Latest / The BIG LIFE / Question and Answer Time! Navigating Performance, Mental Health, the Recruitment Process and More!

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Question and Answer Time! Navigating Performance, Mental Health, the Recruitment Process and More! · The BIG LIFE

0:04
Hi everyone and welcome back to episode three of season two of The Big Life.
0:10
Jordan, we're twinning today.
0:11
I feel like we got some good vibes going on. How are you?
0:15
I'm good. I'm good. You're repping the Michigan State colors now that you're
0:18
graduated and moved on? I mean, no.
0:22
That's all right, though. It was a free hoodie, but I appreciate your effort.
0:26
I appreciate the try. eye yeah i just saw
0:29
iowa got their big 10 rings in the mail and everyone's like flashing
0:32
them on social media and i'm like guys mine didn't make it to
0:34
sweden like what happened it get lost in the mail or
0:37
what they just mailed them to you
0:40
guys no i mean everyone in person got theirs
0:43
i'm sure like i think mine's getting mailed to my like parents house
0:46
but i'm like dang all right this is a little sad seeing all them
0:49
flash theirs i'm just chilling in sweden that is
0:53
that is disappointing i mean it'll be
0:56
here eventually though and then you'll you'll match the the
0:59
vibes we've got going here between the co-hosts big
1:02
10 champs we got to flex or anything i
1:05
liked it i like the big 10 champ hats yeah it took me forever to get mine though
1:10
so now it's your turn to wait because ours came like two months after we won
1:15
fair enough fair enough well quite literally chilling in sweden we did get like
1:20
six inches of snow last week so that was pretty brutal but But I think the tide's turning on weather.
1:25
I think we're supposed to be like 60 for our game this weekend. So very, very excited.
1:29
Had a game last weekend. Got a really well-earned tie against a really good
1:33
team. So we'll take that as a win.
1:36
How school's wrapping up here in finals week. How's everything going with you, J?
1:41
It's going. It's going. We had our, my last spring practice,
1:45
last spring game, you know, spring season's over officially,
1:49
officially. Officially, it was very weird walking out of there,
1:52
especially because it ended, but I wasn't playing.
1:55
It was a very weird feeling knowing that, like, I'll never be in that facility
1:58
to train again, most likely.
2:00
But yeah, yeah, last spring. Spring's over for me. Now we're focusing on finals.
2:04
I had one. Both of mine are at 7.45 in the morning this year. Okay.
2:09
This week. It's ridiculous, but I had one Monday. I have one Thursday.
2:13
I have all the final projects.
2:15
Had a couple last week. It's just crazy. Absolutely crazy.
2:19
I don't... Oh, I'm jealous of you right now. Yeah, that's fair.
2:24
You know, living the no school life is pretty great. Can't complain.
2:26
All right. So for this episode, Jordan and I decided to do something a bit unique.
2:31
We didn't want to bring on a guest just because I truly want to say from the
2:35
bottom of my heart, I am so, so grateful for everyone who has been keeping up with our journey.
2:39
And especially after episode one, this season dropped where I talked about my
2:44
experiences from everything past college soccer to the NWSL draft to playing
2:49
in the NWSL, deciding going over to Sweden,
2:51
my DMS were truly flooded with people,
2:55
you know, either thanking me for sharing their stories, saying that they had similar experiences.
2:59
And so much, I had people asking me questions and truly like,
3:04
that is why we're here. Like this is why Jordan and I are doing what we're doing.
3:08
And I felt so grateful to feel connected to our audience and have them listen
3:13
to us and like have my story resonate with them in some kind of way.
3:16
I know Jordan has been getting a ton of questions lately too.
3:20
So we decided to do a bit of a mailbag episode because our DMS are piling up
3:25
and we need to start releasing some of these more.
3:27
So our hours aren't, I feel like our podcast episodes have been going from like
3:30
35 minutes to like an hour and 30.
3:33
So no one wants to listen to my voice for that long. So this one's dedicated
3:37
solely to your questions that you submitted. And we're so, so excited.
3:41
Yes, really. Thank you guys. The amount of outreach we had after season two
3:45
dropped is absolutely incredible.
3:47
It has been so fun to watch this grow and to see where we're at now and how
3:51
many questions we have. So hopefully we do it justice and give you guys the answers you want.
3:55
If not send in another one.
3:58
Exactly. And that being said, you know, if we don't get to your question today,
4:01
cause we won't get to everyone's are, we got a word doc that's just growing.
4:05
Please keep submitting them. You know, if you don't hear them on the pod,
4:09
I know I've answered individual questions and sent emails back to people in
4:13
a bunch of different ways.
4:14
So we love hearing these things. We love helping out in any way and just sharing
4:17
our journeys because the soccer world's complex and confusing and it's kind
4:22
of crazy, but we love it anyway. So it's, It's truly a joy.
4:26
Absolutely. And it's like you said, it's always changing and growing,
4:29
especially within the last couple of years.
4:31
So some of our answers might be a little outdated from where the things are
4:35
at now, but this is our experience and our journey and kind of how we got here.
4:39
Absolutely. And speaking of, we're going to do a quick ad break, but a bit different.
4:44
This isn't a paid sponsor for an ad, but this is an ad for a girl's soccer network specific program.
4:50
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4:56
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4:59
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5:28
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5:34
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5:38
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5:44
So thank you so much and consider signing up. All right. Anyway,
5:48
Jordan, let's get into some of these questions. I'm so excited.
5:52
One of them actually kind of ties into a question I wanted to ask you,
5:56
but one question we got is about a senior in high school who's going to play
6:02
college soccer, And they're kind of worried about what their summer should look like to be ready.
6:07
Jordan, what does your summer look like as you're going into your senior year?
6:11
What's the summer plan kind of for you right now?
6:14
Yeah, yeah. Mine's going to be a little unique just coming back with injury.
6:17
So right now I finally got into a new mobility brace.
6:22
I have regained full mobility in the last week of my knee and I'm doing a lot of rehab.
6:27
So I'm hoping to get on the ball training and stuff. kind of May 8th is my deadline
6:33
where I'll start training in small-sized games, not full contact yet.
6:37
And then probably two weeks after that, I'll be full contact.
6:41
So a lot of my gameplay and things of that nature are going to be in June and July.
6:46
But for most of us in college soccer, we don't play a whole lot of games.
6:51
You're kind of summer schedule.
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You'll have some girls do teams if you need to build confidence or extra touches
6:56
on the ball, game fitness, things of that nature.
