Latest / The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten / Yes Women Fantasize That Men Will Change After Marriage, But Men Fantasize This Too!

Transcript

Yes Women Fantasize That Men Will Change After Marriage, But Men Fantasize This Too! · The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten

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  Hi everybody, and welcome to the doctor psych mom show.
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  Today, we're going to talk about this idea that men have where
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  they're like women want to change man.
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  After marriage blah blah. Yeah blah blah because men want
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  the same thing from women just in a different way.
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  So we will dive into that and first I have to tell you to
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  subscribe. I have cool episodes coming out
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  episodes that are out already episodes on why your wife feels
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  so overwhelmed episodes on Sex episodes on everything.
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  So anyway, so whenever this is like just zooming back for a
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  second whenever you hear one gender vilify, another gender
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  for doing something that the first gender quote never does
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  unless it's like pee standing up or, you know, like have X Y
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  chromosome or XX chromosome, you know, like I mean it's bullshit
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  and you got to kind of understand that when you're
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  consuming Zooming digital media that if you fall down rabbit
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  holes, where there is like one gender that's being vilified for
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  like some like Global human personality thing like
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  idealization of a potential spouse, then like, you know,
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  that's both genders. Like it's always both genders.
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  And I'm the biggest proponent of like there are real gender
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  differences, but they are not that macro like their it isn't
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  like just all guy. Is her jealous and controlling
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  or all women are jealous and controlling their are jealous
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  and controlling of both. There's preoccupied attachment
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  an avoidant attachment of both. There's people who struggle with
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  self esteem of both genders. So, you know, in this situation,
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  the reason that's, that's it could be its own, not just
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  podcasts its own book, obviously.
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  But forgetting that for a second, the way that that is
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  relevant to. This particular topic is like, a
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  lot of men are saying, oh, oh, men are just happy with the
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  woman that there with when they got married, they don't want her
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  to change women. On the other hand, want men to
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  get more domestic and care about chores and care about keeping it
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  clean house. And why would he?
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  Because he didn't care about that stuff before marriage
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  listening. Good point.
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  Like totally like it's very hard for a man to change.
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  Its also though not dissimilar from how men say and I hear it
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  with my own ears. I thought that after marriage,
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  she would grow. Warmer.
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  She would want open up sexually. She would try new things.
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  She would be more adventurous, etcetera.
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  Etc, etc. So both males and females.
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  So, all human beings fantasize that a partner will change after
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  marriage. Sometimes it makes a lot of
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  sense to hope this because you yourself projecting from
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  yourself. So a woman starts out, usually
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  wanting her apartment or whatever.
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  To look kind of nicer. ER, on average than a male gives
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  a shit about his apartment on average, but after having a kid
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  or getting together and getting married she cares then even more
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  about keeping a house tonight so that people can come over so
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  that she can, you know, feel proud of where she lives so that
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  she's not all cluttered and whatever.
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  Clutter, by the way, is an individual difference because
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  research shows that women actually are more affected.
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  Their mental health is more negatively affected by clutter
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  interestingly. But So, basically the woman
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  thanks. Okay.
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  I cared a little bit about my apartment before marriage.
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  Now, a cure super much about my house.
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  So even if he didn't care about his apartment at all, to the
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  point that it was a hovel before marriage.
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  He too will progress along this spectrum and he will care more
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  about his house than he did about his apartment.
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  And quite honestly, a lot of times this does happen, you
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  know, it's a homeownership sort of thing, the guy clicks into
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  whatever, he saw his dad do even if he really didn't give a shit
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  about his apartment, he does change and growth more domestic.
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  So that does Is happen. Sometimes who doesn't like a
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  Fool's errand to think that somebody will change in some
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  level as they mature and grow as a human being.
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  But to think that they're ever going to get up to the same
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  level that you're at, if you had pre-existing differences and how
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  much you value, something that is setting yourself up to fail.
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  Now let's look at the other side, the side about men, like
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  men are like well you know, like I have all these hobbies and I
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  was always going to it's like ridiculous that she thinks that
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  I'm not going to have these Hobbies after we have a baby.
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  Well Okay, like sure. But then again, people do stop
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  some of their Hobbies after they have a child, you just don't
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  have so many hours in the day. But anyway, we're men then go
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  awry is to not empathize by not thinking of the ways that they
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  hoped that their partner would change.
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  Or and this is like a real Mindbender or not change, which
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  is just a stupid. So even if the man did marry
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  somebody and thought, With this, you know, this 28 year old girl,
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  she loves to go jet, skiing to go have fun to do this.
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  And now, she's always gonna be like this.
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  She's never gonna turn it to her mother, who boat, mostly likes
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  to, you know, work and take care of her kids, you know, never
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  because we are in the Twilight Zone where she never ages, so
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  like that's just as stupid as the woman thinking that the man
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  is going to change on a dime is for the woman to man think that
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  the woman is never going to change.
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  So that's interesting in and of itself.
