Latest / The Inner Well Podcast / Dr. Tony Nader: The Power of Caring + Experience Beyond Belief
Transcript
- The Inner Well Podcast: We all contain a space within that when enlivened and nourished will support us with unwavering stability, expansion, and peace of mind. Join us each week as we dive into honest, grounded conversations about transcendental meditation, consciousness, and growth, and what it means to live an integrated life supported by a foundation of creativity and calm. This is the inner world. Welcome back to the Inner Well podcast. This week we have a very special guest joining us. Dr. Tony Nader, MD PhD, is a medical doctor trained at both Harvard and MIT, and is a globally respected neuroscientist and Vedic scholar. Appointed by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi to lead the International Transcendental Meditation Organization. He champions the development of consciousness to awaken higher values, resolve societal conflicts, and help individuals unlock their full potential. So welcome, Dr. Nader, to the Inner Well Podcast. Thank you, Daniel. It's a great podcast. Congratulations on its achievements so far and looking forward to it to be viral and worldwide known. Thank you so much. And for listeners who are meeting you for the first time, how would you describe who you are and what you do and more importantly, what drives you? you presented me already, so in terms of my training and activities, ⁓ I guess you did really ⁓ justice to who I am in that sense. ⁓ of course who am I as a human being, ⁓ you know, is something of a big discussion who we are all, and we are expressions of a field of being, ⁓ a field of consciousness that appears as many but at the source is one. And ⁓ my role in in ⁓ What I see my role right now in life and living and teaching is to make everyone realize exactly that. To know that we are all ⁓ unbounded, infinite in the self, to see and experience who we are in our inner being, which is the ancient wisdom of know thyself taken to its full meaning. You know, people imagine know thyself means Know your qualities, know your shortcomings, so they can you can make a decision about how you would be, what is your life going to be, and how you will live, etc. And not be disappointed. But the true meaning of know thyself is to know that we are the ocean, not just the wave, and that we have a depth within ourselves that can allow us to practically achieve our f desires, fulfill the meaning of our life and in a sense be whatever we can be, develop our full potential. So that's why I write, I teach, I am working with a great ⁓ group of people who are giving the technology and knowledge of how to achieve Once maximum potential. Beautiful. This month's theme on the Inner Well podcast focuses on relationships, both with ourself and that level of consciousness that you're describing, as well as with others. And so what better time to talk about your new book, The Power of Caring? But before we get in depth into the themes of the book, I'd like to talk a little bit about your own journey. So I would love if you can take us back to the beginning. How did you first encounter transcendental meditation and what was your first experience with it like? ⁓ I was looking for something to develop the full potential. I knew that we have more in us than what is usually understood or accepted. You know, I looked into different belief systems. ⁓ I grew up in an environment where There are many, many sects and beliefs and ways of life, you know, f from all all levels and all religions. And ⁓ they all praise human beings as being something grand and great, you know, in every religion. You look at ⁓ you know the Bible, it says humans are made in the image of God. You look at Christianity, it says the kingdom of heaven is within you. ⁓ you look at Islam, even God says in Islam that you are that God is closer to us than our jugular vein, ⁓ and it says that we can consider ourselves as an atom in which the whole universe has folded itself. And you look at Buddhism, Confucianism, the Tao, you see all of this high praise of human being. And in particular in the Vedas, which are not by themselves actually a religion, but that became the Hindu religion in many ways, but the Vedas is a science of life. And it also says that humans are ⁓ in the image of the divine and they are, you know, totality and wholeness is within us. And so I was looking for something more than the physical aspect of, you know, chemicals in the brain and electrical things in the in the activities of the nervous system, which I was feeling at that time was really how our thinking and behavior happens based on physicality and just the physical part, the material part and its complexity and how it's arranged. And then somebody told me You know, you're looking here and there. Why don't you try this simple technique? ⁓ and so I said, Okay, where is it? He said, It's on Bliss