Latest / Marketing Shed / What You Can Learn From Charity Marketing
Transcript
- Warren Fiveash: Good morning Paul. How you doing on this wet, dreary day? Paul Duxbury: Well it is wet but it's going to get better. I think the rain is forecast to stop. How are you after your technical challenges? I see you're looking very retro there with your ear buds. Warren Fiveash: I I know, I've had to put the earbuds in 'cause the the pitfalls of having a a garden shed room that you work in is that when it rains you can hear you can hear the raindrops and it overpowers the the speakers sometimes on the laptop. So having having you in my ear old school is the safest way to hear you, Paul. Paul Duxbury: you in my ear, old school, it's the safest way to hear you. I see, yes I understand that makes perfect sense, perfect sense. Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: Well, well it's it's Friday, we're recording this on Friday, aren't we lucky? We are, Friday's a good day to do it isn't it, lots to share from the week. Yes. things been going on, what you've been up to Warren Fiveash: We are Friday's a good day to do it, isn't it? Lots to share from the week, hopefully, and things have been going on. What have you been up to, Paul? Paul Duxbury: Paul? Well, well, well where do I begin? I have had a... fascinating week. I've been very lucky. So I spent two days facilitating a workshop looking at how to enter a new category. And super top secret. I can't share the details, which I know, I know, Warren Fiveash: it's a shame. Paul Duxbury: I know. But imagine that because of course normally we're working with established brands in established categories. This was quite different. And it really, really reinforced to me how important it is to get under the skin, into the shoes of your consumers. You know, we did a lot of work and of course the temptation is to start with, well, what does it mean from a production? standpoint, what does it mean from a supply chain standpoint and so on, all of that really important operational stuff. But if you haven't got clarity about who's going to actually buy this because they've got a need you're going to address, then all of that operational stuff is built on a foundation of sand. So we did have some data. We had some reports about the category and, and, and who was playing in it and those sorts of things. But the best bit was really when we started to think about actual category users and their experience and how they engage with the category and the products and the brands within it. And if I, if I was to do one thing, you know, if I was to do one thing, And I was forced to choose one thing to do to understand a category. I would go and talk to some category users and just ask them about their experience, good and bad, because you get so much from that. And that really brings the category to life. So yeah, I think that was a, that was a very, very productive, interesting and quite privileged position to be in for a couple of days this week, working through. that particular challenge. Well, that sounds exciting. When we hear what the thing is at some Warren Fiveash: that sounds exciting, Paul. I'm looking for c will we hear what the thing is at some point? Paul Duxbury: point. Well, it all depends because the big thing is we've got to do a proper business case and you can do something on the back of a flip chart or even on the front of a flip chart. But of course, it's not going to stack up or stand up to close scrutiny. So the next case is next step is to do a business case. and off the back of that we'll see what happens. But we're talking long lead times. So we'll both be retired before this becomes Warren Fiveash: You Paul Duxbury: the biggest brand in this category. It could be a long time, couldn't it? Yeah, remind me. yes, We'll Warren Fiveash: That could be a long time for me, Paul. At the current rate, unless I make millions of pounds in the next couple of years. Paul Duxbury: win that. But remind me in a few years and I'll reveal all. Warren Fiveash: The thing is you're at the start that's the start of the process, right? Getting close to users. This the it's a long journey. But when the the you look when you start it when you get further on in these projects, you look back at this bit and you think Paul Duxbury: That's the start of the process, right? Yeah. Warren Fiveash: you you you thank yourself almost for doing that hardcraft at the start of getting close to users and doing the research and the data. And and so it's absolutely probably the most crucial bit of it all, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Paul Duxbury: Thank yourself for doing that hard graph at the start of getting folks to use it and doing the research and stuff. so it's absolutely probably the most crucial bit of it all. Exactly. Customer focus, consumer focus, all that good stuff, all that good stuff. So that's me in Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Yeah. Paul Duxbury: a meeting room for a couple of days, but very, enjoyable. How about you? Have you been just chilling out, you know, long lunch breaks, all that sort of good stuff? What you've been up to? Warren Fiveash: Chill chilling out. Reveling re like it's a tricky one to talk about 'cause I don't want to sound like I'm blowing my own trumpet here, Paul. But I was on I got on the top one hundred list as many people my Paul Duxbury: It's a tricky one to talk about. I've got on the top 100 list. