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E35 Is it Time to Hire with Dan Lewis · Stronger Business Together

• Granger Forson: So this is the Stronger Business Together podcast where business owners learn from other owners. No theory, no gurus, just real journeys and overcoming real hurdles. Today I'm joined by Dan Lewis who runs Free Agent 24-7 and like every owner he's in that middle of building things, fixing things and growing something that really matters to him. So Dan, welcome. Dan: Thank you for having me Granger, much appreciated, really excited to chat to you and yeah, stronger business together. Let's do it, let's go. Granger Forson: Excellent. Right, so let's go on to act one the business. So in plain English, Dan, what does your business do? Dan: in plain English Christ estate agents talking in plain English. We'll give it a go Free agent 247 is a unique homegrown estate agency that pioneered selling your home for free So we are estate agents if you haven't already gathered from that lovely elevator pitch We pioneered selling your home for free which doesn't mean we're gonna actually sell your property for free. The fees are free on one of our options. have three options, excuse me, two, four, seven, whereby our vendors can instruct us to ask for the fee from the buyer, which is option two. We call that our classic model, because that's how we set the business up with our USP at the time. Number four is our traditional model, which we call Switch. which is where the vendor chooses to pay the fee themselves, which is the traditional way in the UK, sort of a estate agency. And then because my USP of the bias fee kind of got copied and imitated in lots of different ways, shapes or form, locally, regionally and nationally, I wanted to kind of get another USP back, which we brought out. our split option, which is what we call seven around the numbers two, four, seven. At the start of this year, all those many months back, 2026, which is where the vendor and the buyer split the fee equally upon completion only. So those are our kind of fee model and structures in a nutshell. Granger Forson: Wow, okay. So an estate agent's with a difference. Dan: Yes. Granger Forson: Are you local? Are you Dan: Yes Granger Forson: national? Who do you love helping? Dan: Very good question. So I'm Worcester Worcestershire born and bred. Our target and core market remains Worcester in the WR postcodes. We have developed and grown and shrunk and grown again over time about eight years now of operations. So we have acted for clients. across five, six counties into London as far as Manchester. What I have done more recently with the business is try to be more focused in terms of geographical locations actually where we do put a particular emphasis on Worcester, W.R. postcodes. We have a team and an agent that also operates in Malvern, which is also actually a W.R. postcode, but it's a sort of adjacent town to Worcester. And actually we're just in the process of setting up a sort of new area if you like, which is Cheltenham, which isn't quite the WR postcode, so it gives us another sort wing of geographical movement from Worcester down into Malvern and then into Cheltenham. So those are our three core target areas as it stands and we'll be moving forwards. Granger Forson: Excellent. Exciting. So when did the business start? What was that original spark? Dan: okay, the original Spark, excuse me, was so, so the original Spark stems back to a 13 straight 14 year old dad at high school being asked what to what they wanted to do. I kind of grown up in and around. My uncle was a builder and was building properties. And I think that that with the combination of watching MTV Cribs. back at the time, which was very big for those 90s kids or anyone that 90s adults, so should now say, know, they're now watching. That sort of gave me the sort of... aspirations and inspirations, I should say, for property. And I got into a estate agency at 16. I was skiving college to work in a estate agency. It become all I ever wanted to do. It's all I've then ever done for my whole now almost 20 years of career. And it's all I ever want to do as well. So I'm super grateful that around eight years ago now, back in 2018, I wouldn't say I had the opportunity, but I took the leap of faith, let's say, and jumped from the job of what I was working in. So I worked for two firms, had a little bit of experience locally, regionally, and then nationally. I kind of wanted to get those things on my CV, just to maybe say that one day on a podcast, who knows? But yeah, and then also, yeah, Granger Forson: Ha ha ha. Dan: I took that leap of faith, very, very small budget. £6,000, left the job, kind of, as I say, wanted to do things different as we've touched upon. That's our company ethos, it's different by design. Hence we come up with the USP. And yeah, that was back in 2018. So super grateful that eight years later, we've had, you know, good success. And yeah, just forever privileged to have every opportunity that we do get. Granger Forson: Fantastic, fantastic. I really like that. growing up in the 90s, I actually started work in the 90s myself. So a little bit older than that, but also. Dan: We're all getting older, aren't we? Every day. That's the one certainty. Granger Forson: Absolutely. So what does the business look like today in terms of shape and size? Dan: Shape and size. So we'll start with probably size. So there's what we call like a bit of a HQ operation, which is our headquarters, which is where we've got mainly employed stroke part and parts out part, what's the first word part time staff is what I'm trying to think that we have like a bit of a HQ structure, okay, which kind of serves the business. So on a day to day basis, there's myself, Chanel. Julia, trying to think who else we've got, Natasha, sales progression, social media, videographer, photographer, kind of involved on that day-to-day basis. We then have a couple of viewing representatives, and they act as like the main hub of the business, the HQ. We then