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Nostalgia: 10 Ways to Ruin Your Sleep · Why We Do What We Do

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: You're listening to why we do what we do. Welcome
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: to why we do what we do.
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: I am your trying to remember what sleep feels like, Host.
• 0:23
  Speaker 3: And I'm your I haven't slept in twenty years since
• 0:25
  Speaker 3: my kids were born, Host Shane.
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: We are a psychology podcast. We talk about the things
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: that humans and non human animals do, and every once
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: in a while, we re release a previous episode that
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: we recorded that was at least five years ago or
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: right around that amount of time. Then we add some
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: updated research and information and reflections on that episode to
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: just feel like we're, you know, staying on top of
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: the things as they happen in the world.
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because we like to continue to reresearch and whatnot.
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: So today we are going to revisit an episode we
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: did on sleep and different ways that you can actively
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: and I don't mean if you wanted to intentionally ruin
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: your sleep.
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, So very very nice. Welcome if you
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: I hope they enjoy what you hearing this one today.
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: If you're someone who is here for the first time,
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: then you get to hear both the old episode and
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: the new content we're putting on top of that. And
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: I hope that that works for you. And if you're
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: a return person, then welcome back. We are glad that
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: you are here. And either way, it is March eleventh,
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: and as we know, we all celebrate as a nation
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: three eleven day.
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  Speaker 3: Don't know what to do during man, I can't help
• 1:35
  Speaker 3: but love old three eleven.
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, all right.
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: It's also Debunking Day, one of our favorite days.
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: That is that is great. It is dream Day. It
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: means the day is not real, it is just a day.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: It's just a dream.
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I love that. Also, how apropos for the episode today?
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: So true.
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: It's Johnny Appleseed Day.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: Is National Funeral Director and Mortician Recognition Day. That's fun title.
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: That is an industry that we should probably talk about
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: because funeral directing is its own thing. So fascinating.
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: Good point. Yeah.
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: It is National Immune System Day.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: Oh I like my immune system. I'd like to bolster
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: it with vaccines me too. Is National No Code Day.
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: Hmm. Interesting. It's National Sofrito Day, okay, which I made
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: a recipe today. I made mofongo today for the first
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: time ever, and I got to use sofrito as part
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: of the recipe and it was delicious.
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: Oh nice. It is Oatmeal Nut Waffles Day.
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: Sure. Yeah, It's washer nose Day.
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: Okay, It's a World Day of Muslim Culture, Peace, dialogue
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  Speaker 2: and film.
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: Nice love that. It's World Plumbing Day.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: Ooh, the magic Profession that good.
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: Yep.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: It is Girl Scout Week.
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: You better get them cookies. They have vegan options now,
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: which is nice.
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: Yay.
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: It is National art Vark Week, It.
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: Is National Bubblegum Week.
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: It certainly is. It's all the things.
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: It's all the things, all right. Well, that's the thing
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: that we say is we just recognize that it's a
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: day of the year, and there's so many celebrations that happen,
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: and so just in case you're one of the people
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: who celebrates those things, we wish you happy those things,
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: whatever they might be. And that's not the primary reason
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: we're here. So we're going to get to it, which
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: is that we had recorded this episode and it was
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: sort of a tongue in cheic style sort of episode
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: that originally published March seventeenth, twenty twenty one. And this
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: episode received pretty positive feedback and as we recall, was
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: a lot of fun to record. Yeah, at this point,
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: different from a lot of our previous nostalgias. We had
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: actually started doing recommendations when we originally recorded this, so
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: that's fun. You'll get to hear our original recommendations in
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: that episode as well as new recommendations at the end
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: of this episode. For all the recommendations, yeah, you get
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: all the things they've revisit and to enjoy.
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  Speaker 3: And if you already took those recommendations from before and
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: you apply them now, it's kind of like a little
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: taste of nostalgia too. You're like, oh, I get to
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: do it again.
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  Speaker 2: Sure. Yes.
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  Speaker 3: So the chemick of the original episode was to tell
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: you what to do if you want poor sleep, with
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: the implication that, as we explicitly state that you can
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: do the opposite of those things to get higher quality sleep.
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: And keeping with that spirit, we'll take a somewhat similar
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: approach to this re release, which is a lot of fun.
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: I mean, I always have fun recording. Yeah, but there's
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: some episodes where you go, Okay, that was actually a blast,
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: and we got some good laughs out of that.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a good time. And then after we play
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: the episode, the original episode in full, we will come
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: back with some new updates on some sleep research, how
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: to improve or destroy your sleep quality depending on what
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: your intention is. And yeah, so we cool do a
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: quick jump over to the original episode. I will state
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: here that if you would like to support us, you
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: can join us on Patreon, leave us a rating and
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: a review like subscribe, tell a friend those things, and
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: we appreciate all the help that you can get. I'll
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: mention more about those things at the end of this discussion.
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: But I think that we're ready to jump into this. Yeah, yeah,
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: let's do it, all right, Please enjoy this original episode
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: from five years ago. Toda, Welcome to Why We Do
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: what We do. I'm gonna be I don't know if
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: I said that right. I'm gonna be your slippy host Abraham.
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: Ooh, and I'm gonna be your recently awakened host Shane perfect.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: So where Psychology Podcast. We like to take interesting topics,
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: break them down into bite sized chunks that you can
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: understand and enjoy, and we can describe them through a
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: lens of science that is maybe different from how you
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: probably heard them on the cover of magazine, read them
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: on the cover of magazines, or heard them from other podcasts.
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: And we bring this skeptical lens that sort of thing.
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: And We're really excited about this topic today because this
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: is something that I would feel like maybe everybody deals
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: with on some level. I feel like as a parent,
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: I have had to struggle with this for several years
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: and still struggle with this idea. But yeah, I were
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: really excited to dig into this one.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: And we often do these sort of how to episodes
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  Speaker 2: and this is going to be one of those in
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  Speaker 2: sort of a tongue in cheek style, and so this
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: is ten ways to ruin your sleep, and this also
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: kind of then doubles as ten ways to fix it,
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: so we're gonna treat this as sort of a top
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: ten countdown sort of thing.
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's fair like kind of like our
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  Speaker 3: own version of BuzzFeed.
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: Sure, why not? I forget that you might do you
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: follow a BuzzFeed all? So I guess maybe that's if
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: you don't then not directly, it shows up on other
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: things that I like to read online, So that's fir.
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: I'm familiar. I'm perfectly familiar with it. And also, like
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: I do like top ten things, so like I'll watch
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: YouTube top tens and obviously BuzzFeed comes up on there.
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  Speaker 2: So yeah, I wrote this one in my sleep.
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  Speaker 3: I could see that.
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's just garbled mess.
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  Speaker 3: It's just you pounding on the keyboard and during one
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  Speaker 3: of your night terrors.
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: All right, let's talk about a San Diego, California high
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  Speaker 2: school student in the nineteen sixties named Randy Gardner. It's
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: nineteen sixty three, the fall semester, beginning of the school year.
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: Martin Luther King Junior has recently given his famous I
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: have a dream speech. Yep, probably many people have heard of.
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: Yep.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: Vietnam War is raging on. Everyone and their grandparents and
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: their pets are listening to.
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: The Beatles before they found acid.
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  Speaker 2: Sure, the average price of a house was just a
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: little over twelve thousand dollars, which is now the low
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: price of a car, and gas was only twenty two
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  Speaker 2: cents a gallon.
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  Speaker 3: And within that civil rights protests were held all over
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  Speaker 3: the country. So does any of that sound familiar? I
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: mean there's part of that that's still happening today. So
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: you know, I guess some things don't change.
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  Speaker 2: Sure, And in San Diego, some high school students were
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: tasked with coming up with a science fair project.
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  Speaker 3: All right, So for this next segment, Abraham is going
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: to be Randy, and I'm going to be somebody named
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: Bruce McAllister.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, Randy Gardner, Bruce McAllister, all right, so I'll start
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  Speaker 2: ready do this. Okay, Let's see if we can gain
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  Speaker 2: paranormal abilities by staying awake for a really long time.
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  Speaker 2: Like what, I don't know.
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  Speaker 3: How can we prove do we have these abilities? How
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  Speaker 3: long do we have to stay awake?
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  Speaker 2: Never mind, let's see what happens when you stay awake
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  Speaker 2: for a really long time. How long the world record
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  Speaker 2: is eleven days? I think? Want to try and beat that?
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  Speaker 3: No, not really, do you?
