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EP51: There’s No Communication Without Emotional Safety (w/ my husband) · Behind Every Great Man

• Jessica Zubchevich: Behind every great man is a great confident exceptional woman. Hi and welcome to Behind Every Great Man. I am Jessica, your host. This is my husband, Keith. Thank you, Keith, for being here. Come into the studio, aka our third floor bedroom. The attic. You know, my video fee is higher than my audio podcast fee, just so that we're clear. We hit record and then you tell me this? The best time. Okay. Well, I'll have to deal with him later. You're in trouble. My lawyers. You have to deal with my lawyers. Don't get kicked off before we even get started. there are so many episodes I want to do with you. There's so much I want to talk to you about. I really wanted to start with communication. And then it just wasn't hitting it. I'm thinking, no, it's much deeper than that. I want you to speak into something deeper. And that is emotional safety because you can be an incredible communicator. You can have all the tools. And If it is not emotionally safe, it if if it is not safe on the receiving end, then they're not communicating anything. They're not saying anything. So it's irrelevant. Communication isn't the problem. Safety is. It's the precursor. Right. And I want you to speak into that. Specifically from the husband's perspective, what makes you feel safe? To share. And then what makes it not safe for you to share? Again, I'll point out to your listeners and mo and viewers that this is your this is a lifestyle thing. So this is not your podcast. I know we talk about this all the time on the breakfast table or at the dinner table or when we have tea time in the morning. So this is something that I think, you know, you've spent a lot of time thinking about, I'd spend a lot of time thinking about, and we actually do it. And it's not just communication, because we're both great communicators. Like I I I think I put us both in an exceptional category of communication. You may have me be. I hate saying that. Like that's really hard for me to admit, but you frickin' might be, and that's wild. I'll take that. I will take it. I would take it. The so but I think the as I call the precursor to to communication is a safe place to communicate. Because if you don't have a safe place to communicate, the communication never happens. And that's the thing that I I I I feel in our relationship that I've never ever felt in my life before. And it You know, you're You've never felt what? This the the the the ability to communicate like I can with you. The and again, my I'm the same communicator. It's this it's the emotional security and safety that you create that enable me to fill that space with what I want to say and and bring myself completely to it. Because that's essentially what communication is, is I want to articulate my authentic self. I want to be able to communicate my true and authentic self. And communication breaks down when you start creating an alter ego or you start saying things that you don't really feel, or worse, that you lie by omission. You don't say what's on your mind, you don't say what's inside. And so great communicators can often not be great communicators just because they don't feel that they can communicate. Do you think that that can be misinterpreted as a bad communicator or he doesn't know how to communicate when in reality it's not safe for him. He doesn't feel like he can tell the truth because of what's waiting for him on the other end. Yes. That's why I call it a precursor. It's the you you cannot have great communication without the safe place to do it. So and that's the thing people often miss is, you know, I hear all the time people, he's not a good communicator. She's not a good communicator. But then you look at the person saying it. And this is where the it I I attribute this to you and and and what you do for me. There's two things about you that I would say women need to understand if you're going to have your man be completely transparent and communicate everything. One is lack of judgment. I lit you're the least judgmental person I know. I've never met anyone who judges l l little as you do. You you genuinely have an authentic interest in everybody. And more importantly, with me, I know you have a genuine authentic interest into who I am and and how I am and how I do things. And so therefore I know you're not going to judge me. The second is as I said, you have an authentic interest in me. You really want to know. And when you have you have a desire to want to know with the lack of judgment, you create that two-dimensional space that now I know that if I want to say something to you, I can say it. It doesn't mean that it's easy. Again, back to the communicator. And it's also up to the to to the husband to be able to have the courage to still communicate. It's it's scary because you're not conditioned. We live in a society that's all judgment. We live in a society that's all standards and that's all, you know, blueprints and cookie cutters and this is how you behave and this is how you do it. When men have something that isn't they don't feel comfortable, like maybe I'm different. Maybe the way I like to do things, or maybe my interests, or maybe the way I'm feeling is not n socially acceptable. And we and again, because we live in a in a judgmental world, we have that barrier, we have that block put up. And so wives By the way, both ways, with husbands who do this for wives, but wives, if you really want your husband to really lean into communication, you've got to prove lack of judgment. You've got to prove that you're genuinely interested in what no matter what he says, you have to give him the safe space to be able to say it and and and process it. And then from there, it's all it's all habit. It becomes comfortable. Does it matter how the smaller things are received as to whether somebody's going to share bigger things? No, it's all the same because it's all the same re reaction. It's the same stimuli that I get back from you, no matter what it is. And by the way, yeah, you're right. If it's a small reaction, a small thing, and the reaction isn't good, then of course I'm gonna do the math and go, wow, if that I have ten times bigger statement to make and it's gonna be a ten times bigger impact to me. That sometimes can be the mental math. But but I think the the the converse is also true. 