Latest / Leaders in Customer Loyalty, Powered by Loyalty360 / #405: Loyalty360 Loyalty Live | Shamba Schmidt, Epsilon

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#405: Loyalty360 Loyalty Live | Shamba Schmidt, Epsilon · Leaders in Customer Loyalty, Powered by Loyalty360

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Good afternoon, good morning.
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: This is Ryan Massey, director of Client Relations at Loyalty360, welcoming you to another edition of Loyalty Live.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: This is a series we talk to leading agencies, technology partners and consultants in customer channel and brand loyalty about the technology trends and best practices that impact the ability of brands to drive unique experiences, enhance engagement and, most importantly, customer loyalty.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Today we have the pleasure of speaking with Shamba Schmidt, vice President Solution Consulting at Epsilon.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: Welcome, shamba, I'm glad you could join us, thank you.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: Thank you, ryan, I'm glad to be here.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: Can you tell us a little bit about yourself, your current role at Epsilon and your background?
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I've been in the industry for a long time.
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: I basically cut my teeth in loyalty back at Carlson Marketing way back in the day.
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: I worked on a lot of financial services programs at the time.
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: I worked on a lot of financial services programs at the time.
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: Over time, evolved, moved through the industry and ended up at Epsilon probably I guess it's been about 12 years ago now and run a.
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: I'm part of a practice within the bounds of Epsilon that really helps design end-to-end solutions for brands that are looking for loyalty, whether that be a bespoke loyalty program or if it is a component of loyalty that's really driving a specific output, whether that be driver retention or increased acquisition, that kind of thing.
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: So my team we work hard on new pursuits as well as coming in and helping clients that we have today really think about the roadmap of where they are in their marketing maturity with their customers and how they can truly evolve to that next level.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: Today we wanted to focus on data and the critical role it plays in brands' customer loyalty efforts.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: Could you tell us a little bit about Epsilon's experience in leveraging data to support your clients' loyalty initiatives and how this approach helps brands build deeper, more personalized connections with customers?
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks, ryan.
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: It's probably never been more important Getting it right.
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: It's probably never been more important.
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: Our approach at Epsilon is really multifaceted.
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: There probably is no single silver bullet.
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: One of the things that we are known for is our database.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: That is privacy and compliance driven, so that's a great way to start to build an asset in terms of data capture.
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: The other part of that is is that not only do we have capture capabilities with the data repository in our database, but we have data augmentation capabilities.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: So we have capture capabilities with the data repository in our database, but we have data augmentation capabilities, so we have hygiene elements that allow us to get to the best profile that we can get with the data that we have or that the brands have, and then we don't have to rely 100% on that brand's data that they bring to the table.
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: We can help them enrich it through data augmentation, whether that be filling out a more robust profile with the data that we can overlay into it, or actually fortifying it with information that we know around demographic, behavioral, psychographic attributes that allow them to drive a more robust customer journey across everything that they do when they're engaging with the member, not just in terms of communications, but how the loyalty experience can be tailored specifically to that member.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: How would you describe the overall impact of data on customer loyalty programs and strategies today, and why is it critical for brands to prioritize data-driven approaches?
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: It's probably never been more important.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: So over the last, dare I say, 25 years I've been in this industry, we've always said data number one priority, that you've got to get it right so that you can maintain credibility with the conversation you're having with the members.
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: But today there's so much happening with technology it's still the same story, but like at a heightened level, because of things like AI right.
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: That stuff's only going to work good if it has a great you know data set that it's sitting on top of.
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: That'll allow it to do, you know, help it predict more rich and robust journeys or outcomes or offers, and so making sure the data's right is just never, ever been more important as we see technology continue to evolve.
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: In your opinion, what are the most significant opportunities data offers for brands looking to enhance and differentiate their loyalty programs?
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: You know it's interesting, ryan.
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: So, as I mentioned, I've been doing this for a couple of years and you would be surprised at how many people have never truly made that investment into data.
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: They've made the investment, maybe, into platform, where they've got it all into one place, but they've never taken an opportunity to truly do an end-to-end robust hygiene that will allow them to dedupe members.
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: You know who I was 10 years ago and who I am today.
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: Different profiles looks totally different.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: You have to get to that place where you can truly understand where the member's at.
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: So I think that getting to a robust profile and then having a concerted effort that's enterprise-led not just, you know, for the loyalty program or maybe for this campaign, but it's truly enterprise-led is a place that we're really starting to see brands focus, which is good.
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: I don't want to say it's too late, but it's not a one and done.
