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Is Math Anxiety Making You Bad At Money? · She's On The Money

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Speaker 1: Hello, my name's Santasha Nabananga Bamblet. I'm a proud yr
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Speaker 1: the Order Kerney Whoalbury and a waddery woman. And before
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Speaker 1: we get started on She's on the Money podcast, I
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Speaker 1: would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land
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Speaker 1: of which this podcast is recorded on a wondery country,
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Speaker 1: acknowledging the elders, the ancestors and the next generation coming
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Speaker 1: through as this podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing
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Speaker 1: and the storytelling of you to make a difference for
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Speaker 1: today and lasting impact for tomorrow.
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Speaker 2: Let's get into it. She's on the Money.
0:36
Speaker 3: She's on the Money.
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Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to She's on the Money podcast for
1:00
Speaker 2: millennials who want financial freedom. Now VI, I ask, have
1:04
Speaker 2: you ever found yourself saying something along the lines of
1:07
Speaker 2: I'm not a maths person, I'm bad at money, I'm
1:10
Speaker 2: scared of maths. Even yeah, I think I've said all
1:14
Speaker 2: of those things. I think I'm going to diagnose you
1:16
Speaker 2: with maths anxiety. Oh my gosh, thank you for that diagnosis.
1:19
Speaker 2: I can now live my life free with the diagnosis.
1:22
Speaker 2: That makes sense perfect. It doesn't mean that you're bad
1:25
Speaker 2: at money necessarily but today we're going to be looking
1:27
Speaker 2: at it. I get diagnosed with ADHD legitimately, and that
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Speaker 2: does make me bad with money. So well, that's probably
1:34
Speaker 2: a whole episode in itself. He's a whole episode in itself.
1:37
Speaker 2: And so the maths anxiety I'm sure isn't doing you
1:39
Speaker 2: any favors. But here we go. Why are we talking
1:41
Speaker 2: about this today? B I think it is a very
1:43
Speaker 2: important topic to talk about. Yeah, that's why. No, that
1:46
Speaker 2: makes sense, but honestly, talk about it. I feel like
1:50
Speaker 2: this topic has come from the conversations I've been having
1:52
Speaker 2: in our DMS with our community recently, because so many
1:55
Speaker 2: of you just feel so overwhelmed when you look at
1:58
Speaker 2: your budget, or when you look at money, or when
2:00
Speaker 2: you're trying to work out your bank account. And I
2:02
Speaker 2: feel like so many times the crux of it when
2:05
Speaker 2: we actually have the conversation, isn't that you're worried about
2:08
Speaker 2: using software. It's not about the budget. It's just that
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Speaker 2: you feel so overwhelmed with the numbers of it. And
2:13
Speaker 2: the reality is finance and being good at money has
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Speaker 2: nothing to do with numbers and everything to do with psychology.
2:21
Speaker 2: Because we all have a calculator on our phone, right,
2:24
Speaker 2: Like we all can use a calculator because they made
2:27
Speaker 2: us buy those expensive ones when we went to school
2:29
Speaker 2: and carry them around as though, Oh, if you don't
2:32
Speaker 2: use this calculator, how are you going to live in
2:34
Speaker 2: your life not knowing that an iPhone would literally have
2:37
Speaker 2: way more power than literally anything that came out of
2:40
Speaker 2: the nineties. But I digress. I think it's just so
2:44
Speaker 2: important to understand that so many of us have maths
2:47
Speaker 2: anxiety and number anxiety, and that can actually play into
2:51
Speaker 2: us assuming that we'll be terrible at money, when in reality,
2:54
Speaker 2: it's got nothing to do with that. And just because
2:57
Speaker 2: you have decided not to, you know, study or work
2:59
Speaker 2: in something that maths heavy, doesn't mean that you don't
3:01
Speaker 2: know what you're talking about. Like, at the end of
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Speaker 2: the day, I think we can all wrap our heads
3:05
Speaker 2: around one plus one equals too, and I, my friend,
3:07
Speaker 2: will teach you the rest like I've got the rest.
3:09
Speaker 2: I'll teach you about investing. I'll teach you it in
3:11
Speaker 2: a way that makes sense for you. But at the
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Speaker 2: end of the day, most of us bury our head
3:16
Speaker 2: in the sand when it comes to money, because honestly,
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Speaker 2: it just feels overwhelming and uninspiring, and so many of
3:22
Speaker 2: us will tell ourselves the narrative like I've never been
3:25
Speaker 2: good at numbers, or I've never been good at money.
3:26
Speaker 2: I've never been good at all of these beings. It's
3:29
Speaker 2: because it's about psychology. Think about your friends who are
3:32
Speaker 2: really good at saving beck. Are they mathematicians? No, they
3:36
Speaker 2: probably just have their heads screwed on and they know
3:38
Speaker 2: what their goals are. We think about the people who have,
3:40
Speaker 2: you know, really high incomes that aren't good at money.
