Latest / Sukany4: The Walk and Talk Podcast / Lara Roocroft - High Dam - Counsellor, Trainee Psychosynthesis Psychotherapist, Yoga Teacher & Gong Bath Facilitator

Transcript

Lara Roocroft - High Dam - Counsellor, Trainee Psychosynthesis Psychotherapist, Yoga Teacher & Gong Bath Facilitator · Sukany4: The Walk and Talk Podcast

0:04
SPEAKER_00: Hi, I'm Zakania and this is Zakania the Podcast, a show where grass-roots stories, walks, and indie music come together in the most beautiful places my guest shares with me.
0:18
SPEAKER_00: Today I'm at High Dam Ton in the Furness Fells.
0:22
SPEAKER_00: It's another walk that's new to me, and I really enjoyed taking it all in whilst enjoying the chats with my guest today.
0:30
SPEAKER_00: It has everything gentle slope, woodland, and of course water.
0:36
SPEAKER_00: My guest today is Lara Rootcroft, a counsellor and trainee psychotherapist, a yoga teacher, a gong bath facilitator, a mother, and someone who's lived in three countries, navigated more change than most of us could imagine, and is, by her own account, still beautifully figuring herself out.
1:00
SPEAKER_00: Isn't that wonderful?
1:02
SPEAKER_00: In this episode, we talk about what it means to move from survival mode into something that actually looks and feels like a life you've chosen.
1:12
SPEAKER_00: About why we seek help too late, in therapy, in love, in all of it, really.
1:20
SPEAKER_00: About the seven-year-old you who might still need a hug.
1:25
SPEAKER_00: And about the words we use when no one else is listening.
1:30
SPEAKER_00: You know, those conversations we have with ourselves.
1:34
SPEAKER_00: How we talk to ourselves is so important, and perhaps this chat will prompt you into tuning into that a bit more.
1:41
SPEAKER_00: So let's see how we go.
1:44
SPEAKER_00: Before we set off, I'd love to shout out my season three music partner.
1:49
SPEAKER_00: A huge thank you to Persimmon for being our music partner this season.
1:54
SPEAKER_00: I love to support indie musicians and particularly love Persimmon's sound and lyrics.
2:01
SPEAKER_00: And I'm really grateful that they chose to get involved with the podcast.
2:06
SPEAKER_00: So thank you.
2:07
SPEAKER_00: You'll hear the music woven throughout this episode as always.
2:13
SPEAKER_00: If you're new here, thank you for joining us today.
2:16
SPEAKER_00: And if you're a regular listener, thank you for tuning back in.
2:19
SPEAKER_00: It's great to have you back.
2:22
SPEAKER_00: Right then, let's get those boots on or those dreadful chores on the go.
2:27
SPEAKER_00: And let's walk.
2:34
SPEAKER_02: Hi Lara.
2:35
SPEAKER_02: Hi, Sakania.
2:37
SPEAKER_01: How are you?
2:38
SPEAKER_02: I'm well, very well.
2:39
SPEAKER_02: Happy to be here with you today.
2:42
SPEAKER_00: I'm so excited.
2:43
SPEAKER_00: We're doing this.
2:44
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
2:45
SPEAKER_00: How was your drive?
2:47
SPEAKER_02: How is one?
2:48
SPEAKER_02: How was your drive?
2:49
SPEAKER_02: My drive was good.
2:50
SPEAKER_02: I took the wrong turn and was going towards the groomers how instead.
2:55
SPEAKER_00: But um, yeah, so I yeah, I'm here now.
3:00
SPEAKER_00: High dam.
3:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, high dam.
3:02
SPEAKER_00: So why are we at High Dam?
3:04
SPEAKER_02: Why is this a good walk for you?
3:06
SPEAKER_02: I've been in this area for three years.
3:08
SPEAKER_02: I live in Range of the Sands.
3:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I was in London for 14 and a half before I moved here.
3:15
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
3:15
SPEAKER_02: So that's quite a move.
3:17
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, big time.
3:19
SPEAKER_02: And this was one of the first walks I I did.
3:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
3:23
SPEAKER_02: And it's so friendly.
3:24
SPEAKER_02: It's uh it's a little bit uphill, uh obviously, yeah, but um, but it's it's very doable.
3:30
SPEAKER_02: I brought my 74-year-old auntie um last weekend, yeah, and she was okay, she enjoyed it.
3:37
SPEAKER_02: So it's a it's a walk that's quite um leisured and nice to do, and it's beautiful, yeah, and you can swim in the in the dump.
