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Why Are Women Overworked & Underpaid? · She's On The Money

0:00
Speaker 1: Hello.
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Speaker 2: My name's Santasha Nabananga Bamblet. I'm a proud Yr the
0:05
Speaker 2: Order Kerney Whalbury and a waddery woman. And before we
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Speaker 2: get started on She's on the Money podcast, I would
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Speaker 2: like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land of
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Speaker 2: which this podcast is recorded on a wondery country, acknowledging
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Speaker 2: the elders, the ancestors and the next generation coming through
0:23
Speaker 2: as this podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing and
0:27
Speaker 2: the storytelling of you to make a difference for today
0:31
Speaker 2: and lasting impact for tomorrow.
0:33
Speaker 3: Let's get into it.
0:34
Speaker 4: She's on the Money, She's on the Money.
0:57
Speaker 5: Hello, and welcome to She's on the Money. The podcasts
1:00
Speaker 5: millennials who want financial freedom. My name is Becksied and
1:03
Speaker 5: with me is Victoria Divine.
1:05
Speaker 3: Hello. Beck, Are you excited for this episode?
1:08
Speaker 1: I'm so excited.
1:09
Speaker 3: We're going to talk about why women are overworked and
1:11
Speaker 3: underpage So it's a little bit of a spicy episode.
1:15
Speaker 3: Did you know that Australia's national gender pay gap is
1:17
Speaker 3: currently sitting at twenty two point eight percent. No, no,
1:22
Speaker 3: the insane right. Men are twice as likely to be
1:25
Speaker 3: in the top earning bracket and women are one point
1:28
Speaker 3: five times more likely to be in the lowest.
1:31
Speaker 1: Wow.
1:31
Speaker 3: In fact, every single industry in Australia has a gender
1:34
Speaker 3: pay gap that favors men, and the gender pay gap
1:38
Speaker 3: increased in eight industries in twenty twenty two. Oh my disgusting.
1:43
Speaker 3: That is really wild, so frustrating. So today we're going
1:47
Speaker 3: to be talking about why women are overworked and underpaid.
1:50
Speaker 3: We're going to be looking at the mats, the stereotypes,
1:53
Speaker 3: the quiet and the overt forces in society that contribute
1:56
Speaker 3: to this situation and what we can do about it.
1:58
Speaker 3: Before we go there, though, I think I really want
2:01
Speaker 3: to acknowledge that the Australian Bureau of Statistics, while it
2:04
Speaker 3: is a fantastic data source one of my favorites. In fact, Beck,
2:08
Speaker 3: you're probably not as keen on them as I am,
2:11
Speaker 3: because like I'm just a stats nerd, Like I literally
2:14
Speaker 3: have a minor in statistics at university. But I really
2:18
Speaker 3: enjoy following the abs on Instagram.
2:20
Speaker 1: Oh they have an Instagram. They have an.
2:22
Speaker 3: Instagram and their content is elite, very funny, like very funny,
2:27
Speaker 3: very funny content. I will show you later. Oh they
2:30
Speaker 3: have away with their numbers and if you don't follow
2:33
Speaker 3: the abs on Instagram, you're honestly missing out. Also the
2:36
Speaker 3: social media manager who runs that, if you want to
2:38
Speaker 3: talk to me, I would let you run cheese on
2:40
Speaker 3: the money. Yeah yeah, so slide into my DMS. But
2:43
Speaker 3: the thing I wanted to mention about the Australian Bureau
2:45
Speaker 3: of Statistics. While they are really good at data and
2:49
Speaker 3: obviously social media, they are not so good at inclusivity.
2:52
Speaker 3: So we only have various stereotyped topics to talk about
2:57
Speaker 3: today because that data doesn't exist for our indigenous friends,
3:00
Speaker 3: it doesn't exist for our transgender friends, it doesn't exist
3:03
Speaker 3: for anybody in the LGBTQIA plus community. And I think
3:07
Speaker 3: that that's worth talking about here because as much as
3:10
Speaker 3: we can look at the national gender pay gap that's
3:12
Speaker 3: going to be calculated off these statistics, it's going to
3:15
Speaker 3: be even bigger for our friends facing those diversities. So
3:19
Speaker 3: I wanted to highlight that first that you guys are
3:22
Speaker 3: always front of mind, and it's not just men versus
3:25
Speaker 3: women from our perspective, but this is the data that
3:28
Speaker 3: we have, and I think any step in the right
3:30
Speaker 3: direction is a step towards equality in general, and I
3:33
Speaker 3: just wanted that to be upfront, Beck, because I feel
3:35
Speaker 3: like it's really unfair that I can't talk more comprehensively
3:39
Speaker 3: to even more information that would benefit our community, because
3:42
Speaker 3: unfortunately it does not exist.
3:44
Speaker 5: Thank you very much for acknowledging that. V. That's definitely
3:46
Speaker 5: a very good point to make. So those numbers that
3:48
Speaker 5: you just mentioned reported by the Workplace Gender Equality Agency,
3:51
Speaker 5: how exactly are they calculated?
3:53
Speaker 2: So?
3:53
Speaker 3: The national gender pay gap is calculated by the WGEA
3:58
Speaker 3: using data that comes from the ABS, the Australian Bureau
4:00
Speaker 3: of Statistics, my one true Instagram love and I actually
4:04
Speaker 3: have some more stats for you, and I don't think
4:06
Speaker 3: you're gonna like them. The WEGA data for the twenty
4:09
Speaker 3: twenty one SLASH twenty twenty two reporting period showed that
4:11
Speaker 3: women received an average remuneration of ninety three hundred and
4:15
Speaker 3: nine dollars per annum, which I thought was high. Did
4:18
Speaker 3: you think that was high? That feels very high. Yeah,
4:20
Speaker 3: knowing the community, knowing what our average income is, I
4:24
Speaker 3: was like, oh, this is all working women though, so
4:26
Speaker 3: we're talking all lens of the spectrum. This includes women
4:29
Speaker 3: who are stay at home mums, and it also includes
4:32
Speaker 3: women who were judges and you know, really fancy, big
4:35
Speaker 3: dog doctors and own their own businesses. So this is
4:38
Speaker 3: every single woman that is working in Australia. Just to
4:41
Speaker 3: contextualize that a little bit, because I looked at it
4:43
Speaker 3: and I was like, that's not the average income of
4:46
Speaker 3: my community members. Yeah, some of you it will be,
4:49
Speaker 3: and you'll be like, oh, that makes sense. But the
4:51
Speaker 3: thing that annoys me men in the same position one
4:54
Speaker 3: hundred and sixteen and ninety seven dollars. That is a
4:58
Speaker 3: difference of twenty five, seven hundred and eighty eight dollars
5:02
Speaker 3: a year.
