Latest / To All the Men I've Tolerated Before / Heated Rivalry

Transcript

Heated Rivalry · To All the Men I've Tolerated Before

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hey everyone, this is Natalie with your pre show reminder
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: that we have revamped our entire Patreon page for twenty
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: twenty six. Now on Patreon, you can enjoy even more
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• 0:36
  Speaker 1: us from a social media mindset. For our paid tiers,
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: you can look forward to even more blog posts written
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: by me about the misogyny in real time I am experiencing,
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: as well as ad free listening and bonus episodes that
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: will report on misogyny within the world, within my own life,
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: media that is confronting misogyny or god forbid, perpetuating misogyny,
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: and some advice that is better served behind a pay
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: wall because we all know how mouthy I can get,
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: so please enjoy this episode and then after the show,
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: go check out all of the things that are posted
• 1:21
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• 1:25
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• 1:28
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• 1:33
  Speaker 1: to help me build a tolerator community. Love you all,
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: Talk to you soon.
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: Still Alderman, I'm tolerated before with Namley Katona, your weekly
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: look at every day misogyny. Huh. Today's a party day
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: because I get uninterrupted time with Curvin from four y Games.
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: You'll remember Curvin from our Diversity in Gaming episode where
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: we talk about his efforts on TikTok and the way
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: he designs his games to promote equality and inclusion in
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: the board game industry, which makes listeners heart happy. But
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: while I love a good board game chat, today we're
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: going to the cottage. Curvin and I are gabbing and
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: hopefully giggling over the mass psychosis event that is heated rivalry.
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: Welcome back, Thanks for having me, and I couldn't be
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: more excited about the topic.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: I'm trying really hard to not do my Ilia impersonation
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: that I do all day long.
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: Fair, it's fair. It's a good one. It's a good one.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I'm like, is a borderlining offensive? How often I'm
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: talking in a Russian accent considering he's not Russian?
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: He said Jackson. He grew up in Odessa. A Carr
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: story is from Texas.
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: I know Sweet Baby Angel before we uh, well, maybe
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: I'll get if anyone is living in there. A rockan
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: doesn't know what Heated Rivalry is. It is the Canadian
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: crave sensation that hit America through HBO Max. They finally
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: did something right besides White Lotus and the pit and
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: and it's about two happy players, Shane and Ilia, and
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: their rivalry on the ice, but most importantly their passion
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: in the sheets. What okay? So what got you to
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: watch Heated Rivalry? Were you waiting for it? I feel
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: like one day I just woke up and my cousin
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: was flowing up my phone to be like, watch this show.
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: So the chiktok fyp knows me really well, Like I
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: got into like that. Whenever they're like, hey, Curvin, I
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: think you should watch this, it's just like NonStop barraging.
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: And so like there were a couple of animes that
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: like I've never seen before and they're like watch this,
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: and I was like bet And then I kept getting
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: like Heated Rivalry things before it dropped or like before
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: I like had HBO Max, Like fine, I guess I'll
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: get it. Just to watch this, and then I found
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: out that one of the main characters was like half Asian,
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: and so I was just like, you know what, for
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: representation purposes, even if it was like whatever, I'll just
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: watch it. And then like twenty seconds in, I was like, oh, shoot,
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: I'm hooked.
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: Oh and then so I had a pretty interesting time
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: with being hooked. I think I got hooked. And we
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: were three episodes in and I watched all three episodes,
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: and I think I misunderstood and thought that they had
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: all dropped at once. So then when it was over,
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: I was like, why would I ever have to wait
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: for something?
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: And I was mad. I tend to binge watch things,
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: so like the fact I had to like watch and
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: wait was really annoying. But I definitely make sure to
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: wake up two hours early from my workday to watch
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: it distans it dropped, because yeah, I need, like, there's
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: no way I was gonna be able to go an
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: entire work day without focusing exactly.
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: And that's how I am about the Traders, because the
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: traders will be spoiled on your FYP, on your Instagram
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: feed the moment that you open your eyes. So I
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: planned my entire first day around traders. But I also
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: I was secretly watching it, Like I was just like,
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: get all cozy in ben and turn off all of
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: the lights and be like time to watch my sons
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: play hockey and do other things.
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: Oh it was over, Like it was over December. I
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: was in Massachusetts and the boyfriend was working, so I like,
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: I like, got really cozy, got my blanket, sipped some coffee,
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: and like, oh no, it was.
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: It was.
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: I like, I have a series called Normalizing for Gay
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: Mornings that if we could normalize like you know, like
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: smut mornings over coffee, I would be perfectly happy.
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: I'm sure there's an audience for that. I will hook
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: you up. What's the correct people to make it happen?
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: I also I didn't tell anyone I was watching it.
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: I would just like watch it and then go to
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: bed and be done with it. And then finally I
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: finished all of it, and that's when I made my
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: TikTok announce saying that I had gone to the cottage
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: and friends were like, why weren't you talking to me
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: about this every week? And I was like it was
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: just like one of those shows that was so good.
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: I knew that anyone talking about it positively or negatively
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: was going to piss me off.
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: That's why I that's that's literally no, no, for real,
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: for real, like as a as like a gay guy
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: who like gay media in the States is awful, right,
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: Like it's like age or like essay or just like
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: coming out out and like ruining your lives, like having
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: something like I was like after the series was done,
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: I just like sat down and realized, like I don't
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: want to learn about the actors. I don't even want
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: to read the books. I just want to sit in
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: this like moment in time where I felt represented and
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: cared about and I could relate to things and in
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: not a forced way, in an authentic way, and just
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: like be because I feel like as a person who
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: like has almost exclusively long distance dated and like hasn't
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: really felt like represented and like finally have like the
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: types of relationships that like made me reflect back on
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: my relationships, Like there's parts of the show that are
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: like pure and innocent despite everything right, and I feel
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: like that's the part that like you never really hear about.
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: And when I think of like when I came out
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: of the closet, when I was in like sophomore year
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: of high school. That's all it was. I just wanted
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: to hold hands and gioggle right like that, like that's
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: really all I wanted. And then four eleven, curven got
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: a six two water polo player who like carried me
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: places and drove me places and ds be it prom
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: and it was just like like and then I think
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: it was like it took me like four months to
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: get my first kiss and it was like fab it
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: was perfect, and I feel like it was so like
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: even now, I try really hard to like block out
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: like learning about Connor story and learning about like, oh
• 8:25
  Speaker 3: my god, what's his name? Williams? Like I'm trying to
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: just like enjoy the moment because a fandom can like
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: change things or people can lead into things, and like
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: I just want to like for as long as I
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: can just be like really happy and feel just like
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: is this what like says had white dudes? I felt
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: their entire lives when except theirs is with guns and
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: shooting things and mine's like holding hands on a couch
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: and the you know what I mean, like or like
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: toes in the cottage, like is this what that feels?
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: Like? Yes? I have to imagine that that is what
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: that feels like I and I think a lot of
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: it was you and I are chronically online, and I
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: was like, we're always online.
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: I tried, I try to hide that from people.
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: Yes, our entire relationship exists online except for a couple
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: of times a year when we're at a con and
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: we see each other at all. Way, But but all
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: of that to say I knew. I was like, I'll
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: get it onto my FIP and I will get straight
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: women a lot of opinions from men. I will just
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: be inundated with opinions, and even if they are the
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: opinions that are shared by me, I just feel like,
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: for right now, I just want it to be my
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: comfort bed smut show. And then I just I just
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: want it to be and then I just like want
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: to lay it down and then it was over, And
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: unlike you, I ran to all the teen Vogue videos
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: of Hudson and Connor because I can't get enough of
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: them and it's not And I told you this when
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: you made a special request and You're like, can you
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: just not talk about their bodies the entire episode? And
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, because I'm not even I can
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: conceptualize that they are good looking men, and they are
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: like perfect specimen of men. However, I'm not attracted to
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: them in a very physical way. I very much just
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: want to like hug them all the time and be like,
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: you're my baby boy, and to Connor, and then to
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: Hudson be like, and you're my chaos gremlin, and then
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: just like put them to bed.
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: Oh, I just want to be best us. In Connor's
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: story that he seems like a blast in the best,
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: like he's like every theater kid who I loved and adored,
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: like happy and cheerful and just like fully committing and
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: like and there's like a switch and he and like
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: when his switch is like, he's so different from his character,
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: Like like his smile is so like I feel like
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: as someone who has what is it they call it
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: non engaged face, because I've a really bad RBF. But
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: when I smile, it's so aggressive to people that I'm
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: so happy. It feels like there's this dichotomy and I
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: feel like that's what he has, because when he smiles,
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: I'm like, WHOA, Like it's so genuine and not his
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: character at all.
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: I I'll have to send you photos for my nephew's
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: first birthday party because I was studying them to people
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: being like, I don't recognize how happy I am in
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: most photo. I was like, this smile, it's at a
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: whole new level and it's only happened like one time
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: before when I went to LA and a lot of
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: long distance friends in person, and it's like, you were right.
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: It's that smile that's so genuine that like it even
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: frightens me when I see myself in pictures with it
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: on and he has it, and I just feel like
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: he's the type of guy who would notice that I've
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: hit a wall at the club and would bring me water.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: He'd be like, Nadly, you need water there, Yeah, for sure,
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: And then Hudson would be like you need to bump
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: and grind more, nadly, And I'd be like they're both
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: technically right, what do I do?
