Latest / The Kink Consultant / How to Be Kinky as a Parent: Raising A Child Without Losing Your Dynamic with Athena Gale

Transcript

How to Be Kinky as a Parent: Raising A Child Without Losing Your Dynamic with Athena Gale · The Kink Consultant

0:08
It's a King Consultant podcast where we're turning up the heat
0:11
on all things kink and dating, relationships and pop culture.
0:14
So close the door, plug in your headphones, and let's get down
0:17
to it. Hey everyone, and welcome to
0:24
this week's episode of the Kink Consultant podcast.
0:27
I am joined by Athena Gale, an intimacy and kink expert who you
0:32
may know from Instagram because that is where I found her.
0:34
And even my boyfriend was like, Oh my God, I love her videos.
0:37
So it felt I was like, all right, pushing jealousy to the
0:39
side. Welcome, Athena Gale.
0:41
Hello that is so kind. I literally was asking my
0:44
husband this morning. I was like vanity question, if
0:48
you didn't already follow me, would you follow me on
0:51
Instagram? Oh my gosh, I've never thought
0:54
about asking that question to anyone.
0:57
I love it. What did he say?
0:58
And he? Was like, I would find you
1:00
interesting, he goes. But I don't know if you'd hit my
1:02
algorithm and I was like, will you have the kinky shit like I
1:05
am so. I would hope is his is his
1:08
algorithm not like you know some his men are on the.
1:11
Car algorithm. His algorithm is all golf,
1:14
fishing and motorcycles. It actually sounds a lot like,
1:19
well, my boyfriend says all construction, golf and cars I'm
1:22
sure. Everyone's done this at some
1:24
point. You kind of like go on your
1:25
partner. So it's like who are they
1:26
following? Because I had a cousin who has a
1:29
husband that was like anyways and so.
1:32
I don't like that. We all know where that's going,
1:34
by the way. Yeah.
1:35
It was like fishing, golf, and I was like, wow, this is whatever.
1:40
Yeah, So I never looked at the follow list.
1:42
I looked at the algorithm because you need to make sure
1:45
they're not like a secret red pill hating women person.
1:48
So I was like, let me see your phone and just went through the
1:51
apps and I was like mostly boring.
1:53
OK, I think we're good. Point, he probably gets a lot
1:55
more kinky stuff. I do try to disrupt his
1:58
algorithm a bit by sending him videos, but he's also probably
2:03
because of my harping has really dived into the lack of Women's
2:07
Health when it comes to intimacy.
2:09
And so that's been popping up in his feet a lot more to it's
2:13
anything around like PMDD or like hysterectomy care or
2:16
anything with hormones and just lack of knowledge about Women's
2:20
Health. And he has even started bringing
2:23
stuff to me. He's like, did you know?
2:24
I was like, I didn't know. But they, I've been hyper aware
2:28
as someone who has endometriosis, yes, like that
2:31
type of thing, yes. But you know what, I will give
2:34
credit where credit is due. There are some amazing male
2:37
creators out there now really taking up the fight for us.
2:40
And that is what we need. It's sad to say, but we need men
2:44
teaching other men because that's who men are listening to.
2:47
Men will listen to other men. I mean, the men will listen to
2:49
women too, the right men. But men do listen to other men
2:53
when I think that's fair. I mean, I listen to other women
2:56
and I might take the same thing as a grain of salt that a man
2:59
said versus maybe what a woman said.
3:01
I think it's you kind of resonate with your own, right.
3:04
We agree a lot on the different kind of creators and whatnot.
3:07
And then it's always disappointing to both of us when
3:10
we did really like a creator. And then it kind of comes out
3:13
that there's like some ickiness or like patronizing.
3:17
It's the worst, right? When I'm guilty of this, like I
3:22
will talk to other male creators in the kink space and I'm kind
3:25
of harsh sometimes I'm like, if anything bad ever comes out
3:28
about you, I'm deleting any interaction we've ever had.
3:31
Your podcast episode is like nonexistent.
3:33
I'm kind of harsh about it because I'd really hate to ever
3:38
give anyone a platform that was like that.
3:40
Yes. Oh.
3:41
I agree. And I've been on some other like
3:43
podcasts where they brought in men who weren't really experts
3:47
but were like enthusiastic about certain things.
3:50
Like I went on one where she had brought in a man that was like
3:52
super enthusiastic about like eating out women.
3:55
Like just a personal, like he's not like a face or any of voice
3:58
or whatever. And she ended up having to edit
4:01
around some of the stuff because he isn't used to speaking about
4:04
like boundaries and consent in the same way that somebody who
4:08
is well versed and he's like, I do it until she is begging me to
4:11
stop. And I go past it and I'm like,
4:13
Oh my gosh, please stop. I know unsafe things and I'm
4:17
constantly trying to balance it up because, you know, I do
4:19
listen to people and I'm like, I'm following you and listening
4:22
to you. Do you have credentials?
4:23
Like there's personal experience and I agree with that, but does
4:26
your personal experience put you to a level of safety that I can
4:29
trust? Have you been in education,
4:30
involved in your community? Like I'm not looking for a
4:33
degree, I'm just looking for have you, you put in the time
4:35
and effort and talking to people and being not unbiased as an
4:39
educator of many people in some way shape or form.
4:41
And I know that this person was like really well meaning,
4:44
definitely just trying to upwards how he loves to eat out
4:47
women, which is great. Do that.
4:49
Yeah, we need more of that. Yeah, we need more men telling
4:51
other men how great it is to eat women out.
4:53
Yeah, I already have two questions and I am going to say
4:56
them out loud. Number one for anyone who's
4:58
watching. Yes, we're going to ask about
4:59
the Slut Faming mug. We're.
5:00
Going to get there. Let's start with Athena.
5:02
How did you get into kink or how did did you discover you were
5:05
kinky? I've known for a really long
5:07
time, probably 20 years at this point.
5:10
So I am 36. I never like, hide my age.
5:13
I read the Anne Rice Sleeping Beauty series when I was 16.
5:18
Why I was allowed to read this series at the age of 16 boggles
5:22
my mind. I mean, that was before
5:24
romanticy really took hold of folks.
5:28
This was before 50 Shades of Grey.
5:30
And so it was kind of like out there and it super intrigued me.
5:34
Basically as soon as I got a boyfriend at 19 who was willing
5:38
to spank me, I was like, let's go for it.
5:41
And I learned pretty early on that I love impact.
5:45
I love bondage. I love some sort of role play.
5:48
And I was able to go a little wild in college.
5:51
I Unicorn with a couple. And then much like, I think a
5:55
lot of women, maybe not so much this younger generation, but the
5:59
expectations, you know, you got married and you had kids.
6:02
You finished your degree, you got married, you had kids.
6:04
And so I got married at 23 to basically the first man that I
6:10
met that also wanted to get married.
6:11
It did not work out so. Was he kinky?
6:14
No, he was, was he open to it? No, he was not.
6:18
He was not open to it. But I was like, I graduated
6:21
college. Like that's what you do when
6:22
you're young and you're experimental and you are
6:25
partying. And now I need to be a real
6:28
adult, get a real job, and like, you just go into vanilla life
6:32
and that's what you do. And I had my daughter when I was
6:36
25, and I just went to the motions and we pretty much
6:42
figured out that we disagreed on a lot of things.
6:45
And so that ran its course. And that's when I started
6:49
getting back into those things that had intrigued me in the
6:53
past and allowing myself to read that type of content again and
6:59
to be a little more sexier again.
7:02
And I had to go on my own self discovery like journey of like
7:07
who am I outside of being a wife and a mom and a government
7:11
employee because at the time I was a government employee.
7:14
Wow. Conformed to like.
7:17
I did I actually worked at a state prison for nine years and
7:22
I'm just going to be this very straight and narrow by the book
7:26
person and I felt like I'd lost myself.
