Latest / GAIN Momentum / Outrigger's Commercial Strategy and Using Data for Real Growth | with Jenna Villalobos
Transcript
- GAIN Momentum episode #116: Outrigger's Commercial Strategy and Using Data for Real Growth | with Jenna Villalobos === Adam Mogelonsky: Welcome to an exciting episode of the GAIN Momentum Podcast. I'm joined today by Jenna Villalobos. She is the chief revenue officer of Outrigger Resorts and Hotels. Jenna, how are you? Jenna Villalobos: Hello, how are you doing this morning, Adam? Adam Mogelonsky: Aloha. Yeah, you're coming in from Hawaii where Outrigger was started and where it still has a very large presence. Jenna Villalobos: Absolutely. Our corporate office is here in Waikiki, and we have hotels and resorts all through the Hawaiian Islands as well as Fiji, Mauritius, Thailand, and the Maldives, as well as some vacation condos. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. And you know, Outrigger itself, it sort of grew up as Waikiki itself became a destination as, I guess, one of the original surf meccas around the world. Jenna Villalobos: Yeah, absolutely. This is the home of iconic surfing, and Outrigger is right there in the thick of it here in Waikiki, and we are very committed to Hawaiian culture, our host culture, no matter what islands we are on across the world, and you really feel your sense of place when you're with us. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. And your role as chief revenue officer, tell us about a day in the life. Jenna Villalobos: Sure. So, you know, it's really interesting how people will interpret revenue management, if not, what chief revenue officer does. But really what I do is I connect people and systems and ideas all day. So what I'm really focused on is determining the most profitable demand, because my team has all the execution of whether it's distribution, website technology, contact center, CRM, revenue strategy. We really connect to the customer, and we connect to the demand. And I work specifically with leadership and change management all day. We can pick the right technology, we can have the right recommendation, but we're really bringing the teams along to the strategy and to the customer. So that is one of my core tenets of my role is to get that commercial operating rhythm going for Outrigger. Adam Mogelonsky: And you're dealing with a ton of data to make that happen. Jenna Villalobos: Yes. Yeah. Yes. We are dealing with internal data, external data, you know, weather data. We're dealing with currency. We're dealing with all sorts of things that could impact demand or impact customer sentiment across the globe, really. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. And across the globe, you've mentioned where the portfolio is, and even though they are technically all, let's say, beach destinations, even though that's a little bit trite, each place is different. Each country's different. Each beach is different from the next. How do you... What's your overall philosophy for managing such a vast portfolio? Jenna Villalobos: Yeah, so what we try to do is the core of revenue strategy, and I don't like calling it revenue management, that's not what we do. It's revenue strategy, commercial strategy. So the core is there. And we have to execute localized strategy based on demand, source markets, where our guests are coming from. You know, we've been navigating a Middle East geopolitical issue for our Maldives property for the last six months. So it is really dynamic, the different types of data and the different types of input that you have coming in. But the strategy, I would say the strategy or the core remains the same. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. And I love that you mentioned commercial strategy because that is a big movement, a mega trend we've seen in, let's just say, the corporate governance of hotels over the past decade. The movement from revenue as this isolated silo to encompassing and being related and data-driven alongside marketing, sales, communications, and even, you know, the guest service teams on site. Jenna Villalobos: Absolutely. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. Jenna Villalobos: Yeah, so I think commercial strategy has always been there, we just call it something different now. And, you know, I think multiple people owned it in the past. Sometimes you would see in independent assets, you'd have the GM owning that. Sometimes you would have the director of sales and marketing. But in this era of big data, as we called it 10 years ago, you really need somebody who's stringing along facts with strategy. Again, to your point, customer sentiment, all of that gets woven in, and you need a hub. You need a hub with all the spokes coming out to really make commercial strategy really sing in, like I said, that commercial rhythm, because that's really what it is. