Latest / Blockchain Germany – Web3 Startups, Crypto Innovation & Venture Capital by Startuprad.io™ / Negotiate Like the FBI: Matthias Bullmahn for Founders
Transcript
- WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:20.080 <v Music> 00:00:20.150 --> 00:00:23.790 <v Speaker1>Hello and welcome, everybody. This is Joe from StartupRate.io, 00:00:23.990 --> 00:00:27.830 <v Speaker1>your gateway to the world of startups, tech and innovation across Germany, 00:00:28.250 --> 00:00:31.150 <v Speaker1>Switzerland and Austria with a global perspective. 00:00:31.770 --> 00:00:37.050 <v Speaker1>Today's guest brings a razor sharp mind, FBI level training and a whole lot 00:00:37.050 --> 00:00:39.670 <v Speaker1>of real world wisdom to the microphone. 00:00:40.150 --> 00:00:44.290 <v Speaker1>Matthias Buhlmann is one of Germany's leading voices in safe psychology, 00:00:44.930 --> 00:00:49.530 <v Speaker1>crisis negotiations and strategic communications for founders and executives. 00:00:49.530 --> 00:00:54.790 <v Speaker1>He has been trained by the former head of FBI hostage negotiation unit, 00:00:55.170 --> 00:00:58.730 <v Speaker1>holds a TÜV certification in Verkaufspsychologie, 00:00:59.190 --> 00:01:04.010 <v Speaker1>meaning sales psychology, and is a certified storytelling coach whose methods 00:01:04.010 --> 00:01:10.250 <v Speaker1>have helped startups, corporates, and solopreneurs alike turn cold leads into 00:01:10.250 --> 00:01:13.530 <v Speaker1>powerful connections without manipulation, hopefully. 00:01:14.110 --> 00:01:18.350 <v Speaker1>He's the creator of the podcast Psychologie, die verkauft und Skagel, 00:01:18.530 --> 00:01:22.530 <v Speaker1>so meaning psychology that sells. And what is Skagel? 00:01:22.830 --> 00:01:28.150 <v Speaker0>Skagel is about scaling agile. So also I'm an interim manager and support large 00:01:28.150 --> 00:01:31.410 <v Speaker0>companies with agile digital transformation. 00:01:31.590 --> 00:01:36.350 <v Speaker0>And I was funding an own department within Accenture where I worked seven years, 00:01:36.570 --> 00:01:41.070 <v Speaker0>which combines large SAP programs and scaling agile. 00:01:41.630 --> 00:01:46.010 <v Speaker1>Great. And in this podcast, you break down the science of influence and sales, 00:01:46.530 --> 00:01:52.730 <v Speaker1>leadership and large scale agile transformation, whether you're advising executive 00:01:52.730 --> 00:01:58.550 <v Speaker1>teams, preparing founders for high stakes investor talks or teaching emotional 00:01:58.550 --> 00:02:01.370 <v Speaker1>triggered strategies for Gen Z buyers. 00:02:01.830 --> 00:02:06.390 <v Speaker1>Matisse always leads with clarity, authenticity and results. 00:02:06.390 --> 00:02:12.470 <v Speaker1>Today, we'll uncover how founders can negotiate like pros, how messaging psychology 00:02:12.470 --> 00:02:17.310 <v Speaker1>can drive real growth, and what startups can learn from FBI playbooks, 00:02:17.870 --> 00:02:23.490 <v Speaker1>motivational hormone models, and Netflix-worthy storytelling frameworks. 00:02:24.030 --> 00:02:27.650 <v Speaker1>Matthias, welcome to the show and a real pleasure to have you here with us. 00:02:28.110 --> 00:02:33.010 <v Speaker0>Jörn, thank you very much for inviting me. I'm really happy to be here and I can add one thing. 00:02:33.010 --> 00:02:40.030 <v Speaker0>I was also trained before three weeks by the ex-director of Crisis and Hostess 00:02:40.030 --> 00:02:43.910 <v Speaker0>Negotiation from Scotland Yard, from Nicky Perfect also. 00:02:44.350 --> 00:02:47.570 <v Speaker1>That is a great name for a trainer, Nicky Perfect. 00:02:48.050 --> 00:02:49.750 <v Speaker0>Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. 00:02:50.190 --> 00:02:53.910 <v Speaker1>Amazing. I was wondering, let's open with a bold prediction. 00:02:54.770 --> 00:02:58.710 <v Speaker1>What bold prediction do you have for the future of communication, 00:02:58.990 --> 00:03:03.050 <v Speaker1>negotiation or sales psychology for 2030? you 00:03:04.360 --> 00:03:08.560 <v Speaker0>It's the same like in the last 10, 15 years, 1 million years, 00:03:09.060 --> 00:03:10.760 <v Speaker0>people buying from people. 00:03:11.440 --> 00:03:15.240 <v Speaker0>And for sure, we can use K-I-A-I and so on. 00:03:15.400 --> 00:03:20.100 <v Speaker0>But at the end of the day, on the bottom line, it's about emotions. 00:03:21.040 --> 00:03:27.380 <v Speaker0>And it's about my own emotions to get them under control and also to trigger 00:03:27.380 --> 00:03:31.280 <v Speaker0>the positive emotions from the opposite at the end of the day. 00:03:32.380 --> 00:03:37.840 <v Speaker1>I see. But I get the feeling you cannot sell necessarily with AI, 00:03:38.100 --> 00:03:43.720 <v Speaker1>but you can really work on the funnel that brings a potential lead to you. 00:03:44.580 --> 00:03:52.080 <v Speaker0>Absolutely. You see that LinkedIn currently, a lot of KI stuff is out there, also commands from KI. 00:03:52.300 --> 00:03:55.160 <v Speaker0>And I see it that's a little bit heartless. 00:03:55.840 --> 00:04:00.780 <v Speaker0>And this is what I really see and feel then. and this person doesn't have so 00:04:00.780 --> 00:04:07.300 <v Speaker0>much success. For sure, I work also in the preparation and for my funnels also with KI. 00:04:07.980 --> 00:04:14.960 <v Speaker0>But at the end of the day, I look over it and I really do copywriting by myself 00:04:14.960 --> 00:04:16.240 <v Speaker0>at the end of the day also. 00:04:16.660 --> 00:04:22.060 <v Speaker0>Ideas I get from the KI sometimes because brain is empty. I'm a knowledge worker, you know. 00:04:22.820 --> 00:04:28.840 <v Speaker0>But at the end of the day, I have a hands-on mentality And at the end of the 00:04:28.840 --> 00:04:31.140 <v Speaker0>day, I will do things by my own. 00:04:32.780 --> 00:04:38.020 <v Speaker1>Let's start at the beginning. What was the aha moment that led you to study 00:04:38.020 --> 00:04:43.100 <v Speaker1>FBI style negotiation and psychology for business? 00:04:44.546 --> 00:04:50.026 <v Speaker0>My aha moment and greetings going out to my ex-boss Malte at Accenture. 00:04:50.306 --> 00:04:56.046 <v Speaker0>He told me, Matthias, what you do is good, but you can do it better because 00:04:56.046 --> 00:04:59.586 <v Speaker0>you are not trained in negotiation. 00:04:59.586 --> 00:05:06.986 <v Speaker0>It was in 2020, two, three months before we had the first lockdown in Germany with Corona. 00:05:08.106 --> 00:05:13.546 <v Speaker0>And I had a really good training, the first time that I had a negotiation training. 00:05:13.546 --> 00:05:18.846 <v Speaker0>And the outcome was, Matthias, you're one of the best guys we ever trained, 00:05:18.866 --> 00:05:24.346 <v Speaker0>but now you're much more better than before because you got a lot of practices 00:05:24.346 --> 00:05:27.766 <v Speaker0>and knowledge from experienced trainers. 