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The Power of Nitric Oxide: A Deep Dive with Dr. Nathan Bryan · Hardiness with Dr Paul Taylor

• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Doctor Nathan Bryan. Welcome to the podcast.
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: Hey Paul, great to see you. Thanks for having me on.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: Where do we find you?
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: You know, I'm not sure how our paths crossed. I
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: have an agent that does a lot of my media.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: No sor sorry, sorry mate, I meant we're in the world.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: Are you physically.
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  Speaker 2: My physically? Well, today I'm in Miami, but I'm originally
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: from Texas. Last week i was in Brazil today, as
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: I'm in Miami tomorrow min Orlando and then back in
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  Speaker 2: Texas on Saturday.
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  Speaker 1: Wow. And yeah, that that's a bit challenging, all of
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: that travel. And so you are. You are a pioneering
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: scientist and a health innovator and also a bit of
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: a biotech innovator. And give our listeners a little bit
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: of a tour, just a two minute tour of your
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: career so far, and then we'll then talk about what
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: you're really interested in at the minute.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah sure. Now, I'm a small town Texas boy. I
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: went to the University of Texas at Austin, where I
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  Speaker 2: got a degree in biochemistry. I then went to LSU
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: School of Medicine. I finished a PhD in molecular in
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  Speaker 2: sitular physiology. I did additional training in Boston and Boston
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: University Medical Center and the Whitaker Cardiovascer Institute, and everything
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: I've done was related to the research around nitric oxide
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  Speaker 2: and indigen signaling molecule. And then from Boston I was
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: offered a faculty position as a professor of molecular medicine
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  Speaker 2: under ferredmad one of the gentlemen who shared the Nobel
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: Prize for the discovery of microcoside. And that was in
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: two thousand and five. I started my own independent research
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: career and we made a lot of discoveries and fought
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: a lot of patents, and you know, I went from
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  Speaker 2: a you know, basic science researcher into a serial entrepreneur.
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  Speaker 1: Very cool and look nitric oxide. So I know a
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: little bit about nitric oxide. I'm sure our listeners will
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: have heard of it. And the things that I know
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: about nitric oxide they're pretty thin on the ground. But
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: I know it's a ves of ves of dilator. I
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: know it's a signaling molecule. I know that beetroot juice
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  Speaker 1: enhances it, and it's actually an effective sports supplement for
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: particularly for aerobic performance. I know that nasal breathing is
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  Speaker 1: better than mouth breathing for nitric oxide. But that's about
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  Speaker 1: the limit of it. So talk us through, just at
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  Speaker 1: a high level, the discovery of it and why guys
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  Speaker 1: won a Nobel Prize around it.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, well you get three out of four. Palm beats
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  Speaker 2: in fact, aren't a great source of nitrocoxide. Oh, we'll
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: actually get into that. The other three are re absolutely correct.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: But you know, nitrocoxide was discovered in the late seventies
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  Speaker 2: and early eighties, and it was Fred Murad's discoveries that
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: drugs like nitroglycerin, and these drugs have been used for
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  Speaker 2: one hundred years prior to the nineteen seventies for the
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: treatment of acute angelin in patients with obstructive cornery art disease,
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  Speaker 2: but no one knew how they worked. Are they just
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: physicians used them because they were very effective at dilating
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  Speaker 2: the cornery arteries and improving blood flow to the heart.
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  Speaker 2: And Fred's in nineteen seventy seven paper discovered that these drugs,
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  Speaker 2: called organic nitrates like nitroglycrin, are metabolized into a molecule
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  Speaker 2: that activates a second messenger system that causes smooth muscle
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  Speaker 2: relaxation in vasodilation. That was a very important discovery in
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: terms of pharmacology. And then in nineteen eighty Bob Firscott,
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  Speaker 2: in a completely independent research program discovered that the endothelial
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  Speaker 2: cells that line all the blood belsts without the body
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  Speaker 2: produced again a molecule that activated the smooth muscle of
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  Speaker 2: the blood vessels and caused the blood vessels to relax
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  Speaker 2: and he termed this endothelium derived relaxing factor or EDERF,
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  Speaker 2: so he knew it was released from the endothelium, he
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  Speaker 2: knew what it did, but he did know what it was.
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  Speaker 2: And then in nineteen eighty seven Loulignaro discovered that EDERF
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  Speaker 2: is nitrocoxide, and other studies were showing that nitroglistern has
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  Speaker 2: been tabilized into nitrocoxide gas and that was responsible for
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  Speaker 2: vaso relaxation and vaso dilation. So the story was come
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  Speaker 2: together that nitrocoxide is a signaling molecule in the cardiovascar system.
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  Speaker 2: So whether you activate or stimulate endogenous nitrocoxide production, or
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  Speaker 2: you give exogenous nitrocoxide active medication or product technology, it
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  Speaker 2: all leads to smooth muscle relaxation. Vasodilation and then you
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  Speaker 2: get improved bud flow and oxygen delivery to every organ,
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  Speaker 2: tissue and sell on the body. That was the basis
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  Speaker 2: for the Nobel price.
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  Speaker 1: And is it purely working on endesthelial cells or is
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  Speaker 1: it noigh known to work on other cells in the body,
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  Speaker 1: And maybe give our listeners just a bit of a
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  Speaker 1: view on the importance of the interaction with endothedeal cells
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  Speaker 1: why that's so important for our cardiovascular health.
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  Speaker 2: Well, first we have to understand that nitrocoxide's a gas, right,
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  Speaker 2: It's a gas that's produced in the endothelial cells, and
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  Speaker 2: once it's produced, it's gone in less than a second.
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  Speaker 2: So thirty years ago was thought that nitrocoxete could only
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  Speaker 2: act in the cell in which it was produced or
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  Speaker 2: a neighboring cell. So when nitrocoxide's produced in the endothelo cells,
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  Speaker 2: it regulates the expression of adhesion molecules on the end
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  Speaker 2: of thenol cells themselves. So we call that an auurcrine function.
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  Speaker 2: The nitrocoxide is working in the cell in which it
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  Speaker 2: was produced. When we look at the vase of relaxation studies,
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  Speaker 2: we call this a pariicrine effect because it's affecting neighboring cells,
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  Speaker 2: and then there's endocrine effects similar to hormones. And so
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  Speaker 2: it wasn't thought that nitrocoxide could be a hormone or
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: have endocrine effects because once it's produced, it's going in
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  Speaker 2: less than a second. But my two thousand and seven
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  Speaker 2: paper we published in the Procedings in National Academy of
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  Speaker 2: Science shown demonstrated that nitrocoxide is in fact a hormone.
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  Speaker 2: That nitrocoxide produced in one cell in the body can
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  Speaker 2: be transported throughout the cardiovascosystem and effects cells distally. So
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  Speaker 2: now nitrocoxide is considered a hormone, but it's produced in
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  Speaker 2: the end of thilo cells. It's produced in our neurons.
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  Speaker 2: Our immune cells upregulated nitrocoxide enzyme about four hours after
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  Speaker 2: we see an infection, four hours after a wound response
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  Speaker 2: or cytokine storm, and this is what we call inducible
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  Speaker 2: nitrocoxide synthase. But it's naturally and constituently produced in the
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  Speaker 2: end of thyl cells in the neurons, and then it's
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  Speaker 2: upregulated in the immune cells, but then it's quickly turned
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  Speaker 2: off its efforts killed the infection or elicited in an
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: acute inflammatory response.
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  Speaker 1: Interesting, it's kind of a little bit like my muscle
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  Speaker 1: myokines then, because when I first did my masters in
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: sports science, where we knew that myokines were molecules that
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  Speaker 1: were released in muscles, and they were thought only to
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  Speaker 1: have autocrime effects. I so, so for the listeners, we're
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: getting a bit giggy here, right, But that means has
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  Speaker 1: an effect on the cell in which it's produced. And
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  Speaker 1: then they discovered that that maocines also had parachrome effects, which,
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  Speaker 1: as you said, means that they then affect neighboring cells.
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  Speaker 1: But I think the game changer around myocins was that
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: they actually get out of circulated, get out of the
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: muscle into circulation, and then have effects on different organs.
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  Speaker 1: So natric oxide apparently then has followed the same pathway
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  Speaker 1: in terms of discoveries, because that's an absolute game changer
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  Speaker 1: that then started people to view musculital muscle is an
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  Speaker 1: endocrine organ and producing its own molecules that affect other organs.
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  Speaker 1: So talk to us about a little bit about So
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  Speaker 1: I knew it was important in endothelial cells. I obviously
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  Speaker 1: didn't know about the neurons and the immune cells. So
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  Speaker 1: so look, you touched on a little bit on the
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  Speaker 1: in the immune cells, but just tell us what is it,
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  Speaker 1: What role does it seem to be playing in our
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: immune cells, our immune system overall, and what roles are
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  Speaker 1: playing in neurons, because that obviously then opens up the
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  Speaker 1: whole conversation abright, brain health and neurodegenitive diseases.
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  Speaker 2: For sure, Well, it's part of our nate immune system.
