Latest / The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten / Why Men Ask For Divorces

Transcript

Why Men Ask For Divorces · The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten

• 0:04
  Hi everybody, and welcome to this episode of the doctor.
• 0:09
  Psych mom show today, I'm going to be talking about when
• 0:14
  relationships and why do men leave?
• 0:17
  So, I can also talk about why do women leave?
• 0:21
  But from my clinical experience, I've seen that there are
• 0:25
  specific sorts of variables that lead each gender to want to
• 0:31
  divorce. Divorce is very hard.
• 0:32
  So when people finally, Get to the point that they want a
• 0:36
  divorce. There's usually a lot of water
• 0:38
  under the bridge and there are some fairly flagrant issues and
• 0:43
  what constitutes a flagrant issue is going to really, you
• 0:48
  know, be unique to the person. But also I've seen patterns
• 0:53
  emerge with gender. So the first reason oh and by
• 0:58
  the way, of course, I don't know if you've heard this statistic
• 1:01
  but it's true, women initiate more divorces.
• 1:05
  Then men do. So if you know, there's some
• 1:07
  Syria type of men move it on quickly to the, you know, hotter
• 1:10
  younger that doesn't happen as much as people think, in fact,
• 1:13
  women initiate, I think it's like either two-thirds or
• 1:17
  three-quarters of divorces. So in a situation that is rare,
• 1:22
  that a man will leave, then it has to be pretty bad.
• 1:26
  From what I see and this is for multiple reasons.
• 1:30
  One, big one is that at least historically men did not get as
• 1:33
  much custody as women. So if they wanted to remain part
• 1:37
  of their children's lives, they had to stay married.
• 1:40
  Also when men were, I mean, men still usually are the primary
• 1:45
  Breadwinner, but they used to be almost always the primary
• 1:49
  Breadwinner and the higher earner.
• 1:51
  And in that case they would feel that they may have a huge
• 1:54
  financial disincentive to get divorced and that they would
• 1:59
  really be taken for all their money, Etc.
• 2:02
  And this fear stopped men from My initiating divorces
• 2:06
  frequently nowadays when people make a lot of often close to the
• 2:10
  same salary with in marriages, this is not as big of a reason.
• 2:15
  In fact there's usually not even alimony in many with many of the
• 2:18
  people that I work with because they both make about the same
• 2:22
  thing or one partner waves alimony, you know, and really
• 2:26
  it's just about child support. Divorce is now a very
• 2:28
  child-centered which is positive.
• 2:30
  I like child-centered divorces. Don't like child centered
• 2:33
  marriage is so that is Pickle. But it really does mean a
• 2:37
  different thing by child-centered and divorce.
• 2:39
  I mean, that people are putting the needs of the child first by
• 2:41
  child, sundered and marriage. I mean, people are kind of
• 2:43
  obsessed with the children to, you know, a fault and they fail
• 2:48
  to prioritize their own intimate relationship.
• 2:50
  But anyhow, that was a little tangent.
• 2:53
  But let's go back to why men? Leave women.
• 2:56
  So the first reason that I've seen men, leave Women Within
• 3:00
  marriage is anxiety over time if on Treated anxiety is a real
• 3:06
  killer to a marriage or a really to anybody's sanity.
• 3:13
  You know, if you are with somebody who is extremely
• 3:17
  anxious about safety about health, about the children about
• 3:22
  whether or not they're being approved of socially, you know
• 3:25
  just everything. Then this can really weigh
• 3:29
  heavily on on the marriage and it makes things seem really not
• 3:34
  Fun. And if some of my female
• 3:38
  listeners are like, well, the whole marriage supposed to be
• 3:40
  fun for nothing's really fun. You may be one of these people,
• 3:43
  right? So think deeply marriage is
• 3:45
  supposed to be fun, you know? I mean, nobody here, I do not
• 3:50
  think is Living Through The Great Potato Famine or whatever.
• 3:54
  That's listening to the doctor. Psych mom show on Spotify.
• 3:57
  So yeah, marriage is supposed to be fun, not every day, but also
• 4:01
  not never. So if a woman who thinks that
• 4:04
  Everything is a danger and everything is difficult and
• 4:08
  everything needs to be worried about is coupled with a man who
• 4:11
  doesn't think this over time, the man may find it so aversive
• 4:16
  that he leaves also very frequently, men.
