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Episode 2: Reframing How We Talk About Food · Talking FACS

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  Music.
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  Big Blue Book Club presents SNACK Club with Courtney Luecking and Anna Cason,
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  featuring Raising a Happy, Healthy Eater and How to Raise a Mindful Eater. Now, here are our hosts.
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  Feeding children is an adventure, and at some point or another,
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  you might have had questions like, am I doing this right? Or is this normal?
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  Headlines, things we see online, things we hear from family and friends,
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  and even unpacking what we see in the store can have us questioning what to feed our children.
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  We want children to have what they need to lead happy, healthy lives.
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  And it seems like as soon as we figure something out, it changes.
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  That's where we come in. My name is Dr. Courtney Luecking. I'm a registered dietitian
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  and extension specialist for family and child nutrition.
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  This means I have lots of training and expertise about child nutrition.
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  I also have two littles of my own. This combination allows me to talk through
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  practical, science-based strategies for creating a nourishing feeding environment for your family.
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  And my name is Anna Cason. I'm a registered dietitian and extension associate in food and nutrition.
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  I don't have kids of my own, but my interests and passion lie in supporting
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  healthy food-related behaviors which begin in childhood.
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  In partnership with the University of Kentucky Cooperative Extension Service,
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  we present SNACK Club, where we share bite-sized bits of information for
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  Supporting Nourished, Active Children in Kentucky.
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  So come for the snacks and stay for the support.
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  Hi, Anna. Hello. How are you? Good. How are you? Doing well.
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  I'm so glad to be back again. Here we are. I'm excited.
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  Well, and a little nervous to talk about today's topic. Yes.
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  Reframing how we talk about food. Kind of a touchy subject. It can be.
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  And I think a real opportunity for growth for all of us. Yeah.
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  Yeah. I like the term opportunity.
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  Yeah. So, because we think about food, some of us maybe more than others all day.
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  What are we eating next? When when are we eating next? And so we're talking
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  about it in one way, shape, or form.
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  Yeah. And we may not be realizing how we talk about it.
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  Yes. And so the words we use, the tones that we use when we're talking about
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  food or around children, just around those eating experiences.
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  They have such a long-term impact.
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  Yeah. Well, in body language, I always think of if someone offers a food and
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  you shudder, you act like repulsed by it, then just like the way all things
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  that surround food, the way you mean to think about it has a big impact.
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  Yes. So let's get started right away talking about kind of the relationships
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  that we have with food, this healthy, I'm going to use air quotes when I say
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  healthy relationship with food.
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  What does that look like or what could that look like?
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  Yeah. So I think it's just like we talked about before, like healthy can be
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  subjective. It can be different for everyone.
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  And a healthy relationship with food can be different from person to person.
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  So a lot of times it just, you approach food in a way that's joyful and you
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  enjoy the experience of eating food, but it doesn't control your life by any means,
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  whether like over-controlling or forgetting about food.
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  Like just, it's there, we need it, but not stressed about it.
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  Yeah. I think you bring up some important points because as you were talking,
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  thinking about how people might be responding in their heads about this.
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  Well, gosh, thinking about eating stresses me out or I have a lot of rules or things around eating.
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  And I think that speaks or food is love. And so that speaks to the food culture
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  that we have in our country.
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  And I thought our books, both of our books actually touched on this terminology.
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  And so So just want to quick read what the definition, this idea of food culture,
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  we may not have thought about it this way before, but Marguerite Fletcher,
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  who is a dietitian, does a lot with mindful eating.
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  But one of her books, this complex relationship between food,
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  eating, and nourishment becomes a culture.
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  As families grow, this culture and common food choices feeds a way to become
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  a series of invisible habits.
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  Every family and childcare center has a food culture that is unique. me.
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  That just really resonated with me. So wanted to ask you what your food culture was like growing up.
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  It was, I mean, I would say typical, but I don't think I know otherwise, really.
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  It's just what I grew up with. It was normal. We typically did like family dinners
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  at night, especially when we were younger.
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  But then when we got older, schedules were busier. So it was harder and harder.
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  Some days we would go to my granddad's for dinner. It was just,
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  yeah. So kind of a rhythm and routine to what you.
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  Routine. In the mornings, we would do breakfast before school,
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  pack lunches, and then dinner together at night.
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  Yeah. And so it sounds like it was a pretty positive or maybe neutral experience and pleasant.
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  Yeah. Want to recognize that that may not be the case for many people who are listening.
