Latest / Founder F**K ups / Thousands On Meta Ads, Then The Leads Ghosted Him | Maurizio Rosini, My Masterman
Transcript
- Ben Bagg: Maurizio built something most men would tell you they need and almost none will go looking for. A men's circle. A room where men actually say what's going on. So he did what most founders do when they believe in the thing. He switched on the ads. And it worked. Sort of. The leads came in, men messaged, he replied, and then they went quiet. Again and again. He poured his energy and his budget into getting that attention and sort of skipped the part where a cold stranger sort of actually understands what he's being invited into. He was asking men to sign up for a room they couldn't picture. Right? Today we get into what that cost him, why being convinced yourself is never enough, and how he rebuilt it so men understand first and get asked second. Maurizio Welcome to Founder Fuck Ups. Maurizio Rosini: Good powerful Monday morning, dear Ben. And thank you. Thank you for the detailed, quite accurate introduction. Ben Bagg: Yeah. Maurizio Rosini: And I wanna say thank you. Thank you. Because of the, you know, especially even this this podcast and I've been attending your very cool events in Kuala Lumpur gathering founders. And Ben Bagg: Hmm. Maurizio Rosini: we are more aligned than what you think when it comes in terms of messaging. Because the work you are doing is to break the stigma about making mistakes. Ben Bagg: Hm. Yeah. Maurizio Rosini: And I guess you're British, I'm Italian, we live in amazing, super amazing Malaysia. But when I attend your events, and the same for the guys joining the main circle, it's very international, right? So it doesn't matter Ben Bagg: Yeah. Maurizio Rosini: if you're British, Italian from Zimbabwe or Australia or Alaska. Through the education we all receive in our in our household and especially through school and then eventually university, is that Making mistakes. Failing is bad. So, what we do in general, men and women, we are very good on pretending and trying to perform and being very much ashamed to admit that mistakes instead of seeing as Ben Bagg: Yeah. Maurizio Rosini: a feedback, right? So when it comes to men, and that's why that's the niche that I chose. When it comes to men, and you as a man, as a fellow brother, you know very well, the the narrative is even stronger, you know, because we are men, we are the one that everyone has expectation, like maybe. Ben Bagg: Yeah. Maurizio Rosini: In a family set environment, in the business, or between, you know, just friends. So think about how hard it is for a man, not only in business as a founder, but in his own private life, you know, in his own relationships and admitting or having the courage to share the fucked up. Ben Bagg: Yeah. Maurizio Rosini: So we are very much aligned, and so keep going with the work, man. You're doing great. Ben Bagg: Thank you very much. time out guys. Lots of you are watching, lots of you are learning from the founder fuckups that we've all gone through, but please do me one little teeny favour and subscribe so that we can keep growing the channel and get more great founders on. Back to the episode. Good to yeah I I appreciate the words of encouragement. So I mean you kind of started to allude to it, but my first question is like why men's circles? What drew you to like what's what did you see in yourself that wanted to go, look, let's bring men together, let's talk about fuck ups, let's talk about all this stuff. what what brought you to that? Maurizio Rosini: Whoa, well, the story can be okay. It took me about probably 30 years to realize that, but in a in I give you because I know we got short time, so just a kind of a flow. When I was 17 years of age, born and raised in Italy, I always Ben Bagg: Yeah. Maurizio Rosini: felt in here that I had something to share very powerfully in the word. I have no fucking idea what was that, but the the knowing. Very powerful, no idea. Ben Bagg: Yeah. Maurizio Rosini: And it took me maybe 30 years of life of incredible roller coasters, literally co-creating heavens financially, Ben Bagg: Yeah. Maurizio Rosini: success. I was famous, and then dive deep into the darkness of addiction, of being Ben Bagg: Yeah. Maurizio Rosini: lost, and so on and so forth. I always saw one thing, as I said, born and raised in Italy. I moved in 19 to the UK, then I lived in Japan, UK, US, Colombia, Italy, and now here. But I saw one pattern in men. Doesn't matter if you're black, white, yellow, whatever you believe. We all are so terrorized to share what's going on. Ben Bagg: Mm-hmm. Maurizio Rosini: