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Self-Care Habits That Truly Stick with Jason Gootman · The Bridges and Beacons Podcast

• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to the Bridges and Beacons podcast.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Kelly Meyerson.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: And today I have my friend Jason with me.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm so excited because we're going to have a conversation about wellness.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: And not from like this ethereal sense of like, how do I get well and all this mystical information out there, but some real concrete, thoughtful approaches.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: Jason Gootman is a Myo Clinic certified wellness coach and National Board certified health and wellness coach, as well as a certified nutritionist and certified exercise physiologist.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: Jason helps people go from knowing what to do and having good intentions to consistently taking great care of themselves in ways that help them add years to their lives and life to their years.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: Jason, welcome and thank you so much for being here.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me, Kelly.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, this topic is so big on my heart.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: As we were just speaking a little bit before we came into the conversation, I too, as an occupational therapist, I think because we look at life through such a holistic lens, I'm not looking at, you know, my student has delayed fine motor skills.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm looking at what is the implication?
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: Are they having trouble feeding themselves?
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: And really looking at the bigger picture of how we keep a human body alive and thriving, which is what your bio is talking about.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm really excited to have this conversation.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: And especially because, you know, you're not coming at this from like we were joking, like sitting at a barbecue with your great aunt who's telling you this is this is how you get your best nutrition, but really from a basis of a lot of evidence-based information and practice.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, it's uh wellness is an interesting area.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: I guess wellness by itself isn't isn't a profession or a field.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and it's like some sometimes what you see in the financial worlds, there's there's a lot of there's a there's generally speaking, a lot of a lot of bad information out there.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: And because I some of it's malevolent trying to take advantage of people, some of it's just a sort of a a sad aspect of human nature that we're human people in general are prone to quick fixes and and and things like that.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: So that's I think that's where a lot of that comes from.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, that's so true.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I also think that a lot of our health and wellness information is coming from media, right?
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: And if you think about like commercials, like I grew up in the 80s and like all the commercials about drinking milk.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: And sure, getting protein and from you know, animal-based products may be part of a healthy diet, but for some people, drinking cow's milk may not be the best option for calcium and protein, for example.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's an interesting point that a lot of these ideas are spread through through the media, and there are different incentives for the people for the people spreading those messages.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: And uh yeah, you know, something I think is very interesting when we consider that that that idea is it's very easy to look back and say this idea or that idea from the past that was so silly and so off the mark, or that the people who were spreading it had some malicious intents.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but I think a more powerful question is to say, in what ways is that happening today?
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's a mistake.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it's all been all the good ideas have been figured out, and only the good ideas are being disseminated today.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: I it immediately made me think of, you know, certainly maybe some in the 80s, not not to the same extent, but the promotion of smoking cigarettes as like a health benefit, you know, that was happening, you know, decades before the 80s, but certainly it was still prevalent and and filtering through at that time.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: Wasn't that long ago.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know that much about it.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: You you you probably know more with work, the work you do, but it seems like that was part of the introduction of vaping.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, there was a lot of messaging around, I don't know if it went so far as it's being good for you, but there were there was a lot of messaging around be around it being bit a lot significantly better for you than smoking.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: And as the bubble is bursting on that messaging, it seems like that might turn out not turn out to be true.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: And at least even if it's not, if vaping turns out to not be as harmful as smoking, it it it's turning out to be significantly harmful.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: I I think that's so that's so true.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of times the spin is like, well, at least this is better than that.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: But you're but it's like, but it's still still not a healthy choice.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're someone who has never really had influences in your life, you know, maybe you haven't had the the upbringing where your parents were focused on nutrition and exercise.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: And and many of us were not, you know, it it's sort of an assumed sense of well-being.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I think about even, you know, coming from the work that I do, working, you know, primarily in schools, right?
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: Whether it's private or or public schools, and there used to be a lot of onus on school to teach you what you needed to know about physical education, about you know, food and all of these things, and the assumption that, all right, well, that's happening there.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: So at home, it doesn't need to necessarily be a priority.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that that's that's interesting.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: And that, yeah, that makes me that you make me think of something I I haven't given too much thought to, but I I think in many ways many people are looking at others to help with this stuff, yeah, whether whether it's looking looking to the schools or looking to looking to the media or within the media to to particular people, to you know what what what we could call a guru or or someone might call an influencer.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um a lot of people sort of hook themselves up to that to that train and say, This is this is where I'm getting all of my information about this topic.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I think sometimes that can be helpful, and sometimes that can be that can be a little a little dangerous.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: And and I think what we need more, what we you know, using the royal, we need more are so a few layers of positive influences, you know, to to pick up a little from our up uh from our from our our our upbringing and to pick up a little from our from our education and to pick up a little from other communities we're members of, and uh have that balance out and then and and have our autonomy throughout this process and to be able to digest all of this helpful information and personalize it to oneself and say, you know, how do I how do I use this to live my life well?