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  And yeah, like how we grew up, it may have been a very lonely or unsure about
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  like, what are we going to eat for a meal or just a lot of rules and rigidity.
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  I'm thinking about like, can't get up from the table until you are finished
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  eating type of thing. Yeah, Clean Plate Club. Yes, yes.
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  And so that, I think, is a great example of what a food culture could be growing up.
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  And so Clean Plate Club, I think many of us have probably heard it before,
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  like, you can't get up till you eat all of this, or someone telling us you haven't had enough.
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  And so what are maybe some of the challenges, or let's use the word concerns,
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  when we're talking about language around food, and we're trying to tell a child
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  you haven't eaten enough yet, what are some of the concerns around that? Yeah.
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  So a lot of it has to do with like the outside influence of someone telling
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  them when they have had enough or when they haven't had enough versus listening
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  to their body's cues, their hunger and fullness cues.
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  So if they're satisfied with what they ate, they're not hungry anymore,
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  then their body will tell them that.
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  But if someone is telling them, no, you haven't had enough, you need to finish
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  whatever's on the plate, then that's conflicting for them because they're getting
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  one message from internally and then externally another message.
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  And so it really takes away from listening to their own hunger and fullness cues. Yeah.
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  And I think where that can become concerning, not only in the short term,
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  but the long term, I think of, I've chatted with many adults who are like,
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  that sticks in my mind. And so I might be out to eat and I see my plate.
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  And in the back of my mind, it's like, you haven't finished everything on your plate.
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  And so it carries over time, the ways that we're interacting with children around
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  food or talking about it. Well, absolutely. And once you...
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  Are older and you start buying your own groceries, then it becomes a concern
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  of, well, am I wasting food if I haven't finished what I'm eating and essentially throwing away money?
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  I mean, it's just a whole nother aspect of it.
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  Yeah. I hadn't really thought about that before. It's just like the intensity,
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  seemingly small things that we say.
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  And so this is like, oh my gosh, as a person who cares for young people, that's stressful.
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  Like what should I do differently, you know? And I think this is where,
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  because some of the nutrition information we talk about, like what to feed children
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  to support growth hasn't changed a whole lot over time.
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  But the language, the research around that continues to evolve.
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  So I think first, taking a step back, giving ourselves some grace.
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  This is, I know an area that I'm continuing to work in thinking about things
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  that were said to me growing up. My parents were doing the best they could.
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  It's I hold nothing against them and recognizing that like when you want to
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  do differently sometimes.
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  And we now have some guidance as to what can be said and when it can be said.
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  So just again, giving yourself grace and just realizing, okay,
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  now there are some things that I can think about.
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  Yeah. So let's first start talking
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  about some opportunities of when we are talking to children about food.
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  Obviously we can think of meal time or snack time.
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  So when we're sitting down to eat and the language we're using around that.
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  So the clean plate cub, we talked about that. So instead of saying you haven't
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  had enough to eat or you need to clean your plate, what might be an idea that
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  we could say differently that is more neutral?
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  Yeah. So instead of telling them when they have or hadn't had enough,
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  phrasing it as a question, have you had enough? Are you still hungry?
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  Are you feeling satisfied? And really letting them kind of check in with how
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  they're feeling after their meal or snack and telling you.
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  That's a place to start. Yeah. And not hopefully too challenging.
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  Might have to like pause and catch ourselves and that's okay.
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  Yeah. And letting our children know that we're trying to do things differently.
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  I think letting them see that human factor of like, oh, I mean,
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  whoops, let me ask you, have you had enough to eat yet? I like that.
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  Okay. So mealtimes, when are some other opportunities in day-to-day or weekly
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  that we could interact with children around food?
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  Well, I think about the media influence, whether it's billboards when you're
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  driving down the road or commercials on TV or walking around the grocery store.
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  And it seems like all the tasty treats are at perfect eye level for little hands to grab.
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  So just recognizing it and having a conversation about it.
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  Yes. Sometimes I've been at the grocery with my kids and I also look in the
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  cart and there's something extra in there. I'm like, wait a second.
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  So a great conversation about, and we've noticed ads more because we've had
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  more screen time, but I think the Raising a Happy Healthy Eater book,
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  they go into this a little bit more talking about food advertising and that
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  even as young as preschool, children are.
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  Consuming multiple food ads a day.
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  And usually it's not advertisements for like broccoli or or almonds or something, eggs even.