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: But gen Z, people will never understand that, Like that's
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: the one thing that like I didn't even club that hard.
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: I was like an old man my entire life, Like
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: ten o'clock, even I don't even have Borging conventions ten pm,
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: like I'm ready to go, but like I'm there. My
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: face is like I'm here, but like I'm still there
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: if you'd be like, oh, I can't thanks for coming out,
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: like obviously I'm gonna do it like I'm a millennial,
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: like let's go, let's go.
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: I am bumming Rye all night long. Don't win. Uh
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: did you watch the Golden Globes Because every time someone
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: had to walk the mile up to the Golden Globes,
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: they played one of our throwbacks and I was like,
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: I can't listen to Usher and also the speech agreed,
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: no for sure, well, terrible choice.
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: I can't want me to focus and listen, want me
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: to like jam and bomb my head and listen.
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: And then honestly, Noah Wiley let me down because I
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: was like, if anyone's gonna make like a stupid dance
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: up to the podium, it's going to be Noah Wiley
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: to like divert attention for winning. And then he did it,
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: and I was like I would have bumped and grinded
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: onto Harrison board I think on my way up, like
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: I would be like Harrison, like I earned it, for
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: sure earned it. But okay, so now we know how
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: we both kind of fell into it. Because I've now
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: listened to the first book and my controversial take is
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: that the show is better than the books. That's what
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: I feel like.
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: No, I like like as so my degrees in film
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: right like and so like I said, a lot of
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: time in theater and there's just like a lot of
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: there's and it was just so beautifully made and I
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: feel like like you can still have like it's based
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: on the book, but like there's a person on TikTok
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: who goes through like that, like through the each this
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: like specific scenes on like what's in the book while
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: it's in the video and like how it works. And
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: I don't know, like I'm scared to read the book
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: because again, the video, like it was so perfect for me.
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: Why would I try to actively do something that might
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: ruin that well?
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: And do you know what the show layered in that
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: I think I lost what I was listening to the book.
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: So like it's a very sexy, smutty show. Like immediately
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: there's no like will they won't they They're gonna, and
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: the peppered and to these very like taught with tension,
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: hot sexy smutty scenes. There's also like these little moments
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: where you watch their like pride and stubbornness and like
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: their shame crumble a little because they feel safe with
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: one another while also not addressing that they feel safe
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: with one another. And because it's a visual medium, and
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: because of choices that both Connor and Hudson and the
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: director and the intimate scene coordinator Maine, you see it
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: all play out, and like in a book, you don't
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: have time to be like yeah, and then we were
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: railing all night long. But then he like caressed my
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: pinky on the way out, and I felt flutters for
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: the rest of my life. But like on the show,
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: I could see all of it, the underlying just like
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: tenderness and affection, and that's what sold me. It's what
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: got me coming back.
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: That's the thing this is. I don't know, it's controversial day,
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: it's probably a bad take and and I acknowledge that
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: after watching the show. It made me feel bad for
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: women because like I should, because like truly, it's like,
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: you've never had a guy do nice things for you.
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: You never had a guy look at you and like
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: like you're the only person in the world that matters.
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: You've never had someone actively like consume like you consume
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: their entire bandth and like, as a gay man from
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: Texas who has actively prioritized like straight or not, Like
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: you will treat me well, you will talk to me nicely,
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: you will do nice things like you have to earn them.
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: You have to earn the right to do nice things
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: for me, and to like know that, like somehow I've
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: been treated better over the course of my life than
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: like some women have from straight men, like they're they're there.
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: I have like girlfriends are like curvin my like husband
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: treats me badly, you won't ever call me. And I
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: was like, I have straight dudes who call me when
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: they think about me. I have straight dudes who like,
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: without asking, will just like like at a convention, just
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: take all my stuff and just start walking and like
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: and it's because I have enough straight duds in my life.
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: I can just some man stuff. I don't care anymore,
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: but like it. But it genuinely just made me feel
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: sad that like women want that, they're like demanding it
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: the best they can, and they still get treated like trash,
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: Like that's that's that was, especially when they're like, oh
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: my god, that was so cute, Like was it that cute?
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: I mean it was cute, but like to a point
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: where it's just like they yearned for that and they
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: and like I hearned that, but like I feel like
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: I've gotten it, and like it was cute, but like
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: it was, it wouldn't be as cute if I never
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: had a guide the nice things for me.
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: And do you know what's terrible? Every time I thought
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: that I've had that, like oh, he went out of
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: his way to grab me a bottle of water, or like,
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: oh he he went out of his way to make
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: sure that I was like sitting in the shade instead
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: of the sun or whatever. It was just like a
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: long list of small cons that that man was doing
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: to keep me baited. And that's not at all what
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: I was watching on heated rivalry. I was like, they're
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: just doing it to do it. They're not manipulating anyone.
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: And there's been a lot of like conversation around the
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: idea of why women are into men loving men's smut
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: books and a lot and honestly, a friend told me
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: personally years ago, she was like, I read them because
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: there's no weird power dynamic. She's like, you read a
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: lot of hetero smut and it's like he's in charge
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: and he's big, or she's trying to top him, to
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: like assert her dominance because she's never felt powerful before.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: And it's like all of that hierarchy that comes along
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: with misogyny and patriarchy is just like there all the time,
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: and with men living men romances, there's no there's no hierarchy.
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: I heard that, and I also heard there was no
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: women putting in emotional labor to progress the story forward,
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: Ain't that? And then when I heard that, I was
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: just like, like for that to be like a normal
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: like something that like, oh that's different, like breaks my heart.
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: Neither one of them felt the mento babysit one another.
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: When Ilia was like doing check in points with Shane,
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: it was at a very like he actually wanted to know.
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: He was just he was checking in. And when when
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: women are in relationships with men, we have to read
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: all of these subtle clues and honestly, it's a fear response,
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: like it's a trapped response where it's like, okay, he
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: sighed in that way, is he hungering? Is he thirsty?
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: And then you have to like run through the list
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: and then try three or four things. And if you
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: try three things and it's not till the fourth thing
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: that you get it right. He's yelling at you that
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: he's wasted, that you wasted his time or whatever. Now
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: he's frustrated because you didn't meet his need. And it's
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: almost like, yeah, they got to put that down. There
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: was no like running list of like simmering passive aggressiveness
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: that happens in these heterosexual relationships that I've been in,
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: where you're constantly just like guessing, like what are you
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: upset about today?
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: Like there are people who are like that's how I
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: know it's fake, and I was just like I was
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: like I was like mortified, like like as again, like
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: I'm an older game any right, like and as like
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: I I physical touch notoriously and uh with the information
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: are not my love language even remotely. And when I
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: first came out of the closet, like my guy friends
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: would I would like hug them, I'd like, you know,
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: the straight dude tap and I would let go and
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: they were like, oh, you don't like this, do you?
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: And I'm like nope, not even remotely, And they're like
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: you're gonna like this, like you are fine, you are safe,
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: but like I think it's important for you to like
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: and like be okay with the fact that like someone
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: might want to hold me someday and I'm like I
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: can't say no, not that so so I'm just like
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: this really tense for like thirty seconds, and now it's
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: like when I'm super comfortable, apparently I will just sit
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: in a wrap and play with your hair, which is
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: like it's just so like it's just very It's not
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: me at all. But it's the straight dudes in my
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: life who like taught me to like be emotionally aware
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: and like help me form like who I am today,
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: which is like a wild I'm well aware it's a
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: wild statement, but like when they're good ones, they're good ones,
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: and I can't make that.
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: Up, you know, and not in a sexual way, just
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: because like would it be something if I had straight
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: man have them call me, give them my number, Do
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: they want to sit on a zoom call and just
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: be like, Hey, this is what it looks like when
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: straight man are nice.
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: Because because look, because I mean I told you so,
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: Like did you ever meet Matt from MV Bore Games?
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: No, I don't think I didn't.
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: He's one of my I met him online. He's one
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: of my favorite favorite people. But like I remember for
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: gen Con because gen Con is very expensive, and so
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: he was like, hey, like, let's get an airbnb. There's
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: like nine guys there, and I'm like, you want me
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: to be in a house with nine dudes? I guess
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: like for one gen Con, I'll do it. And then
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: I get there, I'm like, Okay, where's where am I at?
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: He's like, oh, you get you get the bed, Like
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: he slept on the couch and gave me a bed
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: because he knows that like I get up early, or
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: like if I give overwhelmed, like I need space, and
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: like I didn't have to act, and I would have
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: been fine with like whatever, because I was two hundred
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: bucks to three hundred dollars for the entire gen Con,
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: but like he literally gave up a bed for me
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: and in the morning, and then I get up in
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: the morning and like, oh, Craven making breakfast for you
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: and everyone. I was like what, like like this is
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: what I like just met. And it's like I don't
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: know if I just have the like be nice to
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: me or like I'll never talk to you again, but
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: people are afraid of it. And honestly, I'm okay with
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: that because I always say, like I need to be
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: upset regardless, So like you might as well know because
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: if a straight dude cares about you, they'll never do
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: it again.
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, isn't that an eye opening statement to all
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: the women being like every time I put up a boundary,
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: he kicks me out of his car.
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: Could you imagine if a guy I working TikTok was like, kurlan,
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: get out of my car. I will look, I will
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: drag you. I won't make a TikTok and I will
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: make you agreed, right but okay, So.
