Latest / She's On The Money / Michelle Battersby’s Playbook for Career Moves, Confidence, and Thriving in Tech

Transcript

Michelle Battersby’s Playbook for Career Moves, Confidence, and Thriving in Tech · She's On The Money

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: My name is Tatasha Bamblet. I'm a proud First Nations
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  Speaker 1: woman and I'm here to acknowledge country t Glenn Young
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Ganya Niana, Kaka yah Ya, bin Ahaka Nian our gay
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: In Nimbina, yakarum Jar, Dominyamka, Domaga, Ithawakawaman, damon Imlan Bimba
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: bang Gadabomba in and now in wakah Ghana on yak
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  Speaker 1: rum Jar water Nadaa. Hello, beautiful friends, we gather on
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: the lands of the Aboriginal people. We thank, acknowledge and
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: respect the Abiginal people's land that we're gathering on today.
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  Speaker 1: Take pleasure in all the land and respect all that
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: you see. She's on the Money podcast acknowledges culture, country,
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  Speaker 1: community and connections, bringing you the tools, knowledge and resources
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  Speaker 1: for you to thrive.
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: She's on the Money. She's on the Money.
• 1:07
  Speaker 3: Hello and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast
• 1:10
  Speaker 3: that helps you build your career, grow your income, and
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  Speaker 3: actually get excited for Monday mornings. Our guest today has
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: a serious talent for spotting opportunities most people would probably
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: be too scared to chase, and then actually making them happen.
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  Speaker 3: She's gone from a very safe corporate job to launching
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: the dating app Bumble here in Australia to co founding Sunroom,
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  Speaker 3: a platform changing the way women and non binary creators
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  Speaker 3: make money. Along the way, she's raised millions, built brands
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  Speaker 3: that explode in the press, and crafted a career on
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  Speaker 3: her own terms. I'm your host, Victoria Devine, and here's
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: why I'm so excited about this chat. Michelle Battersby is
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  Speaker 3: the kind of person who shows you how to take
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  Speaker 3: bold moves and turn them into a career that just
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: keeps getting better.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: Welcome to the show, Michelle, or should I.
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: Say welcome to the show because you kind of did
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: a cameo while I was on Matt Leaf.
• 2:03
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: Well, I was thinking I have done this, but I've
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: never done.
• 2:05
  Speaker 5: This with you.
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: No, no, you got to take the wheel, and now
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: I've got the wheel back and now I get to
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: interview you, which is.
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: Very, very fun. I'm genuinely so excited about this. You
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: live in La so this I feel like has been
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: a long time coming, and a lot of like, what's
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: your calendar look like?
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: What's my calendar look like? Oh?
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  Speaker 3: Maybe not this trip, maybe next trip? Okay, what about
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: next trip? Like, yeah, we finally face to face.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: I know, feel surreal.
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: I'm so excited, like and I just know that my
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: community is going to be like, this episode's going to
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: be lit. So Michelle, when we have a little bit
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: of a look at your CV, I would say it
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: is nothing short of inspiring, which is exactly why in
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: the show I'm going to be taking the opportunity to
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: kind of put you in the hot seat and answer
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: the career questions that our community is sending us consistently,
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: things like how do you know when it's time to
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: change careers? And how do you actually be successful in
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: the tech space as women? What does this look like?
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: But first you've been working on I would say something
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: massive behind the scenes, and it's taken like now more
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: than a year, tell me about it.
• 3:07
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it has taken a very long time. So we
• 3:13
  Speaker 5: got some room acquired, so it's been.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: Sold as wheeling and dealing.
• 3:17
  Speaker 5: Yeah, as we record this, it's actually being announced tonight.
• 3:22
  Speaker 5: So it's being announced tomorrow morning in the US. The
• 3:25
  Speaker 5: company that we sold to is a company called fan Fix,
• 3:29
  Speaker 5: And it was such a journey to get here, Like
• 3:33
  Speaker 5: an acquisition process is just wild, very different to a
• 3:37
  Speaker 5: fundraising process I've found, and it had so many ups
• 3:41
  Speaker 5: and downs. So like, we actually first spoke to this
• 3:43
  Speaker 5: company about a year ago, but we started moving through
• 3:48
  Speaker 5: the process with another competitor in our space, and it
• 3:52
  Speaker 5: was basically, do you know what.
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: You need is to to play them off against each other.
• 3:56
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 3:56
  Speaker 5: Well, it ended up basically being close to a done
• 4:00
  Speaker 5: deal back in February. And then as like, I think
• 4:04
  Speaker 5: anyone who sold a company will probably have a similar
• 4:06
  Speaker 5: experience where you can get really close maybe one two,
• 4:10
  Speaker 5: I don't know.
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: However many times people.
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: Needs a signature and then for some reason that part
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: doesn't go ahead.
• 4:15
  Speaker 5: Well, what happened was this company actually ran into some
• 4:18
  Speaker 5: very public legal struggles that just made them it would
• 4:23
  Speaker 5: have been an unethical choice. So we had to completely
• 4:26
  Speaker 5: pull back and go back to the drawing board. And
• 4:30
  Speaker 5: it felt like such a whiplash and such as lap
• 4:32
  Speaker 5: in the face at the time, but it actually ended
• 4:34
  Speaker 5: up being the biggest blessing because we had gone through
• 4:37
  Speaker 5: the process enough to see how you would structure the
• 4:40
  Speaker 5: deal and how you would de risk it, and so
• 4:42
  Speaker 5: we could kind of take a second swing with all
• 4:45
  Speaker 5: these other people and you're.
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: Like, this is now not my first rodeo, and I
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: know what to ask and what to say and how
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: to structure it and get our way.
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: Like yeah, how exciting.
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: Let's backtrack a little bit because for those of you
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: who have haven't heard of Sunroom, it is a brand
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: and a platform that lives and breathes its values. As
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: you can hear, you literally pulled a deal because you're like, dah,
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: that's unethical. And I feel like a lot of people
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: when they're at the point of sale, they're like, oh,
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: that doesn't matter so much, like let's just get it done.
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: With, Like I've overlooked it.
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: There's money on a stable exactly and Sunroom and you
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: have obviously this mission and you're really passionate about I
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: guess sharing real creators and paying them properly and sharing
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: creator wins. So I guess you were achieving what you
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: set out to do. You've like done what people probably
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: thought is not possible at this point. Why did you
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: feel like right now you were like, Okay, well, obviously
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: you've been talking about this for twelve months. I think
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: if someone approached me and said, do you want to
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: sell your company, I'll be like no, I love my company,
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: like that's not on the cards, Like why did you
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: feel like now was a good time to sell?
• 5:53
  Speaker 5: Yeah, So, my co founder Lucy and I started Sunroom
• 5:57
  Speaker 5: with the intent to make women non binary creators as
• 5:59
  Speaker 5: much money as possible on the Internet.
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: And about a.
• 6:03
  Speaker 5: Year ago we were approached by someone in our space
• 6:06
  Speaker 5: to merge. And so it's not like we've been sitting
• 6:09
  Speaker 5: down talking about M and A and talking about selling
• 6:12
  Speaker 5: our company. It was I guess, you know the example
• 6:15
  Speaker 5: that you gave, like someone came to us, but it
• 6:17
  Speaker 5: did get us thinking, okay, interesting, you know, don't know
• 6:21
  Speaker 5: if we necessarily want to merge with this company, but
• 6:24
  Speaker 5: maybe we could sell our company and could we actually
• 6:28
  Speaker 5: help all the women A non binary creators we've attracted
• 6:31
  Speaker 5: make more money somewhere else. And so we started looking
• 6:35
  Speaker 5: at our competitors, but we also started looking at social networks,
• 6:38
  Speaker 5: talent agencies, even porn companies, like different ways our product
• 6:44
  Speaker 5: might be appealing to bigger players.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: And we asked ourselves.