6:58
But for the most part you do just a lot of training it's
7:02
a huge individual focus obviously in the summer because
7:04
you are alone it's something you have
7:07
to learn to do and I wish I would have spent more time of when I was in high
7:11
school is learning how to train efficiently just by myself because I've always
7:16
had a team surrounding me up until that point but yeah it's going to be it's
7:21
going to be a lot it's going to be a lot of fitness I'm going to be on campus
7:23
most of the time at Michigan State, which has been huge for me.
7:27
I did this my freshman year going into sophomore year. Then obviously last year I was in Australia.
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But it makes a huge difference to have your athletic trainers with you.
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They'll run me through strength and conditioning programs.
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And then if I ever need, I can always go to the coaching staff for drill ideas
7:41
and things of that nature.
7:42
They're not allowed to reach out to me, but if I go to them and talk to them
7:45
with certain issues or problems or check-in, they are allowed to obviously respond.
7:51
So yeah, that's a large part of my plan.
7:54
Hopefully, I'll be able to get some game minutes because I feel like that's
7:57
necessary for where I'm at in my process, missing most of spring in kind of June, July.
8:03
And then the whole team returns here July 11th, I think was our date or second
8:08
week of July, somewhere around there. The whole team will be back on campus training.
8:11
And then August 1st is your start date for.
8:14
College athletics again. Yeah. I think the biggest thing looking back,
8:18
you know, when I was a senior in high school, getting ready to go to college,
8:22
I think number one is, does your team have any kind of summer workouts that
8:27
are like captain's led practices or anything like that?
8:29
And if they do do everything possible to be there, I think that's super important
8:33
from not only a soccer standpoint of getting used to the level and the feel
8:37
of the team, but also a team chemistry, team bonding. So much of that happens during the summer.
8:42
Cause that's when you can go train and then go lay out by the pool or lift together
8:46
and then go grab smoothies together.
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And just like those little things where you don't have 18 places to run after,
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like you do in season are truly so important to get to know each other as a
8:55
team and build that foundation.
8:56
And I would highly recommend that the other thing, and you hear this so,
9:01
so much in athletics is controlling and controllables.
9:03
The number one controllable is your fitness. That is something that you can do.
9:07
So find out your fitness test from your coach. You'll be able to find that from
9:11
anyone in the program, if your coach doesn't text you back or you can't reach
9:14
out to your coach, reach out to someone else on the team, be able to pass that
9:17
fitness test day one and understand that when you run it with the team,
9:21
you're probably going to be a little nervous.
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So it might not be as good of a test.
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So I literally would run our college fitness test once a week.
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Like, and for me, a, it's a dang good workout.
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Like I know I'm going to get a good workout out of it and I can measure where I'm at.
9:35
So do what works for you, but be able to pass that fitness test day one,
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because that's your first impression.
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That's everyone's first impression of who you're going to be as a soccer player
9:44
and as a teammate in a lot of regards.
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So being able to nail that day one, I think is key.
9:50
Yeah, absolutely. The thing, if I were to go back in time and I were to have
9:54
that summer going into my freshman year, one thing I would do is,
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this isn't necessarily a workout program,
10:01
but I can't say it enough, is I would go in to the transfer website of whatever
10:07
school I'm going to, and I would take just one or two classes in the summer
10:11
to help ease the fall of my degree program.
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Every school has it. You'll be
10:15
able to see what credits can transfer in at different community colleges.
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You can take online classes. They'll be cheap. They'll be easy.
10:21
And you'll have that progress towards your degree to make the fall where you're
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really going to be focusing on soccer a little bit easier for you.
10:28
Things I didn't know until I got to soccer and I got to college,
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I mean, like your hydration.
10:34
I would be super focused on having
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like a nutritional plan going into college where
10:39
I'm able to sustain myself essentially and not
10:42
have to rely on my parents or anything like that preparing for college be
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super hydrated I'd have like a sleep schedule lined up
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because my one in high school was just so messed up and you
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don't want to have to start that process where you're learning to wake up on
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time and go to sleep on time once you get here in the fall because you're going
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to be already behind so I'd hone in on that making sure you have a good routine
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set that'll have let you be successful for college and part of that too is knowing
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what time you practice I'd reach out to your coaching staff and make sure that
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like if If you have morning practices,
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make sure you're up and awake and ready on time in the summer for when those
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practices are going to be. Or same thing for the nighttime practices.
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Make sure you are alert and that's not like your nap time area.
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And then, yeah, I would just, I would really focus on, like you said,
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your fitness and then your ability to like be technical on your own.
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I'd reach out to your coaching staff for different drill ideas.
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There's a bunch online, but learning how to work hard on your own,
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I think is something huge that I wish I would have known more before I got to college.
11:41
Absolutely. I love it. All right. Hit us with your next question,
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Jay. All right. What mental health programs are available to student athletes?
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So there's obviously a caveat here of that Jordan and I both went to Big Ten universities.
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So we're extremely lucky in the sense of they're really well funded and athletic programs run deep.
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And this isn't true of all levels of all places.
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That being said, I do believe there's a solid Foundation, a large majority of NCAA institutions.
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So mental health programs for at Iowa, there was kind of two different avenues.
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If I was, you know, struggling with my mental health, which I did multiple times,
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we've all talked about it, that you could go down.
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And that was either an individual or a like group setting.
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So Iowa had like these really cool events called like Hawksport Hawks that we
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would do on like Wednesday nights.
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And it was basically a group get together and they'd be like,
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all right, this theme is confidence.
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This theme is performance anxiety. And it would be athletes of all different
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sports kind of getting together and working with a sports psychologist as a
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group about talking about these things, breaking them down, you know,
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especially when it's a more generic thing.
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These were great opportunities to kind of like also understand that,
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you know, someone on the football team is very similar.
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A lot of guards to someone on the soccer team and someone who is a gymnast and
13:02
vice versa, and that we all very much struggle goal with similar things.
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The other avenue is like clinical individual sports psychology.
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So we had a sports psychologist that was assigned to our team that we could
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set up appointments with.
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I was seeing them on and off throughout my entire college career and do very
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much individualized one-on-one clinical setting.
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And this was not only for mental health conditions, such as,
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you know, depression, anxiety, all these things, but it could also be like sport
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performance training, visualization, all these other things.
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There's two different avenues that you could kind of talk to with a therapist
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about what you wanted to go down.