3:44
Speaker 2: So we don't need cos and ten and sin. Oh
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Speaker 2: you remember all of those. I'm so smart you did,
3:51
Speaker 2: Thank you. You don't actually need those because they have
3:53
Speaker 2: nothing to do with you creating financial security and getting
3:57
Speaker 2: your budget and cash flow slaughted and putting yourself in
3:59
Speaker 2: their best possible position. So I want to talk about
4:02
Speaker 2: it today because genuinely, maths is not money, and money
4:05
Speaker 2: is not maths. Money is psychology, all right, So I guess, like,
4:09
Speaker 2: on the back of that, what does math anxiety actually
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Speaker 2: look like for people? Panic, overwhelmed, that pet in your
4:15
Speaker 2: stomach or you know that lump in your throat. Yeah,
4:18
Speaker 2: anxiety in general, it shows up when you're asked to
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Speaker 2: solve a maths problem on the spot. I get that
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Speaker 2: anxiety when someone asks me what my times tables are
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Speaker 2: because I was never good at rote learning, so I
4:27
Speaker 2: just didn't learn them properly. Yellow. Sometimes I work in
4:29
Speaker 2: my best friend's coffee cut right. Yeah, yeah, and safety beach.
4:32
Speaker 2: You guys might know or calculating the change. I say,
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Speaker 2: you know, this is five dollars seventy. Someone gives me
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Speaker 2: ten dollars and then another dollar. Well the help, No,
4:41
Speaker 2: they don't well know if that will help. I don't
4:44
Speaker 2: know if I don't know if you're trying to trick me.
4:47
Speaker 2: But that's technically that would help because I can see
4:49
Speaker 2: where they're going. It was five dollars seventy and they
4:52
Speaker 2: wanted a five dollar note. That totally and then they
4:55
Speaker 2: wanted a few cents. Yeah on the spot. No, it's
4:57
Speaker 2: not overwhelming. It is something helped me. You should just
5:00
Speaker 2: get a calculator that you put beside the register. I think,
5:03
Speaker 2: of course, that would really help. I think it's really
5:05
Speaker 2: important as well to just like talk about this as
5:07
Speaker 2: a normal thing, because how many of us experience this,
5:10
Speaker 2: but then feel like if we talked about it, we'd
5:12
Speaker 2: come across a silly or dumb or like not in
5:14
Speaker 2: an intelligent human being. Yeah, why would you know how
5:18
Speaker 2: to do something if it's not part of your curriculum?
5:21
Speaker 2: Why would you know how to consistently be good at
5:23
Speaker 2: money and budgeting if we've never learnt before? Becky, if
5:26
Speaker 2: I sent you into a doctor surgery and said you're
5:28
Speaker 2: the doctor today, how could you do that job? Well,
5:31
Speaker 2: I'd give it a go. You give it a go,
5:33
Speaker 2: but I wouldn't known, You wouldn't know, you'd just be
5:35
Speaker 2: making it up. Be a tiny baby exactly. If somebody
5:38
Speaker 2: sent me into their job as a potter, I'd like
5:40
Speaker 2: walk in and be like, I don't know how to
5:41
Speaker 2: make pops, but I don't know how to do this right.
5:44
Speaker 2: I think it looks sexy like I've always wanted to do,
5:47
Speaker 2: you know, like that scene out of Ghost where you
5:48
Speaker 2: can like create a big oas and it's a centual experience.
5:52
Speaker 2: I'd mess it up here in two seconds. You know,
5:54
Speaker 2: I don't know how to do that because I've had
5:56
Speaker 2: no practice in it. You know how you get good
5:57
Speaker 2: at that you practice in it. I haven't practiced money.
6:01
Speaker 2: How are you going to be good at it? Exactly
6:03
Speaker 2: right before we go any Further, though, I do want
6:06
Speaker 2: to acknowledge that there is a genuine learning disability that
6:09
Speaker 2: makes it very difficult. It's like dyslexia, but it's called
6:12
Speaker 2: dyscalcula ah, and it's when you just really struggle to
6:16
Speaker 2: comprehend numbers. Today, we're not talking about that. We are
6:20
Speaker 2: talking about math's anxiety, which is more of a psychological
6:23
Speaker 2: hurdle than a neurological one. And I think if you're
6:26
Speaker 2: suffering from that, I can't help you in that aspect
6:28
Speaker 2: because I'm not a psychologist or a psychiatrist or working
6:31
Speaker 2: in that space. But what I do talk about is
6:33
Speaker 2: money and math's anxiety as a generalized concept that we
6:37
Speaker 2: struggle with. So I don't want people to listen to
6:39
Speaker 2: this and be like, oh, V, did you know that's
6:40
Speaker 2: a real thing? Like I do. But we're not talking
6:43
Speaker 2: about that. We're talking about people like you Beck who
6:46
Speaker 2: just gare really overwhelmed with it. But I know you
6:48
Speaker 2: have the power to do it, and I know you're
6:50
Speaker 2: smart enough and good enough and it's not hard and
6:52
Speaker 2: if I give you the right push, like you will
6:54
Speaker 2: actually flourish, right, Like, you'll be fine. But that's like
6:58
Speaker 2: everybody who's listening right, Like, I know you can do
7:00
Speaker 2: this because if I can do it, you can do it.
