then I sometimes might lean
11:50
into a more teenage type of character and feel like a rebel
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and put on some kind of music and a band T-shirt or something
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and feel really cool, like a cool teenage girl.
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But that's just less frequent. It happens too, and I sometimes
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lean into that. It's more like there's A and
12:04
there's a bit of depth of vulnerability and how quickly I
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can get in and out of these states.
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Would you say that you're little Based on this caretaker, little
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daddy Dom little explanation, it sounds like you are the
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submissive. Would you say that that's true?
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When I'm with someone else because I do enter a little
12:23
space alone, but when I'm with someone else, yes, I'm
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definitely also submissive. I love that you said you entered
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alone, right? Because this is something that
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can be explored alone. How do you explore it on your
12:35
own when you're in little space? What does that look like for
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you? How do you explore it?
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It really changes depending on my mood and depending on
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whatever is going on in my life. But I might have a certain type
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of activities that I might like to do for a while.
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So maybe for a time I might be really into building Lego or
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doing some coloring. I sometimes will leash myself
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actually to physically kind of feel a bit more contained in the
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space and set up maybe a blanket on the floor and be like this is
13:02
my space now. I have had different kind of
13:04
toys or activities are things that I like to do.
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And then there are times when I don't do anything.
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I might just lay down and be like, OK, this is my time to be
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small and I lay there. And it really depends on how
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much of A stretch it is from the way I've been all day to that
13:16
space because this is more rain off in the moment kind of state.
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So sometimes if I'm being go, go, go very boss babe type
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character, it might be a bit more difficult sometimes to
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switch gears and go small. So then I might need more help
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with myself. I might even start with taking
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shower and kind of slowing down and then maybe have more visual
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helps as well, or physical. I also think sometimes having a
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pacifier in for myself when I'm alone really helps because it
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gives me something that I can feel in my mouth and it kind of
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stops my talking and it creates that physical sensation that
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kind of helps me, especially if I'm alone.
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It can help, yeah. I'm not as much of a movie
13:55
person. Sometimes I'll do it.
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I'll have a very cute series I used to watch for a time Easy's
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Koala World, which is 10 minute episodes, lots of koalas, A
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adorable. I would watch that.
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But otherwise I'm oftentimes not very interested in TV and these
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kind of things. When I'm wanting to regress for
14:11
myself or to enter the headspace for myself, I want to be careful
14:14
with not calling it age regression because it's used in
14:16
a different context. I think we should talk about
14:18
that age regression is used in a different context, often
14:21
therapeutically, to help people process something where they are
14:24
taken to that space by someone else, I feel.
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Or like guided. More, they can also do it alone.
14:30
But yeah, age regression is generally used not in the
14:33
context of that lifestyle of and of King.
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And it can also be something that people experience
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involuntarily where they'll be in the headspace and they don't
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really have control over it. I always know that I'm in the
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headspace that I'm in. I always could get out of it.
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Like my adult brain is still observing me to a degree,
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especially like on many levels of littleness, I can get out.
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No, that makes so much sense that I think that's a really
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great differentiator is your adult brain is still present and
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can take over. It's a very conscious decision
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for. You to.
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Be in this space or indulge this space.
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Yeah, and it's a bit maybe like subspace.
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Sometimes you kind of go so deep into subspace you can say, yeah,
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a submissive after a certain level, their consent is really
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hard to really take for as it is, for example.
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So if you wouldn't go for consent in a sub that's already
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in subspace, and I feel like with the little headspace, it's
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similar. You would have conversations
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about things beforehand because even though I can get out of the
15:30
headspace or I still have my adult brain on, it can be harder
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sometimes depending on how deep in it I am.
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But it's still so that I'm conscious that I'm in that
15:39
headspace and I'm. I'm aware.
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Yeah, Do. You think you go deeper into
15:42
that space when you have your daddy Dom present.
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It is easier to more often do that.
