Latest / Hey Docs! / The Blueprint to Practice Design with Blue Frog’s Shawn Rainey

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The Blueprint to Practice Design with Blue Frog’s Shawn Rainey · Hey Docs!

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Haydocks Podcast with your host Jill Allen.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Today I am joined by Sean Rainey, Director of Design
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: at Blue Frog. Shawn helps guide orthodonic practices through one
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: of the most complex parts of a startup, designing and
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: building a space that actually supports how the practice will
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: function long term. From choosing the right delivery model to
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: evaluating spaces and avoiding hidden costs. Sean brings a practical
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: perspective on decisions that can significantly impact both timeline and budget.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: In this episode, we're diving into what doctors should understand
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: before signing a lease and how to approach the design
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: process with clarity and confidence. So let's take a look
• 0:47
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• 0:50
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• 1:40
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• 1:44
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• 1:47
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• 1:50
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• 1:55
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• 1:59
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• 2:02
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• 2:06
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• 2:10
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• 2:14
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• 2:17
  Speaker 1: more chairs as your cash flow grows.
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: It's pretty smart.
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: As an orthodonist, you care about getting all the little
• 2:25
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• 2:29
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• 2:33
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• 2:37
  Speaker 1: worth a closer look. Just follow the link in the
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: show notes to learn more. Sean, I am so excited
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: to have you on Haydocks. Thanks for being here today, right.
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: To be here. Thank you so much for having me
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: absolutely well.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: I'm sure you know this, but the way I love
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: to start off Haydocks is when I've had a guest
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: that's not been on the show before. I love it
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: if you would just start out and talk to us
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: a little bit about who you are, your background, and
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: a little bit about Blue Frog.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: Sure so me, I got out of high school and
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: went right into the army for a few years. And
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: after I came out of that, a personal connection got
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: me into the design field and home design. This is
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: back in the mid nineties. And then another connection at
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: one point brought me up to Atlanta to work for
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: at Atlanta Design, which is a division of Atlanta Dental
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: Supply now, and I work there for kind of on
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: and off for almost fifteen years, doing pretty much just
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: dental office design and running the architectural department there for
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: a while. Then I was hired by Blue Frog back
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: in twenty eleven to come on and create a design
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: build company. So they were a bid build company at
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: the time, and what was funny was they had been
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: building a lot of the dental offices that we would
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: design over at Atlanta Design, so they knew me and
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: they kind of poached me from over there, which nobody liked.
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: But it's going on fifteen years here at Blue Froll
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: which is crazy to think that it's been that long,
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: but it's been a blessing. And so now I'm the
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: director of the design department. We have architect here, multiple
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: design PMS drafters, we have a civil engineering firm here
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: as well. So it took me a bit to figure
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: out what is the difference between the normal architecture and
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: bidding process contractors, which is what I was used to
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: up until here too, to them kind of training me
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: and me training them and us becoming a true design
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: build company. So I've been married going on thirty four years.
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: I've got three great kids. Two of them graduated UGA
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: right down the road here in Athens and the other
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: ones in college out in Rome right now playing football,
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: so nice. And I got two Golden Retrievers, So yeah,
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: I love it.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: I love it the whole texture.
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: That's great.
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: Well, we're going to jump right in here, and you know,
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: I've worked with a lot of startups and I think
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: one of the various thing that a doctor is going
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: to do. I mean, it's always scary to think about
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: purchasing a practice, but the component with purchasing is you
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: at least know you've got something because you're getting started.
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: Where when we look at doing startups, I mean there's
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: just you know, from demographics to doors open and everything
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: in between that we have to think about. So one
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: of the things that I want to dive into with
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: you is the whole construction piece of it. And I
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: love your history knowing that you've been in this field
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: for over fifteen years now, because I like you have
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: been doing this for quite a while. We'll be celebrating
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: our twentieth year in the consulting side, where I've been
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: focusing on startups, and it has changed a lot over
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: the years to your point of we see these swings
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: where we're going from bidding out our projects to design builds,
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: And what I really want to get into is how
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: you kind of break that down and really talk about
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: the differences and what that means, and especially I think
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: even now in twenty twenty six and forward, because I
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: even feel like there's been some changes from even how
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: this process might have been done in the last ten
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: years or so as we're seeing things come along, So
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: would you mind breaking that down and pretend we know
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: nothing and you know, taking us back to the difference
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: between the two.
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: Sure, So where I came from was where an architect
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: would an engineering firm would create the design work with
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: a client and create a set of documents, and they
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: would have an idea of what costs were like per
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: square foot, But then site costs you really don't know
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: until you get into it, because the site can be
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: half of the whole cost of the projects if depending
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: on the site. So we would do that and then
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: we would send out the projects to a select group
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: of bidders, and then we'd wait for them to send
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: us bids back, and then we would compare all the
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: bids and we'd be like, hey, I mean I was
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: one of the ones who did it, and I'd be like, okay, hey,
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: you seem to be really high on this one. Well,
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: why are you so high on this line? All these
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: other bidders are here, and you'd be comparing all these
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: different contractors, and then it's also trying to get it
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: into permit, and so because you want the contractors to
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: try to get you pricing up front and narrow down
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: that scope of how many contractors are in it. Like
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: there's times we would send twelve different contractors, which yeah,
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: probably crazy because it's a lot of coordination after the fact,
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: but we might send a preliminary set out to them. Well,
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: the set's not done, so they really don't have enough
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: to go off of to really create a price. They're
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: just throwing a number at it and helping. They're the
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: low guy. And then once we got them in, then
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: we would help the client. And that was because we
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: were very hands on, but we would help the client like, Okay,
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: here's all the contractors. We want you to set up
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: meetings with all of them. We want you to find
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: out who you feel good talking to and who you
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: think you'd work with good. And then we'd go to
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: that contractor and be like, Okay, your price is too high.