00:05:28.506 --> 00:05:36.726 <v Speaker0>And after two years, I asked myself, okay, is this all with negotiation or can I do something else? 00:05:37.006 --> 00:05:41.486 <v Speaker0>And then I was informed myself about negotiation trainings. There's a lot of 00:05:41.486 --> 00:05:44.886 <v Speaker0>negotiations, negotiation trainings out there. 00:05:45.046 --> 00:05:48.366 <v Speaker0>And I found a really, really good trainer. 00:05:49.406 --> 00:05:52.366 <v Speaker0>And I had five or six classes with him. 00:05:52.506 --> 00:05:59.906 <v Speaker0>He's since 25 years with the Harvard professors and do a lot of scientific things, 00:06:00.206 --> 00:06:02.726 <v Speaker0>which his training is based on. 00:06:03.406 --> 00:06:09.226 <v Speaker0>And on one day he said, Matthias, I have an offer for you. I get the ex-FBI 00:06:09.226 --> 00:06:13.126 <v Speaker0>chef boss from the negotiation unit, Gary Nusner. 00:06:13.386 --> 00:06:16.986 <v Speaker0>Are you willing to have a training with him? I directly say yes. 00:06:17.886 --> 00:06:25.986 <v Speaker0>And this was my way to the crazy thing that I had a training with the ex-FBI 00:06:25.986 --> 00:06:29.666 <v Speaker0>crisis negotiation unit boss, Gary Nusner. 00:06:29.666 --> 00:06:34.766 <v Speaker0>My aha moment was at Accenture, where I was doing a lot of sales, 00:06:35.106 --> 00:06:41.726 <v Speaker0>recruiting, and my boss see that there's much more in me, but I need to uncover 00:06:41.726 --> 00:06:43.566 <v Speaker0>it with the professional training. 00:06:46.918 --> 00:06:54.498 <v Speaker1>Many people still associate selling with manipulation how do you define ethical 00:06:54.498 --> 00:06:59.818 <v Speaker1>sales psychology and why the founders need it more than ever 00:06:59.818 --> 00:07:05.938 <v Speaker0>We see other people two times in our life so i was an ex-sales professional 00:07:05.938 --> 00:07:13.858 <v Speaker0>before 15 and 20 years before i study after my my apprenticeship in the early 2000s. 00:07:14.218 --> 00:07:20.138 <v Speaker0>And from the beginning, I saw a lot of salespeople who sell more than they can. 00:07:20.278 --> 00:07:24.718 <v Speaker0>At the end of the day, and I was in the software divisions selling software, 00:07:25.018 --> 00:07:31.238 <v Speaker0>I saw that a lot of IT technicans and developers need to do something what they 00:07:31.238 --> 00:07:36.838 <v Speaker0>cannot do because salespeople promised, declined, they can do it. 00:07:36.838 --> 00:07:44.898 <v Speaker0>And for me from the first day it was really clear i don't sell things which i cannot deliver, 00:07:45.978 --> 00:07:52.718 <v Speaker0>full stop and for sure i didn't do i didn't make all the deals what i can in 00:07:52.718 --> 00:07:56.618 <v Speaker0>the past but at the end of the day when i see the persons a second time. 00:07:57.818 --> 00:08:04.358 <v Speaker0>I can i can go out and get a drink with them so they are not angry to me and 00:08:04.358 --> 00:08:05.798 <v Speaker0>i had it one time in my life, 00:08:06.438 --> 00:08:11.558 <v Speaker0>Joe, because I was a professional chief entertainer. 00:08:11.858 --> 00:08:15.738 <v Speaker0>And in this time at Fuerteventura, I met an old client for me. 00:08:15.838 --> 00:08:21.078 <v Speaker0>And he said, Matthias, it was the best sales that I ever had because you only 00:08:21.078 --> 00:08:22.878 <v Speaker0>promised what you can deliver. 00:08:23.178 --> 00:08:29.438 <v Speaker0>The people after you from your company promised me more but didn't deliver or 00:08:29.438 --> 00:08:32.258 <v Speaker0>are really late. And this is what I really appreciate. 00:08:33.658 --> 00:08:38.198 <v Speaker0>And at the end of the day, when I'm a founder, and I have a lot of contacts 00:08:38.198 --> 00:08:42.578 <v Speaker0>to founders in Zoling and also in Düsseldorf, where I support, 00:08:43.278 --> 00:08:47.318 <v Speaker0>and they're really loving their solutions. 00:08:48.778 --> 00:08:53.118 <v Speaker0>And they need to make more clear what the boundaries are. 00:08:53.898 --> 00:08:57.538 <v Speaker0>Don't promise what you can't deliver. At the end of the day, 00:08:57.638 --> 00:08:59.718 <v Speaker0>a lot of startups failed, and it's totally okay. 00:09:00.238 --> 00:09:06.378 <v Speaker0>A girlfriend of mine said, I found it 12 times. 11 times doesn't work. 00:09:06.638 --> 00:09:09.898 <v Speaker0>And this is in Germany, we know, Almonds, it's not okay. 00:09:10.058 --> 00:09:14.338 <v Speaker0>But in the other world, it's okay if you fail and if you learn out of it. 00:09:14.478 --> 00:09:18.638 <v Speaker0>But don't promise what you can't deliver. 00:09:18.778 --> 00:09:24.138 <v Speaker0>Because at the end of the day, if you then be a new founder for another product 00:09:24.138 --> 00:09:26.638 <v Speaker0>and it's the same target group, 00:09:26.918 --> 00:09:36.938 <v Speaker0>maybe you come back to the old client and there doesn't will be a new client. So don't promise. 00:09:37.698 --> 00:09:43.998 <v Speaker0>And the ethical thing is a really big thing in the negotiation also. 00:09:44.138 --> 00:09:45.638 <v Speaker0>There are a lot of studies out of it. 00:09:46.318 --> 00:09:50.298 <v Speaker0>But at the end of the day, if you're a friendly person in sales or negotiation, 00:09:50.698 --> 00:09:54.958 <v Speaker0>be sure at the end of the day, the other person will be friendly also. 00:09:55.218 --> 00:10:03.078 <v Speaker0>Or if not, then the other person maybe is not the right target person for a 00:10:03.078 --> 00:10:04.278 <v Speaker0>product or for a company. 00:10:04.698 --> 00:10:09.238 <v Speaker1>We're getting straight into the next question. By the way, most people won't 00:10:09.238 --> 00:10:12.238 <v Speaker1>see it, but I have seen that you have a cat in the background. 00:10:12.238 --> 00:10:14.258 <v Speaker1>What's the name of the anonymous guest? 00:10:14.878 --> 00:10:19.378 <v Speaker0>This is Tia. She's now laying here. And the other one is easy. 00:10:19.658 --> 00:10:25.938 <v Speaker0>They're both British shorthairs. And the other one is a real big British shorthair 00:10:25.938 --> 00:10:27.718 <v Speaker0>cat. They're my ladies here. 00:10:27.898 --> 00:10:31.618 <v Speaker0>They're the most agile and most trade negotiation cats in the world. 00:10:31.618 --> 00:10:36.258 <v Speaker0>They don't want to do my job so that I can lay on a beach. 00:10:36.898 --> 00:10:43.378 <v Speaker1>I see. We are already getting a little bit into the tactical deep dive frameworks and tools. 00:10:43.378 --> 00:10:47.838 <v Speaker1>And I was wondering, what do you think is the biggest misconception startup 00:10:47.838 --> 00:10:54.878 <v Speaker1>leaders have about negotiating, especially under pressure, like the BATNA framework for founders? 