have, because we're kind of, I suppose, a hybrid model, we then have three, as I've touched upon, or may have not touched upon, we have three. self-employed agents that operate in our areas of focus. So we have one in Worcester, one in Malvern, and then one in Cheltenham. And they're obviously supported by myself and then the wider HQ structure, which wraps around and sort of pulls from each other from there. And that's how we kind of set up and structured for self-employed versus the employed structure of our HQ, which also is its own entity. So HQ is also... works as an estate agency alongside the self-employed agents. And that's where we've arrived at following the last couple of years. had to, very sadly a couple of years ago, my business partner actually passed away. So I had to do a lot of restructuring off the back of that, which as you can imagine was just not an overnight fix. And that took time. Granger Forson: Mm. Dan: to sort of decompress, heal, and we're forever healing, so it won't be the same. But sort of the show must go on, as he would say. Granger Forson: yeah, that's sad to hear, but great that you've picked up and moved on and as you say, the show must go on. So why do customers then pick you as an estate agent over anybody else? Dan: the golden, golden question, Granger. Golden question. Why did I pick Freeagent? I think a lot of estate agency still comes down to human connection is my number one answer there, okay? I think you can have the most beautiful offering. the cheap, whatever the best for you, it doesn't matter, you know, but if somebody doesn't buy into you and they don't wanna work with you for whatever reason, they're not happy, they're not comfortable, they don't like the contract, they don't like your photos, it probably doesn't matter that much because they need to want to work with you, actually. And I think that's probably what free agent has taught me. more than anything over the last eight years because of the free offering of what we do. We literally give everything for nothing. It's totally my risk and we can then sell the house for free if that makes sense. The vendor would not pay anything and they still might not use us and it therefore proves that point that whatever challenge they've got in their head as to why they didn't want to use us, it's probably just because they just didn't want to use us for whatever reason. And over my 19 stroke 20 years of being an estate agent now, you know, I've learned that I am not going to be for everyone. So is my team. My team aren't going to be for everyone. We have a lot of different characters purposefully by design, in a lovely way across different age ranges, different types of people, because I know that whilst I'm not going to be everyone, might not be for everyone. Julia might not be for everyone, but they'll have their people is what I always say. And that's what I always say to my people, my team, is Don't worry about the ones that you don't get. The ones that you do get, they're your people, so put 100 % of your energy into them and that will manifest and attract. the right people for you moving on with, whether that's the target areas of what we're trying to work with or the target kind of what we're trying to work with. That's why I say go in all in on them. That's important. Okay. The ones that didn't want to use us for whatever reason, it doesn't really matter actually, you know, let them go, let them be, let's focus on our people. And that's, that's something which I think hopefully you can tell by my passionate answer there. I'm just really, really, really passionate about. So There you are. Granger Forson: Fantastic. that's that's that's brilliant. I love that because I totally agree with that. You people buy from people. We have to build that know, like and trust before people will buy from us. And some people will not get on with other people. There are always different structures, you know, within team building and team understanding with my clients. I use a thing called a disc profile, you know, and there are four different Dan: Yes. Granger Forson: flavors across that disc profile. And, you know, realise that actually maybe I don't like that person not because I didn't like that person but actually they're completely opposite to me on the circle of the disk so actually I will naturally don't agree with them because they approach things differently to me so it's a natural thing that we have in anything so what you've explained is just actually exactly that you know when we are when we're buying something it's important to have that good gut feeling that of that trust with that person even though and we have that different structures at times when maybe I don't. it's nothing personal it's just how we feel. So Dan: Exactly. Granger Forson: fantastic. So to build a business you need to generate leads. So how do you go about generating leads for your business? Dan: Very good question again, these are cracking business questions aren't they? Love them. So lead generation. Actually what I'm gonna, I'm actually gonna go back to what I was previously saying. I think that a lot of what I've done has always been around focusing on what we've already got actually, that focus on current clients, okay? It's something that... I've always pride myself in the energy of what we put into our current clients because I know that if we give them everything, even if we're not successful in achieving the result, if I've genuinely hand on heart, which our whole structure and our set operation is about achieving the result, we've done everything we can in the time we were given at the price we were at. etc. If that house hasn't sold, then it was maybe a question of timing stroke price stroke circumstances because every house does go in south eventually. So when it comes to lead generation, to come back to the question is if we focus on the clients that we've already got, they should go and tell somebody else if we're if they're happy with us. or they're pleased with our service or we have got the result. I