• 6:49
  Speaker 5: Questions, you know, like do they have a more extensive
• 6:51
  Speaker 5: feature set than us, do they have more resources, do
• 6:53
  Speaker 5: they have a bigger team, do they have better brand
• 6:55
  Speaker 5: awareness and fan fix? The company that we've ended up
• 6:59
  Speaker 5: selling to They ticked every one of those boxes. They
• 7:01
  Speaker 5: had a similar ethos to us in terms of how
• 7:04
  Speaker 5: they thought about creators and supporting creators.
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: They built out a product they just would always beat us.
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: It was like, you know, that's what you want, Like
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: in this particular situation.
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: It's kind of like that, if you can't beat them,
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: join them, and we just sell to them. Exactly.
• 7:22
  Speaker 5: It just felt like, oh, if we could land with them,
• 7:26
  Speaker 5: this truly would be an amazing outcome for our creators.
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  Speaker 5: And as we worked through the process, there were many
• 7:32
  Speaker 5: moving parts and many things to think about. Like you've
• 7:35
  Speaker 5: got your investors and you're trying to think about what
• 7:38
  Speaker 5: you know you can return to them. You are kind
• 7:40
  Speaker 5: of thinking about yourself, like I've made financial sacrifices to
• 7:45
  Speaker 5: start a business.
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: One hundred percent, and you've spoken very openly about, you know,
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: not earning much and taking massive pay cuts to like
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: invest literally everything financially and otherwise into Sunroom.
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  Speaker 2: So like these are big decisions.
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  Speaker 3: They're not like, oh should we sell, Oh yeah, it's monday.
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: Let's go. Yeah, and also your staff.
• 8:02
  Speaker 5: But then I think where we were in this unique
• 8:04
  Speaker 5: position because we've got a consumer product and our consumer.
• 8:08
  Speaker 5: Our product is literally helping women make money, and so
• 8:11
  Speaker 5: a lot of our users they're paying their rent through
• 8:14
  Speaker 5: their sunroom earnings, they're paying their car insurance, maybe they're
• 8:17
  Speaker 5: buying homes, maybe they're.
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: Paying for their college tuition.
• 8:21
  Speaker 5: So the decision of who to sell to, like it
• 8:25
  Speaker 5: was mostly weighing on what would be the best outcome
• 8:27
  Speaker 5: for our creators. And it feels so good to be
• 8:30
  Speaker 5: at this point now and to have actually officially like
• 8:33
  Speaker 5: done this deal and to have got them an outcome
• 8:38
  Speaker 5: that actually has the potential to make them way more money.
• 8:41
  Speaker 5: Like once this finally goes everything is kind of transitioned
• 8:44
  Speaker 5: over officially tomorrow.
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: I'm so curious to see the data and to see our.
• 8:50
  Speaker 5: Creators numbers doubled on this platform because they have that
• 8:53
  Speaker 5: much more traffic than us, that much more brand orness.
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's like I truly hand on heart.
• 9:00
  Speaker 5: I would have found it very hard to I've been
• 9:02
  Speaker 5: doing calls with our creators for the past week, like
• 9:05
  Speaker 5: running a very sensitive comms process to bring them in
• 9:08
  Speaker 5: on this before, so it's not a surprise, and I
• 9:11
  Speaker 5: would have found those calls very difficult to have if
• 9:14
  Speaker 5: I couldn't truly basically, yeah, if I couldn't truly say
• 9:18
  Speaker 5: here's all the ways, like this product can actually help
• 9:20
  Speaker 5: you in ways that we couldn't.
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, like you've gone from being small to a medium
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: and now like they actually have the platform of a
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: large business, but the care and respect and the morals
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: of a small business still, Like that's a deal exactly.
• 9:34
  Speaker 5: And like Lucy and I are advising for them for
• 9:38
  Speaker 5: the next year, so we're still there to care for
• 9:40
  Speaker 5: our creators, can be in touch with them, We'll still
• 9:43
  Speaker 5: be behind the scenes, and it's just it's weird.
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: It's a very surreal feeling. But yeah, I feel very
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: happy about it.
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: And I feel like those were probably your biggest priorities
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: when talking about this sale. Were there any other priorities
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: that might come as a surprise that you were like,
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: hold on, I didn't realize I cared so much about this.
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: This now has to be part of the deal.
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: That's a really good question.
• 10:07
  Speaker 5: I think as we went through the process, because we
• 10:10
  Speaker 5: had options, like we had different competitors in our space
• 10:14
  Speaker 5: that were interested in acquiring us. We also went through
• 10:17
  Speaker 5: the process for quite an extensive period with a really
• 10:20
  Speaker 5: big social network and we also were talking to quite
• 10:25
  Speaker 5: a big porn site as well for months, and I think, what.
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: Sort of maje your emails look really good?
• 10:32
  Speaker 5: I think what was a really interesting learning in that
• 10:36
  Speaker 5: is that there are so many different ways you can
• 10:38
  Speaker 5: package your business up and tell the story to appeal
• 10:41
  Speaker 5: to different people, and just a social network we were
• 10:44
  Speaker 5: speaking to were really interested in our technology, in our
• 10:48
  Speaker 5: anti screenshot tech and our team, So the pathway we
• 10:52
  Speaker 5: were going down with them was an aquahier which wouldn't
• 10:57
  Speaker 5: have been as good for our creators at the end
• 11:00
  Speaker 5: of the day, because they were more interested in our
• 11:02
  Speaker 5: team and tech and how we could maybe be a
• 11:04
  Speaker 5: project team within their business and work on monetization for them.
• 11:09
  Speaker 5: And then you've got the porn side of things, which
• 11:12
  Speaker 5: maybe would have appealed to a percentage of our creator.
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: It is not what your creators do as a whole.
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: And I think that that's you know, as someone who's
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: watched Sunroom grow and like followed it like a cult member,
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: I know that, yes, there are people who create that
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: content on your platform, and you champion them as much
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: as everybody else. But there's also just so many women
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: just creating content for women that you're like, hold on,
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: would that turn them off?
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: Then? Exactly?
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: So I feel like that makes sense to me. But
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: that's as somebody who's been following it going. I actually
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: really truly feel like I understand what types of creators
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: you have on this app. And it's not you know,
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: your OnlyFans content creator. You actually have just people creating good,
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: face to face content and making a killing at the
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: same time, and that's really cool.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 12:00
  Speaker 5: So I guess it's like we learnt our creators really
• 12:03
  Speaker 5: were at the forefront of everything that we were doing,
• 12:06
  Speaker 5: and we made this decision for them. And I think
• 12:09
  Speaker 5: as I've taken all these calls over the past week
• 12:11
  Speaker 5: or so, it's been amazing to hear their reaction to
• 12:14
  Speaker 5: it and that they see the opportunity, that they're excited
• 12:16
  Speaker 5: about it, that they're proud of kind of where we're at,
• 12:19
  Speaker 5: and it feels like we made the right choice.
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely.
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: And I feel like you've been so transparent about like
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: your career journey and what that's meant, and you are
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: such a career person, but then recently you became a mum,
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: so you have now a sixteen month old.