00:10:55.678 --> 00:11:00.638 <v Speaker0>They often have no BATNA. So for the people outside, what is a BATNA? 00:11:00.758 --> 00:11:04.098 <v Speaker0>It's the best alternative to negotiated agreement. 00:11:04.918 --> 00:11:10.358 <v Speaker0>It's our best plan B. So for sure, we work here with a plan B. 00:11:11.138 --> 00:11:16.638 <v Speaker0>And if you don't have a plan B, so if you don't can make it in another way, 00:11:17.538 --> 00:11:22.538 <v Speaker0>then the only way to make sales, to make a deal, is now on this table. 00:11:23.018 --> 00:11:28.838 <v Speaker0>And this brings you sometimes not in the best situation. So you give up earlier, 00:11:29.258 --> 00:11:30.938 <v Speaker0>you give a lot of rebates, etc. 00:11:31.378 --> 00:11:36.498 <v Speaker0>So be sure that you have a best alternative to a negotiated agreement. 00:11:36.678 --> 00:11:42.098 <v Speaker0>So the question is, what can I do? when I go out of the table and have no result here. 00:11:43.539 --> 00:11:49.239 <v Speaker0>That's a question. And often enough, people think for sure we can negotiate. 00:11:49.519 --> 00:11:56.439 <v Speaker0>I was a negotiator in the school. I was doing the Abibal or some other things 00:11:56.439 --> 00:12:00.039 <v Speaker0>that are organized for other pupils in my school. 00:12:00.879 --> 00:12:08.259 <v Speaker0>You call it negotiation. And I was five and a half years in a child and youth 00:12:08.259 --> 00:12:14.999 <v Speaker0>psychiatry as I was 11 until 16 years. and I was negotiating for my life a lot. 00:12:15.219 --> 00:12:22.519 <v Speaker0>But this has nothing to do with the same things what I did after a professional training. 00:12:22.739 --> 00:12:27.699 <v Speaker0>And this doesn't mean that you need to do six, seven trainings like me and FBI 00:12:27.699 --> 00:12:28.939 <v Speaker0>and Scotland Yard trainings. 00:12:29.659 --> 00:12:34.899 <v Speaker0>It's absolutely enough when you do two days of professional training, 00:12:35.099 --> 00:12:40.079 <v Speaker0>for example, Harvard Concept or with trainers who are really experienced and 00:12:40.079 --> 00:12:43.079 <v Speaker0>also have professional trainings, etc. 00:12:43.819 --> 00:12:48.739 <v Speaker0>Two days are enough. And there are two studies out there from 2010, 00:12:48.739 --> 00:12:53.639 <v Speaker0>which prove this also, that people who are trained two days with the Harvard 00:12:53.639 --> 00:12:57.219 <v Speaker0>negotiation concept, basic training, nothing special, 00:12:58.799 --> 00:13:03.639 <v Speaker0>that they are much more effective than people who are not trained. 00:13:05.747 --> 00:13:13.687 <v Speaker0>It's really easy. It's not that difficult, to be honest. And it doesn't need to cost 10,000 euros. 00:13:13.987 --> 00:13:18.487 <v Speaker0>If you have a good trainer, you can make it with a group, two days, 00:13:18.727 --> 00:13:23.527 <v Speaker0>5,000 to 10,000 people. If you have a big group of 10,000, 12 people, 00:13:23.827 --> 00:13:28.087 <v Speaker0>so per person around 1,000, 2,000 euros maximum. 00:13:30.567 --> 00:13:38.947 <v Speaker1>And how can startup founders use the either VATNA or SOPA framework to improve 00:13:38.947 --> 00:13:42.607 <v Speaker1>their investor negotiations or enterprise deals? 00:13:43.267 --> 00:13:49.587 <v Speaker0>So first of all, you need to zoom out and don't be emotional because it's your 00:13:49.587 --> 00:13:50.727 <v Speaker0>child at the end of the day. 00:13:50.847 --> 00:13:53.127 <v Speaker0>If you are a founder, then it's your child. 00:13:53.307 --> 00:13:58.967 <v Speaker0>And some people say, yeah, the first thing what I killed is my child, but not my human child. 00:13:59.147 --> 00:14:02.747 <v Speaker0>So my professional business child. 00:14:03.067 --> 00:14:11.487 <v Speaker0>And think about if it's the only way to make a deal here. Is this the only way 00:14:11.487 --> 00:14:16.687 <v Speaker0>to go on or do I have another option? 00:14:17.467 --> 00:14:22.647 <v Speaker0>And the first thing what you really need to do is zoom out and be not emotional. 00:14:22.647 --> 00:14:25.307 <v Speaker0>And this is the most critical thing. 00:14:25.407 --> 00:14:29.907 <v Speaker0>And I'm a really emotional guy to do it by myself. 00:14:30.167 --> 00:14:35.527 <v Speaker0>And now what I say, Jörn, it's really, really, really difficult. 00:14:35.527 --> 00:14:39.407 <v Speaker0>And in this situation, it can help to have one, 00:14:39.687 --> 00:14:44.887 <v Speaker0>two, three hours of a professional coach, trainer, consultant in the negotiation 00:14:44.887 --> 00:14:51.967 <v Speaker0>area to ask him or her to help you to zoom out and don't be emotional. 00:14:52.387 --> 00:14:59.787 <v Speaker0>Ask the right questions. Because the answer, I swear you, it's inside the mouth of the founders. 00:14:59.787 --> 00:15:08.587 <v Speaker0>But they need a sparrings partner who helps them to zoom out and go out of the emotional area. 00:15:10.555 --> 00:15:19.415 <v Speaker0>And to be honest, emotions are 99% of the reasons why people take hostages. 00:15:20.255 --> 00:15:27.655 <v Speaker0>Almost men's and almost because of emotional situations, they are not planned. 00:15:30.535 --> 00:15:37.595 <v Speaker0>So emotions is a basic for everyone to learn about your triggers, your emotions. 00:15:38.335 --> 00:15:42.675 <v Speaker0>And this is more than 50% of the negotiation process. 00:15:43.915 --> 00:15:48.555 <v Speaker0>And then we take care of the other side, of the triggers, emotionals, 00:15:48.555 --> 00:15:54.755 <v Speaker0>and how we can help them to say yes. And you ask questions about ethics. 00:15:55.015 --> 00:16:02.855 <v Speaker0>And I call it white and dark sales psychology. or what I teach the people, 00:16:03.035 --> 00:16:08.615 <v Speaker0>I show them, you can use in the good world and in the bad world. 00:16:08.955 --> 00:16:14.655 <v Speaker0>It's like a knife. And with a knife, you can slice some apples or you can kill people. 00:16:15.235 --> 00:16:22.975 <v Speaker0>It's really simple. It's a knife. And negotiation and psychology skills are a really sharp knife. 00:16:24.175 --> 00:16:30.415 <v Speaker0>And I make clear to my clients that I'm not going into negotiation or don't 00:16:30.415 --> 00:16:34.435 <v Speaker0>will support them as if they do bad things. Really simple. 00:16:36.215 --> 00:16:43.315 <v Speaker1>That actually does make sense. Tell us about, we're talking about MotivCompass, 00:16:43.455 --> 00:16:45.555 <v Speaker1>something like the motivational compass. 00:16:45.915 --> 00:16:51.995 <v Speaker1>How can founders or marketers use it to sell effectively without selling out? 00:16:52.835 --> 00:17:00.535 <v Speaker0>Yeah, thank you very much. Really simple. This is a neuroscience model from Dirk Eilert. 