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And then if it was even more extreme, like I've been very open in my setting,
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you know, from those clinical settings, they recommended antidepressants.
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Extremely fortunately, the insurance, the University of Iowa covered them.
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So I was on antidepressants for four years at Iowa for free, which was incredible.
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And I'm so, so thankful for that during my career at college.
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So there is so, so many avenues at these universities, the biggest thing is asking.
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And there's so many connected people. I loved my coach.
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Everyone knows I loved my coach. I don't know if I would have felt comfortable
14:13
going to him, but your athletic trainer, your academic support staff,
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there's all these connections of avenues of, hey, I need help. Where can I get it?
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And they all very much know these answers. It's all about being willing to ask.
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Absolutely. And I think that you brought up a really good point here.
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And it depends on the university.
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It's something I didn't really realize or think about until I started talking
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to some of my other friends that were in other levels of soccer or athletics
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in general, how much that matters.
14:46
And you get the question a lot where it's like, what about the difference between
14:49
Division I, Division II, Division III, NAIA? And what I'll say is sometimes they can compete.
14:56
Like sometimes it's not the level of talent, but it is the level of funding
14:59
you'll see at these different universities.
15:01
A large part of that being the free health care that you receive at Division
15:05
I and specifically Big Ten, which we've been blessed to be a part of here. year.
15:10
It's extremely well-funded where we do have free healthcare essentially,
15:13
and you have access to a lot more resources than you do at other universities.
15:18
I'm sure that at some of the other levels, you'll still have access to these things.
15:23
However, it may come out of your own pocket or insurance where they can set
15:26
you up with more connections rather than having them on campus like we did.
15:29
Michigan State is very similar to what you have where our team specifically
15:33
worked with a sports psychologist just for women's soccer. We hired him.
15:37
And then we have access through a university for psychiatrists,
15:41
psychologists, different avenues for that, depending on what you need,
15:45
they'll recommend and you can meet with them as often as you need and like.
15:49
And from there, you can decide on what the best route is for you to continue
15:53
with your mental health support.
15:55
But it really does depend on the university and what they offer.
15:58
For us, this has been our experience.
16:00
Yeah. I think that's a great point, Jordan, in understanding these are the differences
16:04
at the levels and the differences at levels that you're making when you're a
16:08
high schooler doesn't necessarily always regard on, oh, D1 better than D2 and all that.
16:13
Like there is so, so many D2 schools that we both know of that could beat many
16:17
D1 programs and vice versa and all of the above.
16:20
I think it's just understanding what you're getting at all of these different levels.
16:25
Absolutely. All right. So we've talked a little bit about recruiting process.
16:29
Let's go into it more. Let's go back to our high school brains.
16:32
If we can even think about it.
16:33
How much of a role does your high school academics play into being able to get
16:39
recruited at a college soccer level?
16:41
Okay. So in my experience.
16:44
Well, OK, I've always had really, really good grades. So in my experience,
16:48
like it was never an issue.
16:49
However, it depends on where you're at. Having really, really good grades,
16:53
I think, will make you more competitive if you need a certain scholarship amount to go to university.
16:58
Because this allows a university to give you academic scholarship support rather
17:03
than athletic, and it allows the athletic department to keep that money and
17:07
hold it for another player.
17:08
You know, it makes all of that a lot easier because you have limited scholarships
17:12
available to give to athletes to come to your team.
17:15
And if you're not taking it out of the athletic portion, it allows them to recruit
17:18
other high-level individuals because you're on academic money.
17:21
And then in the middle there, I don't think it really affects if you have decent
17:26
grades, maybe not enough for academic scholarship funds.
17:29
I think it doesn't really affect your recruiting process as much,
17:33
but you may receive less money because you don't have that as an option,
17:37
or you may have to be kind of filtered into different programs with what you decide to do in college.
17:43
You may not have as many majors available to you from the team.
17:46
They may, you know, tell you to do something a little bit differently, which is valid.
17:50
And then if your grades are really questionable, though, like a school is not
17:54
going to take that risk on you because you still have to meet certain standards
17:57
to be academically eligible to play at this level.
18:00
If you are a risk, there's no reason for them to keep you on the team and for
18:04
them to spend money on you for you to sit the bench and lose it within the first
18:08
semester because you don't meet the requirements set by the NCAA to be able to participate.
18:12
You know, this is so funny to me, Jay, only because I can tell how differently
18:17
our brains operate when we like get the same question, but we think about it so differently.
18:22
So Jordan just gave you a business lecture, which is 100% true.
18:26
It's money standpoint. At the end of the day, we've all seen it.
18:29
College athletics is a business.
18:31
I see it as an asset production.
18:35
Listen, I'm not saying every single person needs to have a 4.0 GPA.
18:39
I totally understand that that That is not feasible.
18:42
That is not something that everyone either can or wants to put the time in or
18:46
all those different things to achieve.
18:48
100%. That being said, I am coming from the caveat of I was my high school valedictorian.
18:53
So there is a range there.
18:57
I view academics, especially in high school, as a first impression.
19:01
When you are going and you are getting recruited by a college,
19:05
you are pitching yourself to them.
19:07
I am pitching Sam Carey to this college because I want to be a part of it.
19:12
Yes, as a soccer player. That being said, college is about more.
19:16
And I fully believe that your grades plus your football ability tells a lot about you as a person.
19:23
If you are a great player, but your grades absolutely suck.
19:28
A, this person with a great player, but not great grades and a medium player
19:33
with medium grades has maybe a better chance of getting recruited just because
19:37
it's easier for for them to see, okay, I also think it says a lot about work ethic.
19:42
This might be a really hot tape and I'm sorry about it if I'm wrong. I understand.
19:46
Let me just caveat this. I understand there's situations where this does not apply.
19:50
That being said, at a certain point, academics are based on how hard you're willing to try.
19:58
I'm not saying that that's a 4.0, but I'm saying that above a 2.5 is how hard you're willing to try.
20:05
And how much time you're willing to put in. If I'm a coach recruiting you,
20:09
I see that if you're beneath that standpoint, you're not willing to put the time in.
20:14
And if you're not willing to put the time to that, who's to say you're willing
20:18
to put the time into my program?
20:20
So everything when it comes to academics, though, yes, it helps with scholarships,
20:23
though, yes, it tells who you are and what you want to be and how you're going
20:28
to grow at the football level.
20:29
And I think that that's a really big caveat when it comes to all of this.