actually spoke to a client today, for example, we haven't sold their property. I'm totally conscious of that. I know both parties, it's a little bit of a sticky situation, shall we say. I know both parties in this transaction and they're kind of not bothered the house isn't selling from one side, the other party is a little bit. And I said, look, for me, actually it refrains on me personally in my business because I want to get the result but they've kind of said look whilst you're not quite getting the result then we're still super pleased with everything you're doing we're still referring to you left right and centre because of the amount of energy and time and expense of what you're putting into it whilst I haven't actually got a result that was really nice to hear actually and it kind of proves my point right about right okay this is what we're doing for our, look after what you've got. It's something I've always said. I think it comes from my mother that does. She used to always say to me, Dan, look after what you've got. You you've got a pair of school shoes, whatever it might be, look after them because they'll serve you well in time. So yeah, it must come from that. Thank Granger Forson: Brilliant. what fantastic advice to start off in life. And I totally agree. Your current customers are actually some of the best referral people that bring in leads. And if you treat them well, if you treat them, you know, with high, I always talk about the quality of service with my background in manufacturing. You know, if you focus on quality and actually getting it right, delivering it amazing, building those wow moments, then actually people remember that and are more likely to refer you because, know, we all go asking, don't we? Do you know an estate agent, you you ask people when they've sold the house, do you know who did you use? I use so and so I use Dan many years ago and they're amazing. And it's actually that. that actually triggers that memory. it's those wow moments. Fantastic. So let's move on to act two now, the journey of how you became the business owner. So running a business, there are highs, there are lows, are things, there are times when things get hard, you know, and you've specifically, you know, gone through a really difficult patch with, you know, with your business partner passing away. So what did you learn about yourself and your business in those really difficult times? Dan: with a very deep question. I think the answer I'm gonna give here Granger is probably in a nutshell I can do it. Like I always felt that maybe I needed something else or I wasn't good enough or there was something else that I was missing in the puzzle, my puzzle as a business owner, which I think comes back to what's the phrase it's still, I've just gone blank when imposter syndrome, right? throughout my Granger Forson: Yeah. Dan: years. Yeah, I think that's something which coming where I come from to starting with the little amount of money that I did to compete with very well established brands, brands with massive budgets, et cetera, et cetera. I've just never quite, I've had to fight for everything and it's something again, my mother brought me a mug years ago. Success doesn't come to you, you go to it. And I think that fight. I think it's so important. You have to keep going. Just keep going. Stay positive. Keep going. It's an industry, particularly a estate agency, where you just have to be persistent and you have to keep going. And I think as long as you're doing those things, then opportunities will come, you know, and you will get results. know, Granger Forson: Yeah. Dan: it's somebody always compared it to like a football match to me as well. They're in a estate, you're always going to lose, you're always going to lose one, you know, you just, that's just an inevitable, you know, like in most business, you're not going to please everyone. So you might, you know, you're going to let a goal in that just make sure you're going to score too. So you have to stay on that attack. It's my analogy there for you if that helps. Granger Forson: Yeah, no, that's Dan: You Granger Forson: fantastic. I totally agree. People often talk about luck. Actually lucky people are people that do the most work. Whatever that luck in action is. I remember Steve Davis, the snooker player. They would call him Lucky Davis. And he used to say, the strangest thing was the more I practiced, the luckier I got. So yeah, absolutely. Yeah, you just keep going and make it happen. So any decision that you've made that's changed the trajectory of the business, either for good or for bad? Dan: Deep, deep questions, Granger, lovely questions. Any decision that I've changed? So obviously over the years of being in business, we've had to start in 2018, a bit of a crash course backwards, make lots of decisions as we do on a daily basis and moving forward. We had the particular COVID years, of course, in that spell, whereby had to make lots of decisions. you know, triggered off the back of an overnight event of, you know, prime minister going, can't go out your houses, you know, literally lost half the business of what we'd worked two years for overnight. I stripped the business back at that point to startup mode. was doing night shifts in Tesco to sort of just keep myself at bay and kind of, cause we didn't know how long it was going to last. We didn't know what was going to happen. So much uncertainty. went what I call startup mode, which positively negatively over that period of time just managed to hang on in there. And I can remember I was calling clients, you off the back of the news and go, look, hang on in there. It's going to be fine. We're going to be all right. And actually a lot of people, for want of a better word, know, didn't take it the right way when I was being positive down going, look guys, we can work through this. Let's keep it together. Let's make it happen. They were like, it's literally a global pandemic. Dan, don't think you're quite kind of, does that make sense? It hasn't really, it isn't really, this