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: It's truly going to be, and have to be, an evolution as that technology continues to evolve.
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: We all have to be in front of what that means from the dataset perspective and advise these brands on how they're going to continue to take the investments they've made and make sure that it's not a wasted investment, that they can continue to build upon it so that they can be up with the consumer expectations that continue to evolve.
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: They can be on par or maybe hopefully in front of it to evolve.
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: They can be on par or maybe hopefully in front of it.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: Have you seen the shift towards zero and first party data impacted loyalty strategies, and what are the best ways for brands to maximize the value of this type of data?
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: I have seen a slight shift right, but I think a lot of it has been a lot of it so far and we're starting to see it shift hard in terms of action.
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of it's been shifted in terms of thought leadership about what people want to do with data zero party and first party data but the reality is, is that a lot of the platforms or the technology, whether it be, you know, something that's older in market or something, quite frankly, we're seeing still a lot of homegrown opportunities in some of our brands and they just haven't been able to stay on par with the investments that are required.
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: So they talk a lot about it, but they don't necessarily have the tools that they need to truly harness zero party, first party data collection, to have it be something that will actually build a robust profile.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: It almost is adding clutter as they try and do it, because they haven't, you know, formalized a true data strategy on how they need to kind of get their house in order first and then build upon what they're doing for first party and zero party data collection.
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so in what ways can brands use data to gain a deeper understanding of their customers' desires and preferences, particularly when it comes to loyalty program elements such as rewards, benefits or tiers?
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: I think that we're starting to see this a lot Again, aspirational, I think, for a lot of brands, because it's a shift, which is the earn and burn.
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: You know, people used to say, like points, they're dead, and I don't necessarily believe that at all.
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: I think it's an evolution.
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: I think that what people are actually saying is points for just transactions or rewards for just transactions needs to be modified, and I agree with that 100%, because in an economy like we have today, where we see so many people price shopping because of inflation, they may still be very loyal to your brand but need something that's a little bit more affordable.
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: When you can recognize what behaviors they're exhibiting, you may be able to circumvent them shopping somewhere else if you can recognize it.
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: And that may require us looking at different types of strategies that are not just points for purchases but points or, you know, engagement for activity.
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: So, instead of thinking about a spend and get as an example, maybe it's a do and get, and the get can doesn't always have to be monetary right, and I think that if we can get to a place where we can continue to evolve that conversation, it helps build a more robust profile on all the ways a member is engaging with a brand, that allow them to be able to target that consumer or that member in a way that they hadn't previously, because they were looking for them in one place instead of all the places that that consumer might be engaging with the brand.
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: Interesting.
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: How should marketers balance quantitative data, like purchase history, with qualitative insights, like surveys or feedback, to shape their customer loyalty strategies?
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: I think it's an interesting question because I think the answer is it depends, and the depends is how strong is the data repository that you have today?
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: If it's not that strong, getting to, really, you won't have insights that are probably as clean as that you need them to be, that are probably as clean as that you need them to be to be able to be predictive about next best action, next best offer category, you know, expansion opportunities.
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: So getting to a place where you can get input from the member about the things they like, the things that they would love to see that kind of thing in a survey or poll, I think is critical.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: I'm not saying it's not important if your data is not pristine, but it is really nice.
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: I think members really love being asked what it is they want out of a program or an experience.
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: But the pitfall becomes this If you ask them what they want, be prepared to deliver it, and that is something that I think is really that change that I was just talking about.
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: We're seeing people move from the aspirational component of wanting to be able to do that brands wanting to be able to do that to now with more robust technology and platforms available in the market.
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: Now they have the capability if they can get their data straight, they can truly then build on what are all of the other ways that the members engaging with the brand outside of just that transaction and the customer journey then gets to be very robust and super exciting for both the brand because they have the insights on what's working and what's not, and for a member because they're really getting components that they want.
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: That's very exciting For brands dealing with siloed or fragmented data.
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: What initial steps would you recommend to begin gaining a more unified view of customer needs and preferences?
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: I think it's just starting.
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: I can't say that enough.
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: Everybody's asking like, well, what's the best approach?
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: What's the best approach?
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: And for everybody, the best approach is going to be different because of where they are in their maturity with data or with technology.
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: It is about getting started.
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: Wherever you are, Get started, Be able to recognize that it's not, there's no silver bullet in any of it.
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: It is an enterprise initiative that brands have to take on, but getting started and then staying committed to the process is really the only way forward and I think that that, truly, if there's anything I could say, it's just kind of like get in, get on the you know train and be prepared for a ride, Because everything that you do, it's kind of like watching your kids grow up.