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  Speaker 2: All right, let's flip a coin for it and see.
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  Speaker 3: So I tried to channel my California surfer during that time.
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  Speaker 3: If you hadn't picked that up, that was as close
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  Speaker 3: as I could get to Spiccoli as I could.
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  Speaker 2: That was great. I definitely picked it up. That was
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: a great So Randy lost the coin toss or one,
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  Speaker 2: I guess, depending on how you look at it. Randy
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  Speaker 2: is going to be our hero here for staying awake
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: this experiment that they're going to do for a little
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  Speaker 2: over eleven days, which is a long time.
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  Speaker 3: I have stayed up for a couple of days at
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  Speaker 3: a time and I don't understand how any but hey
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  Speaker 3: does it. It is the worst. It is not fun.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, two days is more than enough and
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  Speaker 2: eleven sounds absurd.
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  Speaker 3: But let's talk about this. So to give a little
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  Speaker 3: bit background, one of the things we have to talk
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: about is this idea of sleep hygiene, and sleep hygiene
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: is the sleep context that produces ideal sleep. So this
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: could be a glass of scotch and a warm bed partner.
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: This could be a good set of blankets, it could
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  Speaker 3: be any number of things. They're going to produce a
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  Speaker 3: good night's sleep.
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  Speaker 2: And the antithesis of that is a can of monster
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: energy drink your parents' basement and a pile of dirty
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: laundry as your warm bed partner. Just kidding. Context here
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: means the environment and behaviors before and during sleep, So
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: the sounds, the betting, whatever you're sleeping on, temperature, lights,
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: et cetera. But also the routines around sleep, so food
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: and drink, you're waking, schedule, substances that might be in
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: your system, that sort of thing.
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and so sleep hygiene is really important because sleep
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: is important, right, and you're going to find out just
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: how important sleep is as we go through this topic,
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: so just a heads up, it might be a little
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: bit eye opening, which is funny for sleep. I guess
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: so our brain, heart, and blood vessels are repaired during sleep,
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: and when we're deprived of sleep, people are more likely
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: to gain weight, experience heart and kidney disease, be foggy,
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: and have trouble concentrating, and are more likely to step
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: from a stroke, are more likely to develop type two diabetes,
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: have weeken immune systems, are more likely to experience depression,
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: experience inflammation, and struggle with quality social interactions. So like
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: a lot of things.
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that things like the list of things that you
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: don't want to have happen, like any of those. Yeah,
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: a global pandemic is also very conducive to all of
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: the things that you just listed. Ten out of ten
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: for staying awake, to binge, all of Shit's Creek, Queen's Gamma,
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: and twenty two seasons of SVU. I think they're on
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: to twenty three now, Yeah, they might be.
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: I have been catching up on Agents of Shield and
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: wrapping up that series because now that it's done, but
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: I'm still like, if there's so many episodes in a season.
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: I don't know how anybody does that. So for the
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: most part, you don't experience good sleep without good sleep hygiene.
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: So be prepared to be scolded by Abraham and myself
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: for the next forty five minutes. You're gonna feel real
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: bad about the way you sleep. And I want to
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: be careful to be clear that there are medical reasons
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: people have difficulty sleeping that are obviously not their fault.
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: So we're not gonna talk about We're not gonna blame
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: you or shame you for those things. They are also
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: the lucky few who have no difficulty sleeping, regardless of
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: their poor sleep hygiene. That would be me same. I
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: could sleep pretty much anywhere and everywhere, like I can
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: sounk out no matter where. I have no sense of danger.
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: Apparently I could sleep on a sidewalk and people would
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: be like, I could get robbed, and they'd be like,
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: that's fine, I'm tired.
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: I sleep next to a hungry alligator.
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there, pro it's really strange. I've been there, I've
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: seen it. It's for there to be an alligator where
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: you're at doesn't even fit the climate. Now, for the
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: rest of us, we need good sleep hygiene. So, fortunately
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: you have found your way to this episode, so we
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: can fix you. And before we go on, you're welcome.
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: Maybe sleep next to a rattlesnake. That's doubly difficult because
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: the rattle.
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I was gonna say, well, it's white noise.
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: That's true. That's they coax you asleep.
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: That's an evatta white noise machine.
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: Hit your snooze button while we play some ads. So
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: beyond a survey of what your actual nightly routine is
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: obtained by us peeking through your bedroom window every night, well,
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: and the data collected from the nanobots and all the
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: vaccines that you've received, here are a few signs that
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: you might have poor sleep hygiene. One, you're easily and
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: frequently aroused while sleeping. Try being aroused instead, far more enjoyable.
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: Yes, absolutely so. You might also have difficulty falling asleep,
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: Like stay away from the as of your bed for sure, Like,
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: we don't do that. We keep we keep our legs
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: inside the bed, right, we don't. I don't know about you,
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: but I can't if I fut dangles over the bed. No, thanks,
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: I just all I can think of is Freddy Krueger.
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: I actually have to have one leg. It's like a
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: thing as I have a like really, yeah, I'm a danglar.
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: It happens.
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: I guess. Another sign that you have poor sleep hygiene
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: is daytime sleepiness. I mean, except for those binge watching golf,
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: Sea Span or QVC, we understand if you start dozing off.
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: Or maybe never sleeping, right, which we're just joking. But
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: leave those things to David Blaine. He's the guy that
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: you can just have not sleep. You can't not sleep.
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: He cannot sleep, all right.
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: So if you find yourself waking up easily during the night,
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: having difficulty falling asleep, being sleepy throughout the day, and
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: not sleeping, those are signs that you might have poor
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: sleep hygiene, all right. So let's get back to Randy
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: Gardner for a moment, our sleep defining high school student
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: of the Dick Van Dyke years. So obviously his parents,
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: specifically his mom's concerned that this experiment of his of
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: staying up for eleven days is potentially dangerous to his health.
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: Particularly in the nineteen sixties, it was really not well
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: known the effects of extreme sleep deprivation and whether that
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: would be deadly. They did know that there experiments keeping
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: animals up that long that they did die, but they
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: weren't entirely sure why, And.
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: So of course his parents are concerned. A sleep researcher,
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: one of the only ones at this point in time,
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: a very nascent field, if you will, and they hear
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: about it and they get involved. Now real quick, I
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: just use that word, and I don't know what that
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: word means. So Abraham, tell me what does nascent mean?
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: Thanks? So nascent is just sort of coming into existence,
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: just starting to become a thing. It is the fetus
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: of an idea, I guess, if you will. So it
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: just displays signs of future potential. So something nascent is
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: like new and coming.
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: Up, unlike the GQP right, which has been kind of
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: like gestjading and boiling up in that political party for
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: some time.
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: All right, So JFK gets assassinated by Lee Harvey Oswald
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: or or was he? Or was he? Was it Magneto?
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: Not really related to this, of course, but it's significant.
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: It was an event that took places during the same time,
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: so over the new year. So this is the end.
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: It's like coming into winter and it's like decemberish. They
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: decide to do this experiment and then keep Randy wake
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: the entire time. So to keep them awake, they play basketball,
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: and they want to be constantly doing these tests that
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: keep them engaged but also assess his sort of mental state,
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: if you will. And so they do smell tests, taste tests,
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: and cognitive tests and they just basically just present those
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: things to him have him report, and apparently he actually
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: started getting really irritated with the smell tests in particular
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: and would snap at them saying like, don't make me
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: smell that. I hate that smell, even though it was
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: not an abrasive smell of any kind. Yeah it was lavender,
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah exactly.
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: I don't know what it was, but I want to
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: stay awake. Don't make me smell better?
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: How dare you make me smell lavender? So some quick
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: stats thanks to the CDC. I want to kind of
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: share a little bit about sleep in general. And so
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: the CDC recommends seven hours of sleep every twenty four
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: hour period. So that's they're a kind of general recommendation,
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: and obviously within that people are going to sleep need
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: more or less sleep per day or per you know,
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: whatever that might be per twenty four hour period. But
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: they recommend seven hours of sleep in a twenty four
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: hour period.
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: So the CDC provides data on which states of the
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: United States thirty eight to forty one percent of adults
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: reported getting less than an average of seven hours of
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: sleep per night, and a possible explanation as to why
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: they get so little sleep. And this, by the way,
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: we chose these ones because this was the the highest
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: numbers of people reporting less than seven hours of sleep.
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: We'll start with Michigan. We'd explain the reason to you,
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: but you can't see us pointing to our palms.