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Speaker 2: Beck.
5:03
Speaker 1: That is so wild.
5:05
Speaker 3: Do you know what twenty five seven hundred and eighty
5:08
Speaker 3: eight dollars per year? Could be? Mortgage repayments? Yes, it
5:12
Speaker 3: could be an entire house.
5:14
Speaker 1: It could be financial freedom.
5:16
Speaker 3: It could be literally so many things. So before we
5:19
Speaker 3: get even further into it, actually wanted to find what
5:22
Speaker 3: the gender pay gap is because there are obviously so
5:24
Speaker 3: many other gaps that exist, but the national gender pay
5:28
Speaker 3: gap that we are referencing here today measures the difference
5:31
Speaker 3: between the average weekly full time base salary earnings of
5:34
Speaker 3: men and women, expressed as a percentage of men's earnings.
5:38
Speaker 2: BECK.
5:38
Speaker 3: It is a measure of women's overall position in the
5:41
Speaker 3: paid workforce, and we're not comparing roles. So when we're
5:45
Speaker 3: not going, oh, a male doctor gets paid this and
5:47
Speaker 3: a female doctor gets paid this, we're actually just talking
5:50
Speaker 3: about the overarching gap between on average, what women earn
5:55
Speaker 3: versus what men earn. And obviously that takes into consideration
5:59
Speaker 3: a whole host of other things like decisions to stay
6:02
Speaker 3: out of the workforce, and all of that makes sense.
6:05
Speaker 3: But I don't want people thinking, oh, they're comparing like
6:08
Speaker 3: for like, it's illegal to pay men and women different
6:10
Speaker 3: amounts for the same job. Like, we know that exists,
6:13
Speaker 3: and we also know that while it is illegal to
6:15
Speaker 3: pay people different amounts for the same job, it still happens. Yes,
6:19
Speaker 3: So I'm not going to go on and on about it,
6:21
Speaker 3: but I do think it's really important to define that.
6:23
Speaker 3: We're just talking about the average difference between men and
6:26
Speaker 3: women and the factors that come into that. So that's
6:29
Speaker 3: where we're at. Okay, So how is.
6:31
Speaker 5: It the people often regard the gender pay gap as
6:33
Speaker 5: a myth? Still, yeah, makes myths.
6:37
Speaker 3: Or frustrate, But in Australia's industrial relation system, as I
6:41
Speaker 3: said before, it's actually illegal to pay a woman less
6:44
Speaker 3: than a man when they're employed to do identical jobs.
6:46
Speaker 3: That doesn't stop it from happening, certainly not, but the
6:50
Speaker 3: numbers don't lie. And today we are going to be
6:52
Speaker 3: spotlighting the myriad of reasons that there is a twenty
6:55
Speaker 3: two point eight percent gap and why it exists.
6:58
Speaker 1: Yes, please, So.
6:59
Speaker 3: The reason, well, women obviously earn the less because they
7:03
Speaker 3: are obviously more likely and I say obviously because I
7:06
Speaker 3: think it's stereotypical. I find it interesting that it's, you know,
7:10
Speaker 3: obviously women are going to take that on. I think
7:12
Speaker 3: that's very you know Australian dream or American dream that
7:15
Speaker 3: that happens. But women are earning less because they are
7:19
Speaker 3: more likely to juggle paid work alongside family and caring responsibilities.
7:23
Speaker 3: Because women just take up the caring responsibility they have to.
7:26
Speaker 3: Sometimes it doesn't make it right. It doesn't mean that
7:29
Speaker 3: we support that, but it just happens. So forty two
7:33
Speaker 3: percent of women work full time while sixty seven percent
7:37
Speaker 3: of men work full time, and this reflects the reality
7:40
Speaker 3: that many women are juggling paid work alongside many other
7:43
Speaker 3: responsibilities that aren't once that you can earn money for.
7:46
Speaker 5: Beck coming off the back of that, this is very
7:48
Speaker 5: obvious that it's a little bit stereotypes.
7:50
Speaker 3: It's a little bit stereotypical. Not that women stay at
7:53
Speaker 3: home exactly to get work and they bring home the
7:56
Speaker 3: baking kind of vibes exactly gives me the ick.
7:59
Speaker 1: Yeah, a little bit.
8:00
Speaker 5: Three twenty twenty three. I know that, you know, there
8:02
Speaker 5: are women out there who just do not want children,
8:05
Speaker 5: who will never have children, who you know, whatever else,
8:08
Speaker 5: and there are women out there who are in not
8:11
Speaker 5: heteronormative relationships. So there are so many different people that
8:14
Speaker 5: this does not relate to. But it is worth mentioning
8:17
Speaker 5: that this is you know, this is not one brush
8:20
Speaker 5: for all.
8:20
Speaker 3: So absolutely not. We just this is us breaking down
8:23
Speaker 3: data unfortunately, not us breaking down stereotyped. Yes, I feel
8:27
Speaker 3: like we have to caveat this episode so many times
8:29
Speaker 3: because I'm like, this isn't including all of my friends,
8:31
Speaker 3: This isn't including the people that I love, This isn't
8:34
Speaker 3: including this. But I think it's a really good place
8:36
Speaker 3: to start because, as I said before, our gender pay
8:39
Speaker 3: gap for what we can measure is twenty two point
8:41
Speaker 3: eight percent. I guarantee it's more for our indigenous friends.