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It's easier to have the other person holding space and to have
15:52
that contrast like a Dom, a daddy Dom or caregiver.
15:55
It's just like someone else providing contrast.
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So it kind of is easier to then be the opposite of what they are
16:01
in that moment and to go smaller when they're being big and tall
16:04
and holding the space. Sometimes a voice and someone
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saying something can be such an easy trigger point.
16:10
But I would say I've had also really deep, really beautiful
16:14
little times alone as well. And sometimes being alone can
16:17
open the possibility to try things out that might feel a bit
16:20
of an edge or a bit shameful in that moment or a bit like, oh, I
16:24
don't know yet if I really want to try that with someone else
16:26
yet. Or, you know, at the very
16:28
beginning when I found out about little, for about a month, I was
16:31
truly just spending time with myself first, coloring in and
16:34
trying little things and feeling better with that.
16:37
And at some point I felt more open to talk about it and to
16:40
open up to someone else. But it was kind of helpful for
16:44
me to be in my own little private space first.
16:47
Yeah, It is easier generally to go small with someone else
16:50
because they can hold the space I.
16:51
Totally understand though how doing it on your own allows you
16:55
to explore things that you get to be comfortable with it first
16:58
yourself before letting it out in front of somebody else.
17:01
Just let's have consciousness. Yes, I envy it because my fetish
17:05
is very tied to needing someone else present.
17:08
I need the Dom to counteract my sub side that is usually acting
17:13
out, but I can only act out if someone is there to bear witness
17:17
to it, even not physically. But there's very little to
17:19
explore on my own. Well, actually for me, I'd like
17:23
to. Sometimes when I'm doing my
17:25
little time alone, I like to sometimes just imagine someone
17:27
else is there. It's very fun because then I get
17:30
to have them say what fits in the moment.
17:34
And so yeah, sometimes it's helpful if I feel like I need a
17:36
little bit more space holding, I'll just imagine someone's
17:38
actually sitting there and maybe saying something to me.
17:41
But I have a very like easy imagination.
17:43
So it's quite, I could literally really imagine there's someone
17:46
else. I'm not hallucinating but like
17:47
can create an image and a voice and an attitude and then it will
17:51
help. Can I ask how you met your
17:53
daddy, Dom? So him and I were together for
17:56
five years. Then I discovered kink and VDSM
18:00
and little things. There was a quite a lot of
18:02
turmoil after that and so we ended up separating.
18:05
We tried a bit dynamic after like around the very, very end,
18:09
but it was very rushed and it was already a lot of things had
18:12
been complicated. So we separated and for a year I
18:14
was playing with other people. I met one person through social
18:18
media and I met one person through going to like a shibari
18:22
performance and I met someone else through a dating app.
18:25
Like I was just dating and I had also a long term friend, a girl,
18:29
a female friend. her and I ended up playing together.
18:31
Now that I was into kink, we suddenly had like also an to
18:34
each other, which was fun with the safety of the friendship.
18:37
And then my current partner is actually the person, the five
18:40
year relationship person. We ended up reconnecting after a
18:43
year and during that time he'd been also exploring his dominant
18:47
side and actually finding his authentic side of it and having
18:50
it not be a reaction of me finding it, but really like
18:53
himself actually realizing like, oh, this is me as well.
18:56
Like I'm truly this dominant person too.
18:59
And he didn't know we were going to get back together.
19:01
And he still discovered it. And basically after about over a
19:04
year, we reconnected and started to re explore the relationship.
19:09
We'd both grown and also other aspects that had been difficult
19:12
before. And we were careful because I
19:14
know it's not great to get back with your ex.
19:16
Like it can often be not the best idea, but it actually was.
19:20
It's been over half a year now and we're really just really
19:22
strong and really, really happy. And the relationship has never
19:26
been better. And the dynamic is great too.
19:28
And it has this like depth, that of the fact that we've been
19:31
together for that long before that.