3:48
SPEAKER_02: Oh, amazing.
3:49
SPEAKER_00: So it's lovely, yeah.
3:50
SPEAKER_00: Very beautiful.
3:51
SPEAKER_00: So, what inspired the move to England?
3:54
SPEAKER_00: Let's start there.
3:56
SPEAKER_00: Where did you move from?
3:57
SPEAKER_00: Well, I moved from Brazil in 2007.
4:00
SPEAKER_02: And is that where you grew up?
4:02
SPEAKER_02: It's yeah, where I was born and I grew up.
4:05
SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
4:06
SPEAKER_02: So I finished a language degree then I came to I had the opportunity to come for six months to study English and being 18.
4:16
SPEAKER_02: 18 years.
4:17
SPEAKER_02: So you enjoyed, you obviously enjoyed the life here.
4:19
SPEAKER_02: I enjoyed style.
4:21
SPEAKER_02: This country has been more gentle to me than than my my homeland.
4:28
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
4:28
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, life was was harder in Brazil.
4:32
SPEAKER_00: So, what were you doing in London for 18 years?
4:35
SPEAKER_02: Well, I started as uh in the care work as a carer.
4:40
SPEAKER_02: Because I was like I had a nursing qualification back home.
4:44
SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
4:45
SPEAKER_02: And then eventually I did a nursing degree.
4:47
SPEAKER_02: I've been in the nursing, the healthcare profession for 30 years.
4:51
SPEAKER_02: Oh wow.
4:52
SPEAKER_02: And now I'm training as a psychotherapist, but so still a service kind of industry.
4:57
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
4:57
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
4:58
SPEAKER_02: I think that's part of the mission.
5:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's your calling, GT.
5:02
SPEAKER_02: My calling, yeah.
5:03
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
5:03
SPEAKER_02: Pretty much.
5:04
SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's in different ways, different paths, but more or less.
5:08
SPEAKER_02: I'm um I used to think that was helping people, but mostly it's helping myself to grow and expand.
5:14
SPEAKER_02: Oh wow.
5:15
SPEAKER_02: You know, we have this idea that we are helping people, but um we're learning from it.
5:22
SPEAKER_02: We're learning from it and we're healing from it as well.
5:24
SPEAKER_02: You know, it's uh that's a really nice perspective.
5:27
SPEAKER_02: In a very, you know, a nutshell, but yeah, there's more to it, I think.
5:31
SPEAKER_02: This is beautiful.
5:32
SPEAKER_02: It is lovely.
5:33
SPEAKER_00: It is.
5:34
SPEAKER_00: Never forget to stop and look back.
5:37
SPEAKER_02: Have you been here?
5:38
SPEAKER_00: I haven't.
5:39
SPEAKER_00: Oh I haven't no.
5:40
SPEAKER_00: I've been to the Stott Bobbin Mill and did a tour in there.
5:46
SPEAKER_00: Have you done that before?
5:47
SPEAKER_00: That's really cool.
5:48
SPEAKER_00: That's really there's a lot of history there about making little bobbins for um thread.
5:54
SPEAKER_00: It's really cool.
5:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but it never came up this way.
5:59
SPEAKER_02: I've I've tried to stick to what I know, but I know there's so many beautiful walks here that you need really need to explore, but yeah.
6:07
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, oh it's lovely.
6:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you can have a swim as well.
6:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I didn't bring my stuff actually.
6:14
SPEAKER_00: No, me neither.
6:15
SPEAKER_00: Maybe next time.
6:16
SPEAKER_00: Next time.
6:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I like the idea of actually what starts out as I think I'm helping someone is actually helping me.
6:23
SPEAKER_00: And how did that look for you?
6:26
SPEAKER_02: In healthcare, it started well when I I started I was 18, I'm 50 now.
6:30
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
6:31
SPEAKER_02: So you're not 50, stop it.
6:33
SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
6:34
SPEAKER_02: So it started like it gave me a meaning, a purpose in life.
6:38
SPEAKER_02: So I was going to when I start training as um we called it nursing technician back home in Brazil, which is equivalent to like a nursing associate here in this country now.
6:50
SPEAKER_02: So I found purpose.
6:51
SPEAKER_02: I've I really enjoyed being with people.
6:53
SPEAKER_02: It was, you know, I was starting my adult life, and I really found that I was doing something meaningful.
7:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
7:01
SPEAKER_02: People were valuing my work, and that found so in a way I was helping people, but I was finding meaning, and I've I was finding myself in that new environment and as grown up.