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know about that. The top 100, which you've been on for the last four years. Yeah, anyway, you've been like, no, well done. Well done. That is impressive. Warren Fiveash: Not that I want to go on about it. So that that has been nice to be on the last couple of weeks and lots of nice feedback around that. But and and I think I I th I guess what I was just gonna say on that. Kudos to Marketing Week really for recognising people in the charity sector because I think there's lots of brilliant charities and charity markets out there doing brilliant work. Paul Duxbury: and charity markets out there doing brilliant work and maybe it's not always picked up by the kind of in the commercial world or in the in the kind of commercial sector and actually marketing we do a good brilliant job of raising a profile around sort of charity marketing so yeah it's too lost for them for not just the top 100 and the other brilliant marketers that are on it but all the all the work they've done and actually just a general thank you to them because Warren Fiveash: And maybe it's not always picked up upon by the kind of in the commercial world or in the in the s in the kind of commercial sector and actually marketing week do a really good brilliant job of raising a profile around sort of charity marketing. So yeah, kudos to them for not just the top one hundred and the other brilliant marketers that are on it, but all the all the work they've done. And actually just a general thank you to them because ten years ago I never would have thought I'd be on something like that. And I Paul Duxbury: music I never would have thought I'd be on something like that and I think all those moths out there are just starting out. You can kind of get on these things and get in these lists and make a breakthrough if you do all the right things. Yeah so your top hundred do you get a badge? You don't get a badge, you don't get kudos really Paul. What you don't get a trophy? Well for those who are listening they can't see but Warren Fiveash: think to all those marketers out there that are just starting out you can you can kind of get on these things and get in these lists and make a breakthrough if if you yeah do the right do all the right things. I think it's possible. So yeah. Yeah. You don't get a badge. You just get kudos really Paul, I think. Well, for those who listening they can't see but I my my colleagues at work got me a mug with Paul Duxbury: my colleagues at work got me a mug with Warren Fiveash: with that top one hundred written on. So that all I've got to show is is a mug. But I can that's fine. Paul Duxbury: that top 100 written on it. All I've got to show is a mug. Well, that's nice that your colleagues did. And there's no sort of secret handshake or anything like that. there's nothing like that. You're not in a secret club. It's just a nice thing to be in, really. Well, what we Warren Fiveash: No. No, it's not isn't yeah, it's nothing nothing yeah, there's nothing nothing like that. You're not in a secret club. It's just yeah, just just a nice thing to be on, really. Paul Duxbury: should do, Warren, because the list is published, obviously, Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: we should organise... Maybe in your local. We'll do a top Warren Fiveash: Yes. Paul Duxbury: hundred prize winners evening. Warren Fiveash: Yes. Paul Duxbury: we'll publicize the date and we'll see how many turn up. Yeah, love that. Let's do that. Big party. So how many of the hundreds did we get Warren Fiveash: Yeah, love that. Let's do that. Big party. So how many of the hundred could we get there? Paul Duxbury: there? Well, we need a pub that's got capacity for a hundred. And one, because I'm not in the top hundred, just to make that clear. Warren Fiveash: Yeah, yeah. I'm sure that could be that you should be in it. You're in my top one hundred. Paul Duxbury: So it should be a hundred and one. I probably was a hundred and first. That's what happened. So yeah, Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: we'll organize that in the dog and duck. Warren Fiveash: Love that. Paul Duxbury: yeah, I think we probably will get at least, I would think at least three quarters will turn up. you think? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. right. And there's probably a few people on there. Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Yeah, I think so. I think so. I think they're good numbers, aren't they? Yeah. And there's probably a few people on there. shall I know there are a few people on there in the in the sort of b beer slash kind of drinks sector. So wow, couldn't get my words out then, Paul. so you know. Paul Duxbury: yeah well that's all right you're so excited by the prospect well we could Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: get them to bring bring a bottle as well yeah Warren Fiveash: Yeah, yeah. Paul Duxbury: so in fact just bring your own product bring your own product and we'll have a bit of a sort of car boot sale Warren Fiveash: Yeah. that's that'd be amazing, wouldn't it? Yeah. There'd be some good ones there. Samsung, some mobiles, yeah, brilliant. Well, well done to everyone else on that list, and let's have a big party. Yeah, yeah. Love that. And you've been noticing big stuff, haven't you? So big crowd product sampling are here. Is that right? Paul Duxbury: Yeah, of course, of course, good stuff, very good. Well, talk about car boot sales. So, yeah, I went to the American football at the weekend. Warren Fiveash: Did you? Paul Duxbury: Yes, I did. went to... Tottenham Hotspur American Football Stadium, is that what it's called? Yes it is. It's Tottenham Hotspur Stadium isn't it? is it? I thought it was just Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Yes it is. It's Tutham Hotspur Stadium, isn't it? Yeah. Yes. Paul Duxbury: American football, because I don't believe they play soccer there. It's just... There's some clubs they do. So my good Warren Fiveash: Sometimes they do, when they want to. Paul Duxbury: friend John took me there as a treat for my big birthday from earlier in the summer. Very, very impressive. The stadium, obviously you know the stadium. The stadium, hadn't been there before, very impressive. razzmatazz of NFL matches. It very impressive that they had a mascot from the Jacksonville Jaguars, I think, who leapt off the stadium roof by the the trofe of the bird. What's the what's the whatever the bird is called? The cockerel leapt Warren Fiveash: the cockroom. Yeah. Paul Duxbury: off there on a bungee rope and then was lowered onto the pitch. And of course you had cheerleaders and you had more mascots. had a live band, really, really, really high production values and a real focus on quality for the NFL brand. But, but as I, as I approached the stadium and as I left the stadium, it was a bit like the sort of, bargain bucket experience. I was handed, about eight. nicotine pouches by some Warren Fiveash: No. Paul Duxbury: sampling teams. On the way back, there was a sort of industrial plastic bin into which people were tipping Pop-Tarts, I think they were, just in the silver foil wrapper, and they were being handed out left, right and center. And it just struck me that that marketers I've done this in my past you you you might have as well marketers invest quite a lot of money and effort into these consumer sampling activities and When they're on the face of it, they're a good idea because you're obviously getting the the brand the product straight into your consumers hands But it seems it is that there's ways of doing it and at the The match, the NFL match, it was a bit like we're having a clear out here and Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: just take as many as you can. Warren Fiveash: Mm. Paul Duxbury: I saw, I saw a higher end version a couple of weeks ago in Covent Garden. was a perfume toiletries company and they wanted you to scan a QR code, put your details in before you could get the gift, the free, the free sample. So that made sense. You know, you're exchanging personal data for the sample. But I just pretended that I was struggling to fill in the form. And of course, the sampling people just gave me the sample anyway. They're like, don't worry about it, because they didn't have much skin in the game. Warren Fiveash: Mm-hmm. Paul Duxbury: And I noticed this at Waterloo station. When you go to Waterloo station, often when you arrive, there's people handing out things left, right, and center. And you could as easily walk away with three of something as one of something. So it feels like the the sampling teams are really just trying to clear out the bin and move on Warren Fiveash: Mm. Paul Duxbury: So I wonder I was thinking about this because we spend a lot of money on this sort of stuff It has got value in terms of getting brands products straight into consumers hands But I think we need to say well look what what are we trying to achieve here? Is it is it just trial or is there some Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: perception? upside Does the sampling actually support that objective? there other things we could do? And if we do go the sampling route, which has got merit, are the people who do it, the sampling teams, are they properly equipped? Are they encouraged to deliver the experience that we're seeking to deliver? Otherwise, there's a risk that we have what appears to be activity, I it is activity, it appears to be effective activity. But in fact, just may Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: be a best, it gets your product into lots of people's hands, may not be the right people. Worst, it can devalue the brand by making it look a bit cheap and throw away. Your question around what you're trying to achieve is key, So, yeah. Where you place emphasis on whatever that is. Warren Fiveash: Yeah, yeah. I your question around what you're trying to achieve