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A "Gateway" to AI: Why Lawyers Need to Get Creative with Tech (with Ernie Svenson) · Legal Late Night

• Jared Correia (00:00): Hello everybody. We've got a show the promises to be at least mildly interesting for your listening and watching enjoyment. First I hit you up with some stream of consciousness thoughts from a night out in Boston. Then it's Ernie, the attorney, his own self, Ernie Stinson of law firm Autopilot. We talked with Ernie about what your law firm, AI tech stack should look like, and he is got some product recommendations for you all. Finally, Ernie tries to guess where I've been in the world. It's like the old Carmen San Diego show, only stupider. Now let me tell you about that one time I left my house. (00:51): So last night I'm still a bit tired. I went to a concert at North Bank Pavilion in Boston. This is actually where I had my law school graduation, and it's a nice waterfront venue that has changed names about 16 times since I was first there. Corporate naming rights. This is in the Seaport district of Boston, which is probably the nicest part of Boston now. They've done a whole lot of work there in the last 20 years and there's a conference center there that's huge now. So take note Cleo People as you arrive for Cleo Con in 2025. So why was I at North Bank Pavilion in Boston? So I took my daughter and her friend to a concert. They both been to concerts before, but this time we went to see someone named Sombr. That's right, I'm really cool. In case you didn't know, and if you haven't heard of this dude, he's about to get real big. (01:57): This particular show we attended had to be moved to a larger venue twice due to ticket demand. So this North Bank pavilion has 5,000 seats and Sombr, the artist said it was the biggest venue he ever played. Taylor Swift just called this guy one of her favorite current artists and I tend to agree he's really good. So if you don't know who Sombr is, he's a 20-year-old singer songwriter, hailing from New York City. His real name is Shane Michael Booth, which he obviously had to change to be a musician. So he derived his stage name from his initials SMB and how he was feeling at the time get it Sombr, he was feeling Sombr. Everyone so stylized just in case you're at a cocktail party and you need to flesh this out as Sombr S-O-M-B-R and it's all in lower case. So I actually like this dude's music. (02:57): I think he's got kind of an eighties sound and I also feel like there's kind of an eighties vibe to a lot of the modern pop stuff. I think Sabrina Carpenter is great also, but she also sounds like she sings eighties song. The eighties Are Back Baby Who Knew Everything Old is New again. So if you want to get into the Sombr catalog a little bit, he's got this song called Undressed, which I really like. It's kind of like that song, somebody that I used to know by Gotya, which was a huge hit. I think it went to number one. And he kind does a little bit of this dreamy, fantastical pop, A little bit emo, but that's okay. And he writes his own stuff, which is great. I like it when somebody's a singer songwriter and they're not afraid to write their own songs. (03:45): And this dude's been writing songs since he was like 16, apparently he just turned 20 the other day. So some of his other big songs are back to Friends We never dated and 12 to 12. So he wrote prominence on YouTube, much like other artists like Justin Bieber and he had a song called Caroline that apparently went viral overnight after it recorded it and got like 200,000 views and he started getting calls from record agencies. He's going to get stage presence and he's got the rockstar look. He's kind of like a cross between Tyson Ritter from All American Rejects and a young Mick Jagger. So anyway, this dude is a big thing, so watch out. He's going to be huge. Last two things at the show, he calls people on stage to FaceTime with their exes to ask them why they broke up, which is a fucking fantastic conceit, honestly. (04:41): And now I want to steal it for this podcast, although I'm not sure how I'm going to be able to do it. Well, I guess I just outlined time. I'm going to be able to do it. Now the question is who I do it with FairWarning future guests at our show, the show, the concert we went to last night, we got the first lesbian relationship he ever had. So everybody was very excited about that. Then the second time he brought somebody up on stage, the two people decided to get back together. It was crazy, just amazing stuff. That was probably my favorite part of the concert actually. But the best thing to happen at the show was that right around the halfway mark, he's like, oh, my parents are here tonight. It's the biggest venue I've ever played. I want to thank my mom. And so the lady sitting right next to us, like waves to him. So we were sitting right next to Saber's mom at the show. So then I said she should call herself Mber, right? (05:41): If she doesn't, she definitely should. Pregnant. Pause, please clap. Now, before the show, I took my daughter and her friend out to a steak dinner, which is a stupid thing to do with young girls because they only eat croutons. Anyway, my daughter was telling her friend that I was held up twice when I was younger and about what I did, which is true odd dinner conversation, but true. So got me thinking of my recent monologue about YouTube fear porn. I'm obsessed with these YouTube disaster videos. Why is that? Maybe I crave danger. I don't know. Anyway, it's true. I've been held up twice. One time when