8:44
Speaker 3: I guarantee it's more for our LGBTQIA plus community. I
8:48
Speaker 3: just there's so much more to talk about there. And
8:50
Speaker 3: I think that you know, we're being a bit stereotypical
8:54
Speaker 3: because we're not stereotypical. And I find it relatively novel
8:57
Speaker 3: that you know, men have to work and were and
9:00
Speaker 3: have to stay home, like that's clearly not going to
9:02
Speaker 3: happen in my relationship, though I think that we should
9:05
Speaker 3: be caveating it. But also, we're not here to break
9:08
Speaker 3: down stereotypes in this episode. We're just here to talk
9:10
Speaker 3: about the data and what we can do to facilitate change.
9:13
Speaker 5: Yes, absolutely, and hopefully there will be a day where
9:15
Speaker 5: we are all part of this data one hundred percent.
9:18
Speaker 5: But I did want to ask the drinking COVID offered
9:21
Speaker 5: a bit of an opportunity for workplaces to be more
9:24
Speaker 5: flexible with their workers.
9:25
Speaker 3: I don't think it offered. I think it forced people
9:27
Speaker 3: to go into more flexible working arrangements and people now
9:30
Speaker 3: expect it, which I kind of love as somebody, Yeah,
9:33
Speaker 3: I love having flexible work arrangements, but I also know
9:37
Speaker 3: of a few businesses who were really miffed that that
9:39
Speaker 3: was the case, and now their employees are expecting more
9:42
Speaker 3: flexibility because they proved that they were just as productive
9:45
Speaker 3: outside of the workplace. But the WEGA also did an
9:49
Speaker 3: employer's census and found that flexibility has become increasingly important
9:53
Speaker 3: to employees, with most employers sitting at eighty two percent
9:57
Speaker 3: now installing a formal policy on flexibility and remote working
10:02
Speaker 3: and flexible work hours were the most popular options, with
10:05
Speaker 3: employers less likely to offer a compressed work week or
10:08
Speaker 3: job sharing for example. Right, I find it so interesting
10:12
Speaker 3: and when it comes to gender equality in the workplace,
10:15
Speaker 3: wega's twenty twenty two employer census contained a voluntary question
10:20
Speaker 3: because I didn't make everybody answer it. They asked businesses
10:23
Speaker 3: whether they set targets to improve workplace gender equality, and
10:27
Speaker 3: a little more than half so fifty three percent beck
10:30
Speaker 3: of employers filing reports said they had set targets. The
10:34
Speaker 3: most popular goal was to increase the number of women
10:37
Speaker 3: in leadership. Employers were less likely to set targets to
10:40
Speaker 3: increase the number of men taking parental leave or to
10:42
Speaker 3: increase the number of men in female dominated roles, and
10:46
Speaker 3: just over half so fifty four percent of employers conducted
10:49
Speaker 3: a gender pay gap analysis. This year, and of those,
10:52
Speaker 3: forty percent took no action as a result.
10:55
Speaker 1: Wow.
10:56
Speaker 3: I also want to point out there, Beck, if you
10:58
Speaker 3: were an employer and you were doing this survey and
11:01
Speaker 3: they asked you whether or not you were setting targets
11:03
Speaker 3: to improve workplace gender equality and you actually weren't doing it,
11:08
Speaker 3: You're like, weren't doing anything to set targets or improve
11:11
Speaker 3: workplace gender equality? Would you tick the box and say no,
11:15
Speaker 3: I'm doing nothing? Would just skip that question because it
11:17
Speaker 3: was voluntary. I would say no, but you would say
11:20
Speaker 3: it because you're an open, honest person. I think everybody
11:23
Speaker 3: else would just skip the question because it was voluntary.
11:26
Speaker 3: So I think we need to probably go all right, Well,
11:28
Speaker 3: a little more than half, like fifty three percent of
11:30
Speaker 3: employers said that they had set targets, but I actually
11:32
Speaker 3: think that might be a little bit lower because some
11:34
Speaker 3: people have actually skipped the question because it was voluntary.
11:37
Speaker 3: Does that make sense because completely makes sense. I wouldn't
11:39
Speaker 3: own up to not doing it.
11:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know what you mean.
11:41
Speaker 3: I just feel like other people wouldn't either.
11:43
Speaker 5: I would say yes because I actually want things to change,
11:45
Speaker 5: but a lot of people would say no or just.
11:47
Speaker 3: Give it because you're a hot girl. That's exactly why.
11:50
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, thank you.
11:51
Speaker 3: You're welcome.
11:53
Speaker 5: This is a little bit of a controversial question. Okay,
11:56
Speaker 5: do you think women earn less because they work in
11:59
Speaker 5: industries payless?
12:01
Speaker 1: Aha?
12:02
Speaker 3: This kills me, The question kills me. I had a
12:05
Speaker 3: full blown argument with somebody on TikTok because I can't
12:08
Speaker 3: hold myself back, and a lot of my friends are like, Victoria,
12:10
Speaker 3: just don't reply to the comments. I'm like, I can't.
12:12
Speaker 3: I don't have that level of self control. I posted
12:15
Speaker 3: something about the pay gap and then somebody was like, yeah,
12:17
Speaker 3: but women earnless because they choose industries the polless. But
12:21
Speaker 3: unfortunately that's not it. But yes, women represent strongly in
12:26
Speaker 3: lower paid industries like education, healthcare, and social assistance, while
12:30
Speaker 3: men are concentrated in higher paying industries such as construction
12:34
Speaker 3: and mining and utilities. And some people argue that if
12:37
Speaker 3: women wanted to earn more, they should move out of
12:39
Speaker 3: traditional female led fields and switch into jobs like engineering
12:42
Speaker 3: or mining or building or the trades and stuff like
12:45
Speaker 3: that instead. But we really need to reassess how much
12:48
Speaker 3: value the jobs that are essentially fostering a healthy and
12:51
Speaker 3: educated society are adding. And I think that we learned
12:54
Speaker 3: a lot about that during COVID, where Hoo debriw rely
12:58
Speaker 3: on the most. During OH we relied on education, healthcare,
13:03
Speaker 3: and social assistance the most. Tell me where the lack
13:06
Speaker 3: of value is there, because we needed those people. They
13:08
Speaker 3: were absolutely essential while a lot of industries were locked
13:12
Speaker 3: down and at home. I think it was a really
13:14
Speaker 3: good reframe for us to understand where the value in
13:18
Speaker 3: our society exists and where we should actually be funneling
13:21
Speaker 3: a lot more money. But the problem is that the
13:23
Speaker 3: true value of many of these, like human services jobs,
13:26
Speaker 3: are dispersed widely throughout society, and the benefits are not
13:30
Speaker 3: immediately visible and not fully reflective of their unfortunately low wages.