Street, ⁓ at the foot of the lighthouse, ⁓ which was I thought, ⁓ very inspiring. You know, there was a street that was called Bliss Street, and they had rented a place at the bottom of a lighthouse for ships to come. It was on the top of the ⁓ you know the the peninsula of where it was and where I learned. So I I like that idea. The foot of the lighthouse on Bliss Street. So I thought it's starting well. So I went there and ⁓ I learned ⁓ transcendental meditation. It was so simple and I got immediately a sense of diving into something that I've never experienced before, ⁓ which is ⁓ absolute rather than relative. So there was the experience of a daily living. Everything is changing, changing all the time. And you know, as we study things, I was, you know, not yet in medical school and I started ⁓ you know, there I was in pre-medical school and everything is changing. You know, that's what we learn from physics, from chemistry. The relative field of life, which is our living, ⁓ hormones, ⁓ body, cells, everything changes all the time. And here I discovered something that never changes. It seemed like one field of pure inner being, just the transcendence, that's what they call at that time, and I still call it like that, to go beyond and to transcend. And so I experienced something so profound. ⁓ that it caught me like, ⁓ there is a dimension in life which is beyond all these beliefs and religious and ⁓ spiritual and physical, which are all great on their level, but there is some experience there that is not theoretical but actual direct experience. So it's a direct experience of something so fundamental that it caught me. And then The more I learned about it, the more I practiced it, the more I saw that it was not just an experience. I discovered that it transforms my ability to concentrate, my resilience to face very complex and difficult situations as a medical doctor being trained in very harsh conditions because there was a civil war and I had to work and be in the emergency room and face all kinds of situations. And yet I was able to maintain my inner stability, even compared to my friends and all that. And so I thought it was really something profound. And yet my interest in medicine and science guided me to research more. But I was mostly interested actually to start searching for the the mind and what is in the mind and how does it work. So I did some psychiatry. ⁓ But and after one and a half or two years I felt it's just for extreme cases of imbalance and I want to know even how the normal people, the so-called normal people, actually think and behave and what we can do for developing their potential also. And so I went from psychiatry into neurology and neuroscience. I thought I'd research, do myself research. On the brain, maybe I discover something new and how things work. And in neurology again, because it is the brain. But at the same time, I was practicing transcendental meditation and I took one year sabbatical and became a teacher of transcendental meditation. And then gradually I ⁓ you know was invited one day after I finished my PhD at MIT in brain and cognitive sciences. And I had at the same time completed ⁓ my training in neurology as a clinical and research fellow at Mass General Hospital. Marishi called me, he was in India. Maharishi is the founder, as you know, of course, of Transcendental Meditation. And I thought I'd go for ⁓ you know, for a week. That would be a great opportunity. I had met him before a few times, but just in general meetings, which were really grand and great. So I was looking forward to seeing him again. And so ⁓ I was a pilot. I had a plane, private plane, I had a house next to the hospital in Boston. I had a car, I had a life, you know. And so I went for one week and he said stay a little longer. So I stayed a little longer. ⁓ and then stay a little more, let's discuss this and that and this. So then I had to call my colleagues and tell them to take my care of my patients. And stay a little more. So I had to call my uncle, tell him to sell the car, sell the plane, and after a while sell the house. And the whole year went by ⁓ thinking I'll be maybe coming back, but then I never went back to science and medicine fully. I did still some, you know, some consultations, some research, but ⁓ I was mostly with this ⁓ calling to work on transcending, which I felt is so good for myself and for all those who learned from me and from others, and the research has shown this. So I saw this is worth kind of spending time on and then the rest is kind of history as you might know or others might know. I I worked with Maharishi for many years. For those of us who never got that opportunity to meet Maharishi, what was he like and how would you describe him? What always comes to mind is even my first meetings with him and for every other meeting, it's his presence his presence fully you can see that he is living the moment 100%. And when