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  And so helping have those conversations. So again, thinking about how can we
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  put a more positive or even neutral, not everything is rainbows and sunshine,
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  but just a more neutral, helping children recognize what is happening.
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  Those media influences, they are trying to sell you something and then use that
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  as a way to talk about whether or how you incorporate those foods in your home.
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  This is not a food that we eat in And our house. Yeah. Kind of end of story. Yeah.
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  Or, you know, oh, gosh, that does look yummy.
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  And then maybe saying that might be something we could add as a treat one day
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  or something like that. We could have it later. But right now we have. Yeah.
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  Tips for one church now yeah i always
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  like to think about grocery shopping too as a way or if it's
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  not grocery shopping however you're getting food or wherever you're getting
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  food bringing children along i know that
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  sounds great in theory so i'm not saying you have to do it all the time but
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  they can learn a lot so the youngest can learn recognition like matching names
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  to things that they are and as children get older they can start to have a more
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  active role and And then kind of with that invisible, like these invisible habits remain,
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  kind of what kinds of foods are selected at the store.
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  How they explain to children like why that we choose these foods or why maybe
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  we don't choose other foods.
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  And that could be cost or if you're getting local foods, it could be to support your neighbors.
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  So maybe it's based on taste or maybe it's to help them pick something new.
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  But all of those are experiential, hands-on ways that we can get children.
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  We can talk about food with children that are maybe outside this potentially
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  stressful meal times where you're wanting them to eat.
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  Yeah. Well, and like you mentioned, those habits will carry on forward for when
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  they're older and then they can do the same thing with their littles.
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  Yeah. What about gardening?
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  What are some ways we could use gardening as a way to talk about food?
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  Yeah. So really it provides the opportunity for kids to see where some foods come from,
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  like from the very beginning and the opportunity to watch these foods grow and
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  have an active role in caring for foods that they will eventually eat one day
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  creates this excitement about
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  the whole learning process of seeing this food come up from the ground.
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  Okay. So we've talked about a couple everyday scenarios when we can talk about food.
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  Let's do a little bit more about how, like what to say, because I think sometimes
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  this is the most challenging.
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  And so I think one One tip I like to always remind myself is to keep it objective,
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  not kind of this good or bad morality.
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  And I know you and I have talked about this before. So I'm going to let you
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  kind of talk about what we mean when we say that morality around food.
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  So really, when we think about it, culture, we as a culture have deemed foods good or bad.
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  And essentially, there is no good food and bad food. But depending on what the
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  food provides us or doesn't provide us, we just have declared foods as good
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  foods, like good for you foods or bad for you foods.
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  When really, I mean, all foods can be good foods and there are no bad foods.
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  Foods are going to provide you with something in the very least.
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  So really taking a step back and not saying, like, for example,
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  if we're eating spinach,
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  instead of saying, eat your spinach because it's good for you,
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  but explaining why or talking about the texture or the color or just identifying
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  it in a way that depending on the age of your child, they can connect with it.
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  So providing some background versus...
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  The morality of it. Yes, you brought up so many good points there.
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  So just want to kind of explore them a little bit more this developmentally appropriate.
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  Children, again, as young as preschool age are able to start learning about
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  what foods do in their body.
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  But knowledge does not translate to behavior. So it's easy for children to categorize, right?
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  And as children get older, they start to have a greater understanding of more complex things.
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  So you What's orange helps us see for a preschooler might be,
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  oh, this carrot has vitamin A and getting kind of more detailed as we go.
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  But so being developmentally appropriate when we talk about those things.
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  But you hit on the more objective things like the healthy, unhealthy isn't going
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  to sell a kid to eat something.
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  Or an adult taste is really where it's at. So I think highlighting the taste,
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  can you link it to something children are more familiar with?
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  Or if you're, this is a strawberry, it is sweet.
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  It's red. It's bumpy. It's just to prepare them for what they're about to eat
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  and creating some excitement around it. Like, oh, this is sweet. It's yummy. Yes.
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  So adventurous, also familiarity. All children are different.
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  Some won't hesitate to try something new and some will.
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  And so that makes me think about picky eating.
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  So maybe let's go there. Let's talk about this term, picky eating,
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  and then we can circle back with kind of the how we talk about foods.
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  So I love in Raising a Healthy, Happy Eater, they have this analogy comparing
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  picky eating to like learning to read. eat.
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  Yes. Yes. I love that. Parts of the book. So they, just to summarize,
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  they essentially say you wouldn't label your child as a bad reader.