19:33
One year gave you you both a lot of freedom to explore this
19:36
independently the way you both wanted to and you came to
19:40
something more organic. I've had relationships and
19:43
specifically because of my interest in BDSM and kink.
19:47
Like the more I discovered in younger years, the more it drove
19:50
a wedge between me and my partner.
19:51
That's one of the reasons my ex-husband and I ended.
19:54
And for me that led to a lot of shame.
19:56
More shame than I already felt because it sort of proved to me,
20:00
oh I'll never be happy if I'm kinky, Luckily I have.
20:04
For myself now, But when your relationship ended for that one
20:08
year, did more shame creep in? Like, how did it feel knowing
20:13
that this was part of you and a relationship ended?
20:17
All right, Kingster, let's talk about pleasure.
20:20
Not just mine, Yours too. If you're enjoying this episode
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I promise it'll feel oh so good. Take a second and give this
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all over that fifth star, pressing down, giving it exactly
20:39
the kind of attention it deserves.
20:41
Yeah, that's it. And you know what happens when
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you do? I get all hot and bothered
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knowing you're out there showing your appreciation.
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Plus, every time you leave a review, a naughty little brat
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somewhere gets that spanking they've been begging for.
20:55
So be a good listener and tap that star, won't you?
20:59
Thanks, love. Now let's get back to the fun.
21:05
So the finding out that I was a little, it was more a catalyst
21:09
for me to grow even more into who I was.
21:11
And some of the dysfunctions of the relationship became more
21:14
apparent. And the relationship didn't
21:16
actually break because of this specific because I'm a little,
21:20
it was more like a lot of turmoil was created through
21:24
this. But therefore I didn't feel
21:25
shame. I think because I reached for
21:27
community very quickly. I started talking with people
21:30
and I really affirmed this side of me very early on.
21:33
Like, you know, I read and then I started reaching out to people
21:36
and I also relatively quickly started my Instagram page.
21:39
So I had so much response of like you're fine.
21:42
So how did you even know to find community?
21:45
Because that is one of the number one pieces of advice I
21:47
give people. I get a lot of questions of,
21:49
well, how do you find community? It's almost like you found it so
21:52
easily. First of all, online, just the
21:55
reaffirming, the reassurance of listening to other people talk
21:59
through podcasts is one thing. I think it can help a lot.
22:02
And then it was I'm listening to real people talk on podcasts.
22:06
So okay. And then I looked at events, I'm
22:10
lucky to right now live in Berlin and it's a very kinky
22:13
city. And even though within King can
22:16
be the SM, the caregiver little aspect is not that much.
22:20
It still is something where I was able to meet some people and
22:23
I was able to also meet people who were into DS.
22:26
That was much easier to find such people.
22:27
So I went to munches and I went to some shibari classes.
22:32
I went to impact workshop to learn how to give and learn more
22:36
about that. And then doing the Instagram
22:38
kind of created that as well. So it's a mix of things.
22:41
And then through the Instagram, obviously, because it's very
22:43
little oriented. Then I also heard other littles
22:46
talk. I I think I met two people then
22:49
through the Instagram as well. When did you start your
22:51
Instagram in relation to this journey?
22:54
I was still in the relationship when the Instagram happened.
22:57
It's only, I think so I read the books and I think it took a
23:00
month of reading BDSM books until I found the little books.
23:04
And then it was another month of reading the little books, then a
23:07
month of listening to podcasts, then a month of talking to this
23:11
other person, this experienced caregiver type.
23:14
And then I started the Instagram account.
23:16
So it was very early and that's why I, at the beginning I had a
23:18
post out every day because for two months I was posting a post
23:22
every day because I, I was learning so much and I had so
23:25
much to express when I'm learning something, want to kind
23:28
of create something out of that. And so the outlet that I found
23:31
was just making these posts. I mean from my own Instagram
23:34
too, it's just such a good way to express ourselves and what
23:38
we're thinking. And it feels less lonely when
23:40
especially when you get comments, positive comments of
23:43
like, oh, I feel this way too or I understand that feels really
23:46
good. So now were you finding
23:49
community? You were creating community.
