Latest / Libido Lounge / Why Long-Time Couples Stop Wanting Sex (And How to Fix It) with Tarah and EJ Kerwin

Transcript

Why Long-Time Couples Stop Wanting Sex (And How to Fix It) with Tarah and EJ Kerwin · Libido Lounge

• 0:00
  Welcome to the libido lounge where we focus on all things love, lust, and libido.
• 0:05
  We believe that fabulous sex is important to health as exercise and good food.
• 0:19
  Hey, everybody.
• 0:20
  Welcome back to another episode on the lounge.
• 0:23
  I'm your host, doctor Diane, and I'm thrilled to introduce you to Tara and EJ Kerwin.
• 0:29
  They are relationship coaches.
• 0:31
  They are married couple, and this particular couple knows so much about something we've
• 0:37
  talked about on the show before, which is desire discrepancy.
• 0:41
  What to do when you are in a relationship and your passion has maybe fallen to the wayside
• 0:47
  and one person has much more or less of a desire than another.
• 0:52
  So it's super common.
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  It's something that I know I work with people all the time on, and I'm so excited to be
• 0:58
  introducing you to this couple today.
• 1:01
  So welcome to the show, you guys.
• 1:03
  Thank you for having us.
• 1:04
  It's cool to be here.
• 1:05
  It's so exciting to be here, and, also, I love this topic because, again, we operate a
• 1:10
  couple's counseling facility.
• 1:11
  And I would say eighty percent of our couples come in with intimacy navigation.
• 1:16
  But a big piece of that is that higher desire, lower desire partner, and how do we get them
• 1:21
  trying trying to be on the same page so that they can have a satisfying sexual relationship,
• 1:26
  like, for them.
• 1:28
  Absolutely.
• 1:29
  Absolutely.
• 1:29
  I like what you said too.
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  I think that one of the first things in my mind to help people understand is, like, this is
• 1:36
  normal.
• 1:37
  This is a common problem.
• 1:38
  This is not, like, a weird thing that is, is so uncommon that people don't have strategies for
• 1:45
  how to deal with this.
• 1:47
  So in going down this topic, can you just kinda maybe set the framework for if somebody maybe
• 1:53
  is, like, kinda say a step before this?
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  Like, maybe they haven't even identified that there is, say, a desire discrepancy, but maybe
• 2:01
  they've just seen that their passion has kinda fallen to the wayside or maybe it's creating
• 2:06
  some tension for them and their partner.
• 2:09
  What's kind of, like, the beginning opening conversation around libido and passion and this
• 2:15
  topic that you would say, ask people to start with?
• 2:20
  I mean, I think the the first thing that we oftentimes see is is almost unrelated to to
• 2:25
  sexuality, and it's just frustration.
• 2:28
  I think that couples come in to see us, and their communication is breaking down, and
• 2:33
  they're frustrated with one another.
• 2:35
  And and there's just this overall, like, sort of, you know, just angsty feeling between the
• 2:41
  two of them.
• 2:43
  In the background is oftentimes the fact that that their their intimate life has has gone
• 2:49
  offline.
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  But because they don't have really a framework to talk about it and to to talk about it,
• 2:54
  especially in a healthy way, they've just sort of pushed it aside, and everything else has
• 3:00
  sort of become the main symptoms.
• 3:03
  And I would say because kind of this model we developed is to really develop these healthy
• 3:09
  communication skills before we get to our intimacy piece, but we're always talking about
• 3:14
  intimacy throughout, you know, our journey with couples.
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  And, usually, what you hear is couples don't talk about their sex life.
• 3:23
  They just don't.
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  It used to be good, and and maybe now they have kids or, you know, they're going through, like,
• 3:28
  middle age and hormone stuff and but no one ever talked about it.
• 3:32
  There was just this expectation that it would still be okay.
• 3:35
  And so we really try to help build the communication skills first and the emotional
• 3:41
  safety first before really diving into, each other's personal feel because it's very
• 3:47
  vulnerable to talk about that.
• 3:49
  And and trust me, we'll have couples come in and they're like, we just wanna all we wanna do
• 3:53
  is talk about why we're not having sex anymore.
• 3:55
  And we're like, well, we got a whole model for this because you can't just talk about it in
• 4:02
  that way without having understanding of, certain skills you need to empathize with each
• 4:09
  other so you can have that compassionate conversation.