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  Speaker 2: So the best example is, you know, the first was
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  Speaker 2: in bacterial infections. So when we're exposed to bacterium, you know,
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  Speaker 2: our immune cells have to become mobilized, right, and so
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  Speaker 2: these immune cells go to the side of infection, and
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  Speaker 2: again it takes four hours from these cido kinds to
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  Speaker 2: induce the nuclear expression of these This inducible nitrocoxide syntha
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  Speaker 2: synzyme found primarily in macrophages and neutrophils to some extent,
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  Speaker 2: and monocytes, but it goes to the side of infection.
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  Speaker 2: It produces a lot of nitrocoxide over a short period
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  Speaker 2: of time. That nitric oxide is designed to iron, to
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  Speaker 2: bind to the iron sulfur centers of bacteria, and it
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  Speaker 2: completely shuts down bacterial respiration. Oh wow, that's how that's
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  Speaker 2: how innate immune responds. It also occurs when we have
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  Speaker 2: a wound, you know, a cut or something, same deal,
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  Speaker 2: but we have to get those immune cells there and
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  Speaker 2: then you create that acute inflammation and that's what we see,
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  Speaker 2: you know, the heat, the color, the signs of inflammation.
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  Speaker 2: That's mediated by nitroc oxide. So if we have a
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  Speaker 2: robust immune response, we have inducible nitrocoxide synthest but more importantly,
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  Speaker 2: we have a functional vasculture to dilate the blood vessels
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  Speaker 2: to get the immune cells to the side of infection
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  Speaker 2: or the side of injury. Then the immune cells can
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  Speaker 2: do their job and then a lot of nitric oxide
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  Speaker 2: short period of time down regulate it, and then it's over.
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  Speaker 2: It's the acute inflammatory response to infections. And then furthermore,
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  Speaker 2: it shuts down virus replication. You know, in two thousand
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  Speaker 2: and five, it was reported that nitric oxide prevents the
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  Speaker 2: chronavirus from replicating.
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  Speaker 1: Oh wow, Then fast.
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  Speaker 2: Forward fifteen years. You know, you know that people that
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  Speaker 2: were getting sick and dying from COVID were the ones
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  Speaker 2: who couldn't make nitrocoxide, which were the elderly prior heart
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  Speaker 2: attack diabetes, hypertensive kiddy disease.
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  Speaker 1: And that means, sorry, Nathan, by not being able to
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  Speaker 1: make nitric oxide, your immune response to those infections basically
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  Speaker 1: fell through the floor. Lam.
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  Speaker 2: You become severely immuno compromised, and you become highly susceptible
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  Speaker 2: to respiratory viruses including coronavirus.
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  Speaker 1: Wow. And then let's talk about its rolling neurons and
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  Speaker 1: and when was that first identified?
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  Speaker 2: You know, that was the first pathway to be discovered
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  Speaker 2: because NOS one is the neuronal nitrocoxide synthesis, the first
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  Speaker 2: form that was discovered in clone. But it's produced in
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  Speaker 2: our neurons and it's part of this you know, retrograde messaging.
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  Speaker 2: So these it's it's produced in the post synaptic terminal
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  Speaker 2: in a certain post and aptic clip and then it's
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  Speaker 2: it diffuses back up and then controls the regulation of
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  Speaker 2: things like you know, the glutamate, the r U MDA
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  Speaker 2: receptors and in signaling through that. But it's involved in
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: long term memory potentiation. It's a neurotransmitter, but critically important
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  Speaker 2: in nerve in neurotransmission.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, So just to maybe explain that to the lay
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  Speaker 1: people again, are our neurons communicate in two ways. They
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  Speaker 1: communicate electrically down the neurons and then from neurons to
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  Speaker 1: neuron there's this gap called the synapse, and neurotransmitters are
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: used across the gap. That's why neurotransmitters are important. Right,
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  Speaker 1: So if it's acting on the post synaptic neuron, it's
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  Speaker 1: basically helping receive the signal from the other neuron, and
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  Speaker 1: without that you don't get neurocommunication, right.
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  Speaker 2: That's exactly right. So there has to be regulation in
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: cell signaling. And that's that's what cell signing is. It's
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: it's regulation of certain neurotransmitters or certain hormones or certain
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  Speaker 2: other signaling molecules or second messenger systems, and you turn
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: them on and then there has to be an off switch.
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  Speaker 2: And that requires cell to cell communication and adequate communication
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  Speaker 2: not just between that you know, synaptic cleft between those terminals,
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: but communication from one neuron to the next. And so
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  Speaker 2: the interesting thing about nitrocoxides is a gas, so once
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  Speaker 2: it's produced, it can diffuse in three dimensions and it
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: goes back and regulates you know, upstream signal.
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  Speaker 1: And then is it recycled.
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  Speaker 2: It is so nitric oxide is oxidized to nitrite and nitride,
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  Speaker 2: and then you know, we have nitrite reductant enzymes that
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: re reduce the reform nitrocoxide. But there's continuing metabolic shuttling.
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  Speaker 2: We published on this in twenty eleven that once nitrocoxide
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: is produced, you get al citrolene as a byproduct. Right,
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: it's a metabolic byproduct. And the partially you recycle, which
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: is present in every cell in the body, converts the
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: citrilline back to arginine. So now argentine is available to
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: reproduce and make microcoxide through the nitrogoxide. So there's this
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: beautiful intramolecular shuttling of metabolites to recycle and to completely
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  Speaker 2: reform microcoxite.
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  Speaker 1: How freaking cod is the human body.
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  Speaker 2: It's amazing, you know everything. The more I learned, the
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: more I'm intrigued and just impressed by how smart the
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: human body is. You know, it's certainly smarter than we
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: are come with medicine. Is we got to get out
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: of the way, let the body do its job.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, well exactly. And actually, as you because you as
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: you're talking about this, I'm thinking about because you know,
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: doing research and then you just discover a little bit,
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  Speaker 1: and then you start to get excited about stuff and
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: you're like, why doesn't everybody know about this? Like what
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: tell us? What was this like when you were doing
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: your pH d in this area, working under guys who
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: had actually discovered nitric oxide, and then publishing other papers
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  Speaker 1: like like that is for me, that is the new
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: Christopher Columbus exploreer type thing, right, this is where all
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: the discovery is left is inside our bodies. To just
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: talk us through, you know, your thought processes and levels
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: of excitement as you're starting to study this stuff.
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  Speaker 2: Now, look, I had very good and really good mentors
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  Speaker 2: that really gave me a different way to think than
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: most people. You know, research is to see what everyone
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: else has seen, but think what no one else has thought.
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  Speaker 2: So that's been, you know, ingrained in my mind since
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: I was a student. But once we started developing analytical
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: techniques where we could detect nitrocoxide at levels produced in
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: biological systems, then that provided us with tools and really
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: very few labs in the world had, and so you know,
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: we were publishing, you know, in some years, ten to
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: twelve peer reviewed original research papers a year.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: Wow.
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  Speaker 2: And then when I when I started my own research career.
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  Speaker 2: You know, for the first year, all I did I
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: didn't hire anybody. I didn't hire any student, any postdocs,
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: any technicians. I just went in the lab and I
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: started enabling patents because I knew that if I could,
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: I could find a way to make microcoxide, then I
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: could really have a way to change in the world.
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: And so I've been very fortunate and blessed to have
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: you know, several Eureka moments, you know, these aha moments
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: in the lab that for a minute I knew what
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: no one else in the world knew.
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: That's pretty cool, isn't it. Now?
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: That is cool? And look, that's I mean, that's what
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: drew me to science because there's nothing like the feeling
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: of discovery. And as you know, in science, you have
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: complete intellectual freedom. We can ask any question we want
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: and we can design an experiment to get an answer. Now,
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: it may not be the answer we're looking for, but
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: discoveries come from getting answers that you're not looking for,
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: the answers that are unexpected. And so that's what, you know,
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: that was my passion. And then you know, just documenting
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: it and filling out invention disclosure, submitting it to the
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: university so they can have their lawyers reviewed and then
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: submit patents on it. Because you know, we we know
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: how to do things that no one else in the
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: world had been able to do.
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: That's pretty exciting and I love that what your mentor
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: said that that it's about seeing what other people are seeing,
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: but but but thinking what other people aren't thinking that differently. Yeah, yeah,
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: that's that's that's the whole thing around it. And so
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: you talk about in your book, So you've written a
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: book on this obviously, so a bit of an expert
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: in it. Let's talk about nitric oxides and both produced
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: in the body. So you've mentioned that enzymatic and an
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: n dietary nitric oxide. So talk us through the relative
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: contributions and the interactions between those things.
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: Well, in physiology, there's enormous redundancy, right, so there's more
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: than one way is to get to these are compensatory systems.
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: Because the thought is, if this is an absolutely foundational
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: central molecule, which we all believe it is, then it
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: didn't make sense that nature devised a single pathway of production.
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: And that single pathway through this enzyme is a very
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: complex complicated five electron multi step oxidation reaction. It's energetically
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: and kinetically unfavorable. Right, So the thought was, there has
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: to be a different way to get this molecule to signal.
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: If it is as important as we believe it is
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: as a fundamental SIGNI molecule, then surely there's a different backup,
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: kind of compensatory, redundant pathway. And the answer came from
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: our diet and the bacterium. So the things like a
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: Japanese diet or a Mediterranean diet or a plant based diet,
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: the cardioprotective benefits of those dietary patterns can be explained
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: by nitrocoxide. These dietary patterns are incorporating foods with inorganic nitrate.