We are so good and people pleasing, even the most alpha male is we are very good at people pleasing because Ben Bagg: Okay. Maurizio Rosini: we are so afraid to be rejected by others. So we spend our own life try to perform, overachieve. But we 99.9% Ben Bagg: Yeah. Maurizio Rosini: of the the time, and I know all the founders listen to me, they will hear resonate, we do this from a space of fear of keep. Trying to figure it out how can I be enough. And so doing this, we do create empires, and which is great. But then we Ben Bagg: Mm. Maurizio Rosini: arrive to a certain stage in life, each one of us, more silently or more openly, we realize that, wow, I've been creating an empire, but who am I? I've been spending my lifetime and boys and girls, we got only one, probably you forget about. We spend all this opportunity has been given to us so beautiful called life. And then we realize we spend all the life trying to impress everybody, simply because Ben Bagg: Yeah. Maurizio Rosini: we are so afraid to be truly seen and heard as we are. So, Ben Bagg: Yeah. Maurizio Rosini: according to this, a man's circle is not just sitting on a circle, a bunch of guys and share, we are doing Ben Bagg: Yeah. Maurizio Rosini: inner work, we go back home, we post it on Facebook. No. And then circle, it's literally a sacred space, like like our ancestors that were used to do four, five thousand years ago, where men sit. And they are present with themselves. Instead of keep grinding, they slow down and they recognize that you don't need to fix somebody else to have a great life. You don't need to Ben Bagg: Yeah. Maurizio Rosini: fix everything around you. You gotta have the courage, and that is the most manly thing that a man can do in business and in his private life, to recognize what he's been avoiding for all this time. Ben Bagg: How Maurizio Rosini: So we sit on a circle, there is a there is a reason because of that. In a s on a circle, number one, you belong. But you don't hide because you are shoulder to shoulder. I see you, you see me. I cannot hide. Number two, you honor, recognize your own journey, but you cannot forget that on your side you have fellow men that, as you, are going through the same. So Ben Bagg: Yeah. Maurizio Rosini: the recognition that number one, you need to honor your life and to live the most highest, fulfilling, successful life, the only way out is in. The point is nobody taught us because since young age, Again, it doesn't matter where you were born, and the household, the religion, whatever, is your story. They told Ben Bagg: Yeah. Maurizio Rosini: you you are a man, and you are lesser of a man if you show what's going on in your inner world. So, as a young boy is full of testosterone and energy, says, Okay, that's the way. So, we are very good on creating this armor. But that armor Ben Bagg: Yeah. Maurizio Rosini: that is protecting us to be truly seen and heard, as I said at the beginning of our conversation. Creates a distance from who we are and what we showcase to the world until we Ben Bagg: Yeah. Maurizio Rosini: get to a point that we are very good at suppressing the pain and the judgment and the shame and the guilt Ben Bagg: Yeah. Maurizio Rosini: with addiction. Not necessarily drugs Ben Bagg: So Maurizio Rosini: and sex and gambling and alcohol, addiction to validation, addiction to what is enough. Ben Bagg: When you when you were starting w sorry, when you were starting this business in this circle, like what you're describing here is, you know, men we put on our armor and it becomes let's say it becomes some form of defence mechanism to actually being perhaps true or opening up or or sharing or like dealing with shit properly. And and I know that our the problem we're talk we're gonna talk about today is like how you did like lead generation and we're figuring out but how did you get that armor to come down? Like how did you get people to start feeling comfortable to even come to to a men's circle? I feel like that would have been the first difficult part of this journey. Maurizio Rosini: Yeah. Ben Bagg: The way you just described the problem, the s our current solution as men to that problem is we put the armor on. Right. and that's and and that must be that must have been very challenging as you first started your first your first circle. Maurizio Rosini: Well dear Ben, whatever I reply like this. Whatever you can see, you can question. Whatever you can question, you can transform. The point is this, let me repeat. Whatever you can see, you can question. Whatever you can question, Ben Bagg: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Maurizio