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah, and I like that you're comparing 10 years ago when big data was all the rage to now it's all AI, and we'll get to AI, it's important. But one term that was just coming to the forefront 10 years ago was this idea of total revenue, where you had, you know, rooms, spa, F&B, golf, excursions, and they didn't really talk to one another. They had disjointed incentives and reporting mechanisms, and now commercial strategy brings that all together around this single KPI total revenue or TRevPAR. Can you talk about what you've seen in the development and how you use total revenue to guide your commercial strategy? Jenna Villalobos: Yeah, I mean, total revenue has been a tenet of what I've done in my career for 15 years or more at least, because in my previous life, I worked with larger resorts. I had spa, golf, dining. I worked at a casino. So I would say the casinos really have this dialed in with theoretical value of guests, and casinos just have it at a different level because they have a different business need. But back to resorts, you know, when we're... You know, back when I worked at mega resorts, you're looking at what does that group guest bring? What is the profitability of a group guest versus a leisure guest? In the leisure segment, what is consortia bringing versus a loyalty guest? So we have had the data. We've been working with companies that bring us in that cohesive data and, you know, looking at the total spend. So I think it's been in the industry for quite some time. Now we're getting smarter with it, with bringing in revenue management systems who can read and say, "Okay, well, you need this type of guest in this timeframe of a stay date." So I think it's getting more sophisticated, but those hotels who are successful have been doing it for quite some time. I used to support a wellness resort, and rooms is much like a casino. Rooms is secondary to all the activities and spa. You know, it's in a complex resort. It should've been there for some time, and now it's just more sophistication. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah, and what I gather from what you're saying is that oftentimes the commercial direction can imply that you want to have a lower nightly rate to get people through the front door, and then the ancillaries will complete the pie by the time of checkout. Jenna Villalobos: 100%, Adam. And that's one thing: to get to that decision, you have to know the profitability of each of your outlets and what is the trend of each of your segmentation of your customers. So there's a lot of data, I would say foundational work that needs to be done before you even get to recommendation. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. And you also mentioned the whole idea of theoretical guest value, getting into customer lifetime value, whichever calculation metric you're using. So oftentimes you want to incentivize not just the ancillary during stay one, but also stay two, stay three, stay four, et cetera, based on whatever public and internal data you have. Jenna Villalobos: Absolutely. I fell in love with, I would say I'm not gonna call it CRM, customer relationship management, because that's what it is, or customer relationship strategy back when I worked for a casino, and really understanding that tier level of a guest and how you can really channel manage your CRM. So you know, that's one of the reasons why I support the CRM efforts because it's a blend of art and science. You have the science of how the profiles come together and the data with that. Then you have the art of the storytelling, which is the engagement level. So, and keeping that long-term relationship with that consumer for their RFM or their recency, frequency, and monetary value score, however you... Like you said, however you like to look at it. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah, but I mean, Outrigger is an exception to the rule here because your guests keep coming back and you have—yeah—exceptional story-driven products to work with. So, therein, stroke your ego too much here, because it is great hotels, but a lot of times that can bias what to expect from public data, which may be equated to other resorts or urban markets that don't have that inherited. Jenna Villalobos: Yes. There's... You know, we've been very lucky that we've had an ownership that has invested in our data and invested in our technology and our talent. So yeah, to me, it's normal everyday expectation of what we produce. Adam Mogelonsky: And now, you've also mentioned your past experience with wellness, but the latest wellness offerings at Outrigger Resorts, you're leaning into this whole idea of personalized wellness itineraries, which are a different form of packaging. And I'm wondering if you could speak to just how wellness is changing the overall contributions for total revenue as well as how you're pricing various outlets. Jenna Villalobos: Yeah. Well, it's interesting, because our wellness arena is, I would say, not as robust as some spa wellness resorts that I've worked with in the past. And when you come to Hawaii or any of our other destinations, there's a healing component to that travel that we're leaning in with cultural experiences. So, at the moment, we're not pricing for a full list of activities. They're more ad hoc for our guests. They're more surprise and delight. But we are definitely weaving in the cultural sustainability, the wellness components to our storytelling and our brand pillars when we go to market and we tell the reason why Outrigger. Adam Mogelonsky: Wow. And behind the scenes, you've