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: So it makes me so curious because I think you were dead on when you said something, and I'm paraphrasing earlier about, you know, you you have to think about who is providing these messages about what's healthy or good for you or not, and how do they stand to benefit, you know, from so for example, if we're talking about cigarettes, who stands to benefit from the promotion of something and from people spending their money on tobacco?
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: And you can just kind of draw that line, but it takes a lot of discernment, right?
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: And and some people might just take that for granted.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: And it makes me think where did this journey start for you where you began to question whether, you know, the information you had was right or not, and say, I need to know more.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: Because clearly from your bio, you've done, you've done many, many, many different pieces of the puzzle for for overall health and well-being for a human body.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's a it's a it's a good observation and a good question.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know the best way into answering it, but I'll I'll start here because I I think this, I think this is a good place to start, which is you know, having significant training in nutrition and exercise science, it would be easy to assume that I think that's the most important stuff.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: And it's definitely important stuff, and it's a big part of the work I do with my clients.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: But anyone who makes a significant dive into wellness, personally and or professionally comes to see very, very, very clearly that there's more to it than that.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: So that that's where I ultimately ended in the realm of ended up in the in the in the place of of being a wellness coach, which essentially means helping people take great care of themselves.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: It basically, which one way I like to think of this is proactively meeting most of your needs most of the time.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um that's that's a a neat orientation.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: To me, that's a that's a practical way of using the pop culture term self-love.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_03: Uh-huh.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: So which I think gets diluted in some cases to mean different things like self-adoration or self-thinking I'm the best and in in some way.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: And really the way I think about it as uh using parenting as a good example.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: When a when a parent is being loving, what they're doing is helping their child proactively meet most of their needs most of the time.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: Because what we know is when a person, child or adult, meets enough of their needs enough of the time, they experience the things we call happiness and health and wellness.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: Uh happiness, life and health could be thought of as as wellness.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: The neat way to think about this is take a take a house plant, it has needs.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: If it's if it's meeting, if its needs are being met, it's a it's perky.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's a perked up plant.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's well.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: If you go away and you forget to water the plant, it wilts.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: If you're away long enough, it it dies.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: We're not much more complicated than that.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's not actually true.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: We're we're we are more complicated than that in in in in in in many ways, but we're not more complicated in the sense that we have needs, and when we meet them, when we we we do well, and when we don't meet them, we we don't do well.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: So being a wellness coach is essentially about helping a person learn to better meet their needs.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: The common ones, you know, nutritious food is a is is a common need, moving your body is a common need.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: That's often where a person starts their work with me.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I really like the idea that how you do one thing is how you do everything, that happens in the course of working with every single one of my clients.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: They can't eat better and exercise more and stop.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: They when they're when they're getting better at meeting those needs, the meeting meeting needs muscle is growing, and they can't ignore that they're not getting enough sleep.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: They can't ignore that there's a great deal of stress in their lives.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: They start to address those things too.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I love that.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll I'll say what you said about proactively meeting most of your needs most of the time.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's such a great bit of advice in it and a great little statement to give people because I think sometimes people don't begin their journey to being more well because they want to just do everything all at once.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: And they want, and like it's like you you, you know, I write goals and objectives as a therapist.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: So very rarely am I writing, you know, doing this at 100%, 100% of the time, independently, no, no supports, like just like that for some is possible, but it's a very small fraction of people who can do that.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: And most likely they're not the people that are coming to you for help.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: And we could be someone who is exceptional at taking care of our body, but maybe their relationships are falling apart, or you know, so I think this flexibility of like, of course, it's gonna come in and out.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: If we're aiming for 75, 80%, hey, that's better than 12%, you know.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: I I really like that.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I I like that you said that it's about self-love and self-love, not in like adoring oneself and being like, oh, I'm so amazing.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's about that that self-parenting.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's so funny because you said the word you said the word parenting, and I had in my head like parenting yourself.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: And and it takes a certain amount of discipline and devotion to make those decisions for yourself.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's where it's so important to work with someone like yourself who is going to give you, you know, the cheat codes.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like you don't have to go deep dive.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: Listen, listener, Jason has already deep dived for you.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: He's been studying this stuff.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I think what's so special about wellness, and what I love about my profession as well, is that from that holistic lens, you're not just like, okay, Jane, you you need to get exercise.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna do three times a week, 30 minutes running.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, okay, Jane, like, what kind of movement makes you feel good?
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what what fits into your schedule?