Rosini: you can transform. To reply Ben Bagg: Okay. Maurizio Rosini: to your question is this: the majority of men, because Ne has never been given to them the tools, the courage, the environment Ben Bagg: Yeah. Maurizio Rosini: to deal with our inner work. Therefore, we disconnect. They they are not even aware that they have an armor. So Ben Bagg: Yeah. Maurizio Rosini: they'll work in autopilot until the pain becomes so strong Ben Bagg: Crush. Maurizio Rosini: that you know the armor cracks. But it cracks in a way that you know probably you are aware. there's about 750,000 People killing themselves worldwide a year. The eighty five percent are men. Every form of addiction, men are the number one. There is a reason, and nobody asks why. Ben Bagg: Yeah. Maurizio Rosini: Because we don't know how to deal. So, what we do is to create a safe environment to reply to your question. It is a safe environment where a man feels safe enough to recognize where the patterns lie and is very subtle, where he always is an autopilot, and start to question himself and understanding and realizing and acknowledging. wow, now I got it. Ben Bagg: Yeah. Maurizio Rosini: Why every time I'm in that situation I feel so insecure and become aggressive and I go full of anger? It's not because of the situation itself, it's how I deal with it. So is Ben Bagg: Yeah. Maurizio Rosini: the taking ownership that the who is experienced anger, frustration, Ben Bagg: Yeah. Maurizio Rosini: jealousy, greedy. It's not because of others. You are the one. So recognizing that and supporting them with several tools on how to recognize and deal with their own inner dialogue, man, is fucking life-changing. It is really life-changing. I can take it's four years we do this, Ben Bagg: Yeah. So Maurizio Rosini: huh? We got a thousand men joining from all over the country, Ben Bagg: Yeah. Maurizio Rosini: plus abroad. I can tell you without names, but I can tell you stories of incredible transformation. Incredible. Ben Bagg: Yeah. I mean I ca I can imagine. I believe I I believe in therap therapeutic, you know, activities and and this this feels like a very good one. Let me let me 'cause obviously when you first got started you were doing a lot of lead generation, you're getting a lot of people talking to you, right? You people were messaging you. I imagine that what you've just been talking about here with is like they would go quiet because perhaps there's that male ego, like or like, well you Yeah, but I hear what you're saying where the cracks in the armour are the the destructive habits. Right? So when you were talking to like men to try and join the circle, is that what you were kind of try talking to them about? Like some of the perhaps destructive habits to convince them that okay, maybe you should come and join our circle? Like what what were you finding the conversations to be about? and why do you think they started to go quiet on you in in the early days of you launching Maurizio Rosini: Well so okay initially four years ago it everything started as an experiment and became an experience. Ben Bagg: Yeah. Maurizio Rosini: So I leverage, I'm very blessed God gave me this gift of getting people together, right? So Ben Bagg: Okay. Maurizio Rosini: and as I told you back to 17s, you know, when I was 17, now I see how I can serve. And that's my way of contributing in this lifetime. But so Ben Bagg: Yeah. Maurizio Rosini: at the beginning it started just leveraging the network. For the first two years, I was just doing for the sake of I feel right. Ben Bagg: Yeah. Maurizio Rosini: but I wasn't yeah, I was very skeptical on what Ben Bagg: Just getting some guys together kind of thing. Like just getting some yeah. Maurizio Rosini: is gonna take me this. But then it was very clear that you know the more I I put myself there with my heart, with all my intentions, it became it started to become A way of living my lifestyle, you know, and therefore I founded my mastermind, which is the brand, and we started to be very structured. So men's circles, men's retreat. I I work corporates with patronas, big companies, and I do one-on-one coaching. I went out on podcasts, so on and so forth. I've been learning on the way. To understand what really man needs, we got three communities, two in Kuala Lumpur, one in Pinangui, where I'm constantly asking the guys, what are you needing right now? Is emotional intelligence, is dealing with anger, is more physical vitality, what you need the most. So to the particular question, it is a journey of discovering and I learned on the way on how to spend in literally thousands