mentioned revenue management systems, and we've talked about all the data sources. Give us a sense of what's actually required to bring all that data together in an accurate and clean manner. Jenna Villalobos: Yes. You know, it's very well known in the hospitality space. We have data in all the different places and, you know, at the moment, we need the humans to bring it together. So our tech stack is, I would say, probably best in breed. We have Duetto, which we've been a partner with for quite some time. Optimizely, which is our CMS. It's not a hospitality CMS, it's more of a retailing CMS, so you have other large companies using that CMS for experimentation, personalization. It connects to a data platform, a customer data platform, and our CRM. So there's— that engine is amazing. I love it. And the nature of our islands is we need a lot of third-party support to buy air. So, it's basically a leisure three-legged stool that has our direct, our third parties. Like we talked about earlier, we're also using Lighthouse for pricing, market conditions, Demand360. We've looked at other things, Calibri. I can name-drop all the things that we use. But I think what is important is you have to procure what makes sense for you on a financial side. But you need a conductor. You need somebody who is going to advise and create a process to have the teams use the data and bring it in correctly. Because your teams can get lost on one system or like one system better, but it may not give you that whole 360 view you're looking for. So it really comes down again to the human component of producing data and being curious and looking at how these things should come together. Adam Mogelonsky: You know, I love that you mentioned being curious, 'cause being curious allows you to ask better and deeper questions, and that's really where all this technology is going. We stitch it all together, we clean it, we create these massive datasets of proprietary information. And then from there it's how can we get more personalized in our packaging? How can we surprise and delight our guests once they arrive based on what we know? All those fun things that in one way or another always comes back to the commercial strategy. Jenna Villalobos: Yeah. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. Jenna Villalobos: Absolutely. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. So therein, one of the key things these days that's helping that, whether we're tired of it or not, is artificial intelligence, AI. So without giving away the store, how are you using AI today? Jenna Villalobos: Well, in some of our—we choose product that has a roadway for it to be embedded in, so we're not developing it ourselves. So we partner with companies who have a nice long runway with product development, with either machine learning or AI or whatever version of AI you wanna call it. So that is for insights and opportunities. Then we have our demand generation, which is an emerging discipline. And I think what's really interesting is how quickly the LLMs are changing their referencing, how quickly people are trying to... It's like the gold rush back, you know, 20, 25 years ago, where people were using this new thing called the internet. So we're really trying to test and learn. I mean, I must say test and learn, test and trial, 100 times a week, because we're trying to spend the appropriate amount of time and resources on it by getting learning, but not going 100% in. 'Cause if you look at the amount of folks who are using it today, they're still using it. A lot of people are using traditional methods, but there is a very steep ramp of people using generative AI for trip planning, for trip planning, for destination resourcing. So yeah, we're testing and trialing in the back of the house and I would say guest-facing demand generation. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. So on that note about people using it for trip planning, I guess the term, the catch-all term is AI search around there. And therein it's all about, I guess, recommendation engineering or citation percentage share of answer. There's a bunch of terms being thrown around and nothing has been definitively defined yet. So how are you looking at Outrigger from the perspective of answering the question: how can I make my properties better in AI search to thereby increasing that top of funnel awareness? Jenna Villalobos: From the research that we've done, it's not one smoking gun. It's many things working correctly together. So one of the first things is ensuring that SEO, SEO basic content management is correct and it's updated and it's strong with your schema, all those, I would say, back-of-the-website items. The other thing that we've been focused on is working with reputable or very high authoritative sites, whether that's TripAdvisor, Reddit to my dismay, it is what it is, as well as other travel blogs, travel researchers. So we've been using Curiosity, which is a nice partner of ours, to help us with advertorials and get us into the space, and our traditional PR. The other thing that we're focused on is ensuring that the content, how people talk, that we're writing in, and that was a fundamental change that we have been focused on for the last three months, is