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: How much can we get this dropped? You know, he
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: only has this much money, So it's just a long process.
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: So what we've decided to do. There are also some
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: contractors who kind of team up with an architect an
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: engineering firm, and that's there's a lot of design build
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: that's that way as well, and that goes a little
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: faster because they do work together a little bit closer,
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: but there's still two separate companies. So in the end,
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: when you get to the field and the contractors building
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: to something and they go back to the client and say, hey,
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: this wasn't in the plan. Sorry, we got to do
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: a change order for this. So you've got the architect
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: and you got the the builder. They're both pointing each other,
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: and the engineers and the building engineers, a civil engineer,
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: and they're all pointing each other. It's his fault, you know.
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: It's all kind of shifting blame game right there. But
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: no matter what, the doctor is stuck in the middle, like,
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: he's still got to have this. Whatever this has happened,
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: it doesn't matter the architect didn't get it in the plans,
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: because he still has to have it, and now he's
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: got to pay really an up charge most likely for it,
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: because if it was bid in the beginning and it
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: was included, then he would have had it in the
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: price and it would have been a competitive price upfront
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: to try to win the job. But the thing that
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: falls to the wayside nobody thinks about when they're bidding
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: is that the contractor's only going to bid what's in
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: the plans, So there's going to be gaps in the plans,
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: especially if it's not a full set of plans. And
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: the contractor, I mean, they're not trying to Peyton switch,
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: it's just the way the construction world runs, right, So
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: they're going to know off the bat. Okay, these are
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: the gaps in the plans. We're going to end up
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: having to do this stuff later, so there's going to
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: be a change order for later, and they can come
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: back and charge a premium markup for that as well,
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: because you're the client, Like, you don't control this, you're
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: already in it, right, Yeah, the earthwork's been dug, the
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: foundation's down. Oh it didn't realize when needed to steal here,
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: So now you're going to have pay for it no
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: matter what. And it would have been cheaper if it
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: would have been upfront. So the big difference there is
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: that design build like what we do. It is that
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: we're all in the same company. When they hired me,
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: the issue they were having it was because of a
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: pain point of having another architect outside and the architect
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: that one in particular was telling people, Hey, you need
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: to bid this out to other people, just like you
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: told all his other clients. So he was biting the
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: hand that feeds them, which wasn't very smart anyways, But
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: he brought me in to say, I want the advocate
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: for the client to be in the company, like I
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: want them to be able to say, hey, we are
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: going to take care of this for you. This is
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: one of the biggest things that most people will put
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: money towards and invest in their lifetime. Right, So, whether
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: it's a startup practice or you know, once you build
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: your startup practice to a point you need to go
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: build a new building, like that's your biggest investments ever.
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: So our goal is always to take the most stress
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: off the client as possible and make sure that they
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: know they have an advocate in who they're contracting. Right
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: So by having design and House, we're able to go
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: through that whole process with them, and all along that
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: process we have. My estimation department is literally twenty feet
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: away from me. So instead of saying, hey, these are
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: like industry standards we're seeing right now, I can go
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: to them and say how much was that job you
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: did last week? And they have real world numbers and
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: we do full budget estimates a lot of times for us.
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: And our process is that we will get with a
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: client up front and we'll do a test fit plan
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: for them, just a free test fit, yep. We'll take
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: the space they have and we'll determine, Okay, what do
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: you want in the space, how many chairs you want
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: in your bay, how many private rooms you want, how
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: many seven our private A whole questionnaire that we have,
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: but we'll take that, we'll create a whole test fit
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: and then we'll get our estimation department to go and
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: they will actually do takeoffs off of that and do
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: a whole two page breakdown like how much plumbing we
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: think it's going to be, electrical cabinets, all that stuff,
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: how much design's going to be, how much profit we've
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: got in there. Like, it's all very transparent, so we
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: can give that to them, they can take that to
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: the bank, and then our goal is to try to
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: stay as close to that budget as possible the entire
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: way through the design process. So yeah, that's great. As
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: we go through that, we update the budget every single
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: time we have a meeting with client, make changes so
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: that we can tell them, hey, listen, okay, we did this.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: This is how it affected the budget, like specifically, and
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: then by the time we get done with that budget,
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: then the goal is to be within three to five
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: percent of that final budget when we actually bid out
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: the project. So it's totally different in that they are
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: keeping track and they have more control of the budget
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: the entire way through design instead of waiting till the end.
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: One thing that happens in the design bid build arena
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: is that you have to come back and do value engineering.
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: And one of the favorite things I had I had
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: an all architect I knew, and he said, yeah, value
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: engineering is when you cut value out of the project,
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: you know, so it's not necessarily making things better. It's
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: like the HVAC guy says, hey, we can instead of
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: doing spiral you know, ducked up here in the sice
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: open space, we can just do square duck and save
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: you some money. I'm like, great, but that's not the
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: vision we shared with the client and they approve so,
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: but when it's in house, I don't have to do that,
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: So that's financially to me. You're saving money that way
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: and controlling the cost along the whole way. The other
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: thing is speed, So a lot of companies will take
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: and they will develop that kind of preliminary set to
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: get out to permit and get it out to contractors.