of hours the art of copywriting and how to address the pain that guys they don't talk about. So at the beginning of generating leads, as I mentioned before the interview, extremely good on taking action and physically gather the guys. But when Ben Bagg: Yeah. Maurizio Rosini: it comes to warm up a cold audience doing something which is very unique. Nikki Malaysia at the moment, Ben Bagg: Yeah. Very. Maurizio Rosini: yeah. it took me, I invest quite a lot of thousand ringits in in pay ads, very good on getting the leads, but to convert them because I didn't know how to funnel, I didn't know how to I was very you see, something can be interesting, it resonates the founders online. Once we do a business, it's our baby. We we breathe, we sleep with it, we wake up, we dream, we so we know we have everything clear. Ben Bagg: Yeah. Maurizio Rosini: But not necessarily the the the our avatar knows exactly. Ben Bagg: Yeah. Maurizio Rosini: especially if it's a product or service like in my case that is quite unique. So Ben Bagg: Yeah. Maurizio Rosini: the the big the fact that to stay in the topic of your podcast, it was assuming at the beginning that each man for the sake of receiving the message just reach out to me. Ben Bagg: Yeah. Maurizio Rosini: 10 out of 10, they should have joined. And that was creating Ben Bagg: Yeah. Maurizio Rosini: a lot of judgment of myself, judgment of them. Ben Bagg: Okay. Maurizio Rosini: So it was even a very important work that I've done. Number one, having no expectations, but to learn the art of in a short time, without them knowing you, to deliver a message that get them engaged, to be curious, to proceed the conversation, and then to eventually join. Ben Bagg: Hook them in. Yeah, so I guess your biggest lesson then is, you know, what you realised the pat you needed to hook them in to get them to talk to you. What were some of those conversations actually like? Maurizio Rosini: I try everything. So I I I did try everything like oof, I go by memory now. So I started simply do boosting some reels or carousel on IG, so then trying the different features and see to which one more response. So people were according to sign up or get more Ben Bagg: Yeah. Maurizio Rosini: info. I try leaving them a short write-up. And most of them, what is this? Then I create a very simple PDF. And then I post the PDF. Some of them, I don't know, gonna open link, maybe it's a scam. Or some of them they keep asking me the same question even after sending them the information. Then Ben Bagg: Yeah. Maurizio Rosini: I thought, let me res let me try to connect more personally, one by one, with try to understand their name on the on the IG chat. Hey Abdul, let's call you Abdul, it's Maurizio, this is what we do, and I've seen That leaving a personal message but is not sustainable when you start to have 100-200 leads was was Ben Bagg: Yeah. Maurizio Rosini: working well. Now we implement a website with landing pages, so now I direct them to the landing page, so now start to be more structured. And you know, I'm I have a quite strong presence in the LinkedIn, in IG, so there is a the authority is there. So they just if it's if they go on IG, they sit at them sit with 30 men, leading men's circle. on a stage so you know when it comes to the psychology which is very fascinating of how men how men behave they cause some resistance obviously especially in something like this like is this like a gay thing or is this like you know I got a lot of crazy questions you know but when they see the social media they see this is a legit thing and I can tell you Ben things are changing anyways because there is the need And I can see more and more and more men organically even are reaching out. So now I have a funnel, first of all, which it might hopefully help somebody in the same position. When I get the lead, I say, Hey Maori here. Be before we proceed with our conversation, do you know anything about men's circle? So I don't need to explain you more. So these questions put them in the position to reply much easier. So Ben Bagg: Yeah. Maurizio Rosini: When you get a lead and you there is a straightforward question, you give to them the yes or no. It's a closed question, so most likely they Ben Bagg: Yeah. Maurizio Rosini: cut up. But when the question is open and you put them in a with honest curiosity to know, do you know nothing something about it? Ben Bagg: Yeah. Maurizio Rosini: Usually the one interested, they always reply, yes, I know a bit, I've been checking your website. No, brother, I don't know. Can you please explain me? And then the conversation starts. Ben Bagg: I