we would write in a certain tone, but that's not the tone the consumer is writing in. They wanna hear... We don't usually talk about ourselves in the greatest, the best, the this. So we've been focusing on how do we make that in our brand voice and in the vernacular of the consumer, how they like to search. So, all the things I think is the answer is all the things and things we don't even know about yet, we'll test and trial. Adam Mogelonsky: Well, yeah, and I mean, all the things implies a lot of different tasks that impact multiple departments. So how do you organize a team to efficiently make all these things a process? Because reviews need curating and monitoring, websites need updating, PR teams need to know what the bulletins are and use the right voice. How do you make that a process that is sustainable? Jenna Villalobos: We've had a committee for over a year that has our CIO, it has myself, it has my APAC commercial and performance leader, it has our brand team, and it has the guys that make the website work, as well as an SEO expert. So we've been running this committee for over a year, and we have a roadmap that we have agreed upon. So we're on 2.0 of that roadmap at the moment. And throughout our just normal operating reviews, customer sentiment is woven into everything that we do, from revenue meetings to ownership reviews, day-to-day measurement of our reviews. So the reviews is a whole work stream of itself that it's internally, it's just perpetually getting better. And then, you know, we have a research, basically that committee is our research team. It's run by commercial strategy. And then we're measuring the effectiveness of each of these items, and then just moving over time, to trial and learn or update our roadmap. So it's really interesting, people are like, "Who owns this?" I think I was asked that on a different interview, and I was like, "Oh, that's a good question." Because I feel like we have a team sport with it. So I would say commercial owns it, and we have our subject matter experts who are along for the journey. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah, it's an interesting approach, you know, to have a committee and then the subject matter experts, the people who can be, I guess, the project owner or the lead on specific items because it really is all-encompassing to what these AIs are looking at. Jenna Villalobos: Exactly. It is. We've learned a lot. We have, you know, we have contact center which is helping us out on the social side with Reddit. We have, you know, hub and... Like it's like again, a hub and a spoke. We have all these different projects that we're working on, but it's definitely a team effort. I think if someone tried to go it alone and say, "Hey, there's one person responsible for it," they would just end up chasing people all day long. So you need to have the buy-in, you need to have the momentum. Well, that's just my style anyways, but I think that works the best. Adam Mogelonsky: So, contact center and Reddit, could you unpack what that is? Jenna Villalobos: You know, Reddit, it's the voice of the people. You know, you can't go wrong with that. Yes, I've been known to look at a Reddit here and there. But there's so much misinformation that's in the Reddit, and as a business, to correct all that misinformation or get in there on the chat and the relationship with those folks, I mean, where... Is the juice worth the squeeze on a lot of those conversations? Like, you know, we would have to stand up labor to answer all these chats and whatnot. We have introduced ourselves into a Reddit with a Reddit channel or whatever it's called. But we're trying to manage it like social monitoring. So we are attempting to move forward with it. But I think the misinformation is the part that kills me a bit. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. You know, it is sort of the, I guess I would say, a black box for a lot of businesses to figure out how to appear on Reddit now that it's becoming such a prominent factor in AI search. Jenna Villalobos: And I've seen conflicting information where generative AI is putting Reddit in a lower category now for authoritative comments, but who knows? It could be a test and they go back to it. So we should have always had a voice on Reddit, and now we do. And we will monitor and see how it goes. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. And you mentioned the customer reviews and how that's a whole process on its own. That is another big part of AI search. And I'm wondering if you could answer the question for anyone who's listening about how you go about getting more quality reviews, 'cause that's always the issue there, is we want volume and recency for Google, TripAdvisor, everything. Jenna Villalobos: The first thing is be hospitable and have it in your culture, number one. Number two is, you know, there's certain rules with TripAdvisor, there's certain rules where you have to play fair. So we make sure that we play fair. But it's also just asking for the review and asking for the business. So number one, be a hospitality company and have it in your culture to deliver great service. And then number two, play by the rules. And then number three, ask for the reviews in the appropriate way for each of the channels of reviews that are out there. Google is becoming a bigger and bigger review area, so we're really focused on how that's integrated into Maps, and ensuring that our Google reviews are strong as well. 