Latest / It’s All Your Fault: High Conflict People / What If I’m High Conflict?
Transcript
- Megan Hunter: Welcome to It's All Your Fault, on TruStory FM. The one and only podcast dedicated to helping you identify and deal with the most challenging human interactions, those with someone who may have a high conflict personality. I'm Megan Hunter, and I'm here with my co-host, Bill Eddy. Bill Eddy: Hi, everybody. Megan Hunter: We are the co-founders of the High Conflict Institute in San Diego, California. In this episode, we're going to focus on someone who may think that they have a high conflict personality and what they can do about it. But first, a couple of notes. If you have a question about high conflict situations or people send them to podcast@highconflictinstitute.com. Or on our website at highconflictinstitute.com/podcast, where you'll find the show notes and links as well. Please give us a rate or review and tell your friends, colleagues, or family about us, especially if they're dealing with a high conflict situation. We're very grateful. Now, let's talk about self-awareness. In our seminars, we are frequently approached during a break, or maybe during lunch or afterwards by someone, or often by more than one person, who may be a little disturbed and confess a concern that they may be high conflict, after hearing us talk about the four key characteristics of the high conflict pattern. And I usually respond with a smile and deliver the message that self-awareness is a key indicator that one is likely not high conflict. However, we all have a little junk in our trunk, so to speak. But in more polite terms, everyone has a different recipe that's been building throughout our lifetimes that make us who we are. And depending on the inputs, which can be anything from genetics to attachment, to trauma and loss, we may lean towards some all-or-nothing thinking or unmanaged emotions. It could be different in different cases, obviously. And with self-awareness comes opportunity to address it. The question is, what can I do if I fit some of these high conflict patterns if I recognize these in my life? So Bill, where shall we start? How about with some self-awareness? Let's assume someone has become aware that they may have a high conflict pattern. First, does that mean that they have to have all four characteristics of the high conflict personality, or maybe just some? We could call that maybe HCP light. What do you think? Bill Eddy: First of all, we think of four characteristics. Preoccupied with blaming others, all-or-nothing thinking, unmanaged emotions, and extreme behaviors. So these are often interrelated, but there is a continuum. So some people have a lot more of this than others. And to me, the line that gets crossed, the big line is if they can only blame other people and not take any responsibility. So if it's 100% all somebody else's fault and 0% your fault, that's when you're getting into maybe having these personality traits. But how extreme they are ... I would say if you have one of these, you probably have some at least of the others. Yet you can work on each of them, in some ways, separately. I was trained as a therapist in cognitive therapy, and cognitive therapy teaches you to change how you think. And it's amazing. If you can change how you think, then you can influence how you feel. And how you feel influences how you act. So it's often the easiest place to start, is to work on looking at what your thoughts are. And you said Megan, about self-awareness, and a lot of people aren't aware of their thoughts. And when you think about it, like you're angry at somebody. Somebody did something and you just feel like, I can't let them get away with this. That's a common high conflict thought. And if you write that down and then you look and see, is there any all-or-nothing thinking in there? And you go, well, yeah. It's all that person's fault. And I can't let them get away with this. That's the kind of thing that gets a lot of people into trouble, because they think they have to do something to or about the other person. And so if you go, well, wait a minute. There's some all-or-nothing ... like it's all their fault, not mine at all. And that I have to teach them ... Do I have to teach them a lesson? So you start asking yourself these questions. Maybe I don't need to teach them a lesson. And maybe it isn't all about them. Maybe it's partly about me. And you start looking for a more realistic thought that goes with this. And that is what that person did bothered me, but I always have choices. Well, wow. When you say that, suddenly your feelings go down. You're not as anxious or angry. And you're much less likely to go do something that may be harmful, so you can think it through. So in many ways, a really good place to start is in realizing how you're thinking and challenging ... some people like to call them ANTs. Automatic negative thoughts. And challenge those little ANTs and replace them with more realistic thoughts. And that's a good starting place, but this is just one little thing you can do. People can also get engaged in programs of change. There's dialectical behavior therapy, which helps people with borderline personality traits, and even others. Some people have a substance abuse problem related to this. Getting into recovery for that often helps their high conflict behavior reduce. So programs of change are also a way to look at this. Megan Hunter: So as you were talking about self-awareness and changing your thoughts ... I've been watching a television series called Alone. So if you listeners have been watching that, you know exactly what I'm talking about. But participants in the show are dropped off at very extraordinarily, extremely remote locations, all entirely on their own and with a few survival tools. And whoever can last the longest, wins half a million dollars. But they have their own cameras and they don't see another human being for the entire time. It's probably one of the most challenging things that a human can do, really, the survival and trying to procure their own food. So they're losing 50, 60 pounds in that many days. And what I've observed is those that seem to carry through to the end have absolutely changed their