7:12
SPEAKER_02: Did you find it quite an intimidating environment to go into?
7:16
SPEAKER_02: I found myself myself in my element at the time, surprisingly, you know.
7:20
SPEAKER_02: I used to get this is so interesting because I never I don't often talk about this, but yeah, I found sometimes people were a bit suspicious, like, are you sure you're qualified?
7:29
SPEAKER_02: You look so young.
7:30
SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah, that's interesting.
7:32
SPEAKER_02: But then and now, interestingly enough, I see my 19-year-old niece going through similar really, she looks really young and she's doing the same the same thing, yeah, and training to be a nurse.
7:44
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's interesting, yeah.
7:46
SPEAKER_00: So, how did you navigate that?
7:47
SPEAKER_00: How did you kind of carry that through and dispel those perceptions?
7:54
SPEAKER_02: I think for many years I was in the survival mode, so it was just part of my life, it was what I did, yeah, and I found meaning, but I wasn't really thinking about the psychological aspects of it, it was just what it was.
8:08
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and then much later when I moved to the UK, I wasn't a survivor again because I came when I was 32 and I had two kids, so I brought the boys with me.
8:19
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so it was survival mode for for a while, and it it has been changing quite significantly for the past decade, really.
8:28
SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
8:29
SPEAKER_02: And for especially now that I'm I'm doing the psychotherapy training, it's really life-changing in terms of self-awareness.
8:38
SPEAKER_02: But not only self-awareness, it's like going to those places that sometimes very uncomfortable, yeah.
8:44
SPEAKER_02: But also learning how to have self-compassion.
8:48
SPEAKER_02: So it's it's different.
8:49
SPEAKER_02: There's there has been a big shift since in yourself, in myself, and also in the in regards to my relationship with my nursing career.
8:59
SPEAKER_02: Okay, yeah.
9:01
SPEAKER_02: Uh yeah.
9:02
SPEAKER_02: In what way?
9:02
SPEAKER_02: How how can you help us understand that?
9:05
SPEAKER_02: Well, one simple way um is this feeling that I was helping people before, and now actually this is my mission, it's something I do for myself.
9:17
SPEAKER_02: And it's a need to be a curiosity, a curiosity to get to know myself, and and and that is also a discovering of who are who am I really in my core, you know?
9:28
SPEAKER_02: Am I my profession?
9:30
SPEAKER_02: Am I my OCD or my critical thinking or my survival, you know, parts?
9:37
SPEAKER_02: It's a really interesting question, isn't it?
9:39
SPEAKER_00: And I think it's something not all of us invest enough time in, and maybe because of that we put a lot of expectation on other people to fill those gaps, yeah.
9:50
SPEAKER_02: To expect the other one, the other people to have the answer.
9:53
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, to have the answer, to have we we expect to have the perfect job who uh where we feel valued, we feel rewarded, we find find meaning, yeah, and we earn good money.
10:05
SPEAKER_02: So what do I bring, you know?
10:07
SPEAKER_02: And the same with relationships, yeah.
10:09
SPEAKER_02: We Disney contribute to that, isn't it?
10:13
SPEAKER_02: I'm so waiting for the prince on a hole.
10:16
SPEAKER_02: So you we have this mm many of us have this uh idealized version that the prince will come.
10:22
SPEAKER_02: I'm talking about women, but it's it's probably true for men as well.
10:26
SPEAKER_02: This ideal person will come and he'll get me, and then it'll just be perfect.
10:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we just have to look at each other and the sparks will fly and everything fits into place.
10:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
10:38
SPEAKER_00: But actually, if we don't know ourselves, exactly, how does that work?
10:42
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
10:43
SPEAKER_02: And we can only do what is for us to do.
10:45
SPEAKER_02: You can only save ourselves, no, not the other.
10:48
SPEAKER_02: So that's been pretty much part of my journey as well.
10:53
SPEAKER_02: Like how to be in relationship, yeah, not only with my husband now, but with people in general, you know.
10:58
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
10:59
SPEAKER_00: In all aspects.
11:00
SPEAKER_00: Um because every friendship is a relationship you're nurturing, isn't it?
11:04
SPEAKER_00: I think we kind of forget that sometimes, and we take our long-term friendships for granted almost, and actually we still need to nourish them and you still need to put that plant food in.
11:17
SPEAKER_02: It needs to do some easy, yeah.
11:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and also friends, you have to especially long term for how long um you've been friends with your best friend, for example?