is quite serious. Granger Forson: Yeah. Dan: I was like, okay, maybe I'd need to Granger Forson: Yeah. Dan: think about my, but I didn't know. Again, I'm learning every day. didn't know how serious an impact that would have on people's livelihoods, et cetera. I just obviously went selfish mode. And first of all, how can I protect? my sales as good as possible of what I've worked two years to build up a bit of a pipeline, just when we started to get some traction, you know, and I just felt, God, you know, that was it. So of course you fought for the business. Then I made obviously a lot of quick decisions to strip everything back, do the night shifts. But of course what happened over that period of time, back into June, July, 2020, Was it 2020? Yeah, 2020. If I remember correctly off the back of it. Granger Forson: Yep, yeah, when it first started. Dan: Yeah, it exploded. Obviously the industry then just went absolutely crazy. So I can remember I was in Tesco at 3, 4 a.m. sneaking off to the toilet, messaging things, hi. Then I kind of went to taking on people for my own business when I was doing these night shifts. I was like, wait, hang on a minute. What am I doing? So I had to sort of recall everything from there and kind of then go forward. So yeah, that was a very interesting time of, know, highs, lows and everything off the back of that. As we touched upon as well, you know, having somebody pass away within your business who was a, you know, a major role within the company is not something you plan for. And there were, it's a very long, deep story, that one. But yeah, I had to sort of deal with. being the executor of Will as well in a very complex family situation whilst trying to run a business whilst not really knowing how that was going to look for me as well was very difficult for a period of time and I've become actually seriously ill with shingles off the back of that. you know it's again Granger Forson: Wow. Dan: learning about oneself constantly, the stress levels, the Granger Forson: Yeah. Dan: positions that you're put in that you don't sign up for. That's what I was, well, I didn't want to deal with this. And of course, you actually do as a business Granger Forson: Yeah. Dan: owner. That's kind of what I've learned that, well, I don't want to be quite. doing the night shift in Tesco and COVID, the dealing with somebody who's a pivotal role in my business's situation there following passing, that's inadvertently is actually what I've signed up for as a business owner. So whilst I didn't want Granger Forson: It is. Dan: those things, of course, I've had to learn about myself really quickly off the back of those. And then also know that the... things of what I've dealt with, I've dealt with them and I'm still here and I'm still going. So I also take a lot of energy and positivity and also a little bit of robustness for want of a better word to go well I've done all of that and I've dealt with these really hard situations, really difficult things like Bring it on again, isn't it? What's next? What's the next challenge? And it's going to you that way, is what I'd say as well. Granger Forson: Well done. I agree. Nobody really understands what being a business owner is like without being a business owner. There are so many different things, different curveballs that come at us and ultimately we still have the business to run, we still have people's salaries to pay for, we still have the overheads to keep going, otherwise well, we'll just shut down the business and go and work for somebody else. We have to put up with all of that and find that resolve in us to drive forwards and make it happen because we have the belief that on the other side of those difficulties... are the solutions, are what we're going to achieve and what we want to do and you've just demonstrated that through a fantastic story. Thank you so much for that amazing chair Dan. people, people you've talked about recruiting and taking people on, the stronger business together, we believe in growing your people so they grow your business. What have you learned about growing people that maybe you'd wished earlier on in your career? Dan: I think, so I'm gonna answer this in with my industry hat on specific to Free Agent and the business here. I think actually, Some of the best people I've taken on have not been from an estate agency background, which I find really interesting. So in terms of growing people and having people come into the business, naturally I've always felt, and I still actually feel this way, think, I want somebody that's got experience in a estate agency that understands the industry, that knows the highs, lows, the constant roller coaster on a daily basis. You can be the best estate agent in the world one second. to one client because you've just exchanged and you've solved their house and you're brilliant. You're the best swing since I spent. And the next call or the next email is somebody that's not using you, that's not happy because they haven't got a viewing on their house. And to deal with those levels is quite a unique thing on a daily basis. You have to be built a certain way, is what I would say. The people that I've had from an estate agency background actually, And we've got some fantastic people and some fantastic agents of what I've had working with us and worked with us. But actually really interestingly, some of the best have been from not in the industry. And I think there's maybe a level of naivety. It's I've said there actually that they don't, they're fresh to it. So they are, know, this is all fun and everything. And then they do get to learn over time. know, a estate agency is not easy. It's not selling sunset. There are a lot of moving parts all the time of what you can't control. You can't control people, you know, we can advise and we can guide and we can, you know, say this is what we think. But ultimately it's their instruction and we have to go with that. yeah, so I think. mixture of that in terms of our business from having people that experience versus people that