thoughts. They're starving to death, literally. And getting closer to death, literally by the day. But they say, I want to go home. I miss my family. I miss humans. I miss food. I need, I need, I need. But I'm a survivor. I can change my thoughts and I'll be positive and it's going to get better. And it is remarkable to watch how they change after they change their thoughts. Bill Eddy: Yeah, well that reminds me, actually. Recently I saw a picture of Nelson Mandela's home for 20 years in prison. He had a little tiny desk and a basically empty room, and he spent more than 20 years in prison there. And then became the national leader of South Africa and eased a transition that easily could have been terrible, violent, high conflict, for sure. And I was thinking, I'll bet he really did a lot of thinking and working on his thoughts. And he came out, really in many ways, as a mediator. Even though when he went in, I think part of being arrested was he was involved in some violence to overthrow the government, which the smooth transition he helped with was a very different approach. And so yes, being alone, you can still change your thinking, change your feelings, and change your behavior. It's amazing. Megan Hunter: And I almost think it's maybe more forced on you when you are alone. It's probably the greatest opportunity to effect change, when you're alone with your thoughts. But anyway, so you've talked a bit about programs of change. Once a person does have this level of awareness that, look, I do blame and I have those automatic negative thoughts, what are some of the things they can do to address this? Bill Eddy: Well, one thing I was thinking is, in a sense program of change, is going to a therapist. Going to an individual therapist. And the thing to work on with the therapist is tell the therapist, I want to work on what I can do. Because many people with high conflict tendencies, that preoccupation with blaming others, they go to a therapist and they say, how awful everyone else is in their life. And sometimes they convince the therapist to agree and be sympathetic and empathetic and supportive. It's terrible your husband treats you that way, or it's terrible your wife talks about you that way. And you don't know that they're getting an accurate picture, because if you have tendency towards high conflict thinking and behaviors, et cetera, that can distort what's really going on. And you may tell a therapist that your husband or wife is terrible in what they're doing, and they may not even be doing what you're saying. It's your perception of what they're doing. So when some people with high conflict tendencies see therapists, they spend all the time blaming. You want to just say, if I get into that, redirect me back to what I can do. What can I do differently? And I encourage therapists and clients in therapy to work on two main questions. The first is, what's my part in this problem? So they're talking about marriage or work or something. What's my part in this problem? And that's the self-awareness. And the second is, what can I do differently next time, or in the future in similar situations? And those two questions can easily fill up a therapist appointment and be very productive, because that's what high conflict people can't do. They can't look at their part in a problem and they don't try to change. That's actually two questions to ask if you have a personality disorder, because personality disorders are enduring and generally don't change. And it's because people can't see their part in a problem and people can't try new behaviors. So those two questions and working with a counselor would be another way to really help yourself. Megan Hunter: Do you think it's possible to change without having a counselor or a program of change? Can someone do this on their own? Bill Eddy: I think to some extent, people can. A lot of it. I really encourage people to do writing, journaling, et cetera, so you become more aware of your own thinking. And then look at how can I change this thinking? What can I do? So to some extent, people can do this on their own. The trouble is when you're alone, you're listening to your own thoughts, and it helps to get some outside perspective for more positive stuff, as well as more accurate, maybe feedback about some negative behaviors you want to change. So it's possible. And certainly through books, there's a lot of self-help books, there's a lot of daily diary books, all of these things that help. Yes, you can do this to some extent alone, but you're always encouraged to do it with at least an individual therapist. And in many ways, a group. As we said with, can people change, it's often the social environment you're in. It can help you change positive or help you change negative. So finding a healthy, good environment can also help these changes happen. Megan Hunter: I've often wondered if ... or I thought about reality television as a good test for people who watch themselves on these shows. If those who have some insight like, oh, I was behaving terribly. They have insight and then you see them in the next season behaving with a lot more discipline, and less high conflict, I should say. And then others who just, they never change, season-to-season, over years. And I think those are probably your folks who probably have a high conflict personality. Bill Eddy: Yeah. Megan Hunter: So might be a good way to test, but not everybody can do that. There's very few that are on reality television, but it's kind of interesting. So here's an interesting take. When do you know that you've been successful? Or can you be successful? Can you change your way out of high conflict patterns? I think about ... I wonder if some might be listening and think, well, if I just do these things, then I'm clear and free and I'll never have a negative thought again. But I guess the test would be whether their relationships improve and self-management skills improve? Bill Eddy: It's at different levels. Because many times when people do improve their behavior around high conflict behavior, thinking, feelings, they're self-aware of that. They can go, I've gone a while and I haven't felt that rage or that fear. Things are going okay. And often when you're growing in a personal