is key, right? So where you place emphasis on one of the whatever that is, that objective is, so whether it's awareness, trial, change in perceptions, purchase, that that's key to how you ta you show up, right? In these in these b yeah. Yeah. Paul Duxbury: effective is, so whether it's awareness from change of perceptions, purchase, that's key to how you show up, Yeah, think so. Imagine if, you know, one option is that you say, well, it's all about trial, therefore, the more people who get the product, the brand, the better. Fair enough. If it's about awareness, You could sort of reduce the number you give away, make it harder to give it away, but make the value of what you give away greater. And then even if people don't take it because they can't get through the steps you put in place to get it, at least they might see that and you don't devalue the brand. So yeah, I think it just requires very careful thought. I think it's a fascinating one. I think it often gets under... underestimated as a way of promoting a brand. But if you're going to do it, do it properly. Don't just act like Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: it's an end of bin sale. I do always think that they were doing the same thing at St Pancras yesterday. They were giving out treats for pets. They looked like they were treats for adults. I can't remember the brand. Warren Fiveash: I do I do always think of those things. They were doing the same thing at St Pancras yesterday and they were giving out I think they were like treats for pets. they look they but they looked like they were treats for adults. I d I can't remember the brand off the top of my head. But it was a brand that usually does treats for adults. and it was a bit confusing. Paul Duxbury: of my head. it was a guy who does treat your adults. And it was a bit confusing. Warren Fiveash: If I'm honest. And I always wonder who are you trying to reach? Are you have you used are you doing that outside the train station because you know that your audience is likely to be there, or you just I d what is the p I d I sometimes wonder what the point is. Yeah. Just just just just mass. Yeah. Paul Duxbury: If I'm honest, and I always wonder who are you trying to reach? are you doing that outside the train station because you know that you will be too likely to be there or you just what is the numbers? Just numbers, isn't it? Numbers game? Just just max? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's interesting that you don't remember the brand. Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: And nor do you fully remember if it was for humans or animals. that's, yeah. Yeah. That's Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Well that there's your point. What are you trying to do? Paul Duxbury: why you're one of the hundred most effective marketers. So that was, that was, that Warren Fiveash: Hell Paul Duxbury: was what I observed. What did you observe Warren from Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Well Paul Duxbury: your lofty, lofty position? Warren Fiveash: Well, it's nothing I've observed particularly, something I've been thinking about. and I can't suppose I wanna pay I wanna pay forward what you know, the the top one hundred thing. You know, it's great to be on there, but there's a there's there's hundreds and thousands of marketers that are way better than me. And but I think particularly in the charity sector, right? And I think the reason for Paul Duxbury: suppose I want to pay forward, but it's not 100,000, it's great to be on there, there's hundreds and thousands of masters that are way better than me. I think particularly in the charity sector, right? And I think the reason... Warren Fiveash: that is is because and we don't say this out loud that often in the charity sector, but I think Paul Duxbury: because, and we don't say this out loud that often in the charity, but I think the fundamentals never change from acting, they? No. You've got your four P's, so you've got your price for that. Warren Fiveash: The fundamentals never change for marketing, do they? you know, you've got your four Ps. So you got you got your price, product, promotion, place, right? But those have to be tweaked a bit in the charity sector. So you're not you're not setting a price per se. People will donate an amount, but what you're building is is trust and value alignment. So you have to get people to p to Paul Duxbury: But those have to be tweaked a bit in the charity sector. So you're not setting a price per se for people who donate an amount. But what you're building is trust and having your alignment. So you have to get people to Warren Fiveash: Trust that you're going to deliver and what you're going to deliver. So if you're helping you know abandoned pets, you Paul Duxbury: trust that you're going to deliver on what you're going to deliver. So if you're helping abandoned pets. Warren Fiveash: know, if you're the RSPCA, you've got to build trust in what you're trying to change and deliver, and prove that what you're trying to change, you can do that and be effective. And that that that is quite a different