20:33
Yeah. Yeah. It's something that Jeff, my coach says all the time is that you
20:37
are what you do all the time.
20:39
That if you are disciplined, you are going to be disciplined both in academics and both on the field.
20:44
If you are hardworking, if you have a good work ethic, it's going to show up
20:47
both in the classroom and on the field. So I think that's a really good point.
20:51
Clearly, we thought about that question very differently.
20:54
But I think both remain true. Two different aspects of it. And you got a little
20:59
bit of both there. So. All right, Sam.
21:02
So a question we get a lot because after you get to college soccer,
21:06
how important is the recovery process during the season as you stay healthy
21:09
throughout the entire fall?
21:11
Okay. So you're talking to an old lady here and by old lady,
21:14
yes, I'm 23 at heart. My bones crack like crazy.
21:18
I feel like I'm definitely old. My last college soccer season, I felt old.
21:23
I think that recovery is the reason I I got through.
21:26
And valuing that time and understanding what your body needs is crucial to having
21:33
a healthy college career.
21:35
And that's obviously not saying you're going to be healthy the whole time and all those things.
21:38
But I think a lot of it is like, hey, listen, some people are going to be able
21:42
because they just can to just not do a cool down and not ever be in the ice
21:47
bath and not do all those things and still be happy, perky and bouncy.
21:51
I am not one of those people. I know No, crazy.
21:54
That being said, I think that you need to understand that your own recovery
21:58
time is very individualized to you and you need to listen to your own body.
22:02
And just because so-and-so doesn't want to get in an ice bath or do whatever
22:06
doesn't mean that you don't have to.
22:08
And so understanding what modalities work for you, all those things.
22:13
But the number one thing of recovery and something I honestly don't think I
22:16
learned well enough until my sophomore and junior year is if you are not drinking enough water,
22:21
if you are not sleeping eight to nine hours a night, if you are not well nourishing
22:25
your body, all the fancy ice baths, massages, Normatex,
22:30
Theraguns aren't going to do anything.
22:32
That is the foundation of recovery and everything else is just building on top
22:37
of it. Absolutely. I don't think I could have said it any better myself.
22:41
Those are the main pillars. You have to have good sleep, nutrition,
22:44
and hydration, or like you said, the rest of it just doesn't matter.
22:48
It's banded on a bullet wound. It is not going to do anything here.
22:51
For Michigan State, we are mandated to roll out and
22:54
do band stretching after every practice in every
22:57
single game and we are also mandated to then get into
23:00
the ice bath for at least 10 minutes after every single practice
23:03
in every single game I didn't know that coming into it
23:06
and once you get into it I was like there's no way like I hate being cold you
23:09
want me to sit into this puddle of ice water for 10 minutes every single day
23:13
it has been such a huge help and you really feel the difference once I go from
23:18
summer where I'm home and maybe training and I don't have access to those things
23:22
where I'm used to it every day.
23:24
And then I come back and you feel a difference in your body and the recovery process for sure.
23:28
So that's been what has helped me, but I don't think I could have said it any
23:32
better that sleep, nutrition, and hydration are the most important aspects that
23:35
go into it. And it makes a huge difference in your performance.
23:39
I got by in high school. I thought I was fine. I played well.
23:44
It does not translate to the next level if you're not doing those things.
23:47
You will not be able to to keep up and your body will slowly fall apart.
23:51
You know, at 21 years old, I feel like I'm 80 some days, like it will fall apart.
23:57
And I think the really interesting about recovery in general,
23:59
too, is the expectations you have, you know, now being a pro,
24:03
we don't do team cool down.
24:05
No one's handing you a foam roller in our band after training,
24:09
you know, no one's telling you to get an ice bath.
24:11
It's all about your own knowledge of your body and knowing what you need and
24:15
advocating for what you need.
24:17
Sometimes, you know, I went to our athletic trainer the other day,
24:19
and I was like, can we draw an ice bath?
24:21
I'm really feeling it. And so you do have to go out of your way and advocate
24:25
for yourself and understand what you need.
24:27
And I think that that's what you learn in college. So truly figuring that out
24:31
that way, if you are choosing to take that next step, knowing that you're going
24:35
to need to do it on your own.
24:37
Yeah, yeah, it's a really interesting part of it. All right.
24:40
So that being said, have you always been a starter?
24:43
What is it like to be a practice only player? How did you or someone else maybe
24:47
overcome that adversity? Or do you just embrace the situation?
24:52
Yeah, Yeah, this is a good one. This, I think, encompasses a lot of my career
24:58
thus far is being a little bit of both.
25:01
I definitely have not always started, but I've never been a practice-only player.
25:05
Really, I've always found my way into most games, even if it's just for sometimes
25:11
eight minutes, four minutes.
25:13
So I can't speak to that part as much, but I think it's a similar mentality.
25:18
It's really, really hard. It is extremely hard to go into a situation where
25:22
you think you're going to have an immediate impact and you believe that you're
25:26
good enough and that you're training hard enough and that you succeed expectations
25:31
for you to be able to go onto the field and then you're not.
25:34
I mean, it can be truly, truly heartbreaking and it's something really, really hard to get over.
25:39
But I think you definitely do just have to embrace the role and you just have
25:44
to have the mindset that no matter what happens, you are going to make a difference on the team.
25:48
Good or bad, you have to be able to put yourself in a situation where they're
25:52
going to notice you and try your hardest.
25:55
And even if you mess up, at least you tried. because I think what
25:58
happens a lot of times is players start to give up and they start
26:00
to just really like shelter down and look within and
26:04
kind of shut down as they begin to play and
26:06
they get in their head a lot and you see them kind of
26:09
spiral and I think what's helped me out of a lot of the situations especially
26:14
my sophomore year where I was consistently just kind of given different roles
26:18
where disappointment I think comes from where your expectations don't meet it
26:23
your reality and I thought I was good enough to be on the field a lot more than I was.
26:27
And I wasn't seeing it and it took me
26:30
a while but eventually I learned that you just
26:33
you definitely just have to embrace it like you have the opportunity to go out
26:37
there every day to be a part of this team and I never would have thought I made
26:42
it this far I accomplished more than I ever dreamed possible and the fact that
26:45
I'm getting upset over these minutes and something I can't control is crazy.
26:49
So what you have to do is you have to work harder.
26:51
Simple as that. You just have to go out there and you have to work harder than
26:55
everybody else. And you have to make it so incredibly obvious that you belong out there.