7:29
So when I I started dating again, I ended up hitting it off
7:34
with a Co worker of mine who had been my boss at one point but
7:38
wasn't my boss at the time. And we started like dirty
7:42
messaging and he had called me little one in one of the
7:46
messages. And I was like oh because at
7:49
that point I was like I'm a dominant person in my life.
7:53
I am a boss bitch type of person.
7:55
Like I'm an alpha type woman. And he called me Little 1 and I
7:59
was like, that did something to me that I was not anticipating.
8:05
And so I went down this rabbit hole of what does that mean?
8:09
Because it is such an obvious thing to a kinky person.
8:12
Now I'm like, oh he was signaling right?
8:14
Did you? Were you guys already having
8:16
kinky talk when he called? You not like that.
8:19
Oh, and he was also going on this kind of journey.
8:22
He had been married for a really long time.
8:24
He's a bit older than me and by a bit.
8:26
He's 16 years older than me and had also started getting into
8:31
like bondage and impact play and stuff himself.
8:35
And when I looked it up, tied to daddy and daddy Dons and DDLG
8:41
and like all of that. And it just opened up something
8:44
inside of me that I had never contemplated, which is I really
8:50
enjoy being a semi symbol. Would you say that it was
8:53
dormant for the years that you were married?
8:56
Like you put it away in a box. I put it away and with my ex,
9:00
you know, he's a wonderful person when you just weren't
9:03
meant to be together. But I was the leader in that
9:06
relationship. And I think that's really what
9:08
ended up eroding the relationship, was I needed
9:11
somebody who could lead and be more assertive.
9:15
Just that type of energy in and out of the bedroom.
9:19
And what I love is I can be submitted in the bedroom, but
9:23
then outside the bedroom, it's like team equals.
9:26
You know, my husband now, he's the first one to say, like,
9:30
you're smarter than me. You're more successful.
9:33
You're a lot more witty. And I'm like, no, no, no.
9:35
We are so equal. But yeah.
9:38
And I would not be living the life that I live now without his
9:41
support. I mean, from day one, he was
9:43
like, you need to write about sex stuff.
9:46
Like, you are really good at writing about it.
9:50
My sex messages, I'm very good. And I used to write short
9:54
stories and I was like, no, like even then I kind of fought it,
9:57
even though I was on this personal exploration of like
10:01
finding who I was as a kinky person.
10:03
And we really just hit it so naturally where he's so
10:07
naturally that dominant role and I'm so naturally that submissive
10:11
role. Could I ever replicate it again
10:13
with somebody else? I don't know.
10:15
It's like lightning in a bottle. I understand that feeling and I
10:18
think it's amazing he was your first cheerleader, he said.
10:20
We'll do this, yes. To this day, I test sex toys and
10:25
that's part of a lot of work that I do in the sex space.
10:28
And he has put in the hours of the half night.
10:32
We had like a pile of vibrating strokers and like vibrating cock
10:37
rings. I get people all the time are
10:39
like, that sounds like the most amazing job.
10:42
You just get a test sex toys all day.
10:43
And I'm like, it is, but it's still a job.
10:46
And like there's a difference and that sort of intimacy.
10:49
Yeah. And so it's a lot more
10:51
communication and like, how does this feel and pausing and
10:54
evaluating. And he is the most patient and
10:58
credible partner for that. You're like.
11:00
Scientists. Yes.
11:02
Figuring out the toys together. Yes, and we do.
11:05
Actually. Something we got to play around
11:08
with last night is there's so much stigma around men using sex
11:13
toys, especially like using a vibrator or anything like that.
11:17
Like vibrators have just mostly been for women.
11:20
And last night, we're playing around with the vibrating cock
11:23
ring. But it's like, what else can we
11:24
do with this? Not just putting it on and,
11:26
like, doing penetration, but like, what else can we do?
11:29
And I had the best time, like, just rolling it around, like the
11:32
head of the penis. And like, is it sensitive here?
11:35
Is it sensitive there? And he's like, yeah, but you
11:37
have to hold it just right with the right amount of pressure
11:40
right there. And I was like, you know, it
11:42
sounds like you're describing a clit.
11:44
I literally I was just thinking that I was like, OK, so exactly
11:47
how we are. And I said, you know, women are
11:50
the same way that when you use a vibrating sex.
11:53
So you don't need to be like rolling it all around, hold it
11:56
with firm pressure in one spot. Yes, it did work.
12:01
Don't change anything up. Don't change anything up and he
12:04
was the same way. He was like, well, you know,
12:06
anatomy wise, it's like the same type of bummer was like.
12:10
Yeah. I mean yes, but also the P spot.
12:13
Yes and no. Yeah.
12:14
So you mentioned you hold a lot of different roles in the sex
12:18
space. I do.
12:19
Can you go through a couple of those like you're testing sex
12:22
toys you've written? Yes, I want to hear it all.
12:25
Yes. So how I launched into the sex
12:28
space, because like I said, I'd been a government worker was
12:31
during COVID, like a lot of other people, you're kind of
12:34
like grappling with what is my life.
12:36
And I had moved to an administrative role that
12:39
actually took me home a lot. So I was really bored and just
12:43
itching for something new. And so I took like a copywriting
12:46
course, which seems so like lame, but I was like, the first
12:51
question you got asked as part of this course was what topic do
12:54
you want to focus on this person's idea?
12:57
In order to be successful, you have to focus in on one topic
12:59
and then become an expert within that topic and only hit up that
13:03
type of work. And I was like, what can I write
13:05
about every single day and not get bored with?
13:08
And the only thing I thought was sex, that was it.
13:11
That was the only thing that came to my brain.
13:13
And I remember asking my mentor and other people in the cohort
13:17
like anybody else going to do sex?
13:19
Like is there anybody who has sex?
13:21
And nobody was doing just sex. It was people who are like an
13:26
econ might work with a sex toy company every so often or
13:29
somebody that worked with books, like a book type of like with
13:32
authors would possibly do an erotica book every so often.
13:35
But nobody was really like the sex copywriter.
13:39
And that's all they did. I on one other woman, Rose, who
13:42
is amazing, I reached out to her.
13:43
She lives in Australia and she was the only other person I
13:46
could find that was doing some sort of sex copywriting.
13:49
But even she was more focused on sex workers and almost did it
13:53
more on the side with her bread and butter like copywriting.
13:56
And I thought to myself, OK, so maybe I can just do this then.
14:02
And so I created a LinkedIn where I basically called myself
14:05
the sex copywriter and it was like a dog whistle.
14:09
I started connecting. I ended up doing work with Briny
14:12
Cole at the Sex Tech school. I got in with Cindy Gallup
14:15
because Sex Tech was having a moment during COVID.
14:18
Yeah, I remember. Easy to like get in and have
14:21
these more personal relationships with these
14:24
founders because so many of them were so new.
14:26
So I started as a sex copywriter.
14:28
I started taking on different clients, writing like blogs,
14:31
anything I could basically take. And then from there, I pivoted
14:34
to e-mail marketing because what I found is some folks who are
14:39
really skilled at specific things.
14:41
So e-mail marketing, graphic design, illustration ads may not
14:46
be comfortable working with the sex company.
14:48
And so really hard to find folks who first have an interest in
14:52
acceptance and like a good idea of how to promote these types of
14:57
items and like feel good about promoting these types of items,
15:00
but also have the skill set to do this at a level that a
15:05
company needs. And so I was.
15:07
I switched to copy. Copy or e-mail?
15:11
e-mail. Yeah.
15:11
Marketing. And I did a whole like deep dive
15:14
into how to basically build e-mail marketing from start to
15:17
finish. I did some courses and workshops
15:19
on it through like the Sexual Health Alliance, the sex tech
15:21
school. I did a lot of work with
15:23
solopreneurs where I would get them launched with something and
15:26
then they would take it over themselves.
15:28
I worked with different sex toy companies, some ecom, and all of
15:33
my clients found me through LinkedIn and that is when I
15:36
started working with an intimacy app called Aria.