7:02
Speaker 2: And I know you think that I'm relatively intelligent. That's
7:04
Speaker 2: just good editing. That's just good editing, you know, true,
7:08
Speaker 2: it's just the person sitting with her twenty four seven,
7:11
Speaker 2: that's definitely true. But I feel like math's anxiety can
7:13
Speaker 2: convince you that you're bad at maths or you're bad
7:16
Speaker 2: at money and anything that involves numbers. And I just
7:20
Speaker 2: think it's really important to know that there is legitimate research,
7:23
Speaker 2: beack that tells us that you being bad at numbers
7:27
Speaker 2: has literally nothing to do with your actual ability and
7:31
Speaker 2: everything to do with the fact that you haven't learned
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Speaker 2: how to do it or you haven't been taught properly.
7:35
Speaker 2: That actually makes a lot of pretty sexy. So has
7:37
Speaker 2: there been any studies into the prevalence of math's anxiety
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Speaker 2: and how it actually plays out for people? Obviously? Yes, Like,
7:42
Speaker 2: I'm not going to come not well did, I'm going
7:44
Speaker 2: to come with the proof? Baby? So the twenty seventeen
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Speaker 2: Westpac Numeracy Study found that math's anxiety affects as many
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Speaker 2: as a third of adults and children in Australia. One
7:55
Speaker 2: very large study which was connected in the UK in
7:58
Speaker 2: twenty nineteen. It's a little bit more recent, found that
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Speaker 2: seventy seven percent of children with high levels of maths
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Speaker 2: anxiety achieved average to high grades in the subject. Ah
8:08
Speaker 2: is that good. Yeah, but you're doing really well, but
8:11
Speaker 2: you're anxious.
8:12
Speaker 3: Yeah.
8:12
Speaker 2: Maybe they're just like me and they're just anxious about everything.
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Speaker 2: So in twenty twelve, a USA study explored what was
8:18
Speaker 2: happening in the brain of children between the age of
8:21
Speaker 2: seven to nine while they solved a series of different
8:23
Speaker 2: maths problems. In kids with money anxiety, scans showed that
8:27
Speaker 2: the brain regions associated with processing negative emotions were hyperactive,
8:33
Speaker 2: while those that play a role in mathematical reasoning and
8:35
Speaker 2: working memory were completely unreactive. Oh that's very interesting. So
8:41
Speaker 2: that means that there is literally a link between money
8:43
Speaker 2: anxiety and negative emotions. So, no, wonder we don't want
8:46
Speaker 2: to touch it. Yeah, no, wonder you run away from it?
8:49
Speaker 2: Who wants to experience negative emotions? Yeah, that makes sense.
8:52
Speaker 2: The maths is mathing, right, math is actually mathan right now.
8:55
Speaker 2: The same study, Beck also found that the effects were
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Speaker 2: unique to the children with maths anxiety and had nothing
9:01
Speaker 2: to do with general anxiety, intelligence or reading ability. That's
9:04
Speaker 2: good to know. So it's just maths anxiety. So what
9:08
Speaker 2: I have determined from this it's a real thing, real thing,
9:11
Speaker 2: real thing. We're talking a lot of numbers here. I
9:12
Speaker 2: see it's going to a quick break and see you
9:15
Speaker 2: guys on the other side. We are back in this episode,
9:22
Speaker 2: I feel like is a happy, snappy little episode that
9:25
Speaker 2: hopefully puts a pep in your step when it comes
9:27
Speaker 2: to maths anxiety and feeling overwhelmed by numbers. I feel
9:30
Speaker 2: like so many of us experience this, and I just
9:33
Speaker 2: want to grab you and hug you and be like,
9:34
Speaker 2: it's not you, it's everyone. You're not alone. Like we
9:36
Speaker 2: all suck at maths, like I fumble at the checkout
9:39
Speaker 2: sometimes when people are like, oh, it's fifty bucks, I go,
9:41
Speaker 2: oh my god, if I even got that. Like, I
9:43
Speaker 2: feel like we all go through this, But what we
9:45
Speaker 2: should be doing is just normalizing these conversations because we
9:49
Speaker 2: can learn anything we put our minds to. And I
9:51
Speaker 2: know this is like the worst quote ever. Dumber people
9:54
Speaker 2: have dumbe better things, But do you know what I mean?