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: Every time you get to a new milestone, when you get your data right and things are happening and you have better insights with the data you have.
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: Like you can see these light bulb moments with brands and with their members about oh my gosh, this was so great, this worked great.
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: What if we could do the next thing?
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: And it's like, well, why can't you?
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: Right, If we can get there, we can continue this journey and keep things super exciting for everybody and the best part is when we can get it right.
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: The return is there, the return for those investments.
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: It is there, so it provides a justification for the kind of pain and suffering, if you will, of just getting started and figuring out your path and staying committed to it.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: What advice would you give to brands that are in the early stages of leveraging data to enhance their customer loyalty programs?
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: Are there any key takeaways or first steps you'd recommend for building a data-driven loyalty strategy that truly resonates with customers?
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: North Star.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: It may seem like I don't even know how to get there, right, but the idea is like, if you don't know where you are, where you want to go the road, there is no true possibility for a roadmap.
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: So, as an organization and not within a siloed piece of the organization, but at the enterprise level figure out what you guys really, what that North Star is, experience looks like, and then figure out you know where you're going to start.
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: If you work with an agency like Epsilon or there are some others in market, we will be able to help take where you want to be, understand where you are and help build a comprehensive roadmap on the best practices, not just the technology, right, that's super important and I want to make sure I don't dismiss that at all, but it's not.
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: There is no silver bullet, right, that's super important and I want to make sure I don't dismiss that at all, but it's not there.
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: There is no silver bullet, right.
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: So it's not just about buying a technology.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: It's truly about having a roadmap of best practice that will allow them to get to that North Star effectively leveraging the ecosystem investments that they've had and then helping them be able to be, you know, closer and closer over time to that North Star.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: Excellent.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: Do you have any closing advice or thoughts?
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: What's next for Epsilon at the end of 2024 and into 2025?
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, getting started, that's the best way, and everybody that feels like they're already on the trend of getting started or feel like they have an initiative within their organization that is really focused on data, really look at it, think about it, think about where that North Star is and see where are you making progress against it.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: I think that that becomes a very humbling experience for many of us as we work with the assets that we have from a data perspective.
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: Are we capturing everything that we can?
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: And if we are capturing it, are we using it?
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: So I think a little self-reflection is super important because it will help.
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: As you're thinking about 2025 and all of the capabilities that exist in terms of AI and personalization initiatives, making sure that you're on the right path to be able to leverage those most effectively is really important.
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: As it relates for what's next for Epsilon, it's really taking that mindset and finding ways that we can streamline it.
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: So when we look at communications with members in loyalty programs and it still tends to be very email-driven, which is fantastic that still can be a radically effective channel, but the reality is that, as we see in Next Generation and Gen Z, that may not be the most effective channel.
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: So really getting them where they are is going to be the most important thing that we do, is going to be the most important thing that we do.
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: So really making sure that, whether we're leveraging email or SMS or, quite frankly, online display opportunities to get in front of these members with a continuous conversation, is really important.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: And at Epsilon, for us, we're really focused in 2025 and making that a super easy process for brands to be able to bring into their loyalty program enterprise marketing as a whole, but into their loyalty program so that they can ensure that they're really getting the members where they're at with the right message.
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: That's a great point.
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: Thank you very much.
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: All right, so we've made it through our long form questions.
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: We want to pivot now into our quickfire questions.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: These are short, one word phrases.
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: Want to get these 10 in about 60 seconds.
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: So here you go.
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: What word or short phrase do you use to inspire others?
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: Probably carry on.
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: What is your least favorite word that others use?
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: Depends.
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: What excites you at work?
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: Data.
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: What do you find tiresome at home or work?
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: Excuses.
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: What book?
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: do you like to recommend to colleagues?
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: The Universe has your Back.
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: What profession other than your own would you like to attempt?
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: Oh, that's actually an interesting one.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: I kind of race car driver.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: What do you enjoy doing that you don't get to do often?
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: Go to the beach.
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: Who inspired you to become the person you are today?
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: My children.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: What do you typically think about at the end of the day, what I have to do tomorrow and how do you want to be remembered by your family and friends?
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: A happy mom.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: Terrific Well.
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: Thank you for taking the time to speak with us today.
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: It was great hearing your perspective on customer loyalty.
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: We look forward to learning more from you throughout the year.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: Awesome Thanks, appreciate it.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: I want to thank everyone for listening.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: We look forward to having you back on our next Loyalty Live soon.