are totally fresh to the industry is how I've tried to jallot together in terms of the personnel to move it forward. Also having people that you can really use the word earlier, Granger Trust, I think is something really, really massively important. We're adult, how we operate is adult. We ask people once they get on with it. and you also let them be as well and give them that freedom as part of the free agent spirit in terms of particularly the self-employed agents of what we've got and the employed people you know we all operate with an air of freedom because that's important. Granger Forson: Yeah, yeah, excellent. No, I agree. You know, we don't always find people within our industry, but we actually find the right people and we find those people that can achieve what we want to achieve. And often we call those the A players. It's Dan: again. Granger Forson: interesting where A players sometimes come from. So, you you're building a team, you're getting together. We call them habits, these things that we have to do in our business to keep the team stronger together. What's the sort of habits, what things do you have in place that keep your team strong? Dan: I think that's a bit of structure, so habits, structure, coms, he comes out, you know, I have, and I'm forever analyzing this to the point we've changed it a few weeks ago, bit of like a weekly monthly structure whereby, know, there's sort of, know, we have like focus days, focus areas to cry and try and create those habits of right, you know, in a estate agency, I would say there's kind of three main pillars, which is your new business, which you should be focusing on. particularly as a self-employed agent, I do it as well on behalf of the HQ, on behalf of the business. And then also on the market, as we've touched on, looking after what you've got, then you have your sales pipeline, which Tasha looks after. So within that, we have like a company structure on a weekly, monthly, quarterly basis that we try and create those consistencies, the habits of, it's... it's Tuesday, let's check the sales. Okay, it's Wednesday, let's check all of our on the market stock. Okay, so as I say, what's going on with new business, you know, and creating that sort of structure template, as I always say, it's not, you regimental, but it's there to try and create and train those habits for people to bring into their day to day structure to then obviously optimize results and yeah, footfall through. whether it's a self-employed agent and their own business streams or something on behalf of the business itself. Yeah, and that consistency Granger Forson: Yeah. Dan: there as well. Granger Forson: Brilliant. Yeah, no. And that's really important building that that that structure of consistency. We're all creatures of habits. We understand these things that we need to do. at The Stronger Business Together, there's just the two of us. We run the business together. We live together. And we get together every single day. We have a thing called a huddle. It's only seven to eight minutes long. It's very short. But interestingly, we both miss the huddle. If, for instance, I need to go out early and go to a networking event and I don't get back till after lunch, we miss that huddle. because it just brings that alignment even though we live together and work together it just brings that alignment around the work the challenges the things that need to get done we then have a weekly meeting which is longer and we have a monthly review as well because it's important to reflect and learn and grow as you're going through so yeah building that structure as you put it is really important. Fantastic well let's move on to act three the hurdle so what have you brought us the hurdle for us to have a conversation about today? Dan: Hurdle is the growing pain classic of hiring, taking on more staff versus when to, when's the right time. Particularly at the moment, over the last couple of years, market's been pretty steady. It's not as bad as people make it, that's for sure. But it's also not fantastic as it was off the back of those COVID years, we say. hence we've sort of grown shrunken and sort of kind of trying to go back out again, as I say, off the passing of team member as well a couple of years ago where we've had to restructure. it's, you know, we're looking a little bit deeper into this, which is why we what we've been trying to do over the last five, 18 months. and go, well, where do we want to be in five, 10 years? You what's the ends look like for us? Is there an ends? You know, I've always said, I want to keep going forever. It's my personal attitude, which makes it quite difficult on the flip of that because, you know, I'm not planning for exits. I love what I do. Granger Forson: Yeah. Okay. Dan: It's my world, but does that make sense? So it's also then, yeah, tripping it back. Granger Forson: Yeah, perfect. Yeah, absolutely. So it's about when do we hire? When's the right time to hire? What's the structure of hiring and making those decisions and working that through? I can tell you now there is no perfect right answer. I've worked in very large businesses. We have the same conversation yet we've got a huge amount of cash behind us. But let's first of all think about what we need to do. So today what goes through your head? Or do you write it down? I don't know. But what goes through your head when you start thinking about, okay we need to hire a new person. So what's the why that's going through your head? What are you considering? Dan: the, work clothing jobs of what they're specifically going to do, which will make our current team stroke myself. This is role on a day to day basis, freer potentially to look at the business and look at sort of, again, pushing it forward. So, and I think that's where. That's where we come back to as I've touched on, have the hybrid structure. We do have self-employed agents. We've got somebody joining us full time in September. That's launching a new area. We have had two or three conversations with other people looking at doing