the moment is being with you, you feel that you are 100% in his awareness. And that's a great feeling. He was so ⁓ calm, ⁓ loving, attentionate, attention giving, ⁓ caring. and ⁓ present with you that you feel like the whole universe stopped and you are there you are you know you are with him or if you're in a group it's the whole group is with him so he had this tremendous presence which comes from his I guess his inner settled being and deep transcendence and He was funny also. He was amazing. He was always laughing. likes jokes, you know, very subtle ⁓ joking ⁓ but in a in a very nice way. and uplifting and caring ⁓ and listening at the same time and asking for opinion while guiding and you know, being being always I would you know, say in a perfect state of presence and communication and exchange. And he had this ⁓ quality of always finding what would what we used to call the third element, which means if you have two choices and you're thinking that these are the only two choices possible under the circumstance, he would find something that actually satisfies both in an amazing way. So from my perspective, having met, you know, great great scientists, great leaders, worked with Nobel laureates and been around, you know, the top people in in industry and celebrities, etc., ⁓ without disrespect to any one of them, because they were brilliant in their own way, absolutely brilliant, I still felt like he was shining with ⁓ completeness of being at the same time balance intelligence and clarity and care that ⁓ is so holistic that ⁓ I have never met anyone with that caliber of wholeness. Thank you for sharing that. That's such a profound description and I can feel it. How did your relationship with Marishi evolve over the years, and when did you realize the depth of the knowledge that he was passing on to you? It was gradual. It was it was kind of a journey of of wholeness, a journey of bliss, a journey of ⁓ fulfillment, ⁓ always supporting, always uplifting. and I just ⁓ learn to simply ⁓ surrender in a sense but was was keeping my great ⁓ desire to analyze and ask and even be critical if anything I don't understand. And he was always welcoming, ⁓ balanced but polite of course, ⁓ interaction. You know, so you learn how to deal with somebody who is On that level of refinement I would call, and you know, almost like a highly civilized person and refined person. And ⁓ you know, that's that's it you know something you find a lot in in India actually. It's very amazing how people are tolerant and tender and respectful. you know, I got to love that civilization also for its refinement. and behavior and culture. There is a depth behind it. And when you come to set level of ⁓ sophistication in a person like Maarishi, you actually get to learn. So you get to learn, you know, ⁓ how to ask a question, how to ⁓ respectfully even disagree, ⁓ but in a way that is respectful, not in a harsh or rude way or you know too much frontal way. ⁓ And it's cultures in you already this kind of behaviour for yourself and for how to behave with others. ⁓ He was tolerant, you know, for you know mistakes for ⁓ ideas that were not necessarily the best. He knew he was the teacher And he accepted to be the teacher. A teacher guides you. And so if you're not perfect, ⁓ you know, he kind of steers you. and he he has never been one time even harsh with me ever. ⁓ that was very touching. But he knew that it's enough, for example, we're sitting in a meeting, and if I would say something that is not ideal or not so No, no, so refined or so ⁓ polite ⁓ in a sense, you know, it's he would just even look away from you. And if you're in a group and a meeting and he never looks at you, you know that okay, there is something there to adjust, there is something there to reconsider. But that was that was the maximum of ⁓ correction that he would do. Because he would count on the listener to sense things, to experience things from even a subtle change in look or and ⁓ in words ⁓ without being in any way ever harsh or or ⁓ you know strong. But sometimes you know, he was able to be very firm. with many people when they go to extreme. So he had that balance of ⁓ when necessary to correct and to correct firmly, you know, not just to be always nice and always polite and always kind. You know, polite always he is, but sometimes firm firmness was needed and he would be firm. He would really be firm. ⁓ So He had that balance and you would see that when somebody's coming with something that is out of balance, that is based on stress or strain, ⁓ they would kind of be steered and that would help them also to correct. So ⁓ there was this very tender, soft but also firm when necessary, a balanced approach to people and to situations overall. By Maharishi as his successor is an extraordinary thing. How did you process that? it was a big surprise. ⁓ because I wasn't there for any kind of ⁓ taking big responsibility. I was just