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: So this isn't organic nitrate like nitroglycerin. It's inorganic nitrate
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: in a three minus. It's part of the nitrogen cycle,
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: like when you add fertilizer to soil or you had compost,
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: it's nitrogen based and the cells the plants assimilate that
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: as nitrate, and then when we consume these plants, we're
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: consuming nitrate. Now, the interesting thing about this pathway is
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: nitrate is inert in humans. Humans do not have a
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: functional nitrate reductase enzyme. So, because we have the bacteria
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: that live in and on our body that have these
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: functional nitrate reductase enzymes, as long as we have the
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: right bacteria in our mouth, in our gut, now the
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: human body or the bacteria on and in the human
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: body can metabolize this into nitrocoxide metabolites. And then we
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: swallow our own saliva. And as long as we have
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: sufficient stomach acid production, we're getting nitrocoxide being produced in
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: the lumine of the stomach. And again, nitrocoxide produced anywhere
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: in the body, whether it's in the end of thenal cells,
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: whether it's in the lumine of the acidic stomach or
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: in the gut, it has systemic effects and it's a
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: hormone that's released the ghost systemic. So there's nitrocoxide production
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: sites that we can capture that hormone and then it
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: goes to stemic. But again this is dependent upon the
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: right diet. It's dependent upon the optimal microbiome, primarily on
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: the cryps of the tongue, and it's dependent upon stomach
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: acid production. And now when you start to look at
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: the contributions of a poor diet to chronic disease. Yes,
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: attributions of this biosis to chronic disease. Yes, contributions to
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: lack of stomach acid production and the preponderance of of
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: or the the you know, the use, the overuse and
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: misuse of ant acids. It's no wonder why the globe
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: is sick and pretty best, disease is the number one killer.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: As you were talking about that, I'm thinking about antacids.
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: I'm also thinking about mousewash and things like that that
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: affect bacteria. And if we take a step back, isn't
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: it interesting that bacteria that and our microbes seem to
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: be the mediators between and the outside waters. Like I've
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: often talked about, we are not just an ecosystem, we
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: are a super ecosystem. And without all of these bacteria,
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: we just don't function, do we.
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: Now. Look, you know, one hundred years ago, we didn't
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: understand what a microbiome was. We thought all bacteria were
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: pathogenic and harmful, and we just had to kill all
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: the bacteria. And unfortunately, some of those same practices, especially
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: in dental medicine, trying to kill all the bacteria in
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: our mouth has survived one hundred years despite today knowing
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: that the human body is actually ten times more bacteria
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: than we are human cells. The microbiome, the bacteria that
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: live in and on our body outnumber our human cells
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: ten to one. Furthermore, the human genome is only coding
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: for about twenty three thousand gene products. The bacteria the
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: microbiome code for three million gene products and more than
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: one hundred times. So these bacteria that live in and
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: on our body. Look, we study the nitrocoxide producing effects
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: of this, but you know these bacteria are there. It's
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: a true symbiotic relationship. They're providing the human host essential
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: metabolites and providing metabolic machinery that humans don't have. And
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: so for killing these bacteria, we get human disease. I mean,
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: that is indisputable today in science and medicine.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: So what's the implication? And I think people should just
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: let that settle in their heads and maybe even just
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: rewind it for a minute and listen to you say
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: that again, because it is just so critical how all
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: of these microbes are our mediators between us and our environment,
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: and that when we change these microbes, and a lot
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: of that is through our diet and other practices as
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: you say, medications, mouthwashes. We're actually changing how our super
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: ecosystem works. So what's the end that take home for
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: people here? Right, Let's start to get into that around diet.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: So you mentioned around the diet, the Japanese diet, the
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: Mediterranean diet, vegetarian, so basically eating lots of fruits vegetables,
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: which we're always told this is another reason why we
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: need to do it right because of those nitrates in
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: the interaction. So maybe just expand a little bit first
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: on diet, and then maybe you can get into dental
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: health and other ways that we can optimize or at
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: least not sabotize the whole nitric oxide process.
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: Well, I think to follow up on the take home message.
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: The take home message from all of this is we
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: have to support a healthy microbiome and we cannot kill it,
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: we cannot destroy it. So we have to start doing
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: the things that support a healthy, diverse microbiome and stop
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: doing the things that are destroyed. So we can take
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: these one by one. Diet, eighty percent of the nitric
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: exposure that we get that humans get eighty percent comes
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: from green.
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: Leafy vegetables Wow.
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: Only five percent comes from you cured and processed meats
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: to which nitrite and NITRATEE are added. Then the other
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: ten to fifteen percent comes from swallowing our own saliva
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: because when we make nitric oxide, it's reduced to nitor,
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: it's oxidized to nitrite and nitrata, and then it's recirculated
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: in our saliva. So that's the sources of exposure. So
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: and diet is not just about what we eat, but
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: it's about what we don't eat. And what we're finding
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: is the most important thing in affecting the microbiome are
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: high glycemic index foods and sugar. Because when we consume sugar,
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: it completely changes the oral microbiome. It completely changes the
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: gut microbiome, It lowers the pH of our saliva, It
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: allows for these pathogenic, opportunistic bacterium and creates an environment
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: where the nonpathogenic commensals have a hard time surviving. So
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: elimination of sugar in anything that causes an increase in
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: blood sugar. You know, these continuous glucose monitors are available everywhere,
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: and I encourage everyone to just do an experiment. We're
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: one for a week. Figure out how your body responds
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: to the foods that you're eating. Anything that causes a
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: surgeon festing or in blood sugar, then don't do that
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: because it's going to cause chronic it's going to cause
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: damage to your to you're into female sales into your
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: microbiome and completely shut down microcoxset.
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: Production, sorry, Nathan. As well as that, then the impact
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: on insulin and when you have consistently high insulin, just
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: the the destruction that happens throughout the human body of that.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: So that's two independent pathways by which eating a high
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: sugar diet and particularly the ultra processed foods that are around.
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: And are there any other compounds, Nathan, in all processed
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: foods other than the sugar and the high glycemic index
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: foods from eight processed carbohydrates. Is there any other thing
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: in ultra processed foods such as preservatives, flavor enhancers, or
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: emulsifiers that would compromise this pathway?
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: You know, we haven't really looked into that in terms
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: of we've done a lot of studies and looking doing
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: tongue scrapings and doing different interventions and seeing what's disrupting
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: the normal microbiome. I'm sure there are, you know, there's biofilms,
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: there's communities of bacteria, and then these emustifiers can destroy
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: that healthy microbiome in the biofilm. But you know, I'm
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: not aware of any controlled clinical studies looking at it.
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: The big takeaway is sugar. I mean, sugar is the enemy.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: Sugars the toxins. You said, it's the hyperglascemia, hyperinstalnemia that
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: drives inflammation and that drives chronic disease. So if we
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: can address that and the other thing in insulince signaling
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: and glucose up take, we published in twenty eleven that
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: microcoxide is part of the signaling pathway. If the cell
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: cannot make nitrocoxide, then glute four does not get the
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: signal to go to the membrane and bring glucose into
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: the cell. So insulin resistance is a symptom of nitrocoxide deficiency.
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: That's you can't you can't transduce the insulin signal into
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: glutephoor and glucose uptake without microcoxide.
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: That's really interesting. I didn't know what impacted on glute
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: four because I remember Geez thirty years ago and being
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: taught in when I was doing my Master's nutrition and
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: particularly sports nutrition, that glute four was basically a back
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: door way to get glucose into the cell. That that
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: that affected insulin but was independent of it. And the
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: sort of analogy I had was like insulin, you know
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: that pathway coming into the cell is one way, but
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: glute for was like a bouncer on the back door
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: and letting you in the backway into the club, right,
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: and it was another way to get into the sale.
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: I didn't realize that nitric oxide impacted on glute four. Wow,
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: that's interesting.
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: Now there's two cysteine residues that are conserved throughout evolution
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: on glute four, and it's nitrocoxide that binds those cysteine
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: residues that leads to post translational modification, and it's the
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: signal that tells glue ford because glute for is typically
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: a cytosolic protein, and only in this postpran glucose spike
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: does glute four go to the membrane and clear that
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: glucose from the circulation. So without nitrocoxide, if you have
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: advanced by constellation in products and the sugar is stuck
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: to that enzyme, it can't make nitrocoxide, and that's what
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: we call insimilar resistance.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: Oh right, So let me translate that from people because
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: people will be like, what language was he just talking?
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: Why didn't he just say that? So basically what you're
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: talking about. So when you ate, you get that insulin spike,
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: and nitric oxide plays a critical role in getting that
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: into the cell, getting that glucose into the cell. And
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: if it's not effective, then we keep using our insulin,
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: then we get insulin resistance and it just destroys all
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: of the organs in our body. Like high levels of
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: insulin is an absolute killer, as you said, drives inflammation,
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: which drives chronic disease. So nitric oxide is really important
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: in that absolutely critical step of disposing of blood glucose.