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: Like I will say that as a woman who has
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: a lot of boundaries up and it has a lot
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: of demands on how you will speak and talk to me.
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: I've had more people. I've had more straight men flee
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: or fight me then they have been like, you're right, Hamply,
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: You're right. I know, look at your face. That's what
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: I'm saying. That's why he did Rivalry was for the
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: girls a little bit, I guess, even though that's now
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: the discourse that it was written for women and didn't
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: have gay men in mind at all.
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: Don't get me I mean like it. That's the part
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: that like I'm still struggling with is that like it
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: was made by a woman for women, and yet like
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: and was made for them because they don't get it
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: from like their everyday lives. And this is like some
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: fantasy that like like, oh would be so cool and again,
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: gay dude from Texas, right like if and I know
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: how long it took for me to like love myself, right,
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: and I know, like that's like a ongoing journey for
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: like women as they get older because the change and
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: like circumstance and the whole thing like having a bunch
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: of I might be a straight dude's game. I do
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: have a lot of girlfriends, and it's one of those
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: things where I always tell them was like you're amazing,
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: you deserve amazing, and if you don't think you do,
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: I will yell at them over you because like I'm
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: not putting up with it and I'm sorry that like
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: and but the other side of that is that like
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: I start came out when I was sixteen, and I
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: said I will find love of my life. I will
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: marry him in Texas. And this was like in two
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: like two thousand and four, right before saying sex marriage
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: and all of that, and people are like, you really
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: think you'll ever get married? And I said, I feel
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: it in my bones, like I might be eighty. I
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: might be eighty, but I like it will happen, and
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: I'm willing to like wait, and I've one of my
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: the other half of four Way Games always says that,
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: like my superhero power is that, like people are my everything,
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: and really great people are like attracted to me where
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: I find I find them, and like me, it's really
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: hard to let a good person go because there's so
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: and so if you're able to find a good person
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: who makes you feel special, it makes you do all
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: of the things like I will never be the reason
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: why we're no longer friends and like I don't know,
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: Like I love what heat of rivalry is done. I
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: love that, like, but I don't think it's like raising
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: the bar for women and like that's the part that
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: like I don't know what it would take for like
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: for that.
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well and and you know what, As I was
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: thinking about this episode a couple of weeks ago in
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: the snowstorm, and I was kind of cranky and PM
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: messing and like I'm I am fully like embracing my
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: identity as a queer woman who is no longer attracted
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: to men. And you can't maker. But as a queer woman,
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: I watched the show as a queer woman, so I
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: didn't center myself in their romance, Like I was able
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: to really appreciate the romance between Ilia and Shane instead
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: of making a wish list in my head, if you like,
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm sure like as we were talking, I've
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: been reflecting on my own relationships and whatever. But also
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: I am very aware that I do not I have
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: not received the loving care from them that I should have.
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: And so as a queer woman, my controversy take is
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: that straight women should stop centering themselves in men loving
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: men romances because instead of making a wish list in
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: your head and being like, well, I want to be
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: the Hollander to your Ilia. Now I don't remember story. No,
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: that's Connor's last name. What was Ilia's last nay Rosa nav.
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: Rosy. It's Rosy.
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: It's Rosy because it's almost Romanov. And I was like, oh,
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: someone's an Anastasia Nerdy just like me because it's almost Romanov.
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I like, I have to center myself in
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: their relationship. And I will say that length and this
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: has been an EON's old issue with women feeling so
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: unsafe in the company that they keep with straight men
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: that they start to encroach into queer spaces because they're like,
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: they'll like me here and they won't abuse me, probably,
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: And so I see, I think that we're seeing that
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: a lot with heated rivalry too, where it's like, well,
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: maybe I would have felt like it was a story
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: written for queer men if it wasn't women who were
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: throwing the discos and making I mean, I'm wearing merch today,
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: but so I know who's gay in Indiana. It's literally
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: my calling card. Who's seen the hockey boys kiss? I
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: have a hat? But yeah, I do. Like it's one
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: of those catch twenty two's where it's like I got
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: a lot of safety out of the queer community before
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: understanding Indian that I felt so safe in the queer
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: community because I was a queer woman masking as a
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: straight woman because of Capricorn energy and high ability hit
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: and probably a little bit of autism. Wait, you're a Capricorn, yes,
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: December twenty fifth, twenty nine. Uh, that's right, we have
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: the same birthday month. Do we should have a bashed
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: one year? We should rent a cottage.
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: Play more games? And watch heated rivalry and.
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: Watch heated rivalry. But when, because you know, sometimes my
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: initial reaction to things is one of irritation. And so
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: when I started getting feedback that like, oh, this is
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: a show about gay men but not really because it
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: was written for women by women or whatever, I started
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: to get like really bummed out and down because I
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: was like, is it because it is tender and sweet
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: and beautifully shot and all of the things that I
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: liked about the show, and I am always trying to
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: like define what female gaze looks like in film compared
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: to the male gaze, And I was like, is it
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: because like they weren't like grunting and burping and like
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: spacking each other before they made out, or like, you know,
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: I saw bros. And they did have to like open face,
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: open palm hit one another before they made out.
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: I'm still annoyed by that because they were like it
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: was really important to have like a gay character play
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: like a gay after play a gay character. But we
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: could have freaking had Chris Evans. We could have had
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: Captain America captain like because his brother's gay, and you
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: don't think Captain America like making out with a dude,
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: won't like change change things from change history.
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: Honestly, Chris Evans, pony up and do it anyways, get
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: on TikTok live.
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: Makeup dudes, yeah, and say it's for the gays. Great. Great.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: We have an entire month for pride, honestly because of
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: heated rivalry. Every time I see gay joy on the TV,
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: I now throw up my hands and go gay pride.
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: Pride can be every day.
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: I as a gay Filipino in Texas. That yeah, no,
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: I always say the most like radical thing I will
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: ever do is get married here and have my friends'
• 30:25
  Speaker 3: kids be there. That, like love is the most radical
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: thing I will ever do, which is the craziest thing.
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: And with the crazy what it's been crazier about that
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: is most of my conservative friends have more conservative friends
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: have been to gay weddings. Most of my liberal friends
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: have not.
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: You know what, I've never been to a gay wedding.
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: And now I'm upset.
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: And a lot of it has to do with like,
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: with like the because you just have gay friends, right
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: that I mean that won't get married if they've been
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: if they've been together forever, like what needs to change?
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: Like it's a whole point of view things. But when
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: I thought about that, I was like, oh, that's wild,
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: Like yeah, Kravn of course I've been to a wedding,
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: like really, of course.
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: I So that leads me to my next point that
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: when I was so bummed out about this, like what's
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: making queer men think that the show isn't actually for them?
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: And then my friend told me I was on the
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: wrong side of TikTok. She was like, you're on the
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: pessimistic side of TikTok. You gotta get get over here
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: to the joyful side of TikTok where there are men
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: talking about how this show is a great form of representation.
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: They're actually happy exists, but still, like there's discourse. I
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: got to thinking about and he's visiting you this week.
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: I got to think about your partner and all of
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: the cute tiktoks that you make where it's like things
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: that I'm gonna freeze dry. So my boyfriend plays board
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: games with me and like my favorite ones and you
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: know this are the ones where you make him dance
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: with you and he won't tell you, No, he won't.
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: He'll never tell me though, And I was like, well,
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: I hope that the norm is more curving in his
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: partner's relationship and not just like you're in a relationship
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: with another man and you're just he manning off of
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: one another all the time, because that I'd never want
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: to watch that TV show.
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: Something that. Like. So I have a lot of on
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: Boar Game TikTok. They're a lot of like gen z
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: like dudes, right, And it's wild to me that like
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: in their thirties, like late twenties, early thirties, straight men
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: who like have had crazy life experiences and are married
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: are just starting to realize that, like they can be
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: a husband in a way they hadn't originally thought. Like
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: they're like, they're more like the role is not as
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: clearly defined and like and that's okay, And I'm like,
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: what do you mean? Like I started when I was sixteen,
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: Like I started my entire life. It's why I love Mulan, right,
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: Like besides you know Asian stuff, like I freaking love Laalan.
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: But like the whole concept of like being like that
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: I didn't think was so different was I got to
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: have friendships that like made sense to only me. I
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: got to have relationships that don't make sense to anyone.
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: I don't have to justify them to anybody. Like when
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: I get married, I don't got to tell nobody nothing.
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: I can just have what I want how it makes sense,
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: And as long as he's not upset, I'm great. But
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: like having people realize in midlife, like I mean not
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: mid life, but like thirty forties, that like I can
• 33:36
  Speaker 3: be something where I can I don't have to do
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: something is just like it broke my brain.
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I do think that there's a lot of room
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: still for straight men to be allowed the chance to, like, Hey,
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: what if what if you were the giggly adorable one
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: for today? Wouldn't that be like it? Haven't you ever
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: just wanted to giggle? Like we have a blast.