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: We do something similar. We will develop a preliminary set
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: that's enough to submit for permit. It's got a whole
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: MEP engineering, mechanical, electrical, plumbing, engineering in it, structural if needed,
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: but that gets sent into permit. And then while it's
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: in permit, we are focusing like a fine tooth column,
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: going through the entire set of drawings. And I mean
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: we may spend forty to fifty hours just reviewing and
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: coordinating those drawings to make sure all the engineers and
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: all the architecture is exactly what it needs to be.
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: And then we also take and we have peer review process.
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: We have another project manage coming there and review it.
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: And then once we do that and make those changes,
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: then we'll come in and we'll have the estimation guys,
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: the procurement guys, and whoever's going to be the OPS
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: manager and the superintendent all come great. We open up
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: all the pages, we flip them and go through the
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: whole set. We're going to take two or three hours
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: with these guys and go through all that. So all
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: of us are in the same company. We're on the
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: same team, and we all care about getting the doctor
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: something that is going to be less stressful at the
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: end of the day for doctor. So in all that,
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: I would say too that because we are bringing all
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: those things together, it means that doctor is not having
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: to control all that and try to order. So yeah,
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: they can go and practice medicine Like it's like a car.
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: Right if I got to go get you know, my
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: transmission replaced or whatever, you were not going to go
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: there and then tell you, hey, you need your transmission
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: replace and Doctor's not going to go home and be like, Okay,
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: I guess I'm going to replace the transmission. Right, He's
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: going to find a mechanice trust and then he's going
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: to have them go replace it while he is busy
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: making people's smiles more beautiful, you know. So it's the
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: same thing here. You really got to find a team.
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: It does take fine in somebody who is knowledgeable in
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: the dental arena and orthodonic arena, especially with startups. I
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: know we're going to talk about a little bit more later,
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: but if somebody just goes and starts to design you
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: something that's gorgeous and beautiful and not practical to you know,
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: what you actually need and your workflow, like it doesn't
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: mean anything. It's just it's nice on paper, but when
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: you get to the office, like it just doesn't matter.
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, and you're going to be the one
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: walking into that office for the next five or ten years,
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: and you're going to be the one who's going to
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: look at that wall or be like, why wasn't this here,
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: you know, why didn't we have some glass here so
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: what I can see through? And there's a lot of
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: things that are so dental and orthodonic specific that by
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: not having somebody that knows that arena and just having
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: somebody else, you know, like in a local architect work
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: on it, it takes away from what you're going to
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: have in the end and the practical use and the
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: amount of money you can make out of the office
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: as well.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. And I always say design is kind
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: of a hard word to use in our industry because
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: it means a lot of different things. And when I
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: talk to my doctors, my goal, my hope is that
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: they will always work with an architectural firm or a
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: design build firm that understands our industry. Because to your point,
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: what I always want is, no matter if we've got
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: a fifteen hundred square foot space or a three thousand
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: square foot space, what we have to first do is
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: really design out the flow and the function. To your point, like,
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: if we don't have that designed out well, and we're
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: using the best use of space in whether it's the
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: fifteen hundred square foot or the three thousand square foot space,
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: number one, you can just be paying for a lot
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: of wasted space. But number two, nobody wants to turn
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: a corner and hit a cabinet. But it looked really
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: cool until you do that ten times and you're like,
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: what in the world what was the design here? So
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: I always say that first level, to your point, is
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: so ridiculously important to get that flow and function figured out,
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: and then you truly bring in that design component, right,
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: that's the pretty wallpaper that we're putting on the wall,
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: or the colors that we're choosing, or the chandelier that
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: we're going to put you know, that's like the lipstick
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: on top. But if we don't have that flow and
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: function figured out, it can really make for a poorly
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: designed practice and something that doesn't seem like you can
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: work well in for years to come. I want to
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: piggyback on something that you said, because I definitely have
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: seen this ebb and flow where for a while everybody
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: felt like and I hear this all the time in
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: the chat groups. Well, I was in there, and you know,
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: people are like, you're really ridiculous if you don't go
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: bid that out to at least three different contractors, or
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: you don't this that or the other. And when we
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: look back around COVID time, I think you and I
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: can both say there was a point where pre COVID
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: it was all about bids, bids, bids, bids, bids, get bids.
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: And then I felt like right around COVID and right after,
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: contractors were not hungry at all, and they're like, if
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: you aren't choosing to work with me right from the beginning,
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: I don't even waste my time. And I think we've
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: kind of come back around and now we've got this
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: really nice balance. And for me personally, as a consultant
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: that works with startups, I absolutely prefer to have a
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: company that we're working with if it all works out
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: that we are doing this design build. And I want
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: you to hear this because if we can know, we
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: know we've got a million dollars coming from the bank
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: if we're doing a startup in our buildout process, and
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: we all think, oh, that seems like so much money.