couldn't agree with you more and like and it's interesting that on a B2C environment it's the same as B2B. So I always sort of when we're training and or or like coaching around sales or or talking about sales, like B2B, your outbound, your outreach, your your funnel needs to be about starting a conversation. And that's what you've literally just described, like rather than give them a yes, no, or here's an information pack. You ask an open ended question to start a conversation. And of course you can't ask an open ended question that's too complicated when they have to like some existential crisis, but it's just like a simpler question that anyone can answer. They don't have to overthink it, but it's open enough for the conversation. Absolutely fantastic. And and so that's something that you learnt from like your trial and error, from spending money on ads, sitting in the inbox, talking to people, And and obviously just believing in what you were doing. I think that's a an excellent lesson to improve your your funnel. was there any a po ever a part or a point, because you've been saying today that Like you were kinda from since seventeen you knew that you were put on this planet to do something like this, to g or you weren't sure that it was this, but you knew you wanted to give back. You figured out that it was men's circles. was there any point when you were struggling to get people to come that you were like, maybe I'm building the wrong thing? And you had to like re self belief s every day. Maurizio Rosini: Ben, and that's the beauty. Before to come online with you, something came up in my mind, and I'm gonna share with you right now. If you think entrepreneurship, being a founder is something that now it's like or you work in corporate or you have your own business. So there are choices, right? But I want to always to invite you and the your great audience to think. About since four thousand, four thousand five hundred years ago, in this beautiful land called Mother Earth, there were human beings looking as us, probably not as developed in terms of brain dynamics, but hu men and women looking exactly like us. And back then there were tribes, there were the clan, there was no corporate, right? So each one of us was a plumber, the other was pigeon peasant, and so on and so forth. So entrepreneurship is is life, is making peace. With the unknown and is having the courage when you feel you are doing and being the right thing to keep going. So and I'm not judging whoever choice choose to go corporate. I spent 17 years in fashion, Prada, Gucci, so I and I I know quite well the corporate environment. You know Entrepreneurship, being a founder, is one of the most powerful ways to grow in life. Is constantly Ben Bagg: Hm. Maurizio Rosini: put yourself in a in a comfort in a comfortable zone. It's like being in a relationship, but you are in a relationship with yourself. So to be successful, I guess If you see biographies and interviews of the biggest men and women that have been creating empires according to their call, to the what the thought was real, solving a problem, it's the most beautiful, loving relationship and project you have with your with your life. Besides the business itself, it's all about you. Ben Bagg: Yeah. Yeah. Maurizio Rosini: Ben, you are a vessel for the founder of Faxa, for your own business, for the community I am. We all are a vessel that is now nurturing the business. And in the degree that we are able to Do as I said before at the beginning of the conversation, the only way out is in, it's all inner work. But we don't re we don't realize it because we are we are human beings, we are not human doing. There is a reason why we are human beings, and as soon as we realize that living Consciously and consciously is not the projection of let me fix something outside me, and therefore I gonna solution solve because it's temporary, because then the problem comes back again. Everything is within. So once we realize that, and it's an incredible acknowledgement, you don't need to be a guru, you don't need to spend eight Ben Bagg: Yeah. Maurizio Rosini: hours under a tree and drinking water to meditate. You can drive a Ben Bagg: Ha ha ha. Maurizio Rosini: beautiful Bentley, you can make a hundred billion dollars a year, which I wish with all my heart to all of you, all of us but living consciously even on a business is the ch game changer Ben Bagg: Yeah. Maurizio Rosini: Every solution is not changing the leads. Every solution is Empathize with your avatar, understanding Ben Bagg: Yeah. Maurizio Rosini: what they're looking for, let them understand they