23:51
Yes. How long has your Instagram been
23:53
up? Somewhat over 2 years, maybe two
23:55
years and a few months. How much would you say that your
23:58
little space is a part of your sexuality?
24:02
I think for me it can be two different things.
24:04
Like I can be in a little headspace and absolutely not
24:07
interested in sexuality. And then sometimes I can be in a
24:11
little headspace and the fact that I'm so relaxed and trusting
24:14
and in the moment can make me actually more susceptible to be
24:19
also open to sexuality. Because I think a lot of times
24:21
what can happen is that some things withstand in the way of
24:24
feeling lustful or of wanting it rather than needing so much
24:29
stimulation for it. It's more needing things to
24:31
remove the obstacles and to remove like the worries to
24:34
remove the day-to-day grind. And because when I'm in a little
24:37
headspace, I'm much more present and I'm relaxed and everything,
24:41
I can sometimes be more quickly open to go into sexuality.
24:45
So it's kind of more that, yeah. And if I'm cuddling with my
24:49
partners, sometimes I start to be a little horny.
24:51
But generally it's more that I'm just more receptive and relaxed
24:55
in the moment. I want to give an example of
24:57
something where I'm like I'm feeling maybe super relaxed and
24:59
I just want to have his penis in my mouth but not move.
25:02
I almost like a soother and he'll be maybe even not hard
25:05
yet. And I'll just be like can I
25:07
please? And I'll lay my head on his
25:09
belly and just have his penis in my mouth.
25:11
And maybe he's even on his phone or pretending to be on his phone
25:14
because it's part of what's fun when it's like very casual.
25:17
But then he'll slowly get hard and sometimes move a bit in my
25:20
mouth and then it will very slowly at some point lead to
25:23
more. But in the moment where I ask,
25:25
can I have your penis in my mouth?
25:27
I, I'm not trying to initiate. I'm not even thinking about the
25:32
next moment necessarily. And I also always know that I
25:35
can stop whatever's happening if it was ever to be uncomfortable
25:38
for me. But it will be this very slow,
25:40
gradual, kind of super innocent start that will become more and
25:44
more like sexual and explicit. And yes, it will start with me
25:48
just being like wanting something in my mouth, which is
25:50
actually a very little thing in that moment for me, which is
25:53
it's very soft, very beautiful. It smells nice because I'm on
25:56
his belly. It's comfortable and and we're
25:58
paddling and like suddenly I'm like, oh, I would love this.
26:00
And so yeah, in that way they can sometimes also merge.
26:04
And I want to say like some littles feel like they have a
26:06
very strong, like little space, doesn't feel sexual and then
26:10
they're still stuck submissive maybe.
26:12
Or some littles might not be part of the lifestyle at all.
26:15
But in the way that I talk about it, it's littles who are part of
26:18
the DS lifestyle generally or the BDSM.
26:21
But for me, it definitely is something where in some head
26:24
spaces it's sexual and some it is just open to sexuality.
26:27
I really relate to it specifically because of my own
26:30
spanking fetish. Of everything you described.
26:33
You could just insert the word spanking and punishment and I
26:35
would be like, yes, sometimes it is its own thing.
26:38
Sometimes it leads to sex because I feel my head is
26:41
finally clear and I'm turned on because for me it's a fetish.
26:44
I need to think about punishment and spanking like it needs to be
26:46
part of it to have sex, but I can just have the punishment and
26:50
spanking without it ever leading to sex.