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: So I love this because it's a very nuanced thing.
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: If you're not familiar with Michigan, they use they use
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: their hand to tell you where they live, like because
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: Michigan is shaped like a mitten, so they tell you
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: the point they've held their hand to do that. So
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: if you weren'tamiliar with that, that's a very unique thing.
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: I don't know, all right, Alabama, sometimes your football team
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: always wins, and you got a party till the next season.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: Georgia, who do you think is running the CNN headquarters?
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: Twenty four to seven Steve korannaky.
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: Ohio. Drew Carey is still out there in Cleveland somewhere.
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: Rockin Illinois more like Illinois, turn it down over there.
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: Iowa hasn't slept since the primaries.
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: Oh, deep cuts, deep cuts, New York.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: I mean, uh, South Carolina. The locals are wonderful. But
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: when those damned Northerners flock to Myrtle Beach.
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: Oh, oh, what a ruckus, What a ruckus? All right, Delaware,
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: they've been celebrating those quote first state vibes since seventeen
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: eighty seven.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: West Virginia, those mountain mamas in their country roads get
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: pretty rowdy.
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: Kentucky Mitch McConnell throws a hell of a keger when
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: he's home on the weekends.
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: And Maryland, we don't know, but you should watch the wire.
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: Also, I don't know that i'd ever want to go
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: to a Mitch McConnell keger.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: Hard to imagine what that would be like. The keggers
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: might have an extra bladder though, right under the chin.
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: Oh do you guys have happened to have any natural ice?
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: Worst beer? Worst beer?
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: Michelob Ultra.
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: That wasn't even a dig at Mitch McConnell. That was
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: a dig at Natty ice. So anyway, all right. So
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: there are some demographics too, and we wanted to kind
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: of touch up on this a little bit. When we
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: talk about those folks that have had less than seven
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: hours of sleep per night, men are zero point seven
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: percent more likely than women to get less than seven
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: hours of sleep.
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: If that makes sense, I think it does. I understand it.
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: At least.
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: Basically, they get less. They get less sleep. Men get
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: less sleep, is what they're saying. Yes, that's that's the
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: way to put it. Men, men tend to get less
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: of than women. Adults age forty four to fifty four,
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: So the ten year gap in your goldenish years report
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: at thirty nine percent getting less than seven hours of sleep.
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: This is actually the worst of every age group.
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: By the way, Native Hawaiian or Pacific Islanders they report
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: out at forty six percent get less than seven hours
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: of sleep per night.
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, craziness. Yeah, not all right. So let's talk about then.
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: We've talked about where sleep is bad in the United States.
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: We've talked about why sleep is important and what happens
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: when you don't get enough sleep. So here's ten easy
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: ways to ruin your sleep. With just a little effort,
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: you'll never sleep again. It's easy.
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: It's easy.
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: Let's count them down. Coming in at number ten. One
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: way that you can ruin your sleep is to exercise
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: right before you go to bed. So it's like ten
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: o'clock at night, you're like, I'm really tired, I should
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: go to bed first, I'm going to go run three
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: miles then I'm going to go to bed. That actually
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: wakes you up considerably, makes it much harder for you
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: to fall asleep for most people. Or if you never exercise,
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: that also can be a problem. So there's a sweet
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: spot in there. Exercise during the day and don't just
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: never exercise. Exercise does help with sleep, just not right
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: before sleep right.
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: Absolutely. Number nine. Using your bed for everything for those
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: folks that are out there who are working in bed
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: or doing literally anything else in bed but sleeping. I
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: mean there are some activities obviously, but for the most part,
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: using your bed for everything in your life probably not good.
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: If you store things, If you use your bed as
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: like I don't know, storage for like your dirty clothes
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: or anything like that, that can also be quite a
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: problem for your sleep.
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, make that a sacred space.
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: Yes. Absolutely.
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: Number eight. Using screens in bed, related to the one
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: that you just gave, but specific advice of watching TV,
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: looking at your phone, playing on your iPad or your
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: Nintendo switch or whatever it is that you've got. Using
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: screens in bed, particularly around bedtime, is one another way
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: you can ruin your sleep.
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: Number seven food before bed. If you tend to be
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: somebody who snacks and likes to eat like a big
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: meal before bed, you might feel tired. Like yesterday, I
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: ate a burrito called a burrito loco and it was divine. However,
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: if I eat that before bed, even though I would
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: feel tired, I wouldn't sleep.
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: Well, it's because it's logo. It's yeah, it's.
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: Red sauce heartburn for everybody.
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: Number six work right up until bedtime. So if you
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: tire yourself out by just powering through, powering through, powering through,
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: and then going to sleep, that is going to be
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: a recipe for not sleeping. While you want to give
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: yourself some wind down time most of the time, so
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: you can work right up until bedtime, make sure that
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: you do not get very good sleep.
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: Number five tossing and turning until you feel tired. Now,
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: this is probably liken too. Maybe exercising where any sort
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: of like major movement and kind of doing all of
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: that stuff will increase your heart rate and increase the
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: activity in your body, so probably not conducive for trying
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: to relax.
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: Number four, Wake up whenever you feel like it. This
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: is a great way to make sure that you do
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: not get regularly sleep and that you are sleep deprived
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: and that you have trouble falling and staying asleep. Just
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: wake up whenever. Yeah, don't have a set routine or
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: time to wake up, just whenever you get around to it.
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: Whenever it feels right, that's when you should get up.
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And then number three to get back on that
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: sleeping in on the weekends. This is something that people
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: try to do right because you don't have to be
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: up anywhere you are have to work or anything like that.
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: So what you do is you sleep in, and it
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: throws off your sleep schedule. It throws off the times
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: that you're normally up, it throws off those times that
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: you go to bed, It throws off everything. It's not
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: a great way to plan your sleep.
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: Number two stay up late. Always stand up late is
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: a great way to make sure that you do not
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: get enough sleep and that you are more likely to
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: want to sleep in, sleep in on the weekends, wake
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: up whenever you feel like it. Just go ahead and
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: stay up late all the time, and you will have terrible,
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: terrible sleep.
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: Mm hmmm.
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: And number one but in general alcohol, alcohol when it
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: gets into your system, does not allow you to have
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: deep sleep. You tend to sleep. So some people will
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: be like, well, drink some alcohol and I relax and
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: I'll sleep well. But what ends up happening is with
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: alcohol in your system, you actually sleep lighter and you
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: don't get that deep sleep that you need for your
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: body to repair.
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: Alcohol is the best way to screw up your sleep
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: perly or as close to permanently as possible. Using it
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: to get to sleep, using it, and then falling asleep.
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: Our ways to make sure that your sleep is just
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: the absolute worst and also great thing about alcohol is
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: that if you drink alcohol before you go to bed,
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: you're more likely to wake up in the middle of
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: the night to have to go to the bathroom.
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: M hm.
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: So get you aroused from your sleep in the middle
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: of the night as well. So this is really like
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: the one two punch of ways to ruin your sleep
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: is using alcohol to sleep.
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: Uh huh. And if you ever wonder why you get
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: heartburn after you drink alcohol. One of the things that
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: alcohol does is it relaxes the muscle at the top
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: of your stomach and allows for you to get acid
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: reflux easier.
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: But if you're really not trying to sleep, you should
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: totally get on a peloton while binge watching mad Men
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: and eating Bond Bonds and reading emails at midnight on
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: Saturday with a glass of scotch next to an unmade
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: bed because you just woke up after tossing and turning.
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: So as long as you're not trying to sleep, that's
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: not you're read.
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: Hopefully this time we got our ad breaks for sleep
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: number mattresses, so we can make a little bit of money.
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: Oh man, So let's talk about some other things that
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: mess with your sleep, starting with daylight saving time.
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Now, luckily for us, this episode's gonna come out
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: just right after daylight saving time takes place in the
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: United States, and so let's talk about how this affects
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: everyone's everything. Daylight saving time is stupid. About seventy countries
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: do this, and research backs up the fact that it's stupid.
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: Science says daylight saving time stupid without even trying, and
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: I mean what I mean by this is I wanted
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: to look at the research on this, and so all
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: I did to go to the places where I look
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: for research is type in daylight saving time, sleep. Nothing else.
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: That was it just want just enough to give me
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: these studies without even trying. Beyond that, I found eight
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: studies since two thousand that scientifically prove daylight saving time
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: is stupid. And that is that everyone agrees that it
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: messes with sleep for everybody and all the countries in
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: which it takes place, and all the states in which
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: it takes place, because we have one state in the
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: United States who has rebelled against this nonsense system. So
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: in short, the sun is canceled. Hashtag the Sun is canceled.