• 4:11
  Because at the end of the day, they both want the same thing.
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  Because
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  They wanna they wanna have a really great intimate relationship.
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  Well, and oftentimes, the way that they are talking about it is in really, like, sort of
• 4:21
  unhealthy poking, maybe using humor, but it's not really funny to the other person.
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  So, like, Tara says, they're just not communicating about it in a healthy way
• 4:31
  whatsoever.
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  And and I'm not sure, doctor Diane, if you've had this happen.
• 4:35
  But so we have when we do start talking about higher desire, lower desire, we will have
• 4:42
  partners who literally, like, will get undressed in other rooms so their partner
• 4:48
  doesn't, like, see any skin so that they don't have to have that, like, feeling of overwhelm.
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  Like, oh my gosh.
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  I have like, we he wants to be intimate tonight or she wants to be intimate tonight.
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  Like, they hide out from each other.
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  And we're like, wow.
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  That must be so, like, lonely in that place.
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  Like, you we find that most couples are very lonely in the intimacy realm personally.
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  And so just being able to give them the safe space to talk about it, that's, like, the
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  number I know you said, what's, like, the first point?
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  Just having that safe space where they can actually, you know, say what they need to say
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  in a in a way that won't feel judged or criticized.
• 5:27
  Yeah.
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  I've seen that too.
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  Yeah.
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  I've seen situations where people one partner will purposely go to bed, like, maybe fifteen,
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  twenty minutes before they're ready because they wanna, like, make sure they're either
• 5:38
  asleep or they look like they're asleep before their partner comes in the room.
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  So similar types of things.
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  Right?
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  Hiding.
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  And Mhmm.
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  I think you said is really important that I wanna go back to, which is that fundamentally,
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  that oftentimes couples are, say, wanting the same thing.
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  And and I think about that when I think about desire mismatch.
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  I often think about, like, okay.
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  Well, what is the fundamental thing that partners want when it comes to desire?
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  Well, probably breaks down on some levels to some things that overlap, like connection,
• 6:12
  love, care, and these feelings.
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  So is that some of the things like, do you find when it comes to desire and libido and
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  sexuality that it feels like, you know, couples think that they have this discrepancy as they
• 6:29
  might think.
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  Do you do you find that?
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  I mean, I think that the that in the broad sense, they are connect they are, like,
• 6:37
  connected in what they want.
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  You know?
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  They wanna have a connected relationship.
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  They wanna be able to communicate about things in healthy ways.
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  They want to, on some level, meet each other's needs.
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  It's just that, you know, oftentimes, the needs are are just very different, you know, and and
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  what it's gonna take to get them into an intimately connected relationship, oftentimes,
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  is about broadening the definition of intimacy that it that it's that for one, it's it's much
• 7:04
  more physically based, and the other person, it's more emotionally based.
• 7:08
  Right.
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  And like Tara said, first, getting some of their just, like, basic communication skills
• 7:14
  cleaned up so that they can actually listen to one another so that they can get into what's a
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  really, you know, nuanced conversation.
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  Well and and we also because we know how, again, vulnerable this conversation can be and
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  how alone they've probably been in their suffering around this for however long.
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  And so we really get their story about their own, like, knowledge of their body and what
• 7:43
  they learned about sex and from their parents.
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  Like, we get a whole background, and now their partner gets to sit with them and hear.
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  Like, oh, I really didn't learn anything, or I was told not to masturbate, that masturbation
• 7:56
  was bad.
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  And we try to, like, understand all of the limiting beliefs they have around intimacy and
• 8:04
  their own body and pleasure and desire before even kind of right?
• 8:08
  So that way we can understand where they're at and are they in a box.
• 8:12
  And then just that opens up this idea, like, my gosh.
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  There's so much more to explore that we haven't even thought about.
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  Like, we just were kind of in this box.
• 8:23
  And I feel like that really that's like a breath of fresh air when we start to kind of go
• 8:28
  down that road for couples because it's it's not about that they're not having sex.
• 8:34
  It's just about that they've never had, you know, this, what's the word I'm looking for?
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  Like, this narrative around, like, how do we have, like, amazing how do we really please
• 8:44
  each other?
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  How do we satisfy each other?
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  How do I satisfy myself?
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  What do I like?
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  What do you like?
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  You know?