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: How could I ever spend a million dollars? Well, two
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: thousand square foot space at two thirty a square foot,
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: do the math real quickly you're going to see how fast,
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: just how much of that just goes to construction. Those
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: are just generic numbers for anybody that's listening. But my
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: point is using a company where we're thinking about that
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: from the beginning, where we're thinking about, okay, if our
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: budget is we can't be over two thirty a square foot,
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: we're designing it from the beginning with that number in mind,
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: not designing it and then hoping that it comes in
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: at the two thirty And to your point of that
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: value engineering, Unfortunately, that is a lot of times where
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: you've got this amazing office of your dreams designed out,
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: but the designer, because the a lot of times the
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: designers that people will use don't understand the construction side
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: of it. It looks pretty and that floating ceiling with
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: that you know, it looks like you're in a museum.
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: Looks beautiful until it goes to paper and somebody's like, well,
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: how am I going to build that? You know, So
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: I'm wondering if you can talk a little bit about
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: you and I both know there's a lot of players
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: involved when we're thinking about a project. And again, whether
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: it's a startup or it's your second forever practice, or
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: it could be more than that. But most of the
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: time my docs, it's you know, about eight years in,
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: ten years in we're like, Okay, now it's time to
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: build our forever practice and what is that going to
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: look like? Can you talk a little bit about how
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: everybody plays in and works together and where you see
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: things fall a little bit short. I mean, I've definitely
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: got my opinion on it, but I'd love to hear.
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: Yours in the whole process of things. Yeah, so some
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: of it come back to the space. You know, when
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: you're looking for space, you really need a space that
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: has especially if you're a startup, you don't go get
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: a huge space. You need to have somebody who's on
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: the realty side who understands what you're needing and the
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: amount of power you need the HVAC. There's a lot
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: that goes into that. But picking the right space is
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: one thing that I do see some gaps happening, like
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: they don't have enough HVAC, they don't have enough power.
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: And then as far as the design itself, I've worked
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: with a lot of the different supply companies and they
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: all have design departments. They all actually do a pretty
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: good job most of the time of doing a layout.
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: They're doing that because they have many, many years of
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: experience creating a layout. It's generally formed around the same
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: concepts each time, so it works. And I mean, I'll
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: say this to the people that I've worked with a lot,
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: like if somebody brings us a job and they're planning, like,
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: I'm not a going to going to go downgrade their plan,
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying. They brought the work to us,
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: But I will talk to the doctor about Hey, listen,
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: maybe we can adjust some things here. We're can do
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: some things here and maybe make it a little bit
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: nicer here. But when you go to say a local architect, right,
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: if you go to hire somebody or your friend knows somebody, right,
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: but they've never designed I dental office before, they really
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: don't know what you need. So you are training them
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: what they need to do for you, and it's you're
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: spending your time doing that, right, you're wasting time. So
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: if you can find somebody who really knows the industry,
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: who knows what rooms need to be adjacent to what
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: other rooms automatically to help the flow work better, it
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: works so much easier for you and it makes your
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: life easier. You don't have to take a look at
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: a plan and be like, no, no, no, that's not
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: what I meant, because that adds to the time. So
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: you do have interior designers like you mentioned, and I've
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: worked with a lot of them. We have several here
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: that we work with. So like when somebody comes on
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: design build here, they have the architect they have the engineering,
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: they have the interior design, the structural civil like we
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: take all that on so that the doctors don't have
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: to even worry about that. We just have and sell, hey,
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: this is what we're doing and what do you like,
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: what don't you like? But with interior designer, their focus
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: mainly is on making it look pretty like you said, right,
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: And the problem is when you do kind of how
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: you're engineering, like, those are some of the first things
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: that get cut cabinetry fun finishes right now. Sorry, you
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: can't have til in on the bathroom walls or whatever.
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: So everybody comes at it from whatever their perspective is
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: and whatever their experience is. So that's why it's important,
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: I think, to find somebody who designs dental offices specifically
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: so that they can help guide you, because especially as
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: a startup, like you know what where you've worked for,
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: and you know how they've done it, and that's how
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: you've been trained, because it's kind of like growing up.
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: You know, you do what you've been trained to do.
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: Sometimes you may glean something from the designer you're working with,
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: if they are an industry specific designer, and that may
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: be like, oh, you know, I never thought about that before,
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: and that helps you do something different that you weren't
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: planning on doing, but that helps your efficiency. So somebody
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: who does not know dental and orthodonics is not going
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: to be able to give you that kind of feedback
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: and that kind of input, and then contractors are going
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: to build whatever's in the plans. So yeah, that comes
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: back to it doesn't really matter what the intent was,
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: if the design of the plans and what's in the
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: blueprints don't actually portray what it was that the designer
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: and you talked about. Then it doesn't really matter what
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: you talked about. That all the intent is gone. It's
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: what's in the plant. And that comes down to outlets,
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: like we know where you're out let's need to go right,
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: We know how the HVC needs to be set up,
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: the mechanical system. We know if you're putting an autoclave
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: under a cabinet, you probably need a fan of exhaust
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: fandom to meet there to suck up all the oxygen
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: so you don't destroy the lamited above it.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: So there's a lot of just little bitty intricate things
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: that go with an orthodonic practice or dental practice. So
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: those things are going to get lost if you go
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: to somebody that does not know the practice, They're going
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: to be over there on chad GPT like, hey, how
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: do I design a dental office? You know what are
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: the I mean I'm being but.
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: A two point There could be some of that going
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: on though.