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: A fifteen month fifteen as of recording. That's crazy.
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: That is crazy, And I feel like we've gone through
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: this like motherhood journey together on the other side of
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: the world. Like I've been watching you and you've been
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: watching me, and we've been like, yep, same queen. We
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: both have these little buff head boys and it's like
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: the best thing ever. Yeah, but I feel like that
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: really changes the way you manage a business and it
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: changes your priorities. And before your month that's terrifying, Like
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: both you and I were like what have we done?
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: Like we wanted this, but also did we want this?
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: Like is this?
• 13:06
  Speaker 4: You know? Is this it?
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: And I think both of us can agree it's the
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: best thing ever, Like this is the best part of
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: my entire life. But like, now you've sold your business,
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: what are you going to miss the most? Because I
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: feel like that is such a defight it for me,
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: I find being a business owner. Also I'm a mum,
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: but like primarily like on socials and the content I
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: create and I leave and I breathe business and we're
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: what are you going to miss the most?
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: I think what else? I'm not going to miss it?
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: Initially because I'm doing this advising for a year.
• 13:39
  Speaker 5: Yeah, So I will be in on the goss, but
• 13:42
  Speaker 5: I just loved watching a complete unknown person discover our
• 13:47
  Speaker 5: product and make bank Like that was just the most
• 13:50
  Speaker 5: rewarding feeling.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: So I think it's interesting because the little wins.
• 13:55
  Speaker 5: I actually I actually ended up feeling a bit resentful
• 13:59
  Speaker 5: of my of my company in periods because I felt
• 14:01
  Speaker 5: like I was just surviving off little wins over and
• 14:05
  Speaker 5: over and over, and I was like, God, can I
• 14:06
  Speaker 5: just get a big win?
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: I can't just live off crumbs.
• 14:08
  Speaker 5: Yes, But now that I'm sitting here, I actually think
• 14:12
  Speaker 5: I will miss those small wins and just being surprised
• 14:17
  Speaker 5: by someone's potential on the platform. So I'll still get
• 14:20
  Speaker 5: to hear about that for a year, but then I
• 14:22
  Speaker 5: think I will miss it. But I yeah, it's interesting.
• 14:26
  Speaker 5: I don't feel this huge identity shift in this moment
• 14:29
  Speaker 5: because I've never I think my personal brand and career.
• 14:36
  Speaker 5: I've existed in big organizations and in my own organization,
• 14:41
  Speaker 5: so I kind of have like viewed myself as quite fluid.
• 14:44
  Speaker 5: So I don't I don't feel a great sense of
• 14:47
  Speaker 5: emotion over not being a founder anymore.
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: Like what I mean, You're still a founder. You're a
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: founder who's sold me. Yeah, is that like a step up.
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: Like a found No? Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's boot.
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: That's definitely going in the instagram byo. Talk to me
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: about this though, because I feel like when I learned
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: that you were selling sun Room.
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: I'm like, oh my god, that's so sick. And then
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: I was like, what's she going to do?
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: Like I feel like, oh God, motivationally, you and I
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: are on the same page, and like I just need
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: a lot to do, like and whatever I do, I
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: want to throw myself into and I go, I see
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: a lot of that in you.
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, what does the next chapter look like? Where are
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: you going? What are you doing? Because I already know
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: that you're not going to go I've retired. I don't
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: do anything now. I'm just going to be a mom.
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: That's not you.
• 15:39
  Speaker 5: That was the most painful part of how long this
• 15:41
  Speaker 5: process took for me. It was knowing this is going
• 15:44
  Speaker 5: to happen, but I can't wnk about it. I can't
• 15:48
  Speaker 5: publicly begin to explore other things. I need to sit
• 15:51
  Speaker 5: in complete silence and wait.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: That would kill me. Oh my god. I was born
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: to yap, so that just wouldn't work for me. And
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: I'm so impatient.
• 16:00
  Speaker 5: This has been the hardest year for me mentally to
• 16:04
  Speaker 5: trust that it was going to come to this moment
• 16:07
  Speaker 5: and it was going to work out and in a
• 16:10
  Speaker 5: monkst selling my company. Like back in February when that
• 16:12
  Speaker 5: first deal fell through, that was the same month I
• 16:14
  Speaker 5: found out I was pregnant. Oh my god, So I've
• 16:17
  Speaker 5: got an eight month old, I'm pregnant and I'm selling
• 16:20
  Speaker 5: my company and now I'm not do you know what,
• 16:23
  Speaker 5: go hard or go home?
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: And now I'm not selling my company, so like what
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: what do I do?
• 16:28
  Speaker 5: You know?
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: Like, it was really quite scary, Like I cried. I
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: would have cried a lot. I would have been under
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: the table rocking just a little bit. Yeah, I was
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: really scared. Also, I live in the US, so.
• 16:43
  Speaker 5: To be a pregnant woman potentially trying to work out
• 16:46
  Speaker 5: if I'm going to re enter the workforce or what
• 16:49
  Speaker 5: I'm going to do. I just had a lot of
• 16:51
  Speaker 5: thoughts and what's happening with my health cover you know,
• 16:53
  Speaker 5: I'm pregnant.
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: Lots of things figure out, and so I really had to.
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: I did a lot of chat japt hard Pools through
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: that period. Yeah, good good.
• 17:03
  Speaker 6: That shows you where my mind was at you know what,
• 17:06
  Speaker 6: We've all been there, Yeah, but I really just had
• 17:09
  Speaker 6: to trust that, you know, like the universe usually has
• 17:13
  Speaker 6: my back, and I would figure it out and we
• 17:16
  Speaker 6: like definitely got the train back on the tracks.
• 17:17
  Speaker 5: And it was looking pretty positive like throughout this year
• 17:20
  Speaker 5: towards this acquisition, and I knew at the time I
• 17:23
  Speaker 5: would look back at this year and actually be really
• 17:27
  Speaker 5: grateful that I had the time to sit with my
• 17:30
  Speaker 5: thoughts and to reflect. And I thought about consulting, and
• 17:33
  Speaker 5: I thought about starting my own business, and then I realized,
• 17:38
  Speaker 5: I think I want to go and work for a
• 17:41
  Speaker 5: brand again. Like I when I think about my career,
• 17:44
  Speaker 5: I just feel so I have so many fond memories
• 17:49
  Speaker 5: of my Bumble time. I like to kind of take
• 17:52
  Speaker 5: something that I see the potential in and like try
• 17:55
  Speaker 5: to blow it up.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: And so I began to reach.
• 17:58
  Speaker 5: Out to invest that we had at Sunroom that I trusted,
• 18:02
  Speaker 5: and one of our investors is this woman called Michelle
• 18:05
  Speaker 5: Kennedy and she was actually on the board at Bumble.
• 18:07
  Speaker 5: She came up with the name Bumble and she invested
• 18:10
  Speaker 5: in That's so cool, yeah, And she invested in Sunroom.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: So she's kind of like always like been there, just
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: out of the journey. Yeah.
• 18:18
  Speaker 5: And she's the founder and CEO of Peanut, which is
• 18:21
  Speaker 5: a platform, a community platform for moms you can also track.
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: Very popular in the US, but it's taking I guess
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: Australia by storm, like I'm on Peanut, are you?
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: Yes?
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: I like send you screenshots to be like tracking a coincidence,
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: like look at my Peanut messages.