similar things whereby that's Granger Forson: Okay. Dan: kind of with them to come to us, if that makes sense. Because we're carrying on with our. Granger Forson: Yes, so agents... So there's two types of people that you're thinking about. Your Dan: Yeah. Granger Forson: agents are people that are... walking the beat. They're out there, they're meeting clients, they're trying to drive the sale opportunity, they're then doing the follow-up, they're doing the hand holding etc and making that success for your client. And then you've got the other type of person which is your sort of you call them the HQ, the people in the office Dan: Yeah. Granger Forson: that are managing all the things that need to get done in ensuring that the agent out there is delivering an amazing service. So let's think about one of those roles at the moment rather than both of those roles, but thinking about time. which one are you considering at the moment then? Dan: The HQ structure actually is whereby I Granger Forson: Okay. Dan: think we've sort of got to if something happens on a self-employed basis with somebody fantastic as we're doing we're already kind of looking at that continuing with that but actually what needs to happen to operate Granger Forson: Okay, okay. Dan: anyway is the HQ so that's where the priority is. Granger Forson: Okay, super. So within the processes in HQ, you've got activities that need to get done. Have you mapped those activities? Do you know what each one of those roughly takes in terms of time and capacity? Do you understand all of the detail that needs to happen in each one of those roles? Dan: Yes, actually we did a exercise where we literally sort of process mapped our processes, which sort of operates the Granger Forson: Excellent. Dan: business. which is quite nice to be able to just go Granger Forson: Brilliant. Dan: to that section there, which might be my sort of roles and responsibilities on a day-to-day basis is where we are looking at. So then maybe not replace me, but sort of come in and go, okay. I can do the listings, win the business, bring it all together and kind of provide that whole service across the board is where we've kind of got to, which would then free me up to then go and do potentially more of the top, the sort of high funnel stuff in a lovely way. It's all important roles. Granger Forson: Absolutely, yes. Okay. Yeah. Absolutely, no they are. A business runs on lots of different activities that need to happen. So this role is coming in or potential. So in order to do that you need to have sufficient revenue in order to make that happen. So one of the things we always consider is what do we think our revenue growth is going to be? Can we map that? Do we actually know? Do we have a lot of forward scheduling in order to understand that? At what point does it become too busy for me to do it, I need to hand it over to somebody else. And often an expression I use is that 50-50 moment. So when you have 50 % of the revenue that you would need to cover that salary, that opportunity of bringing that person in, training them up, and taking over those roles for you will release that time for you to go and fill the rest of the 50%. So that can be a trigger point somewhere around the sort of 50%. Up to that moment, you have to do it all. Absolutely. You've got to grow that 50%, which is hard, but actually that's what we do as business owners. We know when we have to do that graft to make it happen, and then we can then liberate our time as we generate that revenue. But there's one really important thing that we need in order to make that happen, which a lot of business owners don't think about, and that's cash in the bank. Dan: Hmm. Granger Forson: So I always say to my clients, well, the most important thing that you need is a minimum of six months worth of operating expenses. Now you have to find what those operating expenses are, because if things went wrong, you would cut back as you've already had that experience. But the salaries, et cetera, because if you've got six months in the bank minimum, then if something doesn't quite work out, you can make a decision over the next few weeks or month, a month or so, rather than having to make it right here right now because you've only got less than a month's worth of cash in the bank. And it's the same when you're employing people. There will be a transition period where you will not see that growth in revenue yet because that person coming in is going through a development of their skills in order to fit in the organization and to be able to develop that, which will then release you to be able to... go and find the rest of that growth that you need from it. So it's the 50-50 equation. When do we go? When do we not? But it's also having that buffer in the business bank account that actually allows us to experiment to make those decisions and see what happens without putting the business at jeopardy. What are your thoughts on that? Dan: Yeah, so I think it's really interesting. I quite like your 50-50 theory there, actually, and then also the cash in the bank, the two sort of operationally, because yeah, as you say, you wouldn't want to sort of risk the business for those things necessary, because there wouldn't be any business, would there? Of course. So yeah, I quite... Granger Forson: Absolutely. Dan: building that sort 50-50 buffer to then go, okay, yeah, if I lost that 50 % but gave that what then could I do that extra that covers that salary, for example, which is what it's about, isn't it, ultimately? quite a lot, the answer should be yes, Granger Forson: Absolutely. Dan: of course, shouldn't it? You'd like to think so. Could I generate Granger Forson: Yes. Yeah. Yes. Dan: views of what, you know, and that's always the... the analysis journey of what we're going on when we look at these things. So yeah, that was really good to just hear it from a different perspective there. Thank you. Granger Forson: And the other thing to have is a good cash flow diagram. Usually built in Excel, you can buy software to do it. I