'Cause I'll I'll also put out there that when I come home and I don't want to say something, like in and when I come home and you're like, How was your day? And I'm like, Good. And you can look me in the eye and know I I just I I don't want I don't want to talk about it. Like I just don't wanna I don't wanna say anything. You don't also react with that. Like, you're not communicating. I know there's something more in press, press, press, press, press. So you give me the space to choose when I communicate, step one on the small things, because it's usually the small things. and therefore I know that you respect me. You respect my inner dialogue, you respect my inner you know, peace. Inner process. And then when you respect that. And then again back to the okay, now I'm I'm gonna I'm ready to communicate, but you have genuine interest. And the second is you don't judge. And so I think that's what creates the basis or the foundation or like I said, the precursor for for healthy communication. So I think the the big thing is about perception. Like when whenever I'm gonna say something to you, and by the I've communicated things you I've never communicated to anybody with confidence. And again, it wasn't overnight. It was built up over time for me to feel confident that I can communicate to you. And I think from the woman's perspective, I think it's really important to have that perception, which is how do I perceive what he's telling me? Because if it's anything he says, it's just gonna rile you up. Of course. Like you need to be able to understand what is really a an affront to you, what is something that affects your life. Yeah. And what is something that he's just wanting to share. Yeah. And and and really make sure you have that key, that you have those layers gr fully grasp because If it's something in his past that he's just wanting to share, then it's something he wants to get off his chest. He wants to bond with you. I you know, if I'm gonna share something that I did in my past, I didn't do it to you, but it's something that I I feel like you need to know about me. And I need to be able to share that for you to truly know who I am. And and in some cases, some of the things I shared with you may have scared you. You you'd be like, well, you know, you did it before, you'll do it again. That's bad perception. Like that again, how you perceive what he's saying is gonna be the most important thing and accept that, okay, this is Who he was, or this is who I was, this is things I did in my past. And by the mere fact I'm sharing them means that I'm wanting to work on them. I want them, I want them out in the open. I don't want them in hidden spaces. So first thing is if he's if he shares with something that's in his past, man, just lean into it and listen. And the same with you, when you share things with me that are in your past, like I know that you want to just get off your chest. I I I love everything about you. And and women should know that, that everything that brought that man to you. Is is God's broken road. And no matter what he did in his past, the the the point is that it led to you. So you can't hate something that led to you because change any variable in our past and it might change where you end up. So anything in anything in the past should be embraced as a collection of who you are and how you got to me. And I love that. And everything you've that's ever done you've ever done, or anything you've ever, ever done in your past, I I love it all because it led you to me. The the second one is if you share something That is deeply personal to him and that is part of your relationship, meaning it's it's something that he wants to be or do, or it's something that's inside of him that that must coexist in the relationship. Then it's what do you mean? It could be anything. It could be a it could be a hobby, it could be it could be a health, you know, thing, it could be a diet thing, it could be sexual, it could be anything. Yeah. That if he shares it, then it's in your relationship. Then then the which is you do this so well is You you internalize it and think about it first, which is, okay, how do I feel about this? Like eliminate judgment. Like I said, no judgment. But just process. If this is going to be in our relationship, how do I feel? Not not that it's happening to you, but this is just who he is. And and again, if it's something that you didn't know from before and it's something that you're learning now, there's always gonna be new things you learn about the other. Yeah, but there is an there is a problem when It's something that wasn't communicated with you that you should know that it does directly affect you. We talked about it, for example, like if you were gay and we got married and I didn't know that's a problem. That's the third one. Okay, right. The third one is that it's a direct affront to you. Yes. Like it is something that you cannot accept. That's why I said there's there's three areas. There's before you, there's with you, and there's to you. If it's just with you and it's something that That your husband wants to do. And again, I can I don't I don't want to put limits or even say what those things can be, but it's just something where it's who I am. Right. And it doesn't do anything to you. Then you have to really