26:52
As you're describing Little space, it sort of sounds like
26:55
the same thing. And then it's almost like
26:57
Schrodinger foreplay of this could be foreplay or it might
26:59
not be foreplay when he's in your mouth, but oftentimes it
27:03
leads to more. Exactly, yes, and I do not need
27:06
to be little though to feel like sexual or to enter a sexual
27:09
play. That makes a lot of sense
27:11
because for you then this is more of a kink and something
27:14
that you enjoy as opposed to something you need to achieve
27:18
orgasm or to have sex. Yeah, I feel like being little
27:22
itself is not the king, but maybe what is a king is just
27:26
hearing someone talk to me in specific ways.
27:29
Some like just me being little doesn't necessarily make me feel
27:32
kinky. It's just like the way he will
27:34
interact with me sometimes is just super hot.
27:37
Or even that friend of mine who's a woman, like I'm slightly
27:40
bisexual, but I lean way more towards man.
27:43
But except when it comes to king and if a woman is dominant, I'm
27:46
like, it doesn't matter that you're a woman, you're suddenly
27:49
the hottest person ever. And I mean, she's beautiful,
27:51
she's a beautiful woman, but I'll be suddenly way more
27:54
interested also even in her body and everything, because suddenly
27:57
I've been talked to in that way, I've been interacted to in that
28:00
way, so. It activated something in your
28:03
brain that sends you to a place, your little space.
28:06
Yeah, little and subbed in that moment a lot of.
28:09
People who hear about littles think that anyone who engages in
28:13
this dynamic is into pedophilia. For me, the reason that's
28:17
absolutely not true is because the consent aspect you're an
28:20
actual. Adult.
28:21
Yeah, as I said to you earlier before we started, I like to
28:24
compare it with, So a lot of people who think of that are
28:27
also Kingsters. Even Kingsters will be very
28:30
judgmental of the CGL specifically, even the DDLG
28:34
dynamic, they will think of also men wanting to be with little
28:38
girls in an actual way. And the way that I like to
28:41
compare it is in kink and especially in sado masochism,
28:47
we're engaging in things that look like abuse.
28:50
And what everybody will say is, well, the difference is there's
28:53
a conversation about it. There's a safe word, there's
28:55
consent. These are adults and nobody's
28:58
harming anyone. We're careful in the practices
29:00
that we're doing. At least it's risk aware, etc.
29:03
All of those things make it not abuse.
29:06
And that's the same things apply.
29:07
This might look from the external sometimes confusing if
29:10
someone is dressed up in a certain way, even though they
29:12
might have a very, you know, shaped body, a very adult body.
29:15
But whatever, because someone is dressed a certain way, whatever
29:18
it might look a certain way, are we suddenly liking this very
29:21
infantile way of looking because the person is actually wishing
29:25
for something else? But it's usually more to do with
29:27
the energy behind it. The energy of that little is
29:31
being very present, is being very sweet, is being very
29:33
vulnerable. So there's a lot of intimacy in
29:35
it. The dominant part is getting to
29:38
hold a big space and is getting to feel really good about
29:41
holding that space, about making this possible as well.
29:44
And it's just, it's a play in that moment.
29:46
But the big difference with anything is, of course, is
29:49
consenting adults. There's been conversations about
29:52
it. And obviously some people might
29:53
do this without conversations. And then it's abuse.
29:56
It's just like with kings, people might hide behind certain
29:59
terms and say like, I'm a Dom, but they're actually just using
30:02
that to be a predator. In that same way.
30:04
In this space, you have to be careful as well about people who
30:07
say they're daddy doms. And sometimes it's just
30:09
misinformation, like daddy doms thinking they're doing it right
30:13
and just forgetting about more of those conversations.
30:16
But there's conversation, they're safe for it, there's
30:18
care, there's going slowly into things and all of that.
30:21
And it's consenting adults. Yeah, I mean, the consent is
30:24
everything, but you also talked about asking the right questions
30:27
or having the right conversations.
30:29
And I do want to ask you general advice, but if someone is a
30:32
little or vice versa A caretaker and they want to vet a potential
30:36
partner, what kinds of questions would you suggest they ask?