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: Take that space.
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: There are very few times where I feel like I
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: agree with Arizona, and this is one of them.
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: Right, So all right, daylight saving time done.
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: Daylight saving time is canceled. So with that being said,
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: what if we want to sleep better? What do we do?
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: And this is something that we really kind of this
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: is the backside of the episode that is going to
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: be helpful for you. Right, don't do any of those
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: things we recommended like drink alcohol and toss and turn
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: all night instead do these things that we're going to
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: talk about now.
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So if you actually want to sleep for some reason,
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: you're weirdo, you mostly do the opposite as we describe.
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: Just as you said, now, caveat, you don't need to
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: do all of those things at once. So, first of all,
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: making big changes like this can be difficult for a
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: lot of people. Alcohol is obviously an addictive substance, and
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: so for some people it's going to take a lot
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: more than just wanting to sleep more to kick that habit. Second,
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: you may not need to make such changes to have
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: the effect that you want. And third, some of the
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: strategies will work better than others for different people. So
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: I recommend that you try changing some things, see if
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: they have an impact, and if not, try other things
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: and sort of, you know, manipulate, change some things at
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: least a little bit, see what works.
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, So in this next section, we're going to talk
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: about four main domains of change. We're going to talk
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: about routines, daily habits, sleep schedules, and bedroom environments. All
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: of these things can have a direct impact on how
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: well you sleep and getting a better night sleep or
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: getting the sleep easier.
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so we've got some great strategies for how you
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: can never sleep again or just have the worst sleep
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: and try and be like a lifelong version of Randy Gardner.
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: But assuming that you do want to sleep sometimes, here's
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: some considerations around routine. First, keep it consistent. That is consistent.
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: What I mean by that is all the time in
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: because that was a vocabulary word for some people. Routine
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: meaning have a sting, a set like order of things
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: that you do around your sleep all the time. And
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: occasional things conferences, holidays, jet lag. Probably those are things
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: that are going to happen and they're fine, But for
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: the vast majority of the time, your routine should look
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: pretty much the same.
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, So what you're gonna want to do is you're
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: gonna want to give yourself at least thirty minutes of
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: time dedicated to putting you in a relaxed state. And
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: that could be a lot of different things. That can
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: be meditation, that can be reading. Personally for me, in
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: order to relax, like reading is helpful, I can just
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: sit down and grab a book in a nice warm light,
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: read for a little bit, and if it's late at night.
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: I usually get pretty tired pretty quickly.
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: If it's late and I sit down to start reading
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: a nice soft light, I will make it a half
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: a page maybe mm hmm yep, and realize that I
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: didn't read anything at all.
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: Right exactly. I got to reread it anyway, So yeah.
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: Another thing is to stop using screen devices about thirty
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: to sixty minutes before going to sleep, and related to
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: that is generally avoid bright lights. I mean avoid most
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: lights really, but at least bright lights. Try to avoid.
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: If you're unable to get to sleep after about twenty minutes,
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: get up and do something else for a little while
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: and then try again. So that's totally fine if you're struggling,
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: I mean twenty minutes in. If you're struggling, then there's
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: probably something else you can do to help get you
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: to relax. But the other thing, too is only use
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: your bed for sleeping. Only that and well, you know sex.
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: We talked about that. You can use it for sex too,
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: but try not to use it for anything else. Don't
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: pair it with work, don't pair it with chores, try
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: to avoid doing those things. You should really only use
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: it for sleeping, maybe sometimes sitting down, napping.
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: Is cool, and having sex not breakfast.
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: Not breakfast, No, there's a separate table for that.
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: That's it for sort of routine things. Let's talk about
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: general daily habits. So it turns out that what we
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: do while we are awake impacts our sleep. What shocking
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: one is that if you're going to exercise, and you should,
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: exercise does help with sleep, do it during the day,
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: not before you go to sleep.
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: Right, and you're like a potted plant. You need sunlight,
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: so go get some. I can only spend about five
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: minutes outside before I flash fry, but I do.
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: Need some sun well, and that's Florida.
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: So yeah. Yeah.
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: Generally, avoiding substances, avoid nicotine, alcohol, eating caffeine before bed specifically,
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: I mean you can. You can obviously eat and drink
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: yeah yeah, yeah, and drink coffee, but don't use alcohol
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: to fall asleep. It'll knock you out faster, but then
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: you're less likely to get quality sleep and you're more
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: likely to wake up during the night. Obviously, caffeine late
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: at night affects some people more than others. Some people
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: like me can have a cup of coffee after dinner
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: and then immediately fall asleep.
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: Yep.
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: But for a lot of people that's very fairly sensitive.
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: So again just generally avoiding doing those things right before bed.
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and just to be clear, we do advocate for
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: eating and drinking and stuff like that. We're not Brevarians,
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: so like we do, yes, we do advocate for that
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: stay alive, Please stay alive. That would be the worst.
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: It's like, we listen to this podcast and we got
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: a recommendation not to eat. Nope, Nope, that was a
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: different podcast. So another one too, is a sleep schedule.
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: This is something that I think maybe some people struggle
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: with because we kind of get that idea of like, oh,
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: I want to sleep in. I want to have this,
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: I want to have this time to sleep in and
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: not have to worry about anything else. But you want
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: to have a set wake up time and you don't
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: want to sleep in just because you can. You're doing
• 30:25
  Speaker 3: that because your current routine isn't working. And so we
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: kind of talk about those routines before you're sleeping in
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: because something else isn't working somewhere, or maybe you're feeling
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: tired because you're actually sleeping in on days you shouldn't.
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: All right, the other thing, and this is one of
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: the more confronting, possibly the most challenging thing I'm going
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: to recommend. But if you want to have good sleep
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: again for some reason, prioritize your sleep. That means that
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: you'll want to stay up for things, right, don't go
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: to sleep. She was bedtime over partying, she was bedtime
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: over doom, scrolling over watching late night on YouTube. Choose
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: bedtime like you're gonna want to stay up for things,
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: don't right. Bedtime is important. Sleep is important, unless, of course,
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: you don't want to sleep, And then definitely choose those things,
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: and also plan.
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: To change your habits gradually. You're not gonna have a
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: major change all of a sudden. It takes time, It
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: takes effort, it takes intentionality to be able to do that, right.
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: It takes some time to gradually change those schedules and
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: those routines. So it takes some time to do that.
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: All right. Finally, let's talk about your general sleep environment.
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: Not lieutenant sleep environment, but general sleep environments. And so
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: one of the things in a sleep environment is to
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: have a comfortable place to sleep. Throughout all of high school,
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: I slept in a hammock. It was great. I would
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: do it again. And if I were not in a relationship,
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: probably because the card does sleep with other people, but
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: otherwise I don't know if there's probably some science out
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: there about that. I did not bother looking it up.
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: But anyway, having the comfortable place to sleep is key.
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: This is why, like if you see a that's on tour,
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: why they all look very tired because they never have
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: a comfortable place to sleep. It's usually on the floor
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: of somebody's house or on a couch or in the
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: van with no pillows. They're using their gear as pillows
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: stuff like that. So it really is kind of a
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: bad spot being in a touring band. It's very very
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: tough if you don't have hotels.
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, or they sleeping like one of those soap box
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: racing cars that they that they drag behind the bus.
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: Uh huh. Yeah, it's it's a whole thing with metal wheels.
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: They bring a car just to sleep in. Block out
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: disruptive lights and so this is something that I've noticed
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: lately in my neighborhood is that there is a specific
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: like it looks like somebody's shining a spotlight across our backyard,
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: so I have to block out that to be able
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: to sleep.
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: Effectively, are they trying to summon the Batman?
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: Probably? I mean, I don't know. There's it's probably my
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: arch nemesis in the in the hoa who's like summoning
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: she's mad because people have chickens. Oh okay, so it's
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: probably her. It's like Patty who's like shining a slide.
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: She's like, well, you need somebody to address this sign
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: like something like that at the you know, the middle
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: of the night.
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: Oh jeez. Another one, and related to the chickens, is
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: block out noise. You want to generally have a quiet
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: or at least noise consistent environment, so avoiding of a
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: noisy place is going to be important.
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: Yep. You want to keep the room a little cool.
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: So whoever wrote these notes thinks that sixty five degrees
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: fahrenheit is cool. That's freezing. That's that's freezing. That's not cool.