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  So we do a lot of, like, exercises of having partners just focus on one that's one, and
• 8:58
  that's it, and putting safety containers in so it doesn't go farther than what the other
• 9:02
  partner might like.
• 9:03
  I mean, there's a lot of different tools and interventions we do when we are helping a
• 9:07
  couple start off with, you know, kind of creating a whole new narrative for their for
• 9:13
  their intimate life.
• 9:15
  Yeah.
• 9:16
  I love it.
• 9:16
  And I wanna go back to something you said here a second ago, EJ, because you had said that
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  that there is almost like broadening, right, the word of intimacy.
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  And so it's like that to me sounds like, oh, one of the steps we're talking about with kinda
• 9:33
  reprogramming the the relationship and reprogramming the the desire discrepancy, we
• 9:39
  could say.
• 9:40
  One of the steps could be breaking down kind of the misconceptions or the myths or the stories
• 9:46
  that we have about our sexuality.
• 9:48
  So, I hear in some of what you guys are both saying that, one, there's this kind of myth
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  around or this misconception around what is intimacy.
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  Let's broaden it.
• 9:58
  Mhmm.
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  You know?
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  And then, Tara, I hear what you're saying almost fit into a different, say, myth or
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  misconception around, like, okay.
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  Well, we don't have to replay the sexual script.
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  This we do x.
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  We do y.
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  We do b.
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  We play out the same story.
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  There's actually something beyond that, and it's we can make this safe to talk about.
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  So my question with all of that being said then is what beyond those couple things could we say
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  are common myths or misconceptions that you maybe see with couples you work with around
• 10:27
  libido and sexuality?
• 10:31
  He or she is just not into me anymore.
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  Right?
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  Like, they just don't like me anymore.
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  Like, they don't even want me to touch them or I have we haven't touched in forever.
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  Just like this assumption that the partner is just not into them and have been sitting with
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  that for some couples decades.
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  And I think one of the most destructive sort of myths is that, that if your intimacy breaks
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  down, that there's something wrong with you, your relationship, your partner.
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  You know, it it's this idea that, you know, and this has to do with just sort of our suffering
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  in general is that we tend to always think, like, our suffering, I'm the only one.
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  Everybody else out there is having a great sex life or is very connected with their partner,
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  because I see them at dinner parties, and they seem like they seem like they're having a hell
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  of a time.
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  And then and then, wow, we're we're just broken.
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  You know?
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  And and just because we've seen so, you know, hundreds and hundreds of couples over the
• 11:27
  years, to us, we understand the fact that, yeah, it is absolutely not just normal, but but
• 11:35
  almost guaranteed that at some point, your intimate relationship with your partner is
• 11:41
  going to face some some struggles.
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  And and if you believe you're the only one, that's a huge, huge wall to get over because
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  then it's like, I don't wanna tell anybody that.
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  You know?
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  Why would I ever wanna open up and get support around that?
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  You know, it's it's just too vulnerable.
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  And I have to, like one of the biggest ones I'm, like, sitting here, like, is while we have
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  kids and kids kinda take priority, and so we've kind of both just put our intimate life in the
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  background for now until the kids grow.
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  And it's just one of the most destructive things you can do for your relationship because
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  you always have to make your partner the priority no matter what.
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  Meaning, even if you do have when if you have kids, you're going out on your date nights at
• 12:28
  least once a week, even if it's just, like, removing yourself and going to another room
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  for, like, an hour.
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  And so not cultivating that relationship with your partner because the idea is that the kids
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  take priority.
• 12:41
  Feel like that's a big myth.
• 12:42
  Absolutely.
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  Yeah.
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  So starting to come back to putting the relationship is like Yeah.
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  This is the top priority right beyond all else, and all the other things start falling into
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  line from a standpoint of if we can keep this strong, then we become the foundation stronger
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  to address all these other things in life.
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  Right?
• 13:01
  Mhmm.
• 13:03
  I will say this too for women, I mean, me included, like, going through my forties and,
• 13:10
  like, totally feeling very different than I did in my twenties and thirties hormonally.
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  Right?
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  Now I'm only having my menstrual cycle, like, once every four months, so I know it's all
• 13:22
  happening.
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  And it just feels different and scary, and I'm so glad I can let EJ in on that process.
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  Because if I didn't, he's gonna be assuming that I'm just like, oh, I just don't care
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  anymore.