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  If they're first learning to read and they're struggling, you wouldn't put it out there.
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  So why do we do that with picky eating?
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  Essentially, it's setting them up to, or connecting them with this label and then potentially.
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  Leaving them to just accept this and then use that moving forward as a reason
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  for not trying new foods or as a reason for their hesitancy with foods or something
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  versus rephrasing it in a different way.
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  Yes. And so kind of like growing into what they're told they are.
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  And I think the raising a healthy, happy eater does a nice job of saying we're a learning eater.
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  We're an exploring boring eater, my taste buds may not like it yet,
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  or my taste buds still need more practice instead of like, oh,
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  picky eating, or you're such a bad eater.
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  Again, I'm using air quotes. I've heard that a lot.
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  And so again, we don't want to set children up to fulfill those because it's our role.
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  We're all still learning. Children haven't been exposed to a lot of things and
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  they can't learn to like them if we don't support them in that endeavor. Yeah, absolutely.
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  Okay. So instead Instead of picky eating, we can talk about learning eaters
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  or exploring eaters, things like that.
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  We've talked about being objective, maybe using our senses. That's a good guide
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  of how to be more objective about food.
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  I think the real challenge here is like, we want to support children in eating
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  nutritious foods and are the types of foods that are readily available or acceptable
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  sometimes or oftentimes aren't a match with that.
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  And so wanting to support or encourage without being too pushy,
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  there's kind of this fine line.
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  And so one more thing I could think about is helping children link how they
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  feel when they eat certain foods.
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  If you're like, oh, well, if they want to eat a lot more of something,
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  like, well, remember the last time you ate that and how you felt.
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  Or like I think about children who are being active and maybe they're wanting
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  a snack before or after an activity.
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  So kind of telling them, oh, let's try some cheese and crackers.
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  That will give you some energy and help keep you fueled as you practice or play your game or something.
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  So providing that reasoning in ways that they can, as you mentioned earlier,
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  developmentally understand.
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  Yeah, and in a way that they can connect with it and link it.
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  So essentially saying, These foods will fuel you to be strong for practice,
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  whatever it may be. I love that.
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  One more thing, because we kind of talked about this could be a tough topic,
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  right? Things we've talked about so far are,
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  not maybe a less challenging, but under the surface, it might be our experiences
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  with food or even body image because food in our society is so closely linked with body image.
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  I don't think we can get away talking about this topic of reframing how we talk
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  about food without acknowledging that.
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  And so just wanted to hear your thoughts on, yeah, like the personal relationships
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  that we have with food and how we can approach that in a more positive way.
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  Yeah. So I know a lot of it depends on how you were raised or the people that
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  you are surrounded by, how they talk about food.
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  A lot of times we just absorb that and then either project it back out or just
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  internally absorb that.
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  And so kids are the same way. They can, even if you're not intentionally saying
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  it directly to them, they can hear these things and absorb it.
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  So really, like we talked about the food morality piece and not labeling foods
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  good or bad, not only for your child because they're hearing it,
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  but also internally whenever we can kind of flip this switch and recognize that
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  all foods provide some source of fuel.
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  So just recognizing that and not putting any sort of stigma or shame with foods around it.
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  Yeah. And pleasure, right? I think that's where a lot of the guilt or shame
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  comes into play is that we feel pleasure about foods that have been labeled
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  as quote unquote unhealthy or bad or things of that nature.
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  And so we'll in future episodes kind of talk about how to fit all of those foods together.
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  But I really appreciate your perspective on that.
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  And I think one of the things mentioned in the How to Raise a Mindful Eater
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  that was really helpful was when they were talking about body appreciation.
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  Because children are at such moldable, shapeable, vulnerable periods as they grow.
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  So I'm specifically thinking of adolescents and the people we've heard of who
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  have expressed to us the concerns they have with adolescents and how do we talk
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  about food and how do we promote a positive body image.
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  And Tracy Tilka in here, the quote is that holding favorable opinions toward
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  the body, regardless of its appearance, accepting the body along with its deviations
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  from societal beauty ideals,
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  respecting the body by attending to its needs and engaging aging,
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  and healthy behaviors, and protecting the body by rejecting unrealistic media appearance ideals.
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  Body appreciation is about having a deep and respectful relationship with your body.
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  And I don't know that that many of us have reached that point,
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  or if we have, it probably has been a little bit later in life and maybe not earlier. Yeah.