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: Seventy two degrees is the appropriate temperature.
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: I got that from from research. I mean not research
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: that conductive, but research that I read.
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: So it's like how Uno came out and said that
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: you can't stack cards in the game. That's that's bogus,
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: that's that's those are lies or it's fake news. That's
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: what that is. Sixty five degrees is fake news.
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: I think all right. Some of the things that you
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: can do are using calming sense such as lavender, not cocaine,
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: but that sense that's that are calming and smell good.
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Pink noise or white noise machines. So the ide
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: is you want to create like an unconscious queue or
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: trigger that helps your body wind down, blocks out of
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: the noises. Pink and red noises shift the high and
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: low frequencies in a way that many people find relaxing
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: in those types of noise. And also the research around
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: this suggests that these devices decrease the time to fall asleep.
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: So sometimes if it's queued up like it actually triggers
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: some sleep processes and you can actually go to sleep
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: pretty easily.
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So most people have heard of a white noise machine,
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: which plays what basically sounds like a static sort of sound,
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: just ongoing loud sound. But you might look up these
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: pink and red noises. This is a little bit newer
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: of an idea and then they're kind of interesting and
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: so if that's something that you enjoy, you might use
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: that as something to help aid in falling asleep.
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely.
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: All right, let's talk about how mobile phones have saved
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: us once again, which is that although we said no
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: screen time before bed, there are some things that you
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: can do to loophole that a little bit, which is
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: there are lots of mobile application that are intended to
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: facilitate sleep in some capacity.
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: Yep. Absolutely.
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: So there's this twenty twenty study in the Journal of
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: Medical Internet Research M Health and you Health. That's the
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: whole name, so long and this is by I'm gonna
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: pronounce this Gyoto at All that makes sense. Hope that
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: that's okay. Kyoto and colleagues found that apps that monitors
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: sleep they are I mean, they're acceptable at their job.
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: They're generally affordable, but it is worth considering that they
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: are very inconsistent and they're not as accurate as actual
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: medical devices that researchers might use. Yeah.
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: So if you really want to sleep really well, you
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: got to go to a place where they put those
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: sticky things on your.
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: Head, right, Yeah, very important. Sticky things help sleep a lot. Yeah,
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: sticky things.
• 35:43
  Speaker 3: All right, So from zamin at All in the International
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: Journal of Healthcare Management in twenty twenty, they found that
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: mobile apps help improve physical activity and sleep and respondents
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: across occupations and age ranges.
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: Wow, what an insightful comment one of us just made.
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: Here's some ads and then no one wanted to name
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: the apps in which they reviewed. From what I was
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: finding in these articles, however, they did review specific brands
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: of wearable tech, and so a twenty eighteen article in
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: the journal Frontiers and Physiology by authors peek, Kerr and
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: Sullivan reported that at the time of the article being written,
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: only three products had been evaluated and validated for monitoring
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: and supporting sleep. And so those three. Again, because this
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: is published research, I feel comfortable sharing these. These are
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: not sponsors of the show, although if they want to be,
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: let us know, yeh, send us some infol There's the
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: device called up by the company Jawbone. Looks kind of
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: like a one of tho little snappy bracelets but like skinny.
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: There's the Fitbit Charge two by Fitbit. Apparently the other
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: ones have not been validated, but that one has, or
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: at least at the time of the study. And then
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: the Aura ring by the company Aura, which my partner
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: I actually has one of these, and they're kind of
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: cool looking like they kind of look just like a
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: normal ring that you wear, and then it's got all
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: these crazy sensors on the inside of it that detect
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: all these various things about your body and you don't
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: have to turn on anything when you fall asleep, and
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: automatically detects when it thinks you're sleeping versus napping. Interestingly,
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: it makes a distinction between those things. M kind of
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: a cool device. They're fairly probably a few hundred bucks.
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: I think maybe three fifty or four hundred bucks. Yeah,
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: but something if people are interested in. That's the one
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: I'm the most familiar with at least.
• 37:29
  Speaker 3: All right, it's good stuff, So there is some stuff
• 37:31
  Speaker 3: out there. Now, let's take a second to look at
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: the behavioral view of this, because you know, obviously we
• 37:37
  Speaker 3: have that lens, so it's worth looking at when we
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: go into Volkovich at All in twenty fifteen and the
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: Journal of Sleep Medicine on the idea of co sleeping
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: with children, because this is this is something that comes
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: up a lot, the idea of co sleeping.
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: Definitely.
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: What this study did was it compared sleep sleep mothers
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: while pregnant and after birth. So it looked at the
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: mothers that that while they were pregnant after the baby
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: was born, and mothers who slept with their children had
• 38:00
  Speaker 3: more frequent night wakings and more fragmented sleep. And also
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: co sleeping versus solitary sleeping had no impact on sleep
• 38:07
  Speaker 3: quality for the infant, so the infant slept it didn't matter,
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: but for the parent they actually slept worse when they
• 38:12
  Speaker 3: were co sleeping.
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: Right. There was also a nineteen ninety four study I
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: understand that's a little bit old, but it was relevant
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: in the journal Sleep by authors Panhurst and Horn and
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: that found that couples sleeping with a partner showed increased
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: sleep disturbances, suggesting that sleeping with your partner at night
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: actually sleeping might be bad for your sleep hygiing, although
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: most people even with that still reported preferring to sleep
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: with a partner. And there's actually been another more recent
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: movement away from co sleeping with one's partner, again in
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: the interest of getting more sleep. I couldn't find any
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: recent studies that really backed that up super solidly yet,
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: but that is at least a trend that's emerging, so
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: there might be some research that follows to speak to
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: whether it would be recommended to sleep with a partner
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: versus alone.
• 39:00
  Speaker 3: Absolutely, so some other interesting things though, Because sleep is
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: this kind of experience, I guess that humans all share
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: at some level, or most humans, I should say share.
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: For a while, some people thought it was healthy to
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: sleep sitting up, So Frederick Douglas and Thomas Jefferson both
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: did this, And as a matter of fact, when you
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: go and you visit Frederick Douglas's house in Washington, DC,
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: you can see his bed is like three feet long
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: because it was specifically designed for him to sit up
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: while he slept. Real space saver, but not very comfortable, Nope,
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: not at all. Very counterintuitive ideas about things that were healthy. Yeah,
• 39:35
  Speaker 3: I guess there still are, but still yeah, I don't know.
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: I mean, I feel like at that time there's a
• 39:39
  Speaker 3: lot of things that were counterintuitive, so true, as opposed
• 39:41
  Speaker 3: today which were so scientifically sound.
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: That's right. Nobody puts jade things into their orifices in
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: these modern times. Did we just call out Gwyneth Paltrow?
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: We did, okay, good, good good, and goop more more generally.
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: But yeah, all right, So some other interesting tidbits here.
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: People of course, have done all kinds of interesting things
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: in their sleep that are just kind of wild and bonkers,
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: ranging from eating weird things, to harming themselves and others,
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: to having conversations that they don't remember, to stealing things.
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: And you know, it's possible people just claim that they
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: were asleep when they obviously were not and were doing
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: those things and then got caught. But there seems to
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: be some pretty good indication that there are quite a
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: few times that these have happened while people were totally asleep,
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: that they've done some interesting and weird stuff.
• 40:34
  Speaker 3: Yep, it's a weird phenomenon. I mean, it's really This
• 40:37
  Speaker 3: particular episode is specifically talking about how to ruin sleep,
• 40:40
  Speaker 3: but there are so many different topics that we can
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: cover within sleep that it just is a really broad
• 40:45
  Speaker 3: and interesting topic overall. Absolutely, So let's take a second,
• 40:49
  Speaker 3: because we have spent this entire episode telling you what
• 40:51
  Speaker 3: to do what not to do, but we have left
• 40:54
  Speaker 3: our friend Randy Gardner awake for a very long time.
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: That's right. So Randy, intrepid but very sleepy, he managed
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: to break that record. He stayed awake for eleven days
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: and twenty four minutes. The previous record holder I didn't mention,
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: though I believe was a DJ wh When I read that,
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: I had to imagine was DJing all eleven days without stopping?
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: So but this was the nineteen sixties, so I don't know,
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: or actually I don't know when that record. This happened
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: in nineteen sixties. I'm not sure when the djh set
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: that record, but like, were they just spinning the Beach
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: Boys for eleven days?