15:39
And when I first was brought on with them, I was writing guides
15:43
for couples basically. And so they have these like
15:45
monthly experiences and I would come in and write these
15:48
basically start to finish everything you would need to
15:50
know about let's say temperature play.
15:52
And it would just be a whole storyline experience built up
15:56
for them. And it was a fairly scrappy
15:59
startup at the time. There was only like 7 of us
16:02
total and I was the only one who kind of fit the demographic of
16:06
who they were targeting, who had a partner that was willing to
16:09
like play along. And so I became their main sex
16:13
toy tester, which was great because then it's easy to write
16:15
about if you know. And so I started sex toy testing
16:20
and then started doing more of their external facing press, a
16:25
millennial mom, that's their target.
16:27
So I look like who they want to attract.
16:31
So it makes sense. And so I started become a little
16:33
bit more public facing and then I shifted to now I run our B to
16:38
C market within the app. And so I'm working with brand
16:42
partnerships. I get to actually innovate with
16:45
brands. So brands will send me products
16:47
and I will be like, this is great, but here's different ways
16:51
we can change it. I get to invent products with
16:53
brands. And then now I launched my own
16:58
Instagram where I get to then talk to people about kink, which
17:01
is really my first love. Your true passion, it's true
17:04
passion. Awesome.
17:05
It sounds like you both have a dream job and a dream passion
17:09
like side project that it's really rare to be able to be
17:12
this open. Yeah.
17:13
And so blunt and raw online about everything you're
17:17
interested in and your actual life experiences.
17:20
So it's kind of like you double dip on an amazing like journey.
17:24
Well. That's honestly how I got so
17:27
many of my gigs and working with these amazing brands is they
17:31
would be like, you talk about it like it's already not taboo.
17:34
And I was like, in my mind, it's not.
17:35
So it's easy to talk about it that way.
17:38
If I just talk about it in like an open, like palatable,
17:42
accessible just for the everyday person because I think the
17:46
everyday person is a lot more kinky than we give them credit.
17:50
And so if you already come at them speaking in a way that
17:54
doesn't seem scary and seems really approachable, they're
17:57
going to be interested in that. Absolutely, I agree completely.
18:01
I think that kink has a bad rap, Like, the name itself scares
18:05
people off, so it actually hurts people who want to explore it or
18:08
engage in power exchange. And I think that because the
18:10
word is so scary, people don't know how to do it safely.
18:13
Yes, because they're not, like, reading and researching and
18:16
understanding how much control they actually have to engage in
18:19
it. Yeah.
18:19
If you don't mind sharing, you had a daughter a few years ago.
18:22
How old is she now? She'll be 11 in a month, so OK,
18:26
I mean, wow. Yeah, I remember.
18:28
Being 11 and it was not an easy time for me, I do not know what
18:31
it is like to mother an 11 year old.
18:33
It's hard in this day and age. She doesn't have a cell phone at
18:37
all because of my previous work. I am like not pro cellphones for
18:42
kids. I'm so sorry if that offends
18:44
anybody. You do what you want.
18:45
I'm not here to parent shame you.
18:47
Do what you feel is right. I just don't want her to have a
18:49
phone yet. I actually think it's more like
18:51
how have you kept one away from her because it seems like a
18:55
battle from everything I hear. It's like really hard to win the
18:58
battle against any type of device like that.
19:01
Well, in this case, I'm fortunate we live in a real
19:04
rural community. So I'm actually in rural
19:06
Midwest, which has its own interesting quirks other than
19:10
what I do. But because we're rural, she
19:13
gets to be a little more isolated than somebody who, like
19:16
would live in the city. She's really not out and about
19:19
places that I'm not with her or like I share custody of with her
19:22
dad and like, we're just there all the time.
19:25
Then I'm like, I just want to let her be a kid a little bit
19:28
longer, but she just is about to enter middle school and she is
19:33
one of the last in her class but doesn't have a cell phone phone.
19:37
And so I've been researching flip phones and I did see some
19:41
article the other day that was like, teens are going back to
19:44
flip phones. And I was like, oh, are they?
19:47
Yeah, just make it popular and then give her a flip phone.
19:50
Yeah, and. She just wants a phone.
19:52
I think the hardest part is the socializing because all of us
19:55
have landlines, right? So we got to socialize and make
19:58
plans and talk through the night and whatever.
20:01
And by her not having a. Cell phone.
20:03
I'm almost keeping her from that sort of socializing, so she's
20:06
got to have something. I'm just not going to give her
20:08
the whole Internet yet. Yeah, that's like totally fair.
20:11
You work in the sex spaces and you are an educator of it.
20:15
How much have you taught her? Like how exposed is she to this
20:19
information? She knows a lot.
20:21
She knows a lot more, I think, than the average kid.
20:24
I have always been, since forever, very pro conversations
20:30
about sex and like, periods and puberty and relationships.
20:35
Even before I was really in the space, we had books on body
20:39
boundaries of like, you're changing body.
20:42
All of those sorts of topics were already part of our
20:47
conversation. Yeah, but now because.
20:50
Because my house is literally filled with sex toys.
20:54
Yes, of course, at first, like any parent, I would hide a lot
20:57
of stuff back before it was what it is now.
21:01
And so like, one time she found my magic wand and she was like,
21:04
what is this? And she had to have been like,
21:06
four or five. And I was like, oh, it's a mommy
21:08
massager. Perfect answer.
21:10
Yeah, like, it's a mommy massager.
21:11
And I remember like one year for Christmas, I got my husband one
21:15
of those Thera guns. Right.
21:16
Yes. And so she was like, well,
21:18
that's Dad's massager. And then she was, I was like,
21:20
can I use your mommy massager? And I was like, no, no, God's
21:25
there again. And so it wasn't like I was
21:30
ashamed. I've never wanted to come at it
21:32
like shameful. But now I really think she sees
21:36
a lot of what I have in my office is just product and
21:39
doesn't understand like the insurance and outs of it.
21:42
But we did have a conversation about Lube a couple months ago
21:45
because I had been sent a bunch of different lubes and they
21:49
happen to be like sitting out on the kitchen table.
21:51
And she's like, what is this? I'll say, you know, it has to do
21:54
with my work. And I'm like, do you want to
21:56
know or do you not want to know? Because she needs to be able to
21:59
consent to that. I love.
22:01
That that you ask for her consent before you share
22:03
anything, of course. I don't want to like do the
22:06
opposite by being too open with it to where it stigmatizes her
22:11
in a different sort of way. That makes sense, but I never
22:14
even thought about the concept of asking for consent to share
22:17
something when asked a question. I mean a child I guess because I
22:21
don't have kids. I'm like oh that makes a lot of
22:23
sense. You're not even going to lie.
22:25
Do you want the honest answer or would you rather not ask?
22:27
Yep. And sometimes she'll be like,
22:29
no, I don't want now and fair. I'll just say it's, you know,
22:31
it's from my work because I get packages delivered every day.
22:35
I mean, there's not a day that I'm not receiving something.
22:38
And so she's always like, oh, it's for your work.
22:41
OK. So yeah, I was like, well, do
22:43
you want to know or do you not want to know?
22:46
And she was like, I want to know because it's liquid.
22:49
So I'm sure she's like, what's the big deal?
22:51
And I explained to her, like, during sex, because we use the
22:54
word sex. And I said during sex, sometimes
22:58
your vulva inside your vagina has a really hard time, like
23:02
maintaining lubrication. And this just gives you an extra
23:07
boost. And I said, you don't have to
23:08
use it. It just makes it really
23:09
slippery. And I was like, do you want to
23:10
feel it? And she's like, yeah, So she
23:12
like to feel as slippery. It is.
23:13
And like, I'm not getting into the mechanics of like, it makes
23:16
the penis going better. Like, it's.
23:18
She knows already what is happening.
23:21
We've had the talk that I don't need to, like, harp it in every
23:25
single. Yeah.
23:26
And one of them was flavored, A flavored Lube.
23:28
So I was like, do you want to taste it?
23:30
And she's like, oh, this tastes good.