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: So let's talk about you mentioned the oral microbiome. All right,
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: let's talk a little bit about that and how do
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: we because a lot of people now, I think, know
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: about the gut microbiome and the importance of a healthy,
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: diverse gut microbiome, but digestion and particularly of carbohydrates, actually
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: starts in the mouth, and you mentioned that nitric oxide
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: and that that process actually starts in our mouth. The exogenist.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: So talk us through the importance of this and what
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: are the take homes for people? What are the dos
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: and don'ts around your oral microbiome.
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: Well, I'll kind of explain this pathw because this goes
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: back to nineteen seventy eight when it was first discovered
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: that nitrade that we get from our diet is about
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: twenty five percent reabsorbed in the kidneys, and so the
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: body reabsorbs it, right, So we're filtered and then reabsorbed.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: So the body is trying to conserve this molecule, but
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: initially it's concentrated in our salivary glanes and so the
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: nineteen seventies, it was scientists couldn't describe why the body
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: would intentionally concentrate nitride in our salbary lanes. Well, today
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: we understand that because ninety minutes after we consume a meal,
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: we start secreting that nitratee in our saliva and this
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: is acting as a prebiotic for these nitrate reducing bacteria.
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: So these are faculty of anaerobes that live on the
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: dorse part of the tongue, the back of the tongue,
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: deep in the crypts, and so they use this nitrogen
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: as an energy source, and they perform this two electron
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: reduction of nitrate to nitrite. So now our saliva is
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: enriched in nitrite. Then we swallow our saliva and we
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: have a stomach acid and we produce nitrocoxide in the
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: lumin of the stone. But all that's dependent upon the
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: right bacteria.
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: Wow, so we ate stuff, then there's there's a triggering
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: mechanism that goes right back up to the tongue that
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: then produces that did you say, nitrate or nitrite that
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: then goes down into the stomach to help digestion.
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: So that's that little circular thing whole stating. Wow, jeez,
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: that's fascinating, nod.
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: Look, and the nitrite that is in our saliva, it's antibacterial,
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: so it'll kill things like H. Pylori the old ah kill.
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: If you've got a little E. Coli, our botulism or
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: salmonella on your food and you have adequate nitrocoxide or
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: something tried in your saliva, it kills these bacteria in
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: the lumin of the stomach. And so to me is
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: about chemist and physiologists. The absolute worst thing that I
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: could ever imagine in disrupting normal human physiology is to
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: suppress stomach acid production. These drugs are used two hundred
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: million prescriptions in the US written every year and now
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: you don't even have that prescription.
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, talk us through that, because these those drugs are
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: are going crazy in terms of their use. So tell
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: us why that's happening. And there's an obvious thing here
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: in terms of understanding what the root causes and what
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: we're doing, as we often do in medicine, is don't
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: address the root cause and we put a bandy it
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: over it, which ends up making things worse.
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: Well. Number one, reflux. So these drugs called the class
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: of drugs were talking about are called proton pump inhibit
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: the poloric cells from making hyperchloric acid. And so they're
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: FDA approved in the US for the acute mitigation of
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: reflux disease acute gastrosulal reflux disease or GIRD. But when
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: you think about what causes reflux, it's insufficient stomach acid production.
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: Because when we eat protein, whether it's plant protein or
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: animal protein, it's foreign protein. But yet we're in we're
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: never designed. Humans are never designed to incorporate foreign proteins
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: into human protein. So what do we do. We eat
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: the protein. The stomach is made acidic by nature by design,
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: because in the acidic environment of the stomach, these proteins
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: are broken down in their constituent amino acids. Whether it's
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: plant protein or animal protein, you get the twenty one
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: constituent amino acids, and then these are absorbed throughout the
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: body and then we make human proteins out of those
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: amino acids. But without stomach acid, we can't break down
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: those proteins into amino acids because this is an acid
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: driven reaction. So what happens is our body is smart
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: right going. If we eat plant or animal proteins and
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: we can't break them down, then the body recognizes this
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: is a foreign object and I need to get it out.
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: And like just like if you eat, you know, the
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: bacterial laden lettuce, or you get food poison, what do
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: you do? You throw up because that's your body saying
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: I need to get this out of me. So in
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: a more subtile way than the body starts to regurgitate
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: or expectorate we call it, and that causes a little
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: bit of what little bit of acid is there into
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: the esophagus and you get gasrisulfhal reflux disease. But it's
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: a symptom of insufficient stomach acid production. So why in
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: the hell are we suppressing stomach acid. The solution is
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: to take apple side of vinegar, acidify the lumin of
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: the stomach so you can break down that protein int
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: amino acid. You don't get the reflux, you get good digestion,
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: you get absorption of you know, nutrients like D vitamins, iron, selenium, chromium,
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: you know basic micronutrients. We need stomach acid. So that's
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: that's the physiology. Now, these drugs have been on the
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: market now for several decades, and in twenty fifteen the
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: first kind of longitudinal prospective study came out. Because these
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: drugs were only approved for use for three to five days,
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: never daily, and never for years. So now in these
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: prospective studies you start to see that people have been
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: on these antacids for at least three years, forty percent
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: greater incidents of heart attack and true, Wow, this isn't risk.
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: I'm not talking about risk, I'm talking about actual events.
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: Forty percent increase in heart attach's true last year same
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: cohort forty percent greater incidents of Alzheimer's and dementia. So
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: then you go, okay, these are important clinical observations. What's
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: the mechanism. Let's work backwards. What's the mechanism. Why is
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: it causing heart attach stroke in Alzheimer's. Well, these proton
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: pump inhibitors are increasing what a molecule called asymmetric dimethyl
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: largeny or eight m A. It's a metabolite in a
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: market that it's measured clinically. Now that inhibits nitrocoxide production
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: in the neurons and in the in the ftal cells.
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: And if you don't have stomach acid production, you completely
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: inhibit the nitrocoxide being produced from swallowing run saliva. So
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: this one class of drugs is completely shutting down endogenous
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: nitrocoxide production in the human body change part a tech
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: stroke Alzheimer's, And.
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: It's where you find the nitric oxide having the effect
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: through the cardiovascar system and in the brain that we
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: talked about in the introduction. Absolutely, that is just mental.
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: Now you mentioned apple side of vinegar there and the
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: interesting study that I talked about. I don't know if
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: you saw the study where they had people take apple
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: side of vinegar in the morning. These were overwhe people
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: and they I think they had a few different doses,
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: but the people who were taking I think it was
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: twelve mills of apple side or vinegar and lost about
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: seven percent of their body weigh over twelve weeks, right,
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: which was just mental and for me that the there
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: was obviously a role of the acetate in the vinegar
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: being good for the gout microbiome, and I was thinking that,
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: but is it also then the apple side of vinegar
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: playing a role in better digestion and through the stomach acid.
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: So just expand on on that a little bit for us.
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: Well, this is basic GI physiology, right, we have to
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: have stomach acid, as I talked about to break down
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: proteins into amino acids, you have to have stomach acid
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: because many nutrients are absorbed in the gastricm coastal of
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: the stomach. It's like the vitamins can see irons iodide.
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: And then the other important component is when when the
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: when we have gastric empty, so when the when the
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: valve opens and we release the contents of the stomach
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: into the du autumn the proximate part of the small
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: intestine that acid dump signals the bile the gallbladder to
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: release bio the extreme pancreas to secrete sodium byicard into
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: that to neutralize that acid. Without an acid dump, we
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: don't get gallbladder function, we get gallstones. The pancreas doesn't
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: get the signals to secrete sodium bicards do. We get
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: pancrea titis, and then we lose acid base valance because
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: it's that acid dump it starts, and it's other hormones,
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: it's other secretory, it's you know, leptin in the brain
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: to tell you, hey, I'm full stop eating, stop grazing.
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: So that acid load from the gastric empty into the
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: duodenum is what starts that acid based balance and all
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: this signaling in GI physiology that we've known for you know,
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: at least my thirty years of education, both high school
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: and higher education. I mean that's basic gastric gastro intestinal physiology.
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: That is just pretty phenomenal. The role that stumps make
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: acid place in that so so apple side of bennigar
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: when you're taking that is just is helping the stomach
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: acid then then at stomach acid production or is it
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: just independently balance it? What what what's the what's the role.
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: Is it direct or indirect?
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: Well, it's it's certainly direct. I mean I don't I
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: don't know what effect it's having on the polleric cells
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: and making their own HCl, because if you look at
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: that biochemical reaction and in biochemistry, there's certain requirements to
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: make the end product right for the polar cells to
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: make hydrochloric as, you need idine, you need sodium chloride,
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: you need sodium bycar, you need zinc. And yet if
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: you can't make stomach acid, you're not absorbing zinc, you're
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: not absorbing B vitamins, you're not absorbing idel. So the
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: polaric cells can't make HCl. So again, if your body
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: can't make it, then we have how do we acidify
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: the stomach? And apple side of vinegar is just acetic
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: acid as a pH of about two, which is the
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: normal pH of the healthy stomach when the poller cells
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: are making hydrochloric acid. So I think it's just providing
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: an acid environment to an exogenous acid then allows the
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: digestion to occur.
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and if you start.
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: Supplementing with idine and B vitamins and ZC and attain hydrochloride,
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: now we can feel the power ex cells production of
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: their own hydrochloric acid. And that's that's what that's the
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: ultimate goal. Give the body what it needs so the
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: body can do its job and then get the hell
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: out of the way.