• 41:36
  Speaker 3: Even better? And this is happening in the nineteen twenties
• 41:38
  Speaker 3: where you had that really bad phonograph, like and like
• 41:43
  Speaker 3: he's just spinning ragtime music for hours and hours and
• 41:46
  Speaker 3: hours on end.
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: He's like that's great.
• 41:48
  Speaker 3: He's like I can't go to sleep. The flophus are
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: still here, and he's like doing all that, Like it's
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: I want to know. It's like it's gotta be like
• 41:53
  Speaker 3: DJ Pantaloons or something like that.
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: He just jitterbugged for a week and.
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: A half DJ Pennyfa.
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: So after this eleven days and twenty four minutes, Randy
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: was rushed to the hospital, where he then slept for
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: fourteen hours, only waking up to use the toilet and
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: then going back to sleep. I don't know how long
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: he went back to sleep for the second time, but
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: you know better part of a day there.
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: This is something too. It's like because of this, I
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: mean the assumption is because of this, but he suffered
• 42:20
  Speaker 3: from insomnia for years after he did this, so which
• 42:24
  Speaker 3: is awful, Like that would be the worst, Like, oh,
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna see if i can break this world record.
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: Now I can never sleep again, right, yeah. The sleep
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: researcher that was with them reported that Gardner's brain, or
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: at least parts of it, were taking naps throughout the
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: days that he was awake, basically arguing that it looked
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: to him. Again, technology is fairly limited in the sixties,
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: so I'm not sure how this information was directly obtained,
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: but they were basically reporting that different parts of the
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: brain would sort of shut down in sleep mode throughout
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: the day, so that he was kind of never even
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: really fully awake after the first day is kind of
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: what they were suggesting.
• 43:01
  Speaker 3: And so this is a skill that Batman has. They're
• 43:04
  Speaker 3: called micro sleeps, where he can that's why it can
• 43:05
  Speaker 3: stay up and be vigilant forever. It's like you should
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: sleep for like a couple seconds at a time, and
• 43:09
  Speaker 3: he's okay. So, but Randy Gardner is clearly not Batman.
• 43:13
  Speaker 3: So important point about this. The Guinness World Records actually
• 43:16
  Speaker 3: decided to stop certifying this record because it was too
• 43:19
  Speaker 3: dangerous and you could see like the adverse health effects
• 43:21
  Speaker 3: that came along with Randy just because of all this
• 43:24
  Speaker 3: and some of the stuff that we know today from
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: that record. But the Guinness World Records has actually stopped
• 43:28
  Speaker 3: actually recording.
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: This all right, I think we've wrapped it up here, Yeah.
• 43:32
  Speaker 3: I mean, I think there's still a lot to unpack.
• 43:33
  Speaker 3: I mean, specifically, this episode talks about how to improve
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: sleep and all that. It doesn't talk about like sleep
• 43:40
  Speaker 3: deficits in really far depth. It doesn't talk about sleep disorders,
• 43:44
  Speaker 3: it doesn't talk about all those things. So we have
• 43:47
  Speaker 3: a lot to dig into with this, and we'll probably
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: do a couple more episodes on it, I would imagine.
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: Yes, exactly, there's lots to talk about with sleep. Very
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: interesting topic and so as a take come just remember
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: if if you want to ruin your sleep, you should
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: exercise before bed, use your bed for everything you can
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: think of, use screens in bed, eat right before bed,
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: work until you're ready to go to bed. If you're
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: laying in bed and you can't go to sleep, just
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: toss and turn for a long time, wake up whenever
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: you feel like it, sleep in on the weekends, stay
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: up late all the time, and definitely use alcohol to
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: get to sleep. That will make sure that you are
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: just wrecked have the worst sleep of any person ever.
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: It is a surefire way to get there. Really, any
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: one of those things we'll definitely get you there, But
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: all ten together would be like you are going to
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: have the just be the worst sleeper on the planet.
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: Yes, And if you want to listen to actual advice
• 44:35
  Speaker 3: on how to improve your sleep, then what you're gonna
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: do is you're gonna look at things like routines and
• 44:39
  Speaker 3: setting up really good routines, making sure you have good
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: daily habits that help improve sleep, sleep schedules, in actually
• 44:45
  Speaker 3: improving your bedroom environment. Those four aspects of sleep will
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: help to improve your sleep processes. And where to go next.
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: As another sort of closing, I thought here in terms
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: of things to remember, there are these new applications and
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: technology that you can yous that have been validated by research.
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: So if you're having trouble sleeping and you would like
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: to sleep, aside from changing many or all of the
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: things that we've talked about, you can also lean on
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: some of that technology to help get you to sleep.
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: And finally just get some rest. I mean that's a
• 45:14
  Speaker 3: big take on point for me, is like get some rest.
• 45:16
  Speaker 3: You need rest, like you need sleep. There's no reason
• 45:19
  Speaker 3: where you should be not prioritizing sleep in general. And
• 45:23
  Speaker 3: this is coming from somebody who definitely does not prioritize sleep.
• 45:26
  Speaker 3: So right, I recognize the do as I say, not
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: as I do thing, but definitely try to get some sleep.
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: It's worth it.
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: I've been trying to keep it fairly tongue in cheek
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: throughout this, but we want you to sleep. We want
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: you to be able to sleep. And as Shane you
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: pointed out already that a lot of people have these
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: medical disorders that make it difficult for them to sleep,
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: and that's something that is not going to be necessarily
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: fixed super easily by following these You might be doing
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: everything right and still have trouble sleeping. But for those
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: of you, for who, for whom, that is not the case,
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: which is to say that you are just doing things
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: on this list that make it difficulty to sleep. I
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: would like you to be a sleepful human being who
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: gets the rest that you need. So these are some
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: strategies to consider taking making some changes so that you
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: live a long, healthy, happy life.
• 46:13
  Speaker 3: Absolutely absolutely awkward.
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: Segue to some ads, all right, and with that, I
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: think we're ready for some recommendations, Yes, recommendations, all right.
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: I will go first because mine is not related to sleep,
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: and therefore it doesn't matter. We can end on something
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: that's a little bit more to the point. So I
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: am recommending another board game because and so this board
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: game is called Photos. This is by publisher Blue Orange Games.
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: And this is a really cool game where you build
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: these little I mean you don't have to build them
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: for the game, but to set up the game. It
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: comes with all these cardboard trees that you make, and
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: they look really cool. They're really pretty, and essentially everybody
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: gets their own color tree, and then you're trying to
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: grow these trees in a forest. Very cool sort of
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: strategy game where you're trying to like where can to
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: put my tree, and like you get points from your
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: tree catching sunlight. But if your tree is in the
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: shade of someone else's tree, or even one of your
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: own trees, then I won't get any sunlight. Okay, the
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: sun moves around the board. It's this cool sort of
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: cardboard cut out of the sun that you rotate around
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: the board after everyone's taken their turn, and so you
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: want to strategically place your tree so that they can
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: get as much sunlight as possible and then grow new
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: trees and spaces where they're going to catch sunlight, and
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: then you use those points to grow more trees and
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: that sort of thing. So really interesting game, very pretty
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: game to look at. And then I just love the
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: cardboard trees that came with that are really cute and
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: it's it's really fun. So I'd recommend Photosynthesis by Blue
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: Orange game.
• 48:00
  Speaker 3: All Right, I like it. I like it. So I
• 48:03
  Speaker 3: will admit that while you may hear the words Sleep
• 48:06
  Speaker 3: in my recommendation, it has very little to do with Sleep.
• 48:10
  Speaker 3: I'm recommending a band that I absolutely love and they
• 48:14
  Speaker 3: fall into the stoner metal genre or like sludge metal genre,
• 48:19
  Speaker 3: like you can definitely tell this band listens to Black Sabbath, okay,
• 48:22
  Speaker 3: and this band is called Sleep legitimately called Sleep. Now
• 48:25
  Speaker 3: I recommend just listening to them. They're a lot of fun.
• 48:28
  Speaker 3: They're big hit records. They have a record called Holy
• 48:31
  Speaker 3: Mountain Sleeps Holy Mountain. They have a record called dope smoker.
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: So if that gives you any vibe of like what
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: they might sound like like pretty much like if Black
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: Sabbath were even more stoned. Okay, I recommend starting with
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: The Sciences, which is their newest record. It came out
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: in twenty eighteen, and it's just slow, sludgy. I mean,
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: they have a song on that record called Anarcticon's Thought
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: and it's fourteen and a half minutes long and it's
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: just pure metal riffage and that's the only way, like
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: you go to this do you go to this concert?