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: That's where people think I'm I'm like super serious. I'm like,
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: I'm Filipino. I inherently giggle, like it's like in my
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: culture to giggle. And like, I remember when I was
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: thinking about, like when my content was like evolving, I
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: was still trying to figure out what I wanted to do,
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: and people still thought I was overly serious. I was like,
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: maybe I should just show more of my friendships with
• 34:24
  Speaker 3: my guy friends and like because they're real and like
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: I'll be like, hey, let's do this, like okay, and
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: they'll like hold my hand and skip with me. They'll
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: like pick me up and like hug me and like
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: it's weird to think that, like I'm gayer online that
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: I am in real life. But it's to remind people
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: that I am, because people like, apparently I'm straight passing
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: if I'm not talking because I dress the way I
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: do and I don't want people to like since I've
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: done on the internet, people will say like misogynistic things
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: around me, and like, what makes you think you can
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: say that around me? Like that's actually not okay, And
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: I'm like, crap not to like flirt with you, so
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: you remember that I'm gay because people forget.
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: People forget it's ridiculous. Well, and it's because of the
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: heteronormativity trap that kept me, uh siloed into being a
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: straight lady who's going to marry a man, come hell
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: or high water. And and I think that's what it is.
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: It's like everyone just wants everyone to fit into this nice,
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: tiny little box. And I think that's why Ilia is
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: actually so important because he's very for a man who's
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: from Russia, where it's illegal to be everything that he
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: is except for a hockey player, and for him to
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: be so secure in his bisexuality that when Shane's dad
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: is like, but you've slept with a lot of women,
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: and he goes.
• 35:43
  Speaker 3: I have that that's not untrue.
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: That's not untrue. That's not untrue.
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: That's but that's the part of Ilia I actually like
• 35:55
  Speaker 3: really related to. Like I loved the fact that, like
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: he ate he was the white person relationship that dealt
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: with that because right, because normally it's it's like the
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: bipoc person, right, And having to be like with his family,
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: like having to always prioritize other people's feelings and just
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: never being able to express his always having to like
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: take care of everyone and have to be this like
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: hyper independent person, like that's my wife. I've always said,
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: you have to earn the right to do nice things
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: for me, And like the scene. I love this absolutely.
• 36:28
  Speaker 3: My favorite scene is like when he like asked Shane
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: for like money, because you know that boy has never
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: asked anyone to pay for anything in his life. And
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: he's like, hey, pay for pay for these kids chocolate
• 36:39
  Speaker 3: barres because a shark ate me in a pool, Like you.
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: Know what, I mean like that the whole scene is
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: my favorite scene, him playing shark, him telling that kid
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: get out of the.
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: Pool, splash him, slash him, and then he was like
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: splashing No, Like like that scene is just like forever
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: etched in my memory is just like oh protection.
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: There's also something like halfway through the show, I forget
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: that they're closeted because a majority of the show is
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: spent in their personal, intimate time together and they're so
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: For Shane, who's running a marathon of a checklist in
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: his head the entire time, there is a part in
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: every scene that he's with Eliah that you watch it
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: fall away and I'm like, he's so comfortable and he's
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: and like for the moment they're so secure in one
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: another that I was allowed to let go of all
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: of that anxiety that happens, Like the tension was never
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: like ooh, these hockey players are having sex and they
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: could be caught at any moment. I never felt that way.
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: Agreed, agreed, and the fact that like there was a
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: happy ending, oh like that, Like that that's the like,
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: that's the part that like when you consume so much
• 38:09
  Speaker 3: queer media and and to the point where like to
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: feel represented and cared for. I had to watch like
• 38:14
  Speaker 3: movies and different languages, Like I remember the first like
• 38:17
  Speaker 3: RuPaul's Drag Race where I actually like felt represented was
• 38:20
  Speaker 3: RuPaul's Drag Race Season one of Thailand and it was
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: subtitled and I was like, I had to like watch
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: something that was subtitled to feel like I'm real and
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: my feelings are real and like I'm not crazy because
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: they threw shade the way I do. They have the
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: humor the way I do, and like they're not loud,
• 38:38
  Speaker 3: We're just a low people, like do you know what
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: I mean? Like and the fact that like we got
• 38:43
  Speaker 3: a happy story, Like I was thinking about it today,
• 38:45
  Speaker 3: do you know what the the first movie launched in
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: America by a major studio where the main character was
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: like a queer teenager.
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: A queer told me to yep, I know it's gotta
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: be earlier than but I'm a Cheerleader. But that's the
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: one that's always in my head because it was a
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: major studio. Oh that's right, But I'm a Cheerleader was
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: an independent film. It what was it?
• 39:16
  Speaker 3: It was Love?
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: Simon shut up. I was like, how old were we
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: when we watched Love?
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: Sign it was seven years ago. Yeah, and then people
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: were like, oh, this could have been made in America. Now,
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: this could never have been made to America.
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: Absolutely not well and too me the the way that
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: they shot and they constructed the story around heated rivalry
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: and the actual love and affection between these two men,
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: plus with all of the outside noise surrounding them but
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: not getting to them. It felt very much like heart Stopper.
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: Have you watched heart Stopper on? It's adorable. I've read
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: I think all of the books at this point. My
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: only complaint with The Hearts is that the in the
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: in the comic books, the rugby player the like sporty
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: or boyfriend. It's been a while since I've watched it.
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: What's what are their names, Charlie and.
• 40:13
  Speaker 3: I guess it's Kit Connor. I keep forgeting what his
• 40:15
  Speaker 3: name is.
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: So Kick Connor isn't like as Dowey and Goat and
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: like Golden Retriever. Like, he's not like as broad and
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: dowey as the kid in the book. So when I
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: turned it on, I was like, no, I wanted him
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: to be a big, giant oaf of a giant dope
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: and that's what I wanted and Kick Connor is just
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: not who you are and you're cute in all of
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: the other ways. Yes, But Heartstopper is also one of
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: those shows that's constructed around a group of misfits who
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: are expressing love in the way that they understand it
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: while there is a whole outside world that's not built
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: for them. But it's not like you're not sad at
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: the end of every yet, So you're like, look at
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: those cute kids go. One of them is actively kicked
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: out of her house and she still has a pretty
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: uplifting storyline. And I think number one, the fact that
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: it's love signon is insane to me. I can't reckon that, but.
• 41:22
  Speaker 3: Like it makes like but if you think about it
• 41:24
  Speaker 3: makes sense though, like like like the whole, like trans athletes,
• 41:29
  Speaker 3: the whole, like like GSA is in middle school in
• 41:32
  Speaker 3: high school, like they don't want to promo, like we
• 41:35
  Speaker 3: just like wake up thirty and gay, right. Like I
• 41:37
  Speaker 3: remember I was talking to one of my friend's husbands
• 41:41
  Speaker 3: and he was just like, Keurvin, I need to need
• 41:43
  Speaker 3: to ask you questions and I'm like okay, and he
• 41:46
  Speaker 3: was just I was like, you don't need to but
• 41:47
  Speaker 3: I will answer them because I love your wife and
• 41:49
  Speaker 3: I don't know if you deserve her, but we will go.
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: And she was he was like, so you came out
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: before there was like wee representation. I was like, like
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: I knew I was gay when I was for I
• 41:59
  Speaker 3: was not essayed. Both my parents are still happily married.
• 42:03
  Speaker 3: Like every stereotype that day had attributed to why someone
• 42:05
  Speaker 3: would be gay, like I did not have, And I'm
• 42:08
  Speaker 3: like gay people have, like we've always existed, and like,
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: why is it so hard for you to think that,
• 42:14
  Speaker 3: Like we just like we don't know when we're four
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: or five, Like I most of my friends we knew
• 42:21
  Speaker 3: like in kindergarten we crushes on boys and girls at
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: the same time and then just like had to really
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: and realize we were different and we would just like
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: worry about it later. Like I didn't come out because
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: I was super courageous. I came out because I was
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: exhausted of trying to process things by myself. Like being
• 42:36
  Speaker 3: gay is more than like who you love. It's how
• 42:39
  Speaker 3: you interact with people, how you build relationships, how the
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: world sees you. It affects your dreams, it affects like
• 42:45
  Speaker 3: all of it encompasses so much of like who you are,
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: and for people just to be like, oh, it's just
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: like who you sleep with, it's like it's awful and
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: like for people not to understand that, like.
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: It just well. And I think that that's why Ilia
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: is such a perfect partner for Shane, because of Ilia's
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: Russian attitude. When Shane says something altely lines up I
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: think I'm gay, and Ilia goes, what made you think that?
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: Is it?
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: The fact that you sleep with men? And he just
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: like he just does him like dues Shane. And then
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: Shane kind of gets to stop that running checklist of
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: anxiety in his head because he's like, Okay, well, I
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: guess it is true, and we don't have to make
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: a deal, Like he had a safe space to not
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: have a big such a big deal. When I was
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: thirty and on this podcast, realizing that a lot of
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: religion in type A and Capricorn and high ability and
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: straight heteronormativity, straight passing in the Midwest, and the fact
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: that I love attention, so I was going to do
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: the tap dance to be like I'm a good Midwestern woman.
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: When I realized that it was all upfront and I
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: was like telling my friend on this podcast, and I
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: was like, well, I've only ever really enjoyed the company
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: of women, and I only really think of women in
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: like loving ways. And the men that I have dated
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: have been fine.
• 44:22
  Speaker 3: Or talk about women, they're fine, like they're.
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: Okay, but like I love women. And she's like, do
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: you know what we call that? We call that being gay?
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: And I was like, I think God made me not
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: be gay. And I was like, and that's crazy because
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: we did not. I wasn't raised in like a religiously
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: devout household. I just had a concept of Christian God
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: because we had to talk to someone on Easter and
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: Christmas and it was him. And so when I was
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: a thirty year old telling younger friends.