I was delivering newspapers, that was my job when I was a kid. My first job when I was probably like 10, and then another time when I was probably 17, working as a carriage boy at a grocery store. (06:32): That's right. I started out as a carriage boy, but one day I might be a carriage man. The first time I was held up, it was at knife point, and the second time I was held up was at gunpoint. So got to escalate that. That was fun. Both times I was asked to turn over my wallet and did not do so, and my daughter and pretty much everyone else thinks I'm a crazy asshole for doing that, but here we are. I'm basically the walking, I lived bitch meme. Here's my thesis. A lot of criminals are fucking idiots. I mean, you're holding up a teenager who works at a grocery store. How much money do you think I have, bro? But I guess if you're a tweaker, any money is good money and you're probably not really thinking clearly a lot of the times. So basically both times I got held up, I was basically like, I don't have any money and I'm not giving you my wallet. (07:25): I don't want to go get a new license at a later stage or new debit cards, or he placed the wallet. So you're probably walking up to Ron Cre, my guy, the guy with the gun actually told me he was going to shoot me in the face, but he didn't. He ran off. I guess I was real intimidating or maybe I'm just obstinate dumb and lucky. I don't know for sure, but I've also found that threats of force and violence mostly derive from weak men. When you come up against a bully, the best course of action is always to stand up for yourself. Don't give in. I feel like there's a lesson in there somewhere. So look, I know this was a little bit weird, just amusing, right? I said it would be stream of consciousness, but we're doing a weekly podcast now, and I'm not an ai, so I get tired. Not everything's going to be Finnegan's wake folks. Sometimes you just got to be happy to get Dublins, but Dublins was pretty fucking good too. The snow was general all over Ireland as they say. Okay, let's bring in the homie Ernie, the attorney. That's Ernie, the attorney, not Ernie, a burden. Ernie fame, his shit's been canceled. He's probably out panhandling somewhere trying to save people from their own stupidity doing God's work over there. Let me now slip into bed and get into something more comfortable and we'll bring in Ernie. (08:55): Well, I've effectively run out of things to say, which is awkward because this is a podcast. So I'm just going to eat several dozen beignets by myself and potentially snort some of the powdered trigger too. Don't judge me. Okay, now I'm just fucking with you. That sounds awful, actually, that sounds really great, but we should talk to our guest. Anyway, our guest today, his first appearance on this show is Ernie Spenson of law firm Autopilot. Ernie, welcome. Ernie Svenson (09:24): Yes, it's good to be here, Jared. I'm very excited about this. I have no idea what's going to happen, but then I never really do and we get together. So Jared Correia (09:33): Yes, which is great. As people may note, I am Hatless today, Ernie's picking up the hat slack with this. Ernie Svenson (09:41): Is that a Margaritaville hat? It is a Margaritaville hat, and that's where I'm going to be moving to a 55 plus community in about six months. So I thought you'd be wearing a hat. I figured I'd wear my hat, but hey, so it's a one hat show. Jared Correia (09:54): I'm so jealous. Yeah, I'm usually hatted as people know, but as you can probably tell, I'm talking to you from a shower of a hotel room. No, I'm actually sitting in the bed of the hotel. Ernie has joined me for the most intimate podcast session we'll ever have. Just my last weekend, Ernie, last time around, we had Kristen Kenzie on the show last week actually, and she was great. And so the reason we had her on the show basically was because she had written something on LinkedIn and she mentioned you and I was like, oh, Ernie's great. And she's like, oh, Ernie's awesome. And I was like, Hey, let's do a podcast together, which spurred me to invite you on as well. So she said some really nice things about you on the show. So I don't know if you feel compelled now to say some nice things about her, but if you do feel free, Ernie Svenson (10:45): Oh, that's easy. Okay, no, cool. I mean, so Kristen I met because I don't know, somehow I was alerted to the fact that she was leaving a corporate job that she turns out didn't love as many of us, and she was kind of pretty raw about what she didn't like on LinkedIn. I thought, boy, she's got some sas. I like this person. She's not afraid to speak the brutal truth. And I reached out to her, joined her email list, and then there was this stealth mastermind thing that you could supposedly join, but really not. And so I applied anyway, and then she said, what's kind of unusual? You came in, so through some weird portal, but she liked the answers I gave on my forearm and we talked. I was like, yeah, yeah, of course. I want to join a community that's run by Kristen and it's a wonderful community. The people there are great. She's great. I've learned a lot, but mostly I get to hang out with somebody I really like. She's a good Jared Correia (11:42): Person. I like how you are basically stealth mastermind. Nope, I'm going to hack this. Well done. Yeah, right now, did you do that yourself or did you inquire of ai how to hack into the stealth mastermind? Ernie Svenson (11:57): It was pretty easy to hack into it. She had a link live in her email that she didn't realize was there, which apparently nobody