00:17:00.695 --> 00:17:03.155 <v Speaker0>I don't know if you ever heard the name. 00:17:03.315 --> 00:17:09.195 <v Speaker0>It's one of the leading micro-expressions experts in Germany or in the DACH 00:17:09.195 --> 00:17:12.595 <v Speaker0>region and the German-speaking region in Europe. 00:17:13.075 --> 00:17:20.695 <v Speaker0>And he and a professor, doctor, were founding this MotivCompass for another thing. 00:17:20.695 --> 00:17:28.755 <v Speaker0>So they ask themselves, okay, if people we coached and they have traumatized, 00:17:28.835 --> 00:17:31.875 <v Speaker0>they have blockers, how can we help them more effectively? 00:17:32.135 --> 00:17:35.455 <v Speaker0>And then they build up this motif compass. So it's like a disc. 00:17:35.895 --> 00:17:40.315 <v Speaker0>It's extended disc model, like red, blue, green, and yellow, 00:17:40.455 --> 00:17:45.175 <v Speaker0>where we say, okay, red is like people like Trump. What's in for me? 00:17:45.515 --> 00:17:50.975 <v Speaker0>I need power. I need fast cars. I need status, etc. 00:17:51.375 --> 00:17:58.795 <v Speaker0>Blue is like financial offices, people, data and facts. 00:17:59.195 --> 00:18:07.815 <v Speaker0>Green people are like kindergartner, like people who are working in the social jobs and the yellow one. 00:18:08.872 --> 00:18:12.732 <v Speaker0>It's like chief entertainers. It's really simple what I say now, 00:18:12.852 --> 00:18:14.532 <v Speaker0>but at the end of the day, it's like this. 00:18:14.712 --> 00:18:19.432 <v Speaker0>And all these people need other pictures, other words. 00:18:19.652 --> 00:18:24.672 <v Speaker0>If I would like to sell something to Mr. Trump, I would only have him in my 00:18:24.672 --> 00:18:26.592 <v Speaker0>picture and say, you will be the number one. 00:18:26.732 --> 00:18:30.532 <v Speaker0>This product will help you to be the number one of the number one. 00:18:30.932 --> 00:18:35.732 <v Speaker0>No one will come after you. If I go with the blue one, I say, 00:18:36.052 --> 00:18:41.872 <v Speaker0>or the green one, I will say, okay, I will save you to have issues in the future 00:18:41.872 --> 00:18:47.572 <v Speaker0>and the community will support you also with questions. 00:18:48.272 --> 00:18:56.192 <v Speaker0>So it's really another thing how I tell the people about my product or in the negotiations. 00:18:56.192 --> 00:18:59.392 <v Speaker0>Yeah so red and 00:18:59.392 --> 00:19:02.092 <v Speaker0>yellow is like i would like 00:19:02.092 --> 00:19:05.852 <v Speaker0>to reach something at the target and green and 00:19:05.852 --> 00:19:11.092 <v Speaker0>blue for example they would like to saved yeah they are not really happy when 00:19:11.092 --> 00:19:15.672 <v Speaker0>i say hey with this product you can do more more more they say okay i'm not 00:19:15.672 --> 00:19:21.652 <v Speaker0>really sure but when i tell them hey with this product i can help you that you 00:19:21.652 --> 00:19:25.512 <v Speaker0>are doesn't got bankrupt that you don't lose your. 00:19:26.712 --> 00:19:30.932 <v Speaker0>Friends, lose your clients, whatever. They would like to be protected. 00:19:31.632 --> 00:19:35.912 <v Speaker0>And red and blue, for example, they are target orientated. 00:19:36.172 --> 00:19:42.392 <v Speaker0>So they are not, I don't want to say they are not taking care about humans, but less humans, 00:19:43.092 --> 00:19:51.432 <v Speaker0>more objects and yellow and green are more influenced by humans, not by objects. 00:19:51.692 --> 00:19:54.152 <v Speaker0>So the human is in the middle point. Yeah. 00:19:55.180 --> 00:20:04.780 <v Speaker0>And this is what I tell them really quickly. And we can sharpen our messages with a Motive Compass. 00:20:05.940 --> 00:20:09.420 <v Speaker0>And it's not really, really, really difficult. 00:20:09.480 --> 00:20:16.100 <v Speaker0>I had a client, a C-suite, and she told me, Matthias, I have a blue and a yellow one in the meeting. 00:20:16.300 --> 00:20:21.420 <v Speaker0>I said, yeah, then we will do sentences where we combine this both. 00:20:22.300 --> 00:20:25.180 <v Speaker0>And we tried it and she said yeah 00:20:25.180 --> 00:20:28.100 <v Speaker0>it works yeah and this was really nice to 00:20:28.100 --> 00:20:30.980 <v Speaker0>hear because it was for me also the first time 00:20:30.980 --> 00:20:37.260 <v Speaker0>that i do it for a client and i was sweating a little bit uh during the day 00:20:37.260 --> 00:20:41.560 <v Speaker0>and at the evening she called me told me i got more money and all the things 00:20:41.560 --> 00:20:49.420 <v Speaker0>what i want and a little bit more um all the conditions are accepted and it worked and. 00:20:49.420 --> 00:20:54.820 <v Speaker1>Before we go into a short head break, what are the three killer words that read 00:20:54.820 --> 00:20:58.720 <v Speaker1>most pitches, LinkedIn posts, or sales messages? 00:21:01.740 --> 00:21:04.400 <v Speaker0>Learn, work, and, 00:21:06.740 --> 00:21:13.380 <v Speaker0>I forgot the third one. I spoke about it today. Learn, work, and, 00:21:15.820 --> 00:21:17.460 <v Speaker0>I forgot the third one. 00:21:18.320 --> 00:21:23.300 <v Speaker1>I make a suggestion we'll be on a short ad break and when we come back you'll remember okay 00:21:30.667 --> 00:21:35.287 <v Speaker1>Hey, guys, thanks for sticking around. I'm talking with Matthias Buhlmann about 00:21:35.287 --> 00:21:40.207 <v Speaker1>high stakes negotiation, how you can get the best out of it and some frameworks. 00:21:40.527 --> 00:21:45.607 <v Speaker1>And we were just talking about three killer words that were in most pitches. 00:21:45.607 --> 00:21:47.027 <v Speaker1>What was the last one you forgot? 00:21:47.227 --> 00:21:49.447 <v Speaker1>And please tell them all, all three. 00:21:49.747 --> 00:21:54.967 <v Speaker0>I forgot the word which I every time tell to my clients. 00:21:55.147 --> 00:22:01.767 <v Speaker0>Don't use it. The rest is maybe a little bit not good, but this is a killer word, is helping. 00:22:03.067 --> 00:22:06.827 <v Speaker0>Helping, learning, and working. Because at the end of the day, 00:22:06.907 --> 00:22:11.867 <v Speaker0>helping, I was doing a civil job with 80-year-old people, for sure. 00:22:12.047 --> 00:22:19.227 <v Speaker0>They need help. But a C-suite, a founder, he or she doesn't need help. He or she needs support. 00:22:20.027 --> 00:22:26.087 <v Speaker0>Find other words. Learn. We are back in the school. Did you like the school, 00:22:26.247 --> 00:22:28.287 <v Speaker0>to be honest, Jörn, at all? 00:22:30.127 --> 00:22:37.727 <v Speaker0>Sometimes yes, sometimes no. I was not really happy in my school time, and the rest is work. 00:22:37.987 --> 00:22:42.187 <v Speaker0>At the end of the day, we think hard work, and we don't want to have hard work. 00:22:42.267 --> 00:22:44.827 <v Speaker0>We would like to have it easy and quickly. 