26:59
And that comes from both a talent standpoint and a voice.
27:03
Make sure you're being the first one there at practice, putting out cones,
27:06
picking up cones, throwing everything you can at the wall and embracing that
27:10
role and not letting yourself give up.
27:13
Yeah, no, I think that's a great, great feedback. And, you know,
27:15
in my career, I have been blessed to be a starter in a lot of different scenarios.
27:20
And the first time I was really faced with something like this was during my time at Louisville.
27:23
I was well aware I wasn't going to be a starter and I was well aware I likely
27:27
wasn't going to find opportunity on the field in a lot of different ways.
27:30
And so I think the biggest thing is, you know, hit it on the head saying,
27:35
like, embrace your role, you know, be the best goddamn practice player there
27:39
is be the best scout team player there is do everything possible.
27:42
And when you can remove it from an individual, though, yes, it is frustrating
27:46
as an individual, and see it as a team picture, you can still find a way to be connected.
27:51
And so finding your way that you do connected, you are valued.
27:55
And if you don't feel valued, speak up and get that from your coach.
27:58
I think so much of college athletics is advocacy and understanding that you
28:03
do need to advocate yourself.
28:04
You don't have your parents anymore. Your college coach or your high school
28:07
coach isn't going to coddle you like your college coach did or vice versa.
28:11
You know what I'm trying to say? Your high school coach coddled you and your
28:14
college coach won't. So understand that you do need to be adult about these situations.
28:19
Also, the number one rule and number one way to destroy your standing in a team
28:24
is to be a bad teammate in a locker room.
28:26
The number one rule is to not Not go into the locker room when you think you
28:29
should be playing over so-and-so and talk about it and create the drama.
28:33
That is a conversation between you and a coach. And holding that as professional
28:38
as possible and separating the personal aspect and the personal hurt of that
28:42
is going to help you regain your standing in so many ways.
28:46
Absolutely. My sophomore year, I was deemed by Jeff several times and kind of
28:52
the quote and all the interviews I did was super sub, which was absolutely heartbreaking
28:58
to hear at the time because I wanted to be a super starter.
29:00
But looking back at it, I think it's a proud kind of name that I can wear and be like, I did that.
29:07
You know, it wasn't easy, but I played well and I put my all into it and I battled.
29:12
I battled every single game.
29:14
And luckily for me, the last game of the season in the NCAA tournament,
29:19
I did end up getting my start and played 90 minutes.
29:21
So the hard work, not in all cases, but hopefully in most, it does pay off if
29:27
you really are putting your all into it and you're showing up every day.
29:30
They'll see it. The other thing is, like you said, it's advocacy.
29:34
So for me, when I wasn't getting what I want, it felt like the coaching staff
29:38
was giving up on me. Like I had created this entire narrative in my head about
29:43
what they were thinking and about what they wanted for me in my career.
29:48
And I was like, I had this whole thing, you know, this whole circumstance where
29:53
I thought I knew exactly what Jeff was thinking. And it turns out we had our end of the year meeting.
29:58
I was couldn't be more wrong. wrong and what I learned from that
30:01
is you have to go to your coaching staff and you have to have those conversations even
30:04
if they're hard I'm not saying to go in there and demand more time
30:08
or anything like that but to be like hey like I feel
30:11
like I've been playing really well like what are your thoughts like what can
30:15
I do better to get out there and kind of get a plan together just be like hey
30:20
like what are you thinking like what's going on right now like here's where
30:24
I'm at where are you at just being able to be on the same page with your coaching
30:28
staff because I think for me that
30:29
was the hardest part was creating a narrative that simply wasn't true
30:32
about my coaching staff and what they saw for me because it felt
30:34
like to me they had given up and I was pushed to the side and turns out none
30:38
of that was true but yeah I think I think you haven't had advocacy for yourself
30:43
and being able to voice your your thoughts and opinions with your coaching staff
30:47
is a huge part of it all right so going backwards a little bit going into the
30:52
recruiting process a little bit bit more.
30:54
How would you like to see the recruiting process changed for future women's
30:59
players, especially for those who may not have as much visibility?
31:03
Yeah, this is a like, again, a really, really good question.
31:06
The biggest thing I'd love to see change is the kind of pay to play aspect that has grown for us.
31:13
The difference between even when I got recruited, which was still a pay to play
31:18
scenario compared to where my sister's at, she's 10 years younger than me.
31:22
So she is going through it right now.
31:24
She's 11, you know, just starting her club process and doing all this stuff. It is so different.
31:30
And it's become also a lot more...
31:33
Focused, I guess I would say, where you are having parents and coaching and all of that.
31:40
They're forcing kids to pick a main sport super early in their career.
31:44
And they're setting it up where you don't have any time or opportunity to do
31:47
anything outside of soccer if this is what you're choosing.
31:50
And I think that's heartbreaking to see because some of the best athletes I've
31:55
been able to play college soccer with have been multi-sport athletes.
31:58
I think it's a huge benefit to playing multiple sports for as long as you can
32:03
to make you a better soccer player. And I truly believe it does translate.
32:08
I was a three-sport athlete throughout all of high school. I did basketball
32:11
and track, and I wouldn't change it for the entire world. I think it was great.
32:16
I learned so much from being on those teams to be able to be a good soccer player.
32:20
And the fact that they're making these kids choose at such a young age,
32:23
it's really hard. I think it's going to create a lot of burnout and going to
32:26
have an opposite effect for the recruiting process.
32:28
And then the pay-to-play aspect, like you have incredibly talented kids who
32:33
aren't getting the visibility they need simply because they can't afford it.
32:36
You know, these coaching staff and the way they're setting up now,
32:40
they're got your alphabet soup leagues, which we'll get into in a little bit here.
32:44
But if you're not part of those top leagues, it's really hard to get visibility
32:47
now where when we were going through it, I felt like it was a little bit easier and.
32:52
I think it's changing a lot where it's becoming a lot harder to get that visibility.
32:57
Yeah, I think the hardest thing about recruiting now, and obviously,
33:00
you know, Jordan has a bit of an edge having a sister going through it,
33:03
is the fact that you can look everywhere,
33:08
meaning social media, and see what everyone else is doing and somehow feel that
33:12
you're not doing enough.
33:13
And I feel like that pressure has been added on to youth soccer that but now
33:19
11-year-olds and 10-year-olds are feeling that they're not doing enough.