• 18:37
  Speaker 5: Yes, it's an amazing platform. I actually downloaded it when
• 18:40
  Speaker 5: I was pregnant with Alfie because I.
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: Seem like when I was having Harvey, I was like,
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: I don't know what I'm doing.
• 18:45
  Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah, So there's forums, you can track your pregnancy,
• 18:48
  Speaker 5: you can connect with other women. And I didn't know
• 18:50
  Speaker 5: where that conversation was going to go. I was just
• 18:53
  Speaker 5: feeling a bit lost, and so I actually think I asked,
• 18:56
  Speaker 5: you know, can I consult or contract for you?
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: As I'm kind of figuring out where my next move is.
• 19:01
  Speaker 5: Yeah, And she ended up being in LA She's based
• 19:04
  Speaker 5: in the UK, and I went and met her at
• 19:05
  Speaker 5: a hotel and I think we want to talk for
• 19:07
  Speaker 5: thirty minutes and it ended up being two hours.
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: When those happened, because you just feel like you have
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: like a deeper connection and then you're like, wow, this
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: is really cool.
• 19:16
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 19:16
  Speaker 5: And then at the end of that meeting, it kind
• 19:19
  Speaker 5: of went from potentially contracting to I actually think you
• 19:23
  Speaker 5: need to like come and like run this with me,
• 19:26
  Speaker 5: and yeah, I just got goose bumps, which is you.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: I just got signed bumps. Like literally, I'm like, ah, yes,
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: good world.
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: I feel like sometimes we feel like the universe doesn't
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: have our back, and then it's like moments like these,
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: it's like it does.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: It does have your back. I just couldn't believe it.
• 19:42
  Speaker 5: I got tears in my eyes, and I just respect
• 19:45
  Speaker 5: her so much, and I just thought the opportunity to
• 19:48
  Speaker 5: be able to work alongside her on a product I
• 19:51
  Speaker 5: care about this problem and it's something I think about
• 19:54
  Speaker 5: when I'm in the shower. It's how I show up
• 19:56
  Speaker 5: online naturally. Anyway, it just felt like this is a
• 19:59
  Speaker 5: perfect It felt too good to be true. When you
• 20:01
  Speaker 5: told me, I was like, yes, that is perfect. Yeah,
• 20:05
  Speaker 5: I'm still waiting for it to fall apart.
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: To be honest, it's not going to It's not going
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: to fall apart. It's going to fall together.
• 20:11
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 20:12
  Speaker 5: So I'm actually today is actually meant to be my
• 20:15
  Speaker 5: first official day as president of Peanut, and I'm going to.
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: Go, you're president of Peanut, yes, And how many weeks
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: pregnant are you?
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: Thirty?
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: So you're thirty weeks pregnant and got a job in
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: the US as the president of a company.
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: Hmm, okay, pop off, you know what not, biggie.
• 20:32
  Speaker 5: It is a crazy moment, and I was so scared,
• 20:36
  Speaker 5: like navigating that with my pregnancy as well.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: You know, I had so much angst because.
• 20:40
  Speaker 5: I thought, oh, I really want to get in the door,
• 20:41
  Speaker 5: I want to get some runs on the board, and
• 20:43
  Speaker 5: that I do need to go and have my yeah,
• 20:45
  Speaker 5: second child. But yeah, it just feels like, honestly, such
• 20:49
  Speaker 5: a perfect ending and like start of this new chapter
• 20:54
  Speaker 5: for me, and I just honestly couldn't be more excited.
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: In addition to all of that, like that's all so good,
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: but the ethos of Peanut, the user experience of Peanut,
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: the clients on Peanut, Sorry you're on the journey with them,
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: Like what a better person to know them and show
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: them than someone going through the journey and be like, no,
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: this is what I needed, And like I feel like
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: we need more of that.
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's literally so perfect. I'm so excited for you.
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: Thank you. It's very cool.
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: All right, let's take a really quick break because I
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: promised at the start of this episode that I would
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: ask you like career questions that my community had instead
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: talking about your journey.
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: I'm like, well, what else, Michelle, what's talking about me?
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: So we will.
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: I would love to keep talking about you, but our
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: community has questions that I think you are going to
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: answer incredibly well, So.
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: Don't go anywhere, guys.
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: All right, we are back, and like I promised, it
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: is time to put Michelle in the hot seat, not
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: just the interview seat, to give us a little bit
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: of career advice. We have so many career questions that
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: come through literally every single week into our DMS, and
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: I would say that one of our biggest questions that
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: we get from our community is saying they just don't
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: know whether they should make the creer leap, Like that
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: is so scary, Like do I take a step back?
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: Do I apply for a job that I'm not qualified for?
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: Do I, you know, take a step forward and do
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: a little bit of training, Like what if I don't
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: even like it?
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: Like what do I do?
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: So Michelle, what other signs you think mean it's time
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: to change things up and.
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: Take that next step.
• 22:24
  Speaker 5: I honestly think the number one sign is that you're
• 22:26
  Speaker 5: even thinking about it.
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: I agree, no, that you're thinking it, do it? Yes,
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: it's it's definitely that. I think.
• 22:32
  Speaker 5: If you've got those underlying feelings but they're just making
• 22:35
  Speaker 5: you feel uncomfortable so you're ignoring them, that's your trigger
• 22:40
  Speaker 5: to start really like digging into this. And I honestly
• 22:43
  Speaker 5: think a great first step is just talking to people
• 22:45
  Speaker 5: about it, admitting that that's the way you feel. I
• 22:48
  Speaker 5: think it then depends how like what your risk appetite
• 22:51
  Speaker 5: is like, so probably both of us we would just
• 22:55
  Speaker 5: dive head into something without really thinking.
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: Much, honestly, like as much as it's worked out for
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: both of us, Like I think we are both equally
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: chaotic and like people. And I'm going to ask you
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: this in a minute, but people always like, oh my god,
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: you're so like intentional, and I'm like.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: Am I am?
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: I just seemed like a good idea and I didn't
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: take any time to look at the risks.
• 23:16
  Speaker 5: But yes, intention yeah, I think there's a couple of
• 23:20
  Speaker 5: ways you can play it. There's a couple of frameworks
• 23:22
  Speaker 5: that I love. I think if you're the sort of
• 23:23
  Speaker 5: person who needs a bit of structure. So one thing
• 23:26
  Speaker 5: that I actually did before I started sun Room, which
• 23:29
  Speaker 5: was almost out of character for me, is have you hurt?
• 23:32
  Speaker 5: Do you know what an ikey guy is?
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: I have.
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: This course calls your Best Year Yet that I launch
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: at the start of every year, and that is one
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: of my suggested readings, Go find your ikey guys.
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: Yes, exactly.
• 23:43
  Speaker 5: So it's basically a Japanese framework for finding your purpose
• 23:46
  Speaker 5: in life, but it's been transformed and you can apply
• 23:50
  Speaker 5: it to your career.
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: So you really just ask yourself four questions. It's what
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: am I good? What do I love? What does the world? Sorry?
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: What am I good at? Yet? I put the ass
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: at the end of that, I knew what you meant
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: what everybody else knew to what am I good at?
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: What do I love? What does the world need? And
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: what can I be paid for? And I actually looked
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: back at my ikey guy that I did.