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: That's where you're going now instead of Google. But it
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: amazes me how many times we've come back and we've
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: had somebody design a plan for somebody and then they
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: come to us and they're like, hey, can you build
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: this for me? We're like, yeah, for sure, let me
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: see what you got, you know, and then it's like okay,
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: and there's like a hundred questions like Hey, I don't
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: see this or this or this or this. Did you
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: talk to them about this? And it's just because that
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: person didn't know, like it's just ignorant of the industry.
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, that to me is the biggest thing.
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and now a word from the sponsors who make
• 26:00
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• 26:07
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• 26:40
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• 26:49
  Speaker 1: I want to ask you this might be a bit
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: controversial here, but I want to get your perspective on
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: when clients come to you that have originally started with
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: an equipment specialist, and I think a lot of people
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: know my perspective on this, but I'll just say it
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: to be really clear, that is not my preferred approach
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: to designing out an orthodonic office. I feel like, although
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: our equipment specialists may have some knowledge in this, you know,
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: having twenty years of experiencing plans, now it is all
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: squares and rectangles and hallways and boxes, and it doesn't
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: matter if it's again a three thousand square foot space
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: or a fifteen hundred foot space and some of the
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: things that I run into. And I'm curious because I
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: just want to talk about this and docs I want
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: you to hear me. Is although that seems like, oh,
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: I'm going to save so much money by getting these
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: air quote free plans by this industry may be specialists,
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: depending upon how long they've been selling equipment, and depending
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: upon how many orthoplans versus dental plans they've actually done.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: What I tend to see is many times a lot
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: of things get missed with those plans, and we actually
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: end up wasting our time because we're putting our energy
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: into a space and then you get it in front
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: of an engineer and they're like, ah, but the ducting
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: doesn't work, or there's actually a wall that they just
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: erased out the CAD plans because that didn't work so well,
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: there's a struggle, yeah, exactly. And I'm curious, and I
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: know I'm kind of putting you on the hot spot,
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: and you and I both have a lot of industry
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: friends that are in that. But I want to speak
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: really real about this because I do feel like there
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: is a lot of lost time. You know, we're talking
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: about it, the lost time on the bidding component of it.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: I feel like there's a lot of lost time a
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: lot of times on the front end, or if docs
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: are getting themselves really dialed into a plan and then
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: their whole everything is dashed when they're like, Eh, well
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: that actually doesn't work. So would you mind talking to
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: us a little bit about that and your thoughts on
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: I mean, to me, I'm like, just get in front
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: of your design build team, get in front of your architect,
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: like right from the beginning, do your test fit with
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: the people who are going to take it to the end,
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: and bring your equipment specialists in when we're ready to
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: actually talk about equipment and how their specific little one
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: sheet of the plan makes sense plays into the whole
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: grim scheme of it, right.
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, very tactfully, I would say, first, especially especially
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: with somebody they've known for a long time, they've worked
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: with a lot, you know, because there are some I know,
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: coming from Atlanta Dental, there were people with twenty and
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: thirty year relationships with the equipment specialists. So it's a
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: matter of taking it back to how much revenue are
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: you planning on making from here, what are the spaces
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: in the space that you really want to make revenue
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: with and where you're going to get the most of
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: and what's your budget, and then coming back and saying, okay, listen,
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: we can reform this as needed to fit your flow
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: that you really want and to make it look like
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: you want. We can be creative in using materials and
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: whatnot to get the look and the type of aesthetics
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: that you want. But if, especially if I see that
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: a client is not necessarily you know, bought into that
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: plan that the equipment manufactured did, then I will do
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: everything I can to try to turn them, you know,
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: more like the captain of the Titanic trying to turn.
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying. You know, it takes a second,
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: it takes building that relationship to do that. But I
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: think it's a matter of in the end, like I said,
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: it's they're going to be the ones walking in there
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: for five to ten years in that practice so or
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: twenty years. So I don't want them walking in thinking, Man,
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: I wish Sean had told me that I should have
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: done this, And I want them knowing that from the
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: get go we're guiding them the best way we can,
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: no matter where that plan came from. So I have
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: no problem changing the plan.
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, and again, I mean I know I sound
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: pretty taking a pretty big stance here, but I think
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: what I just want our listeners to hear is that
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: it is so much more. I mean, if you're going
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: to take the time to do a startup and you're
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: going to take the time to design out the space,
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: where we don't want to skimp is in design and
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: that flow and function fundamental piece of an office. And
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: so if we can build on that and stay within
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: budget and know that we don't have halways to nowhere,
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: and know that we didn't build out just to put
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: equipment into an office, this is your forever home or
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: is a ten year home as long as you're going
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: to hold that lease or you know whatever. And so
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: you know, I just really advocate for getting in front
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: of the right people that are going to help you
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: make those decisions because most of you have never done
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: a practice before, and you don't even know. Sometimes the
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: question is to ask or the things to be aware of.
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: And I think a good team around you, architects, design teams,
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: you know, Blue Frog, you know, all the different companies
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: that are out there that deal with this day in
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: and day out, are going to be the best advocates
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: for you in keeping your budget in mind and yet
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: keeping function of office in mind.
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: I would also say that, you know, you kind of
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: look at what the equipment specialists provided as kind of
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: like the test fit that we do up front, and
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: that's really all it is. It's a one snapshot of hey,
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: what could this plan look like? And then it's time
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: to really dig in together. So I always tell my
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: teammates here, like, don't get your ego wrapped around this
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: plan that you did that you thought you know for
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: hours on and you think everything's perfect, Like that plan
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: is going to crash against the rocks in the first meeting,
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: because there's going to be something that I want adjust
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: and it's going to affect over here, and it's going
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: to affect over here. The home plan is going to
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: get updated. But in the end, the collaboration between us
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: and the client and the engineers like it's going to
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: produce a set that's going to make it so much
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: better for them. So yeah, taking the ego out of
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: it is the very important thing for us to do.