• 4:19
  Worry that their, that their children are going to be anxious
• 4:24
  like their mothers. So if the woman is constantly
• 4:28
  anxious, and spiraling out with anxiety over everything, then he
• 4:32
  fears that his children will be, Us and specifically for men,
• 4:36
  this is usually thought to be very bad, especially for a male
• 4:40
  child, you know, you would want a son and I'm not saying this is
• 4:45
  right or wrong. I'm just saying, socially men
• 4:47
  seem to want their sons to be courageous, and to, you know,
• 4:53
  confront danger, whether that's a ball in sports, or whether
• 4:58
  it's somebody, you know, insulting them, they don't want
• 5:02
  the child to be scared of those things.
• 5:04
  Nobody wants their daughter to be scared of anything either.
• 5:06
  But men, obviously identify more with small male children AKA
• 5:11
  their sons. So, anxiety is a really big one,
• 5:15
  and it kills, a lot of the tone of fun and romance in the
• 5:19
  marriage, as well as men worried, that this is being
• 5:22
  passed on to their kids and then they think if I'm in a different
• 5:26
  house, then I can have a less anxious lifestyle, to show to my
• 5:31
  child. And in our house, it'll be more
• 5:33
  fun and things. These won't be so rigid.
• 5:37
  All right. So that's one the other time
• 5:40
  when I see men, leave marriages is sex when they're not having
• 5:43
  any, they were having no sex or the sex is terrible.
• 5:47
  And particularly, when the woman doesn't do anything to fix this
• 5:51
  and kind of condescends to the very idea of sex, being a
• 5:56
  problem and would say things like our marriage is more
• 5:59
  important than just sex like well, do you know why do you
• 6:02
  just care about that? So, those sorts of things over
• 6:06
  time, really a road, any hope at intimate connection, and at that
• 6:09
  point, a man really doesn't want to remain married, because he
• 6:13
  doesn't feel married in the first place.
• 6:15
  Because men, equate marriage with physical affection, and
• 6:18
  intimacy. And somebody that doesn't think
• 6:20
  that you're disgusting. So, whatever your personal
• 6:22
  feelings that is what the average, man, or a person with a
• 6:25
  love language of touch. Feels about marriage.
• 6:29
  The next reason that men leave is because they do know they, no
• 6:34
  longer feel that their wife likes them.
• 6:37
  So they feel that the wife is not nice to them and frequently
• 6:42
  I'll see this couples counseling, they're not crazy.
• 6:46
  You know, the wife is angry resentful bitter.
• 6:49
  She could have her reasons and she doesn't really like him
• 6:53
  anymore. So this goes beyond that she's
• 6:56
  not having sex with him to that. She just seems contempt Newest
• 6:59
  of him, whenever he speaks she thinks he's an idiot and she
• 7:02
  makes that clear even non-verbally to the children,
• 7:05
  sometimes verbally to the children.
• 7:07
  So a lot of men, you know, have an epiphany that they do not
• 7:10
  want to spend the rest of their lives with somebody who doesn't
• 7:13
  think you're very smart, doesn't think that they're funny,
• 7:15
  doesn't think anything really positive about them at all?
• 7:18
  And doesn't like them. So, I see this very frequently
• 7:24
  in couples where there is husband, an empathic rupture a
• 7:27
  time where the woman felt that Man should have been there for
• 7:30
  her and he wasn't and then she just never got over it.
• 7:33
  Which is why I will link you to an article.
• 7:35
  I wrote about empathic ruptures, it's kind of important to figure
• 7:39
  that stuff out before it ends up poisoning your marriage as a
• 7:42
  whole and leading to either you or your husband leaving.
• 7:47
  And the final one is, of course, the most controversial because
• 7:52
  it's about looks. So, while it is very true and I
• 7:57
  stand by this because I see it all the time.
• 7:59
  Time that the average man doesn't really care about the 10
• 8:02
  15 pounds. That the Wife puts on there is a
• 8:06
  difference between not caring in the context of all of those
• 8:11
  other things being good and then not caring in the context of all
• 8:14
  of those other things not being good.
• 8:16
  So, if the overall marriage is not great, then frequently, the
• 8:21
  man will really bemoan the loss of, you know, what he thought of
• 8:26
  as somebody attractive to him. Because of, whether it's a lot
• 8:32
  of weight gain or aging or whatever else.
• 8:36
  So this especially happens, if a man has become more physically
• 8:40
  fit over time, and his wife has become less physically fit than
• 8:44
  frequently. They do not feel that they are
• 8:46
  concordant on their values of physical fitness.
• 8:50
  In addition to just not feeling as attracted to the person.
• 8:53
  So if they want to go out and run or bike, and the wife is
• 8:56
  sitting on the couch, this doesn't work.