else was clicking. Jared Correia (12:06): That's awesome. I love that. That was my little segue. Can we talk a little bit about ai? I know you're doing a lot of stuff in this space, particularly with generative ai, and you work with a ton of attorneys. We've had joint clients before. You know your shit. What are you doing right now with lawyers with generative ai? What are you telling them to do? What are you teaching Ernie Svenson (12:29): Them? Yeah, well, I started a workshop at the beginning of this year and I called it a workshop. Even though really what it is is an ongoing, we meet twice a week. It's more like, I guess a counseling session. I dunno, group therapy, and we just talk about what's working and what isn't, and it's been really helpful to them for sure because they say that, but it's also been awful to me because I think the best way to learn AI besides just using it, which is the best way, if you don't have the next step, the next step is to confer with other people who are also using it more or less in the same ways that you want to use it. So lawyers should be talking to the lawyers and when they talk to the lawyers, it breaks down some of the walls that people have with mindset or with different things, and they'll say, oh, okay, if that lawyer's trying it and they're getting these results, well I'm willing to try it. (13:17): So they've mutually elevated each other in a really powerful way. That's just great to watch. But I learned a lot too, because that's how you learn AI is you talk to other people and some people say they're doing something. I think, oh, I hadn't thought of that. Okay, let's try that. A lot of experimenting really is how you get to a better place. You try things and if they work, keep trying them, they don't work, you try something else. So I think creativity is part of what's going on with ai. You just have to think more like a creative person than a rigid automaton. No precepts here. This is all being discovered and developed as we try it. So there's no frameworks. I mean, yeah, there's some frameworks you can try, but really it boils down to do it, see what works for you, try new things, talk to the people that are trying new things. That's what works Jared Correia (14:08): Sort of tough gig where you're like, lawyers be creative and go and then they're like, well, what's the precedent? Is there some law rule that I should apply here? Ernie Svenson (14:18): Do Jared Correia (14:18): You have that issue or do you find that people, once they get into it, by people, I mean lawyers, they can get creative? Ernie Svenson (14:25): Yeah, I mean to me, creativity. I think of it as with music. I learned to play piano by ear, by guitar by ear. I had a friend who taught me the songs I wanted to learn because I didn't have the ear to figure 'em out. But after a while, I learned, lo and behold, there are frameworks under that music stuff like three chords. If you start in Kia G, you're going to have a C and a D in there. It's the same ai. There is some structure to it, but you're not going to learn if you learn the structure, that's not going to help you if you will write the songs. What you need to do is figure out what you're trying to say, what you're trying to do. I mean, my favorite explanation of country music or writing songs comes from Willie Nelson. He goes, it's three chords. (15:11): And the truth, the truth is the hard part, but three chords is the easy part. It's like figuring out what you want to do, what you want to say. That's creativity, and lawyers can do that. That's what you do when you write a brief. Yeah, there's the formulaic part, but there's also the, well, this argument needs to go in front of that one. You got to say it this way, that judge doesn't want to hear this. All of that is creativity, and you learn what works and what, when you're exposed to things and you realize, okay, that didn't work. There's nobody that can lay out the path for you for any of the things that matter in life, and you follow the white line down the middle and you get to nirvana. That's not realistic. But I think lawyers, we talk ourselves into thinking we're not creative because yes, of course we want to follow some format if we have to, and we have to follow some rules, but that doesn't mean you can't be creative, right? True, Jared Correia (16:03): Yes, in theory and some get there theory. Yes. That's a great Willie Nelson line, by the way. Ernie Svenson (16:10): Oh, you hadn't heard that before. Jared Correia (16:13): I may have heard it from you at some point, but it's excellent. I dunno if you know Harry Chapin at all. Ernie Svenson (16:18): Yeah, of course. Sure. Jared Correia (16:20): Well, not everybody does, sadly. He was talking one time about trying to convert one of his songs to a country song, so he was like, okay, I realized I need to have a cheating spouse in this song because the song already had a truck, which is I think also a pretty good way to write a country song. Ernie Svenson (16:36): Right? Well, that's also the perfect country and western song thing with Steve Goodman. You know Jared Correia (16:44): That, right? Yes. You want to tell people? Yeah, yeah. Ernie Svenson (16:47): Okay. Well, it's Jared Correia (16:49): Doing country music, everybody. Ernie Svenson (16:50): Yes. So David Allen Coe, he's singing the song or he sees the song and Steve Goodman wrote and he goes, well, it's okay, but it doesn't have anything about trucks or cars. Your mama are getting drunk or going to prison. It's like, I got drunk today. My mama got out of prison. I went to pick