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: So my hope would be that whatever equipment specials I'm
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: working with at the time also has that mindset, and
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: we're still going to get the doctor's going to need
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: equipment no matter what. So it's just going to be
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: maybe in a different location.
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: Right right, exactly exactly. So let's switch gears a little bit,
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: and I want to talk about just hidden costs, because
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: we do our best to figure out what a project
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: is going to cost. I mean, we kind of have
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: an idea of across the nation what building per square
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: foot is. But I want you to talk a little
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: bit about where you see hidden costs show up. I
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: know you kind of alluded to it a little bit earlier,
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: but just what doctors can do to make sure surprises
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: aren't happening, and what they should be thinking about or
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: looking for that could be that little whammy that gets
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: them right.
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: Well, one of the first things kind of comes back
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: to the actual tenet space as well. So HVAC is
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: a big issue sometimes. For example, I have we also
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: do a lot of that clinics, but I have a
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: clinic right now that has it's like a twenty thousand
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: square foot clinic and it's got eleven existing r to
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: use on the rooftop right, and we went out there
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: to take a look at it up front because we
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: will want to let them know, like, hey, we're going
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: to do a report for you and find out is
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: the water heater capacity enough, is the electrical capacity enough,
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: is the water flow into the space big enough? And
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: is the existing HVC equipment enough. When we get up
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: there and you can't even read the plates on the
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: units eleven units, so just imagine how much that is
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: to replace all of those. They were not planning on
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: doing that. So if you know up front and you
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: can even get somebody to go look at the space
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: before you sign the lease, yes, because their lease was that, hey,
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: if the unit goes it's on you. So being able
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: to have a good real estate agent that can help
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: you look through those leases and make sure you have
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: burbage in there so that if that has to be replaced,
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: then the landlord's paying for it and not you. I
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: mean that could be several hundred thousand dollars in that case, right,
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: So yes, yes, there are some things that you can't
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: just can't control. So we did have a clinic. We
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: went in I think we went It was an old
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: Eckers building or something, and they started trenching for plumbing.
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: And this is one of my favorite stores. I love it.
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: They started trenching for plumbing and in this one location
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: they cut the concrete and the concrete just falls into
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: this void. This is in the middle of an Eckers building, right,
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: It's like ten eleven thousand square of a building. So
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: they keep cutting and keep cutting and cut, keep cutting,
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: and they ended up pulling out like three truckloads of trash.
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: They had put a construction debris under the building. So
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: like the amount of stuff they pulled out of there.
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: And then like the doctor didn't know that was there,
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: We didn't know that was there. You just got to
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: run with it. So I would say you always want
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: to have some contingency built in. A lot of times
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: banks will put in contingency ten percent or so. We
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: when we do our budget estimates, we also do it
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: in contingency on top of what the bank has. Because
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: you never know you're going to run into termites, you're
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: going to run into rust, or any number of things.
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: Lots of things can happen in construction that you just
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: don't know. If you know when you watch HGTV, like
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: that part of HGV is absolutely real. You're going to
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: run into things and have to figure out, hey, can
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: I spend the money here? Can I add more money?
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: The hidden costs when it comes to plans or that
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: if somebody does plans and they're not putting all the
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: information in there, and that's what comes to the change orders.
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: Like I mentioned later, you're not planning on that, but
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: that can definitely happen a lot of times when you're
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: getting allowances up front, like a contractor says, I'll put
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: an allowance for this because they don't know yet. Those
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: are the type of things that you need to keep
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: track of because that can come back and write you later.
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: Two and oh, we we had twenty grand in there,
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: but it's really going to be fifty grade, so you know,
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: it's another thirty graining.
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: I was full. Yeah, Yeah, I think those are all
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: great points. And I can think of stories with my
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: clients over the years to every single one of your
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: points where it's just sometimes you just scratch your head
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: like what or I've always when I'm working at the client,
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: like one of the first things we are actually always
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: making sure is does our lease actually include an h
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: fact Like you would think that while I'm walking into
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: a building. Of course it's got air conditioning and heating,
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: but you and I both know never make that assumption
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: or little things to your point of I see this
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: a lot in medical buildings where a lot of our
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: plumbing is done under the floor, and if you happen
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: to have a tenant below you, the tenant below you
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: as a bank and they aren't going to let you
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: come through the ceiling or a secure site for whatever reason,
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: or you know, I mean, there's just things that we
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: kind of take for granted. And some of this comes
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: in the construction side to your point, but also on
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: that front end of I think your point is very valid.
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: If you can have somebody come out and walk that
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: space with you before you're signing that lease, so you're
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: as much as possible eyes wide open, because a lot
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: of times we are saying, hey, we want some adjustments,
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: we want to up that TI because that HVAC unit
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: is twenty years old, and if you're going to have
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: it in there that I'm responsible for it, well, let's
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: start with a new one type of a thing, or
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: an allowance for me to build that in. I just
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: had a client that was going into a new space
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: and right next door was a spin studio, and that
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: sounds great until you're listening to the base of music
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: all day long and now you're having to do sound mitigation.