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  But, no, it's just this.
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  Like, I have to find out, like, how do I, you know, do all the healthy coping skills that I
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  need to do to, like, make sure that I feel somewhat balanced and that we're spending time
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  together.
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  And even if I don't have that desire in my body like I used to, talking about it at least makes
• 13:55
  me feel emotionally connected to EJ even if I don't have that, like, let's go.
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  And just that keeps us connected even if we're, right, not engaging in physical sex all the
• 14:07
  time.
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  It's having the conversation is especially for me going through all of my stuff right now,
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  it's super important because I don't think he would know how alone in it I feel and how
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  uncomfortable it is for me.
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  Like, I don't want this to happen.
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  I mean, someone give me a pill.
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  I I'd love to take it.
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  Like, give me a shot of testosterone.
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  Like, please.
• 14:29
  When I and I just think that speaks to, like, how, like, complex it is and and that that, you
• 14:35
  know, the work that we've done because so much of the work we do with couples is, you know,
• 14:40
  comes out of not just research, and experience working with couples, but also our own personal
• 14:45
  relationship and knowing that, you know, getting through our intimacy and and working
• 14:51
  towards being more consistently intimately connected, there's, like, so many facets to to
• 14:58
  how that's happened.
• 14:59
  And some of that some of it's, like, has nothing to do with sex and and intimacy.
• 15:03
  It's just, like, creating an environment where Tara feels, like, safe and and where we
• 15:09
  communicate in healthy ways about complex things, you know, that we had to, you know, go
• 15:15
  through all of that.
• 15:16
  And then building emotional safety for us is a big thing that, like, you know, that we both
• 15:22
  feel safe to be who we are.
• 15:25
  And then and and then there's there's all these layers of like yeah, then then Tara's got to
• 15:30
  find a way to talk to me about stuff that you know in heterosexual relationships there is no
• 15:34
  way like I have zero idea like I have so little knowledge not just of, like, just the
• 15:41
  physiological stuff, but then her experience of it.
• 15:44
  Like, what what does it mean physically to go from a period every, you know, twenty eight,
• 15:50
  thirty days to every ninety days?
• 15:53
  Like, we have to have, like, a real solid base of communication where she can find a way to
• 15:59
  help me understand that.
• 16:00
  Because if she's expecting me to just get that, it it's impossible, and then we're gonna be
• 16:06
  very separate in it.
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  I'm and I'm gonna make up I'm gonna have my own assumptions like she said.
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  I'm gonna think, like, of a hundred other reasons that things are the way they are other
• 16:17
  than than the way that she's actually feeling.
• 16:19
  Well and when I'm hearing you talk, like and I see a lot of our couples that come in for
• 16:25
  couples counseling.
• 16:26
  It's just this feeling of powerlessness.
• 16:28
  Like, I'm powerless to this hormone.
• 16:32
  I wish I could inject into my eyeballs, like, whatever I need to.
• 16:36
  I'm powerless to it.
• 16:37
  And and if EJ and I didn't talk about it, he would feel powerless in his own way.
• 16:43
  Right?
• 16:43
  And now we're just we're on, like, separate islands, like, you know, maybe with a megaphone
• 16:49
  once in a while.
• 16:50
  Like, hey.
• 16:50
  Can you but, you know, just separate.
• 16:53
  And so it's just trying to find the conversations to have so you can feel connected
• 16:59
  because we truly believe emotional intimacy is very connected to physical intimacy.
• 17:04
  And and we do we work with a lot of, like, couples on nonsexual affection because there
• 17:09
  are, you know, couples that come in as, like, all they want is sex.
• 17:13
  Like, I don't have just hug.
• 17:14
  One one person within that couple, most of the time, wants that.
• 17:18
  So we kind of, right, introduce the idea of, like, nonsexual affection and maybe just
• 17:22
  kissing for the sake of kissing, but not going anywhere else and just hand holding, you know,
• 17:27
  when you're out at the store when you can't just, you know, get down and get naked.
• 17:32
  Little notes.
• 17:33
  You know, just find ways to express love that make you feel connected.
• 17:37
  Yeah.
• 17:37
  Yeah.
• 17:38
  I I like to say that foreplay is not the thing we do the five minutes before, the big things.
• 17:43
  Right?
• 17:43
  It's, like, everything that happens in between.
• 17:46
  It's everything you're talking about.