23:32
And I was like, can you go put that in the office for me?
23:34
Because I got in it and I kind of forgot to like put it away.
23:37
But yeah, much like how I talk about it, I'm going to talk
23:41
about it to her in ways now what I don't do with her, I don't
23:45
talk about slang with her. So I'm not saying like blowjobs.
23:50
It's all or comical. And, you know, we've talked
23:54
about how there are different types of sex that people can
23:57
have because statistically, most children are going to see their
24:01
first porn by the time they're nine years old because everybody
24:04
has a. Phone, phone or a device or some
24:08
device, Internet and. I don't want the Wild West of
24:12
the bus educating her on things. Well, in different ways.
24:16
And the more a child knows about sexual acts, the less likely
24:22
they are to be victimized. And so if she knows that oral
24:27
sex is a type of sex or anal sex is a type of sex, the less
24:32
likely maybe somebody could maybe tell her it's not.
24:35
Convince her it's something else.
24:36
Yeah, but I keep it pretty anatomical and she doesn't want
24:40
to talk about it near as much as I probably would have.
24:44
We are different people. I was a lot more interested in
24:47
these types of conversations when I was younger than I think
24:50
she is, which is fine, but one day it's all going to click.
24:55
It's really different. And she might hold off on
24:58
letting it click and be that in control of her mind that she's
25:02
like, I don't don't want to know these things until I'm ready.
25:04
Yeah, we have like the lounger in our bedroom and she's like,
25:08
oh, it's a slide that mom puts laundry on.
25:11
And it's so funny because she's connected the dots on so many
25:14
things. But then like things like that,
25:17
it just completely because she's a child.
25:19
We're like, I have a hook in the ceiling.
25:21
And so one time she was like, why do we have a hook?
25:23
And I was like, well, sometimes dad likes to hang things from
25:26
the ceiling. And she's like, OK, that tracks.
25:28
And I'm not telling her what she's from the ceiling.
25:32
Somebody. No.
25:32
It out, but you're not lying either.
25:34
It's like that's what it's for. Do you think that your childhood
25:38
where you would have been much more interested in this topic,
25:40
Do you think there's an element of enjoying the taboo or the
25:43
things that you're not supposed to know about that was fun?
25:45
Or do you think it was sex that intrigued you, even if it was
25:48
open? So my mom is really open about
25:53
this stuff to a level that as a parent now, I'm like, I don't
25:57
know about how open you were. Like she put me on birth control
26:03
when I was 15. I wasn't even sexually active at
26:05
that time, but I was entering high school and she was like,
26:08
you're entering high school, you got to be on birth control
26:10
because you never know what's going to happen.
26:12
And you've got to get into like the practice of it.
26:14
And so that was common. It was very open conversation
26:19
when I lost my virginity and like told her that I lost it.
26:23
Her first question was how big was he?
26:25
And I was like. No way did you answer.
26:29
I was like so big I. Wouldn't know I was going to
26:34
say. What context did you have for
26:36
what big was? If not anything inside you was
26:39
big, then yeah. Do you guys still have a close
26:42
relationship? Oh we do, but she's remarried so
26:45
she divorced my dad and I know way more about their sex.
26:49
Life. No, that makes sense because
26:50
it's not your dad. Yeah, it's not my dad because of
26:53
what I do. And I'm sure you find this too.
26:55
People just tell you things. Yes, I mean you not even asking
27:00
for it. You just tell them what you do.
27:02
They share and they share so much, and I love it.
27:05
I mean, I love hearing people's stories, helping folks.
27:08
I literally had a conversation this weekend where a woman was
27:11
like, I really want to get into solo pleasure.
27:14
And I was like, amazing. So I gave her like a Klitz
27:17
sucker and I go just, you know, goes under Clinton.
27:19
She was, well, I don't know where that is.
27:20
And I was like, oh, OK, So then I had to explain the anatomy.
27:23
And it's like, those are the moments that I live for.
27:26
But yeah, she'll be like, oh, so.
27:28
And so it's gotten really into this.
27:30
Do you have a bunch of products for that?
27:32
I'm like, yes, I. Love that though, like she has
27:35
the person to ask. It's like when you have a family
27:36
member who's a lawyer, you ask them law questions.
27:38
Actually, I get asked by aunts in their 70s, my dad's new wife.
27:44
I'm like, I just don't want to. Yeah, OK, so your daughter knows
27:48
all of this about sex, right? How does that translate to what
27:51
she knows about kink? So.
27:53
She knows a little bit because she'll see paddles, like she
27:56
thinks the feather ticklers are so cute and so much fun and like
28:01
silicone floggers and she'll come in and she'll play with
28:04
some of the stuff if I'm like working and she wants to hang
28:07
out and like I'll tell her. I mean, if she has a question
28:10
and wants to know, the only stuff that I put away is
28:14
anything that's really explicit. Some products that you get, the
28:17
packaging is like kind of straight up porn, right?
28:20
And so I keep that put away because I don't need her to see
28:24
that. But as far as like she has seen
28:27
handcuffs and she's seen lots of impact toys, kind of that basic
28:32
stuff, sensation and play, some of the callers and whatnot.
28:35
I don't think because she is so little that she's really
28:38
connecting the dots on all of that stuff.
28:41
Yeah, how people are using it. I'm sure at this point she just
28:44
thinks adults are really weird. I mean we are the ways you have
28:48
to entertain yourself as you age.
28:50
Like you just go deeper and deeper.
28:52
At least me for my own kinks. Definitely gone deeper and
28:54
deeper. As she's gotten older, we have
28:56
to be a lot more quiet about what we're doing and, like, do a
29:00
lot time things a lot better because she pretty much knows,
29:04
yeah, what is going on. And I don't want to harm her in
29:07
that sort of way. And so, yeah, we have to become
29:10
a lot more selective about things.
29:13
And she's always like, I know when you guys have done
29:16
something because dad washes his hands afterwards.
29:19
Oh my gosh, that's kind of hilarious that she's put that
29:23
together. I know I don't tell her that's
29:25
not that he's washing, but. Yeah, he spends a lot of time
29:28
washing. Stuff, yeah, sometimes she'll
29:30
get upset. I think it's also good for kids
29:34
to know that you have a relationship with your partner
29:37
outside of mom and dad. And I think it's really hard to
29:42
do that. I say it like it's a really easy
29:45
thing, but I think that's what folks struggle with the most
29:49
when they are trying to find their even just sexual self.
29:52
I mean, albeit A kinky self, but a sexual self once they have
29:56
children. Is it OK for me to be a person
29:59
outside of being a parent? And how much do we want our
30:03
children to see us as people outside of being parents?
30:07
So being open about your relationship as partners and
30:12
like having to prioritize you yourself as partners before
30:16
being a parent sometimes and like having your children kind
30:20
of know that is a really fine line.
30:23
And there's going to be some folks who listen in who are
30:26
like, I wholeheartedly disagree. Parenting comes first 100% of
30:30
the time. It's a hard thing to to allow
30:33
yourself to be like, no, my relationship has to come first
30:37
sometimes. That does not mean that you are
30:40
not a parent anymore or you're a bad parent or that you all of a
30:44
sudden can't be a good parent if you're also wanting to like,
30:48
prioritize your partner. But allowing yourself that space
30:52
to do that, I think it's the trickiest part of being a
30:55
parent. Balanced which balance is always
30:57
tricky, right? So you want to make sure the
30:59
person you love, you're fostering that relationship and
31:02
then also still raising your child in the way that you want
31:05
to raise them and be as attentive.
31:08
Yes. And people are really involved
31:10
with their children today, I think more so than previous
31:14
generations. There's so much stigma around,
31:16
like just pawning them off. They can't just go outside and
31:18
play anymore. And like, you don't have the
31:20
village anymore. Like grandparents aren't as
31:23
involved. And so many kids are part of so
31:26
many extra cupola activities, and you're just constantly
31:29
entertaining them. There's so much pressure on like
31:31
keeping them engaged, pushing them forward and like all these
31:35
things that your kids are just in it with you so much more.