• 24:12
  Speaker 5: In twenty twenty when I was founding sun Room, like
• 24:14
  Speaker 5: a year ago, as I was navigating my career as
• 24:18
  Speaker 5: a mum. I came back to it as like it
• 24:20
  Speaker 5: was almost my personal north star and realized I wasn't
• 24:24
  Speaker 5: actually doing any of the things I loved or was
• 24:26
  Speaker 5: good at in my day to day, like I had
• 24:28
  Speaker 5: been taken down this rabbit hole of just you know,
• 24:32
  Speaker 5: the daily grind. And so it's a really good exercise
• 24:34
  Speaker 5: to also come back to if you're feeling it's.
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: A little bit confronting, not gonna lie. I went through
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: it a year ago when I was like, oh, this
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: best year yet. Course has been out for a while
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: and it's really popular. I'm just going to go back
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: through all of the readings and I really read the
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: book and I was like, cool, I need to just
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: get a little bit more on track with what I
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: said I was going to do. But it can be
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: really helpful, Like that's one of my favorite resources.
• 24:57
  Speaker 5: Yeah, so I think that's a good one to start with.
• 25:00
  Speaker 5: Then Tim Ferriss actually has a line of questioning in
• 25:04
  Speaker 5: his book The Four Hour Work Week, So I think
• 25:07
  Speaker 5: this is a little bit more tactical. So the first
• 25:10
  Speaker 5: thing that you do is about defining your fears. So
• 25:12
  Speaker 5: you ask yourself a whole bunch of what if questions,
• 25:16
  Speaker 5: and it's like, what if you know the worst outcome,
• 25:18
  Speaker 5: what if my business fails and I run out of money.
• 25:20
  Speaker 5: What if my business fails and I lose my visa
• 25:22
  Speaker 5: and I have to leave the US And you just
• 25:24
  Speaker 5: get it all.
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: Down on paper.
• 25:26
  Speaker 5: And then part two of that is preventative action, Like, Okay,
• 25:30
  Speaker 5: here's all the things I'm really scared of, But what
• 25:33
  Speaker 5: is actually the worst thing that's going to happen. Okay,
• 25:35
  Speaker 5: my business fails and I run out of money, maybe
• 25:38
  Speaker 5: I've saved three months salary and that's enough for me
• 25:41
  Speaker 5: to re enter the world.
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: I can re enter the workforce. Ye I always have
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: that in the back of my head. I'm like, do
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: you know what I make a mean coffee? I'd be
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: a sick barista. I can go get a job in
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: a cafe any day, if the week, yep, I'll be fine.
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Can't be that deep.
• 25:55
  Speaker 5: Exactly, And like, okay, I need to leave the country.
• 25:58
  Speaker 5: Maybe I have to go live with my parents. Are
• 26:00
  Speaker 5: a bit I think whenever you're taking some risk, there
• 26:03
  Speaker 5: is a little bit of an element of needing to
• 26:05
  Speaker 5: swallow your pride. And you might think everyone's watching you fail.
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: They're not. Everyone's too absorbed with themselves, Like it isn't
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: that big a deal. Really.
• 26:15
  Speaker 5: Even when I left banking and started working at Bumble,
• 26:19
  Speaker 5: I'd never heard of the company. It wasn't established in Australia.
• 26:21
  Speaker 5: I had no idea if they were even going to
• 26:23
  Speaker 5: pay me. I quit my job, worked in retail, got
• 26:26
  Speaker 5: my old job back at a surf store when I
• 26:28
  Speaker 5: was twenty five, and moved back in with my parents,
• 26:31
  Speaker 5: and there was just this period of Okay, I just
• 26:33
  Speaker 5: need to do this until I figure out if this
• 26:35
  Speaker 5: Bumble is even a legitimate company.
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: That's what we need to talk about more as well,
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: because I think that they're the non shiny things that
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: you did where people are like, oh, and I feel
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: like sometimes and this is not I hope not disrespectful,
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: but sometimes we can put your career on a silver
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: platter and be like, oh my god, look at what
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: she did at Bumble and then she's gone on to
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: build her own business and that's insane. But like, also,
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: look at the sacrifice you made, Like you went boots
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: and all into this opportunity, not even knowing if they
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: would pay you, but you're like really excited about it,
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: And I'm going to swallow my pride and go get
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: my job back at my old retail surf store, but like,
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: no one's talking about that party. But that's the sacrifice
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: you make to kind of slingshot yourself forward. But then
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: when people start talking about it, they just they just
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: see the shiny name and they see obviously what you've done,
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: and that's incredible. But like it actually takes two parts,
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: Like you have to kind of like be willing to
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: spoiler your pride and be willing to take a step back,
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: because if you're not, the opportunities aren't just sitting there
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: on a silver platter. They don't look like they're on
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: a silver platter until you're looking at them retrospectively.
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, one hundred percent.
• 27:40
  Speaker 5: I so so believe that, Okay, And then the third
• 27:43
  Speaker 5: part of this is you ask yourself, what would part
• 27:47
  Speaker 5: what could partial success look like if I did this?
• 27:50
  Speaker 5: And I love that question because this kind of segus
• 27:52
  Speaker 5: nicely off your point. I think sometimes we're focused on
• 27:55
  Speaker 5: the huge end goal, like not knocking it out of
• 27:59
  Speaker 5: the park, making load of money, reaching X downloads, or
• 28:02
  Speaker 5: all these sorts of things.
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: But to actually ask yourself what would partial success look like?
• 28:07
  Speaker 5: I think it gets you into the right framework, in
• 28:10
  Speaker 5: the right head space of realizing that there is actually
• 28:12
  Speaker 5: no failure. If you take a swing and miss, you've
• 28:16
  Speaker 5: still learnt so much. You've still inflated your own value
• 28:19
  Speaker 5: as an individual. You can command more wherever you go next.
• 28:23
  Speaker 5: You can bring unique experiences you didn't have before. So
• 28:25
  Speaker 5: I really like the partial success question and then the
• 28:29
  Speaker 5: last one, and this is this is good. It is
• 28:32
  Speaker 5: what would your life look like if there was no
• 28:36
  Speaker 5: action taken three months, six months, twelve months from now,
• 28:40
  Speaker 5: And you break it down into emotional, physical, and financial,
• 28:44
  Speaker 5: So maybe it's like, Okay, in three months, I'm actually
• 28:46
  Speaker 5: in a toxic work environment. Emotionally, I'm going to be
• 28:50
  Speaker 5: way worse off than I'm even feeling now. Like physically,
• 28:54
  Speaker 5: maybe I'm so burnt out and like overrun and over
• 28:57
  Speaker 5: this that I'm going to be living in unhealthy lifestyle
• 29:00
  Speaker 5: because I have no time to get out of the
• 29:02
  Speaker 5: house or you know, I'm just uber eating every night,
• 29:05
  Speaker 5: which I got to do anyway, But I.
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: Want you feel attacked on my own podcast. But you know,
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: just getting into those sometimes we do what we've got
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: to do.
• 29:15
  Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly, and seasons there are total seasons as well,
• 29:18
  Speaker 5: But just asking yourself those questions, I think if you're
• 29:20
  Speaker 5: the sort of person who really needs to see it
• 29:22
  Speaker 5: on a page and needs a bit more of a push.
• 29:25
  Speaker 5: Those are two things that I think you can do
• 29:27
  Speaker 5: to identify if you know you actually really need to
• 29:30
  Speaker 5: make a jump.