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: Let me take a step back, Nathan, and you mentioned
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: about the digestion of proteins in the stomach acid and
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: is there a role here if somebody is eating a
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: high protein diet, which is becoming I think a bit
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: more du rigueur, right, and then you have the extreme,
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: let's see the extreme of the carnivores. And is there
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: an issue with somebody on a carnivore diet who's not
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: eating a lot of leafy greens and not getting that
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: exogenous source of nitric oxide? What what's the implications have
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: you looked at this or is there a theoretical mechanism
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: that would be at play here or lack of mechanism.
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: I think what's happening, And again I don't have any
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: empirical data to support this, but I think what's happening
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: is Number One, when you eat a straight carnivore diet,
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: you're typically not getting that spike in blood sugar, so
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: your insulin sensitivity is improved, you're getting adequate breakdown of proteins,
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: you're getting adequate delivery as long as you're not eating
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: taking an an acid, which people that I know are
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: eating a carnivore diet typically don't take medication because they're
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: typically more healthy, they don't need medication. Yeah, but then
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: what's happening is that nitric oxide is being produced by
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: the lining of the boodvelts, the dial cells is reacting
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: with oxyhemoglobin and forming inorganic nitrate in the circulation, and
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: then that nitrate is going through the kidneys, it's being
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: reabsorbed concentrated in our salvary glands. And this is constant recycling.
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: So people who are healthy and have good metabolism and
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: have good endothelial function can recycle that nitrate that's produced
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: indigenally from the oxidation of microcoxide, and they can get
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: away with eating less. God God, all these pathways are intact.
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: And because those mechanisms are intact and they're not eating,
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: the benefit of is that they're not eating sugar and
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: process carbohydrates, so they're not sabotizing that. So they're actually
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: allowing their indigenous thing to work. The way that it's
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: supposed to work. Interesting.
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the other thing. Carnivores are very intent
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: the ones that I've interacted with, and I've you know,
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: I've tried that and I'm you know, I think I'm
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: more of a ketogenic type, not straight carnivore. I do
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: because I think my motivation is I want to optimize
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: my body, right, I want to work out every day.
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: I have to have some fuel, but I don't want
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: to I don't need six percent body fat right from
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: what I do. So, but I think what's happening is
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: they're they're typically doing an eighteen hour fast, so it's
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: completely resetting their metabolism. These people typically only eat one
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: meal a day or between twelve and six and six
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: hour period and it's that high protein, good fat, no
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: carb intermittent fasting that I think it's fueling that that
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: beneficial in cardioprotective phenotype.
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, very interesting. Let's not I talk about optimizing this,
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: let's talk about whole foods versus supplements. So you know,
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: obviously anything that any molecule that is being discovered to
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: be advantageous, somebody is producing supplements on it. And what's
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: your take on the best way to get exogenous nitrate
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: into the body.
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: Well, it's a difficult ques. I mean, we asked that
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: question over ten years ago because the question was how
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: much celery, broccoli, led us, spinach or beach do I
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: need to eat to get enough nitrate to fuel adequate
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: nitroc oxide production. And so we published this in twenty fifteen.
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: We went to five cities in the US. We went
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: to New York, we went to La Chicago, Dallas, Texas,
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: and then Raleigh, North Carolina, and we brought the same
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: vegetable from the same retail grocer back to my lab
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: and we just analyzed it for the amount of nitrate
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: found in that vegetable. And what we found was that
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: the nitrate found in cellering in Dallas was forty times
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: more than the cellery bought it the same grocer in
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: New York.
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: So there's regional differences in the same vegetable depending upon
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: farming practices, sole conditioned lightning storms which fixes nitrogen in
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: the form of nitrate in the soil, And there's difference
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: across vegetable categories. And now we're finding the time of
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: harvest is a fact, yes, and the amount of sunlight
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: is a variable. And then organic versus conventionally grown is
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: a variable because organic In that same paper we published
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: organically grown vegetables have about five to ten times less
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: nitrate than conventionally grown.
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: Wow, Because in.
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: The US to get an organic label, you can't add
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: nitrogen to the soil. Without nitrogen, there's less night trade.
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: So it's almost look, it's almost impossible. Yes, No, it
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: is impossible to know if you're getting enough unless you
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: have analytical equipment like I get where I CAD measured,
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: or I actually, you know, grow my own vegetables.
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: And that's my next question about growing your own vegetables
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: and what you should actually do, what you should be
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: adding to the soil.
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: Well, you can. Number one, you take a soul sample.
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: In the in the US, there's a US Department of
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: Agriculture regional office in most counties. So every couple of years,
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: I take a soul sample different regions of my pastors.
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: I got about eight hundred acres in Texas, So I
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: take soul samples and I take it there in tell
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: me what's what's in it, but they also tell me
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: what's missing. And then especially in the areas where I
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: grow my garden and plant my garden, and grow my vegetables.
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: I add back what's missing, and it includes fertilizer, nitrogen
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: based fertilizers. But so the food that I grow and
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: eat is nutrient dense, but it wouldn't be considered organic.
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: I don't put herbicides, I don't put pesticides on it.
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: But because I'm adding nitrogen based fertilizers to the soul
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: as long as potash and phosphorus and sulfur, it wouldn't
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: be considered organic. But I can tell you it's the
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: most nutrient dense food there is. We test it and
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: it's free of herbicides and pesticides. So you know, I'm
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: afforded that freedom and kind of flexibility where people who
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: live in big cities, I always tell them go to
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: the farmers market and ask your farmers how they grow it.
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: And you know, consumer demand changes practices and just say
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: I want I want nutrient dense food, but I don't
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: want herbis sites are pesticides. Yeah, most of the local
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: growers subscribe to that.
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: Wow, fascinating stuff. And let's jump back, because I think
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: we went to it and then I distracted you and
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: oral care practices. Oh yes, so, and should we be
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: using mouthwashes. Should we be cleaning our tongue? And you
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: know what dental hygiene things are going to impact nactec
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: oxide production, both good and bad.
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: Well, anything that's labeled antiseptic should be avoided. So that
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: includes fluorid, fluoride and toothpaste, right. You know in the US,
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: I don't know about Australia, but in the US, seventy
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: three percent of the municipalities in the US put fluoride
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: in the in the in the water supply.
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And I know there's lots of controversy about
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: that right now and some are starting to take it out.
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: Well, look, it should be taken out because the National
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: Toxicology Program published a multi year study last year showing
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: that flora and drinking water can lower IQ in kids
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: by as much as seven points. So, yes, why do
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: they put fluoride in the drinking water Because it kills
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: the bacteria in the pipes. So the water you're drinking
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: doesn't have any bacteria, but that same florida is gonna
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: kill the bacteria in your pipes. You bathe in it,
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: it's gonna kill all the bacteria on your skin, You're
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: gonna get acne, You're gonna get exema, roseationa dermatitis. It's dangerous,
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: it provides no benefit, so take it out. And you
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: know fluoride is in most toothpaste, Yes, if you read
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: the back of your toothpaste, and I encourage anybody to
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: do this, if you're taking a fluorid toothpaste, at least
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: in the US, it will say only use a p
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: size amount of this toothpaste on your toothbrush because anything
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: more than that is gonna cause toxicity from fluoride. And
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: if you swallow this, call poison control and it's got
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: poison controlled number only if you swallow this. Here's the
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: thing that they don't understand because they're not chemist or biochemist.
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: Can wait, a fluorid is twenty seven. You do not
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: have to swallow a fluorid for it to be toxic.
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: It's a small molecule and it's absorbed right across your
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: mucous membranes. So you have to get rid of fluoride
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: in your toothpaste, in your water because it's antiseptic.
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: Wow. And so I use baking so the toothpaste and
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: which doesn't have fluorid, and so anybody can can can
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: buy that. So so number one, get rid of fluoride
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: in your toothpaste and install some sort of water filtration system. Yeah,
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: which I have as well, to take that out, and
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: then you know, you can have other steps in the
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: water filtration that add other things in. Okay, So that's
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: that's toothpaste and water. What else. Obviously, mouthwash is a
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: bit of a no. No, I'm guessing then.
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: Now, Look, you can, you can. I don't watch a
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: lot of TV, but when I do, I see these
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: these commercials for these antiseptic mouth wash and they're advertising
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: this kills ninety nine point nine to nine percent of
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: the bacteria in your mouth, and they're proud of it.
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: They're proud of it, and they're advertising it for killing you.
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: It makes it, you know, it's it would be funny
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: if it wasn't such a burden on the healthcare system.
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: And people think this is a good idea. I mean nobody,
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: nobody today would think it's a good idea to take
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: an antibiotic every day for the rest of your life.
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: Yes, that's right, exactly. This will killed ninety nine percent
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: of your bike biome crack on.
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and we and others have published when you do this,
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: your blood pressure goes up. Why does your blood pressure
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: goes up Because it's killing the nitric oxect producing you
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: lose the protective benefits of exercise. I mean again, the
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: worst things I could think of would it's the pres
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: stomach acid production and use mouthwash and put florid. And
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: yet two out of three Americans wake up every day
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: and use mouth wash sometimes two three times a day.
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: Two out of three Americans have an unsafe elevation in
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: blood pressure. This is not coincidental. You have to stop wow.