• 44:56
  Speaker 4: I was like, you know, I was recording off the
• 44:58
  Speaker 4: podcast and I think I realize that, like, I'm okay
• 45:01
  Speaker 4: with the idea of me dating women, and I think
• 45:05
  Speaker 4: it will be a better experience for me.
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: I think I connect with the win better on a
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: mental and emotional level. I think that they're prettier than men.
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: I think that they're funnier than men, and they're just better.
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: And a friend asked me, she goes, so You're gonna
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: let all of those them that mistreated you win and
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: just give up on men entirely. And I'm like, yeah,
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: what a.
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: Wait when that verb that verb is can get winning.
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you're gonna let them win?
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: And I was, but they never like, that's not even,
• 45:40
  Speaker 3: that's apples and oranges, that's not even.
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: But also like, why is heteroceptuality such a battle? Like
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: every day you're going to battle.
• 45:50
  Speaker 3: If you've heard them talk, yeah, it is a battle.
• 45:52
  Speaker 3: I know.
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: That's what I'm saying, and it's why, and it's why
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: I do want to talk to you about rival because
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: I didn't want to hear a bunch of women tell
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: me like if only men, we treat me like we
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: treat their boyfriends. And I feel like men don't like us,
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: like systematically they jose that they have not been trained
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: to like us. They're never gonna treat you like aud
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: heated rivalry. And I just wanted to be proud of
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: my hockey sons. Yeah, I didn't want to hear a
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: bunch of women tell me and this is what we
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: long for. And I'm like, this doesn't I guess, but.
• 46:38
  Speaker 3: No, but literally all those videos, I was just like
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: I mean, it was great, it was cute, but like
• 46:42
  Speaker 3: not like I ooh, like I didn't owe anything, and
• 46:46
  Speaker 3: I feel like so much as like, and some people
• 46:48
  Speaker 3: were like taking notes and be like ooh, I'm like,
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: I don't.
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: I know women are having their straight husbands watch it
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: and give reviews on TikTok. Please know, I don't want
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: to know your boyfriend or your husband's opinion on my show.
• 47:01
  Speaker 3: I don't want to. I don't want I don't want
• 47:02
  Speaker 3: straite opinions on my show either.
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: When people were like, you gotta listen to the straight
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: hockey men talk about heated rivalry and how important it
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: is to them, no, I don't, I don't. No, I
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: don't No, I do not Okay, And then because again
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: of this, like because this is going to be a
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: harsh thing to say, but heterosexual women are always in
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: an affection in love scarcity mindset. So when we're in
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: the scarcity mindset one day, when I was one of you,
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: when we were in the scarcity mindset, we react in
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: like crazy days. So like when we're at our little
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: like I would love to go to one of the
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: heated rivalry raves because I love to bump and grind.
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: But then I found out that y'all were kicking out
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: the gays out of the Heated Rivalry they were and
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: I was like, that's who I want to hang out with.
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: What are you doing.
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: It?
• 48:03
  Speaker 4: It it?
• 48:06
  Speaker 3: I don't I don't like I'm making this comparison, but
• 48:08
  Speaker 3: it feels like when straight women go to gay clubs,
• 48:13
  Speaker 3: it very much is Hey, there's the space. It's not
• 48:17
  Speaker 3: made for me, but I'm gonna like enjoy it and
• 48:19
  Speaker 3: benefit from it, and then ruined like the experience with
• 48:22
  Speaker 3: people that space was intended for. And I feel like
• 48:26
  Speaker 3: that there are people in the Heated Rivalry fandom that
• 48:31
  Speaker 3: are doing versions of that and and I get that
• 48:34
  Speaker 3: it's not like made for gay people, but it's like,
• 48:37
  Speaker 3: but the main story they're gay. Like I don't know.
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: I don't know anything about Jacob Tyranny, and I don't
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: have to agreed. I assumed he was a queer man
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: because he took this project on. But I always make
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: assumptions like that. I assume that because you're anyone's talking
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: to me that they're because why would you want to
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: talk to me if you're a not queer person? But
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: I assume the jigga that was the exception I made,
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: So I don't understand. I don't understand because, like I think,
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: it is a story for queer people. Who else would
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: it be forayers? And I love I love hockey. Have
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: I told you that I love hockey. It's because it's
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: so violent and the pay and it's because they never
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: really call time out. The game never stops. They just
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: keep having different boys pop in and out of the
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: little box, or they're in time out, they have to
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: be in the penalty box, or they're in their little
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: lunchbox box, and they're just jumping in and out and
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: the game never stops. And I love that about hockey
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: because you know what's wrong with football? You stop every
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: three minutes. I cannot my ADHD can't take that on.
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: But men who just want to hit one another on ice,
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: I love that.
• 50:05
  Speaker 3: I love that I didn't learn anything more about hockey
• 50:09
  Speaker 3: than I didn't know previously.
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: Correct, yes, because that wasn't the focus right, And I
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: will say that for people who are like I would
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: have loved some we're actually sad about being closeted representation.
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: We had an entire episode three honestly, it was the
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: Kip and Scott Hunter. I was like, I'd watch this
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: episode every day, the standalone episode between the two of them, if.
• 50:39
  Speaker 3: There was a whole series on that, I would watch
• 50:41
  Speaker 3: that every single day.
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: Well, they're the first book. I do get that, yes,
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: And my cousin told me, she was like, you can
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: go ahead and skip that first book because they are
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: just like privileged white dudes.
• 50:54
  Speaker 3: There are people who were saying that that uh that
• 50:58
  Speaker 3: Hudson is like, do not care about it because they're
• 51:01
  Speaker 3: both white. And it was like, you think he looks white?
• 51:03
  Speaker 3: Do you how old he? Oh? He looks half absolutely
• 51:07
  Speaker 3: it is half something, but like he's not blonde. His
• 51:10
  Speaker 3: black hair. He has the like the nineties like like
• 51:13
  Speaker 3: like like part that like we all rocked in the nineties,
• 51:17
  Speaker 3: and every Asian kid like, do you think.
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: I could wrap that hairstyle? I think I like his hair.
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: What do you think I could wrap that? Honestly? I
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: want to do some photos shopping later on. Maybe someone
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: will make a TikTok filter. The thing people just complained
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: number one, did you watch the show? They talk about
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: him being Asian all the time, Like his mom's name
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: is Una, right, there's not ay okay? Yuna is like hey,
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: Nike called and this is going to mean a lot
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: to Asian kids.
• 51:54
  Speaker 3: It's her.
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: It's her line every episode, every for your future. People
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: like like, do it for the Asian kids, and like
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: it was when I.
• 52:05
  Speaker 3: First saw her and I was like, oh, she has
• 52:07
  Speaker 3: to be like some form of Filipino mix. Yeah, she
• 52:10
  Speaker 3: is Filipino and so and to have like a Filipino
• 52:15
  Speaker 3: mom say all of the right things, because there's so
• 52:17
  Speaker 3: many Filipinos who don't have their mom who say the
• 52:20
  Speaker 3: right things, like like is something that like it matters,
• 52:25
  Speaker 3: It absolutely matters.
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: I have flabber guessed that people didn't catch on that
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: they're both not white boys. I also need people to
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: understand that, like, different cultures outside of America also have
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: a different set of roles no matter what you look like.
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: The reason why the show is so good is because
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: it came out of Canada. Watched Degrassi, it goes there,
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: and it has gone there for a decade since the eighties.
• 52:55
  Speaker 3: Correct.
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: My mom watched it in college and that's how she
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: learned gay culture in the eighties and watch De Grassy
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: from Canada. It is my goal this year to actually
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: start consuming more non English speaking television because I understand
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: that it's better, and I understand that I will resonate
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: with more of the stories because and I talked about this.
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: I've talked about this so many times, but like America
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: censors even Canadian stories, Like they didn't play Manny's abortion
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: episode unless it was three am on MTV. They would
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: not let me see Manny's abortion episode on the Grassy
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: because in America, you're not allowed to just talk about abortion,
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: let alone go get one.
• 53:47
  Speaker 3: Can I make a recommendation for you always? So I
• 53:51
  Speaker 3: recently it's almost done. It's season two. It's called The
• 53:56
  Speaker 3: Boyfriend and it's on Netflix, Okay, yeah, and it's it's
• 53:59
  Speaker 3: space in Japan. It has a bunch of like Japanese
• 54:02
  Speaker 3: queer men who either recently like want to start dating
• 54:08
  Speaker 3: or trying to like find themselves. Yeah, and they like
• 54:11
  Speaker 3: are put in this house. They still have their full
• 54:13
  Speaker 3: time jobs. They all work remotely, and they like run
• 54:15
  Speaker 3: this coffee shop and they just like build friendships and
• 54:18
  Speaker 3: then they can like date and figure out what they want.
• 54:21
  Speaker 3: And I want to say that like it is the
• 54:24
  Speaker 3: most innocent and like it's what people think people wanted
• 54:29
  Speaker 3: in high school when I was in high school, right,
• 54:31
  Speaker 3: it was just like oh he had in that hand.
• 54:33
  Speaker 3: But like it's literally like the cutest thing, and it
• 54:36
  Speaker 3: has men talking about their feelings in a like period
• 54:42
  Speaker 3: like this period, and like in a way that like
• 54:45
  Speaker 3: is thoughtful, and it's so like this could never happen
• 54:48
  Speaker 3: to America because in America they would just all sleep
• 54:49
  Speaker 3: together day one and then just drama. Right, But because
• 54:54
  Speaker 3: Japanese is more like it's more of a conservative culture.