9:56
Speaker 2: Like you look at it like there are so many
9:59
Speaker 2: people in this world world who have less intelligence, but
10:02
Speaker 2: they just put themselves out there they see killing it
10:05
Speaker 2: at their game or their whatever it's going to do
10:07
Speaker 2: with intelligence. Yes. In fact, if you want like my
10:09
Speaker 2: favorite book recommendation of the moment, it's a book called
10:12
Speaker 2: Grit by Angela Duckworth. And is it about how ducks
10:16
Speaker 2: are worthy to No, it's not about how ducks are
10:18
Speaker 2: worthy too. We are you are killing me? Ducks are worthy?
10:22
Speaker 2: We like Angela Duckworth. I mean we canceling jk Rawlings,
10:25
Speaker 2: but that is okay. But essentially she wrote this book
10:28
Speaker 2: and it's about grit, and it is this really cool
10:31
Speaker 2: book about how grit is passion and perseverance for long
10:35
Speaker 2: term goals. And one way I guess to think about
10:38
Speaker 2: grit is it's not talent, it's not intelligence. It's actually
10:41
Speaker 2: about how the most successful people in this world aren't
10:46
Speaker 2: the smartest, and maybe they aren't the most talented, but
10:49
Speaker 2: they're the ones that get up and try again. And
10:52
Speaker 2: that's like that grit. I think it was twenty thirteen
10:54
Speaker 2: she did a Ted talk and that Ted talk is amazing.
10:57
Speaker 2: If you don't want to read the book, just look
10:58
Speaker 2: up grit, the power of passion and perseverance, and that
11:01
Speaker 2: Ted talk is amazing. It like makes you feel so empowered,
11:05
Speaker 2: I suppose, because it's really about this power that you
11:09
Speaker 2: have of perseverance and actually standing up and just going
11:12
Speaker 2: you know what, I'm just going to try again, because
11:14
Speaker 2: that's what creates the most successful people in the entire world.
11:17
Speaker 2: Nothing to do with intelligence. So if you're telling yourself
11:20
Speaker 2: this narrative of I'm not smart enough or I'm not
11:22
Speaker 2: good enough, it actually has nothing to do with that. Sure,
11:25
Speaker 2: So when I say dumber people have done better things,
11:28
Speaker 2: that's what I mean because they've probably got that grit.
11:31
Speaker 2: And I feel like if anyone was to compliment me,
11:35
Speaker 2: I would love it if people said, she's real gritty.
11:38
Speaker 2: You seem like you've read that book. When you were
11:40
Speaker 2: explaining that book to me, I was like, I'm obsessed
11:42
Speaker 2: with it. You've read it, and it shows, babe. It's
11:44
Speaker 2: honestly a really good book about I guess, just the
11:47
Speaker 2: power of perseverance. Because you know, I'm not silly. I
11:50
Speaker 2: am relatively intelligent. Let's be honest. I'm a bloody nerd,
11:54
Speaker 2: but like I'm not the most intelligent person in the
11:56
Speaker 2: entire world. I'm not the smartest, I'm not the funniest,
11:58
Speaker 2: I'm not the anything. I'm not eve the best at finance,
12:01
Speaker 2: I'm not the best podcaster, I'm not anything debatable. Well
12:04
Speaker 2: I know, but I'm genuinely not. And I'm okay with
12:07
Speaker 2: that because that means there's heaps of people I can
12:09
Speaker 2: learn from. But also being gritty means I will continue
12:13
Speaker 2: to make content. I will continue to do this stuff,
12:15
Speaker 2: and like you can do that too, And I just
12:17
Speaker 2: don't want people to feel less than because they aren't,
12:20
Speaker 2: you know, they're feeling, oh, I wasn't that smart. At school,
12:23
Speaker 2: we all have narratives of teachers telling us that we're
12:25
Speaker 2: not good enough, or that we aren't going to add
12:27
Speaker 2: up to anything, or that you know, that's the wrong
12:29
Speaker 2: career choice. But like, it doesn't matter what your capability is,
12:33
Speaker 2: or what your intelligence is, or even what talent you have.
12:37
Speaker 2: You could be the best singer in the entire world,
12:38
Speaker 2: but you don't have the confidence, so nobody ever finds
12:41
Speaker 2: that out right, right, Like, you could be the most
12:43
Speaker 2: intelligent person in the entire world, but you're, you know,
12:46
Speaker 2: so hard on yourself that you never get to capitalize
12:49
Speaker 2: on the fact that you're the most intelligent person in
12:52
Speaker 2: the entire world. Yeah, yeah, I totally agree with that.
12:54
Speaker 2: So I just think it's so smart and so I guess,
12:57
Speaker 2: you know, we can go back into the questions that
12:59
Speaker 2: you've got for me. But I'm just so passionate about
13:02
Speaker 2: this topic because I don't want you to be stressed.