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: And so do you think that if people stop using
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: mouthwash and stop using fluoride to his pace and stop
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: drinking fluoride, that we would see a significant impact, positive
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: impact on both blood pressure and then to buy extension,
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: cardiovascular disease and even neurodegender diseases.
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: I don't think it. I know it because I've seen it.
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: You know. We published a paper in twenty nineteen showing
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: that if we take normal tensive patients healthy, We did
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: a full oral microp We did this in collaboration with
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: the dental school at the Texas Medical Center. Took young
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: dental students, dental hygienic students, did a full period exam
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: oral exam. We gave them mouthwashed twice a day for
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: seven days. After seven days, in some of these kids,
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: we saw an a twenty six millimeters of mercury increase
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: in their blood pressure. Get seven days of using mouthwash,
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: we made people clinically hypertensive. Like We didn't change their diet.
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: They were on no medication. The only thing we did
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: was kill their microbioden. Blood pressure went up. Later, four
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: days later we stop the mouthwashed. Within four days, their
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: blood pressure comes down. Their microbiome had completely repopulated. We
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: do tongue scrapings and quantify and culture the bacteria. So
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: we see this. This isn't association. This is now we
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: established causation. You eradicate the bacteria, you decrease nitric oxide production,
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: blood pressure goes up. Hypertension is the number one driver
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: of the number one killer of the Yeah.
• 51:30
  Speaker 4: Absolutely, if you think about the public health effects of that,
• 51:34
  Speaker 4: get rid of fluoride, stop using mouthwash, restore your nitroc
• 51:37
  Speaker 4: oxide production, blood pressure comes down, The incidents and impact
• 51:42
  Speaker 4: on cardiovaster disease will go away.
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: And that's what we're seeing. It explains resistant hypertension.
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: You need Sorry, did you publish that paper, that intervention.
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: Why was this not front page news all around the
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: freaking worded.
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: You know, we got a little bit of pressed. I
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: was on the Doctor show here in the US, and
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: you know, a couple of news segments picked it up.
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: But no, it wasn't. I mean, it kind of fizzle.
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: But you know, this is disruptive. Think about if what
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: we say is true, and it absolutely is because it's
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: been reproduced by many other labs. We have to change
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: the way we're doing things. Dental medicine has to change.
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: We got to stop the fluoride rentism and go for
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: our annual checkups. These companies have to get rid of
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: fluoride from their toothpaste. It provides no benefit and it's
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: all risk. And antiseptic mouthwashes have to be taken off
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: the market. I mean, I say that, but there has
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: to be more judicious use of this because in people
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: with oral pathogens that lead to systemic inflammation and translocation,
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: increaphysical heart attack and stroke, and you know, valular problems
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: and myocarditis and things like that, there has to be
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: judicious use of antiseptics and antibiotics in the patients. But
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: it's not something you should do prophylactically everybody for no
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: reason whatsoever.
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, gotcha? Okay, And what about tongue scraping?
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: Should people?
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: Should people do that or not? No?
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: Interestingly, in that same paper, you know, we provide diaries
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: for these kids, and interestingly, some of these dental students
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: maybe twenty thirty I think go back can read the paper.
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: We're doing tongue scrapings, and what we found was the
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: people who were tongue scraping tongue scraping alone had better
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: blood pressure management, and they had a greater diversity of
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: the oral microbiome that we could culture from tongue scrapings.
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: But if you tongue scrape the people who did the
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: tongue scraping and then were given the aniseptic had the
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: highest increase in pressure. So tongue scraping alone is good.
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: Tongue scraping with use of aniseptic is it exacerbates the damage?
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, as many things in signs, and the answer should
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: start with it depends.
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: Pins There is no one size fits all, no matter
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: how hard we try.
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: So what do you think are Let's talk about habits
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: then that people can do. I think anybody listening to
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: this is nigh on the nitric oxide tree, and we'll
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: talk about your book, because obviously they should be behind
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: your book. But give us the lifestyle practices that you recommend,
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: all that you do right in order to optimize your
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: nitric oxide I'm always interested in talking to people who
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: are experts in a particular way and say, what do
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: you do about this in terms of your life style.
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm the inequal one guinea pig for the past
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: twenty five years, so yeah, I've worked through a lot
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: of this to figure out what works for me. But
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: I think these are I think for the most part,
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: these are generally accepted principles. But number one, I do
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: an eighteen hour fast every day. I typically eat my
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: last meal at six pm, and I don't eat until noon.
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: The next thing, I don't eat breakfast. I drink two
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: cups of coffe with just a tad bit of honey
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: in a local honey that helps my allergies.
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: Can I ask, is that purely for the metabolic effects
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: and the metabolic flexibility of fasting and all the benefits
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: of fasting, or is that also to stimulate nitric oxide
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: production in some mechanism.
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: I don't have any evidence that it's affecting nitric oxide
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: production per se. But if you look at the science
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: and the longevity genes that are turned on by chloric restriction,
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: intermittent fasting and mitochondri biogenesis and improving your metabolic flexibility,
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: and I just know, for me, it just made me
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: feel better. You know, the hunger pan I don't get hungry,
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: the hunger, and then my belly fat just I mean,
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: it was like it melted off, and that's the most stubborn,
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: difficult fat to get rid of. And just the intermittent
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: fasting and then watching what I eat. So typically I
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: eat a lot of protein. I raise my own beef,
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: I grow my own vegetables, and then I drink a
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: lot of good filtered water. And then I exercise every morning.
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: So every morning when I wake up, I spend the
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: first fifteen twenty minutes doing high intensity interval training. So
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: that gets my blood splow going, it gets my heart pumping.
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: I'm breathing, I'm focusing on nasal breathing and mouth breathing.
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: And then I go sit in an infrared SNA for
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: thirty minutes at one hundred and seventy degrees because that
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: infrared light is activating mitochondria, it's improving microcotside release.
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: Yes, can we can we do a little dive into
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: this because the world of photobiomodulation will absolutely spin people
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: out right. And the impact on the mitochondria through cytochrome
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: c oxides and other mechanisms, and even some of the
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: stuff that's coming out about neurodegenerative diseases and how they're
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: reacting to near infrared light and the quantum effects of
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: light will just fucking spin people. I put it so quick,
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: could do another whole podcast of this, but maybe just
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: give us the five minute view on light and particularly
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: red and near infrared and the impacts on our body
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: in a mitochondria and nitric oxide production.
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: Well, I'll take you back to nineteen fifty seven and
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: Bob Firschcott, who was won the Nobel Pride for discovery nitrocoxide,
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: introduced this concept of photo relaxation. So he could take
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: isolated blood vessels and shine certain wavelengths of light and
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: you could see this transient relaxation. And then if he
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: preloaded those with nitrocoxide and then shine that same light
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: wavelength of light, you could potentiate the vaso dilatory responses
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: We published on this in two thousand and two, over
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: almost twenty five years ago, that these photo labile stores
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: of nitrocoxide can be modulated. So once nyitrocoxide's produced, they
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: can be stored and then activated upon by light and
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: then released to initiate vaso relaxation. And that's why sunlight,
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: you know, the entire visible spectrum of sun and why
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: sunlight twenty thirty minutes direct sunlight a day is important
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: because it's releasing these nitrocoxide stores and lowering blood pressure.
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: And if you look epidemiologically, people live in Scandinavian the
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: Arctic have lower bod or higher blood pressures than people
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: live at the equator.
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: And no than Northern Island where I'm from, than the creature.
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah you got cloudy, rainy days, you're right. But now
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: that the infrared, the full infrared spectrum is part of
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: what this is. And you know the mitochondria are like chloroplast, right,
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: they're chromophores, and so this light is initiating biochemistry and
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: it's as you call it, photo biomodulation. So when you
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: have adequate nitrocoxiding to go to an infrared sonam it's
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: not just part of detoxification, but it's improving blood flow
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: and you know, detoxing and mobilizing these toxins, but that
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: light energy is improving mitochondri function, is releasing nitrocoxide gas.
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really interesting because there's a massive debate in
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: the whole sauna world about traditional versus infrared saunas, right,
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: and most of them will will quite rightly say, you know,
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: the diehards will go most of the research around the
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: benefits are from a traditional sauna. Now I have an
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: infrared sauna and I himmed and had over which one
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: to actually get, but I and I ended up going
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: for the infrared and just and I think the reason
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: why people are so pro the traditional it's just that
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: there's decades more research on that type of sauna. And
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: you know, the hardcore ones are going, well, it is
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: about the activation of heat shock proteins. And you have
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: to raise your core body temperature by one degree, I
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: tell you, and my infrared sauna, I and it only
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: goes up to seventy This is centigrade. I can't remember
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: what that is fahrenheit, but it's below significantly below. But
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: I sweat way more in an infrared so on that
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: than I do in a traditional sauna, and I think
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: there's going to be more and more research coming out
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: about the independent benefits of the infrared sona.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: Well, I think it's I think so, I mean, it's
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: what we call biostacking. Right, So traditional sna' is just
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: gonna heat you up, yes, right, and you're breathing in
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: that air, and most pathogens, whether the viral bacteria, can't
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: survive that high heat. So it's it's helping your immune function.