33:23
Love to shout out someone that emailed me asking questions. And she emailed
33:28
me because she's like, I'm a panic soccer mom right now.
33:30
And my eight-year-old, I don't know where she should go either pre-ECNL or GA
33:35
or all these things. And I'm like, she's eight.
33:38
And it really just took me to the reality that this is a level that we're pressuring each other to.
33:42
And another one of her questions was sports. She's like, everyone's telling
33:45
me to specialize sports. And I'm like, she's eight.
33:48
And so that's just beyond crazy to me that that's like the level of pressure.
33:51
And I think the number one thing we need to change is that we need to let people
33:55
fall in love and enjoy the game of soccer and not pressure an eight-year-old
33:59
to make a decision about what team she needs to play to figure out about her
34:01
college future and understand that these decisions can be made at later times.
34:06
But if you don't even like soccer, it's not a point.
34:09
And so, you know, I feel like it's just, and then we put the pressure on kids
34:12
to like soccer or because their family made this commitment,
34:15
that's where we get the level of burnout that we do.
34:17
And so I think the biggest thing I would change is just a big slowdown of everything
34:21
and of social media and of all of that.
34:24
And a big advantage did happen. The college recruiting process is so much slower now than what we did.
34:29
We did it when we were freshmen and sophomores. At least I did.
34:32
But understanding that though the NCAA has slowed down the process,
34:39
the process hasn't still been slowed down. Yeah, yeah.
34:42
If anything, from what I've seen, and maybe I just wasn't in these groups to
34:47
see it all as I am now when I get these questions.
34:50
But it feels like, if anything, it's definitely sped up where you're having
34:54
kids at a very, very young age make these decisions for the rest of their future.
34:59
Like trying to get recruited in college at eight years old is absolutely insane.
35:04
And I think what a lot of things happen or a lot of things that are happening
35:08
as parents making these decisions, like you said, and putting all the pressure on the child.
35:12
The biggest advice I'd give to any parent is you cannot sign up for club soccer
35:16
thinking it will pay off, thinking you will get your investment back.
35:20
99.9% of you will not. You are going to spend the money. You're going to go to these things.
35:26
You're going to spend the time and you are not going to get that money back
35:29
in terms of a scholarship or anything of that nature.
35:31
And I I think that's what a lot of parents think and why they push it so hard
35:34
and spend all this money is because they think they're going to get a return on investment.
35:38
You cannot go into it with that mindset. It is going to ruin your child and
35:42
you're most likely not going to get that money back.
35:45
And I think it's just absolutely crazy. That's what it's come to and how many
35:50
people believe that and are showing that and going through that.
35:53
Yeah. But that's the biggest advice I give to parents is don't sign up for anything
35:57
thinking it's going to pay off in the end.
35:58
Do it because your child loves it and because you want to give them that opportunity
36:02
and because you think it's going to be what's best for them in this moment,
36:06
not because you're setting them up for some fantastical future that you are
36:11
dreaming and believing will financially pay off for you. Yeah.
36:16
And so I'm just going to phase right into our next question because it transitions perfectly.
36:20
The question was, can you go into a deep discussion about the alphabet soup of soccer leagues.
36:27
And can someone not playing in those leagues still have the same opportunities
36:30
that someone is playing in those leagues?
36:32
So my number one caveat here is that it depends and most likely,
36:38
and I know that doesn't really make sense.
36:40
I will go out and say, yes, it is true.
36:43
There are some D1 programs, maybe D2, D3, I can only speak to D1,
36:47
that will only recruit someone playing in the ECNL or playing in the GA or what
36:53
they deem one of those top leagues.
36:56
I can tell you Iowa is not one of them. I can tell you there's a lot of schools
37:00
that aren't one of those programs, but there are some out there.
37:03
Like it's just a frankly reality of the situation.
37:06
I do know of a couple. I ran across a couple in my recruiting base.
37:09
That being said, as someone who has seen a lot of the level of ECNL versus GA
37:17
versus regional league versus all these other crazy things,
37:22
So I think that, yes, it would be naive to say that all of them are the same.
37:28
All leagues are the same. There are inherently some differences,
37:32
and therefore it's going to depend what you want your outcome to be.
37:37
I also think that there are situations where there are special situations and
37:41
special players that don't need the little boost of other things.
37:46
And so, you know, I'll go out and say, I do frankly believe right now in the
37:50
United States, ECNL and GA are top leagues.
37:54
I think that they have your highest success rate. Do I think ECNL versus GA matters?
38:00
I think the biggest thing that matters is your location. You know,
38:03
I can't say that the ECNL versus GA in St.
38:06
Louis is the same as the ECL versus GA in maybe Idaho, you know,
38:11
where there might be more or less competition.
38:13
I think that's not fair. I think the number one thing that your daughter needs
38:18
to be doing is playing for a coach where you're going to actually be on the field.
38:21
You know, if you have aspirations of playing college soccer,
38:24
but you never touch the field on your ECNL team, is it worth it being on the
38:28
ECNL team? Are you really going to get recruited?
38:30
I think that's a blank question. I think a lot of people go into the alphabet
38:34
soup of it, expecting a title to get them somewhere.
38:38
The title will get you a leg up in some situations. It will not get you a result
38:42
because if you're not playing, if you don't like the coach, if you do not gel
38:46
well, if they do not respect your style, all of these different things,
38:49
it's not going to work out for you in the long run.
38:52
And so I think there just needs to be an understanding of what your goals are.
38:55
And yes, I think a lot of leagues can get you a lot of places.
38:58
You know, I referee a lot as we know.
39:02
And I've refereed at the USYS National Championships, which feature a lot of
39:06
state cup winning programs that aren't your ECNL programs or different filters.
39:11
It's a different pathway.
39:13
I think those players are incredibly talented. And a lot of them I know go to top level colleges.
39:19
And so I think the biggest thing is understanding that yes, ECNL,
39:22
GA, they get you visibility.
39:24
They get your foot in the door maybe a little bit more than playing for your
39:28
local club, but you have to understand what goals you're going into.
39:32
And I think the biggest way to answer that is go on the team's website,
39:35
look at where their current seniors are signing to college.
39:39
Maybe that's your idea of where you see yourself because there is some inherent difference.
39:45
But, you know, some teams may have the top of the top and that might not be
39:49
what you want, but other teams have the level girls signing to the level that
39:52
you see fit. And so it's all about understanding that.
39:55
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think you said it really, really well there where
39:59
the title gets you visibility, but it does not guarantee you a spot in any sort of team.