11:26
SPEAKER_02: 35 years.
11:27
SPEAKER_02: 35 years, yeah.
11:29
SPEAKER_02: So is he a hymn?
11:30
SPEAKER_02: She, yeah.
11:31
SPEAKER_02: So can you say her name?
11:33
SPEAKER_02: Probably better not to.
11:34
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
11:35
SPEAKER_02: Okay, you're a uh Anne, let's call her.
11:38
SPEAKER_02: Let's call her Beyonce.
11:40
SPEAKER_02: Beyonce.
11:40
SPEAKER_02: So you're friends with Beyonce for 35 years.
11:43
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
11:43
SPEAKER_02: So you have changed a lot in 35 years.
11:46
SPEAKER_02: You went through difficulties, you you you changed the place where you live, your partners, whatever happened to you.
11:55
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and so did she.
11:57
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
11:58
SPEAKER_02: And so how you check in with each other, you know, because we're very good at holding people to how we knew them before, like our family.
12:08
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, our family do that.
12:11
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they they want to to to remember us from like for me, for example, is like I used to be very reactive and and an angry teenager, so they still hold me.
12:21
SPEAKER_02: Even though I've been still that person, they still be like, Oh, you're so reactive, but it's like you don't know me anymore, you know, and maybe and that wasn't me, I was reactive because um there was something going on, yeah.
12:34
SPEAKER_02: But that's not the real me, yeah.
12:36
SPEAKER_02: So and you remain so Kenya remains being the real her, yeah, since always the core, the essence, the self with the capital S.
12:44
SPEAKER_02: But lots of things, layers change, the you know, a lot of the of the stuff around you has changed.
12:51
SPEAKER_02: So, how do you check with your friends where you are and you follow, and you have interest and you have curiosity?
12:58
SPEAKER_00: That's key, isn't it?
12:59
SPEAKER_00: Have curiosity and ask your friends the questions or the people in your life, yeah, and I guess really importantly your family, because yes, you're you're probably holding these preconceived notions about them as well.
13:12
SPEAKER_00: Yes, we have to look at ourselves because we do the same.
13:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
13:16
SPEAKER_02: It's not because we have the awareness we are immune.
13:19
SPEAKER_02: No, exactly.
13:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, it does actually once you have the awareness, you're almost more I was gonna say under pressure, but more accountable to yourself to do the work and and really question how you're reacting to someone else because they're do you know sometimes depending how you see awareness, I my my belief, my um is it can be overrated because you can have the awareness, you know, awareness is important.
13:45
SPEAKER_02: I'm not saying otherwise, awareness is important, but sometimes if you have so much awareness, you might start being hypercritical about things and monitoring, and you may lose authenticity because you're so worried about the awareness and how well I'm having I'm gonna have curiosity about my friends, so I'm gonna ask her questions, yeah.
14:04
SPEAKER_02: But more important than awareness is the authenticity is for you to be in touch with your feelings, and this is difficult, you know.
14:13
SPEAKER_02: Like now in my um in my clinic, and it's so humbling because I'm starting a new profession for the past two years and seeing private clients.
14:23
SPEAKER_02: It's amazing, and then you ask, but how do you feel about it?
14:26
SPEAKER_02: And people just don't know, so it's it's they cannot express voice or express how they feel, or if I ask um, what do you need?
14:35
SPEAKER_02: People myself included, I don't know what I need.
14:38
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so we expect the other to read our minds, preempt our needs, but we don't know what they are, yeah, and then get annoyed when those needs are not made.
14:47
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
14:48
SPEAKER_00: So how do you not know me, Laura?
14:51
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
14:52
SPEAKER_00: You failed me.
14:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
14:54
SPEAKER_00: And that's quite a brave move.
14:56
SPEAKER_00: Was it a brave move to switch careers at this time?
14:59
SPEAKER_02: That's a great question.
15:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you you really asked the questions, I have to say.
15:04
SPEAKER_02: Thanks.
15:06
SPEAKER_02: And it's so natural.
15:09
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
15:10
SPEAKER_02: Okay, I and I can this is a great example because you've been genuinely curious.
15:16
SPEAKER_02: I can tell.
15:17
SPEAKER_02: You're not just like, okay, I have a script here, yeah, and I have to follow.
15:21
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you've been authentic and it's brilliant for a podcast, especially.
15:26
SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
15:26
SPEAKER_02: It was a crisis of meaning, you know.
15:29
SPEAKER_02: When you when you reach a point that you it happens for the different people in different ways, you know, like if you ask my colleagues, they might have come to to a psychotherapy training for different reasons.