'Cause hospitality folks just usually think TripAdvisor. But there's also, in the OTA space, the algorithm is quite favorable to guest sentiment. So you'll lose there, and you'll lose your position on the page if your customer experience score is not strong. So I feel for operators, there's a lot of different review sources. And again, knowing your customer, where did they book, and ensuring that you're appropriately asking for the correct reviews. Adam Mogelonsky: Well, I like that you mentioned the OTAs because part of any commercial strategy is to appear on the OTAs and then try at various parts of the customer journey to get them to book direct, either for the first time, the second time, and everything like that. So from your perspective, what actually works to get more net direct revenue? Jenna Villalobos: Well, that's also a very multi-channel approach, right? So you have upper funnel, mid-funnel, conversion funnel for your ad, paid advertising. But specifically to move folks from third parties into your direct, it's starting with having that relationship when you're checking in on property, like, "Adam, aloha, welcome." And, you know, advising that you can have a deeper, better, more perk-filled relationship with us directly. So inviting them to come back and book direct. Also, getting that data collection at the time of check-in, or if you're using systems like Canary, Canary, Samza Tech, all the things to get pre-arrival data from third parties, to start that relationship early. And independents like me need to have that megaphone of travel partners pushing us out there in the space. So it's working hand-in-hand with the partners on helping them with marketing to get your name out there. And then when you're on property and right before property, help convert and get them into the database so you can start to have that relationship with them. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. And, you know, I like that you mentioned travel partners because that's more encompassing than the OTAs. It also means tour operators, travel agents, everything there. So how do you assess those other non-OTA third parties that may give you a guest that is much more likely to return, you know, as part of the channel optimization branch of things? Jenna Villalobos: Yeah. It's really interesting that the reason why do people book there? They book there because it's easy for their trip. You can book a hotel, a car, an air all in one go. So it's a much more cost-prohibitive place for us to be to connect to airline APIs and all those things. We have to white label it with other things. So you have to think, why do people book there? They book there, like with Costco, why do they book there? They book there 'cause they get 4% back on their credit card. They have... They're in the Costco buying environment, and it's just convenience. So we look at what is the reach of a partner, what is the cost of the partner, is this the customer we're trying to target? And then come up with a mutually beneficial plan to work with each travel partner. And then, you know what's interesting at Hawaii is that travel agents, they don't book direct. They book through travel partners, and then they come to us again because there's a bundling convenience. So there's a lot of interesting things that happen in an island fly-to market. One of the teammates that I have who just joined us called Hawaii and all the Pacific, Asia-Pacific region, the Super Bowl of distribution. So because it's not as easy or as linear as mainland distribution, where people can just drive to you, it's a very complex, dynamic, technical space. I love it. I've learned so much in this Super Bowl of distribution we have here in Hawaii and across Asia-Pacific. But it's really, really interesting how it's a blended traditional and Gen AI and all the things together, so... Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. And, of course, you'll have people who are, let's say, looking at Hawaii and then they want to come back to you for Fiji, Thailand, and the distribution hits them across multiple channels, including retargeting of ads, and then down to the CRM. It's then stitching that all together to see the propensity to rebook and everything, that's it gets very technical. Jenna Villalobos: It does. It does. And that's why I'm super proud of my team. If you think about what my team owns from the paid side all the way to the conversion distribution, that's my team. So whether we're finding the right customer, whether it's in distribution channels, paid media channels, we're converting them, we're having that relationship with them long term. And then we're pricing them because the consumer doesn't know the difference between a pricing team and an email content team and a web team. Consumer does not care. So that's what's really unique about my position, my team here, is that we're all cohesively working a plan. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah, I guess you have properties from Hawaii all the way to Mauritius, right? So how does that work going across the date line in terms of how you schedule your meetings? Jenna Villalobos: You know, all that matters is the time of day that you're working. We have folks that are, you know, we have a Japan team, Australia team, you know, that it's already Wednesday. They're waking up for Wednesday. It's Tuesday here. And, you know, I know, hey, it's four hours behind, it's this many behind. I gotta start meetings with Thailand at 3:00 Hawaii time. So, you know, you just get used to it. On Sundays you'll get a little bit more email volume if you're in the States, and then Friday you don't hear from anybody in Asia Pacific. So you just blend and get used to it. And then if you... I do many different partner calls with London, so if I'm in Hawaii at the time, you know, it's 7:00 in the morning or 7:00, 8:00 at night. It's not uncommon for anybody who works across the globe. You just get used to it. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah, you get used to it and then try to find some sleep whenever you can. Jenna Villalobos: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Adam Mogelonsky: So let's look ahead to the future. We had big data, now we have AI. You have a great tech stack to help you out. You have a great business team, commercial strategy or whatever it's called in 10 years' time. You have this great committee to drive all these processes. Where are we going, and what gets you excited about the future of commercial strategy? Jenna Villalobos: One thing that hasn't really changed is how you have to define a roadmap. You need to get everybody on board, and then you need to work through change management. So I don't think that that gets replaced with a machine at all. Maybe it helps us get there faster with roadmap or opportunities and insights, but the leadership component of commercial strategy, demand generation, I don't think will go away. And I think that's, I've not really seen too much change with, if you take somebody who's a revenue manager today and, you know, some of them will make it to commercial strategy. Some directors of sales and marketing will make it to commercial strategy, but not everybody will. What I've just learned, it's a human leadership change management position, and that's, you gotta like the people. You gotta like the people and know what gets the people ticking, and that's where I think it's gonna go. I think we're gonna have our disciplines, our subject matter experts in each of those areas, but true bringing together is that leadership component. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. You know, I've always seen it as saying, well, the AI, whatever, is gonna increase automation and it's gonna allow you to ask deeper questions. But also it's gonna allow you to be more of who you are, to find your niche as a brand and then be able to reach at scale the customers who are best suited for your brand. Yeah. Jenna Villalobos: Yeah, I agree with you. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. And therein commercial strategy in a lot of ways is also brand strategy and also where you want to go with everything. The on-site programming, having a decision in CapEx, everything that determines the future and evolution of a brand that's already great, like Outrigger. So do you see your role in that sense, giving, putting data behind where to actually evolve and how to be resilient against all these new brands that are coming in around the Pacific Rim? Jenna Villalobos: Yeah, that's a really good question. I like this question because my partners in the business are the ones who tell the brand story, the ones who are really creating the brand feel, the look, the personality. Those are my partners. And so I do think that we're getting to the point where our data can influence that. You know, some of the insights that we're getting from our gen AI and the way that people are searching, what are they caring about, can help influence how we tell our story. I wouldn't say change our brand, but influence just how we tell our story. So because I would be very cautious of having AI tell us how to change our brand or change our essence of who we are. So I think we can do a better job with it telling our story, for sure. I think that in the future, consumer behavior changes so much. You know, now we're seeing people who are not drinking alcohol as much, people who are really using travel as a right. And I think that that will continue to play on, where this whole economy of AI is changing things, where you're not making spreadsheets anymore and thinking about things, and that makes you evolve into more of a human that wants to travel, explore, have these experiences, and I think that's where hospitality and vacation destinations are kind of the medicine for that day-to-day pressure. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah, that's really well said in terms of how AI can be a liberating force for the mind. And the mind searches for meaning and finding meaning through travel. Yeah. And Jenna Villalobos: We didn't think we were gonna get so existential this morning, right, Adam? Adam Mogelonsky: No, no. I mean, travel is existential. I mean, think about it, right? Think about 50 years ago how few people actually left their country, their area. And then 200 years ago, before industrialization, you'd be lucky to travel more than 20 miles, 35 kilometers from your house. So we've come a long way. I mean, there could be an Outrigger Hotel in space before you know. Jenna Villalobos: Well, yeah. I hope, you know, if we make a best beach up there, then for sure. Adam Mogelonsky: So what other exciting trends do you think can fit with commercial strategy for a brand like Outrigger? Jenna Villalobos: One of the main things I think that we're working on, we're focused on, is sustainability. Because we need to protect our planet, we need to protect our beaches, we need to protect our oceans. So I think working that into sustainability, I also think it will continue to be an emerging trend for our travelers, want to know that, yes, they got on an airplane, yes, they have that carbon footprint, but once they get to a destination, we're protecting the culture, we're protecting the place, and we're really focused on not leaving a great footprint. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah, and particularly for beach resorts, we are seeing beach erosion become a very big line item. And I think now if you want to purchase sand, you have to wait two years or so to purchase it in advance because we're the world is running out of sand to replenish beaches. It's huge. And my follow-up question therein is, are you starting to see some data, whether it's outside the industry or something in a Google press release about their green hotels program, any form of data that shows that sustainability is not just something that's ephemeral or something that's good to do, but it actually has a quantifiable impact on the bottom line? Jenna Villalobos: I do know, yes, there is data out there that says that, so part of sustainability is making sure that, you know, are you using solar? Are you having electric processes that help you save energy? Like, that's all part of it. And you know, you can see it in Vegas. You can see it across big resorts. You know, we have buy local. We have all these sustainability things that do help to the bottom line. So I think there's a ton of research out there that prove that whether you buy local, you are saving a lot utility costs with investing in the right infrastructure. You're doing a beach cleanup with guests. All of those things do point to having effects on the bottom line. Adam Mogelonsky: And one other element of sustainability, you mentioned sustainability of culture. I call that stewardship. Have you heard that word? Jenna Villalobos: Absolutely. Yeah. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah, so, from the perspective of commercial strategy, what's your input into cultural stewardship and then using that as something to guide the guests you find, the ICPs, the target personas, and also impacting awareness and revenues? Jenna Villalobos: Yeah. So how we partner with those teams is we tell the story. We use that as a guest engagement tool. We will also get to the point where I think we will have insights into programming that will help those teams create programming. Again, not to take us off our brand thesis, but to help just enrich. So we will get there with that. We're not there yet, but we will get there where we will have guest input on programming. So yeah, I think that's important and it'll come more hand in hand. But we definitely use it as an engagement tool and the reason for Outrigger. So when you stay with Outrigger, you really do feel a sense of where you are, your local sense of place, versus other hotels that are too scaled to be able to do that and integrate it into their storytelling or their demand generation. Adam Mogelonsky: So, speaking about scale and to wrap up here, what's next for Outrigger? Jenna Villalobos: Yeah, we are just on the tail end of a transformative renovation at Outrigger Waikiki Beach. It will be brand new property launching at the beginning of the year, so we're very excited about that. We have ongoing... We've almost finished up all our renovations across the island. We have a beautiful resort, Outrigger Phi Phi Island, that is basically built from the ground up, and that is a world-class beach destination. This resort is amazing. The GM was a chef in the Maldives, so beautiful food and beverage, beautiful location, excited about that. And then, you never know. We will pop up at a world's best beach across the world. Who knows? Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. Who knows? Anything else to add to close out? It's been an incredible conversation. We could dive in, but, you know, I'm sure you have a full day ahead of nonstop meetings. So, Jenna Villalobos: No, I appreciate the questions. I love how you make me think, Adam, so I really appreciate it. It was a pleasure. Adam Mogelonsky: Jenna, it's been a delightful conversation, highly educational, and really just mind-blowing in terms of the amount of technical details that we got into and that you bring every day to commercial strategy. I can't thank you enough for coming on the show. Jenna Villalobos: Well, aloha. Thank you, Adam, and have a beautiful day. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah, you too. Thanks.