her up in the rain, but before I could get there in my pickup truck, she got run over by a damn whole train. So then he says, okay, now it's the perfect country in Western Jared Correia (17:16): Song. Amazing number one hit. Yeah. Let me ask you this. So with these lawyers in your group and other lawyers you talked to, what do you think attorneys want to achieve right now with ai? I know the big firms are out there building their own models and custom GPTs and stuff, but what are smaller firm attorneys trying to get done in reality? Ernie Svenson (17:38): I think in reality, and it might be a few different things that are minor, but I think the big thing that most of them want is somebody or something to help them do a lot of the trivial work that they're caught up with (17:53): And straight up linear automation doesn't really work. It's expensive and it requires attention that they don't want to give it, and it's not all purpose, and then hiring a VA is challenging and you got to train the va. So when they look at it like, wait, I can hire basically AI to do a lot of things that I'm doing on a one-off basis or here and there, or even obviously workflows that happen repetitively AI can help with, and so they just need to know how to wrap their head around making that happen. That's why when they talk to each other about what they're doing with it, it's an explosion of realization because they realize, okay, really the limitation here is my imagination. That's the limit. And so they need to try more things and they see how the lawyer's doing it, so that's it. I think they think of, well, I don't need to hire a VA or I can hire one after I figure out this AI stuff, but they want somebody or something that can help. Solos don't have a lot of resources, time, money, energy. So anything that can help them leverage the resources that they have is a big thing, and that's what AI is once they figure out how to get going with it. Jared Correia (19:07): You think cost has anything to do with this? I think lawyers are cost sensitive, especially small firm attorneys, and you can jump into chat GBT for free or any of these other general, or you get a $20 a month subscription, Ernie Svenson (19:21): And Jared Correia (19:21): That's relatively short money. Now, I know it's in the popular guys and everybody's talking about AI all the time, but do you think it's a cost thing too for people? Ernie Svenson (19:31): I mean for the higher end stuff, there are obviously lawyer specific tools that you can use that cost $200, 2 50, 300, Jared Correia (19:40): Whatever. Well, that's really the question for me. You've seen people using those. Are you still seeing people just fucking around on chat GPT? What's the breadth of Ernie Svenson (19:47): Usage? I think that they're more willing to use one of those tools that costs a hundred fifty, two hundred, three hundred, whatever, when they see what they can get out of a $20 a month tool, and they realize like, well wait a minute. Okay, so if that's working here, then there's a service called View IQ that one of our members raved about. So we brought the guy in from View IQ and he explained how it works, and it was like it hoovers through medical records, and so anybody needs to hoover through medical records. This tool is really good, and it helped them. A lot of lawyers wouldn't pay them whatever it is, a hundred dollars a month or something, but when they heard other lawyers talking about it, heard the founder explaining what they do to put the guardrails on and check on it, they're like, okay, 20 a month is only going to get me so far. I need to step it up if I have that need. So I think the $20 a month is a gateway stepping stone. Jared Correia (20:43): Yeah, that's fair. Okay, let me ask you this. I feel like you'd have something like this off the top of your head. Give me your top three to five AI tools that you like Ernie Svenson (20:52): Right now. Yeah, I can do Jared Correia (20:53): That and maybe it changes every day, I don't know, might change every day. Ernie Svenson (20:57): Well, these tools don't change in the sense that you'd get rid of them. The first one, which, and these tools are supplemental in some sense. In other words, voice to text is essential for AI because the more you can have a conversation or do the back and forth thing, the faster you're, you're going to not feel burdened cognitively in talking to it, and that's what you need to do. It's not you set up something and ask it and it gives you the answer. That's not how AI works. You have to refine this search, give it more context. So anything that impedes that flow is bad and typing impedes that flow speaking and having it understand does not impede the flow. It accelerates it. So you can go click on the little microphone button, but the little microphone buttons and whatever, various computers as good as those AI tools are that are built into whatever to not as good as whisper flow, whisper flow spelled without the H-W-I-S-P-R flow is like $15 a month. (21:57): Oh my God. Or maybe it's 12, I forget. 