service in my heart was everything is so fulfilling that if I can contribute to make life better. for a few people even, that would make my life meaningful. And to be able to contribute on a global level ⁓ is tremendous. ⁓ and so ⁓ I was doing it with that perspective. Never in my mind was interested to, you know, become leader or take that responsibility or even more, you know, to the level of being his, you know. continuation or his successor as you mentioned. And so first, you know, he gave me responsibilities gradually. First, he made me president of, you know, some of the open universities we had, or international president of Mahishi University of Management, ⁓ president of Maashi Ayurved University, which was online. And I worked with him a lot on Veda and human physiology. I spent one and a half years actually meeting with him every single day for many, many hours. And some days it was up to sixteen, seventeen hours. And ⁓ it was all so fulfilling ⁓ working on the Vedas, understanding what the Vedas are, how they are organized, how they are structured, what's their ⁓ Contribution and how you know they are in in our physiology as a blueprint of how our body is made and how then we understand the saying that humans were made in the image of God and all of that. So there is just profound fulfillment in terms of my aspirations and understanding and knowledge about consciousness, about life and living, purpose, and and all of these values. So I was just based in that fulfillment that I didn't want to take any responsibility of management or leadership in any sense, because for me it was not my calling in a sense. My calling was knowledge and ⁓ higher values, etcetera. But he trained me like that gradually and one day he called me and had a private meeting with me and he said he wanted to make me the leader and administrator of the whole system that he had created, the transcendental meditation movement. And so ⁓ I was surprised and I thought first, okay, why not? Whatever he likes. I kept saying, you know, I'm not I'm not, you know, expecting anything. I just want to serve and do things. But he kept pressing me for that. And ⁓ Of course I didn't enter I didn't resist too much, but I I expressed my feeling. He kind of had to to convince me. And after that I spent several months actually just in his ⁓ where he was living, ⁓ in the in the Netherlands, and basically isolated from from everyone, ⁓ was a time of r inner reflection. And being inside, I would just talk to him and nobody else for several months, getting teaching from him and learning about many things. And that was ⁓ how it ⁓ became ⁓ established. But the reason that actually ⁓ kind of not shook me but took me to another level of amazement and unexpected unexpected is that he asked me to be the representative of the tradition. So not only a management side, but the representative of ⁓ himself and the tradition, even you know, his teacher, whom we call Gurudev, ⁓ Brahmananda Sarasvati, and their teacher and their teachers through the whole tradition. So he called and in public ways he described that and that was just left me completely ⁓ stunned and in silence and going back to to myself to be ⁓ kind of embodying or embracing or digesting you can say ⁓ this whole ⁓ you know, request from him. Well, I think you have done so with humility and grace and are a profound leader and representative of this tradition. So thank you for accepting that and all that you do to continue to lead this organization and thank you. With people like you, I feel full of hope and sense of success. So let's shift gears a little bit to talk about the your medical background and how that has informed your work with the Transcendental Meditation Organization. Since you trained at Harvard and MIT as a neuroscientist and in medicine, how did that background deepen your understanding of TM? What's this beautiful is ⁓ it has two aspects really and both are wonderful. One is the Quality of the science on an empirical level, which means the experimental studies that show the effects of a mental technique, which is consciousness based, on the physical level of reality. So from the mind, we transform our physiology. We even now have research on epigenetics. That show that even the DNA can be expressing itself or expressed ⁓ differently based on behavior and food and diet and mental attitudes and you know, hormones, immune system, etc. So, how our mind and physiology connect together is very profound. And so that scientific background, scientific Training helped me to be able to discriminate and ⁓ dissect even scientific research and feel how ⁓ the the science actually proves that consciousness is ⁓ playing a very important role and the mind playing ⁓ fundamental roles in our life and living and changes in our physiology and behavior and even on the level of society. So that was one great ⁓ benefit from being a scientist and studying ⁓ physiology