31:39
And so I think today's kids have an expectation that they are the
31:44
decision makers just as much as you and your partner are and
31:50
that you kind of have to be OK with, like you're not a decision
31:53
maker. In this and that makes sense,
31:56
but also I think that what I see is parents are kids entertainers
31:59
now. Whereas like, I didn't feel like
32:01
my mom grew up entertaining, tainting me.
32:03
However I had a sister who was 13 months younger.
32:06
So we entertained each other. And I just think smaller
32:08
families are, like, leading to moms having to be the
32:11
entertainers, our parents in general.
32:13
Yeah. Do you feel like it's a fine
32:14
line that she gets upset that maybe you have intimacy with
32:17
your partner? Like, do you know what's going
32:19
on for her? Do you guys talk about it of
32:21
like, oh, why is this so upsetting?
32:23
Yes, we do. And we actually just had this
32:26
conversation two months ago. I was gone for a very lengthy
32:30
work trip. I try to plan that around like
32:32
my custody with her dad and and whatnot.
32:35
And so she came back about the same time I was coming back.
32:38
And so of course, it's wanting to put so much into her, but
32:41
then also wanting to reconnect with my husband.
32:43
And like, there was these things.
32:45
And so she had come back on a Friday.
32:46
We switched on Fridays. And so we did all the things.
32:49
We cooked dinner together. We played board games as a
32:52
family. We laid in our bed, watched a
32:53
movie, and we did all the things.
32:57
Finally it was like 9:30 PM and I was like, all right, I'm
33:00
tucking you into bed. And the night has progressed.
33:03
And of course, then she heard him wash his hands.
33:10
Well, then she started having a bit of a fit.
33:12
And so I went in to, like, check on her.
33:15
And she was, like, you said you were tired and you just wanted
33:18
to spend more time with Dad. And I think it's more if you're
33:23
spending time with him, you're not spending time with me.
33:26
More so than the intimacy part of it.
33:28
Yeah, I am having this experience and this relationship
33:32
and this, like, good time that doesn't include her and it won't
33:36
include her. And I think it's the jealousy of
33:39
the time and the attention, the fact that I am going to, I would
33:43
shift my attention to somebody else.
33:46
Whereas kids are very self-centered and want your 100%
33:50
attention 100% of the time. And they have to get used to the
33:55
fact that that's just not always going to be the case.
33:58
So yeah. And we kind of joked about it
34:00
for like a few days because she was like, you lied to me.
34:03
We just wanted to spend time with Dad.
34:05
Which is so funny. That's a nice thing.
34:08
Because I was like, oh, I'm tired, it's time to go to bed.
34:10
We did all these things together.
34:11
Like mom has to go to sleep now. Do you ask her?
34:14
Like what would you prefer I be honest next time?
34:16
All the time. She's like, no, I don't want you
34:18
to lie to me. And that's always been really
34:20
big for us. Like I'm not going to lie to
34:23
you. Like you're going to understand
34:25
within parameters of being a child of what you can understand
34:30
because your brain isn't the same as an adult.
34:33
And I've always been very open and like, loving dad does not
34:37
mean I love you less. And me spending time with dad
34:41
doesn't mean I like to spend time with you less.
34:43
That's a hard thing for kids sometimes, especially with moms.
34:45
That's a hard thing for adults honestly.
34:48
What you just explained is why I'm monogamous by the way.
34:51
I made a joke at the intro about being jealous that but I was
34:54
like no I understand why my boyfriend loves your content.
34:56
But what I was going to say is I'm not Poly.
34:58
I'm not ENM or any type of non monogamous because that's how I
35:01
feel about relationships. Do you know what I mean?
35:03
So I think it's hard at any age. It is.
35:06
And it's just like a more helpful thing to Start learning
35:08
it and understanding it as a child to navigate it a little
35:11
better. Kids nowadays, they need to
35:13
learn how to be bored and they need to learn how to be
35:16
disappointed, and they're not learning that.
35:18
Why was that such a theme though?
35:20
Like disappointment? And I don't know why that was
35:23
such a theme growing up. I.
35:25
Think it's being corrected? I'm really sorry to like the
35:28
young Gen. Z folks that didn't have this
35:31
corrected for. Them, you know, you think
35:34
parents your age are correcting that now it's sort of like it
35:37
feels. The balance from the parents
35:39
that I talked to, my husband is a professor and so he's like in
35:43
the thick of it with the early 20 year olds and I'm like, what
35:46
did we do to this generation? How did they even get through
35:50
school? Did nobody held them accountable
35:53
to like anything and. I don't know.
35:56
That was that COVID generation, like the kids who were home.
36:00
I think it's being a little bit more corrected, but I'm like,
36:02
it's OK to be bored. It's definitely OK to be
36:04
disappointed. I mean, I'm disappointed alive
36:07
every day of my life. My.
36:08
Gosh, Athena, I mean, it's honest.
36:11
Life is that way sometimes. And I just feel like, properly
36:15
conditioned to survive it. Yeah, you know, and be like, I'm
36:18
not happy this week. But we soldier on.
36:21
For me, I know I'll be happier next week.
36:22
Like I go in waves like that. You mentioned the other parents.
36:25
Do other parents know what you do?
36:27
Yes, they're becoming a lot more aware.
36:31
So I'm a bit of an introvert and I do love chit chatting and
36:35
whatnot, but I live in a very rural setting.
36:38
I'm on an acreage and I literally don't see people for
36:41
weeks at a time. And I'm OK with that and I kind
36:43
of love it. But because it's a rural
36:45
community and my daughter wants to live here, I have taken it
36:50
upon myself to start to get to know some of the moms more.
36:53
Because I think if everyone just thinks I'm that kind of weird
36:56
person that has this weird job that also doesn't talk to
36:59
anybody, isn't going to be great for her.
37:02
So I've made myself get to know more of the moms and like get
37:06
out in the community more. And through that, I've actually
37:10
hosted a couple of sex toy nights where, oh, wow, yeah, I
37:16
was actually approached by a group of moms and they were
37:18
like, hey, we know you do this thing.
37:21
And I think they thought I did like passion parties.
37:24
And I was like, that's not really what I do.
37:26
I said, But I have a ton of stuff I can talk to you about.
37:29
That's awesome. I did that and it's actually
37:32
really helped open it up and people are a lot more accepting.
37:35
But really, I'm the odd one out. No matter if my job was about
37:40
sex. I work for a basically a tech
37:42
startup. Nobody around here does
37:45
something like that. Nobody's remote.
37:47
It's a farming community. And then there's a nuclear power
37:51
plant. So you either work at the
37:52
prison, the power plant, or you're a farmer.
37:54
Like there's whoa or you're like in a support role in the
37:57
community. So you work at the dentist's
37:59
office or the grocery store, whatever.
38:01
There's not really anybody or the hospital, but nobody's just
38:05
a remote. I'm weird in that sense already
38:08
that I have a remote job. I know because people who do
38:11
your job don't live where you live.
38:12
Like, even in my mind, I'm like, that is not a job for like rural
38:16
America. No, at least that is not the
38:18
perception. But if, funnily enough, that's
38:19
what kink is all about, really bucking anyone's perception of
38:22
what things are supposed to be, yes, you're working your way in.
38:25
You're like working on the process of normalizing what you
38:28
do to help your own daughter sort of integrate, not because
38:31
of your job, but just to be friendly and a known face.
38:35
Yeah, because I'm so open about what I do on social media, I do
38:40
think about long term, like, how is this going to impact her when
38:43
she's in high school? How is this going to impact her?
38:45
Like, if people find what I do? And I do worry about that
38:50
because kids can be really cruel.
38:52
And it's hard enough just being a teenager in general.
38:56
Yeah, without your mom being a kink expert online.
38:59
I think about that because I don't have kids and I'm like,
39:02
can I have kids? Like what is it going to be like
39:04
when they're 7 and I'm doing school drop off?