don't know whether you use anything like Xero, but we download from Xero on a weekly basis and update our cash flow. And the cash flow allows you then to sort of do some modeling. What's our forward order book? How far in advance can we see where we're going? We used to do this in the corporate world. all the time we used to them what's our forward order but what are we looking like do we Do we recruit? Do we not recruit? from the process. So having a cash flow diagram is a really important tool to have as you mature as a business. It allows you to make decisions. Someone else can build it for you and run it for you and you can just ask them to model. Well, what if we do this? What if we do this? Can we see this order book changing? What if it goes down as well as up over two months? You can play with that and understand. So that's a very useful tool. The last bit is, do we need to recruit at all? Dan: Mm-hmm. Granger Forson: So why I say that is the world of work is changing significantly at the moment. And there are two aspects of that. So at The Stronger Business together, we believe in simplifying everything that we do. So we help our clients really understand their processes and how to simplify it. And that comes from my lean background. And we believe in cutting processes, removing redundant stuff in there, because you will not believe how much stuff we put in place. We think, this is what we do, and it's fantastic. And actually when you look at it your clients only use 10 % of what you actually do. You know, it is amazing just how much we build in place So really looking at those processes that you've built over time Challenging them do they actually add value? We we we made three minor changes to our podcasting process which which you're on which saves us 20 minutes every single podcast I made some changes the way that edit pod podcast now, which is also using another solution that's coming along as well at the moment I'll explain in a moment, but I edited and changed that process and every podcast I can now edit in about sort of 40 minutes for a 45-50 minute podcast. So there are things that you can do to simplify and improve your processes and then you can challenge do we actually need a new person to be able to do to take on and do that. And the other... opportunity is AI. Now we look at AI as a, blimey, know, is it going to replace jobs? It's going to change stuff. But we look at AI and I help my clients to see AI as an enabling tool to make things happen faster, to make things happen better, to challenge what we're doing, to make us think differently when our process is. Again, it always comes to the fact that you see this word process. We either simplify it we use AI to speed it up. And it's that opportunity sometimes when we really stop and look at our system that maybe we don't need to recruit, maybe we need to spend some time on simplification and using AI. What are your thoughts on that? Dan: Yeah, it's one of the reasons why I say we are trying to stay nimble and agile, particularly at the moment. And one of the reasons why we've delayed certain hiring decisions because we've gone, actually, do we really need that? And that's what we've been looking at in terms of the, you know, the the actual structure of what we operate on and really actually challenging ourselves and going what do we actually need people for because there are specific roles within our current industry whereby there are still needed that the human connection but a lot of the procedural stuff actually can be done by AI remotely. it's kind of having that humans for empathy sort of touch in the connection. And actually the AI and how we operate in our systems should probably be more AI. And that's what we're still looking at to allow the people to do things like this to Be out actually with the clients to have that human connection because I am a big believer I think there's you kind of touch on when there's two separate ways here I think AI is fantastic and a brilliant tool and it's gonna power a lot of things there But it also will create opportunity for in real life connection more than probably there have been over the last 10 15 years of my generation growing up from being 90s lad to actually We want that human connection. We don't want to be on our phones all the time. We actually want to talk to somebody. We want to feel somebody. We want to do something, you know, and feel that emotional connection with somebody. And if that's all happening in the background through your systems and procedures, through AI being there, it's funny. It allows that to happen more so, which is where I want to get our blend. Granger Forson: Yes, brilliant. the thing with AI is what we realize and we're thinking about AI is thinking about the process steps and improving the process steps and how can AI help us improve the process steps rather than the job role because often client will move between different job roles. Well why? Actually it's following a process. That client's following a process through a business. What can we do to simplify and improve and then use AI to make that process experience even better for our customers? So brilliant, lovely. I loved your answer to that. Fantastic. So what's one thing that you will think about and do next week? Dan: There's many things I'll think about and do next week, Ranger. Off the back of the... Granger Forson: Well, multiple then, I don't mind. Dan: Well, as I think I've touched upon, we've got our new sort of lady starting a new area, Cheltenham, and I think she's going to bring, actually, she brings, from a... She has been an estate agent. She's not at... Or wasn't most recently. And I think, actually... her coming into, which is always good when you have somebody come into the business. Obviously we've got our ways and our procedures, but she's going to be learning a lot of them from new, which also provides opportunity for improvement as well. And that's where I'm going to sort of really have that, okay, when we're teaching her, know, are we, can we document these