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna consider the holistic perspective, and that's why the wellness industry is so, so important.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's also so so important to find people like yourself, Jason, who are balancing you know, the factual information, that holistic perspective, and not trying to drive a financial engine.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: So, like you said, there are people in the wellness industry who are more influencers and who are providing advice, you know, on a large scale that can be harmful.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I think this just this beginning piece of advice, most of the time we're I I love, I've heard this said before, like we're just really complicated houseplants, right?
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: You have to water and it's like that is it's so perfect and it's so true.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the imagery really works.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: So what is one of the reasons why people don't start with someone like yourself who is an an expert and a knowledgeable person in the wellness industry?
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: What are the barriers to getting there?
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think I think one barrier to getting to working with a wellness coach is the idea that you should be able to do it by yourself.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: That's a that's a very strong idea.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: Pick yourself up by the bootstraps is a way of saying it.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: The the idea that it's that it makes you weak to to need help with something.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: But I I antidote that with a handful of analogies.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: One I like is if an adult was going to learn a second language, they could these days there are plenty of do-it-yourself opportunities for that.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: Books, apps, all kinds of things, right?
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: Most people would resonate with the idea that if you hired a tutor for six weeks or or or maybe six months or however however big this whatever was warranted based on how big this project was for a given person.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: Almost the way you said it, they they know the pitfalls, they know the they know the things that grease the wheels, they know the common challenges, they know what makes it go easier.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: And they know that not in general, only in general senses, but they know that in specific senses.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: They know that when someone is sitting across from them and they have a certain personality, they have a certain learning style, they know how to teach to that to that learning style, something an app will never be able to do.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's one of the most heartening things about wellness coaching is that it it essentially splits the difference between two ideas, the one idea being that you should be able to do this all by yourself, and the other idea being something like you're a helpless victim, and our environment is so terrible that you have no chance of taking care of yourself.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: Now, there's some truth to both ends of those.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: You no one's going to do it for you.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a level of truth on the one side.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: And our environment makes it very difficult to live well these days.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: Both of those things are true, but taking them to their extreme edges of there's no way you can do this, or you have to do it entirely.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: The only way to do this is to do it entirely by yourself, those cause a lot of people problems.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: The middle path is something like I'll give you another parenting analogy, is it is like training wheels on a on a on a kid's bike.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: The idea is it would be cruel to expect a child to learn to ride a bike by falling down a lot and and and all of the injuries that would come from that.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: It would also be cruel to keep the training wheels on the kid's bike until they were 35.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: So that is the spirit with which a wellness coaching arrangement is presented, is it's silly to expect you to learn to know how to do this, to learn how to do this all by yourself.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm here to help you learn how to do this.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's also silly to assume you can't do this without me and you're gonna need me forever, sort of a sort of a codependent kind of thing.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: And you see that you see people going to Weight Watchers forever.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: You see people unable to exercise unless the fitness trainer is standing next to them.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: Those are they're not really learning eating practices or exercise practices that are autonomous and durable, and and they can do in different circumstances of life.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: They can do them under these very tight, somewhat codependent, you know, they're dependent on these other people doing something for them in order to make them happen.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: So we're but with something like learning to ride a bike, the kid gets that feeling after a number of weeks that dad and mom or taught me how to do this, and now I can do it on my own.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, it's not that's not that's not common in our culture.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: That that there's this there's sort of like allyship.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: So if there was sort of this with with a with sort of a peer-to-peer level to it.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: So, yes, there is the wellness coach and the client, and the wellness coach is the is the authority in the sense that they have a certain expertise about lifestyle improvement that the client doesn't, but we come from the perspective that the client is the expert in their own life, and my expertise is to help them discover their own expertise, so to speak.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I can tell by your nodding that that makes sense.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: It so resonates.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I know.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: I you can't see because I the listener can't see, or the viewer if you're watching on YouTube, and I'm like like my head is bobbing up and down this whole time.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like a bobblehead today because it's resonating so much, Jason.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: But I love that you just said that that the client is the expert in their own life.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel such a kinship in terms of like being an occupational therapist.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: And really, my goal is not to see a child for the rest of their life for OT, or even to continue working on the same thing year after year after year.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like you can only do that with me.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: My goal.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: Is to work myself out of my job.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: That's literally what I'm trying to do every single day.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it doesn't happen in a vacuum.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll make this parallel to like my practice.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: So let's say a child is coming to a sensory clinic to do like a sensory-based occupational therapy.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I, the in the beginning of my career, I did that for a few years.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I think what I noticed even back then when I was newer to the profession is that it doesn't really matter what I can have a child do in a session with me for 30 minutes an hour.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: It matters what they can generalize and what their family has the capacity to uptake at home.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: So that where we want to see the influence is not when they're with me.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: We want to see the influence in their home, in the community, you know, into school, with their relationships and friendships, how well they're able to function and this sort of you know ripple effects into other avenues of their life.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I realize even then there is a bit of a gap if the expectation is that what we do together is where the magic happens.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's really not, it's what gets carried over.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I love the training wheels example.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like we're not gonna keep those training wheels on forever.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: We need to let people have their agency, right?