15:41
SPEAKER_02: For me, it was a crisis of meaning.
15:44
SPEAKER_02: I reached a point that I was in so much emotional pain and loneliness.
15:49
SPEAKER_02: I had failed failed relationships, romantic relationships.
15:55
SPEAKER_02: Uh I was dating my current my my husband now for five years on and off, and he wasn't going anywhere.
16:02
SPEAKER_02: It was so problematic.
16:03
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
16:04
SPEAKER_02: And I just had enough, I just to reach to a point that something had to change.
16:10
SPEAKER_02: And I found a lot of discomfort inside.
16:13
SPEAKER_02: So, what we tend to think is like that emotional pain we want to get rid of.
16:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we want to go to the GP and ask for a pill.
16:20
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
16:20
SPEAKER_02: And sometimes the pill is necessary.
16:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it gets you going, it gets you going.
16:25
SPEAKER_02: But going through that dark path, you know, the dark night of the soul that you you're going through that emotional pain, looking, why am I feeling this?
16:35
SPEAKER_02: It might be a call for for something to emerge, yeah, yeah, to rally things.
16:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
16:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
16:42
SPEAKER_02: And how do we do that?
16:43
SPEAKER_02: We don't want that.
16:44
SPEAKER_00: And also, I think when that happens, we panic and we say, Oh my god, I'm broken.
16:48
SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna make my day busier and busier.
16:51
SPEAKER_00: And we eat more, we drink more, we find drugs that slow us more, we do whatever to avoid it.
16:57
SPEAKER_00: Amazon.
16:58
SPEAKER_00: I know, I cancelled Amazon.
17:00
SPEAKER_00: Other retailers are available.
17:04
SPEAKER_00: Local business as well.
17:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, local business.
17:06
SPEAKER_00: That's my new addiction.
17:09
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, it's true.
17:10
SPEAKER_00: You just kind of fill your bucket with so much other stuff.
17:13
SPEAKER_00: And we find you we find the excuse, you know, we have supporting supporting the local business.
17:18
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
17:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I'm doing my duty.
17:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but yeah, that's really true.
17:23
SPEAKER_00: So, how did you address it then?
17:26
SPEAKER_02: You oh I I wasn't super conscious of what was happening.
17:30
SPEAKER_02: I knew I needed to change, something needed to change.
17:33
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I was and I started I at first I thought the things coincide, and this is about synchronicity as well, you know.
17:41
SPEAKER_02: You have you you use your will to do something, yeah.
17:45
SPEAKER_02: But life takes you know, if you align your your will, if you're not if you take it, if you're swimming against the current, you know, all things fall into place.
17:56
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
17:57
SPEAKER_00: If you're trying to go against it, yeah, yeah, that's when you have issues.
18:01
SPEAKER_02: So sometimes, you know, it's it's a good thing to to check with whatever.
18:07
SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, it's a lot of people.
18:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
18:10
SPEAKER_02: So sometimes it's a good thing to check with whatever your belief system is, yeah.
18:16
SPEAKER_00: Even if it's a oh, it's a very panty dog.
18:21
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
18:21
SPEAKER_02: Even if you if you're an atheist, for example, you can check with your higher self, your young self who or it may be God, universe, higher spirits, whatever name you you want to call it.
18:32
SPEAKER_02: Or whatever you want to call it, or whatever you believe or speaks to your heart.
18:37
SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah.
18:39
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
18:40
SPEAKER_02: Um it's good to check to see if um if you're on the right track, yeah.
18:47
SPEAKER_02: That resonates with you, with your mission.
18:49
SPEAKER_02: If you you know you can you can ask for guidance, yeah.
18:53
SPEAKER_02: You know, in the way that works for you, for each p person is maybe different.
18:57
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but it's about finding that that um unifying center where you can check in.
19:04
SPEAKER_02: Okay, why did I incarnate in this body, in this life, in this, am I following my mission?
19:10
SPEAKER_02: What am I missing here?
19:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, what is my purpose?
19:13
SPEAKER_02: What is my purpose?
19:15
SPEAKER_02: And and what is the very next step here, small one in front of me that will be aligned with their purpose.
19:23
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, and and people might have um different ways to access that sacred space.
19:29
SPEAKER_02: I guess for you is to be nature.
19:31
SPEAKER_02: I is the guess.
19:32
SPEAKER_02: I love it.
19:33
SPEAKER_02: From to be nature and to to nature is my therapy, like walking is my therapy.