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: So I think it's those things that if we've got
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: people that are on our side advocating for us, helping
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: us walk through and think about, and then when we're
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: getting into our least negotiation saying hey, I want the landlord,
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: I want to at least ask the landlord to help
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: pay for some sound mitigation going in, or I want
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: to have an idea of what it costs so that
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: when I get into my cost per score foot, we
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: haven't just blown past what we thought our costs were
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: going to be.
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: I think there's also permitting is something that I know
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: a lot of architects and designers will try to look
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: forward and contact the permitting agency and find out what's
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: going to be required in this jurisdiction. You know, especially
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: a lot of places might not require a sprinkler system,
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: but there are some cities we've run into that they're like,
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: I don't care if it's not required by the fire code.
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: We will require you to have sprint systems. Now in
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: a startup clinic, add forty to fifty thousand dollars to
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: your budget for a sprinkler system. Sometimes, you know, air
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: quality for certain clinics might need a hire cost mechanically.
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: But also if you're moving from a tenant space to
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: a site, the amount of things on a site that
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: can be different that you're not thinking about that you
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: really need to get a civil engineer involved first to
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: take a look at it to determine is that zoning
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: okay for me to put an orthodonic office here, or
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: I mean zoning has messed up many a plan because
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: you know what I mean. And then you go and
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: you've got to go do all these meetings over a
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: corpse of months, spend money in design just to maybe
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: be able to do it because the rezoning process or
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: the conditional use process, especially use process, there's all these
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: different names for it, but it's essentially they're controlling what's
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: in the zoning. So you may or may not be
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: able to do that. You may have to go through.
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: We did one recently that had to do literally amend
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: the town's code. We had to go in there and
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: not just like rezone this site, but there's a whole
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: zoning code they had that we had to go in
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: and amend the code in order to allow dentistry of
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: any sort to happen in that code. Wow, so you're
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: talking about hiring a lawyer. You need a land used
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: attorney for this, getting civil engineer, getting architects involved, and
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: doing a lot of the design up front for what
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: you would need to do on that site and degrading
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: and everything and figure out what that needs to be
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: in order to present to a city council and to
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: maybe neighborhood councils and go visit with people who live
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: around there to have the possibility to be approved. So
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: it's a lot of money upfront to do something like that.
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: Doing a roundup building is just a lot more costs anyways,
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I want to make sure like we do
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: something called a feasibility study, and that's kind of like
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: doing that due diligence. So if you have a site
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: that you really want, and you could do this with anybody,
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: but you have a site that you really want, you
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: really need to build into that contract due diligence period
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: of at least nine to one hundred twenty days if
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: you can. So if they really are pushing you, they
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: might ask you to do in thirty to sixty days.
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: But that gives a person who's helping you in design
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: have a chance to really fully investigate the site with
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: a civil engineer, see what kind of zoning issues and
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: setbacks and buffers, and if there's architectural regulations that might
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: make the outside of the building costs more because it
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: has to be all great or stone or glass. There's
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: a lot of things that go into that that they
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: can then put together report and tell you, Okay, listen,
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: here's what we think your building is going to be
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: look like. This is what your site's going to look like.
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: This is how much is that's going to cost, and
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: these are the regulations that are affecting this site. So
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: that's the way we do it. And there's been a
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: few times that it's been like, listen, you need to
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: steer clear of the site.
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: We even had one client who bought like a five
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: acre plot of land, was looking at buying it, and
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: we said, Okay, for your budget, you need to plan
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: on just initially developing this corner over here. Put your
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: practice on it, put your parking, don't touch the rest
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: because this particular county is extremely strict and all the
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: regulations and everything and what they need. And if we
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: only touch this part and we kind of separate out
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: the property, then all you have to touch is the
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: part that you're saying is going to be your dental property.
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: But that wasn't the master plan, and in the end,
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: in order to fit their budget, that's what we did
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: because we are budget driven. But at the end they
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: wanted to end up doing something else and create kind
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: of a plaza. And as soon as we started doing
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: that and didn't separate out the property, the county said, no,
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: you have to do the entire property. You have to
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: grade everything, provide the tension for all the stormwater, all
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: this horse fencing across the back and across the front
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: and all this landscaping they made us to it added
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: probably six or seven hundred thousand dollars to the project,
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: just in sight work because they wanted us to touch
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: all this pursure. So it like cut the deal. But
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: that's where it kind of comes back to trusting. You
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: got to be willing to trust and listen to the
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: people that you're hiring and that you are putting around
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: you because they are the ones who do this every
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: single day.
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: They don't work on teeth, They design and they build. Yeah,
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: so they're trying to do that to allow you to
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: work on teeth not Yeah, yeah, absolutely, you know. Yeah,
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: we're dripping to the quarterback and help do all this
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: other stuff so that you can remain doing what you're
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: doing and continue building revenue and just let us kind
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: of handle this. But it is a stressful time of
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: life to do a building. Yeah. Now, the design design
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: parts fun.
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's always absolutely is the fun part. And I
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: think the take home messages you know, you work with
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: the right team, surround yourself with the right people, then
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: you're going in eyes wide open right from the beginning
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: or to the best of your ability and it just
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: causes and helps you have a much smoother process the
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: whole way through because nobody likes the waams that come
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: at you. Oh I was a expecting that. Oh nobody
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: told me about that. Oh, I didn't even know I
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: should be thinking about that. And I think that can
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: happen a lot of times when we've got a lot
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: of different people working on the project, but nobody is
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: really heading up the project and bringing it all the
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: way through. So I know you and I could just
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: I mean, I am as excited about this as you are,
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: and I can talk and talk and talk about this,
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: and I know you can too, Sean. But of course
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: we're going to have to start to wrap this up.