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: And to be able to do it on their own the best they can most of the time.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: Neat, neat.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's there's an article that I think the last line of the article is health is what happens between doctors' visits.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a powerful, it's it's a it's a powerful message that of course it's not saying that that medical help isn't important.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's incredibly important.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: And we're spending most of our lives outside of outside medical facilities.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so services that help people learn how to live well in their in their real lives, yeah, are are essential and and something that haven't been a big part of the past and something that are there are definitely emerging.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I have to say, I love that we're talking about the allyship and the teaching and the learning, as opposed to talking about nutrition and exercise, which I could talk about all day long.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: But basically, because it's most people know some some good fundamentals about things like that.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it's what the the the missing piece, the the missing piece of the puzzle is uh is people learning that there are there are ways to work smarter, not harder, there are ways to to to get good help, and uh and that that ultimately people can learn to live better, and that does do so much to foster wellness.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, absolutely.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: I was thinking too earlier, you know, you were talking about some of the barriers, and one of them being you should be able to do this yourself, and how much people feel shame for not being able to figure it out on their own, or you know, having these patterns with, you know, I think in particular with nutrition and what we eat and feeling like making it about them having some sort of moral deficit, or there's there's something about them that is just wrong that they can't figure out and they can't do it.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I think, you know, for me, I mean, nutrition is an easy one.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: For me, I think, you know, because we were talking about before we started recording, you know, one of my passions is helping people get better sleep because I recognize, you know, again, in my career working with families in the school, and it's it's a little bit of a dodgy situation to be able to talk about sleep or things happening at home because you know, the the regulation they want you, we're just talking about school, but you know, I would have parents come in to talk about how things are going, what supports can I give you for home.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then and like parent after parent would say, the sleep is just terrible.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: And recognizing that here I am, I have help and support from an OT perspective on how you can get better sleep and how your family can figure out to get better sleep.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: And there's such a limitation in terms of what I can say.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: But nine times out of 10, all it really took was just let me look from an outside lens at what's happening.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_01: What does your schedule look like?
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: And and it becoming, oh, you know, your your child needs more of a windown time.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: So we're gonna, we're gonna turn off any screens and devices two hours before, we're gonna lower the lights, we're gonna have quieter voices, we're gonna bring in some very calming music and a nice routine for bedtime that you keep consistent and let's see where we land after that, you know.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I think when you're stuck in this shame cycle or this, like, I just I just can't do it.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like this just isn't happening for me.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's really hard to envision a solution.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I think this is where people like yourself are so vital because it's not really about, like you said, it's not, it's not the doctor's visits, you know, and and for some people it is also that it is not keeping up with that.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: But a lot of times it's those shame spirals that they're stuck in and just feeling powerless when they really just need a little bit of information and some tweaks in their habits.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: What I hear you saying is that new behaviors form in the soil of acceptance.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it's very common to think that to think the opposite, essentially, that the way to motivate yourself is to be hard on yourself.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so this is something someone can do as a personal practice.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: Someone can practice being more accepting of themselves, and and one way into that is to people are generally more accepting of others than themselves.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: So one way is to practice treating themselves like they treat their friends.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: But having a a professional offer you acceptance is invaluable because it's it's first of all, it's not making excuses for you, it's not letting you off the hook.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's as you mentioned in your example, it's reflecting back the actual situation.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: And there are always elements to the actual situation, almost all of the elements of the actual situation don't reveal an innate character flaw in the person who's struggling with this behavior.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: So just simply by reflecting the circumstances here, you know, if I have someone who's struggling with stress eating and they've had a sick child for six weeks, we make that part of the conversation.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: Because where the what they're coming to the conversation is I'm having those cookies because I'm a fill-in-the-blank pejorative, right?
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: Because they're sort of the they're they're naming their character flaws.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not my job to make excuses for my clients, it's my job to help them make the lifestyle improvements they want to make.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: But but that only happens in in a place of honesty in all directions.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: So we need to be honest about it's it's harder to stay away from junk food cravings when you haven't been getting good sleep because you've been caring for a sick child for six weeks.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: So let's talk about that and let's not stop there.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: Let's then say, what could you do while you're continuing to take care of your sick child that would help you continue to help them while taking, I know you'll appreciate this, five or 10% better care of yourself.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't need to go from you need to be the superhero parent and the superhero in improving your eating habits.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: And for people listening, that does not mean accepting low standards or mediocrity, because 10% turns into another 10%, turns into another 10% eventually in good time.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: We have to learn.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think that you'll appreciate this as an occupational therapist, you have to learn arithmetic before algebra, before trigonometry, before calculus.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: And what people are often trying to do with things like eating habits and exercise habits is say, on Monday, I'm gonna be a master of calculus.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a problem.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: We don't, we don't, we don't, we don't learn that way.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: I think, oh my gosh.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_01: I I never have I ever written down so many one-liners, Jason, but you have such a really great way of putting things together.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I I'm like furiously scribbling over here.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_01: Not an innate character flaw was one that they wrote down.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: And then new behaviors form in the soil of acceptance.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_01: Is that something you just came up with on the fly?