12 to 15, oh my God. It changes everything. You push a button on your keyboard, you start blabbering, let go. It spits it out and it can understand context of what you're saying or context of where you're typing. So it's not just good for ai, but it's amazing for ai. And so the people who use it, this is one of the things, I know you've seen this before, people say, well, yeah, I don't know. Do I really need that? And there's a lot of things where I think, okay, yeah, text expander was cool. A lot of people thought they didn't need it, and then when they try it, they're like, wow, this is great, but this is text expander five x, because text expander, you got to be setting up all those little things when a lot of it's just you doesn't want to blabber and have it spit it out. Well, that's what whisper flow does. So everyone who finally gets over the very small speed bump of learning whisper flow goes, oh my God, this changes everything. Yes, you're right. It does. So that one for number one, whisper Jared Correia (22:53): Flow, that's awesome. You got to do Ernie Svenson (22:54): More. Number two is granola. And granola is a meeting note taking app that comes to meetings or you can run it off your phone and the obvious question is why get another one? There's like a thousand of these meeting apps, but this one is better. It's just, and everyone who uses it, and especially if they've had comparison to other tools, they realize that it's better. It's better for a lot of reasons, but two are one. The first one is that it doesn't have to join your meeting as a bot, and people are annoyed with bots joining meetings now. So it just kind of, here's what you're saying through the computer system and here's what the other person's saying. Jared Correia (23:37): That's cool. Ernie Svenson (23:37): And it doesn't record audio. It just live grabs the transcript and then when the meeting's, it automatically creates a summary. The summaries are far superior to anything else out there. Well, maybe not far noticeably superior to fireflies, fathom, whatever. And you can also take your own notes in the little panel that it gives you and it will incorporate whatever you deem accordant into the notes it generates. That's cool. You can tailor the type of notes that it creates for different types of meetings and it's taken off. It's been listed in a bunch of different places. It's the darling of tech founders and it's clearly going to make money and do well. So it definitely stands out and I'm not even paying for it. They give you 25 free meet notes and then somehow they're not charging you and not charging a lot of other people. Hey, we can Jared Correia (24:31): Cut that part out if you want. Ernie Svenson (24:32): I don't want the Jared Correia (24:33): Gravy train to stop for you. Ernie Svenson (24:35): No, no, it shouldn't stop. But I would happily pay it's $18 a month when they figure out I will happily pay them the $18 a month. Jared Correia (24:44): Those are two great ones. Do you want to do one more? Ernie Svenson (24:48): Well, the one I always tell people is what we've already talked about, which is chatt pt, but chat TPT plus where you pay the $20 a month because (24:57): If you're not paying, you're not getting the privacy features, you're not getting access to other things that make it super useful. Being able to create your own gpt, which are essentially like SOP workflow type things. And that's a little hard to wrap your head around at first, but that's what we mostly talk about in this group. We are talking about how to create things that look like SOPs, but they really, the AI is going to do the things that you need done that particular type of job, and you can obviously modify what needs to be done because you converse with it. So chat, GPT plus, if you're not paying for any AI tool, start there. Jared Correia (25:35): That's good one. Alright, good list. Alright. Let me ask you this. I've been thinking about this a little bit lately. If I was starting a brand new firm and I had no technology built in whatsoever, what would I do? Do you think lawyers should try to go AI only tech at this point? Is there enough of that? So what would you do? I'm interested in your thoughts on this. Ernie Svenson (25:57): Okay, so I mean, when people apply to join my program, I have them fill out a 50 questions assessment of what they're using, and then I make recommendations based off of that and they're here. Again, if people are not using Calendly or some kind of automated scheduling service, I'm like, you must use this. Everybody needs to use automated scheduling, and if you're not using one, then pick Calendly. There are others, but that's the one I think is best. Then the other one is Loom, because asynchronous communication with people, clients, other lawyers, staff, whatever, and the ability to explain something where you're on camera if you want to be. That's not the most critical thing, but a lot of times it's showing what's on your screen or about what you can show on your screen that gives people better context more easily. And making videos is for some reason intimidating to a lot of people, but if you get to the point where you're just making them to guide your assistant or whatever, and you're just used to it, it's not that hard to jump from that to making a video for TikTok or whatever. So Loom is an essential communication tool in the modern world, those two. Jared Correia (27:10): Okay. Let me ask you this part of it too, because I think some lawyers are looking at it in this way as well. So am I buying AI to replace staff? Am I buying AI to replace certain staff functions or am I buying AI to not hire more staff or all of the above? Ernie Svenson (27:30): It's going to be all the above depending on what people want. But I'll say that I think that the staff of the future that you want to have are going to need to use ai because AI used properly is an amplifier of ability of cognitive ability. So if your assistant can use ai, that's going to make them a better assistant and you may find that you don't need to hire somebody else, you