and and human behavior and cognitive functions. The other aspect is ⁓ unexpected but very interesting also And that is that the laws of nature actually manifest in different ways, but they are basically the same. So the same laws of nature that manifest as chemistry, as biology, as physics, as even psychology, as human behavior, and even as anatomy and physiology, they are the same fundamental laws. And so when you study the laws from one angle, for example, from physics or from biology or from physiology, you are getting actually acquainted with how life works, how logic works, how the universe works, how the environment works. Although they're not very similar in expression, but you train yourself to think in the way that nature actually thinks, if you like to call nature things, or the way nature organizes itself. And so going deep into one discipline changes us ⁓ and our ability to think properly. For example, people say, why do you have to study such advanced mathematics, for example, or abstract aspects of science? And that is ⁓ because it trains you to think logically, and logically means in accordance with the laws of nature, in accordance with the laws of life. And so that is, I feel, the most important contribution to studying a field in great depth and going into its mechanics. And in this particular case, it helped me to ⁓ work with my rishi into sh seeing how the Vedas Which are expressions of consciousness, which are dynamics of consciousness, are the blueprint of our human physiology, which means our human physiology is made according to the laws of nature. Obviously, this doesn't have to be defended. It's the laws of nature that create anything. So it created our physiology. But those laws of nature are described in the Vedas. in terms of their structure and function, and we find the similarity ⁓ between the two. And so my training in the science and ⁓ biology and and ⁓ physiology helped me to work with Marishi and to seeing the connection between the dynamics of consciousness, which is the Veda And the dynamics and structure of physiology, which is our body, and that led me to add one more if you like, argument to how the reality is and that it is actually based on consciousness. And that was my first book ⁓ in this field. You know, I had other books, of course, before that, but in this Field of consciousness, which is that consciousness is primary. Consciousness is all there is. And that was the title of this book. ⁓ Consciousness is all there is. There was a book before it which is called One Unbounded Ocean of Consciousness. ⁓ And then a more even detailed aspect of consciousness description says that consciousness is a field which appears as matter. And for that I needed Scientific understanding, ⁓ depths of knowledge of natural law, understanding the Vedas, and convergence of different factors from physics, from logic, from empirical experimentation, from philosophy, from systems of belief, from spirituality, that actually allowed me to put together a what I would say. What convinced me most that there is a field of consciousness which is primary and that all what we see as materials or material and physical express are only expressions of that field. Maybe that's a topic which which is ⁓ a little bit more complex to to deal with, but it's I'm I'm glad to actually be able to ⁓ say it. I'm so glad you introduced it. And we've actually talked about making one month the whole theme consciousness and what is it actually and diving into it. So maybe we'll have you back during that to dive much more in depth into that conversation. I look forward. Since we're talking about your books, let's shift gears into talking about your most recent book, The Power of Caring. The book opens with the question, who cares? What was your reason? It's several things that came together that made me write this book and answer this question. ⁓ one of them is I've seen people care too much and being burnt out, getting overwhelmed. You know, during COVID, ⁓ colleagues, doctors, nurses, hospital staffs, they went into depressions and anxiety and ⁓ PTSD and even some, you know, not only insomnia and all that, but some even suicide, which is really hurts ⁓ our feeling that those who are caring and caregivers most are burning out. Another aspect is I see people who ⁓ become avoidant and they have been hurt and therefore They kind of say, Who cares? I don't care anymore, and ⁓ because who cares anyway? And so they become starting to care less and they isolate themselves and maybe even see feel some sense of solitude and and loneliness. And ⁓ there are also the younger generation coming up in the world with ⁓ so much. news from so many places ⁓ that actually favor outrage and algorithms that support problems because that's what gets the adrenaline going and people get interested in this and so they start carrying the whole world on their shoulders and ⁓ they can also get