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: Or is that some is that like something you've like perfected?
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: I just I I'm a word nerd.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a word nerd.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: I love when words come together beautifully.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I just have to pause as like a word geek.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: And like, how did you how did you come across that that phrasing?
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: Well, first of all, I say I'm a fellow word geek because because words matter, especially when we're creating new concepts, we need the words or the phrases that describe that that make help people understand them.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um now that did just come to me now, the the the soil idea.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: But something I think about a lot and write about a lot, I I call the acceptance paradox.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: And that is that when you accept yourself, you can better you're you're in a better place to better yourself.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: I I think many people listening will say, I've never heard it said that way, but that makes sense.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: Here's a way it makes sense.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: If you if someone had a boss that's always pointing out their mistakes, it's not that it's not that motivating.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: If someone's had a boss who's always uh catching them doing things well, that's very motivating.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: If someone's it's outside of bosses, it can be a parent, this can be a mentor of any kind that they see the best in you on your good days and your bad days.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: They the that kind of relating often makes a person feel like they can run through a brick wall.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like if they if they believe in me that much, uh I can do anything.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: And and a big part of that is is acceptance.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's accept it's the opposite of expecting someone to be perfect.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_00: Acceptance is it simply means like embracing humanity or something like that, right?
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's that that that we're that we make mistakes, that we're works in progress.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: And people don't expect that when they come to working on their eating habits and exercising habits.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: I think by the time someone comes to me or or many wellness coaches, they are expecting that.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: They've been they've been shown that that's something they'll get in that kind of a of a professional relationship.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_00: But typically what they're expecting is something more like uh when when what they're expecting from pop culture is something more like the food police and the boot camp instructor, sort of to be sort of yelled at or and scolded.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: And and certainly and and not accept it, right?
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_00: To be to to have your your slips magnified, amplified.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I I hope it was clear in some in one of my previous answers.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: I I'm never pretending that people aren't making mistakes.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: I I let people talk about their their their the the their slips, but only in the larger context of the things they're also doing well.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: So they're it's the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_00: And the the whole truth is never that the last two weeks you haven't done anything good because of your immense, innate character flaws.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_00: And that's often how a person is is orienting themselves in a process like this.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it makes me realize how much of focusing on your health and well-being is really driven by your sense of self.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: That is incredibly well said.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's at the bottom of my work with every single one of my clients.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: And in each arrangement, it's talked about differently.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_00: Some one of my clients will come in on the first session, and they're saying, I know I need to learn to love myself.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_00: Someone's coming in on the first session, and a statement like that would absolutely make them cringe.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's not their orientation.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's they don't they don't use words like that, they don't think like that, and they might make tremendous lifestyle improvements and still not use words like that or think like that.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what, but whether they use words like that or think like that, they're learning to do that.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_00: They're learning to take it back, they're learning to proactively meet more of their needs more of the time.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: They are, this is another phrase I like, they're coming into better harmony with them, with themselves.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: And that I I I'm so heartened that has become that it's been a major part of our conversation because to use a phrase, it's where the magic happens.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_00: People learn to eat better, not because they get better nutrition information.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: People learn to exercise, learn to be more consistent with exercise, not because they get good exercise information, but because they come into harmony with themselves in in some way.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_00: This is the way to sort of connect the the host plant analogy can be sort of biological if you leave it there.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_00: But the the catalyst between that makes it so someone knows what their needs are and starts to meet some of them, starts to meet more of them over time.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_00: The catalyst to that is something like self-love, harmony with oneself, or however words one would.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: You're you're doing you're doing something on your behalf.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: And that is not a an that is not something that's not a mechanical opportunity, that is an emotional opportunity, and it's it is it it does contain love in it in in some fashion.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I love that so much.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's really the the idea of coming into better harmony with yourself, and that's it.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_01: And it really, I think it simplifies it, but not in an oversimplifying way, but in like very often that's gonna be where the work needs to happen and where the magic happens, you know, and it's it's not, I love how you said that too.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's not the mechanical piece of like knowing how to take care of a plant, it's a little bit more refined than that.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_01: There's a little more that's happening.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_01: And as an occupational therapist, you know, three of my you know driving values are holistic, humanistic, and developmental.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, when I'm when I'm working with a child, or even if I'm working with with an adult and and helping them, though those are always the lenses I'm going through, holistic, humanistic, developmental.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_01: There's a bigger picture.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_01: We're all human.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_01: And being human means, you know, one, there's there's a function, there's the structure and function of our bodies and how we function best.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_01: But there's also this sense of like there are a lot of influencing factors in our lives.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_01: And and, you know, you you gave the description of a parent who's been dealing with a sick child, and especially, oh my gosh, I work with families with children with multiple disabilities and needs, and their health and well-being is often so deprioritized.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_01: And and, you know, where where is it that they get, this is what I wonder sometimes, where is it that they get that like filling of their own cup, you know, how do they find that?