• 17:47
  Like, the little note, the hand holding, all of that is actually foreplay, and I think it's
• 17:52
  really, unfortunately, just kind of this thing that we toss to the backside around.
• 17:58
  Like, that's not important, and it's it's actually, I think, one of the most important
• 18:01
  things.
• 18:02
  So I wanna wrap up with our time today, and then I'll tell people how to get ahold of you.
• 18:07
  But I wanna wrap up with a final question because with you guys with, like, reading a
• 18:12
  little bit about your background and knowing that you guys have blended family, four kids,
• 18:17
  you work together.
• 18:18
  And I know, like, these are these are common things.
• 18:21
  Right?
• 18:21
  Well, whether or not couples are working together or have the blended family, have kids
• 18:25
  or don't have kids, but there's so many different ways that you guys are integrated
• 18:30
  into your life.
• 18:31
  So my question for you, if you don't mind sharing something personal, is, like, what sort
• 18:36
  of, like, couple strategies have you guys found with how much you everything in your world is
• 18:42
  together?
• 18:43
  Right?
• 18:43
  Your work, your kids, your your entire life, right, is so blended.
• 18:48
  So what did you guys find at your top couple strategies to really make sure your
• 18:52
  relationship stays strong?
• 18:55
  Do you wanna go first?
• 18:56
  Or
• 18:56
  Sure.
• 18:57
  I mean, we have to just be constantly connecting and talking even if it feels like
• 19:05
  there's nothing to talk about or or if it's, you know, just a matter of having a cup of
• 19:12
  coffee for, like, four minutes in the morning before the day launches.
• 19:16
  Like, to us, like, that that's the most important thing.
• 19:20
  You know?
• 19:21
  And and then I think for for for me personally, it's continuing to cultivate empathy for for
• 19:31
  Tara even if I'm not feeling that at all.
• 19:34
  And I think that's a big thing that that couples struggle with is that, like, sometimes
• 19:38
  when we do inevitably face a lot of, like, really difficult things or we disagree or
• 19:45
  feeling, like, disconnected is just, like, in my head just being, like, this is the person I
• 19:50
  love.
• 19:50
  Even though I'm frustrated, I want to be as empathetic and caring as I as as I can be.
• 19:56
  And that that that's, like because it's very easy to get caught into, in my just speaking
• 20:01
  personally, into my own repetitive thought patterns that pull me away from her.
• 20:07
  And so it's, like, so important to figure out ways to keep my my heart open even in the times
• 20:13
  where where I don't, when I wanna, like, close it off or I wanna, like, avoid.
• 20:18
  Well and can I just share?
• 20:19
  So, like, on Saturday night, we always try to have, like we don't get to go out much because
• 20:24
  we have kids and, you know, they're with us every weekend, and we're, like, the sleepover
• 20:28
  house.
• 20:29
  Right?
• 20:29
  So all of the kids are at our house.
• 20:31
  But, like, on Saturday night, we always have these, like, deck of couples cards, and these
• 20:35
  were, like, the intimacy version.
• 20:37
  So we sat outside, had a glass of wine, probably asked each other, like, 15 different
• 20:42
  questions.
• 20:42
  One had you, like, whispering in your partner's ear what you wanna do that it kind of, like,
• 20:47
  was some foreplay that maybe or maybe not we could get busy later depending on how late the
• 20:52
  kids go to bed from the sleepover.
• 20:54
  But it was just like it there was no pressure.
• 20:57
  We were just exploring these questions.
• 21:01
  And if it happened later, great.
• 21:02
  If it didn't, it didn't matter.
• 21:04
  We still had that hour outside by our pool, and it felt really nice.
• 21:09
  And I will say the more that EJ and I communicate about anything and everything in a
• 21:15
  way that feels nonreactive.
• 21:17
  Right?
• 21:19
  We're just it it's like organically happens that your desire increases because instead of
• 21:25
  EJ getting defensive now because my sex drive is so low, he's like, what is that like for
• 21:31
  you, honey?
• 21:31
  Help me understand.
• 21:32
  And and I get to say, like, what's it like for you to be really attracted to me?
• 21:37
  And, like, and, you know, seven out of 10 times, like, my frisky scale is freaking
• 21:42
  negative 10.
• 21:43
  We get to ask each other those questions where before we didn't.