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: It's helping and you know, induction heat chop proteins and
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: things like that. When you combine the heat with the
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: infrared light, it's kind of it's biostacking. You're getting an
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: additional benefit from them. And then what I do is
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: I put an ozone generator in my sauna. So now
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 2: I'm creating ozone superoxygenating my blood and it's helping with
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: any you know, bacteria problem or dys biosis. And you know,
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: I breathe it in. It's not it's a very low dose.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: And then after that, I mean that it's one hundred
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: and seventy degrees fahrenheit, which I think is a little
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: bit more than seven degrees centigrade and then I go
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: from one hundred and seventy degrees to a thirty seven
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: degree ice bath, and then I do yeah, yeah, and
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: a half minutes or try to get three minutes. But
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: it's so painful.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that. Yeah, that's hard. And look, I think
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: a lot of those benefits. I interviewed Professor Mike Tipton
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: on my podcast. He's done a lot of the actual
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: studies on coldwater therapy, and he said that the majority
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: of the benefits we actually get in the first ten
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: or fifteen seconds, and even below around ten degrees centigrade water,
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: which I think is about fifty ish, he said, is
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: enough to trigger. So I don't think we need to
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: go as hardcore in the cold as we used to
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: think that we did. But it is, it's beneficial, and
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: anybody does it feels prigging amazing.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: Now, Look I hate it. I do it every morning
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: and I absolutely hate it. You know, it's just it's
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: two and a half minutes. But for me, it's a
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: mental preparation and it prepares me. You know, life is hard.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: You have to mentally prepare ourselves for the tough times
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 2: in life. So for me, it's that mental exercise where
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: I'm preparing myself. I'm coming into my breath and I
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: just do it. You just you do it. It's like
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: the Nike commercial, Just do it.
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was get in there.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: And suck it up. You come into your breath, and
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: then once the shivering stops, you know, five minutes after him,
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: you feel amazing that. What I've noticed is again it's
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: it's helping that that white inflammatory fat turn into brown fat,
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: which is thermogenic, and then you lose the fat, especially
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: the visceral fat, and it's amazing transformation. So that's my morning.
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 2: That's one hour. If I waited till I had time
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: to do it, I would never do it. So what
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 2: I do. I wake up an hour earlier than I
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: typically did, and that's the first hour of the day.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: It's focused on me physical health, it's my spiritual health.
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: I'm I'm praying, I'm meditating, I'm reading scripture, and I'm
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 2: I'm getting my motive. How do I start the day?
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: How do I execute my plan? And how do I
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 2: outwork everybody on the planet.
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you are starting your day with a very
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: good dose of hormetic stressors. And I'll tell you I
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: can see as you said, you know, it's mental prep
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: and and and it's hard and you've got to do
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: hard stuff. I know about half of my listeners are going,
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: oh fuck, don't start Paul on what we have to
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: do hard stuff, because he's got to go on for
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: about three rds.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: I will not looking for the easy life. This is
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 2: living on this planet. Isn't for you.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: No, that's right, that's right exactly. But I think to
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: your point that that you know, doing the hard stuff
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: in the morning, whether it's you're turning your lovely warm
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: short of cold, or you're getting in this song and
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: you're getting in an ice bath, there's a huge psychological
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: benefit I think, as well as the physiological benefit from
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: the hormetic stressors that that I don't think can be overstated.
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: Are really doing.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: Now for me. I'm addicted to it now. I mean
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: I have to. If I don't do it, it's I
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 2: have a guilt number one and number two, I just
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 2: don't feel as good. So I wake up every morning
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 2: and actually look forward to that routine. I don't look
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: forward to the code plunge that that whole routine I
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: look forward to, but it forces me to do it.
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: Because the way that I feel since doing that over
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: the past probably maybe a year, year and a half. Yeah,
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: I mean I don't I don't want to go back
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: to before that. So I continue to do it every morning,
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: whether I want to or not. But now I want to.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: It's a habit.
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they appreciate the pudding. And given that I've got you,
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: I want to ask your opinion on other stuff because
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: you you clearly know physiology very deeply. What you're thinking
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: on some of the other longevity bio hacks out there, right,
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: So particularly let's talk about a few compounds, So ANIMN
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: and an R have you have you formulated any thoughts
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: those at the minute?
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 2: You know what I do. I mean, I certainly understand
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: NAD and nadph and all these these are essentral cofactors.
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 2: And you know a degree in biochemistry and a PhD
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: molector and sound physiology. Certainly these are important cofactors in
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: biochemical reactions. But again, just like in most physiological mailochemical systems,
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: they'll recycle. So what do you take what's in the blood,
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 2: does it actually get into the cell? And is it biology?
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: Does effect? And these more better? Right?
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: And unless you have some you know genetic deficiency or polymorphism.
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: You know that your body can't produce it, and taking
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: its supplemental may provide benefit. You know, I can tell
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: you when things like this come out. I try them,
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: and I'm pretty in tune with my body. So I've
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 2: taken NAD, I've done iv NA D. I take in
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: and in as a daily supplement. Do I notice any different?
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 2: Probably not. Do I think it's you know, I take
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 2: it because a lot of these companies give it to
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: me free. If I had to buy it when I
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: take it, maybe I don't know. One am I have
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 2: with biohacking is you've got these biohackers have millions of followers,
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: influencing millions of people who have no pedigree, no education,
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: no degree. They're not scientists, they're not doctors. They're making
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 2: recommendations and influencing millions of people, and many times it's
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: not based on valid science.
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and they're getting pedi chetoad of money to produce them. Right.
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: This is the thing that I'm sitting on the fence
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: on the on the NAD stuff because I looked at
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: that I did ticket earlier, and I thought, Jesus, this
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: shit's expensive, and I don't actually know what it's doing.
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: And the studies, you know, the studies currently are mostly
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: animal biists and there are some human ones, but they
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: are industry sponsored, which always gives me into of skepticism.
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: But having said that, you know, there is a a
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: row of any obviously in the body, and it does
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: decline with you. So it's it's interesting, but for me,
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to spend my heart or in cash
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: on it until I start to see more bigger human studies.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: Like if you look at nitric oxide and the research
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: around that, the NAD stuff, it's nowhere near that ship.
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: And as I always say, a lot of these people
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: are taking frigging NAD, N and N and they're taking
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: this supplement and that supplement this, and they're not frigging exercising,
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: and they're not going in a in a cold plunt
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: and they're not they're not using a sauna. It's like,
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: you know, these are the really big things over here
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: that you're not doing, and you're you're you're wanting all
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: these little tiny things to make up for it. It's like,
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: so for me, these are potential add ons when you
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: get that foundations right.
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: Well, I look at the people and the health and
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 2: the body composition of the people selling this, and if
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 2: they're not healthy, if they're overweight and not in good health,
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 2: what do I want to emulate what you're doing physition? Yeah,
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: that's right, But here's the solution. Chronic disease is caused
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 2: by two things, and two things only. Your body is
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 2: missing something that it needs, or it's exposed to a
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 2: toxin that it doesn't need. And if we eat whole foods,
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: nutrient dense food and we support healthy digestion and nutrient
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 2: uptake and assimilation, and we remove from the body toxins, medications, antiseptics,
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 2: bacterial infections, maybe oral infections, latent viral infections. The body
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 2: is regenerative by nature. You give the body what it needs,
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 2: the body heels itself. And so that's the answer. You know,
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 2: I'm a big proponent of micronutrient analysis to see what's
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 2: in your diet that's not providing the basic optimal levels
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 2: of a nutrient and then you can supplement that. Then
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 2: that makes sense, but it's targeted personalized nutrition. But you know,
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 2: these people are taking one hundred and fifty pills a day.
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 2: I mean, I could think of better things to do
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 2: with that money and better practices to you know, optimize
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 2: the human body, eat good whole foods and exercise minutes
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 2: and brick sunlighted in.
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: Out reigious claims that you're making to do the ship right,
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: because I mean, I think the other thing is that
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: when people are spending so much money in all these
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: different supplements, they don't know how they interact with each other.
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: They don't know the right timing. You know, as you
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: said earlier on I remember you talked about the harvest
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: at the time of the harvest. I've seen research that
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 1: the time of the harvest massively influences the activity of
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: a particular supplement. Right, So we just and there's all
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: sorts of companies grandfathering off research of other companies that
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: are producing a really good molecule and then they're doing
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: a shitty cheap version of it that people are taking
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: and just not knowing whether this is actually having an
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: effect and how it's interact Well.
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 2: The other problem is a study published I think last
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 2: year maybe early this year, a third party company went
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 2: in and bought supplements off the shelf that supplements stores
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 2: and you know, pharmacies analyze it in seventy something percent
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 2: of the products they tested didn't even have what was
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 2: on the label.
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: Fucking yeah, it's crazy.
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 2: I mean it's the wild wild West. And then you
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 2: know it's even worse than the nitrocoxide field. And going
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: back to when we opened this up, you know beats
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 2: ninety nine percent of the beat products on the market
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 2: provides zero nitric oxide benefit.
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: Is that right?
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 4: That's right.
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 2: I've tested all these In fact, we use them as
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 2: placebos and our randomized placebo control clinical trials. All they
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 2: do is turn your pee and your poop pink. There
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 2: is no nitrocoxide benefit to them. Because again, think about
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 2: and most of these companies buying the cheapest beat powder
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 2: out there to put in a castle. And I'm gonna
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 2: take it through the math. The highest concentration of beats
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 2: that's on the market that you can actually get from
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 2: the field is about six to nine percent nitree. So
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: if you've got say one gram of beat powder, then
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 2: only about six to nine percent is going to be nitrite.