13:34
Speaker 1: A men that fee is really so angry.
13:39
Speaker 3: This whole episode is making me mad.
13:41
Speaker 5: I know, it's really such a shame. And it's also
13:44
Speaker 5: kind of like, well, if women wanted to get paid more,
13:46
Speaker 5: get into jobs that don't really have availability for women, mining, construction,
13:53
Speaker 5: no one, you know, it's just.
13:54
Speaker 3: A lot not as accessible. I think the other thing
13:57
Speaker 3: is like, yeah, we are completely confident and capable and
13:59
Speaker 3: we can do that. But yes, having spoken to a
14:02
Speaker 3: couple of girlfriends who used to work in construction who
14:05
Speaker 3: now don't work in construction. They're like, I left because
14:07
Speaker 3: it was boys club. I didn't like being there, I
14:10
Speaker 3: didn't feel advocated for, I didn't feel safe, I didn't
14:12
Speaker 3: enjoy working there because the culture is so cooked. Yes,
14:16
Speaker 3: so I think it's there's a lot that plays into
14:19
Speaker 3: the extent about accessibility for women.
14:21
Speaker 1: Yeah.
14:22
Speaker 5: Absolutely, and I guess it's kind of worth mentioning. Do
14:26
Speaker 5: you feel like the levels of physical danger at work
14:29
Speaker 5: maybe contribute to the higher pay in male dominated industries?
14:34
Speaker 3: Of course they do. The higher rates of workplace fatalities
14:37
Speaker 3: are reported in more male dominated industries like transport, warehousing, agriculture, construction,
14:43
Speaker 3: and this is largely reflective of the physical element of
14:46
Speaker 3: those jobs, right, And that just makes sense. The science
14:49
Speaker 3: is checking out. Fatalities are an absolute and undeniable tragedy,
14:53
Speaker 3: and no one would ever disagree with this. But I
14:55
Speaker 3: must say too that mental stress is certainly something that
14:58
Speaker 3: should be way more of our as well. Like look
15:01
Speaker 3: at the top ten jobs with the highest number of
15:03
Speaker 3: claims for workplace related mental stress, and we find that
15:06
Speaker 3: female dominated professions like health and welfare support workers and
15:10
Speaker 3: nurses and personal cares and school teachers alongside paramedics and
15:13
Speaker 3: defense personnel and police officers and bus and rail drivers
15:17
Speaker 3: are really really high. So when it comes to injury,
15:22
Speaker 3: physical and mental to me should be lumped into the
15:25
Speaker 3: same basket. And stress in these occupations honestly often comes
15:29
Speaker 3: from exposure to violence or a traumatic event to salt, harassment, bullying,
15:33
Speaker 3: and really should be valued in remuneration as well.
15:37
Speaker 1: One hundred percent V. I guess we'll absorble of that.
15:40
Speaker 5: We'll go to a quick break and be back in
15:42
Speaker 5: the ad.
15:43
Speaker 3: Stress see you on the flip sign. OKAV.
15:49
Speaker 5: We are back and we're talking about the gender pay gap.
15:52
Speaker 5: Ill now I want to know how about women in
15:56
Speaker 5: senior roles in companies and how this affects earning?
16:00
Speaker 3: Oh, good question. Wega's twenty twenty two Employer report shows
16:05
Speaker 3: that women are still underrepresented in leadership and men are
16:08
Speaker 3: one point five times more likely to hold managerial positions.
16:13
Speaker 3: Here are some statis that I have collected from that report.
16:15
Speaker 3: Twenty two point three percent of CEOs of women. I
16:18
Speaker 3: should have said only twenty two points of a women.
16:23
Speaker 3: But only twenty percent of boards have gender ellents wow,
16:27
Speaker 3: And twenty two point three percent of boards are constructed
16:31
Speaker 3: entirely of men. Wow, no women at all.
16:36
Speaker 1: Those are so outrageous.
16:38
Speaker 3: It's so gross, isn't it It is?
16:40
Speaker 5: This isn't like a men verus women to be But
16:42
Speaker 5: I must say, every single female boss I've had has
16:46
Speaker 5: been absolutely delightful. Men too, But I just want to
16:48
Speaker 5: you know, I want to say I.
16:49
Speaker 1: Can't share that.
16:50
Speaker 3: So I have had a few bosses that absolutely take
16:53
Speaker 3: the mickey, But I really don't think it comes down
16:55
Speaker 3: to their gender from my perspective. But statistics tell us
16:58
Speaker 3: that gender diverse workplaces are more productive and better places
17:01
Speaker 3: to be and more profitable and six million other better things.
17:04
Speaker 3: And I just I find it super interesting to dive
17:07
Speaker 3: into the stats.
17:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely checks out.
17:09
Speaker 5: Why is it that men tend to climb the career
17:12
Speaker 5: ladder more rapidly than women.