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_01: And how do they even, you know, because so many times the challenges are so great and the the amount of commitment and time that they can feel like, I don't even have time for that.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that that too can be a challenge.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're a listener and you can't relate to that, having aging parents or, you know, a spouse or someone in your life that's going through cancer treatment.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, when those factors happen in your life, it's not a moral failing that you can't also keep up with your exercise and well-being.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_01: And certainly there are people who can, and gosh, I applaud them.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_01: But but at the same time, for the majority of us, we're going to struggle because that is a natural experience as a human to only have so much capacity.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_01: And unless we're actively building our capacity, our sustainability, we're not going to get there.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_01: And the idea that we're doing this independently is, I think, a foregone conclusion.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like that, that is just not, it's not effective.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's not working.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_01: And it's really counterproductive when people are beating themselves up because they can't just figure it out.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that really gives us a great opportunity for you to share a little bit about what you do and how people can connect with you, Jason, because I think you have such a beautiful way of explaining through these beautiful analogies how this works and why there might be some barriers.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I think if we somehow like melt down those barriers a little bit and give people the opportunity to breathe and just say, all right, let's just accept that this is where I am right now.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_01: And then, and then it's almost like, okay, and then we've we've all addressed the elephant in the room.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_01: We've all, you know, put a little bit of love on our hearts from that place, you know, how people can start to make changes that are actually going to stick, not be a temporary change in lifestyle.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_00: The thing I think the first thing I'd like to offer is if people go to my website and I'll I'll share that in a moment, they can find a special report I wrote titled, How to Form Self-Care Habits That Truly Stick.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_00: And what they'll get from that is uh more of the mechanics of what we're talking about.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_00: We talked a good amount about uh how being in an allyship with a wellness coach can uh help a person make lifestyle improvements.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_00: In that special report, people will get more information about how to work some of the change process.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_00: They'll get some good practical change psychology.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_00: If people are interested, I also make a presentation with the same title four times a year, and they'll make they'll they'll find that information on my website.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I should say that the name of my business is Puvima, P-U-V-E-M-A, and my website address is simply Puvima.com.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a great place to to find me.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_00: And people can find me on on all of the major social media channels with my full name, Jason Gutman, uh spelled G-O-O-T-M-A-N.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_01: What do you have coming up, Jason?
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_01: What it what is 2026 feeling like for you?
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_01: I know there's there's a lot happening in the world, depending on where you're located.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'm in New Jersey, in the United States, so the experience we're having in the United States is definitely eye-opening, interesting, picking some good descriptors.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_01: So for people who are probably feeling a sense of confusion, disillusionment.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I think in those times, at least I can say for my own historical patterns before I really put a lot of time into myself, that's like, well, giving up the exercise and the diet because the world is going someplace, and I why even why bother?
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_01: So, what is your antithesis to?
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_01: That and and how in 2026 can people prioritize their health and well-being?
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think there are two I two ideas resonate with me when I'm thinking about your question.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_00: One is more of an old-fashioned idea, meaning, meaning it's been around a while, and it's usually said something like charity starts at home.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so that would be if you're concerned about our larger world, continue to be concerned about our larger world and take care of yourself, take care of your friends, take care of your relatives, take care of your customers or your clients.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's tactile.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_00: You can you can feel the impact you're having immediately.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas the larger world stuff can feel no, because it is.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_00: It is out of the out of the control of any of us as individuals.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_00: But uh so I would say, you know, take care of your proximal environment.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_00: Tend to your proximal environment as as well as you can.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_00: I think that will be grounding, uh, I think that's grounding for a lot of people.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_00: The second idea is is a newer idea.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_00: You you hear people use the I think the the phrase is touch grass.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I I like that because a lot of our engagement in our larger world these days is through the internet.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_00: And it it can it can feel abstract and it can help to literally put your feet in the grass or put your feet uh lucky to live on the coast when when it's warm enough to put my feet in the sand or put my feet in the in the ocean.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_00: But but use that phrase figuratively too.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, regular exercise is a good way to quote unquote touch grass in the sense that you're you get in your body, you get back into your body, you're you're breathing hard, your muscles are getting tired, you're sweating.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_00: And there's something about those in your body experiences that can be very grounding as well.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_01: That oh my gosh, I love, I think those are that's like a whole, I mean, just take that.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_01: Just take that piece of it.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, that could be a lot for people to go on.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_01: And where where can people follow you, Jason?