just need to make your assistant more effective. But to be able to guide your assistant if they're not using AI or to guide other assistants, you need to know something about how it works. So you should be using it too, plus you're going to need to use it. So you need to use it. Your assistants need to use it, and I think that over time people are going to find that. They'll say, well, I thought I was going to need to hire people, but I'm not going to hire people. I can do most of it myself, and that's good enough for now. But if you do hire, you're going to want to hire people or train them to use ai. That for sure, Jared Correia (28:29): Obviously there's a human component to this, and I'm not thrilled about being like, Hey, fire everybody, but I have had a lot of attorneys talk to me and say, Hey, I've got my staff. I don't want to rehire anyone. I want my staff to be totally AI based in the next 10, 15 year period, which I don't know how viable that is. Could be viable. We'll see. But that's what a lot of people are telling me. So I guess we'll see where that goes. Ernie Svenson (28:59): Well, I mean, what's probably going to happen, if you think about how technology has caused some disruption in firms, there are the battleax people who are like, I can't deal with this new thing. I don't want to be paid brothers. I don't use the cloud. And then they either leave because they're too frustrated or when the time comes and they leave, you know what you want to optimize for with the next hire. Or in the case of ai, you may not need to hire new people. So I don't think it's going to cause people to get fired. I just think it's a new tool that needs to be exploited by everyone who's putting hands on a computer keyboard. It's like a no brainer Jared Correia (29:36): Or I guess a phone keyboard. I know you're a big advocate of people using smartphones. I got one more question for you in the regular segment of the show. Alright. How do you feel about the positioning from ethics attorneys and ethics boards of ai? Have you looked into that at all? Ernie Svenson (29:56): If what we're talking about is the usual siren call of look out, it's going to cause all kinds of problems. Oh, look, you over there in the distance, there's a person who did a horrible thing that, okay, I'm going to take the first guy, the pioneer who, we won't name his name, but the guy who cied cases that were completely made up. (30:16): I mean, I'm sorry. Look, when I was a law clerk to a federal judge and attorneys would cite cases, surprise, surprise, either the cases were sighted usually because of a transposition of digits, but in a few cases the case didn't exist. And so this problem has been going on for a long time, so we can't, to frame it as an AI problem is the wrong framing. It's a framing of the human beings who are either incompetent, which there's a lot or unethical, which sadly, there's also a fair number. And so go after those people for their incompetency and lack of ethics in general, AI just exposed the problem in some cases. Jared Correia (30:57): Yeah, I think that's a good way to look at it. It's interesting. I have talked to more firms than I've been surprised at how many firms are like, Hey, we have a no AI usage policy at all, which I think is nuts because I'm like, luck. What do you think is happening? Well, yeah, it was funny. I was talking to a lawyer who shall remain nameless about the firm policy, and this person was like, oh, the firm policy is like, no ai. And I'm like, so what do you do? He's like, I just take my stuff and I put it into my own chat. GPT account. What's going on? Anyway? Right. Of course, horses out of the barn. Anything we missed? Anything you want to say? Anything you want to plug before we finish this segment and move on to the next one? People should go to your AI mastermind group, your AI workshop. How can they do that? Ernie Svenson (31:44): There's a five question form that people fill out and they ask 'em what they're using, and then I send 'em information and they put 'em in a free email, a thing that teaches them what they need to know for free, if they want that, if they want to join the program, I send 'em links and they can look into that and join if they want to. Jared Correia (32:04): Not stealth links, easy links to Ernie Svenson (32:06): Find. No. Mine are very clearly open to the people that want to join. Jared Correia (32:13): Thanks, Ernie. I appreciate it. You want to come back for the last segment? Ernie Svenson (32:16): Sure. Jared Correia (32:17): What's the last segment? Oh, you'll find out in seconds. We'll be right back. Everybody grab your passports. Hi everybody. Welcome back. Here we are. It's the counter program for my hotel bed. It's a podcast within a podcast. This is a conversational space where we can address usually unrelated that I want to explore at a greater depth of my guests. Expect no rhyme and very little reason. Ernie, welcome back. Thanks for hanging out. Of course. We are running through a new segment with you for the first time I'm calling you. We're in the world is Jared Korea. It's like where in the world is Carmen San Diego? Because my last name is a place name too, but I do not have an acapella group to sing me in. So Ernie? Ernie Svenson (33:07): Yes. Jared Correia (33:08): I was inspired because I'm traveling as I do this show, so I want to give you a clue about a random place I've been, and you just need to pick the correct answer from the options based on said clue. It's easy. You're a well traveled guy, including on the open sea, so I'm hoping