00:22:45.367 --> 00:22:49.927 <v Speaker0>So there are our base needings also in sales psychology. What's in for me? 00:22:50.387 --> 00:22:55.087 <v Speaker0>Fast and easy solutions we would like to have. 00:22:55.507 --> 00:23:02.047 <v Speaker0>But today, to be honest, I had a discussion with one guy and he said, Matthias, I'm with you. 00:23:02.267 --> 00:23:09.247 <v Speaker0>But when I heard learn, then I'm more happy to buy because when I buy, 00:23:09.347 --> 00:23:11.727 <v Speaker0>I buy really complex systems. 00:23:11.727 --> 00:23:16.547 <v Speaker0>And I'm really happy when they tell me you have to learn it before you can use 00:23:16.547 --> 00:23:22.287 <v Speaker0>it. So there is someone out there, maybe, who likes the word learn. 00:23:23.027 --> 00:23:27.567 <v Speaker0>And this is really important that you know anything and everything about your customer. 00:23:28.447 --> 00:23:32.067 <v Speaker0>Because in general, it's correct, but sometimes... 00:23:34.466 --> 00:23:38.226 <v Speaker0>Maybe it's the right word for your target group. 00:23:39.426 --> 00:23:43.586 <v Speaker1>I was wondering, I was talking to a lot of people in the past. 00:23:43.786 --> 00:23:46.986 <v Speaker1>This is almost my 700th interview in English. 00:23:47.206 --> 00:23:51.686 <v Speaker1>So I was wondering, before we get into real-world applications, 00:23:51.926 --> 00:23:58.086 <v Speaker1>I heard from a lot of people, sales work when you listen, when you're not aggressive, 00:23:58.086 --> 00:24:01.766 <v Speaker1>and when you build trust. Would you agree to these three pieces? 00:24:02.426 --> 00:24:07.186 <v Speaker0>Absolutely, fully. Absolutely. It's a first step from the FBI negotiation concept also. 00:24:08.006 --> 00:24:12.626 <v Speaker0>Active listening for the Germans, hinhören, not zuhören. 00:24:13.586 --> 00:24:17.566 <v Speaker0>So active listening, 80% is listening. 00:24:18.106 --> 00:24:25.286 <v Speaker1>Okay. Some real-world applications where you can learn a little bit from stories from the startup lens. 00:24:25.286 --> 00:24:31.006 <v Speaker1>Can you share a moment where your psychological approach helped close a tough 00:24:31.006 --> 00:24:33.446 <v Speaker1>deal or win over a difficult client? 00:24:35.066 --> 00:24:40.526 <v Speaker0>Absolutely. I had a client. It was two years before, one and a half years before, 00:24:40.786 --> 00:24:43.366 <v Speaker0>something like this. I met him three weeks before. 00:24:44.246 --> 00:24:52.146 <v Speaker0>And he does something in the ecological area with the black fly for feeding cows, etc. 00:24:52.886 --> 00:24:59.066 <v Speaker0>And he wasn't produced his first batch, but he was going to a large investor 00:24:59.066 --> 00:25:03.026 <v Speaker0>to Gelsenkirchen, Western Germany, Ruhrpott, Ruhrgebiet. 00:25:03.126 --> 00:25:11.046 <v Speaker0>And he said, Matthias, can we have quick counseling about this meeting? I said, yes, no worries. 00:25:11.506 --> 00:25:16.986 <v Speaker0>And then I was preparing myself because I found a lot of things in the Internet. 00:25:17.426 --> 00:25:21.826 <v Speaker0>And this guy was more red, orange guy. 00:25:22.146 --> 00:25:27.846 <v Speaker0>And I helped him, supported him with some sentences. We tested it. 00:25:27.906 --> 00:25:35.626 <v Speaker0>So I was the upcoming investor playing a quick role play. 00:25:35.826 --> 00:25:41.826 <v Speaker0>And he called me back three hours later and said, Matthias, he now said I didn't 00:25:41.826 --> 00:25:47.926 <v Speaker0>produce the first batch, but he bought the first batch at all without seeing anything. 00:25:49.686 --> 00:25:54.486 <v Speaker0>And this makes me really proud yeah. 00:25:57.066 --> 00:26:01.986 <v Speaker1>I see um when 00:26:01.986 --> 00:26:08.186 <v Speaker1>we talked about real world examples we also talk about your uh scaggle podcasts 00:26:08.186 --> 00:26:16.286 <v Speaker1>and courses we emphasize structure why is structure so essential for successful 00:26:16.286 --> 00:26:20.026 <v Speaker1>communications and scaling agile in enterprises. 00:26:22.223 --> 00:26:30.863 <v Speaker0>What I had yesterday, a similar discussion, and I told my upside person, I said, hey, 00:26:31.923 --> 00:26:37.423 <v Speaker0>to be honest, the clients out there doesn't need to have a scaling, 00:26:37.563 --> 00:26:38.563 <v Speaker0>agile training, whatever. 00:26:38.923 --> 00:26:41.143 <v Speaker0>They need all the communication training. 00:26:44.843 --> 00:26:53.503 <v Speaker0>Because it exists often enough, or in general, we have five steps of reclamation. 00:26:54.343 --> 00:27:00.043 <v Speaker0>So in level one, I didn't know anything about that I have an issue. 00:27:00.303 --> 00:27:03.323 <v Speaker0>In five, I only need a trigger to buy now. 00:27:03.323 --> 00:27:11.023 <v Speaker0>And when I see this, also with C-Suites and big automotive companies, 00:27:11.223 --> 00:27:20.003 <v Speaker0>also where I was supporting C-Suite and also the level below the C-Suite, 00:27:20.223 --> 00:27:30.083 <v Speaker0>I saw that there was three, five, six steps in front of information and they communicated. 00:27:30.083 --> 00:27:35.263 <v Speaker0>But they didn't take the people with them and they didn't, they was confused, 00:27:35.543 --> 00:27:38.903 <v Speaker0>they had no change management and said, hey, you need to start with zero. 00:27:39.283 --> 00:27:46.683 <v Speaker0>It's like you have small babies and they didn't know that they can run alone. 00:27:47.003 --> 00:27:48.903 <v Speaker0>So they're things, they need your hand. 00:27:49.263 --> 00:27:53.043 <v Speaker0>But you need to start much more before with the communication. 00:27:53.463 --> 00:27:59.283 <v Speaker0>So first of all, please check in which status of this five. 00:28:01.003 --> 00:28:04.963 <v Speaker0>Your client or your opposite side person is where you would like to talk to, 00:28:05.823 --> 00:28:12.523 <v Speaker0>because at the end of the day if you talk Chinese but there are Italians everyone 00:28:12.523 --> 00:28:15.903 <v Speaker0>would say yeah for some materials it's really clear but this is what, 00:28:16.523 --> 00:28:23.103 <v Speaker0>happens every day also in the transformation business on C-suite level on apprenticeship, 00:28:24.483 --> 00:28:32.623 <v Speaker0>level on all levels please take care of the status of the opposite person because 00:28:32.623 --> 00:28:35.163 <v Speaker0>it doesn't value the other person. 00:28:35.403 --> 00:28:42.103 <v Speaker0>And if the other person doesn't feel valued, you have a negotiation issue also. 00:28:42.363 --> 00:28:52.183 <v Speaker0>And we all negotiate every day. There are statistics out there from another negotiation expert. 00:28:52.443 --> 00:28:58.143 <v Speaker0>He said, statistics say that we negotiate every week 40 hours. 