• 21:46
  And so just EJ being more open and less reactive and and then me feeling safer about
• 21:52
  expressing my vulnerable feelings around what I'm going through, like, that has been, like, a
• 21:57
  game changer for us.
• 21:58
  And we have to model what we preach.
• 22:00
  So
• 22:01
  Yes.
• 22:01
  We have to do it all.
• 22:04
  Thank you.
• 22:05
  Thank you for sharing that that insight scoop.
• 22:08
  I really what I hear in that too is, like, one, yes.
• 22:11
  I can I can see that and feel that, and all of that makes sense?
• 22:15
  And, two, even from, like, science perspective, like, we know from research, like, we generate
• 22:20
  oxytocin, which you guys are I'm sure are doing in those intimate poolside moments.
• 22:24
  And what's so interesting about oxytocin is we generate it, and then the body wants more of it
• 22:29
  and more of it and more of it.
• 22:30
  So what you're saying around, like, oh, we do this, and then it makes things stronger.
• 22:35
  We want more of that, and that could lead to something that doesn't.
• 22:38
  But it it can actually even decrease the or not decrease, increase the desire even in just
• 22:44
  that.
• 22:45
  So thank you both so much for spending time with me today.
• 22:49
  We're gonna have everything about how to get in touch with you in the show notes.
• 22:53
  But I know you guys wanted to mention your relationship renovation at home program, which
• 22:58
  looks, I checked it out online.
• 22:59
  It looks super accessible, super thorough.
• 23:02
  It's tons of time.
• 23:03
  Can you tell us a little bit about that, and then we'll leave that in the show notes for
• 23:06
  everybody?
• 23:07
  Yeah.
• 23:07
  Absolutely.
• 23:08
  I mean, we put it together because we had so much success at our in office programs where we
• 23:14
  wanted people to be able to do it at home.
• 23:16
  And we know that people have a lot of challenges to getting to therapy sometimes.
• 23:20
  So, it's a it's a series of lessons.
• 23:23
  It has videos.
• 23:25
  It has, like, sort of behavioral prompts.
• 23:27
  If, like, you start the program and then two weeks have gone and you haven't you haven't
• 23:31
  logged in in a while where you get an email saying, like, hey, it's important to make your
• 23:35
  relationship a priority.
• 23:36
  It has lessons that you work with your, partner at home.
• 23:40
  And then, we're really excited in the coming year, we're gonna be adding a layer of coaching
• 23:44
  in with it as well.
• 23:45
  So,
• 23:46
  you know because a lot of couples get like, what do we do right here?
• 23:49
  And we're like, yeah.
• 23:50
  The video probably isn't enough.
• 23:52
  So more and more people are asking for coaching.
• 23:54
  So we and we have a team of therapists that are trained in our relationship innovation model.
• 23:59
  So we're gonna be able to offer online coaching sessions to help couples get through the at
• 24:04
  home for those who want it.
• 24:05
  Not everybody needs it.
• 24:06
  But, yeah, it's we kinda took our in office model and made it at home, and it's about four
• 24:13
  four months, I would say, because we try to not do it all at once.
• 24:17
  Like, you wanna see change and generalize it.
• 24:19
  So it's about a four to six months six month commitment, but it's really fun.
• 24:24
  And, again, it's just like couples being curious about each other, trying to learn
• 24:29
  because they they come in, they're like, oh, we we know everything about each other.
• 24:32
  We're like, really?
• 24:33
  Do you?
• 24:34
  And, really, that was the aim, and a lot of people around the world have expressed how
• 24:39
  amazing it's been.
• 24:40
  So, yeah, we're grateful for that.
• 24:42
  It's so great to hear.
• 24:44
  It's so great to hear.
• 24:45
  Well, thank you both so much for spending time with me today.
• 24:48
  Thank you everybody for listening.
• 24:50
  Again, we'll have all this information in the show notes as well as how to get this at home
• 24:54
  course off their website.
• 24:56
  And this is doctor Diane, your Libido Doc, signing off, reminding you to always stay
• 25:00
  classy, always stay sexy, and always be a little badass y.
• 25:04
  See you next time.
• 25:09
  Thank you for listening to the libido lounge.
• 25:11
  Please don't keep me a secret.
• 25:12
  Please share this with your friends.
• 25:14
  You can find me on YouTube, on Instagram, as well as how to work with me at mylibidodoc.com.