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I wanted to ask you about I guess this
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: like career strategy that if we look at your career,
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: looks like you are so intentional. You're like, yep, and
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: I'm going to go to bumble and I'm going to
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: do this and I'm going to smash it out of
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: the park. And that's so cool and so inspiring. But
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: I feel like every single time you've pivoted, and every
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: single time you've moved to a different role or taken
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: on becoming a founder, you've obviously added massive skills to
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: your portfolio, which, as you said before, even if it
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: doesn't work out, you've got another feather in your hat
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: that you can command, more pay for, more respect, for
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: a better job. Like you can do so much with it.
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: But what advice would you give to someone who's like,
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: I want to be strategic too, because is there all
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: that strategy or is it following your passion and following
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: you know what you think is really exciting and what
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: lights you up because I feel like so many times,
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: especially if you are in a salary payg job and
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: you're like, Okay, cool, I've got this really consistent income coming,
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: it's a massive risk to leave. Especially honestly, as we
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: get to be older, our responsibilities are more. We might
• 30:37
  Speaker 3: have a partner, we might have rent on a more
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: expensive place, we might have a mortgage, we might have kids,
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: and that stuff is not twenty five year old decisions, right, Yeah.
• 30:47
  Speaker 5: As you were speaking, I was thinking, yeah, I don't
• 30:50
  Speaker 5: have a strategy, but it actually is a strategy.
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: That's the strategy.
• 30:54
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I fully just I really trust my intuition, and
• 30:59
  Speaker 5: I know I questioned myself on why I'm making the
• 31:02
  Speaker 5: choice that I'm making. So for example, this decision to
• 31:05
  Speaker 5: go to Peanut, one of the companies that was going
• 31:09
  Speaker 5: to acquire us ended up offering Lucy and I these packages,
• 31:13
  Speaker 5: and it was I feel kind of uncomfortable talking about this,
• 31:17
  Speaker 5: but it's a Shoes on the Money podcast.
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: I think we also don't have to because like at
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: the end of the day, and I said this before
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: you came on the podcast, like you don't have to
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: disclose anything. It's nobody's business, Like if you sold for
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: one hundred dollars or one hundred million dollars, it actually
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: doesn't matter because it doesn't impact people. What impacts people
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: is strategy and decision making. And wow, she had the
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: balls to do that, because do you know what if
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: you sold for one hundred dollars and you guys had
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: decided that that was the best thing for your community,
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: for your business, and for yourselves, that's a sleigh same
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: thing is true at one hundred million dollars.
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: People are just pervy and want.
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: To know how rich you got from it, you know, like,
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: and that's actually none of their business. And I feel
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: like I do backtracking. I do on Mondays every single
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: week of money diary, and a lot of people has
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: said to me, Vitraya, why don't you do a money diary?
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: And it's like, well, everyone on my show has been
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: gifted anonymity, Like they come on my show, they tell
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: me how much they earn, how much they spend, how
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: much they earn, how much they owe, and they don't
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: have a name to that, so there's no traceable. Yeah,
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: if I start coming out and disclosing my income, my salary,
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: what I pay myself, how I pay myself what my
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: business is valued at God, that's going to be front
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: page of the daily mail. And also the people who
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: care aren't the people who benefit from it. The people
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: who benefit from that conversation. They're not taking how much
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: I earned, they're taking, Oh, what strategy did you have?
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: How did you feel? Like, like Michelle, how do you
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: back yourself? So I don't want you to be uncomfortable
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: or answer anything that you're like, oh, I don't know,
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: because we can admit all of that stuff. But it's
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: more around like the strategy and the game and what
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: that looks like, because like, yeah, nobody's going to build
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: another sun room because it's already in existence, and if
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: they do, they're already three, probably ten steps behind.
• 32:59
  Speaker 5: You know.
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: No, I think this is good and like it does
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: kind of get to the strategy.
• 33:03
  Speaker 5: So one of these offers was like an end of
• 33:07
  Speaker 5: your career type salary I thought I would get, Like
• 33:10
  Speaker 5: I just kind of.
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: Was like when I sink Dog. Yeah, I was like.
• 33:14
  Speaker 5: Shit, And I went through the process because I also
• 33:20
  Speaker 5: had I was also really curious to see how am
• 33:23
  Speaker 5: I valued in a big place like this after I've
• 33:27
  Speaker 5: done all this. I'd always believed that it didn't really
• 33:30
  Speaker 5: matter what outcome I got with sun Room, because maybe
• 33:33
  Speaker 5: I could go to one of these big companies and
• 33:34
  Speaker 5: I could command a lot. So I was doing it
• 33:37
  Speaker 5: as a bit of a challenge to myself. I really
• 33:39
  Speaker 5: wanted to see how would I be leveled, what would
• 33:42
  Speaker 5: my package look like? And I wasn't really going through
• 33:46
  Speaker 5: the process with the intent to take the role. Yeah totally,
• 33:49
  Speaker 5: because I was already listening to my heart. Would you
• 33:51
  Speaker 5: go shopping? It's the window shopping.
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 33:54
  Speaker 5: But then when I got it, I was like, oh shit,
• 33:57
  Speaker 5: like this is very very hard, Like how do you
• 34:00
  Speaker 5: not take this? And I had to really spend some
• 34:05
  Speaker 5: time thinking about how it would feel to show up
• 34:08
  Speaker 5: in you know, I kind of had pe nut and
• 34:10
  Speaker 5: then I had this other offer, and I was trying
• 34:13
  Speaker 5: to put myself in the position of showing up at
• 34:14
  Speaker 5: these workplaces every day and working on the problem and
• 34:18
  Speaker 5: about where my life is at now. And I'm the
• 34:21
  Speaker 5: kind of person where if I can't identify with the
• 34:24
  Speaker 5: problem or the product, if I can identify with the
• 34:27
  Speaker 5: problem and the product, it just like all clicks and
• 34:31
  Speaker 5: it feels really easy, and it's like my flow state
• 34:34
  Speaker 5: and everything just comes and it feels amazing. And that's
• 34:42
  Speaker 5: kind of how I was feeling about the peanut thing.
• 34:45
  Speaker 5: But pe nut is like an amazing opportunity, but also
• 34:50
  Speaker 5: still startup vibes.
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: And I've been working in startups for ten years now,
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: and I found some room very hard. It was very relentless.
• 35:00
  Speaker 5: Was a grind the entire way through, And so there
• 35:03
  Speaker 5: was a part of me that's like, do I need
• 35:05
  Speaker 5: a break? I'm a Do I take the easier job
• 35:08
  Speaker 5: that's going to pay me so well?
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: I could make bank, But maybe I wouldn't be that happy.
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: Yes, and I'd be a cog in the wheel.
• 35:17
  Speaker 5: Respectfully, I would feel like I'm a cog in the wheel,
• 35:22
  Speaker 5: and maybe if I wanted to do something, I'd need
• 35:24
  Speaker 5: to ask two people's permission before I'm allowed to do it,
• 35:27
  Speaker 5: and maybe they're going to mandate that I.
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: And don't get me wrong, like that's not a bad thing,
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: but I think also, once you've been a founder of
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: your own business, it is very hard, Yeah, to take
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: that step back where you aren't like, but I'm happy
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: to take accountability for this project, Like I don't need
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: other people sign off.
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that would be really challenging. For me as well.
• 35:46
  Speaker 5: I kind of felt like if I was real, if
• 35:48
  Speaker 5: I was going to work in an in someone else's
• 35:50
  Speaker 5: organization again, this Peenut opportunity just felt.
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: Like bang of.
• 35:57
  Speaker 4: Back.
• 35:58
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I would still have that like owner mindset or
• 36:02
  Speaker 5: a bit of like it's not like I need to
• 36:04
  Speaker 5: be like in power or anything.