13:04
Speaker 2: I want you to be empowered, Like I want to
13:05
Speaker 2: have the best days ever. And I know that you
13:08
Speaker 2: can do it because I can do it. Beck can
13:10
Speaker 2: do it, Like you just need the education. Yeah yeah,
13:12
Speaker 2: I agree with that. So I guess, like prevention is
13:15
Speaker 2: the best cure. I want to know how does it
13:17
Speaker 2: all develop, so we can kind of like nip it
13:19
Speaker 2: in the butt and see the signs early. It's obviously
13:22
Speaker 2: super common for maths and anxiety to start when you're
13:24
Speaker 2: in primary school because that's when you start learning about maths,
13:28
Speaker 2: with some studies finding that it can actually start in
13:30
Speaker 2: kids as young as six years old. There does bambini
13:33
Speaker 2: still funny babies? I prayed one, Ah, I shouldn't feeling
13:37
Speaker 2: five or six. Oh my gosh.
13:38
Speaker 1: No.
13:39
Speaker 2: I feel like so many of us, as I said before,
13:41
Speaker 2: have had bad teachers or you know, unsupportive environments, but
13:45
Speaker 2: all of that can be changed. Like, I'm so passionate
13:47
Speaker 2: about this, and we really should do another episode on
13:50
Speaker 2: money Stories. So if you go all the way back
13:52
Speaker 2: to season one, episode one, that was my first podcast,
13:55
Speaker 2: it was called Money Stories. And the reason it was
13:57
Speaker 2: my first podcast is because that's what I'm most passionate about. Like,
14:01
Speaker 2: we can't change the past. We can't change the environments
14:04
Speaker 2: we had, the people that supported us. We can't change
14:06
Speaker 2: you know, the education we were given, the privilege that
14:09
Speaker 2: we had. But what we can do is change the future.
14:12
Speaker 2: Like you have no control over what's happened to you,
14:14
Speaker 2: and that's why we shouldn't crucify ourselves based on our
14:17
Speaker 2: past mistakes or based on what we did or didn't
14:20
Speaker 2: have access to. But there are so many amazing people
14:23
Speaker 2: in our community who have proved to us that you
14:26
Speaker 2: can just change your money story by choice. I'm not
14:28
Speaker 2: saying it's easy, but you can change your money story
14:31
Speaker 2: by choice, and that is such a beautiful thing. And
14:33
Speaker 2: I just think that if you did have somebody who
14:36
Speaker 2: wasn't the most supportive or the best environment, like you
14:39
Speaker 2: can become good at something if you choose to be
14:41
Speaker 2: good at it. It's epic. Maybe you inherited a whole
14:44
Speaker 2: heap of baggage from your parents. We obviously have our
14:47
Speaker 2: Money Diaries episode where it always asks can you tell
14:50
Speaker 2: us a little bit more about your money story? One
14:52
Speaker 2: because it's my favorite question, But two it's so pervy
14:54
Speaker 2: and it's so beautiful that we've got this community that
14:57
Speaker 2: want to share with us. But we talk to people
14:59
Speaker 2: about the baggage they inherit from their parents, or their
15:02
Speaker 2: circumstances or traumatic events they've been through, or we even
15:06
Speaker 2: talk to people about their privilege, like we have talked
15:08
Speaker 2: to people who have been given it on a silver
15:10
Speaker 2: platter done nothing with it. Like it's wild what your
15:14
Speaker 2: money story is made up of. I'm obsessed with it.
15:16
Speaker 2: Other things spec like gender stereotypes are also really major
15:21
Speaker 2: sources of negative beliefs about money and maths, especially in
15:24
Speaker 2: girls and women who tend to experience math and anxiety
15:27
Speaker 2: way more than boys do, even though they perform just
15:31
Speaker 2: as well in the subject, Like girls aren't inherently worse
15:33
Speaker 2: at maths. No, but it's not a girl, it's ourpic.
15:38
Speaker 2: I'm not a finance bro. Yeah, yeah, I'm so glad
15:41
Speaker 2: that we're veering away from that narrative and hopefully that
15:44
Speaker 2: will not be a common stat in the future. I agree,
15:47
Speaker 2: But isn't it wild? It's also kind of like, I
15:49
Speaker 2: guess this is another left field part of the conversation,
15:52
Speaker 2: just even the way that you know, hear it, she's
15:54
Speaker 2: on the money. We create content is illustrated in the media,
15:57
Speaker 2: like anytime anything happens Victoria divine and it's always fluffy,
16:02
Speaker 2: and it's always like her and hergem. You already have girls.
16:05
Speaker 2: But like if somebody who was male did the same
16:07
Speaker 2: stuff that we did, it would be looked at very,
16:10
Speaker 2: very differently somehow. Because I am a female who cares
16:13
Speaker 2: about her nails and her hair and wants to have,
16:16
Speaker 2: you know, rainbow technic color nails, and I want to
16:18
Speaker 2: get my eyelash extensions and I really enjoy those things.
16:21
Speaker 2: That means that I'm probably not as good at money
16:24
Speaker 2: or finance as you are, right, Like, there's just this
16:27
Speaker 2: inherent underlying idea that I Am not going to be
16:31
Speaker 2: as good at that. And it's wild when I meet
16:33
Speaker 2: people in the wild. It's wild when I meet people
16:36
Speaker 2: and they're like, oh, what do you do? Go, I've
16:38
Speaker 2: got a podcast and they go, cute, what's your real job?