19:39
SPEAKER_00: I just go walking on my own.
19:41
SPEAKER_00: I love it.
19:42
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes with music, mostly with music, sometimes no music, and your thoughts just run free, don't they?
19:48
SPEAKER_00: Even with music, sometimes that helps.
19:51
SPEAKER_02: And I imagine you get insights when you yeah, I kind of do some of my best thinking.
19:57
SPEAKER_00: So if I've if I've got a so I'm an IT consultant by trade, everyone's like, what does that mean?
20:03
SPEAKER_00: Sounds really boring.
20:06
SPEAKER_00: But basically, I'm a business analyst, so I work between the business and the the techie people to tell them what what is broken in the business, and so sometimes in order to document that, you have to be able to communicate quite well with two different very different sets of people, and then document it in a way that's uh relatable to both sets of people, all sets of people, and so sometimes you have to just go for a walk and let things marinade, and then when you come back, it just happens.
20:38
SPEAKER_00: But if you just kind of sit there staring at something, it doesn't change, it doesn't move on.
20:43
SPEAKER_02: And you're giving a perfect example, you have a job, a job role that is very mind-oriented, very m matter-of-fact here.
20:50
SPEAKER_02: But there is the relational part of the the job that you have to be um in in psychosynthesis, which is the style I'm I train, we call it right relational.
21:00
SPEAKER_02: It's how do you speak your needs, you honest, or and you you you you you relate well with others, yeah, you know.
21:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so you have to to to practice that, and you're telling me that for for you to be able to write relate with the people involved, sometimes you have to pause, take a step back, and you find a way to fill your cup to have that in nature, yeah, exactly.
21:25
SPEAKER_02: You know it, so each person might be different, yeah.
21:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sometimes you need to just pause the day and watch a movie and then come back to it.
21:34
SPEAKER_00: Something isn't it?
21:34
SPEAKER_00: It's to disrupt that pattern of oh my god, nothing's happening.
21:39
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's to check and ask ourselves what do I need now?
21:42
SPEAKER_02: Yes, what can I do for myself?
21:44
SPEAKER_02: Yes, you know, because we we sometimes can get hooked up I'm helping others, I'm doing it for others.
21:50
SPEAKER_02: But if as cliche as it sounds, like can you can I fill my cup first?
21:55
SPEAKER_02: How can I do that?
21:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they always say put your life jacket on first, don't they?
21:59
SPEAKER_00: Because if you don't Work, nothing else works, and also you could be doing all these things, amazing, really helpful things for other people, and at the end of the day, you get to bed and you feel empty.
22:11
SPEAKER_00: And that's the bit I think sometimes we're guilty of trying to avoid because that's the hard bit trying to understand why we're feeling empty.
22:19
SPEAKER_02: But this is a yes, uh why, but what is what is missing?
22:23
SPEAKER_02: What is this trying to tell me?
22:25
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, and what I sense, correct me if I'm wrong.
22:29
SPEAKER_02: Uh what I sense is like you you you might have enjoyed your work, but there was a calling for you to to be creative, to have something more, and do something that you you create innovating and hence the podcast, exactly, yeah.
22:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
22:45
SPEAKER_02: So it's listening that listening to that call because you can just oh I don't have time for this.
22:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:50
SPEAKER_00: But it's testing, isn't it?
22:52
SPEAKER_00: So in my case, it was testing because I thought, actually, I talk to a lot of people every day, and I love it.
22:59
SPEAKER_00: So why don't I and I love walking?
23:02
SPEAKER_00: So why don't I walk and talk to people and see what comes up because then it's more natural.
23:08
SPEAKER_02: Makes your heart sing, yes, it's it sounds like, yeah.
23:12
SPEAKER_00: I love it.
23:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then I get to hang out with people like you, yeah, and you educate me.
23:19
SPEAKER_02: And and vice versa.
23:20
SPEAKER_02: And another thing I I I imagine is very important for to do what you're doing is to let go of the perfection at first, isn't it?
23:28
SPEAKER_02: Because we very often we stop, we don't even take off any idea because we think it has to be, I believe there has to be in a certain way.
23:37
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and it's quite the opposite.
23:39
SPEAKER_02: You have to start and then you adjust what is what can be improved.
23:44
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
23:45
SPEAKER_00: And and that's a really good point because actually, if I was going for perfection, it wouldn't be out yet.
23:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like over a year later, it wouldn't be out.
23:55
SPEAKER_00: And the first series, the hardest bit was listening to myself.