burnt out and feel like as if the whole world is broken. Whereas, you know, few things, yes, are broken. We don't say that everything is perfect, but the whole thing is not broken. And so what is mind to care about? What is the difference between caring and carrying and being overloaded? And also because I know that caring can be a technique by itself to overcome loneliness, to overcome isolation. ⁓ and that it expands the sense of self and well-being. And so all of these things together and many others, ⁓ you know, details of the same, ⁓ they made me feel I should I should address that. And again, one particular thing actually, which is very important, is I get asked the question often because we talk about life and science and spirituality and all of that. So you get to ask the questions like, does the universe care? Is there some force there or some being or something that actually cares? And if it cares, in what way we it cares? And how can we explain, you know, children suffering or people born in situations that are complicated? And should they care? And so All of this, together with are we free to decide or not, or everything is deterministic, led me to say, Well, I should address this question in a book. ⁓ because I wrote the consciousness is all there is as ⁓ the platform of a worldview that explains consciousness. And it's more, you know, it has many beautiful things from my perspective. on the mind and intellectual level and feeling level, but it's mostly analytical and logical, etc. ⁓ I wanted to write something from the heart also about behavior, about feelings, about emotions, about what emotions are, what life is about, what's the purpose, ⁓ do we have to care or not care? And how to care better. And so all of this together made me write the book and then as I was writing, it took me a couple of years to do the full book. ⁓ I you know topics came to mind. For example, you care about children, how you care about ⁓ your love and loss as you have now the I think the the the theme. How do you care when there is separation, when there is divorce, how you care in crisis, how you care ⁓ across political divides, ⁓ you know, and etc., etc. So all the things that we usually care about, but sometimes we say I don't care because we want to protect ourselves because we can't feel vulnerable. So I kind of take a standoffish ⁓ attitude. ⁓ I kind of went into these details, and so that's how the book came out. I think that it is a message That is so timely for today and will really resonate with all that is going on in the world today. And those are such interesting angles to explore. How do you see that transcendental meditation specifically factors into someone's capacity to care and this idea of conscious caring? Yes, ⁓ it's very, very ⁓ central actually, ⁓ because almost every chapter I would say every chapter gives ⁓ guidelines and what I call quick reset, where you kind of reset yourself based on the topic in the chapter. And then there is a takeaway and there is reflection questions, etc. And it really defines all overall caring ⁓ to be something that comes from the inside. That's what I differentiate. Just general caring or empathy and compassion from conscious caring. Conscious caring is something that comes from within. Because ⁓ as I discuss in the book, there is ⁓ there are psychological, philosophical, spiritual, and physiological reasons for caring. We are wired to care as a species, as a human species. And we are wired to care because together we are stronger than an individual by herself or himself. And ⁓ when we face dangers or we face, you know, threats by other species, as individuals we are not so strong necessarily, not strong as a tiger or a lion or some other species throughout history. But together collaborating with each other, feeling for each other, accepting each other, supporting each other, protecting each other, create a group or a tribe, and you know, in evolutionary terms, that is much stronger when they are together. So evolution has supported and ⁓ made more successful those who have more caring in their ⁓ attitude towards others. And so that's why we have this wiring within us. You know, when you care, ⁓ you get oxytocin that's released, that's the bonding hormone. You get dopamine, which is ⁓ reinforcement for repeating the action, serotonin for well being and endorphins and the parasympathetic system is ⁓ in a way very ⁓ actively relaxed and also that means the blood pressure reduce, heart rate, you feel good, you feel stable. So all the feel good and desire to do it again aspects physiologically are wired within us and so carrying is a very natural ⁓ process, a very natural thing within us. And therefore there are ⁓ these physiological factors and then of course all the spiritual factors, etc., that are there. Now, therefore, when we are stressed and strained, then our actions are reflex and they are reacting based on noise, if