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: I kind of articulate it.
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: But a decision making process is being able.
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: To have an idea and just start alementation. Yeah.
• 36:13
  Speaker 5: Yeah, Like I don't want to I'm not doing a proposal.
• 36:16
  Speaker 5: I'm not going to ask three people's permission.
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: I need to say, you can't sit on this for
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: three months and like get me three different quotes and
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: then we can maybe consider it, and then we don't
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: have capacity. Sorry, Michelle, Yes exactly. No, that's not how
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: my brain works.
• 36:28
  Speaker 5: Like I just need to be able to shoot my
• 36:29
  Speaker 5: shot at this and like if it fails, I won't
• 36:32
  Speaker 5: do it again.
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: No issues.
• 36:33
  Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, Like I so I really went inward
• 36:38
  Speaker 5: and I really just trusted my gut and my instincts
• 36:42
  Speaker 5: and I just to be honest. Even when I saw
• 36:44
  Speaker 5: the huge offer, it was more like, well I already
• 36:48
  Speaker 5: knew I'm not going to take it. But I wish
• 36:50
  Speaker 5: I didn't know what it was that yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 36:52
  Speaker 5: like I already know I'm going to go with this
• 36:54
  Speaker 5: other one, but like now I'll.
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: Know forever that I know that power move. Yeah.
• 37:01
  Speaker 5: But I also do think it was like I was
• 37:04
  Speaker 5: kind of only doing it to build confidence anyway. And
• 37:08
  Speaker 5: this is why taking I find taking risks easier is
• 37:11
  Speaker 5: because I just reinforced an assumption that I had, which
• 37:15
  Speaker 5: is like, I'll probably always be able to go and
• 37:17
  Speaker 5: get that. Yeah, So I want to follow my heart
• 37:20
  Speaker 5: and go where I see there's more long term potential
• 37:23
  Speaker 5: whilst I'm still.
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: Really right because there are probably a lot of people
• 37:27
  Speaker 3: in my community that have these offers. And it's kind
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: of like also similar in a way to staying where
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: you're at. You're like, Okay, maybe you've reached that one
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: hundred thousand dollars salary, and you're like, but I also
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: know that next year that's going to be one hundred
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: and ten, and then you know a few years later,
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: I might be on one twenty and like that feels
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: really safe and that's like a very good amount of money.
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: Or do I pivot and go to a different industry
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: and I don't know what that's going to pay or
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: I don't know how sustainable that is, And you know
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: you haven't got enough experience to know what that career
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: trajectory looks like. You've played very heavily, I would say,
• 38:02
  Speaker 3: in the tech space over your career. And this is
• 38:07
  Speaker 3: an industry that we've been talking a lot about on
• 38:09
  Speaker 3: our podcast because women can make bank and I think
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: that so many women are scared of tech because they're like, oh,
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: I'm not really a techy person, like I don't get it.
• 38:20
  Speaker 3: But from an investment and then also a career angle,
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: we've talked about this idea of like high risk, high reward,
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: and lots of people that are listening to the show
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: we are high risk people because we want the reward.
• 38:31
  Speaker 3: Like you don't listen to a show like She's on
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: the Money because you don't want to change your life,
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: be better at money, be better at finance, have a
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: better career, have a better life. Like the community that
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: I have built, they listen to this content because they're
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: like I want to do better for myself, Like I
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: want to upgrade, like I want to put myself in
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: the driver's seat. What do you think are the key
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: things that made you so successful in tech, both as
• 38:53
  Speaker 3: an employee but then now as a startup founder.
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: That has exited.
• 39:00
  Speaker 5: Interesting question because it really was Bumble that was sort
• 39:04
  Speaker 5: of this break through moment in my career. And I
• 39:08
  Speaker 5: think what helped me get ahead at Bumble was I
• 39:12
  Speaker 5: really gave a shit. A lot of people don't care
• 39:16
  Speaker 5: about their jobs, and it's fine if it's fine if
• 39:18
  Speaker 5: you don't care about your job.
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: There are also certain roles where you do just.
• 39:22
  Speaker 5: Need someone to clock in at nine, clock out at five,
• 39:26
  Speaker 5: and maybe it doesn't need to be their passion.
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: They've got other passions in life, you know, And there
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: are lots of jobs that serve that purpose.
• 39:34
  Speaker 5: Yeah, But for me, that job at Bumble did become
• 39:38
  Speaker 5: my purpose, my life, my identity, and so I think
• 39:41
  Speaker 5: I stood out in that role within the company because
• 39:45
  Speaker 5: I really lived and breathed it and I went above
• 39:47
  Speaker 5: and beyond, and I do as I've now gone on.
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: To employ people.
• 39:51
  Speaker 5: I actually do think it's pretty easy to stand out
• 39:54
  Speaker 5: as a bit of an all start in an organization
• 39:56
  Speaker 5: because there's just so many really little things people aren't
• 39:59
  Speaker 5: willing to do, Like, for example, at the end of
• 40:01
  Speaker 5: the day, before you shut your laptop and walk out
• 40:03
  Speaker 5: the door actually announcing, Hey, I'm probably going to wrap
• 40:07
  Speaker 5: up soon. Is there anything I can help you with?
• 40:10
  Speaker 5: That is just simply kind of caring, asking if anyone
• 40:14
  Speaker 5: needs a hand, showing that you're a team player, And
• 40:17
  Speaker 5: most of the time no one will say anything anyway.
• 40:19
  Speaker 3: They'll be like, oh, no, no thanks though hashell like
• 40:22
  Speaker 3: have a good night, you go home, like, oh my god,
• 40:24
  Speaker 3: it's already five thirty, Like, yeah, that's the conversation.
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's just little things that I think can make you.
• 40:31
  Speaker 5: Stand out, or like the way you celebrate other people
• 40:34
  Speaker 5: in the team, or if you're a leader, exposing members
• 40:38
  Speaker 5: of your own team in public slack channels and calling
• 40:41
  Speaker 5: out their work.
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: There's just, yeah, so many little things that I think.
• 40:47
  Speaker 5: It also positions you as a leader, even if you're
• 40:49
  Speaker 5: doing those things and you're not one, which I think
• 40:52
  Speaker 5: then can get eyes on you for promotional opportunities, and
• 40:56
  Speaker 5: it's kind of the way you carry yourself. So I
• 40:59
  Speaker 5: do I think there's an element of like simplicity and
• 41:03
  Speaker 5: just doing things like that to your point as well
• 41:05
  Speaker 5: about you know, maybe being a bit intimidated by the tech.
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: Industry because it's scary.
• 41:10
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it's like, I'm not really I wouldn't say I
• 41:13
  Speaker 5: necessarily fit a tech go you.
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: Grew a tech business, you sold a tech business. I
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: think you.
• 41:19
  Speaker 3: I think you're very well educated in this space.
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: It's weird, though, because.
• 41:23
  Speaker 5: I would never have put that if someone told me
• 41:25
  Speaker 5: I was going to do that when I was in
• 41:26
  Speaker 5: year twelve, I'd be.
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: Like, oh no, no, working in finance ball.
• 41:31
  Speaker 5: But I also think tech has so many different ways
• 41:35
  Speaker 5: to get involved in it without needing to be an engineer.