39:07
And I literally take it like one day at a time.
39:10
I'm hoping because I'm so open with her.
39:13
I'm open to the people that matter.
39:15
There's always going to be folks and everywhere who are just
39:18
going to talk shit. And that's just the way it is.
39:21
And people who aren't going to agree with what you do no matter
39:24
what it is. And I'm sure as she gets older
39:27
and she starts navigating kids who may find me online, which is
39:31
kind of, but it'll open more conversation and it'll be
39:35
something that has to be navigated.
39:37
So TBD. I have another maybe slightly
39:41
personal question, but to the same tune of people finding you.
39:43
How does your ex-husband feel that this is your job and this
39:47
is how you're raising your daughter when he was not kinky
39:50
at all? We don't talk about it.
39:53
A lot of the reason why we just weren't meant to be together is
39:56
he's very religious and so she's also dealing with that.
39:59
She lives in one household half the time where it's sex wise and
40:04
then another household where it's like you are very
40:08
religiously entrenched. It's so hard on her.
40:10
I honestly don't know how she does it, how she plays.
40:14
Yeah, between the two, because we have very different
40:17
expectations of how you can handle yourself.
40:20
I mean, you always have the basic rules.
40:21
And we do agree on a lot of things.
40:23
We agree on the no cell phone, no social media and like certain
40:26
things like that. But then we're just never gonna
40:28
agree on some stuff. And so when it came to
40:32
navigating bras, when it came to navigating periods, she hasn't
40:36
gotten her period yet. But this year for fifth grade,
40:39
her and I went to Walmart and like, we went to the period area
40:41
and I helped her. We put together a whole period
40:43
kit. She wrote like a note out.
40:46
So we did a period kit with fresh underwear, pad wipes, and
40:50
then like a note that she can hand her teacher that said, I've
40:53
thirded my period. Can I go to the bathroom because
40:56
it's so hard for kids to vocalize?
40:57
That yes. That way she has everything
40:59
there and I basically had to tell her dad, hey, she's going
41:02
to be carrying this in her backpack.
41:04
Also, if you haven't thought about this, maybe you should be
41:07
like, you can't stop her from having a period and navigating
41:11
the bra conversation because like a lot of folks out there,
41:15
he was like, she's too young for a bra.
41:17
And I'm like, oh, that's because you're sexualizing a bra, like
41:19
bra sexual things. We had to navigate that, which
41:23
was kind of hard. So as her body changes and we go
41:26
through these sorts of things, that will be something.
41:29
Now, one thing I saw recently, this whole conversation around
41:33
how like we give teen boys lotion and condoms.
41:36
So we're like, go rub one out. It's OK to like stock your son's
41:41
bedroom with like lotions and tissues.
41:43
But then we don't give girls the same accessibility to discover
41:48
their own self pleasure in the same way that we give teen boys.
41:51
And so that will be something that I have to take into
41:55
consideration. Are you?
41:56
Preparing for that conversation. I am.
41:59
I had read an article about how like we should be giving teen
42:02
girls vibrators and I was like, probably.
42:04
I also know for yourself, like you're not always pro vibrator
42:09
and I definitely don't want reliance on toys.
42:13
Yeah, but. By the way not anti vibrator I
42:16
just have the most sensitive clit ever so when my 20s I could
42:20
use vibrators. I don't know what happened my
42:22
early 20s and then it's just like no more.
42:25
But anyway because I'm not as well versed in them, I didn't
42:28
even really think about the over reliance because that's not a
42:30
reality for me. But I do know it is for women.
42:33
But I'm not against giving teenagers vibrators either.
42:35
Like learn to use it safely. Well, and it's that whole thing
42:39
that we teach adults. If you don't know how to find
42:42
your own pleasure, how the hell is somebody else going to find
42:45
pleasure for you? How are you going to teach them
42:48
how to pleasure you? And why would I set her up for
42:52
failure like that? Like you're not as open as your
42:56
mom, but definitely talked about sex openly.
42:58
I wasn't ashamed about my body. I didn't think my virginity was
43:00
some special thing I had to guard.
43:02
And then I don't know, I am not type A to the Max alpha, but I
43:07
can be a little dictator of this is how I want it.
43:10
So from the first time I had sex, I was like, do this, do
43:13
that. And I just guided the whole
43:14
thing. And he was so excited.
43:16
He was like, you told me everything to do and I was like,
43:18
yes, and you follow directions like good job because not even
43:22
dominant, just prioritizing. My pleasure.
43:25
Yeah. My guess is she'll come to me
43:27
when I am not prepared at all. And I will say I talk about this
43:32
every day. I live and breathe intimacy sex.
43:36
Yeah, all of this. When she came to me about sex
43:40
and was literally like, what is sex?
43:42
I was like, I just didn't know what to do.
43:47
This was two years ago and I was like.
43:50
So she was young, she was like 9 or. 9 I was like, I wasn't
43:55
prepared for this conversation and like I ended up getting into
44:00
like intimacy and pleasure and relationships and I remember
44:05
calling my sister who's got three kids by the way, and
44:08
they're all younger. So like I'm always the first one
44:11
kind of going to. Experience.
44:12
It and I was like, Oh my God, I didn't know what to say.
44:15
Like I talk about this every day and I didn't know what to say
44:18
and I'm like this and my sister was like, but you never actually
44:21
told her what sex was. Oh my gosh, it's like a good
44:24
point that I never thought about.
44:26
She's like, you basically talked about all the mechanics of
44:30
everything else, but not what actual sex is.
44:33
So then I was like, Oh my God, you're right.
44:35
It was a weekend event. I was like Part 2 kid.
44:39
And that's when we got into like penetrative sex, anal sex, oral
44:43
sex. And then I also talked to her,
44:46
too, about you're about to enter a time in your life where people
44:51
are going to start touching you a lot, a lot more.
44:54
This is that age where boys are going to snap your bra strap.
44:58
Everybody's testing boundaries. And I said, and people are going
45:02
to make comments about your body.
45:04
It's the reality of what middle school and high school are.
45:09
And it's probably worse. Yeah.
45:12
With porn and social media and everything else that's so
45:15
accessible. And I said it's important to
45:17
know that you can say no to literally anything.
45:21
This is what this is. And if somebody is asking for
45:24
this, then that is something you have to think hard about.
45:28
And I said, at some point you will decide this is something
45:32
that you want to do. And when that time comes, I want
45:35
you to be comfortable with that. But I would also like you to
45:39
come talk to me because we never prepared for what that means for
45:43
you and what that looks like for you.
45:46
I don't want to scare her off of intimacy and be like, intimacy
45:50
is bad. I'm like, at some point you're
45:51
going to be like, I actually do want to kiss this boy, or I
45:54
actually do want to let this boy touch me or girl or whoever you
45:58
decide. Yeah.
45:58
So I just need it. Oh, so I can?
46:01
Help you, I know. And it's that balance of like
46:03
you're building trust for years before it even comes up.
46:06
But at least you know she'll ask you questions.
46:08
Oh, yeah, And we've already had conversations on unpredictable
46:11
friends and peer pressure. And you might end up having a
46:16
friend who's like, come over for a sleepover, and the next thing
46:18
you know, you're sneaking out of that sleepover and ended up at a
46:21
boy's house and now you don't want to be there.
46:23
It's like there are all these things.
46:25
That scenarios that can happen. So I grew up in Ireland and I
46:30
went to an all girls school. So like some of the things
46:34
you're describing are just experiences I never had.
46:36
Like no one ever snapped my bra, thank God, thank God.
46:39
But you know, girls can be cruel to comments on bodies are
46:42
common. And just knowing that it's going
46:44
to happen I think helps you to prepare for it because the shock
46:48
of it happening is sometimes so much more extreme.
46:51
Like you get caught in the shock because you never knew it was a
46:53
possibility. Yeah.
46:54
And we've already had to navigate some tricky
46:57
conversations that I'm not going to share because it's her
46:59
personal information. Yeah.