17:14
Speaker 3: There's so many reasons. Obviously, the most stereotypical one that
17:19
Speaker 3: comes up is taking time out of the workforce to
17:21
Speaker 3: raise children. And I feel like that's one of the
17:23
Speaker 3: most obvious factors that interrupts women's career progression, and remaining
17:27
Speaker 3: out of the workforce after having children is not always
17:30
Speaker 3: by choice. If a partner can't share the caring load
17:32
Speaker 3: or the childcare costs preclude the financial gains of returning
17:36
Speaker 3: full time. And as somebody who now has a lot
17:39
Speaker 3: of friends who have babies, I find it so genuinely
17:43
Speaker 3: interesting because you know, you hear stats like, oh, my gosh, Beck,
17:46
Speaker 3: did you know that you know childcare can be like
17:49
Speaker 3: one hundred and ten one hundred and thirty dollars per
17:51
Speaker 3: child per day, And you go, all right, well, if
17:54
Speaker 3: that's the statistic, and obviously there are definitely rebates available,
17:58
Speaker 3: but at one hundred and ten dollars a day day
18:00
Speaker 3: if they're doing that every day of the week, because
18:02
Speaker 3: if you're a full time worker, that's still five hundred
18:05
Speaker 3: and fifty dollars. What we need to remember is that's
18:08
Speaker 3: post tax. You've got two kids, that's now eleven hundred
18:12
Speaker 3: dollars a week that you're paying in childcare. And let's
18:16
Speaker 3: say that, you know, forty eight weeks of the year,
18:19
Speaker 3: because we all get four weeks off, right, If we
18:21
Speaker 3: times that by forty eight, that's fifty two, eight hundred
18:25
Speaker 3: dollars if you have two children in full time childcare. Wow,
18:29
Speaker 3: And a lot of women aren't earning that. And the
18:32
Speaker 3: fact that that is post tax, as well, if you're
18:36
Speaker 3: on a seventy thousand dollars income, it's not worth going
18:39
Speaker 3: back to work. If you're eighty thousand dollars, not worth
18:42
Speaker 3: going back to work. And those are good incomes. Beck
18:46
Speaker 3: And this frustrates me because in Australia, two kids is
18:49
Speaker 3: pretty standard, right, So to have two kids in childcare
18:52
Speaker 3: for that amount of money, right, I've done some stats.
18:55
Speaker 3: We've gone back to the WEGA data I mentioned earlier
18:58
Speaker 3: that said that women receive an average remuneration of ninety thousand,
19:01
Speaker 3: three hundred and nine dollars. I've assumed not including superannuations.
19:06
Speaker 3: So we're pretending that this is the best possible scenario.
19:09
Speaker 3: We're pretending that you've got ninety thousand dollars plus super
19:13
Speaker 3: each year. Right, So that's good. That means that you
19:16
Speaker 3: have an annual take home pay of sixty eight thousand,
19:19
Speaker 3: six hundred and eighty five dollars after tax, because you'd
19:23
Speaker 3: be paying about twenty one thousand, six hundred ish dollars
19:26
Speaker 3: in tax. And do you know what that means? That
19:28
Speaker 3: means if your two children are in full time childcare
19:32
Speaker 3: and you're going to work every single week, you're only
19:36
Speaker 3: earning fifteen thousand, eight hundred and eighty five dollars a year.
19:38
Speaker 1: That is so outrageous.
19:41
Speaker 3: And you divide that by twelve months of the year,
19:43
Speaker 3: you're earning about thirteen hundred dollars a month for being
19:46
Speaker 3: away from your kids for the entire time. And I
19:48
Speaker 3: think that makes a lot of sense when people say
19:51
Speaker 3: it's not worth returning to work, because we're not talking
19:53
Speaker 3: about returning to work part time. We're not talking about
19:56
Speaker 3: returning to a job that you get paid fifty grand.
20:00
Speaker 3: We are talking about that average salary of women of
20:03
Speaker 3: ninety three hundred and nine dollars. You are literally, if
20:06
Speaker 3: you put both of your kids in care and go
20:07
Speaker 3: to work, you're just fifteen thousand, eight hundred and eighty
20:10
Speaker 3: five dollars better. Gosh, imagine if you're a single mom
20:13
Speaker 3: and you don't have anyone to walk to your children
20:14
Speaker 3: during the week, that's fifteen thousand dollars. Like, if you
20:17
Speaker 3: are a single mom, how much are you going to
20:20
Speaker 3: pay on rent? How much you're going to pay on gross?
20:22
Speaker 3: That's not enough to survive, enough to spy. And then
20:25
Speaker 3: if you've got a duel income household and you're in
20:27
Speaker 3: that fortunate position, then that's fantastic, But what about the
20:31
Speaker 3: additional stress of being a full time parent, or having
20:34
Speaker 3: two full time parents, managing daycare, managing not seeing your
20:38
Speaker 3: kids that often because you have to drop them off
20:40
Speaker 3: at six point thirty in the morning, because you need
20:42
Speaker 3: to drive an hour and a half to get to
20:44
Speaker 3: work because you live a bit further out. Like to me,
20:46
Speaker 3: it is absolutely cooked. And you can tell I could
20:50
Speaker 3: go on and on and on about this, but yes,
20:53
Speaker 3: taking time out of the workforce to raise children is
20:55
Speaker 3: a women's issue, but often it's not a choice. And
20:58
Speaker 3: that's where I was getting at. I just feel like
21:00
Speaker 3: so many times like women take on the caring load
21:04
Speaker 3: or the childcare load because the costs really do keep
21:07
Speaker 3: you out of full time gainful employment, and it's not
21:10
Speaker 3: because you don't want to be there, like so many times,
21:13
Speaker 3: and it's a beautiful choice to make. If you choose
21:15
Speaker 3: to be a stay at home mump, you do you.
21:17
Speaker 3: I'm so proud that you get that opportunity to choose.
21:20
Speaker 3: But if you are someone like take my personality, I
21:24
Speaker 3: can't imagine not working when I have kids. I'm gonna
21:27
Speaker 3: love the hell out of them, but I also know
21:30
Speaker 3: that to be the best version of me. I also
21:33
Speaker 3: need to have that outlet. It's just who I am,
21:35
Speaker 3: so that would make it not financially viable. So it's
21:39
Speaker 3: not a choice that we all make. It's sometimes a
21:41
Speaker 3: choice we have to make. But even women without children, right,
21:45
Speaker 3: they don't necessarily reach senior ranks as quickly as men either,
21:48
Speaker 3: which is really gross. And even when women reach management levels,
21:52
Speaker 3: they still learn less than their male counterparts, which again
21:55
Speaker 3: gives me the ik.
21:56
Speaker 1: That gives me the ick too. That's wild.
21:59
Speaker 3: It's so so rude because underlyingly, men are seen as
22:03
Speaker 3: more confident, capable human beings.