00:28:59.403 --> 00:29:06.403 <v Speaker0>So maybe it makes sense, Jörn, to have a communication slash negotiation training. 00:29:06.543 --> 00:29:12.043 <v Speaker0>And my negotiation trainings are often enough communication trainings also. 00:29:12.303 --> 00:29:19.543 <v Speaker0>And valuing the other person is a basic thing. If the other person doesn't feel valued... 00:29:21.791 --> 00:29:27.911 <v Speaker0>Then you have a big issue. It has nothing to do with being smart, 00:29:28.611 --> 00:29:32.231 <v Speaker0>knowing the product, knowing the company, knowing the system, 00:29:32.571 --> 00:29:36.071 <v Speaker0>nothing to do with this. Take care of the other person. 00:29:39.611 --> 00:29:45.711 <v Speaker1>I see because if you don't appreciate the other person, they'll never, ever buy from you. 00:29:46.931 --> 00:29:51.451 <v Speaker1>You've also worked in large-scale agile transformations. 00:29:51.791 --> 00:29:59.211 <v Speaker1>600-plus teams, 600-plus people in the team, what are the top two psychological 00:29:59.211 --> 00:30:02.671 <v Speaker1>blockers to agility that no one talks about? 00:30:05.371 --> 00:30:09.231 <v Speaker0>I had a podcast interview similar about this topic. 00:30:10.031 --> 00:30:13.231 <v Speaker0>There are three. The first of all, we are elements. We are not agile. 00:30:13.891 --> 00:30:18.211 <v Speaker0>We wait until someone will tell us what we have to do. 00:30:18.371 --> 00:30:22.371 <v Speaker0>It's a little bit of a running gag, but often enough, it is like this. 00:30:22.711 --> 00:30:28.831 <v Speaker0>But the first thing is, mostly we have no change management and the people doesn't know what happens now. 00:30:29.311 --> 00:30:35.151 <v Speaker0>So with agile transformation, we have new practices, new organizations, 00:30:35.551 --> 00:30:42.431 <v Speaker0>maybe new responsibilities and the people are not aware what happens now. 00:30:42.591 --> 00:30:47.471 <v Speaker0>They are scared of the future. It's a lot of uncertainty. 00:30:48.471 --> 00:30:54.251 <v Speaker0>So, therefore, we need to help them. Really, now we need to help them to understand 00:30:54.251 --> 00:31:01.691 <v Speaker0>why we do it, for what we do it, and how the way is until the transformation ends. 00:31:01.931 --> 00:31:07.011 <v Speaker0>Transformation is coming from status A into status B. 00:31:07.531 --> 00:31:12.911 <v Speaker0>You know it. It's really simple. It's like a system update, system upgrade. 00:31:13.351 --> 00:31:15.651 <v Speaker0>System A, upgrade, system B. 00:31:16.751 --> 00:31:20.931 <v Speaker0>It's the same like with the transformation. But now we talk about humans and 00:31:20.931 --> 00:31:23.551 <v Speaker0>we need to take them with us. 00:31:24.471 --> 00:31:31.111 <v Speaker0>That's really important. And therefore, a lot of communication runs really not well. 00:31:31.611 --> 00:31:35.291 <v Speaker0>And the people are scared. And at the end of the day, when we are scared. 00:31:36.471 --> 00:31:37.651 <v Speaker0>As humans, what are we doing? 00:31:37.911 --> 00:31:43.451 <v Speaker0>We go back into the system, into the behaviors, which we now and which we are 00:31:43.451 --> 00:31:47.331 <v Speaker0>safe in. What means no transformation at all? 00:31:48.071 --> 00:31:53.551 <v Speaker0>Because we should have new practices, new responsibilities, etc. 00:31:53.971 --> 00:31:58.991 <v Speaker0>But if I'm scared, I go back into the rooms, into the systems, 00:31:59.171 --> 00:32:02.571 <v Speaker0>into the habits, which make me safe. 00:32:03.951 --> 00:32:11.311 <v Speaker0>This is one of the most things. and he was publishing in Springer Gabler also 00:32:11.311 --> 00:32:17.571 <v Speaker0>a book about it or a chapter in a book and the second one is, 00:32:18.391 --> 00:32:20.871 <v Speaker0>mostly for what are we doing with this, 00:32:23.070 --> 00:32:31.170 <v Speaker0>Because, again, communication, the people are not aware of it for what is it good. 00:32:31.330 --> 00:32:36.630 <v Speaker0>So my last project was in the public services, and the people asked me from 00:32:36.630 --> 00:32:44.330 <v Speaker0>two teams, Matthias, we are not sure for what we are doing. It doesn't make sense for us. 00:32:44.890 --> 00:32:48.690 <v Speaker0>At the end of the day, for these both teams, they are right. 00:32:48.690 --> 00:32:57.170 <v Speaker0>But it was pressure from top and the department needs to do it etc and then they felt, 00:32:57.970 --> 00:33:04.010 <v Speaker0>that they didn't know for what they're doing so make clear for what you are doing. 00:33:06.290 --> 00:33:11.150 <v Speaker1>Exactly and when you talked about uncertainty I do believe that's one of the 00:33:11.150 --> 00:33:18.190 <v Speaker1>big differences if you look for a corporate job or if you look for an employment 00:33:18.190 --> 00:33:23.730 <v Speaker1>Because the people who are not looking for one of these careers, 00:33:24.030 --> 00:33:29.090 <v Speaker1>the ones who can embrace uncertainty, they are very likely to be freelancers or entrepreneurs. 00:33:30.250 --> 00:33:36.710 <v Speaker1>I was wondering for our audience, if they could go back in time, 00:33:36.870 --> 00:33:44.970 <v Speaker1>what was one thing you'd coach your past self before launching your first product team or podcast? 00:33:47.130 --> 00:33:49.830 <v Speaker1>I'm interested in what comments do 00:33:49.830 --> 00:33:55.290 <v Speaker1>we get um let us look a little bit into the last piece um the future lens and 00:33:55.290 --> 00:34:03.050 <v Speaker1>founder advice what role will psychology play in startup growth strategies post 00:34:03.050 --> 00:34:09.650 <v Speaker1>2025 especially in an ai saturated noisy market 00:34:11.232 --> 00:34:14.672 <v Speaker0>Which role within the founder's team? 00:34:14.952 --> 00:34:22.772 <v Speaker1>Yes, especially about sales, about negotiations, because you could basically use AI for anything. 00:34:23.352 --> 00:34:26.812 <v Speaker1>What role will psychology play? 00:34:27.332 --> 00:34:34.812 <v Speaker0>It's one of my favorite things, what I say, people, buying from people. 00:34:34.812 --> 00:34:40.272 <v Speaker0>What means at the end of the day the other person or the group of person needs 00:34:40.272 --> 00:34:42.772 <v Speaker0>to have the feeling that the word's coming from you, 00:34:43.832 --> 00:34:50.672 <v Speaker0>and for sure I need KI for my LinkedIn posts also but at the end of the day 00:34:50.672 --> 00:34:58.592 <v Speaker0>I 60% of these recommendations from KI I will write new and the people see it 00:34:58.592 --> 00:35:00.612 <v Speaker0>and now that it's the Matthias source, 00:35:01.512 --> 00:35:07.792 <v Speaker0>Andreas Wienheller one of my mentors said Matthias because I made a KI test before half a year. 00:35:08.472 --> 00:35:12.032 <v Speaker0>One month, every day, two posts only with KI. 00:35:12.332 --> 00:35:18.812 <v Speaker0>And he came back to me and said, Matthias, I know you. And the Matthias source is missing. 