that we've been to some of the same places. Ernie Svenson (33:28): Okay, let's give it a shot. Jared Correia (33:30): First question I have for you, Ernie, is where am I right now? You can see the Delta Center from my hotel window. Do you need multiple choice or do you know where I am in the world right now? Ernie Svenson (33:46): I mean, I know because somebody told me. I mean, I kept, yeah, we a little bit. This one, I think you're in Salt Lake City. I think you're in Salt Lake City, correct? Correct. I was in Salt Lake City, Jared Correia (33:59): One for one. Ernie Svenson (33:59): I get it. Oh, do I win a car or something? Forgetting on the face? Jared Correia (34:03): No, we don't have shit for prizes, but Ernie Svenson (34:06): You have my Jared Correia (34:06): Undying respect. You do have that. Ernie Svenson (34:09): Okay. Jared Correia (34:10): But I thought this would give you an opportunity to talk a little bit about the New Orleans Jazz, if you wish. Feel free. Ernie Svenson (34:17): The team that went to Salt Lake City and became the Utah Jazz. Jared Correia (34:21): Yes. Ernie Svenson (34:24): Obvious due to the amazing jazz culture here in Jared Correia (34:26): Salt Lake City. Ernie Svenson (34:27): Yes. It's very unsettling to people in New Orleans that not only is the jazz name in another city, but it's not even a city that really is known for any kind of jazz. I mean, New York has jazz, LA has jazz. There's jazz in a lot of places. People do not think Salt Lake City when they think of jazz appropriately. But I saw the Center. I've been in the center there at Salt Lake. It's a beautiful building. I love the people of Salt Lake, and it would be too late to change the name of the Pelicans to Salt Lake City, and besides the pelicans are kind of bad, and who knows, maybe they'll move someplace else. Anyway, you could swap. Yeah, right. As long as the team that exists over there comes with it, that would be a good spot. Jared Correia (35:16): All right. We're one for one. Moving on. The place I'm at in America now is Terry's Bison Ranch. Terry's Bison Ranch, and I've talked about this on the show. So where do you think I am? Am I in Cheyenne, Wyoming, Butte, Montana, or Bismarck, South Dakota. Where is Terry's Bison Ranch, Wyoming, Montana, or Ernie Svenson (35:41): South Dakota? It could be any one of those places. Couldn't you throw in Jackson, Mississippi. Peoria, Illinois. Jared Correia (35:52): I gave you the answer for the first one. Ernie Svenson (35:55): I know you did. Okay, well, alright. This one's harder. I'm going to go with Bismarck. Total Jared Correia (36:01): Guess. Oh, good guess. Cheyenne, Wyoming. I took my daughter to the Bison Ranch and we had a harrowing experience on the bison tree. I made the rest of 'em a little bit easier. That was too hard. I feel bad. Alright, I'm at Hadlock Field, home of the Minor League baseball. Sea dogs. Sea dogs. Where am I? Am I in Portland, Maine? Am I in Des Moines, Iowa, or am I in Fort Worth, Texas? Ernie Svenson (36:33): Well, clearly you're in Portland. Portland, Maine. There's no way those too easy, too easy. Jared Correia (36:41): I'm trying to calibrate on the fly. It's not going well. Okay. Yeah. Ernie Svenson (36:46): Coastal town with water. I'm going to go with Jared Correia (36:51): Two for three. I was in Portland last weekend before I came up to Salt Lake. All right. I'm now at the flagship Bass Pro Shops headquarters of Bass Pro Shops. Where am I? Am I in Springfield, Missouri? Am I in Temecula, California, or am I in Charlotte, North Carolina, Ernie Svenson (37:16): Springfield, Missouri. Jared Correia (37:18): Correct. Did you know that off the top of your Ernie Svenson (37:20): Head? I felt like I knew it was in some central part, so I would've guessed Missouri first. I definitely would not have gone with Temecula, so Charlotte could have fooled me, but yeah. Have you been to the, are you a Bass Pro shops guy or no? I have been at a couple of different Bass Pro shops. I think they're amazing, but there was one the in Near Branson, Missouri. Am I right? Is the Branson Missouri Airport also a Bass Pro shop? I think it is. I think the whole thing is basically not the usual scale Bass Pro shop, but a miniature Bass Pro shop in that airport. Is that right? Jared Correia (38:01): Yes. And then, yeah, so Springfield and Branson are pretty close to each other. Ernie Svenson (38:05): That's why Jared Correia (38:06): I, I've been to Missouri more times. I can count. So you go to Springfield and they usually drive to Branson? Yeah, it's in Springfield. Ernie Svenson (38:14): Good Jared Correia (38:15): Call, man. I'm impressed. Ernie Svenson (38:16): The other thing I remember about that airport, go ahead. If anybody ever winds up there, and I think it was because I went to the Missouri bar, and that's the airport that probably would've been, why I remember is it's a small airport. It's a very small airport, and there's only two doors that you can go through to get to the tarmac, and it doesn't really matter. The doors bleed to the same place. There can only be one plane taking off or loading passenger at a time, but anyway, when you leave, the person who loaded you goes out onto the tarmac as the plane leaves and waves goodbye to the plane. It's beautiful, man. Yeah, Jared Correia (38:52): It is beautiful. See, this is why I wanted to do this with you, because I know you've been to a lot of places. You've probably got some travel stories. All right, next one. There we go. I am at the House of Aliens Souvenir Shop on West First Street, house