47:00
Like we've had to navigate stuff at the school that I was like
47:04
fifth grade. Like, we're already having to
47:07
navigate this. And yeah, you want to put your
47:09
kid in like a bubble and not let them.
47:12
But your kid, as they get older, their circle of influence only
47:17
gets larger and starts pushing you out.
47:19
And so while you are their complete circle of influence,
47:23
try to influence them in the best, most proactive way that
47:27
you can, and in a way that when you are not as important to them
47:32
in their circle of influence, that they will still come to you
47:36
as an expert in their life. Because there will come a point
47:40
where she won't come to me in the same way that she does now.
47:44
And as long as she knows nothing's going to surprise me,
47:47
nothing's going to shock me. I have lived too many lives at
47:49
this point. There's literally nothing that
47:51
could surprise me so. We hope, we hope now you're
47:56
prepared for all of those things.
47:58
That's really good advice, that as they get older, their circle
48:01
is much larger and you're pushed out.
48:02
What other advice do you have for kinky relationship couples?
48:07
Kinky parents who sometimes it sounds like your dynamic is in
48:10
the bedroom only. We didn't really get into it in
48:12
this episode, but I already know I want to have you back on.
48:15
Do you have any advice for people who might have 24/7
48:18
dynamics? So we do have a 24/7.
48:21
Dynamic. Oh OK, I do.
48:22
This needs to be longer than an hour.
48:24
I am open. So we navigate that.
48:26
So I actually had this question come up at one of these mom
48:30
groups where I talked about like CNC, I love CNC, I love for use,
48:35
big fans of that. And she was like, Oh my gosh.
48:39
But what if he wants to do it and your children are there?
48:42
And I was like, well, we're adults.
48:44
We both know the appropriate time and place to do new things.
48:50
Yeah. I think most folks who are
48:53
living a 24 who have children know that life gets in the way
48:58
and there's a time and place. If you aren't living a 24/7 and
49:03
because you have children, you're like, I can't live a
49:05
24/7. You can.
49:06
There just has to be something built into your dynamic where
49:09
you both know how to be flexible, when you need to be
49:14
flexible, and how to do it in a way that is appropriate for
49:20
everybody around you. And I think that comes down to
49:23
researching and educating yourself enough about kink that
49:27
you're not going to bring in non consenting people.
49:31
And you're not going to do that with your dynamic if you're
49:33
doing it correctly and the way you should be doing it.
49:36
You're not going to do that with even adults who aren't wanting
49:39
to be witness involved. In Yeah.
49:42
You're doing, I've seen a lot of those, like, Reels on Instagram.
49:45
And I think it's a lot of kind of shock value of like, you
49:47
know, someone being LED with a leash down like a street and
49:51
stuff like that. And I think that's more shock
49:55
than like, what real people are doing on a regular basis.
50:00
Yeah. Having that respect.
50:02
Now, if you were to ask my daughter who makes the decisions
50:07
and the relationship, she'll be like, dad makes the decisions.
50:09
And I'm like, that's what you think?
50:12
Because you do have the evenness or the equality of it.
50:15
But her perception is, oh, Dad makes the decision.
50:18
Because dad is organically A dominant personality, so that is
50:22
something I have to navigate. Then as just a woman raising a
50:26
daughter and we literally just had this conversation.
50:28
I'm like, that might be the perception, but when it comes to
50:32
actual decisions that matter, not just day-to-day dumb stuff.
50:37
It's like the decisions are made together and I do have a voice.
50:41
And I asked, I'm like, well, what happens if I say no?
50:44
And she was like, well, then he listens to you.
50:46
I'm like, well then you see that it doesn't.
50:48
Isn't it funny how children just think the end decision is the
50:52
decision, but like you've just gone through like, well, you
50:54
were there for the whole process, actually saw the entire
50:56
decision making process happen and I said no and then it was
50:59
no. And so as far as like doing
51:01
stuff like any sort of bondage impact or any of that, we just
51:05
have to get really creative. We go outside, we have a shed,
51:09
so we'll go into the shed. I just did a reel on this.
51:12
Like as a parent, I have most of my sex during the day.
51:15
Like I am doing the kinkiest, weirdest shit on a random 9:00
51:19
AM, like bright daylight out because that's what works with
51:23
our schedule. And I think that parents get
51:25
really hard on themselves on like, Oh my gosh, everything's
51:28
so hard right now. I can't do anything right now.
51:29
And it's like, that's such a short season of your life.
51:32
Like maybe not in this six month period can you have a lot of
51:36
active impact play sessions, but the next six months after that,
51:40
maybe your kid gets involved with something or like a
51:42
schedule shifts or whatever you find the time to do it.
51:46
I love that because I think no matter who you are, it's so easy
51:49
to just think, whatever my reality is right now, that's the
51:52
rest of my life. And it's awful.
51:54
I'm not a parent. I just mean, like, I really do
51:56
sympathize with people who do feel that way because I'm sure
51:59
one of the biggest commitments in your life as a child is
52:02
having a child and then taking care of them and being there.
52:04
And like, you do sometimes let go of a part of yourself.
52:07
Yeah. And to your point, sometimes
52:08
it's just for a little bit. Things change.
52:10
A little bit. Hey, I mean our dynamic has
52:13
ebbed and flowed. We have been together for nine
52:16
years and basically doing a dynamic from very early on and
52:22
it ebbs and flows. There are sometimes in our life
52:25
where it's like, Oh my gosh, we're doing so many kinky
52:27
things. We're going to sex clubs, we're
52:29
like going to lifestyle events. And then like we go through like
52:33
a six month dry spell of just regular kind of maintenance sex
52:36
or maintenance spanking or like a few things here and there
52:39
because life gets in the way. Like life happens and I think as
52:43
long as you're OK with it and then like kind of meeting each
52:45
other too, I'm sure you've dealt with this too is because you're
52:48
so open about being a kink expert and stuff.
52:50
People think you're just having this like super kinky life all
52:53
the time, all the time. Sex comes easy or communicating
52:57
comes easy, and it doesn't always come easy.
53:00
And it kills me, but because I used to have guilt, I'm like, I
53:04
felt almost like a fraud because I was like, how the fuck did I
53:07
mess up this communication piece when that's all I talk about?
53:11
But I am guilty too, because I have feelings of big feelings.
53:14
Yeah, and sometimes they get in the way of the communication
53:17
piece. Of it and I've dealt with like
53:18
hormone challenges. I had a partial hysterectomy a
53:21
few years ago and like that fucks up my sex life too.
53:25
And also, you know, I'm not the same person I was when we first
53:28
got together. When we first got together, I
53:29
was like 26, almost 27. Like you're just a different
53:32
sexual being in your mid 20s. You are in your mid 30s.
53:36
Like I used to take impact, play like a champ.
53:39
I could just be bruised up and down, no issues, and now I'm
53:43
like, let's do some station play instead.
53:46
I am so glad I'm not the only one.
53:48
My 20s were also like that. I tell my boyfriend now because
53:51
we just met like 9 months ago. I'm like I used to be a hard
53:53
player. Like I'm not a baby, I just
53:56
happen to be 1 now, you know? And navigating that is tricky.
54:01
Well, and also the time of your month.
54:03
Yes, talked a lot more about this too.
54:04
Is like certain times of the month I can handle so much more
54:08
than I can other times in the month.
54:10
And because I don't have a period, I suck at tracking when
54:13
the times of the month are. I'm sure they change too though,
54:16
so like it's. Not a change.
54:18
And I'm having to do some hormone support now.
54:21
And so the net changes stuff and sometimes I don't even know.
54:24
All of a sudden we'll like, I'll be like, Oh yeah, like we've
54:26
been talking and all this freakiness and like, I have all
54:29
these things to test and then like we get halfway through and
54:31
I'm like. I relate so hard to this and
54:34
this is like coming from a 37 year old without a child.
54:37
Just that like life gets busy, it gets tiring.