• 8:59
  Now before anyone gets up in Arms, by the way, women in, on
• 9:03
  this regard, their shallower than men in my experience
• 9:07
  because I have so many women that come in and are like, oh my
• 9:10
  God, all he does is sit on the couch.
• 9:13
  Oh my God, I'm gonna die. He is so much fatter now than he
• 9:17
  ever was. Doesn't he realize what?
• 9:19
  He looks like? And a lot of women say, stuff
• 9:21
  like that, and if you don't think so, you're crazy because
• 9:25
  women are just as shallow as a man, and I write about that in
• 9:28
  my Article non-pc things that couples counselors know.
• 9:32
  So I could link you to that as well.
• 9:34
  But in general, if all else is good, then any sort of
• 9:40
  difference in Fitness isn't, you know, a big enough deal.
• 9:43
  If all else isn't really that good, then that can be the straw
• 9:47
  that broke the camel's back. That makes men want to leave
• 9:50
  particularly when they feel again that the values don't
• 9:54
  align, they want to take hikes for multiple hours, the wife
• 9:57
  only wants to watch movies It usually work.
• 10:00
  So if you recognize yourself in your marriage, having any of
• 10:05
  these risk factors, it would be a good thing to do to get into
• 10:10
  couples. Work to figure out whether or
• 10:13
  not. These are sustainable grievances
• 10:17
  or whether one of them is just going to metastasize into like a
• 10:20
  cancer that eats up your whole relationship and then your
• 10:22
  husband walks out or you walk out.
• 10:25
  So you don't want to let things go when they are along the Line.
• 10:29
  So if you are husband has always been saying to you.
• 10:32
  You're so anxious. You're so anxious around the
• 10:34
  kids. You're going to give them a
• 10:35
  panic attack. You know, what is with you?
• 10:38
  This is not just him kind of talking, he made deeply feel
• 10:43
  that you are level of anxiety, is really difficult to be around
• 10:47
  and it's even harmful for the children.
• 10:50
  So similar with all of the other ones that I said, so sex many
• 10:56
  men will complain about sex isn't just something dies do Do
• 10:59
  and then like it just goes away for every time a man complains
• 11:04
  about sex there's like cockroaches, there's a hundred
• 11:07
  more in the walls for everyone. You see there is a hundred even
• 11:10
  a thousand more thoughts about being sad, resentful lonely and
• 11:15
  bitter about not having that physical connection for every
• 11:20
  little comment that he makes, he's thinking it a million more
• 11:24
  times, so that would also be wand to fact-check right now.
• 11:29
  With your husband, like to say, you ever think about leaving
• 11:33
  this marriage, because we don't have as much sex as you want.
• 11:36
  And he'll be like, no, well, no, well, you know, it'll go back
• 11:41
  and forth. That's not a good sign, right?
• 11:43
  That is a sign that you really ought to take things a little
• 11:46
  bit more seriously. Right.
• 11:48
  And similarly with all of the other ones, if your husband has
• 11:52
  said, you know, you really act like you hate me all the time.
• 11:55
  Why do you seem like you dislike me so much?
• 11:58
  Do you even In like me at all. Etc, etc.
• 12:01
  This is not just talking to talk.
• 12:04
  This is the genuine concern of somebody who feels like their
• 12:07
  spouse cannot stand them. Nobody wants to feel like that
• 12:11
  but yet many men and couples counseling that I see feel
• 12:14
  exactly that way. And if you are now if you're a
• 12:20
  man who's listening to this, which half of my readers are
• 12:22
  men, and so, that's great. Thank you guys.
• 12:26
  Actually, more of my listeners are men than my readers.
• 12:29
  I got like a majority of female readers and some loyal male
• 12:33
  readers, but then on this podcast, it's more evenly split,
• 12:37
  maybe men, just like podcasts. But anyhow, if you are a man and
• 12:41
  one or many of these resonate with you about your own
• 12:44
  marriage, then it's kind of time to More direct and to say
• 12:49
  something about, at least the first three could also try to
• 12:53
  stay. One about the fourth about that,
• 12:55
  you know, she's not as physically fit as she used to be
• 12:57
  but that is, you know, very dangerous territory.
• 13:01
  I would like everybody to be. So you know, securely attached
• 13:04
  that they would be able to say things like that to one another
• 13:07
  and but you know it's kind of not that way.
• 13:10
  It was specially women get very they take it very personally.