30:40
So for me as a little, because I was doing some online dating as
30:43
well for a time, what I would ask is what's your previous
30:46
experience? I would also ask if they had
30:49
done any workshop or research or they were into specific
30:53
podcasts. And I would usually ask that,
30:55
you know, in a way that they don't feel pressured and they
30:57
don't feel like they have to have the right answer.
30:59
But in that way, I would know whether it's someone who's
31:01
interested in learning or not. I also see like, how is someone
31:04
writing about it, how they're interacting with me?
31:07
Are they open to hearing feedback?
31:10
I think sometimes when it comes to dominance and littles,
31:14
especially when you're vetting someone that might not have a
31:16
lot of experience, it's important to look for character
31:18
traits more so than what they already know.
31:21
Because if they're open to conversation, if they're open to
31:24
learning, and if they really want to do good with you, then
31:27
they will be able to learn whether you'd redirect them to
31:30
other information or not. They will be able to also hear
31:32
feedback and react properly to feedback.
31:34
And so I feel like sometimes people focus so much on, well,
31:37
is this person already calling you little girl in that moment?
31:40
But maybe that person has never heard that.
31:42
That's a thing you shouldn't do. Sometimes people are misinformed
31:45
and it doesn't always mean that they are fake or that they mean
31:48
or that they're trying to take advantage.
31:50
Sometimes they're just misinformed and they haven't
31:52
really had much time or they haven't known that they needed
31:56
to inform themselves. And sometimes just looking for
31:58
character is more important, especially if you want to not
32:02
only play with someone, but you really want a relationship needs
32:04
to fit on many levels. Well, even for play, but
32:07
sometimes for play, you might maybe look for an experienced
32:10
dominant. But I feel like for
32:11
relationships, sometimes it's like, OK, well, maybe this
32:14
person we match on so many points and I have a great
32:16
character and we just will have to go slow and start slow and,
32:19
and be patient and develop this slowly.
32:21
And they might have a little bit more to learn and we come to to
32:25
be then at some point able to do all the things.
32:27
I don't know. Looking at people's character,
32:29
that's sort of important in dating and meeting people in
32:32
general. You have to have some empathy
32:34
and give them grace and space to figure it out or be willing to
32:38
learn. The thing I always say is I want
32:40
to look for curiosity. I want to find someone who's
32:42
curious, because if they're curious, they're willing to
32:45
learn. Yes, curious and very much to
32:48
what response do they give to when you set a boundary or when
32:51
you give a feedback? Because I think some people
32:54
might be really prideful and react like kind of angry,
32:57
especially people who say, yeah, yeah, I'm a Dom and everything.
32:59
And sometimes they might lack a bit of humility.
33:02
And so I I look also for that, like how does someone react to
33:05
feedback, even gently? But it's just a great point of
33:08
OK, and do they try and push any kind of limit that you say that
33:12
you set? Because even someone who's not
33:14
so informed, like they shouldn't be someone that goes and try and
33:17
push limits that you've set. They should respect the
33:19
boundaries. Yes, exactly.
33:21
Otherwise that's a red flag. You have to be willing to put in
33:24
the time to explore because the perfect person probably isn't
33:28
just going to come out of nowhere.
33:29
I always say you teach people how to love you.
33:32
Sometimes you teach people how to be your perfect partner or a
33:36
suitable partner, especially when you have what I'm going to
33:39
say are niche interests. So sometimes you have to teach
33:42
people about that. Yeah, even if someone already
33:44
has experience with littles, every person is different.
33:48
The way I explore my little side, it is, first of all, can
33:51
be different today than it will be in a year, but second of all,
33:54
every person will be different. So, so it's always good to be
33:58
curious and open and everybody has to ask those questions.