• 54:57
  Speaker 3: Like it's an insight into like what as an elder
• 55:04
  Speaker 3: gay millennial, what it was like for like Jerry think
• 55:07
  Speaker 3: before because like now like gen Z gays are like
• 55:10
  Speaker 3: this is what it is, take it or leave it,
• 55:12
  Speaker 3: we don't care. But like that approach won't always work
• 55:15
  Speaker 3: because like gay marriage has not been around for that long, right,
• 55:19
  Speaker 3: Like like aren't like my friend's parents were part of
• 55:23
  Speaker 3: like they remember when like segregation was a big Louisiana right,
• 55:27
  Speaker 3: like they like, like it's it hasn't been a full
• 55:30
  Speaker 3: lifetime yet, and yet you're and you can demand things
• 55:33
  Speaker 3: and it's great and I'm proud that there are people
• 55:35
  Speaker 3: who could do that, but like, it's not it will
• 55:37
  Speaker 3: not work for everybody.
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: I've been rewatching Jessper at Housewives, one of my favorite shows,
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: and when Bobb and Lay the gay couple, come to
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: Asperia Lane, my entire body lit up with the memory of, like,
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: how big of a deal. I thought that was in
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: my early twenties that they would have number one on
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: this show that's chock full of women in their thirties
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: and forties, which is also unheard of on American television.
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: They also at some point included a gay couple, but
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: even when Bob and Lee were getting married, they never
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: they planned the wedding on the show. They never televised it,
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: and I think it's because gay marriage wasn't legal during
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: that season, I'm pretty sure, and they were going to
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: have some sort of commitment ceremony, but it could have
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: also have waffled. No, No, it wasn't the year that
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: that gay marriage was ratified. I think that came after
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: the show was over, but they never aired the wedding.
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: I was like, we dedicated so many episodes to planning
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: this wedding and we never see it.
• 56:43
  Speaker 3: Did you ever watch Dawson's Creek?
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: I love Boston's Creek and kur Smith freaking.
• 56:50
  Speaker 3: He was Andy's brother and he had like the gay storyline, right,
• 56:55
  Speaker 3: And so that was the first like same sex kiss
• 56:58
  Speaker 3: aired on like prime time television, and he his career.
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: Like ticked after of course, Yeah, well like go for
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: it now.
• 57:09
  Speaker 3: I was just gonna say, like, like what that meant
• 57:12
  Speaker 3: to just have like a high school kid try to
• 57:16
  Speaker 3: like find himself and all like that. That that meant
• 57:20
  Speaker 3: the world to me as like a teenager. And then
• 57:23
  Speaker 3: later on they did like the finals, the Final It
• 57:25
  Speaker 3: was like a movie that they did, and he like
• 57:28
  Speaker 3: ended up dating like Pacey's brother or whatever.
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: It was just I have like an entire body sense memory,
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: and I know when I was young, I was probably
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: younger than ten. I have like an entire body sense
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: memory that I can put myself into when Ellen kissed
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: a woman on a sitcom and like and Ellen came
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: out on TV via her own sitcom, and then I
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: also just like felt the tension in my house because
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: it happened. And I I remember when Rosie o' donald
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: had to be a straight lady who loved Tom Cruise,
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: which should be illegal to have to be forced to
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: love Tom Cruise.
• 58:11
  Speaker 3: He's five five? Can't you say that he's five five?
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: Well? Does that make him a better person because.
• 58:17
  Speaker 3: He's no, just like, don't make people fall in love
• 58:20
  Speaker 3: with bye bye people, Like like, that's not the person that,
• 58:24
  Speaker 3: like you should be forcing Rosio donald.
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: I'm just no, And like I love Rosi o' donald.
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: She follows me on TikTok brag. We're friends.
• 58:34
  Speaker 4: What yes?
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: I So we watched Sleepless in Seattle for our movie
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: spin off where we uh we watched old comfort movies
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: and Sleepless in Seattle with my friend Julia's and I
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: don't think I had ever seen it before as an adult,
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: I have all of these like false memories of movies
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: because movies were just always playing in my house. But
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: to say that I sat down and watched Sleepless in
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: Seattle before we watched it for you Too falls and
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: it's the same with the entire stream franchise. But anyways,
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: we were watching and I cut a little clip of
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: it and it starts off with I was so happy
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: to see Rosi o donald. Do you remember when Rosio
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: o'donald was in all of the movies. It's so comforting
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: to see her in movies. I was like, hey, Fred,
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: that's by Fred Rosie and she saw it and it's
• 59:24
  Speaker 2: just like the first two seconds of this minute long
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: clip that I have, and she commented and she was like,
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: hey friend, and she followed me, and I cried. I landed,
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: really cried, and I was like, I remember, I remember
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: Rothie o'donald, and I remember all the all of the
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: things that Rosie o' donald went through when it became dear.
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: I don't even know if Rosio donald came out as
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: much as we all just like woke up from it
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: and realized that she was queer, and then we treated
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: her terribly afterwards. I remember, like Rosi o' donald being
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: thrown as an insult at me one time because it's like, well, Nami,
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: if you're not going to be nice about men, why
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: don't you just go be on the Rosi o'donald cruise,
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: And then like feeling shame about that because I was like,
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: I don't want to be all the lesbian cruise because
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: someone was yelling at me, and I like, Rosie o'donnald
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: was such a huge figure in my life, and it's
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: and you know what, remember how fun Will and Grace was.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: Where's our Will and Grace for the millennial years? Where's
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: my twenty twenty six will and Grace, Like I and
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: I grew up watching those shows and we were a
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: big sitcom family. I couldn't just be watching the Brady
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: Bunch all of the time. And it's one of those
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: things where I felt that heated rivalry for a show
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: that was about being in the closet, they were so
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: naturally integrated into their everyday lives, their romance and their
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: feelings for one another there that I was like, well, actually,
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: this just feels lovely at the end of the day,
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: I'm not even sad for them.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 3: I agree, like like it, Like if there's one thing
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 3: that the show didn't do, it just if it like
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 3: it it didn't emphasize frequently enough because you were just
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 3: show drawn away from shots and like decisions that like
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 3: they're these like massive stars that were like could you
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 3: imagine when like when Michael, like when Michael Jordan or
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 3: like any like I think of any other sport and
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 3: think of like major rivalries and have that happen Like
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 3: that's like in that context, it'd be insane.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 3: It.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: What was your favorite scene of the show.
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 3: It depends on my mood, right, Like it depends on
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 3: like where my head's at, Like like I just I
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 3: love I could watch the scene of like Shane in
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 3: the hospital forever.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 5: These come to my cottage, Like it's it's the vocal sims,
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 5: it's the way he looked at him, and like, I
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 5: feel like that's just like that scene everyone can relate to.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 3: It's just like someone you cared about something happened and
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 3: you're seeing them and you're just wanting making sure that
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 3: they're okay, and it's just like and there's so much
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 3: you can read into that scene. I mean, you saw
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 3: the heart rate stuff, right, his heart rate like went down,
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 3: and like I just like I thought it was just oh,
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 3: you haven't seen of all time. Is when that last
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 3: kiss before they hooked up and changed like that, they're
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 3: talking about the Olympics and he's holding his jacket and
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 3: he's just like, oh, blah blah blah, you're gonna wear
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 3: when your entire life to win bronze. That that final
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 3: kiss is just like that's all I've ever wanted, That's
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 3: all I've ever demanded, that's all I've ever acquired. Is
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 3: just like it's just that just like because we're allowed
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 3: to have like, like kay, people are allowed to have
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 3: sweet moments we're allowed to have like pure and innocent
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 3: moments and like not everything has to be like super
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 3: aggressive or super anything. Like let people just like I
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 3: want that and for and for people who watch me
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 3: on TikTok it shouldn't surprise you. Like that's what I require.
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: Also, I know what you have with your partner and
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 2: with straight men that I know it's true straight men
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: that I know via TikTok.
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 3: I.
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 2: I I laugh at everything Ilia says, and I think
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: I do see a lot of myself in Ilia because
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 2: he's so black and white and he's like, well, it's
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 2: dumb to feel that way, and I'm like, oh, look,
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: he's mean, hey girl. And you know, it's the eldest
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 2: daughter eldest son thing where it's like you're just caring
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: and everything and you're charge of all of it and
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 2: you're the family caretaker and like you're holding all of
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: the family secrets and making sure that none of them
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: leap out. And I love Eliah. I love that stupid
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 2: Canadian bird. Uh. I mean it's on my hat. I
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: had to buy this hat because I was like, that's
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: so funny the way that he says it. When he's
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: like it's a lude stupid Canadian wolf, and I love
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: I love the Gimme kiss. I love every part of
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: the cottage, and I love Ilia playing in the pool
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: with the kids. When I rewatch it and I know
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 2: that that seems about to come up, it makes me
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: so excited. I'm like, here it comes, because it's so
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 2: especially I'm dedicating this year to Whimsy. And I feel
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 2: like heated rivalry gave Ilia pockets of times where he
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: could be playful and he could be hugaly and he
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: could like lay it down the responsibilities of the eldest son.