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: So one final question. But if you were to say, hey,
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: doc's out there, like this is where I think you
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: need to be investing when you're looking at doing a startup,
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: or maybe where I think you need to be investing
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: for kind of that long term success. What's your take
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: home message there?
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: I'm going to be ask not a lot of people
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: are going to like this answer, but it's what's coming.
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: And I think that AI in the realm of the
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: dental arena is going to be huge in coming years.
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: I know here specifically, we are starting a full on
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: training system for all of our folks here to help
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: to use it. But there are hundreds of billions of
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: dollars being spent on it right now. And I don't
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: care if you're young or old. It is what's going
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: to happen in the next few years. And I'm not
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: you know, Elon Musk, I don't know exactly how it's
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: going to affect the dental and orthodonic world is you
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: know specifically, But just a year ago I was on
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: a podcast and I mentioned that and they were like, oh, yeah, yeah,
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: but I'm telling you it has progressed exponentially over the
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: last year. So figuring that out and trying to be
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: a little bit more leading edge on that, how that's
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: going to help with looking at X rays, you know,
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: developing patient care and being able to help your patients
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: in a way that maybe they don't know. It's AI
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: that creates it, but to automate some tasks that your
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: people do and allow them to do more. If you
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: can even double the amount of efficiency that your people
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: can do, your front, front desk, tax everything, if they
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: can do that and allow you to be able to
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: do more marketing, you know, allow them to get out
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: there more and allow them to serve your patients more
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: through other methods. What does that worth? It's like a whole.
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: So you have five people and they're all using it
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: and doubling that means you essentially have five more employees
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: by utilizing these agents. Again, I don't, I'm not. I
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: love AI. Yeah, I've been into it very deep herely
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: if you look at my LinkedIn page. But just seeing
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: what it's doing in regular businesses and thinking about what
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: that can impact in doctors' offices is huge. And yeah,
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: I don't know how many people are actually looking at
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: it in that sense right now, but it's come.
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. Well, Sean, if somebody
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: wants to learn more about blue Frog, they want to
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: get some guidance on a project, they're like, I think
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: I'm really connecting here. What's going to be the best
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: way that they can get in touch with you or
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: the team?
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: Sure? Yeah, you can go to our website befrog dot net.
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: You can email me at s Rainey atbfrog dot net
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: or Andrew is a god that deals with a lot
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: of our dental practices here as well. That's Amadina atvfrog
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: dot net and we can get that information out to
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: you to share as well. But yeah, perfect, you can
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: always call me as well. I am on LinkedIn. But
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: we would love to help you and figure out ways
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: to make projects work for you in your budget.
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and now a word from the sponsors who make
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: this podcast possible. Hey, docs, let's talk about smile Sweet
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: because it's not just another scheduling system. It's a game
• 48:39
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• 48:42
  Speaker 1: a proud smile Suite partner, I've witnessed the incredible impact
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: it has on practices of all sizes. Smile Sweet means
• 48:50
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• 48:56
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• 49:01
  Speaker 1: consultation follow up. It's like having a secret weapon for
• 49:05
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• 49:10
  Speaker 1: dot com and don't forget to mention Haydocks to unlock
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: some extra goodies. Elevate your practice with smile Sweet, because
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: every smile deserves a suite of excellence. All right, Well,
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: the way I love to finish with Haydocks is I
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: love to do a little speed round. So are you
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: ready for a couple.
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: Of questions I made?
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: All right, all right, here we go, Here we go.
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: What is one of the most unexpected lessons you've learned
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: in your career?
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: A lot of times it comes down to who you know.
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: That's a good one.
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: Just the way God's worked in my life. He has
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: moved me from one place to another to another strictly
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: by people that knew who I was, what I did,
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: and what they needed at the time. And yeah, it's
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: what I would tell my kids too. We cultivate relationships
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: and be ready to help other people. But yeah, that's
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: who you know matters far more than kids realize.
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, I would agree with that. If you
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: could give your younger self one piece of career advice,
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: what would that be learn from others mistakes.
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: One thing my dad always told me was don't make
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: all those mistakes yourself. And I would go back and
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: reiterate that, because you know, kids don't always listen to
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: their parents and the best, but really standing on the
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: shoulders of other people have gone before you and seeking
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: out people who are in the position I want to
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: be in and hanging around them and learning with them.
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: So I know, at least for doctors, you know, a
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: lot of times find a mentor that's doing what you
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: want to be doing in the next five to ten years,
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: find out how they're doing that, and they have to
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: help you.
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's great, that's great. All right, Well, this has
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: just been an absolute pleasure. Like I said, I know
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: you and I could just talk and talk and I'll
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: definitely have you on again so we can have some
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: more good conversation. So thank you so much for being
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: a part of Haydocks today.
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: Thank you, Jill, It's been a pleasure. Thank you so much.
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: Are you ready to start a practice of your own,
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: need a new fresh set of eyes or some advice
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: on your existing practice. If so, reach out to me
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: Jill Allen at www dot practice results dot com. If
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: you like what we're doing here on Haydocks and want
• 51:23
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