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  If but what I'm talking about is an even bigger more obvious
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  analogy of, when I see many males, say okay, well, she
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  doesn't want to do this and that kind of sex thing before
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  marriage, but as we grow together, as she really opens up
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  to me when she finally feels like securing committed, that's
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  when she's really going to open up both emotionally and
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  sexually. And this is usually when men are
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  with more avoidant, women, I have my podcast on avoidant
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  wives that you could listen to. So when Men who are more
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  preoccupied attachment, go back to the attachment Theory
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  podcast. These are subscriber ones.
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  When men were with more avoided women, who themselves are more
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  preoccupied, get married. They think that the woman is
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  going to grow even closer to that.
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  No, she's not. She's the same woman as before.
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  She's the same woman. I was making excuses while you
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  were dating for why you guys weren't doing anal or whatever
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  it is that you wanted to do. It's not like she's going to
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  open up and do that shit afterwards when her sex drive
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  biologically drops, that's just as crazy.
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  Is her thinking that the man is going to turn into Martha
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  Stewart when he has a ring on his finger?
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  No. So while all people generally do
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  become more home and family oriented as they grow and evolve
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  and have children most healthy people do start to focus more on
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  their family than themselves. That is a main effect, but that
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  main effect is, is only works on the pre-existing personality
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  trait, so you could get a guy who wanted to go to the gym
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  every day before he had. Kids.
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  And now he wants to go four times a week or five times a
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  week. You're not going to get a guy
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  who wants to go 0 times a week and just focus on his family.
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  But similarly if a woman was a little bit like kind of anxious
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  before marriage, let's say she's going to be really anxious after
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  kids. You know.
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  It's not like and interestingly what guys think is that it goes
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  the other way. Oh by virtue of hanging out with
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  me, I'm gonna like make her more laid-back.
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  I'm gonna you know be kind of this influence.
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  I heard have more fun. Hell no, that's just as much of
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  a crazy fantasy as for her to think that you're going to grow
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  more domestic. So, what do you do with this
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  information? It's not to solve, flagellate
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  boy, I really should have understood that people don't
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  change to that level. Would it is this to empathize
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  with your partner? So, if so, you can really take
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  this Full Throttle. So if you're somebody, that
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  wishes that you're now, when you wrecked respectively, look at
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  it. You used to say, oh no, it's
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  just my wife. I wanted me to change.
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  I never want to hurt a change. That's so rare.
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  So like you can empathize, you be like, okay what's the way in
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  which I wanted her to change? Let me do a deep dive because
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  remember all of them Mago Theory which is a key Theory
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  underpinning. How I and many others do couples
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  counseling even if they don't call it Imago Theory, which is
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  Imago theories from horrible Hendricks is book.
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  Getting the love you want which I frequently recommend to
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  people, but anyhow what it says and I've covered this numerous
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  times in a very simplistic format is We are drawn to those
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  who remind us of a caregiver both in a positive and negative
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  way. And so, we take the negative
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  traits that remind us of the caregiver that we find in our
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  new attachment figure, our spouse and we try to change them
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  in ways that we could never change the parent when we were
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  growing up. So man, who finds a woman who is
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  kind of cold and not as affectionate as he would like is
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  it probably had a kind of a void and cold attachment figure that
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  he was always trying to get to be.
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  Arrested in him and pay attention to him and give him
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  affection. And so the same sort of thing
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  would go on in courtship. There's very few situations
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  where if a guy is really honest with himself he did not have
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  hopes that a woman would change in some way after getting
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  married. So it's like a thing that I say
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  all the time. I didn't want her change at all.
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  Then when we talk about it and couples counseling, they see
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  stuff. Like, even when we were dating,
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  like you always picked, you know, your family over me.
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  Or even when we were dating. And I thought that when we got
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  married or when we were dating, you said that you weren't
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  comfortable yet having sex. But then I thought that when we
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  got married. So there's all these ways that
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  human beings fantasize. They find somebody that is
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  familiar to them on a deep level and then they fantasize that
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  they threw, their love will be able to change this person such
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  that they can finally get their needs met in ways that they did
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  not get them at as a child. This is even more meaningful.
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  This re parenting is even more meaningful.
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  If it comes from somebody that it's similar to the parent and
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  the family of origin with whom you had the most conflict.
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  So then you can if you change this person then you really feel
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  like you have healed is deep in her wounds which is why people
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  try so valiantly and intensely to change their Partners despite
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  otherwise being rational people. So if you get somebody that is
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  similar to your parent and whether they're too cold too.
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  Volatile to absent too angry and you finally can change that
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  person and get your needs met. That feels so good, then you
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  know, people can actually do this.
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  I'm getting to that next. This isn't just all a lost.
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  Cause when people actually do this, they do feel really good
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  and that is a fulfilling marriage.
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  So, in what ways, then can people change if you really want
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  to take this, as far as you can, once you empathize, then you can
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  move forward and say, okay, fine.
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  So I wanted them to change. They wanted me to change, I
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  could see E ways that both of us wanted each other to change.
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  So what if I now try to change in the ways that they want at
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  least in some way, then maybe they're going to try to change
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  in the ways that I want. And or maybe the route, they
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  will just become happier and a better version of themselves.