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 2: And I think that, Like I was watching it and
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: like thinking of New Year's resolutions. It was Christmas time
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: and I was like, I just and I got to
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: meet Cynthia Rivo and people did tell me like, are
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 2: you worried You're going to get kidnapped? And it's a
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: polity and I was like, no, wh you met her?
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: I did, yeah, in December.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 3: I followed her for years and where did you meet her?
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 2: So Airbnb did a promo where I wrote an essay
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: and I wrote, well about what Wicked and Cynthia Rivo
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: mean to me? Was the prompt. I wrote an essay
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: and I talked about like how often we talked about
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: Wicked on the podcast, and like I cried during Defying
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: Gravity because I cried for all of the eldest daughters
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: and for all of the women who are differed in
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: their families and friendships and communities because they refused to
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 2: center men. And it's so much easier for women to
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: center men. So when you're not doing it, you are
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: immediately othered. And so I won, I and twenty other
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: people won. I'm a winner. And I flew out to
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: LA and I went to Thousand Oaks, California, on this
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: big ranch and they recreated Alphaba's nest. It's my background,
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: it's my background. They recreated it and in this ranch
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: in California, and they recreated her nest from no good deed.
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: And she came and she gave a little Q and
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: A and she held space for my grandma. She was
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: wearing this like luxury I'll send you the bluff post
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: where I write about it. She was wearing this luxury
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: it's like silver sweater that was also giving a little
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: bit of like J. J. C. Penny's holiday line. And
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 2: I was like, my grandma would love that sweater. And
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: then I got like the tangles that my grandma was
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 2: with me on the trip, and I told her and
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 2: she went, Grandma, pet, we're just so lucky to have
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: you here. And she looks space for my grandma. I
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 2: know she's wonderful. Like I'm all in. I'm all in
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 2: on Sepia Reva. I think she's the most genuine person
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 2: and a genius and so talented. Oh and just like
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 2: a testament to everyone, to women, to black women, to
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 2: queer women, to people, she is a testament of what
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: we can do if we really set our minds to it.
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: Eldest daughter has a rocky relationship, like and unapologetically that yeah, amen, yes, yes,
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 2: I'll send you pictures. Yes, but it's one of the
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 2: best days of my life. But when people went I
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: was like, no, I'm going to be whimsical. I'm going
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 2: to decide that this is going to be a trip
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: that I can do and I can take and it
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 2: will be fun the entire time because I'm whimsical. Now,
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 2: I'm dangerously whimsical, and I think that like watching Ilia
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 2: in the pool reminds me that that's why I want
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 2: to do it. Like, how often do you feel.
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 6: Like we've been allowed to just have fun always like
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 6: not not like like I like because we're cheap, busy
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 6: doing everything even like finding ourselves to go on time
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 6: right like and then having to like navigate like family
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 6: and just like what it means to be like gay
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 6: or queer and like what like and then also.
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 3: Just me trying to like trying, you know, how long
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 3: as I can be okay with the fact that straight
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 3: men treat me well, like like there's a guilt attached
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 3: to that, there's like all this just like like it's
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 3: embarrassing that the straight gerys are my friends, but like
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 3: it's it's part of my truth and like I can't
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 3: like lie about it, like the and it was crazy
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 3: to me. So I feel like my entire life, like
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 3: I get that straight dudes have like they give me
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 3: whimsy in a way that like I've never been able
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 3: to like replicate or like respond to. Like I've I've
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 3: always been this like really serious person who giggles, right,
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 3: But that doesn't mean that I'm able to let go.
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 3: That doesn't mean that like and even as like a
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 3: theater kid, like like there's just so many things happening
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 3: and I'm also like five too, like being a short,
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 3: like on top of everything, Like but having people that
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 3: like I can say or do something and I trust
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 3: that like it'll be taken not in a negative way,
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 3: is such a big deal. Oh do they think I'm
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 3: coming my flirting too aggressively with them? Was? Was I
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 3: too close? Where's my hands when I hug them? It's
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 3: just like this constant like checklist of like algorithms and
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 3: just being able to just like be and then have
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 3: like that was always my goal and that's something I've
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 3: finally gotten to and the past couple of years, I mean,
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 3: you see, my tiktoks whimsy has been like a priority
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 3: of the past couple of years. Like I'm just like, hey,
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna pretend to eat your massive bicep, just flex it, okay,
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 3: And then so we did, and they're like, Curvin, what
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 3: was that. I'm like, I don't know. I thought it
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 3: was funny.
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 2: I went the Himbo the show at gen Con for
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 2: the Hembo's last year. For the first time, they asked
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 2: for a name suggestion, and I literally just said the
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: first like ridiculous set of syllables that came into my mind.
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 2: I was like, blubberydo or whatever. And then they all
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 2: just kind of looked at me because I said it
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 2: was such confidence because of my tism. And and finally
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 2: the person I was with landover and went, mamply, they
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: want you to make a pun, and I was like,
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 2: I didn't think of a pun. Someone else is gonna
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 2: have to do it. And someone else won the book,
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 2: and that's fine, himbos, I'll come back next year if
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 2: you were delightful. But like that like that innate feeling
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 2: of just like I'm going to go for it. I'm
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 2: going to go for it, and it's okay.
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 3: It's the it's okay part. I will go for things,
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 3: but like like okay, being like it doesn't matter what
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 3: comes from it, like like like like you're not thinking
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 3: of the repercussions. You're just like I'm just doing this
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 3: and trying to be in the moment, like like I
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 3: remember that like last gen Con, it was like a
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 3: friend's birthday and so I had like a drink and
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 3: then he bought like around the shots for people, and
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 3: like I'm a very anxious person, so I don't really drink,
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 3: especially like in cities that like I don't know and
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 3: like whatever, and but I can't say, but I also
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 3: super traditional person. If it's your birthday, I can't tell
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 3: you now the birthday shots if you're paying, like I
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 3: feel it's crazy. And so I I look over my
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 3: shrink guy friends and I was like, hey, like I
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 3: will do this, but I need you to like promise me,
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 3: like you won't leave me, Like I need you to
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 3: keep an eye on me. And he's like obviously, and
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 3: like so we did it or whatever. And every time,
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 3: of course that night I would like look around. He
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 3: was always just like scanning to see like where I was,
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 3: and he took it super seriously. And I'm like, it's
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 3: because of moments like that that I was able to
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 3: actually let go and like just be in the moment.
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 3: And it's crazy to think that, like what's required for
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 3: me to live in the moment.
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 2: Well, and then there's like the million of lies I
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 2: tell myself after I've lived in the moment, like a
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 2: couple of little gen cons ago when against all odds
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 2: and through the look of being me, I got friendship race.
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 2: Let's to Brendan Lee Mulligan and Erica Ee and Louise.
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 2: I don't know Louise's last name, even though he's on
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 2: critical role currently I know it starts with the c Sorry, Louise,
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 2: We'll meet again one day and I'll learn it. But
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 2: I got them friendship bracelets, and like, at first I
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 2: was like, this is the best. I'm a girl who
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 2: beautiful things happened to And then I went home and
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 2: I kept telling my little friendship Racelot story and I
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 2: heard things like, well, Manley, I hope that that's one
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 2: foot in the door for your career and all the
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 2: things that you want to do with your life, and
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 2: I hope you made a connection. And then I started
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 2: telling myself the lies where it's like I'm not just
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 2: a cute little girl who does things just to do things.
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 2: I'm opportunistic, I'm greedy, I'm always looking for my weight
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 2: in I'm always bothering people to try and get them
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 2: to care about me. And like it's the rhetoric, like
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 2: I don't believe that I am allowed to just be
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 2: a girl who's handing out friendship bracelets at gen Con
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 2: to Brandomly Mulligan.
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 3: I don't feel like I'm a guy who can just
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 3: like hug his guy friends on the internet and it
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 3: be okay, or just hug guys in general, and it'd
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 3: be okay.
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 2: I well, I don't know how to flirt with women,
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 2: and I definitely don't know how to ask them out
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 2: because I had this experience in a bar where a
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 2: man told me that being attracted to other men means
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 2: that you pop them physically. The moment that you walk
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 2: into a room, you know everything about every man's physicality.
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 2: And he asked me if it was like this physicality
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 2: thing with women, and I was like, no, I fall
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 2: in love with women based on what they say and
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 2: the way that they smile and the way like I
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 2: feel girly and fluttery when I'm near them or whatever.
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 2: And I was like, and I will end up calling
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 2: in love with every woman in this room, because everyone
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 2: woman in the room has a reason to fall in
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 2: love with them and has like, you know, the it factor.
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 2: And it is mostly that emotional draw. For me. I've
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 2: never been a big like ooh look at that, but person.
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 3: It was I keep I keep forgetting that, like there's
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 3: like the male gaze, the female gays, and the gay
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 3: people somewhere in the middle, right yeah, And like I
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 3: remember I was talking to one of my friends and
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 3: they're like, oh yeah, so and so it is obviously
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 3: like like super attractive. I'm like, is he like really curved.
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 3: I'm like, no, I don't. I don't really know. And
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 3: like for me, like I've always like, since I'm not
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 3: a words of affirmation person, I always say, like how
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 3: you treat people as a language, Like what you do
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 3: is a language. And he grew up in a really
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 3: conservative area. You are hyper aware of like looks and
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 3: actions and like what that means, and so like for me,
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 3: like I don't want to fall in love with someone
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 3: to stay open the door for me, but like, but
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 3: like it might happen you.