• 13:14
  If they are thought to be fat this is lifetime of
• 13:17
  Socialization. So while a man can tolerate
• 13:21
  frequently being told by his wife, all you gain, 10 pounds,
• 13:24
  you know over Thanksgiving. If that man comes back and says
• 13:27
  it to his wife, that can frequently lead to a much bigger
• 13:31
  fight because she takes her weight as something very
• 13:35
  personal about her. It means that she's a good
• 13:38
  attractive lovable person. I wish that women thought more
• 13:43
  like men do about their weight. A man is like, Men now,
• 13:48
  actually, with the with popular media, with social media,
• 13:52
  everybody saying that men ought to be so handsome and so
• 13:55
  good-looking. I mean, did you ever really
• 13:57
  compare in movies as an actor without his shirt on in the 70s
• 14:01
  to like an actor without a shirt on now?
• 14:04
  Like now they're like a bodybuilder.
• 14:05
  So and then they were just like a normal guy.
• 14:08
  So guys are developing unfortunately the same sort of
• 14:10
  body dysmorphia as women but in my couples who are you know, not
• 14:15
  super young. Although we can pretend that we
• 14:19
  are guys, because everybody is around kind of my age that I
• 14:22
  work with, but guys, usually, tolerate a lot better.
• 14:27
  The idea that their body May gain weight, but they themselves
• 14:31
  are still a smart, you know, funny overall good looking great
• 14:36
  guy. Whereas women, if they feel fat
• 14:38
  than it's like really feels like the end of the world and it
• 14:41
  feels like you are not even worthy person at all.
• 14:44
  Hopefully, women begin to start to feel more like This way of
• 14:48
  depersonalizing any weight gain, but at least the other three,
• 14:52
  the first three, the one where she's too anxious.
• 14:54
  She doesn't have sex with you but she doesn't act like she
• 14:56
  likes you. If you are a man, in one of
• 14:59
  these situations, time is of the essence, your relationships, not
• 15:03
  getting any better by you sitting on your feelings and
• 15:06
  just every so often making a little snipey snarky.
• 15:09
  Remark, that believe me. It's a lot less funny than you
• 15:12
  think. She would.
• 15:14
  She owes it to you owe it to her.
• 15:16
  Her to be very open about anything that could potentially
• 15:20
  lead you one day to leave, right?
• 15:23
  So you don't want to destroy your family for something that
• 15:26
  you've never really verbalized before it's too late.
• 15:28
  So you want to verbalize some of these things, and my podcast my
• 15:36
  site, and a hell of a lot of books and other podcasts.
• 15:39
  And other sites, talk about how to directly communicate and
• 15:45
  directly approach. Pray for anybody else and talk
• 15:50
  in a confident way. And this is what you got to do
• 15:53
  because you you don't want your marriage to be destroyed because
• 15:58
  she actually didn't know how important sex is to you.
• 16:01
  And before you fall off your chair and shocked because you
• 16:05
  think you've made it so clear. I work with people everyday
• 16:09
  where the wife really, genuinely is a smart person in every
• 16:14
  regard, and literally cannot even conceive.
• 16:16
  Conceive of the fact that the complaints that her husband has
• 16:19
  been making for years about sex, where anything, more than kind
• 16:23
  of like a teasing bickering bantering kind of nothing.
• 16:29
  She really cannot even imagine thinking that sex is that
• 16:32
  important. And so she has never taken it
• 16:35
  that seriously when he says anything about it, sex, in
• 16:38
  particular, out of all the variables that I talked about is
• 16:41
  one that women tend to dismiss if they themselves, do not have
• 16:46
  a physical touch. Language.
• 16:47
  And I could link to that a post about women condescending to
• 16:50
  men's, physical touch love language and why that's not
• 16:53
  good. So, anyhow, I hope that this
• 16:55
  episode made you think that is what I intend to do as well as
• 17:00
  to help give you some little prompt for ways that you can
• 17:04
  perhaps address issues in your relationship that are just
• 17:08
  laying there dormant. But at any moment, can strike
• 17:12
  like my son's corn. Snake.
• 17:14
  When it sees a frozen mouth and And it can destroy your
• 17:18
  marriage, right? So just don't leave these things
• 17:21
  to lie because these bitterness has Mount and mount and mounds
• 17:26
  and then one day you could turn into the person whose marriage
• 17:30
  is lost. That didn't have that didn't
• 17:32
  have to go that way. All right?
• 17:34
  So, and I could actually, again, linked to something that I wrote
• 17:38
  about, which divorce is do, and do not need to happen.
• 17:41
  So make sure to check the description for all of these
• 17:43
  links that I always tell you about.
• 17:45
  Some of them are remember to put in Some of them, I don't, sorry.
• 17:49
  But anyway, talk to you guys soon.
• 17:51
  Hope you have a great day.