40:03
I will say that we have kind of a whiteboard in our coach's office with what
40:08
they're doing and where they're going and kind of their schedule.
40:10
And most of the places they do go are there's ECNL and GA showcases and events like that.
40:15
I think that will guarantee you probably the most exposure at this point in
40:19
time at this level to high level college programs, such as, you know,
40:23
those power conferences.
40:25
But like you said, it doesn't guarantee you anything in that sort of nature.
40:29
I will say if you're not in some of those top program or ECNL and GA,
40:35
and if you're not getting all that exposure from showcases and all that stuff,
40:38
I would recommend you definitely do some ID camps.
40:41
Yes. And go to the ones where you can compete against players that maybe they
40:46
had already committed or, you know, are coming in or they're interested in where
40:50
not all ID camps are the same.
40:52
You do have to do some research about
40:54
when they are and about what they're looking for at certain ID camps.
40:57
Some are a money grab, I will say, and like others are definitely looking for
41:01
talent in recruiting and you have to be able to distinct which one's which.
41:05
What college want to see is you compete against the highest level because that's
41:11
what they expect from you when you get here is for you to be able to compete at the highest level.
41:14
And if you're not in or on a team that's going to push you to be successful
41:19
in that nature and that you're not competing against people who are better than
41:22
you or just as good as you, if you are just the top dog and,
41:26
you know, kind of a bad program,
41:27
as good as you may look and as good as your stats may be, I will say it's going
41:31
to be really hard for a college coach to look at you and be able to think whether
41:34
or not you're going to have success at the next level because you're not competing
41:37
against people that are going to be able to translate to that college level.
41:40
So like you said, it all depends.
41:43
I do think it is really helpful and important for exposure.
41:46
However, it really does depend what you are looking for and what level you're trying to go to.
41:50
And if you're not going to do it, I do think you do have to do some extra work
41:54
in the recruiting process in terms of emails and getting your name out there
41:58
and going to ID camps and doing different things of that nature because the
42:02
natural exposure that's built into those teams is you're not going to receive.
42:05
Yeah, I think that's a really, really good point. And And, you know,
42:08
I think it's enough said that the pay-to-play structure that we have in all
42:12
of these leagues do make life for kids and parents so extremely exhausting and tiring.
42:18
So it's so sad that, like, we have to be on here saying this kind of stuff.
42:22
That being said, it is, frankly, the world we live in.
42:25
And I think that Jordan said it really well. You know, you're not shooting yourself
42:29
in the foot by not playing on one of these fancy alphabet soup level teams.
42:33
However, you do have to understand that you may have to put in extra work to
42:37
get the same result, which isn't inherently a bad thing either.
42:40
It's just all understanding where you want to go and where your goals can be
42:44
and really knowing that going into a decision.
42:47
Absolutely. I think knowledge is power for this and just knowing what you have
42:50
to do to get that level and knowing where you stand in terms of their eyes is
42:54
the most important part.
42:55
So with that, Sam, what are your thoughts on ODP?
43:00
So I can only come from it from a standpoint that I know.
43:04
And to be frank, I did do ODP when I was 12 and when I was 13,
43:09
and I had a really fun experience.
43:11
And I met people from all across the state that I still know and watch their
43:15
careers and played with and against. And I had a ton of fun.
43:18
That being said, if the bigger picture is ODP and where can I get you?
43:21
It didn't do anything for me.
43:23
And everyone's different. I quit when I was 13. Maybe if I would have kept up
43:27
with it, I would have had some other cool experiences or whatnot.
43:29
I think ODP is frankly, though it is advertised as like a best in your state,
43:35
best in your region, all these things. I think it's just another alphabet soup.
43:39
You know, my ECNL team didn't let us play ODP. So that's why I quit,
43:43
you know, so they sometimes take the best talent and pull that out already.
43:47
You know, there's certain caveats and it's extra games and all this stuff.
43:51
I think it just, frankly it might be a great solution to
43:54
say your show you know a college that you're competing against
43:57
a great level if you can get to that national odp level and you're playing on
44:02
a local or like a team without the fancy name behind it that could be a great
44:05
way to get good games against good quality opponents for coaches to see you
44:09
know that's kind of once again measuring that but i think at the end of the
44:12
day it is just mixed in with the rest of the alphabet soup.
44:16
Yeah i agree i don't think anyone's really getting recruited solely on an odp
44:20
thing i I think that's a good point, especially with the way social media has
44:23
changed the recruiting process, that if you could get film against some of these
44:26
top players and you're doing well, that could help you.
44:29
For me, ODP, I did it for a year or two, like didn't really do much with it.
44:35
A lot of girls on club kind of joined it, but it was just a great experience.
44:39
It was kind of like the first step in growing up and seeing what it was like.
44:42
You're traveling without your parents and just a lot of other kids are there.
44:45
And it was it was just a lot of fun. I definitely met a lot of girls that I
44:50
see now at the Big Ten level and they were a part of it, but nobody got recruited based off of it.
44:55
I think it was just a really fun and unique experience that if you're in it
44:59
for that, I would do it for that.
45:01
If you're in it because you think you're going to get recruited off of it,
45:03
I would say probably find something else or somewhere else to go. Yeah, absolutely.
45:08
And going off of this, someone has put out there that since university soccer
45:13
programs don't really have a recruiting or travel budget, did you use social
45:17
media to get your name out there to college coaches? I did not.
45:21
I think it is probably necessary now, though.
45:25
It is a huge part of the game. We have interviewed both my coach and your coach,
45:31
and both of them have said how it's changed and how they use it now in the recruiting process.
45:34
I think anyone can put together a good highlight reel, right?
45:38
And that's not going to be what makes a difference for you. However...
45:42
Being able to showcase some of your unique talents and being able to put together
45:46
maybe full game films and send it to coaching staff where you're not getting
45:51
just the highlight clips,
45:52
but they're able to see you compete at a high level where maybe they're not
45:55
able to go to your showcase or you're in not one of these alphabet soup places,
45:59
but you can show them what you're doing.
46:00
I do think it's really, really helpful.
46:02
And if anything else, it just gets your name out there where when you send that
46:06
email, they recognize it, they open it, and they spend maybe a little bit more
46:10
time going through your bio sheet and whatever you send them.
46:13
I do think it's changed a lot. And definitely seeing where it's at now is completely
46:18
different than when we did it.