22:05
Speaker 5: Oh my gosh, it's twenty twenty three in the most
22:09
Speaker 5: stereotypical terms. What about this idea that there's a difference
22:13
Speaker 5: in ambition and confidence between men and women.
22:16
Speaker 3: Where do you get that idea? Because there's literally no
22:18
Speaker 3: evidence that women lack in terms of career ambition Like
22:22
Speaker 3: that doesn't exist. That is something that people just say,
22:26
Speaker 3: maybe to make themselves feel better. I don't know who's
22:28
Speaker 3: feeling better about that quote fact that they throw around.
22:31
Speaker 2: Beck.
22:32
Speaker 3: A recent study of Australian school students found no major
22:35
Speaker 3: differences between males and females in factors motivating their career aspirations,
22:40
Speaker 3: and women are now surpassing men in terms of post
22:43
Speaker 3: school education achievements. And when it comes to confidence, it
22:47
Speaker 3: is true that men generally report strong confidence in their
22:50
Speaker 3: capabilities compared to women, and higher levels of confidence are
22:54
Speaker 3: linked to higher pay, which I'm not surprised about, but
22:58
Speaker 3: it does give me the ick. And that's why we
23:00
Speaker 3: always talk about and we've talked about it on this
23:02
Speaker 3: show before. I've told you a million times that men
23:05
Speaker 3: are likely to just go for a job if they
23:07
Speaker 3: meet like sixty percent of the criteria and they're like, yeah,
23:09
Speaker 3: I give it a crack. And women are like, no,
23:11
Speaker 3: if I don't meet one hundred percent of the criteria,
23:13
Speaker 3: couldn't possibly apply. And it just get out there, put
23:17
Speaker 3: your foot out there and say I'll give it a crack,
23:19
Speaker 3: no worries. But there is no economic evidence whatsoever beck
23:23
Speaker 3: that higher confidence actually makes a worker a more productive
23:26
Speaker 3: and valuable member to that company. It's actually quite the opposite, really,
23:32
Speaker 3: because an over confident person can be a little bit
23:35
Speaker 3: more of a liability for a company through reckless decision
23:39
Speaker 3: making and maybe not listening as much as they could
23:42
Speaker 3: because they think that they're so smart and often too
23:45
Speaker 3: there's greater risk that women who show assertiveness and ambition
23:49
Speaker 3: will be perceived disfavorably. I guess think of how women
23:53
Speaker 3: managers are often stereotypically viewed as too pushy and too bossy.
23:56
Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes me sad.
23:58
Speaker 3: I have grown up beings like being told I was
24:02
Speaker 3: bossy or pushy, too forward, or to this or to that,
24:06
Speaker 3: and you're not to anything, thank you, honey. But it's
24:10
Speaker 3: really disheartening because I know, just on reflection, that little
24:15
Speaker 3: boys who had the same behavioral traits as me would
24:18
Speaker 3: be you know, oh, he's going to be a good
24:20
Speaker 3: leader one today. And it's just it's so ick because
24:23
Speaker 3: I never got those conversations. I just got the conversation
24:26
Speaker 3: of always being told I was too much of something,
24:28
Speaker 3: and it's like too much of what? Because that, to
24:31
Speaker 3: me is ridiculous.
24:32
Speaker 1: That is ridiculous.
24:33
Speaker 5: If you were you know, we were speculating here, But
24:35
Speaker 5: if you were a little boy, I can imagine that
24:38
Speaker 5: everyone would have been like, what a confident and bright
24:41
Speaker 5: young man.
24:41
Speaker 3: I can't believe he goes and does this. It's insane
24:44
Speaker 3: how much gender stereotypes play into it. Saying that that
24:48
Speaker 3: was never my parents. They never told me that that
24:50
Speaker 3: was my school experience, which is why I'm here now.
24:53
Speaker 5: Amazing, thanks mum. So I probably know the answer to this,
24:57
Speaker 5: But how about just asking for a Oh what.
25:00
Speaker 3: A good idea, Beck, Just march into your boss's office
25:03
Speaker 3: and be like, do you know what it's? Talking to
25:04
Speaker 3: my mate? She earns way more than me. Could I
25:06
Speaker 3: have a pay rius? It's gonna work? Okay, no, it's
25:10
Speaker 3: actually not. But it's now been shown that Australian women
25:13
Speaker 3: ask for a pay rise just as often as men,
25:16
Speaker 3: which we love. That's amazing, But you know what's really trashy.
25:21
Speaker 3: Oh no, they're less likely to get it. Oh so gross.
25:24
Speaker 3: Adding bonuses and allowances, which are often negotiable components, the
25:29
Speaker 3: gender gap in total remuneration then widens further because don't
25:33
Speaker 3: forget those statistics that we were throwing around before of
25:35
Speaker 3: the ninety three hundred and nine and the sixteen thousand
25:39
Speaker 3: and eighty seven dollars are just base salary. They're not
25:41
Speaker 3: the car and the negotiated kind of benefits that come
25:45
Speaker 3: with that. Often, in addition to all of that, it's
25:48
Speaker 3: the subtle influence of unconscious bias that makes businesses lean
25:52
Speaker 3: towards men for senior roles and then reward them with
25:55
Speaker 3: higher pay.
25:56
Speaker 1: Ah, how good, Just so good.
25:58
Speaker 3: This has just been a really lifting episode. I feel
26:01
Speaker 3: really empowered as a woman in a leadership space. Yeah,
26:05
Speaker 3: but it's also really important to talk about, right, Like,
26:08
Speaker 3: if we're not talking about this and we're not getting
26:10
Speaker 3: upset about this, nothing is going to change. And after
26:13
Speaker 3: going through COVID, so pre COVID, we did an episode
26:16
Speaker 3: and we were talking about, you know something similar. I
26:19
Speaker 3: think we did a whole episode on the gender pay gap,
26:21
Speaker 3: because these statistics come out every single year like clockwork,
26:24
Speaker 3: and we need to keep talking about them. But pre COVID,
26:27
Speaker 3: the amount of time it would take to reach gender
26:30
Speaker 3: pay equality was going to be one hundred and fifty years.