are not a number, but you are you are seriously there to solve or to open doors for them or to provide a service. So especially when it comes working in a kind of a niche, dealing with human beings, in this case men, that have been programmed just to be very much in our head, very analytical to solve problem, to solve everybody's problem beside themselves. Ben Bagg: Yeah. Yeah. Maurizio Rosini: Is an art of communication, empathy, and understanding. So when I saw this within me, paradoxically, it's not about KPIs. The leads start to convert. So I will until the last breath in my life, that's what I'm gonna share. It's everything is within. It sounds poetic, Ben Bagg: Yeah. Yeah. Maurizio Rosini: cheesy, but it try and then let me know. Ben Bagg: No, I'm understanding you. I'm understanding you. And so once you had finally like I mean, I from what I understood, the fixes that we've been talking about here from your original founder, founder fuck up was, you know, we spent a lot of money, we got lots of replies, we weren't getting conversations, we weren't getting people to come to to our circles, but we knew that the circles were important. We believed that we know within, and so we never gave up, although there were obviously moments that you thought about it like everybody. but you came to the conclusion of educate first. ask second. so what does that look like now, like today? Like what ha you mentioned you alluded to some landing pages, like but how 'cause obviously you can't clone yourself. So how how does that look like today? Cause I imagine it's not those personal one-on-one messages on on Instagram anymore, like you you you've you've had to to systemize it a little bit. How how do you educate first and ask second today? Maurizio Rosini: Great great question, Ben. So actually in this very moment I did allocate twenty percent of the marketing budget on I call it phase one. Phase one it's low budget but consistently meta meta ads consistently run in order to have as a ROI leads. So getting leads into the website. And educate, as you said. So every copy, every video that we are changing now, we are seeing which one is performing better, is specifically craft for a cold audience to get their Ben Bagg: Got. Maurizio Rosini: attention and to start to have a conversation. That is gonna be phase two, more specific in terms of final. So to offer a service and then to final down. But going back to your question, I'm According to my resources in terms of t time, knowledge, and obviously finance, I'm okay because I really believe what I'm doing, what we are doing. in education, right? So yes, now I'm investing, being okay as ROI, even if they don't convert in pay attendees, but at least which is happening. Hey Maori, you know what? Fuck this looks very good. I cannot come from this man's circle, but please keep me in the newsletter, or please keep me updated. so I'm okay on investing even in education. And this goes a lot even organically, then I do organically, I have Two, I mean substacks, LinkedIn business, personal, Facebook link personal business. I run three newsletters, one voice, audio podcast, sorry, and I do an amount of incredible of copy, which I automatized in order to create that authority that when somebody comes. They chase as fuck this guy's legit. I like Ben Bagg: Yeah. Maurizio Rosini: the message. So you see It's about belief because you keep planting, planting, playing, and the success that you are experienced today, Ben, for example, is the work that you've been doing the past six months. And vice versa, the plant the seeds that you are planting today, you're gonna harvest them hopefully very soon, maybe next week or in two weeks or in three weeks. So it's it's a way of building. So in in especially in my girlfriend, for example, she's a yoga teacher, very powerful. But yoga, everybody knows. If I come to you, hey Ben, let's go to buy. For you say okay Maori, you know what to expect. So Ben Bagg: Yeah. Maurizio Rosini: I'm conscious that my role now is hammering, create awareness, and then start. And probably the next time you you ask me, say Maori, how things are going, I will be in a different stage, most likely, you know. Ben Bagg: Yeah. So that's interesting. So if I break that down, to make sure that I followed everything you were saying, your distribution, you create you've got, you know, you've got free newsletters, you create tons of content that gets pupped pushed by Meta with twenty percent of your ad budget purely on like educate, brand awareness, the newsletter and the podcast and all this creates that authority so that when they do