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 2: I have one time the guy at Culver's told me
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 2: that he would make me a chocolate strawberry shake even
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 2: though it wasn't on the menu, and I was ready
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 2: to give him my hand.
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 3: I was at five guys and I was wearing a
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 3: Star Wars shirt and he's just like he like he
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 3: made a spock joke and then he gave me extra
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 3: fries and.
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 2: I was just like, I love with you. I'm texting
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 2: all of my friends. I hate those people that I
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 2: was that I was meeting Cynthia Ribo in oz with
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 2: were some of the nicest, most genuine, most giving themselves
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 2: over to the whimsy of the moment. People that As
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 2: we were walking on the bus to go to the
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 2: ranch to meet Cynthia Rebo, I told everyone, I'm blocking
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 2: all of my other friends on my phone. These are
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 2: my friends. It's you all. I'm obsessed with all of you.
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 2: Everyone else is getting blocked. I'm not returning anyone's tall
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 2: And they were like insane. I was like, I'm only
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 2: half joking. I'm in love with all of you. One time,
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 2: during a writing workshop I was in, we were talking
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 2: about networking and Ashley, Nicole Black and Chelsea Devonte said,
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 2: you know, you can make up a contract for collaborations
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 2: and for like working on a script together. But it's
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 2: not like, you know, don't feel weird about it. It's
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 2: not like you're getting married. You don't have to get
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 2: married to these people. And I literally put in the chat,
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 2: but I would marry all of you in case there
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 2: was any doubts, I would marry all of you if
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 2: we need to get that go.
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 3: Something that like I didn't expect to learn is that,
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 3: like you can have soulmates that you're not meant to marry.
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 3: And I firmly believe that, like tart story. I think
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 3: he did something talking about like you're a part of
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 3: my soulmate family, like and and absolutely is the thing.
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 3: Like my best guy friend I met him in college.
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 3: He has all of my feelings as a straight dude,
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 3: which just wild to me. And like whenever something happens,
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 3: I never need to tell him how I feel because
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 3: he feels it. He's always like, Curvin, I'm the super
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 3: selfish person, but when I'm around you, like, I'm not
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 3: that person. And like every time you go to a restaurant,
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 3: is like, can I get a name for order? It's
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 3: like put it under Curvin, It's k E r V.
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 3: Can you repeat it for me please? I just want
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 3: to make sure you get it right because he knows
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 3: my name is I automatically like annoyed and he's like, Curven,
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 3: you gotta get ahead of it. You gotta get ahead
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 3: of it. I'm like, I'm glad I have you to
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 3: fight for me when I don't have the energy to it.
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 2: Okay, well, I do have a writing class in ten minutes,
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 2: so I'm going to move us on because I want
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 2: you to be able to brag about all of the
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 2: things that you're doing. So what is something that you
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 2: took away as a life changing lesson from hated rivalry.
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 3: A life changing lesson.
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know the drill on this. We have to
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 2: learn something from our nonsense. I'm not allowed to just
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 2: have fun.
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 3: It's okay to fall in love even if it doesn't
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 3: make sense. Oh yeah in the moment, in the moment,
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 3: not saying it'll never make sense. And I feel like
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 3: as someone who's like suit like an overly emotional person,
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 3: I feel like and my choices I've made in the
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 3: past and like partners, like it's okay to fall in love,
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 3: and like it's kind of like people always say, like
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 3: it's courageous to fall in love, and like I probably
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 3: my like like mind and heart around that is very difficult.
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 3: But like I'm at a point where like it's okay
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 3: because like they didn't mean to fall in love, that
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 3: was not their goal, and and like it worked out
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 3: for them, and sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't,
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 3: and like either way, like it's fine that you did.
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 2: What is something that you would like to manifest for
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 2: the general collective that is inspired by heated bivalry that there.
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 3: Is someone out there for you? Yeah, Like it absolute
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 3: feels impossible. Sometimes it absolutely is frustrating, and like you
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 3: feel the spectrum of emotions. But when I first started
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 3: my partner, he's a curvid. I want unfiltered, curved, and like,
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 3: I don't think you want that. And he's like, he's
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 3: a super logical person, and he said, I don't think
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 3: life is worth living if I can't experience every emotion.
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 2: With some medy. Oh my god, he is the reason
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 2: I believe in love. I hope you tell him tonight
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 2: and so like.
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 3: And for someone who has a lot of algorithms and
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 3: a lot of like keeps a lot because I feel
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 3: like a lot. He's never told me to like shut up.
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 3: He's never told me that I'm a lot or that
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 3: I'm crazy. And I feel like everyone has that person
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 3: and even though I'm not this overly sentimental person, like
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 3: there is someone out there for you, and like sometimes
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 3: it might take longer than what you want. But like
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 3: I dated this man for seven years and like, as
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 3: soon as I get to marry him, I cannot wait
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 3: to marry him.
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm gonna come. I'm gonna crash the fuck out
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 2: of it.
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 3: You better come.
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 2: I'm either going to be in a really big prom dress,
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 2: or in the gooth troop pasta from the from the musician,
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 2: power lining backs, power line.
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 3: Because you I don't know if I told you so.
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 3: The whole thing was like big a Texas wedding. If
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 3: you have your first low song picked out with my
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 3: dance too, do not pick me because it will be
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 3: a cappella version of a goofy movies I Die sung
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 3: by all of my theater friends in a coral like acappella.
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 3: Like that's crazy, and like I do, I demand it?
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well, Kurvin, thank you so much for
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 2: coming back, Thank you for being my friend. I'm going
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 2: to be forty in a couple of years. I'm going
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 2: to do a big birthday tour to all of my
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 2: long distance friends. We're going to a cottage. Ship we're
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 2: playing and we're playing board games. Mind us a cottage
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 2: in Texas or if I did, or come here we
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 2: have a lot of cottages on the dunes. But make
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 2: sure that everyone knows all of the exciting things that
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 2: I'm privy too, because I'm obsessed with you and I'm
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 2: always on your TikTok.
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 3: So this so I U marsh Hollow. We are about
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 3: to send all everything to the printer. They added eight
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 3: ney pages to the comic. The lore of the game
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 3: is not a paragraph. It's this comic that's made with
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 3: kill Reese. And she's an overly amazing talented graphic designer
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 3: to the comic and all the artwork. I can't wait
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 3: to promote like her because she's amazing. And then this
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 3: year is the year that I have a series called
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 3: forty before forty because I can turn forty in December,
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 3: and I'm going to do wild asks or asks that
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 3: feel wild, like I got to meet Chris Grace because
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 3: of it and have all the keys us with Chris Grace.
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 3: I've reached out to a bunch of like digital publishers
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 3: for board games. I got stream keys for my friends
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 3: and wants to get Away. I've asked studios for like
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 3: like Borghame studios for towards their facilities. I've asked like
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 3: people in Borgame TikTok Europe to do lives with me,
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 3: like I'd have this list of like crazy things that like,
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 3: this is going to be a really good year even
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 3: if it doesn't work out, like I think it's important
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 3: to grow and go outside your comfort zone. So I'm
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 3: a pretty decent deal with the bregaming space on Burgme TikTok,
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 3: and my goal was just to be a pretty decent
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 3: deal in the industry. I'm co designing games with publishers.
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 3: I asked them they wanted to design games with me.
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 3: I'm working on like an Otterer one, which is super cute.
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 3: I'm working on an astrology one, which we'll talk about later.
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 3: Yes and yeah, No. A lot's happening this year and
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 3: I'm super excited.
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 2: Listen, there are a lot of people who made me
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 2: Covins that it was time for me to start dreaming.
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 2: And right when I was convince that I would start
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 2: dreaming and I would start writing and maybe one day
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 2: I'd be the lady getting an Emmy and thanking all
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 2: of the people who made it possible for her to
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 2: dream on a big stage and or bumping and grinding
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 2: on here Bard to an usher throwback Curvin was one
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 2: of them. You you inspire me. I'm going to do
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 2: my own forty when I turned thirty nine. I'll start
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 2: my forty before forty. And Chris Grace, if you are listening,
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 2: the moment that I'm finding your name with TikTok, the
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 2: moment that Kervin got on TikTok and told me that
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 2: he met the Scarlett Johansson Chris Grace. I lost my
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 2: shit because I find you to be so delightfully adorable
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 2: and wonderful, and I love all of your content and
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 2: I loved your comedy special. So if you're as obsessed
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 2: with Cervin as I am, and you've stalked him to
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 2: this podcast, you're a friend of the pod.
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 3: And he's he's exactly the thing.
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 2: Oh, I know, he's a sweet baby angel, just like
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 2: Connor and Hudson, who are my sons. They are my sons,
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 2: and I put them on my vision board because I'm
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 2: going to meet them in twenty twenty six. If twenty
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 2: twenty five was a year that I was in a movie,
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 2: I met Cynthia Rebo and Erica gave me a friendship
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 2: bracelet because she remembered my friendship bracelet from gen Con,
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 2: then twenty twenty six, I'm getting a hold of my sons.
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 2: I'm meeting them and we're going to have a hell
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 2: of a time. And remember toleraars, you don't have to
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 2: smile through any everything. You're tolerant. You don't have to
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 2: smile through anything you're tolerating, in cluding finding that there
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 2: is such a gap in the media that represents you
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 2: that you feel bad for holding the media sacred that
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 2: does represent you. Smiles and for joy
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 3: M