• 41:38
  Speaker 5: Like you can be a product designer, you could be
• 41:40
  Speaker 5: a project manager, you could be marketing, you could be
• 41:44
  Speaker 5: in social content. There are so many different doorways. Granted,
• 41:49
  Speaker 5: if you do want to go on and found a
• 41:51
  Speaker 5: tech company, it's like you will need to find an engineer.
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: Oh, you're going to have to play in that space, yes,
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: but you.
• 41:57
  Speaker 5: Can then attract engineers if you've worked alongside them previously,
• 42:01
  Speaker 5: so that can really help as an avenue in But
• 42:04
  Speaker 5: I think one of the coolest things about tech is
• 42:07
  Speaker 5: they are very fast, aggressively wired, growth type environments, and
• 42:14
  Speaker 5: I feel like if you can get involved in a
• 42:17
  Speaker 5: startup early, like one of the first ten employees, it
• 42:22
  Speaker 5: just has the opportunity to really catapult your career because
• 42:25
  Speaker 5: you will have to act like an owner whether you
• 42:28
  Speaker 5: want to or not. You will have to develop an
• 42:30
  Speaker 5: appetite for risk, You will have to get comfortable with
• 42:34
  Speaker 5: being agile. Like, there are just loads of skills that
• 42:37
  Speaker 5: you have to build that I think you can make
• 42:40
  Speaker 5: you really well rounded and appealing to other environments. And
• 42:43
  Speaker 5: it's a very unique experience and it doesn't need to
• 42:48
  Speaker 5: make you like, I'm not necessarily saying you need to
• 42:51
  Speaker 5: be a Unicorn startup like the Bumble experience, but I
• 42:56
  Speaker 5: think you can learn those skills in any startup environment.
• 43:00
  Speaker 5: To be honest, they're also kind of toxic.
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: But it's like.
• 43:05
  Speaker 3: Right now, what I'm hearing from this conversation as well
• 43:10
  Speaker 3: is something that I feel like I need to point
• 43:13
  Speaker 3: out because as women, we always underestimate our ability. We
• 43:16
  Speaker 3: always like go, oh, maybe I need to go back
• 43:18
  Speaker 3: to university, or we say things like, oh, I'm not
• 43:21
  Speaker 3: smart enough for that, or I haven't got experience in that.
• 43:24
  Speaker 3: All the things that you just said make you this
• 43:27
  Speaker 3: like unicorn employee, like being on time, caring about your job,
• 43:33
  Speaker 3: going above and beyond. None of that actually involves intelligence.
• 43:36
  Speaker 3: Now they all involve you just giving a shit and
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: stepping up. And I think that, you know, it's twenty
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: twenty five, but so many people aren't willing to step
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: up now, Like, and that's probably a little bit controversial
• 43:50
  Speaker 3: to say, but I see it on socials all the time,
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: like I see it online, and I see it in
• 43:55
  Speaker 3: you know, individuals. I'm you know, always hiring at the moment,
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: or it feels like I'm always hiring and like our
• 44:01
  Speaker 3: team is growing, and you just see it even in interviews.
• 44:03
  Speaker 3: You go, you don't give two shits, Like you just
• 44:05
  Speaker 3: want to clock in at nine am, clock out at
• 44:07
  Speaker 3: five pm, and like that's actually irrespective of whether the
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: job requires that. That's not the type of person I
• 44:13
  Speaker 3: want to surround myself with. And when you know, even
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: individual step back and you think about what type of
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: people do you want to surround yourself with. I want
• 44:21
  Speaker 3: a team that champions each other. I want a team
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: that says, oh, hey, did anybody need a hand before
• 44:26
  Speaker 3: the end.
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: Of the day. Like it's not the big things.
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: It's not the degrees, it's not the you know, how
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: much you spent on college, it's not any of that.
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: It's actually about being a good bloody human. Yeah, it's
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: an attitude and that's hard. Now, Yeah, I totally agree.
• 44:42
  Speaker 5: I have found the hiring I got asked a question
• 44:45
  Speaker 5: last night and it's like, what would go down in
• 44:46
  Speaker 5: sun room law? And I was thinking, yes, please, Well,
• 44:50
  Speaker 5: I was thinking it's just all the personnel stuff where
• 44:55
  Speaker 5: Lucy and I would look at each other and be like,
• 44:56
  Speaker 5: what the hell was that? Like, you can get really blindsided.
• 45:01
  Speaker 5: It's really hard to find good people. And that's why
• 45:04
  Speaker 5: I think once you've got them, like we had some
• 45:07
  Speaker 5: amazing employees and like we looked after them so well,
• 45:11
  Speaker 5: would do anything to retain them and just feel so
• 45:15
  Speaker 5: like indebted to them, and like that's how.
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: I feel about my current team, and I'm obsessed with them.
• 45:20
  Speaker 3: Please nobody rock the boat. Yeah all right, So I
• 45:23
  Speaker 3: know I'm running out of time with you very quickly.
• 45:25
  Speaker 3: So for anyone who's listening, who's maybe scared of making
• 45:29
  Speaker 3: a really big career change, what would you say to
• 45:32
  Speaker 3: them right now? We've obviously talked about a lot, but like,
• 45:34
  Speaker 3: what would you just direct advice say?
• 45:36
  Speaker 5: I said this to myself when I took the job
• 45:39
  Speaker 5: at Bumble, and I've said it to myself with like
• 45:41
  Speaker 5: every step I've taken sins and it's so simple and basic,
• 45:46
  Speaker 5: and it's just better to try and fail. Better to
• 45:48
  Speaker 5: try and fail than to have never tried it all.
• 45:51
  Speaker 5: And I just that's kind of like my life motto.
• 45:54
  Speaker 5: And so I really don't think there's even now selling
• 45:57
  Speaker 5: this company. I don't think there's such thing as failure
• 46:02
  Speaker 5: at all, because you do learn so much and I've
• 46:06
  Speaker 5: kind of just proven through this process you can take
• 46:08
  Speaker 5: it and then command way more where you go next.
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: So I just I don't know, it's not that deep,
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: but it's not that deep. Just do it. If it
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: doesn't work out, you can go back to your old job.
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: Just don't burn bridges, do like.
• 46:20
  Speaker 5: The icky guy and use that framework, because I think
• 46:23
  Speaker 5: it'll just reinforce that you're probably ready.
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I just think like better to try and
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: fail than to have never tried at all.
• 46:30
  Speaker 3: Love love, Well, Unfortunately, Michelle, that is all we have
• 46:34
  Speaker 3: time for today. I know you are a very busy woman,
• 46:36
  Speaker 3: so thank you so much for joining us and for
• 46:38
  Speaker 3: sharing just so.
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: Much with us.
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: I feel like we did get a little bit pervy.
• 46:42
  Speaker 3: We learned about your new job to sale of your business.
• 46:44
  Speaker 3: But like most importantly, we learnt just do it, just
• 46:48
  Speaker 3: rip the mandate off. It's not that deep and that
• 46:51
  Speaker 3: sounds really silly, but I promise looking back, it's honestly
• 46:54
  Speaker 3: so much more about the journey than the actual destination,
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: because how many times do you get to the destination
• 46:59
  Speaker 3: then you're like saying it, I'm selling it.
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: And we're going to do it again exactly. Thanks for
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: having me, of course.
• 47:05
  Speaker 3: And guys, if you loved this episode as much as
• 47:08
  Speaker 3: I have loved recording it for you, go and follow
• 47:10
  Speaker 3: Michelle to keep up with everything she's working on. I'm
• 47:12
  Speaker 3: going to make sure that all of her links are
• 47:14
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