00:35:19.072 --> 00:35:26.632 <v Speaker0>So the other persons will know when you do only playbooks, selling books, 00:35:27.592 --> 00:35:29.132 <v Speaker0>PowerPoints, only with KI. 00:35:29.452 --> 00:35:35.632 <v Speaker0>For sure, KI can help you. I use Gamma.ai also for PowerPoints because I'm not a PowerPoint friend. 00:35:36.032 --> 00:35:39.732 <v Speaker0>And they give me a lot of good recommendations. But at the end of the day, 00:35:39.852 --> 00:35:44.232 <v Speaker0>I need to step in and do copywriting and change the picture. 00:35:44.232 --> 00:35:46.612 <v Speaker0>So what I don't want to see out there…. 00:35:47.710 --> 00:35:51.890 <v Speaker0>Maybe other people from the Generation Z are different here. 00:35:52.070 --> 00:35:54.170 <v Speaker0>I don't want to see KI pictures. 00:35:54.430 --> 00:36:01.890 <v Speaker0>I really like it when they do a lot of nice paintings and graphics of KI, 00:36:02.090 --> 00:36:06.950 <v Speaker0>but I don't use it because I don't buy when I see something like this. 00:36:08.070 --> 00:36:13.330 <v Speaker1>Oh, too bad. The cover graphic of this interview will be with the assistance of AI. 00:36:13.330 --> 00:36:18.810 <v Speaker1>But what you've been talking about, I did have something that came back to my 00:36:18.810 --> 00:36:21.690 <v Speaker1>mind because you said people buy from people. 00:36:21.690 --> 00:36:30.690 <v Speaker1>I do have an increasing, increasing amount of people out there who think they generate 00:36:32.550 --> 00:36:40.250 <v Speaker1>random people, random names, almost random URLs that have something to do with 00:36:40.250 --> 00:36:43.110 <v Speaker1>AI and then get a lot of paying clients. 00:36:43.250 --> 00:36:49.370 <v Speaker1>And you write with those AI agents to as many podcasts as possible. 00:36:49.370 --> 00:36:53.770 <v Speaker1>I even wrote an article about it because you just check the URL. 00:36:54.090 --> 00:36:57.750 <v Speaker1>There's nothing behind it. You look up the person. 00:36:57.990 --> 00:37:02.690 <v Speaker1>They're not on the net. They are nowhere to be found in the people search engines, 00:37:02.870 --> 00:37:05.110 <v Speaker1>in LinkedIn, Xing, wherever, Facebook. 00:37:05.370 --> 00:37:10.790 <v Speaker1>So you instantly realize that is not a valid approach. 00:37:11.210 --> 00:37:17.590 <v Speaker1>You cannot simply spam me. The top URL will go in my spam folder and I'll never 00:37:17.590 --> 00:37:23.550 <v Speaker1>look at it again. I get more than a hundred emails a day and a lot of them are pitches. 00:37:24.190 --> 00:37:30.590 <v Speaker1>Do you think a lot of other people who are not as exposed to AI will have the 00:37:30.590 --> 00:37:31.670 <v Speaker1>same behavior in the future? 00:37:32.955 --> 00:37:37.175 <v Speaker0>I heard a lot of this tactics with agents, etc. 00:37:37.475 --> 00:37:41.855 <v Speaker0>And I'm really curious to hear about that it works. 00:37:43.355 --> 00:37:48.255 <v Speaker0>A lot of people say, yeah, for sure it works. Buy my product for 1,000 euros. 00:37:49.555 --> 00:37:55.975 <v Speaker1>Honestly, I can tell you there are a lot of usual suspects here where it doesn't work. 00:37:56.055 --> 00:38:01.515 <v Speaker1>For example, I had once the case where they sent out emails on a Saturday, 00:38:01.535 --> 00:38:05.155 <v Speaker1>on a Sunday, And the next day I came in, the exact same email, 00:38:05.375 --> 00:38:08.755 <v Speaker1>the exact same headline of the email, 00:38:09.015 --> 00:38:11.455 <v Speaker1>two different people, one minute apart, 00:38:12.055 --> 00:38:13.675 <v Speaker1>two different names, one minute apart. 00:38:13.815 --> 00:38:16.395 <v Speaker1>And I was going, okay, we got two more candidates for spam. 00:38:16.575 --> 00:38:21.095 <v Speaker1>By now, I do have a bigger spam folder than a normal folder because there's 00:38:21.095 --> 00:38:27.475 <v Speaker1>a lot of people out there who think they can get into top 20 tech podcasts with 00:38:27.475 --> 00:38:29.695 <v Speaker1>just spamming me. That doesn't work. 00:38:30.475 --> 00:38:37.675 <v Speaker0>But it's like phishing. There are people out there because it works with some people, so they do it. 00:38:37.915 --> 00:38:46.055 <v Speaker0>If people do it, if we see it constantly, then in the world exist people who buy it. 00:38:47.355 --> 00:38:50.735 <v Speaker0>I don't know why I wouldn't buy it. 00:38:52.515 --> 00:38:59.475 <v Speaker0>One time I got an AI call from an agent, and this was a really good call. 00:38:59.475 --> 00:39:05.435 <v Speaker0>I didn't recognize it in the first three minutes that this was an AI agent from 00:39:05.435 --> 00:39:12.755 <v Speaker0>the voice, from how quick she was answering my questions and was reacting. 00:39:13.755 --> 00:39:21.815 <v Speaker0>And then there were some things where I felt, okay, I think this is a KI agent. 00:39:21.835 --> 00:39:26.515 <v Speaker0>It was really funny to see, and I know a lot of people who say we have since 00:39:26.515 --> 00:39:28.635 <v Speaker0>a couple of years AI agents and it works. 00:39:29.475 --> 00:39:30.835 <v Speaker0>I doesn't see the numbers. 00:39:32.829 --> 00:39:40.309 <v Speaker0>But I think support with KI, AI in the future will be more. 00:39:41.089 --> 00:39:47.109 <v Speaker0>And for sure with KI. And I did my apprenticeship at Dativ in 1997. 00:39:47.869 --> 00:39:51.569 <v Speaker0>So there was a beginning of the public internet, let's say, like this. 00:39:51.849 --> 00:39:55.169 <v Speaker0>And this is what KI is currently. It's like 1997. 00:39:55.889 --> 00:40:00.769 <v Speaker0>And I'm really sure that we see in the next year a lot of things coming up. 00:40:00.769 --> 00:40:04.549 <v Speaker0>I'm really, really curious about, but at the end of the day, 00:40:04.689 --> 00:40:10.569 <v Speaker0>you need to know your target group and people buying from people. 00:40:10.829 --> 00:40:18.869 <v Speaker0>So what they do is I have a lot of impressions from my Impresso because people 00:40:18.869 --> 00:40:22.729 <v Speaker0>would like to see if I'm a real person. 00:40:22.729 --> 00:40:29.309 <v Speaker0>And for sure, I used KI agents in the past for Instagram, for finding new people 00:40:29.309 --> 00:40:33.009 <v Speaker0>and sending them automated mails like Kaltakwiese. 00:40:33.169 --> 00:40:36.089 <v Speaker0>I know it's forbidden in Germany, but I tested it also. 00:40:37.009 --> 00:40:43.709 <v Speaker0>It wasn't successful. And I used a lot of templates for myself, 00:40:43.709 --> 00:40:49.849 <v Speaker0>which worked when I do it, when I really look for the presence itself. 