46:19
And I would recommend anyone to kind of just start getting into the social media
46:23
aspect of soccer if they're looking and they're young and looking to get recruited
46:26
at this point. Yeah, I think it's really interesting.
46:29
And it's something that I think both Jordan and I can't necessarily speak on
46:33
our own experiences, but we can speak on experiences we've heard.
46:36
First of all, I do want to say the budget for college coaches to recruit is not nothing.
46:42
They do spend a lot of time going to events, going to games,
46:46
going to showcases, especially in the off time of the spring season when fall,
46:52
they're not recruiting.
46:53
They're focusing on their own season. But when they're not, you know,
46:55
they are going to a lot of these events. So I want to kind of like get that out there.
46:59
However, I do think social media is part of the game.
47:02
You know, I still haven't fully formed my opinion on how important it is,
47:07
but I think it's an opportunity that's free. And why wouldn't you take it?
47:12
You know, I'm sure there are so many people at this level who don't even have
47:16
a Twitter account or, you know, aren't active on their social media and are
47:19
still getting recruited. I do not think it is a, oh my God, you absolutely have
47:24
to have this to get recruited.
47:26
That being said, a Twitter account is free.
47:28
And if you are going to take the time to show yourself on social media,
47:33
I think social media and how you use it can be a whole nother different discussion.
47:37
It can be an idea of like, I think social media is a first impression as to who you are as a person.
47:42
And if I'm a coach looking at your social media, I don't want to just recruit
47:45
a robot who is only saying all the right things, but I want them to be people.
47:49
And I want to know that they got on their school's honor roll and that their
47:53
friend was a basketball state champion and they are hyping them up or whatever it is. It may seem silly.
47:58
I think that social media is an avenue for a coach to know you're interested.
48:02
I think tagging coaches and things is really a great opportunity that kids have nowadays.
48:07
I think that you shouldn't tag a head coach every single day.
48:10
I think that you shouldn't tag 75 coaches because you just want some attention
48:13
and you should be narrowing that list and understanding why you're specifically
48:18
tagging a coach at a certain thing.
48:20
I think there's a lot of caveats to social media.
48:24
That being said, I think Jordan nailed it on the head with the number one thing
48:27
social media does is guess what?
48:29
I just saw your name on my phone because you came up on my Twitter feed and you sent me an email.
48:33
That's two times your name has been in front of my eyes. Now I might pay more attention.
48:38
It's getting your name in front of people. And then that way,
48:41
when they see you on a roster, when they see you on a stat list,
48:44
when they see you on an email, they take you all the more serious because they recognize the name.
48:49
And I think that's the biggest thing that social media does for a player.
48:52
And once again, it's free. So why not take advantage of that?
48:55
Yeah, absolutely. The thing, once you start that social media account that I've
49:00
seen kind of have a lot of or more success is training drills.
49:03
Like record yourself in your garage doing technical foot skill stuff.
49:07
And like I said before, one of my coach's favorite kind of quotes is you are what you do all the time.
49:14
And if you are constantly posting different training drills and things you're
49:17
doing like that, I think it is a great first impression to have to show you're
49:20
dedicated in your work ethic and that you're willing to put the time in to get
49:24
better. which is what coaches are ultimately looking for.
49:27
So again, like you said, I don't think it's an end-all be-all,
49:30
but I do think it's a great tool that you have available now and that's growing.
49:34
And I don't see any reason not to use it.
49:37
Although make sure you are keeping a clean social media. You don't want to have
49:41
anything on there if you are trying to get recruited that is going to go the
49:44
other way, which I think goes without saying.
49:47
Don't put anything out there that's going to give you a bad look or a bad impression.
49:51
Because you still see that sometimes, especially
49:54
with with how popular social media is
49:57
nowadays is just kids doing stupid things and
50:00
it gets a snap the picture of it and it's out there and then
50:03
you know you have coaches look the other way because it's not worth the risk
50:05
to them exactly exactly all right ending this podcast on a little bit of a fun
50:10
note what is the most fun about being a part of a team I think at the end of
50:15
the day it's not you're not going to remember like the goals you scored or the
50:19
games you won or any of that sort of stuff.
50:22
You're going to remember all the little moments in between that you had with
50:25
your teammates, all the stupid jokes and the silly things you did on trips and just all of those.
50:34
Moments in between. You're going to remember how you felt at that time.
50:38
And I think that's the most special part about being on the team is that you
50:41
have built in best friends and that you have this connection for the rest of your life.
50:46
Nobody else will get to experience what you experienced being on this team together,
50:51
competing at this level, going through all the lows and all the highs.
50:55
And I think it's something super special. And it's my favorite part is to look
50:59
back on those moments and just smile and be like.
51:03
We did that. We did that. We did it together. And I wouldn't change it for the world.
51:07
Yeah, I think that's the number one thing. Like, listen, we all know I'm not in college anymore.
51:11
And when I look back on Iowa, as much as I love the games won and all those
51:15
things, it's never going to be that.
51:17
It's going to be this stupid stuff we did in the locker room,
51:19
the pranks we pulled on each other, the laughing over someone falling at training,
51:25
you know, all those little things.
51:26
And so I think being a part of a team is just, you
51:29
get to be with people that every day that have the same goal as you
51:32
are that is fighting as hard as you are and there's something
51:34
truly bonding in that and i think that's the most
51:37
remarkable part about it and that's why we all love team sports you know soccer
51:40
is not an individual sport and that's probably one of the best things about
51:43
it i like individual sports but it's just a whole different mentality and so
51:46
having that is truly special yeah absolutely all right i think we intended for
51:50
that to be a shorter episode and i don't think it was at all i absolutely love it
51:55
guys your questions truly mean the world to us and i think it's really
51:58
great that we got to take some time to really dive into them answer some
52:01
of them getting on some soapboxes a little bit but it's absolutely incredible
52:05
keep them coming scary at girlssoccernetwork.com or both of our instagram dms
52:11
it's a great place to drop them off as well as always girlssoccernetwork.com
52:14
or dot com or our instagram girls soccer network we love hearing from you we hope all is well Well,
52:21
guys, it's a big week coming up.
52:23
I got my third game, Domus Fonskin play.
52:27
We'll go in for that first win on a home opener. So super excited for that.
52:32
Jordan's going to go crush her final exams and then is cruising into her senior year of college.
52:39
So big stuff coming.
52:41
Truly cannot wait. And thank you for everything, guys. Thanks, guys.