16:42
Speaker 2: I go, okay, cool, like I also own a mortgage
16:45
Speaker 2: broken company. They're like, oh, really, do you just work
16:47
Speaker 2: from home? Like it's always undermined, it's always underplayed because
16:52
Speaker 2: there's this stereotype that I don't fit of somebody who
16:55
Speaker 2: might own a successful finance company. Yeah, that's a real shame.
17:00
Speaker 2: I don't even care. Like I could not care less.
17:02
Speaker 2: It's actually comical, Like, I know sometimes I work from home,
17:06
Speaker 2: but my team they work from an office. Yeah, and
17:08
Speaker 2: they kind of like bat their eyes and they're like,
17:10
Speaker 2: what a team. It doesn't have a compute what It's
17:14
Speaker 2: my favorite thing in the entire world. But I just
17:16
Speaker 2: think that gender stereotypes are obviously this massive source of anxiety,
17:20
Speaker 2: and they shouldn't be because we're not less than Ye've
17:22
Speaker 2: just been fed to this patriarchal idea that women shouldn't
17:27
Speaker 2: be good at things, when in reality, we know that
17:30
Speaker 2: women are better investors than men. There is so much
17:33
Speaker 2: research out there to say that if we just divide
17:36
Speaker 2: the genders and look at who's a better investor, women
17:38
Speaker 2: are because we take more time, more energy to understand
17:42
Speaker 2: the circumstances. We are less likely to be responsive. We're
17:46
Speaker 2: more likely to think about the circumstances. Sure makes us
17:50
Speaker 2: better at investing. I like, that's a strong statement, and
17:53
Speaker 2: I'm going to agree with having absolutely no knowledge on
17:57
Speaker 2: that way. But women are more likely to tell themselves
17:59
Speaker 2: that they're not good at it because they don't know
18:01
Speaker 2: anything about it. They're not smart enough. That is a
18:03
Speaker 2: real shame, and it's fake, fake news, fake news. Everyone.
18:06
Speaker 2: We're canceling it because you're a really smart girl and
18:09
Speaker 2: I believe in you. Ye. But essentially all of these
18:11
Speaker 2: things that we're talking about today are linked to your
18:13
Speaker 2: story and a linked to the narrative that you tell
18:16
Speaker 2: yourself as an adult, and they actually don't reflect your
18:20
Speaker 2: ability at all. You could actually be amazing at maths
18:23
Speaker 2: and you're thinking about this going, oh wow, that's another
18:26
Speaker 2: part of my life, Like I'm not so good at comprehension,
18:28
Speaker 2: or I'm not good at making friends, or I'm not
18:30
Speaker 2: good at whatever. It is. Like, you can be if
18:33
Speaker 2: you want to be. I love that you can if
18:35
Speaker 2: you want to be. How do we address it? It's
18:38
Speaker 2: not a life sentence like you stuck with maths anxiety forever.
18:43
Speaker 2: To be honest, I really think it's about education, because
18:45
Speaker 2: most of the time we feel anxious about something, or
18:48
Speaker 2: we're scared about something, or we don't want to engage
18:52
Speaker 2: in something, or we're just a little bit apprehensive because
18:54
Speaker 2: we don't know enough about the circumstance. Right, Like I
18:57
Speaker 2: get social anxiety, and a lot of the time, thing
19:00
Speaker 2: that alleviates that social anxiety is if I get told
19:03
Speaker 2: who's going to be there where it is, I'm far
19:05
Speaker 2: less anxious if I'm going somewhere I've already been because
19:07
Speaker 2: you already know the circumstances. And basically that's education, right
19:12
Speaker 2: So like education makes me feel more comfortable. Same with maths.
19:15
Speaker 2: You usually are going to feel overwhelmed or anxious about
19:19
Speaker 2: something if you don't have enough information about that. But
19:22
Speaker 2: if I set you down and gave you all the
19:24
Speaker 2: information that you needed. I'm not saying the maths anxiety
19:27
Speaker 2: is going anywhere, but I promise it will be much
19:29
Speaker 2: less because you feel a bit more empowered in that circumstance.
19:32
Speaker 2: So I guess the first step is to challenge your
19:35
Speaker 2: personal beliefs about yourself and your abilities and maybe ask
19:38
Speaker 2: yourself what are you good at? And I promise there
19:40
Speaker 2: are going to be things like, there's so much to
19:43
Speaker 2: this where I know that if you are anxious or
19:46
Speaker 2: you don't have enough confidence, you just go, oh, I
19:48
Speaker 2: don't want to have too many tickets on myself. Well
19:50
Speaker 2: that's really lame. But honestly, having a low opinion of
19:54
Speaker 2: yourself it's not modest, it's not sexy. It's actually self destruction.