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  Yes. I think that's something that everyone can work on, whether you think you
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  have reached that point. Right.
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  Still working towards that and expressing it so that others around you can hear that way.
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  And then also starting at a young age and supporting young boys and girls so
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  that they appreciate their body for all that it does, regardless of how it looks.
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  Absolutely. Focusing on capabilities. And you can link that with food.
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  Again, like we talked about, this is how this food will support what your body can do.
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  And again, pushing back. We talked about this with food advertising,
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  but helping just having honest conversations about, you know,
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  either things that we're working through or just what we notice in society, that messaging.
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  I think that's a way that we can start to really make ripple effects of changes
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  in the ways that we talk about food. Yeah, absolutely.
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  And How to Raise a Mindful Eater, they talk about having a conversation about
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  it, not making the conversation strictly about weight or specifically about food,
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  but also not ignoring the topic completely and just having a conversation that
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  everyone looks different.
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  And that's okay. That's a beautiful thing. And I think letting people know,
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  getting others on board, because it can feel like a lonely task when you're
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  trying to pull the boulder uphill, so to speak.
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  And so family, friends, if people have similar ideas for you, great.
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  If not, letting them know. Oh, and I just think of an example in our family.
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  Somewhat recently, a comment was made about a body size or just clothes the way they fit.
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  And my daughter was standing around and I just said, you know,
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  we're really focused on accepting bodies and celebrating them for all shapes and sizes.
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  And so I helped reframe like you didn't like how the shirt fit you rather than
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  like, you know, a more negative comment about one's own body.
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  Let's make it about the shirt, our bodies, our bodies. And so that's one example.
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  It felt tough, but I felt really proud in that moment because my daughter actually
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  made eye contact with me.
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  So it was like, okay, she's been hearing me and I was able to show her in action
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  how we can do that. Yeah, that's beautiful.
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  Okay. So I think we've been talking long enough. So maybe let's just quick summarize.
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  We're talking about more positive ways.
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  And again, it doesn't have to be like smiley faces.
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  Neutrality is a more positive way than the negative framing we say,
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  where this is going to kill you, or it's going to cause all these issues.
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  And so reframing and what foods can do for our bodies, helping children link that.
• 23:26
  And some of those great opportunities for doing that include
• 23:29
  a grocery store when you're at the farmer's
• 23:32
  market or your local market wherever you are getting food and providing
• 23:36
  that education without it feeling like education and again talking about food
• 23:41
  in different ways engaging our senses and then as they get older linking to
• 23:45
  the different body functions or whatever that connection piece may be for them
• 23:50
  but providing that education and when you're shopping for food in the garden
• 23:54
  if you have that opportunity
• 23:56
  and with that advertising whenever it's all around us.
• 23:59
  Yeah. And then just keeping it objective, not making it about us as the adults.
• 24:04
  So I think our challenge for those moving forward and I'm with you,
• 24:08
  with everyone on this as well, is thinking about what kind of food culture we
• 24:12
  want for the children that we're caring for and ourselves.
• 24:15
  And this is a real opportunity to make some small but impactful changes.
• 24:20
  Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
• 24:22
  Great. So if you want resources or additional links, we've got those in our
• 24:26
  show notes to help guide you through making some of those changes in your life
• 24:30
  or connecting with your local extension office for more opportunities for hands-on practice. Yeah.
• 24:35
  Thanks for listening. Yeah. Thank you. We'll hope you see you or we hope you'll join us again.
• 24:40
  Thanks for joining us for another episode of SNACK Club. Resources related to
• 24:44
  the topics discussed in this episode can be found on our website linked in the show notes.
• 24:48
  Your local Cooperative Extension office is also a wealth of information and
• 24:53
  can provide links to local resources.
• 24:55
  If you have other topics you would like to hear about, send us a note at snackclub@uky.edu.
• 25:02
  That's S-N-A-C-K-C-L-U-B@uky.edu.
• 25:08
  And as a reminder, the digestible bits of information we share are like navigation
• 25:13
  signs for your feeding journey, but you may need to contact a healthcare provider
• 25:17
  for more personal advice.
• 25:18
  And last but not least, special thanks to our team behind the scenes.
• 25:22
  Mindy McCulley for bringing this audio and video file to life with her technology
• 25:26
  skills and to the people through her marketing magic.
• 25:29
  And to Kelli Thompson for her creative ability to turn one conversation into
• 25:33
  our SNACK Club symbol. We hope to see you again soon.