internalize those things and accept who he is and then figure out, okay, what do I do now? It could be something like say on faith, I I want to become a Christian. Or I don't want to go to church. Or I or I don't want to go to church. That does affect you, but this is something that this person is sharing, that this is their personal their feelings, their beliefs, and it changes, it evolves. And how do I feel about that? There's no greater love than the sacrificial love. I mean, if everybody was perfect and perfectly aligned and everything lined up and everything was it was was copacetic, then okay, great. I love you, you love me, and it's really easy. But man, that those moments when you accept your your your spouse or your partner, your husband, your wife, and they say something that you don't like and maybe it's not like ideal for you, but you learn to love them anyway, that's true love. So that's the second category. The third one is that which happens to you. Which means, you know, you you use, you know, being gay or or or you know, I drugs or alcohol and you know, there's and there's all kinds of byproducts that come from all those things that as the spouse I don't want in my life. Right. And so that's what I said. Then it becomes a function of you have to solve for those things. And those are the things that I think require the most work and probably therapy and should not be done alone. But the other two You know, I think can be easily worked on. And the majority of the problems in marriages, I believe, happen in the first two categories. So I think a majority of it is those first two. And it just requires a again, lack of judgment and a and an ability to just want to understand and love the person for who they are and what they've been through. I shared with you when we were dating something that I was so nervous to share with you that was potentially l relationship. Changing where or you view me differently. If you remember, I sat on the kitchen counter at our house. I was so nervous, shaking, my palms were sweaty. I broke down halfway through telling you the story, telling you about it. I just remember you came in for a hug. You held me, you held my hand while I finished getting it out. And I was so thankful. For how you received it, for how you made me feel. I was so nervous thinking, how is he gonna react? I was thinking the worst. And it was quite the opposite. It was met with such love and care and compassion and patience. And then I thought, man, there's nothing I can't share with this guy. If he's receiving it something like this in such a graceful way. Man, I can talk about anything and I do. When somebody is so vulnerable and they're in such a vulnerable state like that, they don't know how it's gonna be received. Even stopping and saying, Hey, I I can see this is really difficult for you. I want you to know that you're safe. It's okay. I'm gonna take it. I just want you, I just wanna listen. I want to hear what you have to say. And maybe you gotta own shit from the past. I know it hasn't always been like that for you. I know that I've been critical. I know that I've been judgmental. I know that I've made it about me instead of making it about you. Or it now turned on my emotions and how I was feeling about it. And then I totally took the spotlight off of what you were trying to share. That's the mistake. Owning that. Like I know it's been like that. I want you to know I'm aware of that. That wasn't okay. And I want to make it right. That's the back to the reaction. I think by the way, the situation you're talking about, it could be anything. You're right. I I I can assure you and I can guarantee you and promise you that there's nothing I could learn about you that I won't love, embrace, and support and care. And it's because I love you. Like it and that's what you just mentioned. Like the ability for you to love and embrace everything about the other person, it's so important for that to be the number one priority. It can't be I love him. If he has the right child. I love him if he doesn't make mistakes. I love him if he doesn't do this. I love him I love him if nothing changes, everything just stays the same. The old joke that women men marry women they hope never change and women marry men they hope they can change. That's true. At least that's what I've always been told. So but I think that's that the the the key there is that you you ha the love has to be first. I love you more than literally anything. I don't mean like something. Well, those are the vows that we took, right? Absolutely. And that means anything I learn, anything I hear, anything that happens, I love you more than that. It's not anything is in, well, most things. So I think that's the first thing is that you have to establish a love for the other person. And I'll give you the litmus test that that you'll have whether you're there or not. If your partner shares something with you that normally would have freaked you out, but that like brings you to tears because you feel for them that empathetic response. versus the vic you know the victim response, you're doing this to me? you're telling me this. You know you've achieved the point of health when they tell you something and it just makes you want to hug them, which is what I did. I it didn't you could tell me anything. I'm I'm gonna hug you because of the fact that I know two things. One, all of those things led you to me. And number two, I love that about you and that I will care for you and make sure that you never feel any kind of way about those things and leave them in the past. That don't they're never coming into our relationship. They're not coming forward. They're not coming into our present. And that comes from the space. And you know, the ability for you to feel comfortable to be able to do that. And then my reaction that I love you more than anything, including what