19:58
Speaker 2: And I think so many times we try to be
19:59
Speaker 2: modest and go oh, like I don't want to you know,
20:01
Speaker 2: look like I'm pumping up my own tires. Why it's
20:07
Speaker 2: destructive to pretend you're not as good at things as
20:10
Speaker 2: you are. I mean, there's obviously the flip side of that,
20:13
Speaker 2: where you have a God complex and you think you're
20:15
Speaker 2: amazing at absolutely everything, and like watching those train wrecks
20:18
Speaker 2: of the auditions on Australian Idol, which are one of
20:20
Speaker 2: my favorite things in the entire world, you're just like, ah,
20:25
Speaker 2: that's a lot thank God for God complex. Yes, sometimes yeah,
20:28
Speaker 2: thank God because it provides me with a lot of entertainment.
20:31
Speaker 2: But at the end of the day, you saying what
20:33
Speaker 2: you're good at is actually just really constructive and really
20:37
Speaker 2: helpful and helps you leverage into other parts of your life.
20:40
Speaker 2: You might be really good at conversations. You might be
20:43
Speaker 2: really good at one or another thing, and like that's
20:46
Speaker 2: not a bad thing to say, Oh I'm not good
20:48
Speaker 2: at that, or I am good at that. It's actually
20:50
Speaker 2: a really good thing to just be real with yourself,
20:52
Speaker 2: because we can't learn and grow if we don't know
20:55
Speaker 2: where we're learning and growing from. So take, for example,
20:58
Speaker 2: like sport or writing. How do you react when you
21:00
Speaker 2: make a mistake doing something that you're really confident with?
21:03
Speaker 2: You go, oh my god, whatever, that doesn't make sense.
21:06
Speaker 2: If you're really good at sport, beck and you like,
21:09
Speaker 2: you know, we're playing tennis and you're really really good
21:11
Speaker 2: at tennis and you miss a swing, you're probably just
21:14
Speaker 2: gonna shrug it off and try again, right, because you're
21:16
Speaker 2: actually really good at that thing. But if you were
21:18
Speaker 2: just learning tennis for the very first time and you
21:20
Speaker 2: miss a swing, you'd be like, I can't do this.
21:22
Speaker 2: I suck. This isn't good, Like I'm the worst at this,
21:25
Speaker 2: I'm no good, you haven't had enough practice, and like
21:27
Speaker 2: that's basically it. But when you make a mistake with maths,
21:30
Speaker 2: maybe you really punish yourself with negative affirmations or panic right,
21:34
Speaker 2: of course.
21:35
Speaker 3: I got it wrong.
21:35
Speaker 2: I'm so bad at this. Is that helpful for anybody involved? Yeah,
21:39
Speaker 2: And you kind of think like I mustn't have the
21:40
Speaker 2: brain for this, but I'm sure you do exactly. And
21:43
Speaker 2: there's this psychological concept called reframing and I learned a
21:47
Speaker 2: lot about it when I was studying, but you can
21:50
Speaker 2: google it reframing and like lots of examples about reframing
21:53
Speaker 2: to help you. But essentially, instead of saying something like, oh,
21:56
Speaker 2: I'm not a maths person or I'm just really bad
22:00
Speaker 2: the money, you could say, oh, just experiencing some math
22:03
Speaker 2: anxiety is just making me feel a little bit overwhelmed,
22:05
Speaker 2: Like that's a much better situation to be. And maybe
22:08
Speaker 2: practicing some math skills in a fun I don't know
22:11
Speaker 2: if it can be fun. It's fun for me, but
22:13
Speaker 2: maybe just like no stress environment is probably better. Like
22:17
Speaker 2: have you done saduku or noodle or I that could
22:22
Speaker 2: be really fun to get you back into numbers and
22:24
Speaker 2: then slowly start to do things. I think that there's
22:27
Speaker 2: this misconception that you need to dive right in and
22:30
Speaker 2: take every single step. If budgeting or looking at your
22:33
Speaker 2: money situation is a bit overwhelming, back do you know
22:36
Speaker 2: what my advice is, don't do it? Don't do it.
22:40
Speaker 2: How about we just put that to the side. How
22:42
Speaker 2: about we start with just looking at your pay slip.
22:44
Speaker 2: How much money comes into your bank account each week?
22:46
Speaker 2: Did you know that? Do we tell you? No? I
22:50
Speaker 2: want to tell me that if you know that number,
22:53
Speaker 2: you're in a better position than you were yesterday when
22:56
Speaker 2: you didn't know the exact amount. And maybe that's all
22:58
Speaker 2: we do today. That's fine. Maybe tomorrow week and talk
23:01
Speaker 2: about how much you're spending on your groceries. Do you know?
23:04
Speaker 2: Maybe you don't. Maybe we can work that out. Yeah,
23:06
Speaker 2: maybe we can have a look at what your groceries
23:08
Speaker 2: look like each and every single week and you go,
23:10
Speaker 2: cheese vie. I didn't even know it was that much. Oh, beg,
23:13
Speaker 2: Is there anything you want to change in that? Yeah?