26:32
Speaker 3: And at the time I was horrified because I was like,
26:35
Speaker 3: that's one hundred and fifty years. It's not even going
26:37
Speaker 3: to happen in my lifetime, let alone my future children's lifetime.
26:40
Speaker 3: Like this is cooked. And then COVID happened and pegged
26:43
Speaker 3: us back, and it's now two hundred years back. Oh no,
26:46
Speaker 3: it's literally the worst I thought it was going to
26:49
Speaker 3: be last year. It's even worse because think about what
26:52
Speaker 3: happened during COVID childcare centers. Yes, I see schools closed,
26:59
Speaker 3: and the responsive ability of that actually ended up falling
27:02
Speaker 3: on usually the women in the relationships, because men were like, no, sorry,
27:06
Speaker 3: got to do my job, and yeah, oh, don't start me.
27:10
Speaker 3: Do not start me on that concept of babysitting your
27:13
Speaker 3: own children. You do not babysit your own children. So
27:16
Speaker 3: you are actually parenting because you're a parent, you're their father.
27:19
Speaker 3: Their father doesn't babysit. Their father actually parents when the
27:23
Speaker 3: other parent is unable to be there. Oh, don't start me.
27:27
Speaker 2: I know.
27:28
Speaker 1: I actually could go on and on and on about that.
27:30
Speaker 3: I hate it. I remember I used to work with
27:32
Speaker 3: someone who I would go, oh, what are you up
27:33
Speaker 3: to this weekend? Xyzed and they'd be like, I've got
27:36
Speaker 3: a babysit the kids, and I would bite his head off.
27:38
Speaker 3: In your book, boys gresive on this, I'd be like,
27:40
Speaker 3: because they're your kids, Yes, you made them, You made them,
27:43
Speaker 3: that is your responsibility. Babysitting implies that you shouldn't really
27:48
Speaker 3: have to do it, or you should be remunerated for it. Yes, no,
27:51
Speaker 3: you hire a babysitter when you and your partner go out. Oh,
27:55
Speaker 3: don't even don't even wait until I have kids. Everyone's
27:58
Speaker 3: in trouble.
27:59
Speaker 1: Oh I'm very excited for that.
28:01
Speaker 5: So what can employers do to make a workplace for
28:04
Speaker 5: gender equal A heap of things.
28:06
Speaker 3: So organizations need to be, from my perspective, way more
28:10
Speaker 3: transparent about current rates of pay, salary bands, and what
28:13
Speaker 3: items can actually be negotiated for. So, for example, you
28:16
Speaker 3: could negotiate more paid parentally, flexible hours, remote working, you
28:21
Speaker 3: could actually set different targets. I think it's worth mentioning
28:24
Speaker 3: here as well that pay secrecy last year became illegal
28:27
Speaker 3: in Australia and that makes my heart sing love. So
28:31
Speaker 3: if you're looking at your contract and anywhere in your
28:34
Speaker 3: contract it says you're not allowed to discuss that with
28:37
Speaker 3: your coworkers, that clause is now void. That doesn't exist,
28:41
Speaker 3: and it doesn't matter if your employer told you you
28:43
Speaker 3: can't do it. It is illegal for them to tell
28:46
Speaker 3: you you can't do that, and you can talk about
28:48
Speaker 3: your salary as much as you like. In saying that,
28:51
Speaker 3: I would from my perspective proceed with caution because obviously,
28:55
Speaker 3: as much as it is illegal, you don't really want
28:58
Speaker 3: to get your business off side and then compromise your
29:01
Speaker 3: role unless you are really passionate about it or want
29:05
Speaker 3: to do it. So I'm not saying go and just
29:06
Speaker 3: start talking about it, like obviously we need to slowly
29:10
Speaker 3: go into that conversation and maybe work towards having those
29:13
Speaker 3: clauses removed from the contracts and then maybe having more open,
29:15
Speaker 3: honest conversations in general. But yeah, I just don't want
29:19
Speaker 3: anyone in our community to be like, oh my gosh,
29:21
Speaker 3: Victoria said I could do it now because it's not illegal,
29:23
Speaker 3: and then you know, my boss fired me for something
29:25
Speaker 3: else and I think it was do you know what
29:27
Speaker 3: I mean? Like, I just don't want anyone to get
29:28
Speaker 3: in trouble with it, because as much as it is illegal,
29:31
Speaker 3: it doesn't mean it's not happening. Yeah, another thing that
29:34
Speaker 3: companies can do is do a pay gap analysis and
29:37
Speaker 3: then take action on the findings. I feel like there
29:40
Speaker 3: are a lot of businesses that bury their heads in
29:42
Speaker 3: the sand about this because they know that they're not
29:44
Speaker 3: doing the right things. And I've heard it a million times,
29:47
Speaker 3: Like in the position that I have in the She's
29:49
Speaker 3: on the Money community, I'm so grateful for the conversations
29:52
Speaker 3: I have, but I'm often so heartbroken when someone comes
29:55
Speaker 3: in and they're like, oh, I do this job, Victoria,
29:57
Speaker 3: and I don't know how to approach it. But I
29:59
Speaker 3: was talking to my a male colleague the other day
30:01
Speaker 3: and they're on thirty thousand dollars more than me and
30:03
Speaker 3: I trained them, and I'm like, oh, that is honestly awful,
30:06
Speaker 3: and I cannot believe that management lets that happen. Like,
30:10
Speaker 3: if you're somebody that lets that stuff happen, the buck
30:12
Speaker 3: stops with you, And it's actually not on that other
30:15
Speaker 3: person to advocate more for their own salary. It's actually
30:19
Speaker 3: on you to make sure that equality exists in your workplace.