eventually land in the middle of the funnel, they are they like, Okay, these guys know what they're talking about, there is a solution here for me. and so that's kind of what you you've been able to do to educate to be really focused on. I think that's really smart and like I think any founder who's pouring money into ads needs to kind of listen to this. I think what you've talked about how at least twenty percent of your budget isn't about getting leads or ROI or conversion, but it's about educating, it's about brand awareness. And I think many advertisers or people who actually spend on acquiring leads are so focused on that end result that they probably make it more expensive for themselves. I S when you started to spend twenty percent of your budget and do that education piece, did you later see that your other budget, your cost per lead reduced or your customer acquisition costs reduced? Because when people saw your conversion ads, they already knew who you were and that education piece helped? Maurizio Rosini: Yes, yes. Okay, from the backhand standpoint, I don't take the credit because one of my mates is Australian, used to live in KL, now he he he has a family in Australia, so he's he's running all the back ends and strategy. He's a kind of the CMO of My Master Man. Ben Bagg: Okay. Maurizio Rosini: Actually he is he is the CMO of My Masterman. so it it follows up this. So you always need to co to consider something. The cost of acquisition can be high at the beginning, but once you do example, give you my you decide because you really believe in the service or product that you are serving, you are promoting. Remember that the leads that as maybe I don't know, let's say five dollars cost of acquisition just to give a number. Once you have them as the leads and then you nurture them through newsletters, through free free value for example in my case how to deal with rejection how to deal with people pleasing and you nurture them the cost of acquisition becomes zero then in the long run because you invest once but then you have them loyal because you keep nourishing them nurture them so at the beginning the cost can be higher but you always have to consider that once you have them in your mailing list and you nurture them no not all of them will love you. Maybe somebody will uns unscribe. But if you give them you know a good service, you know, then the cost is zero. So it's an initial investment. I assume, I mean in my case, I'm here for the long run. So I this is is is a is a game of mid-term, long term, right? So that's that's the way I see it. Ben Bagg: Yeah. I guess a lot of people at different stages depending on the business age or or the demands of the business can be a little bit short term focused in results and it's good to have that sort of mid to long range thinking so that you're not just obsessed with conversion, conversion, conversion. I think especially in the type of business that you're in and and and in in really in and that I'm in, is that if you're super focused on conversion you lose the a a lot of the the impact of what you're doing is lost. 'Cause if you're focused on s acquiring revenue as opposed to delivering value, it can be mismatched. Borizio, thank you so much for sharing some of your story. If you were to give sort of one piece of advice to a founder who's about to get started, maybe running ads, what what would that be? That one final piece of wisdom? Maurizio Rosini: Well well I I won't go to the technical side because I give for granted that you know how to manage the art of doing meta ads. but what I will suggest to you the intention. Why are you doing this? The intention is everything. And the intention, as I said before, you are a vessel. Either do you express your business, your service, your product, you must be very clear. What are you solving and why are you doing it? Because and that's that's you know, so make clear what's the intention about the campaign you're Ben Bagg: Yeah. Maurizio Rosini: doing. Ben Bagg: No, appreciate it. Thank you so much for coming on. And if people wanted to learn about some of your circles, how do they find out? Maurizio Rosini: Thanks for this opportunity. So I'm hyperactive as I told you. So easy, you go to mymasterman altogether.com or IG mymasterman.coach and then you see plenty of it from there. Then you can explore LinkedIn, TikTok, and Substacks. My Masterman. Ben Bagg: Fantastic. Thank you so much for sharing. Thank you so much for sharing and thanks for coming on the pot. Maurizio Rosini: Thank you for your opportunity and keep up the good work, brother. Ben Bagg: We'll do. Thank you.