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 2: You need three hundred to four hundred milligrams of nitrate,
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 2: so that means you would need five to six grams
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 2: of that highly concentrated beat powder to get sufficient amounts
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 2: of nitrate to fuel microcoxite. A capsule is seven hundred milligrams,
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 2: and they're saying, oh, take one or two capsules of
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 2: this beet powder.
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: The math work, Yeah and two.
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 2: Most of these beat powders don't even contain any nitrate
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 2: because when they take the high bricks concentrate that comes
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 2: from the manufacturer, then they make it into a powder.
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 2: It's a high heat, high pressure system. These are water
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 2: soluble nutrients that come out. There's nothing left in the powder.
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 2: It's just beat fiber with a lot of oxillates that
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 2: cause kidney stones.
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: It's just expansive pests. Basically beat this at that. It's
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: pretty expensive fists.
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 2: I guess.
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: So, Nathan, what are you excited about for the next
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: sort of ten or twenty years in this space and
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 1: in the general bio hiking space.
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 2: Well, look, I've been in academ I spent twenty five
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 2: years in academ and it wasn't my objective to develop
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 2: dietary supplements. My objective was to understand the mechanism of
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 2: disease to the extent that we could develop drug therapy
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 2: and actually show safe and effective nitrocoxide product technology. Obviously,
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 2: we make dietary supplements. We've been very successful. We make
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 2: topical nitrocoxide products for skin care and beauty. But what
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 2: still gets me up in the morning is our drug
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 2: discovery program. We've got drugs we're about to put through
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 2: the FDA for a schemic card disease. These are vasodilators.
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 2: They dilate the cornery artis and patients with the schemic
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 2: card disease. We're going to start that clinical trial probably
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 2: early next year. We've got a drug where we're making
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 2: for Alzheimer's. I think nitrocoxide drug therapy will completely eradicate
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 2: Alzheimer's because it addresses the vascular and metabolic root cause
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 2: of dimension Alzheimer's. As as I mentioned, it's a vasodilator.
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 2: It's going to improve oxygenation of the blood. It's gonna
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 2: get insulin into the brain. Alzheimer's is what we call
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 2: diabetes type three. Yes in resistance.
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 2: If we give nitrocoxide, we dilate the blood vessels, we
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 2: perfuse the brain, We improve insulin sensitivity. When you don't
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 2: do When you do that, you don't get misfolding of
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 2: proteins and there's no tall tangles, there's no amloid plaque
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 2: and people maintain memory and cognition. It's root cause medicine,
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 2: and then we have a topical drug for diabetic ulcers
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 2: and non healing wounds. You know, sixty five thousand Americans
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 2: die in nursing homes every year from wounds that get
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 2: infected and divecepsis not to mention the number of diabetic
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 2: wounds and diabetic foot ulcers and non healing wounds. I mean,
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 2: nitrocoxide gets blood float to the wound, it kills the
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 2: infection that's in the wound, and the wound heals itself.
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 2: We've not seen a wound that our nitrocoxide hasn't been
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 2: able to heal.
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 1: I'm going to buy it's the nitchek oxide on the wound.
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: What about red light, because I know red light is
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: good for wound healing, it's good for burns. Would that
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: potentiate the nitchic oxide or have a synergistic effect? It would?
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 2: In fact, you know, I came up with this concept
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 2: from treating my dad. My dad's a peer pelegic from
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 2: a car accident he had nineteen eighty four. Dad's seventy
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 2: six years old today. But he's been rolling around in
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 2: a wheelchair for forty something years. But you know, developed
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 2: pressure ulcers to keep the sorcers. In twenty fourteen, he
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 2: had a non healing osteolocrotic osteomylitis stage four wound that
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 2: wouldn't heal and he almost died from it, got infected
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 2: and became sipted.
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 2: So the other wound care docs told me we would
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 2: never heal this wound on a sixty five year old
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 2: peer polegic diabetic patient, and I just refused to accept that.
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 2: So that's when I started looking into developing a topical
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 2: nitric oxide that I could put into the wound bed
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 2: and I could see tissue growth, I could see the
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 2: tissue granulation. I could see that kind of gray, kind
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 2: of discolored wound bed turned bright pink. But just to
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 2: your question, I actually used red light on it too.
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 2: So I put the nitric oxide wound dressing in there,
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 2: and then I would shine red light on it. And
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 2: I did also did ozone to kind of killed the infection.
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 2: But I did a number of things. But you know,
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 2: we healed that four year old, non healing wound in
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 2: eight months. Wow.
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: Wow, that's pretty amazing. Just while I have you one
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 1: last question, and just because you mentioned Alzheimer's disease and
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: I'm totally on board with the whole nitric oxide. What's
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: your take on the recent study about lithium or a
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: tate and Ali you have you seen that study and
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 1: do you have any thoughts on it?
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 2: I think lithium is one of Look, it's an element.
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 2: It's number seven on the periodic table. Was the original
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 2: development of seven up? You know seven up was rich.
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 2: That's really but no, I think it's a it's a
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 2: nutrient or mineral that's missing in some people. Mechanistically, I'm
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 2: not sure how it's affecting Alzheimer's and neurotransmission, but you know,
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 2: the data or the data and it seemed to get better.
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 2: You know. I started experimenting myself with taking low dose lithium,
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 2: and so I take about twenty five milligrams of lithium
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 2: ortate a day. When I first started, probably six or
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 2: eight months ago, I took it in the afternoon. I mean,
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 2: my brain was firing and I had trouble sleeping, and
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 2: then I took it that morning when I woke up.
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 2: And you know, it's just part of my daily regiment
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 2: now because I felt the difference of that and things
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 2: that I feel the difference when I'm in tune with
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 2: what I'm doing. So you know, I actually give it
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 2: to my dad who has kind of Parkinsonium type tremors,
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 2: not Parkinson's disease, but it's helped him. It's helped is cognition.
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 2: So I've seen I've seen it, waitness it personally end
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 2: with my family.
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Interesting, do you take creating just start of interest?
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 2: I do take creating before my workouts in the morning. Yeah,
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 2: just started that probably maybe three or four months ago,
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 2: because again, the data coming out on creating to mention Alzheimer's,
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 2: the science, Yeah, and mood.
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, geez, we've known for decades about
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 1: its benefits in terms of exercise, but I guess it's
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: one of those things that when I saw the impact
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 1: on brain health and on mood, and you kind of go, actually,
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: when you think about the biochemistry, it freaking makes sense,
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 1: doesn't it? ATPPC right, and it's deep and effective. This
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 1: has been bloody awesome. I've thoroughly enjoyed this, and I'm
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 1: sure my listeners will all have enjoyed it. And now work.
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 1: Can they go to find out more about your work
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: and tell us about your book and tell us about
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: and you know what made you want to write the
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: book and where can they get it? Just give us
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 1: a bit of an overview of the book and all
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: the stuff that you do.
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, I give thirty or forty lectures a
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 2: year all around the world, and you know the audience
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 2: is typically mesmerized and really excited about the future of nitrocoxide.
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 2: And you know these are typically physicians, and you know,
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 2: consumers need to know about this. So my motivation for
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 2: writing the book was to tell the entire story of nitrocoxide,
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 2: how discovered, what led to a Nobel prize, and what
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 2: it does in the body way everybody should be concerned
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 2: about it. But I also integrate in that book my
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 2: own personal journey of discovery, kind of my background, my education,
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 2: and how we were able to see what everyone else
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 2: has seen, but to think what no one else has thought.
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 2: So the book is really it's a must read. Obviously
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 2: have a very strong personal bias, but it's It's nathan'sbook.
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 2: Dot com and get an Amazon, Barnes, Noble, wherever books
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 2: are sold. I must read the Secret of Nitrocoxide, Bring
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 2: the Science to Life. I have a copy here that
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 2: we just this is in portug translated. That's the only
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 2: version I have with me, but it's called the Secret
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 2: of nitric Oxide Bring the Science to Life. I've got
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 2: a YouTube channel providing education, real science, real information, real
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 2: knowledge on nitrocoxide to kind of, you know, filter through
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 2: the misinformation all the myths out there. That's doctor Nathan
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 2: s Brian Nitrocoxide. I'm on Instagram, doctor Nathan s Brian,
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 2: LinkedIn Twitter, doctor Nittrick. See I'm searchable my most search engines.
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 1: Wow, you certainly are. And so Nathan, look, this has
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 1: been bloody awesome. I will certainly be diving into the
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 1: book and and going onto your YouTube channel because, like
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 1: you said earlier, there's so many influencers out there that
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: have got no frigging background in terms of the education
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 1: and what they're talking about. But but but you, with
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 1: your deep research in physiology and biochemistry, I think, really
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 1: understand the body and are and can communicate it very well,
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 1: which is a rare skill. So thank you for everything
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 1: you do and and keep on being a trail blazer
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: and an explorer and seeing what everybody else is seeing
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 1: but thinking differently. That's fregaging awesome.
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 2: Thank you very much, Thank you, With you,