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  So a man that spends all this time saying she wants me to give
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  a shit about the house. I don't give a shit if the house
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  is clean or not, but I never did.
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  So you know why she up my ass for something?
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  I never said I was going to be in touch cleaning the house when
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  we were dating. So why does she think I'm going
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  to turn into? Mr. Swiffer cloth right now.
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  Well what if you did you know what if you tried to bust your
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  ass to be into the house you know and clean stuff in the
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  house and be really into the house as much as you can.
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  And even say, hey I think I on my own will start this house
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  project. What if you became that dude?
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  You know what? If you became a doodoo be a lot
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  more likely that she would turn into the person that actually
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  did consider, you know, giving you a blowjob or whatever it is
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  that you want. Now that I'm saying you should
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  do a tit-for-tat because you should not things will always go
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  badly. If you do that, what I'm saying
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  is that in a situation where people understand the Deep human
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  need of both themselves and their partner to feel like an
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  Agent of Change within their marriage and Agent of Change of
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  the other person that's not boundary, Crossing or crazy or
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  whatever. That's literally human like,
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  that's being a human being. So, human being in an attachment
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  relationship has a desire to change this person, even Lee so
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  that this person becomes more of what you want and then you feel
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  some of the the healing that you didn't get as a kid, you know
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  how happy your kids are when like you do what they want
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  that's like a little like that that can show you how deep that
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  need is wired. So I like if if your kids has
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  you know what to do? I want to play this game that
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  you fucking hate right? And you finally say yes, you're
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  like so happy and if you want to make them even happier you feel
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  like wow. Thanks.
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  For introducing me to that game boy.
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  They'd be so happy then will your spouse is the same way.
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  Everybody has an inner child and your spouse is in her child
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  would be so happy. If you said, hey, you know what,
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  I really do like it. When we keep the house cleaner,
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  your wife, who just died. If you said that, like she be so
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  happy. If you're a guy who's always
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  been like, well I never liked later Gumball ball and it's not
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  important to me and we'll Roar so, you know, should be super
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  happy. And of course on the other end,
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  I always use the sex examples for men.
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  If you said to your husband You know what?
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  Like we're having sex more frequently.
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  Now I'm prioritizing it and I really liked it, you know.
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  Thanks for introducing me to that idea of not being celibate,
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  not being in a sexless marriage, this wacky idea.
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  No. But I mean, even just having
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  more sex or doing something different or whatever the women
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  that I see sometimes I see this and that, you know, people say,
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  do you ever have couples that succeed in couples counseling?
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  Sure. I have many success stories.
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  Some of them include people who are Are smart enough to say this
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  and who genuinely use the couples counseling as a
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  transformational event in their lives.
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  We're at they do. In fact, say to their partner,
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  something like, thanks for bringing me to couples
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  counseling. I really didn't think we needed
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  it, but I'm glad that we did it boy, does that make somebody
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  feel real good? You know to have changed their
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  spouses mind about something like that or women that really
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  do say yes I have thought about our sex life differently, you
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  know? And now thanks for You're
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  telling me to go to counseling and we are having more sex and I
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  do like it or men that say, thanks for telling me to read
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  those books on parenting. I'm talking to our son
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  differently and it seems to be working.
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  So, whenever a spouse feels like they made the spouse change in
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  some good way. Or they introduced something,
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  not only are they getting their needs met more now, but that the
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  spouse actually likes doing it. This is an ideal outcome in a
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  one that I do see in motivated intelligent couples.
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  I'm And I really only see motivated intelligent couples
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  that's a private Pig lineage. But you know, everybody that
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  comes in is not at the same level of motivation and
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  enthusiasm, that's for sure. So if you are and
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  open-mindedness I guess that's really what.
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  I mean because intelligence is great and all but
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  open-mindedness is the key variable.
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  And the people who start counseling with an open-minded
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  framework are usually the ones who will end up saying things
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  like This and thereby transforming the relationship.
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  I'm really just a conduit for people to learn and grow and
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  become their best self within couples counseling.
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  So anyhow this traversed, a lot of ground, this podcast episode,
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  but so maybe listen to it again, if you want, but listen to it
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  with your spouse because then you could say, all right?
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  And we always did. We want to change each other?
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  If we can, really be honest, what ways did it work?
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  And what ways did in it? And in what ways could we maybe
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  now change one another, you know, and what ways could we
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  heal one another? From the wounds that were
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  inflicted unintentionally in our families of origin.
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  Thereby repaired thing, one another and helping and healing
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  one another in this conversation only works if you use the word
• 16:14
  thereby, so get it in there. Okay.
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  But anyway, I hope you enjoyed this podcast episode.
• 16:20
  And please do subscribe, somebody who subscribe said
• 16:24
  something on by Page, like, I really felt after listening to
• 16:28
  all the episodes that, you know, I should really support her.
• 16:30
  And man, I applaud that sentiment.
• 16:33
  If you've got Own stuff out of this podcast and you really
• 16:36
  ethically really ought to subscribe.
• 16:39
  All right I'll talk to everybody soon.
• 16:40
  Bye bye.