34:01
And if you were to give more general advice for someone who
34:04
might be where you were two years ago or even 2 1/2 years
34:08
ago about exploring, like someone who just discovered that
34:12
they have a little side or things they might, what advice
34:15
would you give to that person? It's nice to start with maybe an
34:19
activity or something that gives you a bit of a framework where
34:22
you're like, is there something that I'm interested in trying or
34:25
that maybe I've been curious about?
34:27
For example, I don't know, maybe you want to get a stuffed
34:29
animal. I didn't have stuffed animals
34:31
from the age of 10 until like, I don't know, 25 or something.
34:34
Like I didn't have a stuffed animal and then it was the first
34:36
time in my life that I bought 1 when I entered littleness.
34:39
Or maybe trying a coloring book or trying something that you
34:42
feel could be fun or that you used to like as a child even.
34:45
And just picking up maybe that activity or that sensation like
34:49
the stuffed animal or a certain food that you might have thought
34:52
is shameful to one or a certain series that you used to love as
34:56
a child and you haven't watched in a long time.
34:58
Just like trying simple things. And I give something to do and
35:01
seeing how it feels and not putting any pressure to enter
35:04
any type of headspace. But also you might have found,
35:07
especially if you've had relationships as a little, you
35:10
might have found that this there was something that would come up
35:12
again, like maybe a higher pitch voice, a type of behaviour where
35:16
you didn't really understand what it was.
35:17
And just being able to reflect back on that and being like, OK,
35:20
maybe it wasn't so wrong. And so when it happens now I can
35:23
maybe judge it differently and label it differently.
35:26
I am really glad that you have a course out there for people who
35:30
want to explore their little side.
35:32
Who did you make the course for? I made the course for littles
35:36
who already have had some contact with their little side
35:39
who maybe they've had like a first relationship with someone
35:43
with whom they now discovered they were little and then now
35:45
discovering it. I know a lot of littles also
35:47
enter a first dynamic and then they break up and then they're
35:51
like, oh, I not only separated from this person, but I also
35:54
don't know what to do now because I don't know how to
35:56
connect with this side of me alone.
35:59
So I feel like I've lost both the person and a part of me that
36:01
I had good contact with or the tools who are even already like
36:05
they've been in this for a while and they just want to explore
36:08
more or they only do it in dynamic, but they want to have
36:11
the opportunity to sometimes doing it alone.
36:13
So it's definitely for littles who might have already done the
36:16
first few steps of exploring some things.
36:19
They're just like, oh, I want more, I want to explore more, I
36:21
want more kind of context on this.
36:23
I want some inspiration. I want to be kind of taken by
36:26
the hand and I want to be able to give myself that alone as
36:30
well, so I can really own this part of my identity and not make
36:33
it completely something that is only connected to someone else,
36:37
but it's really mine. That is such an empowering
36:40
message and course. I imagine then.
36:43
OK, amazing. And for anyone who wants to
36:46
access that course, you can find it at littlespaces.co.
36:50
I do want to just say maybe something like another myth that
36:54
is around, like people thinking little looks one way.
36:58
They might look at certain aesthetics and they might look
37:02
at on the Internet and see other littles who are wearing onesies
37:05
or having everything pink or having a million of stuffies and
37:09
maybe a very girly type of or a very baby type of design and
37:13
aesthetic. And they're like, oh, I feel so
37:15
connected to the dynamic aspect and even to that childlike
37:19
thing, but it just isn't. It's not that it's like it looks
37:23
to other people seem to be doing it differently.
37:25
And I just want to say again, they can be different age ranges
37:28
and it can also look different ways.
37:29
And you can maybe even love black or love blue or love
37:34
white. Like it can be something very
37:35
different. And also activities that might
37:37
not look particularly little little, but it's really about
37:40
the headspace that it is and whether that resonates like
37:44
this. Oh yeah, There's a headspace
37:46
that's more childlike and that that resonates also that
37:49
responds to a certain way that someone else might be
37:52
interacting with me in that protective, caring, mentoring,
37:56
dominant way. And yeah, you.