of Aliens, souvenir Shop. Where am I? Am I in Roswell, New Mexico? Ernie Svenson (39:11): I can. Yeah, of course you are. That's exactly where you are. I was going to guess that if you hadn't said anything else, it has to be Roswell. Where else could it be now, have you been to Roswell before? I have not. I've driven close, but I definitely feel like it would be kind of cool to go to Area 51, but not at the perimeter. Somehow you got to sneak in and you got to be better at sneaking than I was to get into the stealth Mastermind. Those old tricks Jared Correia (39:38): Aren't going to work. I went to the Roswell Alien Museum maybe 25 years ago, and I met the guy who was the doctor who supposedly did the physicals on the dead alien bodies, and this guy was completely convinced that it was real. It was nuts. Ernie Svenson (39:57): Well, if he was actually touching alien bodies and wasn't hallucinating, I would think he would be convinced. If he was hallucinating, he would be convinced Jared Correia (40:05): Heavy LSD user, but I'm sure he was telling the truth. No. Who's to say reality is? I knew this would go well. Okay, got another one for you? Okay. This is one for you. This is one for you. I'm at the original Raising Canes restaurant location. The mothership is what they call it, raising canes. Ernie Svenson (40:31): Where am I? Yeah, in Jared Correia (40:31): Lafayette, Louisiana. Not bad. Very nice. Ernie Svenson (40:35): Are you a Jared Correia (40:35): Raising Canes Ernie Svenson (40:36): Fan? I'm not a fan, and I'm a fan. It's fine, but I think one of the founders who started it is a lawyer. Was a lawyer because I think he clerked at our office. Oh, I didn't realize that. I remember when really this was all coming. Yeah. I remember him saying, yeah, I've got this thing and I'm starting, and then of course, surprise, surprise, he enjoyed doing that and didn't practice a lot. I'm pretty sure that's true. Or I could have hallucinated it like the guy in Roswell, New Mexico, but I know it's based in Lafayette that I know Jared Correia (41:10): Ernie. Who knows what reality is. My kids are obsessed with raising cans, and they made me go there all the time, but when I talk to adults about raising canes, they're like, wait, just chicken tenders and french fries and has the entire menu? I'm like, yeah. They're like, sounds terrible. Alright, I think I'm going to do one more, maybe two more, depending on how I feel. This is one you may know. I am at Standing on the Corner park, standing on the corner park. Have you heard of this? I know Ernie Svenson (41:44): Exactly where this, of course, I do Jared Correia (41:46): Go. Ernie Svenson (41:46): The famous Eagle song, which I listened to just the other day Jared Correia (41:50): Here in Ernie Svenson (41:51): Winslow, Arizona. Jared Correia (41:54): Winslow Arizona. The statue, I guess, is supposed to look like Glenn Fry, but does not. Ashley Glenn Fry. Ernie Svenson (42:02): Oh, really? Oh, okay. I haven't seen it, so I had a pine. Jared Correia (42:06): They have a whole little corner park, and then there's a little statue that it sounds like it was supposed to be just like some random dude, but then when Glenn Fry died, they may look like Glenn Fry. All right. Let's do one more. I'm having fun. I'm at the Wright Brothers National Memorial, the Wright Brothers National Memorial, Ernie Svenson (42:28): North Carolina, Kittyhawk, North Carolina. Jared Correia (42:30): Okay. Okay. Actually killed Devil Hills is where it's located, which I was surprised to learn also because I thought it was Kittyhawk. Also, we lived to educate. Ernie Svenson (42:43): I don't think I would try to fly a Jared Correia (42:45): Plane in a Ernie Svenson (42:46): Place called Kill. Jared Correia (42:49): I know. I know. Not a great idea. Ernie Svenson (42:52): No, Jared Correia (42:53): No. It's cool. The Outer Banks is fun, but yeah, I thought it was Kitty Hawk too, but I think Kitty Hawk is where they flew out of where they had the first flight, but I'll look that up. We'll have our researcher, which we don't employ work on that. Ernie, thanks for coming in, man. I had a great Ernie Svenson (43:13): Time. I did too, as always. Next time, let's go even further with the testing of the perception of Realities, Jared Correia (43:25): So when this show releases y'all, Ernie and I will be hanging around Boston that week for Cle Con, so make sure to come find us. Ernie Svenson (43:34): Yes, do please. Jared Correia (43:36): All right. Thanks, Ernie. We'll talk soon. Thanks for our guest, Ernie Benson of Law Firm Autopilot. To learn more about Ernie, visit Ernie the attorney.net old school. Shit, Ernie the attorney.net. That's right. Check it out now, because I'll always be a nineties kid trying to stitch together an outfit for myself, like one of the ones that the Thundercat wore, but whose true passion is burning CDs for anyone who would listen. I'm now just doing the modern equivalent of that, which is creating Spotify playlist for every podcast episode that I record when the signs are tangentially related to an episode topic. This week's playlist is songs about the places you'll go. Maybe even signs about the Places I'll go I have Gone is sponsored by the estate of Dr. Seuss. I'm just kidding. By the way, please don't sue us, Teddy G or Audrey G or their extended families. We're just fans over here. Join us next time. When I tell you about the Butter Battle book That's right. It is a lesser known Dr. Seuss book, which is actually an allegory for the nuclear arms race. Well, well T to next time.