24:00
SPEAKER_00: I was like, oh my god, this is so awkward.
24:03
SPEAKER_00: I don't want to hear my own voice.
24:05
SPEAKER_02: How are you with that now?
24:06
SPEAKER_02: You made peace.
24:07
SPEAKER_00: Yes, yeah, now it's fine.
24:08
SPEAKER_00: I don't even think about it.
24:10
SPEAKER_00: How how did you do that?
24:11
SPEAKER_00: How did you manage to well I did I recorded the intros and outros for my season one and I couldn't listen to it for two weeks.
24:19
SPEAKER_00: It was two weeks of torture that I thought, you're an idiot.
24:23
SPEAKER_00: You hear yourself every day, you talk every day, so just get on with it.
24:28
SPEAKER_00: And so I had to let go of the judgment on myself.
24:32
SPEAKER_00: You have to have self-compassion and acceptance.
24:35
SPEAKER_00: Be kind to myself and say, This is who you are, and people love you, so love yourself, yeah.
24:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, celebrate yourself, celebrate your boy.
24:46
SPEAKER_02: And it's not easy to do because we we are so conditioned and and also criticism as well, because people who are critics, you know, critics, people who criticize um critics of books or restaurants, or so they stand there to see the flaws.
25:05
SPEAKER_02: Yes, and and and critics in general, not maybe not those professionals, I can't speak for for that.
25:11
SPEAKER_02: But many people who have had a dream, had something calling them, but they chose not to listen to that, right?
25:19
SPEAKER_02: They might be the first ones to criticize and find the flaws.
25:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
25:23
SPEAKER_02: And and but when you listen to criticism, I don't know if you got any negative review or or some criticism, is it can be really painful.
25:31
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
25:32
SPEAKER_02: But how do we carry on with that, you know?
25:35
SPEAKER_00: I mean, to be honest, I kind of with the whole social media world and generally with the way I tend to conduct my life, is you have to have your foot your focus and your confidence in what you're doing.
25:48
SPEAKER_00: And sure, people always have a comment, and there's always other people.
25:52
SPEAKER_00: Who are these people, Lara?
25:53
SPEAKER_02: No, but you I think it's perfect while you're saying perfect in English.
25:58
SPEAKER_02: Perfect in in France, yeah.
26:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, um, because for that we have to um we in psychosynthesis we talk about disidentification, yeah, which is for example, um, okay, you have your opinion, yeah, you don't like my jumper, for example.
26:14
SPEAKER_02: And I can get really offended, I can identify with your opinion and think there's something wrong with me or the way I dress or some of your choices or who you are.
26:23
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but I can say, like you said, oh who are these people?
26:27
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, okay, it's your opinion.
26:30
SPEAKER_02: So I disidentify, yeah.
26:32
SPEAKER_02: I disidentify, I don't take it personally.
26:34
SPEAKER_00: Well, do you say disidentify?
26:36
SPEAKER_02: Disidentify, yeah.
26:37
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
26:38
SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
26:39
SPEAKER_02: I've never heard that term before.
26:40
SPEAKER_02: It's a psychosynthesis term terminology.
26:43
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so you disidentify when you you see it from a distance, you know, you take a step back and you see the bigger picture, yeah.
26:50
SPEAKER_02: And you just okay, so they might have those them their reasons to say that, yeah, but doesn't say you know, doesn't reflect on who I am.
27:00
SPEAKER_02: It might do sometimes, I can take some uh some uh criticism or feedback, yeah.
27:05
SPEAKER_02: To say, but you also can see when it's genuine when people want to to to give you feedback for you to grow and they want to to say, like, well, yeah, just yeah, just for put down sake, isn't it?
27:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's really interesting.
27:19
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so with psychosynthesis, then how did you land on that topic particularly?
27:26
SPEAKER_00: Because there's so many different ways to um psychoanalyze, I suppose.
27:31
SPEAKER_02: Yes, that's another great question, thank you.
27:36
SPEAKER_02: So psychoanalysis is uh the analysis in a nutshell, yeah, is the analysis of the psyche.
27:42
SPEAKER_02: So you look at the psyche and you look about uh you know, if you think about Freud and Jung, um you look uh um to the the attic, you know, the the suppressed energy, right?
27:55
SPEAKER_02: Your your traumas and your stuff that you suppress and to to uh to start with.
28:02
SPEAKER_02: And psychosynthesis is a synthesis of all parts of you, yeah.