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: You don't move, you just bang your head and yeah, man,
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: they's just a great band. So I just felt like,
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: as we were talking about sleep, I was like, man,
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: I really love Sleep the band, so let's talk about that.
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: So maybe it will help people sleep. Listen to Sleep.
• 49:14
  Speaker 3: If you don't like really slow trudging music, then yes,
• 49:17
  Speaker 3: it will absolutely help put you to sleep.
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: Great, all right, do you have anything else on sleep, Shane?
• 49:24
  Speaker 3: Nope?
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: Okay, So that was our original discussion on ways to
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: ruin your sleep, and we're here to give you more
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: updated information. Science changes, people learn new things, and we
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: discover you can make your sleep even worse than we
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: knew you could five years ago. So we'll talk about
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: some of these things in this discussion. Some of what
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: we will talk about is not necessarily new, but expands
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: on some of the things that we said from the
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: research we had done at the time by articles and
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: all that. So, for instance, we mentioned that you can
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: plan to essentially never exercise except right before bed if
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: you want to deliberately decrease your quality of sleep. Of course,
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: this means that exercising earlier in the day is better
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: for sleep, and we have even more information on that.
• 50:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so updated research indicates that to maximally reduce your
• 50:23
  Speaker 3: sleep quality, you should never strength train and only do
• 50:26
  Speaker 3: mild aerobic exercise again right before going to sleep.
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 50:31
  Speaker 3: Specifically, strength training is linked to a better sleep, and
• 50:34
  Speaker 3: while walking can be helpful for overall health, it did
• 50:37
  Speaker 3: not actually improve sleep. Although people who got to move
• 50:40
  Speaker 3: a good amount of sleep did walk more. It seems
• 50:43
  Speaker 3: to be that the better sleep increases the motivation to
• 50:45
  Speaker 3: go walking, but walking more doesn't necessarily increase sleep quality.
• 50:48
  Speaker 3: So walking is good, strength training is helpful for sleep,
• 50:52
  Speaker 3: and both of these things should be done earlier in
• 50:54
  Speaker 3: the day unless you want terrible sleep, in which case
• 50:57
  Speaker 3: do the opposite of that exactly.
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: Yes, we have so many useful things to say white noise.
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: The research on white noise has actually been kind of
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: mixed and unclear. We actually did a mini about the
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: different colors of noise, not sounds, noise sounds that people
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: have like brown noise and pink noise and green noise,
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: and we did a mini on those, So go back
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: and check that out you're interested. And I actually don't
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: think we talked about it in this episode originally, but
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: it was something I found when looking this up. So,
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: as I said, the research is a little mixed. For
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: some people white noise machines and sounds can be helpful.
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: For others it has no effect or can actually make
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: their sleep worse. But a recent meta analysis of research
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: reported that individualized implementation of white noise, and that has
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: to do with like identifying what is the optimal volume,
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: what kind of white noise should they be hearing, softer
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: or more static, et cetera, your age. All of those
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: are our considerations that must be individualized to have that
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: be an effective intervention for supporting quality sleep. Does one
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: size fits all approach really can't be expected to support
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: good quality sleep very meaningfully. So if you want to
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: destroy your sleep, go get just a random white noise
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: machine and you might be one of the lucky few
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: for whom that works, or it might make your sleep worse.
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: But otherwise, right now, the recommendation is this should be
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: individualized to your situation.
• 52:25
  Speaker 3: That's interesting. I do like the idea of like finding
• 52:28
  Speaker 3: the right It's like probably pitching frequency is probably part
• 52:30
  Speaker 3: of that, yeah, going like okay, like this this particular
• 52:33
  Speaker 3: sound is nice, yeah, and like finding the ones that
• 52:36
  Speaker 3: are not going to be like the white noise. It
• 52:38
  Speaker 3: sounds like, you know, Michael Myers is showing up in
• 52:41
  Speaker 3: your house. So that's that's that's different kind of concern.
• 52:44
  Speaker 3: You know, I could imagine going to sleep to that
• 52:46
  Speaker 3: like do Do Do Do, Do Do, which is not
• 52:49
  Speaker 3: white noise. But also but it's just scary true, all right.
• 52:55
  Speaker 3: So generally it is understood that junk food and eating
• 52:57
  Speaker 3: late are a good way to lower your sleep quality.
• 52:59
  Speaker 3: Snack and bed with sugary, high, highly processed foods and starches,
• 53:03
  Speaker 3: and you might be able to significantly reduce your ram
• 53:06
  Speaker 3: sleep and overall sleep quality. So that's good advice. If
• 53:10
  Speaker 3: you hate sleep.
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Alternatively, of course, eating healthier food and not eating
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: soon before bed improves quality of sleep. And furthermore, research
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: shows that poor nutrition and poor sleep creates a sort
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: of vicious cycle, so that when you have poor sleep,
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: we tend to seek out unhealthier foods, and then we
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: eat unhealthier foods, which tends to have us have worse sleep.
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: So there are you kind of have to start making
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: some deliberate choices depending on whether or not you are
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: wanting to have better sleep. If you want terrible sleep,
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: then just keep seeking out the highly processed food and
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: getting very poor sleep and then seeking out more highly
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: processed sugary food.
• 53:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a snake eating its own juicy, delicious candy tail. Well,
• 53:58
  Speaker 3: there is new research that we do want to share though.
• 54:00
  Speaker 3: So new research further found that our microbiome or as
• 54:04
  Speaker 3: I like to say, microbiome, can indicate how well we
• 54:08
  Speaker 3: are sleeping. Diets higher and fruits, vegetables, and fiber from
• 54:11
  Speaker 3: whole foods, not the proper noun whole foods, but actual
• 54:15
  Speaker 3: like you know, actual whole.
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: Foods that whole.
• 54:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, foods that are whole result in more diverse, more
• 54:21
  Speaker 3: robust microbiomes, which is directly linked to higher quality sleep
• 54:24
  Speaker 3: and sleep sleeping longer with greater resilience to sleep disturbances.
• 54:28
  Speaker 3: So not only are people sleeping better, they're sleeping longer
• 54:32
  Speaker 3: and less disturbed in their sleep.
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're they're less likely to wake up to like
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: for random reasons and whatnot.
• 54:39
  Speaker 3: Right, because I think we've talked about that on the show,
• 54:41
  Speaker 3: where like when we talk about sleep problems, there's different problems.
• 54:44
  Speaker 3: There's like falling asleep, staying asleep, and then like you know,
• 54:47
  Speaker 3: random night wakings. I think there's like four there's like
• 54:49
  Speaker 3: four major problems that people generally experience, right.
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, in different combinations, and like because it's like easy,
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: easily woken up, or maybe if you do wake up
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: you have trouble getting back to sleep. There's Yeah, there's
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: a variety of ways that it shows up. Yeah, yeah,
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: I think you're right. I think it is around three
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: or four like general ways they describe it. Yeah, we
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: did an episode on that too, I think a long
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: time ago. I'd have to go back and finte it
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: it's not this episode, that's all I know, or it
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: was and we forgot fair fair all right, Finally there
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: was a there's actually a very new line of research
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: that now has multiple studies that suggest that our language
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: itself might even affect our sleep. Now, I do want
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: to set this up with the understanding expectation that this
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: research is emerging, So I am. I am personally skeptical
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: of how robust these effects will ultimately turn out to
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: be until we have further research and scrutiny that look
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: at this phenomenon. But the findings right now are suggesting
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: that if you perceive, talk about, and persevere and think
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: about your previous night's sleep as being poor, you will
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: have worse outcomes associated with that poor sleep. So complain
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: about your sleep a lot to ensure, however poor it was,
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: you will suffer the effects the most severely that you can.
• 56:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like that's really fascinating. It's like manifesting, but
• 56:14
  Speaker 3: like manifesting a nap, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's
• 56:21
  Speaker 3: a way.
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: It's like letting yourself spiral about something that already kind
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: of sucks, and it's just like, let's just dwell on
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: that as long and as hard as humanly possible.
• 56:28
  Speaker 3: Sure, yeah, yeah, let's make this worse. Yeah, Okay, that's fair.
• 56:32
  Speaker 3: I mean, and I think, you know, just for everybody's sake,
• 56:34
  Speaker 3: that's really it. I mean, if you believe or tell
• 56:37
  Speaker 3: yourself that you are well arrested and perceive that you
• 56:39
  Speaker 3: feel okay, you tend to perform better on cognitive tasks
• 56:42
  Speaker 3: and other measures associated with higher quality sleep, if that's
• 56:45
  Speaker 3: even what you would like. But that's it.