you like. And then the caring becomes blunted and becomes inappropriate. You respond to the loudest, you respond as a reflex. ⁓ you respond to something it's not yours, yours to do. And so caring becomes an effort, becomes a performance, because there is this sense of moral obligation to care. You have to do it, this is what a good person should do, and that's what you should do. And then you are actually performing rather than acting from a deeper level. So Proper care which is natural to us as humans is awakened when we are less stressed, less strained and have clarity in our thinking. And that's why I say in the in the book that caring is not based on effort, it's based on an inner ground that is stable and then the care flows in a natural way. And so transcendental meditation plays a very fundamental role in that, because it releases the stress and the strain, the fear of the other, the excessive, you know, moral obligation, even to think that I have to do this because like that and like that, and therefore it creates a burden on me, but I have to do it anyway. So we lose the balance between what the body wants, what the mind wants. And how we care in a proper way. So transcendental meditation comes back practically in every chapter to say that if you return to yourself and remove the stress and strain, then caring becomes a natural flow from the inside rather than something that is imposed on you as if from the outside. And so it's very important to To know that ⁓ conscious caring means a caring where there is discernment, there is trust, ⁓ and there is f effortlessness. It comes as something that actually fulfills you, that gives you pleasure, that gives you wholeness. And we know that, as we said, even biologically, through hormonal secretions, etc., and therefore. The book doesn't ask people to care more or to care less. ⁓ It is guiding to care wiser, to care in a balanced way, and to care better. And sometimes to care better means also to care less in certain situations and to care in a balanced way in other situations. And sometimes to care and other situations. So one have to assess what is mine to do and what way can I do it. And ⁓ that is where conscious caring comes, as you know, also different from if you like empathy. I I say that empathy is feeling things and we have mirror neurons that feel things. And sometimes empathy can lead to exhaustion and physiological inflammation and changes. And so empathy feels, compassion feels and sees, and conscious caring effortlessly feels, sees, and acts in an appropriate way. And transcendental meditation is key to have the ability to care in the best possible way. So beautifully explained. If someone is interested in reading your book, where is the best place to find it? There is a site for the book. ⁓ for now for pre-orders. ⁓ it's called the Powerofcaring Book.com. ⁓ I have drtonynader.com as a site for myself. you know what we're doing and and all of that and the book is also there. For a great site for transcendental meditation is tm.org or those who you know are interested in TM can go there and practice caring. Through being more and then caring more. Because the caring means also to care for oneself, and that's a very important aspect of the book. Always as a platform of caring is to have the maximum oneself so that we can give the maximum to others. And of course, you can order the book and all the book ⁓ Sellers, Amazon, Barnes and Noble, and everyone who carries books. Wonderful. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to join us today and congratulations on the new book. I can't wait to dive into it. Well, thank you for doing the the Inner Well ⁓ program. It's very important. ⁓ we're so happy to see you and your colleagues ⁓ expounding knowledge of care. ⁓ from different angles. ⁓ that's what we do. Whatever we do is caring actually. The basic thing is we care to breathe, we care to eat. These are automatic things. And as care expense and as the self expense, care expense to include others and ⁓ community and society and the world and environment and all of that is part of Seeing the self as bigger than just something small and it helps us to overcome isolation and solitude. Remember small acts of care are very important and they rip ripple very far, so don't have to change the world like overnight. Even small acts of kindness carry ⁓ carry ripples ⁓ very far. That's a wrap on today's episode of The Inner Well. Please subscribe and leave a review. Your support means the world and helps others find us. And if this conversation added something to your day, don't be shy. Share it with someone it might resonate with. Also, please follow us on social for more between episodes and send in your questions, your stories, or the topics you'd like to explore with us. We genuinely love hearing from you and this podcast exists because of you. So keep showing up for yourself and we'll see you next week.