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_01: If they want to pick up more of your wisdom and find the best ways to connect and and to be able to, they can absolutely go to your website and we'll make sure to put that in the show notes.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_01: But any place else on you know social media, anyplace you want people to connect with you.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_00: No, my website and social media in general are great, but a few highlights would be I mentioned the special reports on my website.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_00: In addition to the one I mentioned, there are six other ones that get into some some cool topics.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_00: One is how to permanently overcome yo-yo dieting, one is how to permanently overcome emotional eating.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_00: So we sort of touched on we we teased those topics a little.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_00: So people who, if they hear those those terms and say, oh, that's something I could use some help with, they'll they'll find that.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_00: I love to write.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I it's hard to be a word lover and not or love to write.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I I write and publish a new article once a month.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a good bank now on my website.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_00: Probably I'd have to count.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's been a little while since I've counted, but at least more than three dozen.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_00: So if someone's if someone is you we're gonna get caught in rabbit holes from time to time.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_00: Why not get into a rabbit hole that's relatively nourishing?
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_00: Because people can expect writing that's in line with this conversation.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I love that.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_01: I think I think that's great.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and we definitely there are many, many rabbit holes.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, with the advent of the internet, the rabbit holes are just pervasive.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_01: They're every place.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you you really, and I think, yes, filling your head with some positivity.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think maybe that's like a good third, you know, way to challenge, you know, sort of the narrative.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I I love what you said about like care for your proximal environment, the people in it, your home, your, you know, touch grass, get out of nature, exercise, get into your body, and then and then that that advice, like, put the positive things in your mind because our minds are so good at thinking and spinning.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_00: And that idea that nature abores a vacuum.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're not putting something nourishing into your mind, something else is going to find its way into your mind.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so you sort of can't have a neutral mind.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_00: So you so feed it, feed it well, right?
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_00: I did want to mention another something someone could find valuable that's very bite-sized is Monday through Friday on LinkedIn, I do a I do a poll, and it's in the form of essentially a reflection question.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really not a poll to get opinions, it's a poll to get a person to reflect on uh on their self-care.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a neat if someone is following me, the way the algorithm seems to work, if you're engaging in my polls, you'll probably see it on a on a on a regular basis.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a neat way to have five minutes of reflection on eating habits, exercise habits, sleep habits, other self-care habits, things like that.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you so much, Jason.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm like very excited.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_01: I really have loved this conversation.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I think for the listener, if you were paying attention and taking notes, or not, or you could always go back and take notes, I think you've really picked up on the flavor of how someone like Jason, who's a coach and who focuses on health and wellness, is really coming from a very holistic perspective.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_01: And once you have built that deep acceptance that here is where I am right now, you can start to come to a deeper understanding of what might be helpful for me.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe that's a good first step for people to think, okay, hearing all of this, what might be helpful for me?
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I really love that you've given people a lot of entry points into how that can happen to read something, to engage on LinkedIn, to come to some of your talks that you give where you're you're speaking to this.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I really, I really love the kindness that is sort of underpinning everything you're talking about.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_01: And that um maybe for too long, we've sort of seen health and well-being as like it's gotta be boot camp.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_01: You've got to be sort of like an authority figure come and tell you how wrong you are, beat you down so that you finally do the right thing.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_01: I know for me, I have a little bit of a problem with authority.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_01: So that does not work for me.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's a complete turn off.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think the approach of let's look at these little pivots and these little changes that we can make that are going to be things you can actually uptake and feel success in and build on it from that foundational level.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think you you alluded to that a little bit just a few minutes ago.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_01: But I really thank you for this conversation and I really encourage the listener or the viewer, if this has really resonated with you and this is the time that you're feeling, you know what, it's time for me to really get some of these areas under control for myself because I care about myself.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_01: And part of the way I look at things is that if we want to make a difference in the world, and I hear that in what you're talking about too, Jason, not just about I'm gonna coach people and help client by client, but really just changing the whole environment of health and well-being and what that looks like, that the way that we can be helpful in the world is to really take care of ourselves and start with our home environments and our family systems and our communities and kind of branch out from there.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_01: Because when we have that foundation and we we have a sustainable lifestyle where we're doing things well most of the time, we're better able to serve humanity ultimately and to and to lay better foundations.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I think it's sort of the the funniest or most ironic that a lot of times people in service professions are not great at taking care of themselves.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_01: So this isn't for people who just don't know and don't have the information.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's also for people who have really spent a lot of time in their minds and and doing what they think is the right thing in their work and not giving enough time and energy to themselves.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I see you nodding.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, that's all that's all incredibly well said.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm also very thankful for the conversation we had.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_00: And and I'll I'll echo that idea that I I think it's I mentioned when we were talking before we were officially talking that wellness coaching is is an emerging allied medical profession and that it's probably going to take a generation before it's what we might consider established.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_00: And part of what the profession is very good at is teaching this new orientation, this orientation rooted in acceptance, compassion, and kindness.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I will say, not only because it feels good, but because it works.