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, So the whole suggestion is like our perception
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: and beliefs about our sleep, and of course perception and
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: beliefs means our language about our sleep, whether or not
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: it's privately in our own minds or the way we're
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: thinking about it, or things that we actually do and
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: say with respect to it. But they're suggesting right now
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: that perseverating on it will ultimately be worse than if
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: you were to just perceive that it was okay at least,
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: if not even good, and that there was demonstrably measurably
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: improved effects from those two different ways of languaging about
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: the phenomenon.
• 57:21
  Speaker 3: Uh huh.
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: And again I'm like, yeah, that's fine. I kind of
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: get where you're coming from. But I do think like
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: there's going to be some limitations set by the boundaries
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: of how little sleep we can really get away with
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: and still be able to function. So I will wait
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: to see if there's even more research. Maybe we'll have
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: to do a super nostalgia where we come back to
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: this in five more years and see if they've actually
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: done more well controlled studies around this and been able
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: to elucidate this phenomenon even more, if it exists at all.
• 57:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I do like the idea of a super nostalgia.
• 57:55
  Speaker 3: That's fun.
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: Right, all right, Well, that was quick. We got through
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: the updated stuff super fast, which is great because that's
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: super efficient for our time. So I think we are
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: ready to do some recommendations.
• 58:08
  Speaker 3: Let's do it all right.
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: Before we do that, we want to get through the credits.
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: If you like to support us, who can join us
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: on Patreon. If you do that, you will get ad
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: free episodes early episodes, and I will read your name
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: and as a as a thank you to the people
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: who support us over there. And here are the names
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: of the people who do that right now, So a
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: giant thank you to Mike m Megan, Mike T, Justin,
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: Kim Brad, Stephanie, Brian Ashley, Kiara and Charlie Ah. You
• 58:31
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• 58:34
  Speaker 3: The best, absolutely the best.
• 58:36
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• 58:39
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• 58:42
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• 58:44
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• 58:48
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• 58:50
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• 58:52
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• 58:55
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• 58:58
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• 59:00
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• 59:02
  Speaker 2: do that. If you'd like to tell us your thoughts
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: on being able to destroy your own sleep quality or
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: improve it, you can email us directly info wwdwwdpodcast dot
• 59:11
  Speaker 2: com or reach us on the social media platforms, and
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: we do very much look forward to hearing from you.
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much to my team of people without
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: whom I cannot make this podcast writing and fact checking
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: from Shane and myself. Thank you for recording with me today.
• 59:23
  Speaker 3: Shane Hey, thanks for having me.
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: Our social media coordinator is Emma Wilson, and our audio
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: technician Guru Executive producer extraordinaire is Justin who is very
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: good at what he does.
• 59:33
  Speaker 3: Oh and he's just so handsome.
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: All right, let's recommend some things. Yay recommendations.
• 59:47
  Speaker 3: Okay, So I'm going to recommend what is described as
• 59:50
  Speaker 3: a black comedy thriller directed by your goes Lanthemos. It
• 59:55
  Speaker 3: is called Begonia. Now, I'd been seeing trailers for this
• 59:59
  Speaker 3: and it just seems really fascinating and really interesting. It
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 3: is starring Emma Stone and Jesse Plemons. By the way,
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 3: the director has directed let's see a couple of music
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 3: videos that are just He directed a Radiohead music video,
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 3: so that's cool. But he directed a couple like kind
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 3: of indie films, Killing Him a Sacred Deer, which I
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 3: heard was really great Poor Things, which I heard got
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 3: really good reviews.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: Poor Things did well at the Oscars last year, but
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: I haven't seen it yet.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I heard it's great. So the story centers around
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 3: a conspiracy theorist named Teddy Gatz and his autistic cousin Don.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 3: Teddy and Don are believe that it focuses on colony
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 3: collapse disease for bees, and so they have kind of
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 3: pulled the thread to find that this company, Oxalith, is
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 3: responsible for possibly causing this, or at least they think
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 3: so based on this conspiracy theory. So what they do
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 3: is they kidnap Michelle Fuller, the CEO, who is Emma Stone.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 3: The kidnap her, and they start questioning her because they
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 3: believe that she is an a and Dramadon from the
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 3: Andramenin galaxy come to Earth to destroy humans. And that's
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 3: the center of the conflict of the entire movie. Wow
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 3: the Kidnapper. In the preview, they shave her head, and
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 3: they explained that they shave her head because she communicates
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 3: with her mothership via her hair. It's very ridiculous and
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 3: very over the top, but it is so good. The
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 3: music design in it is incredible. It plays like a weird,
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 3: discordant Wes Anderson type of feel to it. And the
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 3: writer Will Tracy, which you know, you can kind of
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 3: see there's like a little bit of humorance there, and
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 3: I was kind of curious what he did. He wrote
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 3: the menu, Oh, okay, so very similar humor to that
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 3: where it's like dark and thrilling, but you're like, oh,
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 3: this is a lot of fun. And he was also
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 3: a writer on Succession and Last Week Tonight with John Oliver.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 3: So this guy's got like a real like kind of
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 3: deep I think, like humor well to pull from. Also
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 3: one thing to note, and I really want to share
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 3: this the cousin that I mentioned, that's the autistic cousin
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 3: that's part of the conspiracy theorists. His name is Aiden Delbas,
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 3: the actor, and he is autistic in real life. And
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 3: so they hired an autistic actor to play an autistic
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 3: person in this movie, which I thought was really cool.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and something they should be doing all the time.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: But I'm glad that is something that's happening more as
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: I feel like they're they're finding their footing with these things.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, agreed.
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: And you said this is a movie, not a TV show.
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 3: It's a movie. Yeah, it's a movie, and it's shot beautifully.
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 3: It is so interesting, and it is it's a great
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 3: it's a great watch.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: And you mentioned it's streaming on Peacock right at the
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 2: time of this recording, at least at.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 3: The time it's recording of streaming on Peacock.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: Yes, might be available elsewhere, so look around for it.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 2: But that is Bogonia, all right. I am recommending a book.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: This is a book by Blake Crouch called Famous. Apparently
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: this is going to be a movie coming out I
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: think this year with zac Efron. Okay, And I don't
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: want to give too much away about the plot other
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: than I'm going to say the main character is obsessed
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: with being famous and happens to look a lot like
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: a already existing famous celebrity that is fictional for the book,
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 2: but I'll leave it at that. It's this. It was
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: really good. It is a little bit of a downer.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: It is not very long. It's only like one hundred
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: and eighty pages, like you can finish it pretty quickly. Yeah,
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: And it's very very compelling. It's well written, and man,
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: how do I want to I'm trying to say this
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: without selling. I want to sell this and also be
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: honest at the same time. I call this genre of
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: things a train wreck. And it's just you're watching the
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 2: main character just make decision after decision that you know
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: is ultimately going to result in like like oh, please don't,
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: please don't. I know what you're doing, Please don't.
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And that's kind of.
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: What happens, and it just goes on like that. And anyway,
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 2: it's I it is really good and it is also
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: a bit of a downer, but it is. It's not
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 2: that and it's not terrible, And honestly, I think by.
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 3: The end.
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 2: It ended in a way that I was probably maximally
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: satisfied with from like as how the story played out, Like,
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: I don't think he could have ended this a lot
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: of different ways that would have been as satisfying as
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: the way he ended it. So I actually think he
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: did it exactly the right way.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I like this genre of book where it's like
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 3: it's just the person is just a mess.
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: Ye.
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 3: There's a really great book called The Cup by Arthur
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 3: Inner Session that's the same thing where it's like this,
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 3: this guy just likes tumbles and tumbles and tumbles, and
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 3: you're like it's a monster of their own creating. It's great.
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, he's a cup for sure. All right,
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: agree with me? Well we should wrap this one up here.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: Is there anything else you'd like to add or anything
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: I forgot before we say our goodbyes.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 3: Get some sleep, folks, get some rest.
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 2: Yes, indeed, all right, thank you all for listening. This
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 2: is Abraham and this is Shane. We're out. So yeah,
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 2: you've been listening to why we do what we Do.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: You can learn more about this and other episodes by
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: going to WWDWWD podcast dot com.
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 3: Thanks for listening, and we hope you have an awesome day.