00:40:49.849 --> 00:40:53.109 <v Speaker0>And then I send the contact invitation. 00:40:53.469 --> 00:40:56.489 <v Speaker0>This works much more better than the automated thing. 00:40:56.649 --> 00:41:04.429 <v Speaker0>But I have people who brought me to this agent who said, I made 30K per month only with this agent. 00:41:06.579 --> 00:41:15.059 <v Speaker0>I cannot prove it, but I'm really sure that we get much more major agents in 00:41:15.059 --> 00:41:21.039 <v Speaker0>the future and selling over KI will be more. 00:41:21.559 --> 00:41:29.459 <v Speaker0>But the texts and everything needs to fit to your target group. 00:41:30.559 --> 00:41:31.899 <v Speaker0>The Motif Compass can help you. 00:41:33.939 --> 00:41:39.479 <v Speaker1>I see. The thing is, I do believe I'm here, unfortunately, on the forefront 00:41:39.479 --> 00:41:45.679 <v Speaker1>of getting emailed and spammed, but I've now put out only my landline and you 00:41:45.679 --> 00:41:47.019 <v Speaker1>know what my landline does? 00:41:47.199 --> 00:41:52.539 <v Speaker1>There is an AI agent answering. You just need to say two words and you get put 00:41:52.539 --> 00:41:54.299 <v Speaker1>through to my mobile phone. 00:41:54.479 --> 00:42:01.719 <v Speaker1>But actually, all, all AI calling agents, all dumb calling machines have been 00:42:01.719 --> 00:42:05.159 <v Speaker1>failing. Otherwise, my phone wouldn't stop anymore. 00:42:06.039 --> 00:42:11.099 <v Speaker1>So, sorry, we got completely sidetracked there. Sorry, guys. 00:42:11.579 --> 00:42:15.099 <v Speaker0>Then there are stupid pay eyes, I think. It's only automated shit. 00:42:15.699 --> 00:42:22.879 <v Speaker1>Yeah. What's one simple yet powerful technique startup founders can implement 00:42:22.879 --> 00:42:27.459 <v Speaker1>tomorrow to boost sales or influence? 00:42:28.599 --> 00:42:35.579 <v Speaker0>Avoid the three magic words. Think about that people would like to have a quick 00:42:35.579 --> 00:42:40.679 <v Speaker0>and easy solution and they every time ask themselves, what's in for me? 00:42:41.019 --> 00:42:45.299 <v Speaker0>And if you start with these two things, probably, yeah, with these two things. 00:42:46.774 --> 00:42:52.194 <v Speaker0>You will have more success directly because I see a lot of LinkedIn posts. 00:42:52.634 --> 00:42:57.374 <v Speaker0>I'm helping people. I do this and this. And no, come to the point directly. 00:42:58.634 --> 00:43:01.254 <v Speaker0>Come to the point. What's in for me? 00:43:02.554 --> 00:43:06.054 <v Speaker1>Yeah, I know. In Germany, you say put that by the fissure. 00:43:06.214 --> 00:43:07.294 <v Speaker0>Get to the point. 00:43:08.414 --> 00:43:12.674 <v Speaker1>Last but not least, what's the single biggest mistake you see founders make 00:43:12.674 --> 00:43:16.114 <v Speaker1>in their messaging and how can they fix it? 00:43:17.694 --> 00:43:22.114 <v Speaker0>What I saw in the past was mostly that they are really emotional. 00:43:22.114 --> 00:43:26.534 <v Speaker0>They love their babies, their products, their company. And this is how they sell it. 00:43:26.854 --> 00:43:32.134 <v Speaker0>If you are in person and the other person can feel the emotions and how you 00:43:32.134 --> 00:43:34.714 <v Speaker0>stand behind your product, it's really important. 00:43:34.974 --> 00:43:43.574 <v Speaker0>But within a direct message or an email, don't write sides of letters. 00:43:45.034 --> 00:43:53.154 <v Speaker0>Don't do it. We have the primary and I did my – yesterday in your podcast chapter 00:43:53.154 --> 00:43:56.114 <v Speaker0>was published with exactly this topic. 00:43:56.314 --> 00:43:58.214 <v Speaker0>This is something what I recommend. 00:43:58.694 --> 00:44:05.854 <v Speaker0>Primary and secondary things, what describes your products. 00:44:06.134 --> 00:44:07.954 <v Speaker0>The primary things are not –. 00:44:09.640 --> 00:44:14.520 <v Speaker0>Paying on the first brain system. 00:44:14.620 --> 00:44:17.680 <v Speaker0>The first, you need to know, we have two systems in our brain. 00:44:17.760 --> 00:44:21.240 <v Speaker0>The first is really quick and the second one is slow. 00:44:21.920 --> 00:44:27.380 <v Speaker0>So, and when I go with the primary, so with the facts, data, facts, et cetera. 00:44:27.680 --> 00:44:31.860 <v Speaker0>That's really cool. But at the end of the day, I didn't recognize it in the 00:44:31.860 --> 00:44:35.140 <v Speaker0>first brain system, in the fast system. 00:44:35.400 --> 00:44:41.460 <v Speaker0>The secondary are more emotional. What is the end status, what I can reach with 00:44:41.460 --> 00:44:43.280 <v Speaker0>your product? What is this for? 00:44:44.260 --> 00:44:50.220 <v Speaker0>And this is really important. The second, a system needs the secondary items. 00:44:51.360 --> 00:44:52.400 <v Speaker0>Really important. 00:44:54.260 --> 00:44:59.100 <v Speaker0>It's like your podcast. I can say, okay, it's the biggest one, 00:44:59.760 --> 00:45:01.340 <v Speaker0>text number three, et cetera. 00:45:01.480 --> 00:45:05.640 <v Speaker0>I have a lot of facts, 700 interviews, what you have, 00:45:05.640 --> 00:45:09.020 <v Speaker0>a lot of facts what i have about it okay does it 00:45:09.020 --> 00:45:12.020 <v Speaker0>catch me i find it cool but 00:45:12.020 --> 00:45:15.000 <v Speaker0>to listen it i don't know but at 00:45:15.000 --> 00:45:17.780 <v Speaker0>the end of the day when i say hey in my 00:45:17.780 --> 00:45:22.880 <v Speaker0>podcast you get the best people out there who give you tips you never heard 00:45:22.880 --> 00:45:30.180 <v Speaker0>about in linkedin etc in 45 minutes you had the biggest uh biggest founders 00:45:30.180 --> 00:45:35.160 <v Speaker0>with the biggest fails and the most of the tips what I can give you. 00:45:35.380 --> 00:45:37.180 <v Speaker0>Okay, this is what I would like to hear. 00:45:37.440 --> 00:45:39.740 <v Speaker0>I can do facts also about it. 00:45:40.100 --> 00:45:42.420 <v Speaker0>But facts tell. 00:45:43.200 --> 00:45:44.440 <v Speaker0>Stories sell. 00:45:45.260 --> 00:45:48.760 <v Speaker0>So learn storytelling also, please. It helps you. 00:45:49.160 --> 00:45:53.120 <v Speaker1>We usually say our claim to fame is you've likely never heard of our guests, 00:45:53.240 --> 00:45:54.180 <v Speaker1>but you will in the future. 00:45:54.760 --> 00:45:57.320 <v Speaker0>Nice. That's nice, yeah. 00:45:57.940 --> 00:46:02.260 <v Speaker1>Matthias, it was a pleasure talking to you. We will be back for our premium 00:46:02.260 --> 00:46:07.760 <v Speaker1>subscribers on YouTube and Substack and we'll have a premium Q&A session. 00:46:08.000 --> 00:46:09.700 <v Speaker1>Thank you very much. It was a pleasure having you. 00:46:10.320 --> 00:46:11.920 <v Speaker0>Thank you very much, Johan. All the best out there. 00:46:12.240 --> 00:46:42.048 <v Music>