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so the more people hear conversations like ours, I think it helps not only any individuals that'll help, but it does help to change our our culture at a neat, neat, neat root level that is deeper than changing the food systems and changing our environment so they're more conducive to moving our bodies, those are important too.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_00: But we've been able to sort of dissect out this component of our culture, which is uh almost a dysfunctional individualism.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_00: And as it relates to to making the kinds of lifestyle improvements we're we're talking about.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I'll add that the antidote to that isn't only wellness coaches.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_00: It is the it it and it isn't only wellness professionals.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_00: This is also this also speaks to family environments and school environments and commute community environments of of all kinds.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_00: And but yes, if if if anyone takes away from today that oh, that you're gonna love this.
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it's it's it it's it's exceptionally corny, but in some of my writing and in some of my on some of my PowerPoint slides, I have the saying, wellness starts with we.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_00: So you know, like, and that is a point you were speaking to in your in your closing comments there, Kelly.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a neat someone I I was almost I almost wanted to bring that up way back when I said self-care, self-love, even is about proactively meeting most of your needs most of the time.
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_00: That can sound like an individual assignment, but it but we're we're social animals.
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_00: So yes, each person needs to proactively need meet enough of their needs, enough of their time, enough of the time to be well.
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_00: But it's that but that's but that's it's not a solo activity.
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_00: That that is something that's done through our uh through our through your relationships.
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I think that's a that's such a great exclamation point on the conversation.
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't mean to, I really was careful.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't want to add uh too much more as we're wrapping up, but but that was felt felt important to share.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_01: I I feel like it is it's a very valid and vital point.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_01: I think what you said, dysfunctional individualism, and that the the resolution of that and the revolution is not just the wellness, you know, wellness coaching in its own.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's addressing systems, it's addressing environments, home, school, everywhere.
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_01: And that that I was very much exercising my head up and down, and wellness starts with wheat.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_01: I love a corny phrase, so so that is very much appreciated by me personally, but I think that's such a great punctuation on our conversation, Jason, because this is where it starts.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_01: And for people who want a better world and a better place, this is a great place to start and it is achievable, and it is in relationships and connection with other people and community of support, because we don't have to be drawing just from our own cup in order to serve some of those systems or ourselves.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_01: That there can be a community cup and relationship cubs, and you know, not even going into the spiritual side of things, which is also a passion of mine, but that that this is really how we start to change systems is by changing ourselves and and taking the layers out.
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not a dysfunctional individualism to focus on oneself and it doesn't happen in isolation from other people.
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's with together.
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I I applaud that and I I appreciate it.
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_01: I do think it's such a fantastic way to close out our conversation.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_01: You I'm gonna give you the final, the final statement, Jason, because I know you've got something really good to share with us that's gonna stick.
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's uh that's a that's a good challenge.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_00: I first just want to thank you for the conversation, not only for the fact that it'll be heard by others, uh, but it it edified me in in and of itself.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_00: And that that speaks to our our social nature.
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's it's the best way to it's not it's one of the best ways to amplify good ideas and make them even stronger.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm feeling like this is a good note to end on.
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm confident that both you and I are gonna walk away today and do even even better things in our work.
• 1:00:33
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I think the thing for the for for your listeners that I put out there is in whatever way serves you, try doing something, try doing, try doing something a little better over the next week or so and lean into some of the ideas that Kelly and I talked about and and see if they're helpful for you.
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's fantastic.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you again for being here.
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, listener, for staying with us to the end of this fantastic conversation.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like I would love to invite you to come back, Jason, and maybe we can tackle one area of your practice and what you do so that we could, you know, give a little bit more of a bite-sized piece of what you're doing.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, yes, absolutely, there's so much in here.
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_01: So find what resonates, give it a give it a go, give it a little practice.
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I invite you all to check out what Jason has going on, read some of his articles, and tune in again.
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_01: And if you really resonated with this conversation, I invite you please follow the podcast, share this episode with other people.
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_01: And when you have extra time, pop down and give us five stars and some comments because it gets this information in front of more people.
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_01: And if that is the smallest bit that you can contribute to raising humanity, go for it.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I would appreciate it.
• 1:01:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I know Jason would as well.
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you so much.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_01: And we'll see you next time on the podcast.
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_01: Bye for now.