development way, you don't really realize it until you start noticing there's an absence of the bad stuff. That there's an absence of some of that anger, anxiety, fear, and that it's been a longer and longer time. Now, it doesn't just go away. This all, isn't a switch. And sometimes you may find yourself upset, but you're not as upset as you used to be. Or you might feel things as intensely, but for a briefer period of time. Like grieving and healing, you go through these five stages, denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. And I know counseling people over the loss of a relationship or over the loss of a loved one, someone who died, and people will say, I still get intensely, that feeling of sadness, but it doesn't last as long. It doesn't stop me in my tracks like it used to. So don't be surprised that you sometimes have the same intensity, but notice if it ... like an hour later, you've already moved on to something else. Then that's good. I remember one guy I had in counseling. And he was a firefighter and had gone through a trauma. And we talked about that he really wasn't sure about the future. And we talked about that he made one or 2% progress. And I said, build on that. Remember that one or 2%, you are making progress. And so in his own recovery, that kind of helped him. He said, I always hold on to that. I'm making progress. Even if it's 1%, that's progress and I can build on that. Megan Hunter: Yeah. I like that. That's important. So now let's switch to whether you should tell those in your life, like friends or family that you believe you have a high conflict personality. And then a follow up to that is if you do, should you ask them to hold you accountable, and what that means. And as we both know, this can be a really dicey area, because you don't want someone beating you over the head with it or judging you or shaming you. It's an area that I believe requires a great deal of caution, which likely means you need to speak to someone who can really provide you with some wisdom and guidance. What are your thoughts on that, Bill? Bill Eddy: Yeah. I really think we need to steer clear of labels. Clear of labeling other people, but also labeling ourselves. It boxes you in. And sadly, in society, having a mental health disorder, having a high conflict personality, these are things that generally people think aren't good to have. And so it's tempting, but don't invite criticism and unnecessary feedback by saying, I think I have a personality disorder, or I think I have a high conflict personality. Because that makes it too big, makes it global. It's like your whole person somehow has an issue. Instead, I think if you want feedback, ask people for feedback on what just happened today, or what just happened now. Can you give some feedback? You were in that meeting with me, what do you think about what I said? I got upset for a couple minutes there. Did it come across clear or did it come across as abrupt or something? And so get feedback on very specific behavior, and that way you can change behavior. But when you say, hey, I think I have a high conflict personality. You may find people wanting to be tiptoeing around you, being unsure what that means. I think it's better to keep that to yourself and work on behavior. And if you ask for feedback, just ask for feedback on specific behavior. And focus on the future and say, I didn't feel good about how that discussion we just had went. Do you have any suggestions for how I could be more effective in the future, or how I come across better? Because sometimes people ... There's this thing. There's intention and there's the impact you have, like two people having a conversation. And my intention is to show that I care about the other person, but the impact it had on them was they felt negative. Like teasing. Teasing is a great example of that. People tease people they love, but unless you know that this is teasing, you may feel like somebody you care about is now insulting you. And it's like, whoa, what happened just then? What do you mean what happened? I was giving you a friendly ribbing. Oh, I thought you were serious. And so intent and impact are something to be aware of. Try to steer clear of labels, but focus on, we can always improve our own behavior. Megan Hunter: Absolutely. And labels are sticky. Bill Eddy: Yep. Megan Hunter: If you tell someone that, hey, I'm high conflict. I have a high conflict personality, but I'm working on it. They're not going to remember the working on it part. They're going to remember what you've called yourself or what you've labeled yourself. And so just be very wary of that and cautious. And like Bill said, just focus on what to do. Bill Eddy: Let me just add something before I forget it, is we teach about personality disorders, high conflict personalities, all of that as background information. So we really try to steer clear of sticking that to any specific person. Unless they're, of course, the leader of a country that's invading another country, then we might get a little bit more general about them. Megan Hunter: Right. Okay. Good information, Bill. So I hope this is really helpful to you if you're listening to this. And we can all take a little look at ourselves and see how we're doing, and improve our relationships by taking a look inward and take the sharp edge off those corners. So ultimately, it will improve life for you and for those around you. So thank you for listening. Now, next week we'll talk narcissists, the great dividers. And how to handle some of the most common issues that they present. Send your questions to podcast@highconflictinstitute.com. Or submit them to highconflictinstitute.com/podcast. We'd be very grateful if you leave a review wherever you listen to our podcast. Until next week, have a great week and keep learning about high conflict behavior so you can manage it in your life and keep striving toward the missing piece. It's All Your Fault is a production of TruStory FM. Engineering by Andy Nelson, music by Wolf Samuels, John Coggins, and Ziv Moran. Find the show, show notes, and transcripts at truestory.fm or highconflictinstitute.com/podcast. If your podcast app allows ratings and reviews, please consider doing that for our show.