30:22
Speaker 3: And then another thing I think businesses should be taking
30:25
Speaker 3: into consideration is paid family and domestic violence leave. So
30:28
Speaker 3: in recent developments, employees of non small business employers can
30:32
Speaker 3: now access ten days of paid family and domestic violence
30:36
Speaker 3: leave in a twelve month period, and employees of small
30:38
Speaker 3: businesses can access that leave from the first of August
30:41
Speaker 3: twenty twenty three. It's amazing, which is really awesome, Like
30:44
Speaker 3: that is a really good step in the right direction,
30:46
Speaker 3: And what can we do as individuals. We can do
30:49
Speaker 3: more than you think we can do. And from my perspective,
30:52
Speaker 3: the most important step we can take is to recognize
30:54
Speaker 3: that the gender pay gap does actually exist in the
30:57
Speaker 3: first place. And then, as we were saying before, and
31:00
Speaker 3: I got a little bit heated before about the babysitting comment,
31:02
Speaker 3: but I think we need to look at language comments
31:04
Speaker 3: like my husband's babysitting how amazing? Like no, no, we
31:08
Speaker 3: don't celebrate minimum chips, do we like? No?
31:11
Speaker 1: No, no no.
31:12
Speaker 5: And it's also important, I guess, to think about how
31:15
Speaker 5: we see women as really good mothers spending and devoting
31:19
Speaker 5: and all this time to their children and staying home
31:21
Speaker 5: instead of working, et cetera. But when we see men
31:24
Speaker 5: do that generally we kind of say, oh, what an
31:26
Speaker 5: amazing so wow, but it really should just be the norm.
31:31
Speaker 5: And that way, you know, men can stay home as
31:34
Speaker 5: a stay at home father, and those kind of things
31:36
Speaker 5: can kind of open up a little bit more.
31:37
Speaker 3: Yeah, one hundred percent. I was actually talking about this
31:40
Speaker 3: with a friend the other day, and we were talking
31:42
Speaker 3: about the division of labor between the parent who is
31:44
Speaker 3: the breadwinner and the parent who stays at home to
31:46
Speaker 3: do the childcare, and the interesting fact that often it
31:51
Speaker 3: falls on the parent that is the childcare to actually
31:54
Speaker 3: do things twenty four to seven. So one parent goes
31:57
Speaker 3: and does a forty hour work week, and the parent
32:00
Speaker 3: does the forty hour work week, but then also is
32:02
Speaker 3: in charge of appointments and making lunches and doing absolutely
32:05
Speaker 3: everything and making sure that the laundry is done and
32:07
Speaker 3: making sure that dinner's on the table when their partner
32:09
Speaker 3: gets home and all of this other stuff above and beyond.
32:12
Speaker 3: So the paid parent that brings home money is actually
32:16
Speaker 3: in a position where they only work forty hours a week,
32:18
Speaker 3: and then they think that the time outside of that
32:20
Speaker 3: forty hours is their time because their partner stays home
32:23
Speaker 3: to look after childcare. But the fact is when you
32:26
Speaker 3: come home from work, the childcare actually becomes a shared
32:30
Speaker 3: task and those appointments need to be made by one
32:33
Speaker 3: of the parents. In the laundry is actually both parents responsibility,
32:36
Speaker 3: and dinner could be both parents responsibility. And I think
32:39
Speaker 3: this division of labor of assuming that if women are
32:42
Speaker 3: in the home, in the home twenty four to seven,
32:44
Speaker 3: and they need to always be switched on, no, no, no,
32:47
Speaker 3: Like if you're going to work for forty hours a week,
32:49
Speaker 3: there is a childcare job that is happening in your
32:52
Speaker 3: home for forty hours a week. The rest of it
32:54
Speaker 3: is shared. And I think that it's really interesting because
32:57
Speaker 3: that's not how you know. I didn't grow up with
32:59
Speaker 3: a stay at home parent, but that's stereotypically how you
33:02
Speaker 3: assume the stay home parent works. Right, they're just twenty
33:05
Speaker 3: four to seven mum taxi right, Absolutely disgusting. That is
33:08
Speaker 3: not the case.
33:09
Speaker 1: They're not meant to switch off for giving them entire live.
33:12
Speaker 3: Absolutely no. So, as we were saying before, we don't
33:14
Speaker 3: celebrate minimum chips. But also the other thing we can
33:18
Speaker 3: do is keep an eye out. We're obviously very very early,
33:20
Speaker 3: but Equal Payday is the twenty ninth of August. Talk
33:23
Speaker 3: about it with your friends, your family, your coworkers. Get
33:26
Speaker 3: into your HR's diary early to make sure that we're
33:29
Speaker 3: talking about it on that day. Because I feel like
33:31
Speaker 3: Equal Payday sneaks up on us each and every single year,
33:34
Speaker 3: and so many people say, I wish I'd known about
33:36
Speaker 3: this sooner so I could have done something with work.
33:38
Speaker 3: Now's the time to peg it in HR's diary so
33:40
Speaker 3: they don't forget.
33:41
Speaker 5: I love that I didn't actually know that existed.
33:44
Speaker 3: But Equal Payday, Yes, celebrate we're going to get it
33:47
Speaker 3: one day, hopefully not in two hundred years, hopefully much
33:50
Speaker 3: sooner than that.
33:50
Speaker 1: Hopefully we'll see it.
33:51
Speaker 3: Unfortunately, Becka, I think that's all we have time for today.
33:54
Speaker 1: Well, I'm going to go put that in my calendar.
33:56
Speaker 5: Let's go talk to our friends and family about this
33:59
Speaker 5: bloody end of paygap.
34:00
Speaker 3: Don't even I end up in arguments, so I'm not
34:02
Speaker 3: going to do that. But you're more than welcome to
34:04
Speaker 3: am I good?
34:05
Speaker 1: Cry?
34:05
Speaker 4: Yeah?
34:06
Speaker 3: Okay? Well, as always, if you're not crying, we would
34:08
Speaker 3: love it if you joined our Facebook group, where our
34:10
Speaker 3: community shares money tips and tricks every single day, free
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Speaker 3: aus We're on TikTok as well as She's on the Money.
34:23
Speaker 3: And don't forget to rate, review, or subscribe on whatever
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Speaker 3: platform you are using. We will see you guys on Friday.
34:30
Speaker 1: Bye.
34:36
Speaker 4: The advice shared on She's on the Money is general
34:39
Speaker 4: in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She's
34:43
Speaker 4: on the Money exists purely for educational purposes and should
34:46
Speaker 4: not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision.
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