skill and way of marketing, maybe than it is in the commercial sector with when you've got a product. Paul Duxbury: You know, you're the RSPCA, you've got to build trust in what you're trying to change and deliver and prove that what you're trying to change, you can do that and be effective. that is quite a different, skill or way of marketing maybe than it is in the commercial sector is when you've got a product where you've got, you're selling a car and you're selling like the nice leather interiors and Warren Fiveash: where you've got where you're selling a car and you're selling like the nice leather interiors and you know exactly you know you could be really pinpointed about your audience and target and and convert that person probably a lot quicker maybe than some other some of some other audiences maybe in the charity sector when you're trying to get someone to donate. So the way we have to storytell and the way we have to build value-based storytelling that Paul Duxbury: You know exactly, you know, you can be really pinpointed about your audience and target and convert that person probably a lot quicker maybe than some other, some other audiences maybe in the charity sector where you're trying to get someone to donate. So the way we have to storytell and the way we have to build value based storytelling that Warren Fiveash: hasn't got a tangible thing that you're purchasing, you're build you're buying into the purpose of the organization Paul Duxbury: hasn't got a tangible thing that you're purchasing, you're buying into the purpose of the organisation. Warren Fiveash: is quite a diff difficult skill. I just wondered if you applied more of that in the commercial sector. I wonder if it would make it would build better kind of longer term i value for those brands. But yeah. Paul Duxbury: quite a difficult skill. I just wondered if you applied more of that in the commercial sector. I wonder if it would make, it would build better kind of longer term value for those brands. Yeah, well let's challenge your proposition there that charity marketing is different. I mean, is it? I mean, Warren Fiveash: Mm. Paul Duxbury: you are meeting a need, aren't you? Yeah. Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: I assume that need is the need to give to charitable causes Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: or the need to satisfy that desire to make other people's lives better or that need to share some of your wealth to help others. And really, you're looking at perhaps belief change, potentially. Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Yeah. Paul Duxbury: Yeah. mean, look, let's face it, it might, it might be awareness. It might be, well, I don't know which charity to give to. didn't know that charity existed. It might be belief. It might be, I would give, but I don't have full trust that charity will make good use of my donation. But that's, Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: that's no different to, I don't know. I would bank with, with that institution, but I'm not sure they would invest my money wisely. So I think the fundamentals of belief change, of satisfying people's needs, known and unknown, is consistent, isn't it? I think it is, but I wonder if there's a... Because you talking about humans. Warren Fiveash: Think it is, but I wonder if there's a ri 'cause you're talking about humans or maybe animals or you know, whatever the charity is supporting. I think there is a longer tail to telling the story to build the trust. So you there's the emotive side of it, right? That you've got to build. So the fact that, you know, the impact that this is having on said person or or whatever it is y your charity supports. And then there is Paul Duxbury: So the fact that, you know, the impact that this is having on second person or whatever it is, your charity support. And then there is Warren Fiveash: the bit you've got to build around the actual organisation and the val the role they play and like you said the trust. So that is no different. That is no different you're right to a bank, etcetera. But I suppose when someone's donate giving you money with no tangible return, what they re they want to see that Paul Duxbury: the bit you've got to build around the actual organization and the role they play in, like you said, the trust. So that is no different. That is no different, your right to a bank, et cetera. But I suppose when someone's donating, giving you money with no tangible return, what they want to see Warren Fiveash: that five pounds is directly doing something, right? So you've got to be really, really, really clear and transparent about that. Do you think that differs a bit? Paul Duxbury: that five pounds is directly doing something right so you've got to be really really really clear and transparent about that. Do think that differs a bit? Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: Well I think it is interesting and I think what is perhaps different is that all organisations have costs associated with delivering their service Warren Fiveash: Uh-huh. Paul Duxbury: and let's carry on with the bank versus charity comparison. with banks because one gets a return, then one Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Yeah. Paul Duxbury: tends to accept the costs and provided the return, the net return is good. That's okay. With a charity, it feels a little less comfortable knowing that Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: every hundred pounds you give, 15 of that, whatever the number is, goes on salaries and buildings and Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: IT and so on. So I guess there is a... perhaps a higher bar in a way for charities to demonstrate how Warren Fiveash: My best. Paul Duxbury: the money is being spent, you know, it's being spent wisely. Maybe it's not that the fundamental changes since you're dialing up more in some areas in terms of trust being one. It's almost that we could have dialed up 20 more percent or 30 more percent for a charity than say a commercial. Warren Fiveash: Maybe it's not that the fundamentals change, it's just you're dialing up more in some areas in terms of like trust being one. That it's almost that needs to be dialed up twenty more percent or thirty more percent for a charity than say a commercial that maybe Paul Duxbury: Maybe that's wrong, I don't know. But I wonder if this is the dial you have to use is slightly different than maybe the length of time. And it depends on what you're trying to talk to as well, doesn't it? So people that are Warren Fiveash: that's wrong, I don't know. But I I wonder if it's just the the dials you have to use are slightly different, and maybe the length of time and it depends on who you're trying to talk to as well, doesn't it? So people that are Closer to cause, maybe that it's people that have been directly impacted by what you're trying to change. Those people are kind of warmer to the charity, understand and and have seen kind of the impact that it makes with their own eyes. So they're more likely to give and have a longer when you're trying to reach colder audiences. Paul Duxbury: close to cause maybe that it's people that have been directly impacted by what you're trying to change. Those people are kind of warmer to the charity understander and have seen kind of the impact that it makes with their own eyes. So yeah, more likely to give and have another you try to reach colder. businesses. Obviously that is a different kind of approach there. I think so and I also wonder, Warren Fiveash: Obviously that is that there's a different kind of approach there, isn't there? So yeah. Paul Duxbury: oddly when charities become successful, Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: two things happen. One is they can have a bigger impact with their chosen cause, but the other is they have a bigger organisational burden. Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: And what's strange is that, you know, take the financial sector, You don't sort of have cottage industry financial institutions really, but you can have a cottage industry charity. I mean, I don't know the details, but you could set up a charity where there was almost no overhead and almost Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: all the donations went to the cause. But there probably would be a cap on the size of that charity. But within the charitable sector, People tend not to think of corporations. They tend to think of, well, this is money, every pound going directly to the cause, but that's not the reality, is it? Yeah. Yeah. Well, think we should pick this one up further in future, but I think it was a good debate to see how they differ. And just be thinking about that a lot, slightly. Yes. Yes. I'm slightly disagreeing Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think we should pick this one up further in future, but I it was a good I think it was a good debate to see how they differ. And yeah, just just just been thinking about that a lot lately. So yeah. Paul Duxbury: with your proposition. Warren Fiveash: That's fine. That's fine. Paul Duxbury: But that's okay, because the internet thrives on disagreement. But Warren Fiveash: We should have had a Paul Duxbury: notice, we're disagreeing in a very nice way, and I don't think any of the less of you for not necessarily agreeing with you. Warren Fiveash: all about opinion and agreeing agreeing disagreeably, I think, isn't it, Paul? good stuff. Yes, sorry, it is the other way. It's been a long week, Paul. It's been a long week. what are you doing this week, Paul? Paul Duxbury: I it might be hopefully the other way around. What am I doing? I am preparing to present to business students at the University of Zlin in the Czech Republic. I'm going there the end of next week, actually into the week after. I've been asked to do that as part of my work for the European Institute of Commercial Communications Education, EDCOM. And I'm going to talk to two classes of students, by which I mean literally two classes, not any social demographic classes. Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: And I'm going to talk to them about how to be lifelong learners. within the context of marketing communications and to talk to them about how they keep pace with trends and keep their learning intact in such a fast moving environment. I think it's never been a better time to be a learner in terms of Warren Fiveash: Mm. Paul Duxbury: the access we have to knowledge. And the trick is just to... I suppose just understand a few techniques for how one thinks about where to focus your learning activity, how to convert knowledge into actual skill and capability. I won't give you the answers now, not least because I've not quite finalized the work yet, Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: but I will share with you once I return from, the apparently very beautiful university city town of Zlin in Czech. Warren Fiveash: Yeah. That sounds lovely. I want to hear about that. I think you should do a podcast on cities that you've been to, Paul, and what you've learned and what you've seen. I think that'd be I'd love to see that. Or hear it. Yeah. Paul Duxbury: yes well I shall let's do that that can be year end because because I'm going to add Genoa to the list in in in a month's time which which I I've I know the name obviously but that's going to be an interesting place to go and see. Warren Fiveash: Looking forward to hearing about that. I'm really interested in this about learning, by the way. And I I something linked to that is how young people Paul Duxbury: Yeah. Warren Fiveash: coming into marketing or whatever sector, how they are picking up the skills. And we've spok spoken a little bit about this Paul Duxbury: how they are thinking about the skills. Warren Fiveash: before, how they're picking up skills in the hybrid world where maybe they're not always in the office and learning off other people. So yeah, and maybe we could pick that up at some point. Paul Duxbury: Yes. Learning off other people. yeah, maybe at some point. And how about you? What are you doing apart from hobnobbing with, was it Top 100? Did you say Top 100? 100. Let's get that on the camera. Yeah, get that in again. I think you should introduce me from now on in every podcast like that, That's in my contracts. so, I have just been, this is very boring non-Top 100 exciting stuff, but. Warren Fiveash: Top one hundred. Top one hundred. Yeah, get that in again. I think you should introduce me from a mail on in every podcast like that, Paul. I think that's that's in my contracts. No, no. I have just been this is very boring, non top one hundred exciting stuff, but I love I love a bit of planning. We've just done three days of planning in person together actually. So in in this in person, yeah, in this hybrid world we live in. Paul Duxbury: I love the planning, which is three days in person. In person. Yeah, it's hard. Warren Fiveash: It was really great actually. It was really great. Really, really enjoyable. I know that's I know most people are thinking, God, you like planning for three days straight, but it was just great being in the same room and you know, lots of good conversation, lots of challenge, lots of alignment, across things, which was good. Paul Duxbury: It was really great. Actually, really great. Really, really enjoyable. then it's and then most people think probably like planning. Great in the same room and lots of good conversation, lots of lots of alignment, cross things, which is good. Warren Fiveash: So now the now the task is taking that away for the next year, next couple of years and building that into something. So that's that's the next next few weeks for me. Paul Duxbury: So now the task is taking that away for the next year, next couple of years and building that into something. So that's the next few weeks to the moon. Well, that's what chat GPT is there for. What do you mean? All that stuff is done in a days. Yeah. Yeah, makes sense of that. Yeah. Yeah, it makes sense of that. And then poke it around a bit, right? Yes, exactly. Warren Fiveash: Well, do you mean whack all that stuff we just done for three days into Chat GPT? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, make sense of that. And then and then and then poke it around a bit, right? Yeah. Paul Duxbury: Exactly. Just take out the long hyphens and it's a plan. Yeah. Yeah. Long hyphens. Why do they still do that? it's Warren Fiveash: Yeah, yeah, long hyphens. Why do they still do that? Like that is Paul Duxbury: unbelievable. Warren Fiveash: yeah. Can you ask Chat P have you asked Chat G P to take the long hyphens out? It just doesn't know how to write without them, does it? Yeah. So look looking forward to that. I'll keep you posted on how that goes, Nick and our Chat P G G P T cope for that next time. Chapit. Yeah. Brilliant. Paul Duxbury: Yeah. Can you ask ChatPeach, have you asked ChatPeach to take the long hyphens out? I think it would explode. I think it would just stop. This doesn't have to write, right? No. Yeah. So Leo, if don't want that, I'll keep you posted on how goes. Good, do. Our ChatPeachy GPT. Yep, very good. Very good. Brilliant. Excellent. Well, I look forward to it. We shall reconvene in a couple of weeks. Warren Fiveash: Braille, thanks Paul. Have a good one. Paul Duxbury: Yeah, you too mate. Ciao.