54:40
I hate to admit this, but sometimes I'm like, I'd rather
54:42
be working right now. Not because I do not like my
54:45
partner, but because I'm so passionate about some other
54:47
thing. Oh yeah.
54:48
Then I'm like, can I just go do this for a little bit?
54:50
I think in my 20s I felt like I could do it all and I did, and I
54:54
gave up sleep for such thing. I don't want to do that anymore.
54:57
Same. I really like sleeping.
54:59
I'm shocked at how much I like sleeping.
55:01
Gone is the girl who could get up for like a 530 Barry's Boot
55:04
Camp class, which was a big thing in New York City.
55:07
I think it still is. Like that was my thing and no
55:10
more. I am addicted to work.
55:12
Thankfully he has a lot of hobbies.
55:14
But then that turns into like, we just see each other like
55:17
passing ships. We do have a great sex life.
55:19
It dips and ebbs and flows like everybody else.
55:22
But sex has always kind of been our center.
55:24
But then that's a double edged sword because it's like, well I
55:26
don't want sex to be our only center.
55:28
Yeah, and that's really difficult, but there are plenty
55:31
of couples who don't share any hobby at all.
55:33
Sometimes I'm like, it's OK, we have this, we have this.
55:35
But also it's about values. It's about the importance put on
55:39
intimacy and relationship. And that doesn't always have to
55:42
be your number one priority if you meet someone.
55:44
That's my theory. If you meet someone who also
55:47
values maybe security over intimacy, and you're both very
55:51
driven to find mutual security, I think that works too.
55:55
Yeah. But like, just as important as
55:56
if your value is intimacy and that's your number one priority.
55:59
It can be what you strive towards the most.
56:01
But like, obviously, the other things still matter.
56:02
Oh yes. And, you know, I'll talk to some
56:06
folks like you do. And I'm like, Oh yeah, you know,
56:08
I kind of wish that we would get do this or that.
56:11
And I'm like, well, you do all the other stuff together and I'm
56:13
like, yeah, I know. And that's because they're
56:15
coming from a place where they aren't doing that stuff and
56:18
probably wish they were doing that stuff.
56:20
I think a lot of people wish they were or at least which they
56:23
had the option or exposure to it.
56:25
Because there's a freedom and knowing you can.
56:27
Yes. OK I can't let this interview
56:29
end without answering the question I promised everyone I
56:31
was going to ask. What is slut faming?
56:33
Why is it on your cup? Tell me everything.
56:36
So I have this trademark slut fame.
56:39
Awesome. And so it's a play on slut
56:41
shaming, right? And so it's about empowering the
56:45
slut, celebrating the slut, faming the slut instead of
56:48
shaming the slut. So I actually launched this a
56:51
couple months ago. I've been working on the
56:53
trademark. I mean, I love a slut.
56:55
I am a slut like. Like I was built being a slut.
57:00
Like that's how I am behind. I took a break.
57:03
I was like, that's a young person thing.
57:05
That's not an adult thing. And then I realized you can be
57:09
an adult, stable in a relationship and a monogamous
57:12
relationship if you choose and still be a slut.
57:14
Yes, 100% amazing. It's.
57:16
Taking back the word. Yes, and so yeah, slut faming is
57:21
where that came from. I love it.
57:23
I'm so glad you have that. This has been so much fun.
57:26
As I said, like we're going to have you back on again because
57:28
we didn't even really get into the insurance and outs of your
57:30
relationship, what you enjoy, what your take on BDSM is and
57:34
kink. So yeah.
57:35
If you're parenting advice. No, I wanted that good.
57:40
And it's one of the things that I do feel like a fraud in
57:43
sometimes because I have not been a parent.
57:45
So when people come to me about that, I'm like, I actually don't
57:48
have any really lived experiences.
57:50
Whereas a lot of the other kink and things I talk about, I've at
57:54
least dabbled. I've been involved.
57:56
I've been around the block. Yeah, except with parenting.
57:58
So I appreciate you coming on. If you could leave everyone with
58:01
one last piece of advice about embracing kink, and I'm going to
58:05
make it specifically as a parent, what would you share to
58:07
other parents out there who are like, I'm kinky, but I don't
58:09
feel I can be myself right now, I say.
58:12
Give yourself grace. Give yourself grace to only be
58:16
as kinky as your life allows you right now.
58:19
And if that means that I'm a huge fan of maintenance.
58:23
Kink like maintenance spanking is what centers me.
58:27
So every Friday morning I layout three different impact tools and
58:32
I get to choose a number through 1 and 10.
58:34
And my husband will take it and we'll do a quick maintenance
58:39
spank and it grounds our dynamic.
58:41
And if that was the only thing that we did that week that did
58:45
anything with our dynamic, we had that.
58:47
And so finding what is something and the flavor of kink that you
58:51
have that you can do that is quick, has structure and can
58:56
ground you and your dynamic and your headspace that you need.
59:00
That will get you through this period of time where maybe a
59:03
full-fledged 4 hour kink session is just not in the cards for
59:08
you. Also, I guess 2 advices.
59:10
Yeah, go for it. Rich dinner and a movie if your
59:14
date night or like dinner and walking around Target.
59:16
It is cheaper to go book yourself just a hotel room even
59:22
if you're not going to stay there overnight.
59:24
Like get yourself a babysitter that can be at your house for a
59:27
few hours. Go spend 200 bucks on a hotel
59:31
room. I know that seems like a lot,
59:33
but when you add in dinner, movies, anything else that you
59:37
wanna do, if having a kinky sex life is that much of A priority
59:42
to you, make it happen in a way that you can accommodate.
59:45
And so go or find a venue. Sex clubs and lifestyle clubs
59:49
give me life sometimes and it can be your date night so that
59:53
is. A much more affordable way to
59:55
approach it is to find a venue if you're open to it.
59:58
But also, can I just double down on that?
1:00:00
Fight for it. If it's your priority, fight for
1:00:03
it. Like just invest in the hotel
1:00:05
room even once a month. If you're not going to stay the
1:00:07
night, like, you know, if you're just paying for a babysitter and
1:00:10
you just need a place where you guys can, like, safely explore
1:00:13
without the risk of children walking in, find a space.
1:00:17
Yeah. That you can do that.
1:00:18
Like, gross. Hotel sex can be really fun.
1:00:21
Wait, no, everyone loves hotel sex, right?
1:00:23
Like, you're not worried about the sheets.
1:00:25
You're not worried about anything.
1:00:26
Especially if you're not staying overnight.
1:00:27
You have to worry about literally nothing.
1:00:29
Create a wet spot on the bed. Who cares?
1:00:31
Yeah. All right, Athena, where can
1:00:33
everyone find you? Find me on my Instagram.
1:00:35
It's Athena under Score. GAIL GAYLEI have been on
1:00:40
Instagram for as long as it's existed, so I have my actual
1:00:44
name. I love that.
1:00:46
So, Athena. Athena under score.
1:00:49
GAIL Gayle And from there I have links in my bio if you want to
1:00:55
discover me different sorts of ways, but that is kind of my
1:00:58
bread and butter of where you can find me.
1:01:00
I also have a website, thesexcopywriter.com.
1:01:03
I still do consulting. So if you're listening as a
1:01:05
professional who needs some consulting on copy edits or you
1:01:09
know, marketing sex toy like product review type stuff, hit
1:01:13
me up. Awesome, Athena, thank you so
1:01:15
much for joining. As I said, Athena will be back,
1:01:17
so if you want to hear what else Athena has to talk about, drop
1:01:20
in the comments. What you want to hear, what
1:01:21
questions you have, because we'll be having her back on
1:01:23
again soon. Thank you.
1:01:27
If you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to.
1:01:29
Subscribe Leave a review. And share it with anyone who
1:01:31
might find it interesting, and if you have any questions or
1:01:34
topics you'd like me to cover in future episodes.
1:01:36
Feel free to reach out. E-mail
1:01:38
info@thekingconsultant.com. Until next time, keep on kinking
1:01:42
on.