23:15
Speaker 2: I just need to maybe cut back on how many
23:17
Speaker 2: cheesecakes I'm buying or something. I do a cheesecake and
23:20
Speaker 2: you do. But it's one of those things that I
23:22
Speaker 2: think you don't need to go boots and all into this.
23:26
Speaker 2: Just take it slowly, because the slower you take it,
23:29
Speaker 2: the more it's actually going to absorb. Yep, that's why
23:32
Speaker 2: we don't do anything in intensives. At UNI, I got
23:35
Speaker 2: offered to do intensive subjects, like you know where they
23:38
Speaker 2: like take an entire semester, like twelve weeks of content
23:41
Speaker 2: and they like pump it into you in four days.
23:44
Speaker 2: So I did that to get rid of like two
23:46
Speaker 2: subjects that I really wanted to get rid of. And
23:48
Speaker 2: I was like, sweet, I'll just do this over the
23:49
Speaker 2: Christmas break. I'll sign up for two intensives. Could not
23:52
Speaker 2: tell you what I learned. Couldn't because you know what,
23:56
Speaker 2: I crammed all that information so I could do the test.
23:58
Speaker 2: At the end of the day, take it off, go home,
24:01
Speaker 2: have probably three glasses of wine. Go back the next day,
24:04
Speaker 2: do the same thing. All right, you know, do my
24:05
Speaker 2: little group project that we did over four days, submit that,
24:09
Speaker 2: Breathe a sigh of relief, wait for my result, and
24:12
Speaker 2: go oh far out glad that's over. Yeah. What did
24:14
Speaker 2: I learn? Literally nothing, because I didn't absorb anything, which
24:18
Speaker 2: is why we need to do it in small chunks
24:20
Speaker 2: over a long period of time, with things that matter
24:23
Speaker 2: to you, not with things that don't matter to you.
24:26
Speaker 2: If you're just starting your budgeting journey or just starting
24:28
Speaker 2: your money journey. Why are we talking about compound interests?
24:31
Speaker 2: Victoria does think as a real sexy But is that
24:33
Speaker 2: the best place to start, right? How do we just
24:36
Speaker 2: start with the small things? Because the small things are
24:38
Speaker 2: the foundation of financial literacy. And if we can create
24:42
Speaker 2: a really solid foundation, if you like, you know, wiggle
24:44
Speaker 2: at the top or you're like swaying and you're not sure,
24:46
Speaker 2: you're not going to fall very far because the foundations
24:49
Speaker 2: are really solid. So I think that we just need
24:51
Speaker 2: to take small steps and little steps and make sure
24:54
Speaker 2: that the system works for you. So like automatic payments
24:57
Speaker 2: might work for you for other people, they might not
24:59
Speaker 2: work for some people. Having a really good budget spreadsheet
25:03
Speaker 2: like the one in our Budget and cash Flow master
25:04
Speaker 2: class that I do, makes a lot of sense for
25:06
Speaker 2: other people, They're like, I don't want that. I just
25:09
Speaker 2: want an app that does everything for me. Educate yourself,
25:12
Speaker 2: Listen to Sheese on the Money, Go into our Facebook.
25:14
Speaker 2: It's the most supportive place in the entire world. It
25:16
Speaker 2: makes my heart seeing every single day ask questions and
25:19
Speaker 2: normalize this discussion because to me, it is so important
25:23
Speaker 2: to be having money conversations because when I talk about money,
25:26
Speaker 2: it puts you and my friends in a better position,
25:29
Speaker 2: and then when you talk about money, it kind of spreads. Yep.
25:32
Speaker 2: It's like do you remember like the phone Trees when
25:34
Speaker 2: you were younger, Phone Tree? Yeah, they had it on
25:37
Speaker 2: Legally Blonde, where like I call three people and then
25:39
Speaker 2: those three people three people. Like, that's what we're going
25:41
Speaker 2: to do with financial literacy. When you do a legally
25:44
Speaker 2: Blonde floone tree, let's try it, let's turn out to themselves.
25:47
Speaker 2: I think we're done. I think it's a really good
25:48
Speaker 2: place to leave it. I think so do. Legally Blond's
25:50
Speaker 2: a very good movie. Go and listen to it, Go
25:52
Speaker 2: and do it, and watch it. I'm such a podcast
25:55
Speaker 2: and you can listen to it if you want too.
25:58
Speaker 2: All right, have a good day, Love me on Friday.
26:01
Speaker 2: Bye bye. The advice shared on She's on the Money
26:10
Speaker 2: is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances.
26:14
Speaker 2: She's on the Money exists purely for educational purposes and
26:17
Speaker 2: should not be relied upon to make an investment or
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Speaker 2: financial decision. If you do choose to buy a financial product,
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26:27
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