things a little bit more? Can we use AI to document these more? Can we actually help? or can we change, because we've already changed a couple of things that she's gone, why'd you do it that way? And actually it's, well, we've always done it that way. It's the classic old thing. Well, what about this? yeah, actually. Yeah. So, you know, there's, there's constant involvement there and what you have when a fresh person comes in, but how we can blend her as the person there using then the advancement of technology and AI into, you know, just to help her set up. which then would be beneficial to anyone else that comes in in that way as a potential self-employed agent, whilst also actually that real challenge of what I think we're there, going, what do we actually need in the business? If we were to hire, which is why we're sort of in a, the person is really important, which is what we're in agreement with at director level. It's going, okay, we're not gonna rush this, we're okay. actually we've got enough there where we need people at the moment but maybe for the next step as the business evolves would we need maybe another one stroke two people in that H constructor. I think so still, whilst there's still the AI operations going on. It's just trying to sort of get that blend as right as possible without making, is, you know, obviously nobody wants to make the wrong decision in terms of hiring, but trying to get it as right as possible. And we've got our eyes on maybe one or two people, shall we say, which, you know, we've already had conversations within the past, which may sort of be presented with something in due course whilst looking at our cash flow bank accounts as we look into the next year, two years. We've got our 10 year sort of anniversary coming up in a couple of years now or next year, next next year, 2020, 2028. So yeah, two years time, which is a big milestone of where, where we want to sort of build towards. And that's where we're going to be making a lot of changes over next year to go, right, this is us after 10 years. and what we build with that after 10 years. want them to allow it to be the blueprint or the gold print if you like for the then foreseeable future off the back of that. So just getting those decisions right over the next 12, 18 Granger Forson: Brilliant. Okay. Dan: months to help us in that longer term future. Granger Forson: Good. So before we just go to our wrap up and close, just a little bit of an extra little bit of advice you triggered in me. So one of things Dan: Thank Granger Forson: I say to my clients when you're onboarding somebody, give them a little book, a little black book, a little red book, Dan: Yeah. Granger Forson: a little colored book, a little printed book. and ask them to write in there everything that we could improve as a business, and then to share it with you on a weekly basis or a monthly basis. And that helps them get involved in the process quicker because they're also thinking, they listen and listen to them definitely when they write them down and feedback to you, because that's a fantastic way of involving them, but also getting that rapid feedback to make that happen. And some of my clients have found that a massive change and a massive opportunity for them. So the final bit for you. move to our wrap up and close now. What did you hear yourself today Dan that maybe surprised you? Dan: Okay, what did I hear myself say that maybe surprised me? Join this session, which is generally throughout the day. I say many things that surprise me on a daily basis. one of the things that's jumping out to me is a client that I think we've moved, or potential client that we've moved heaven and earth for today, and we've actually not got the business on. and one of the reasons was we stuck to our contract, stuck to our blueprint, we stuck to our this is what we do for everyone, we didn't bend the rules in any way shape or form for them which I'm really pleased with actually because I think those clients can quite often go on to be the ones that are the most challenging on a day-to-day basis. So they asked us to maybe change a few things, which probably would have won us the business. And I've said, no, in a nicer way, of course, but this is why we operate this way. And this is the same for everyone. My consistency there and having that, the power of no is where I'm getting to there actually, which I still struggle with. So I'm very proud of myself that actually Whilst we did everything professionally and I provided all the answers, et cetera, et cetera, it was also a, I'm not gonna change actually, the structure of which we operate or change a contract just because it's one person for what reason, you know, actually. When we don't, you get that consistent clients. So there we are. Granger Forson: Well done. Well done. The power of no. So finally, Dan, where can people find out more about you to follow more of your journey? Dan: That's a great question. Right, they can go to www.freeagent.com. That's the business. So all of our social media channels will be through there. My personal channels are actually on there as well. So if you go to the about section, we've got a bit of a team sheet. I'm on there and all of my personal channels are on there. So a lot of my channels are related to Dan's House Houses, LinkedIn, Instagram, all through there. sort of backlink to the business. So the main hub for myself and the business is freeagent247.com. Go take a look. Granger Forson: Brilliant. Thank you. Thank you so much, Dan. It's been a fantastic conversation today. Thank you for being so open and honest. And I know our listeners will get a lot from this conversation. It's been fantastic. Thank you. Dan: Thank you so much for having me and yeah, if one person takes one thing from this, we've done a good job Granger. So thank you so much for having me. Really appreciate it. Granger Forson: Thanks for spending your time with us today. We're on a mission to make business owners stronger together. 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