37:58
Even mentioned a little bit about different age ranges you
38:01
might feel and how you dress differently.
38:03
Like even for one person, different parts of them can have
38:07
different aesthetics. So yeah, there's no one way to
38:10
do this. Like words like little, it can
38:12
feel like a box sometimes. And I think it's important to
38:15
kind of take the word because it can be empowering to be like,
38:18
there's a word for this part of me and it's just a word we put
38:22
on something that's a psychological phenomenon.
38:24
And that's a whole identity. And the box shouldn't limit you.
38:27
It just helps to find content on this and to connect with other
38:31
people rather than like confine who you are now.
38:34
And it can always evolve and it can look different to everybody
38:37
else, and that's fine. I always say that about labels
38:40
in general, no matter what type of Dom or type of sub you are.
38:43
That's just helpful to know what to put into Google.
38:46
Start searching more. But it is not the only thing you
38:50
are. It doesn't have to be, at least.
38:52
But now that we're talking about titles and bucks, it brings me
38:55
to middles. In my mind, they're different.
38:57
Would you differentiate the two? Little space and middle space.
39:01
I do because the headspace also is a little different for me and
39:06
my experience at least. I guess as a middle, if you're
39:09
talking about someone that will connect more with activities and
39:12
things that are more teenage, this is also a headspace of a
39:15
brain that is more developed. And obviously we always have a
39:18
fully developed adult brain since we are adults and we're
39:21
just entering headspaces. But it is then still a headspace
39:25
that will be closer to probably your adult self.
39:27
And I find it's actually a great way sometimes to go into a
39:31
smaller little space to 1st, go into a bit more middle and that
39:35
go younger because it's just as closer to the adult brain.
39:38
So for me, they are different because the headspace feels a
39:42
bit different, but they are similar because the type of
39:44
dominant that is being wanted, that is being longed for or that
39:48
is being reacted to is generally quite similar, the type of way
39:52
that is being talked, et cetera. And also because it's still
39:55
reverting to a younger age in a way to a younger headspace.
39:59
Like we talked about earlier, the worries, the day-to-day
40:02
thoughts that sometimes cloud our mind and don't allow us to.
40:05
Really relax and be present. Yeah.
40:07
And often middles will have maybe more sexuality aspects
40:11
also pop out because theoretically that would be an
40:14
age that has more curiosity for that.
40:16
And so that can be found more often.
40:18
Also that people are middle representing online or whatnot
40:21
might have also a little bit more like sexy pictures and
40:24
things. Also, on top of your Instagram,
40:27
on top of a course, on top of releasing a book, you also have
40:30
a podcast yourself. Yeah, but it's small, like I
40:33
have only a few episodes for now because it takes forever to edit
40:37
episodes and to make them. I have answered some questions,
40:40
people have sent in voice messages, questions, and I've
40:43
also done now 2 interviews. But there's more coming with
40:47
other people who have either like a baby girl or a little
40:50
aspect or just kind of trying to put more perspectives than just
40:54
my own on things and to share more voices and to kind of share
40:58
also how varied this can be and how this can be lived out by
41:02
different people. So yeah, there's the Little
41:04
Spaces podcast is called Little Spaces and it's also in under
41:07
the link, littlespaces.co. Everybody can find everything.
41:11
You can follow Dove on Instagram at littlespaces.co if you're
41:15
looking for the links for these things.
41:16
It's littlespaces.co into your browser and Little Spaces
41:21
podcast on Spotify. Yes, awesome.
41:24
Thank you so much Dove for coming on.
41:27
I appreciate all of the information you shared.
41:29
It was really interesting and insightful.
41:34
If you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to subscribe, leave
41:37
a review, and share it with anyone who might find it
41:39
interesting. And if you have any questions or
41:41
topics you'd like me to cover in future episodes, feel free to
41:44
reach out e-mail info@thekingconsultant.com.
41:48
Until next time, keep on kinking on.