you could tell me. And I know you feel the same way about me. I I tell you things and I know that you're going to respond with care. You're going to respond with thoughtfulness, empathy, and without judgment. And again, if you can do those things, man, it leads to such incredible relationships and incredible relationship dynamics because a love that you can feel that is so pure, and the love that you feel that is so nonjudgmental and so accepting is a powerful love. Because the other kind of love is that it's conditional. That's true unconditional love. Yeah. The other part is conditional. If you really love your partner unconditionally, then it has no conditions. W what you learn, what he did, what he does, who he is now and his changes as he goes into life. And if your love is cond conditional and well, I I like or I don't like that anymore, then your love is not unconditional. Yeah. And to feel unconditional love is a very powerful thing. True. If a woman is watching and asking, why is my husband not sharing? I feel the reframe on that and what they should be asking is what is it like to communicate with me? And that is a that is a hard question to ask. Because as men, we're not raised to communicate like that. Like we, you know, we come from the greatest generation. At least my my you know, my my parents and grandparents were the greatest generation, right? There's no no crying, like you know, none none of that stuff. Like it go to work and you know, make money, raise your raise your family. So I think men generally aren't necessarily all raised with a communication. I was fortunate enough to my dad was an My dad was an incredibly emotional father. My dad was an incredible alpha male communicating, loving, supportive father. That's why you are. I had the perfect role model. Yes. So not everybody has not everybody has that. And that's why women need to understand that if you you have to look at where he comes from. And that's why I said if if he was raised, there's a little boy in there that doesn't know how to communicate. And it's your job to get him to to do that. It's your job to get him to feel and and to express himself because he was never taught. So now it's Part of your relationship that you have to understand that this is who he is and that you have to l teach him in very baby in baby steps. Because you go back to when he was a child and told, Don't, you can't say that, don't say that. Or his friends would pick on him, you're such a sissy, you're so weak. Well, those are conditions that are built into the human brain that build the walls that say, Okay, it's not safe for me to communicate at all. Yeah. So sometimes you even have to go further, and this is where it comes back to what is your marriage and your relationship worth to you? That's the ultimate question. Is it? Again, is it conditional? Like, I I I'm not going that far. I'm not gonna be kind of works. Not my fault. I didn't do that. Okay, great. Well, you'll still be in divorce or you're still gonna be miserable. So it doesn't matter who started it, it it's who gets to finish it. Right. It may have started before you, but lean into him and and and understand where he is and his own own ability to communicate and then as you said, then start to look at yourself and say, Am I safe to communicate with? Mm-hmm. And I will guarantee you that that between those two things that's where most women when they say my husband doesn't communicate at all. It's one of those two things. I promise you it's one of those two things. In some cases, women may have a husband that, you know, there's a past and there's a perception that no, this is who he is and he's wronged me. And you there there could be things you gotta undo. We we we in fairness, the only thing I would say that we probably have different is we didn't have to undo things. You know, we came into a very healthy relationship, very healthy as each other, very healthy people. So Our past. We have our past, but we don't have our relationship baggage like that. And so I would just caution too that, you know, men have to be strong in this dynamic. They have to be strong in this conversation. They have to be strong in this effort. And women have to be soft and receptive. And and I think it and that comes back to the masculine, feminine. That's a whole other episode we need to do. We need to leave like a six part series on that. Absolutely. And I'm in ready. Okay, but now if you're charging all these crazy rates, who does that to their wife? Is there anything else you want to speak into as far as safety and anything that you want to cover that we haven't? But everything can be looked at upstream. And I always say like the problem that you're dealing with is usually not the superficial problem that it looks like. There's gonna be something further upstream that you need to solve for. Facts. And if it's not communication then that you go upstream and do I have a space to communicate? If you go further upstream, you're both of your personalities. So never look at the problem and fight over a specific problem. Always start looking at contributing factors or what I call precursor things. Right. That that make that a problem and solve it upstream and you'll end up solving it in the in the moment. I feel like that's exactly why I wanted to do an episode on this rather than communication. He's not communicating. If you swim upstream, if the precursor is safety, does he feel safe? To tell you the truth. Period. Thanks for coming on, Keith. To the studio. Yes. Do you like it? Yeah, I do. So it's very comfortable. You'll come back? Anytime. Okay. Thanks for joining us on this week's podcast episode. You can find more episodes of Behind Every Great Man on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And if this spoke to you, please subscribe and share it with a friend. Thanks again, and we'll see you next week.