28:07
SPEAKER_02: The suppressed stuff as well, but all your emotions, your here and now, and also the the the caveat, the the big difference with psychosynthesis because it has this excuse me spiritual aspect of it.
28:22
SPEAKER_02: So when I look at Sukania, I can um if you if you were to be my client, for example, or just as a friend or someone I know I have to say I'm quite enjoying my free session right now.
28:35
SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, I would say um perhaps a woman who um who has a will who goes there and and create and and is freeing herself of any um demands from society that tells her she has to do a podcast in a certain way.
28:51
SPEAKER_02: So she's doing her thing and daring to be authentic.
28:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
28:55
SPEAKER_02: So that's one thing one way to to to look at you from this snapshot I get now.
28:59
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, okay.
29:00
SPEAKER_02: So but I can go further and psychosynthesis gives that I can open my heart and aim to see.
29:06
SPEAKER_02: It's not always easy, yeah.
29:07
SPEAKER_02: Because we get our own projections as well.
29:09
SPEAKER_02: So I aim to see you with my heart open.
29:12
SPEAKER_02: So who you are, who are you with you know your spiritual self, who you are in your core, you know?
29:18
SPEAKER_02: Why why why did we cross paths?
29:20
SPEAKER_00: No, that's really interesting because actually, when we first meet anyone, you can't help it.
29:26
SPEAKER_00: We're wired to judge people, aren't we?
29:28
SPEAKER_00: And you have to really catch yourself to be be a good person, start at a hundred percent, don't put your hang-ups on someone else and just see how that relationship grows and um how your your interaction is.
29:43
SPEAKER_00: And with some people, it doesn't go so well, and that's okay because they're not your people, but you might still be acquaintances, for example.
29:51
SPEAKER_00: But when it's in a professional setting, you don't know who's gonna walk through that door, and they're coming to you for help, and to be helpful, you have to let go of all that, don't you?
30:03
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but you know, you're still a human, you're a therapist, but you're still a human.
30:06
SPEAKER_02: Sometimes you know, you can you can have someone in your consulting room who you think, oh, I wouldn't like to be friends with this person.
30:14
SPEAKER_02: And uh, but then can you can I check on my own projections and say what what does it tell about me?
30:20
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, can I put this to the side and have my heart open and hear this person, listen to this person with compassion and hold whatever it they they bring.
30:31
SPEAKER_02: And it's you know, and I was really fearful of that at first when I started.
30:35
SPEAKER_02: I thought, oh, I hope I get clients I like.
30:37
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
30:39
SPEAKER_02: And I've been lucky so far.
30:41
SPEAKER_02: But there are things I feel like, oh, and then I catch myself, I'm being judgmental about this.
30:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, so I so we all have we call it projections.
30:51
SPEAKER_02: So I have my projections there.
30:52
SPEAKER_02: How can I look at my projections, be aware of them, and I said, Can I put to the side and allow this person to to have an experience or me to have an experience of this person's presence?
31:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like you know, blank page.
31:07
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, thank you for that.
31:08
SPEAKER_00: Uh we were talking about so we you were mentioning Freud and Jung.
31:12
SPEAKER_00: Who are they for anyone that's not aware?
31:15
SPEAKER_02: So the Freud is the um founder of psychoanalysis, okay.
31:20
SPEAKER_02: And um, but I would can I tell you about uh Roberto Sagioli instead, who is the founder of psychosynthesis.
31:27
SPEAKER_02: Oh, okay, yeah.
31:27
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
31:28
SPEAKER_02: So Roberto Sagioli was a contemporary of Jung, and he was he was very young when Freud was still like you know, Freud was called the father of uh psychoanalysis.
31:41
SPEAKER_02: But um I don't have a lot of experience about Freud to talk about them.
31:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so Roberto Sagioli was uh psych an Italian psychiatrist from Florence, and so he was studying psychotherapy from the early days when psychotherapy wasn't still a profession, established profession.
32:03
SPEAKER_02: But he was very ahead of the time, so he was already thinking about the spiritual being, the spiritual self.
32:09
SPEAKER_02: So when Freud starts saying things about um talking about hysteria or a lot about suppressed uh sexuality, yeah.
32:19
SPEAKER_02: So Asaiwali was already, even though he was very young, he was already thinking there's more to it, not everything.
32:26
SPEAKER_02: So some stuff maybe repressed sexuality, but it's not the answer to everything, it's not the answer to everything, you know.
32:35
SPEAKER_02: Um there is a film called Hysteria, I don't know if you ever seen it.
32:40
SPEAKER_02: It's a really interesting film.
32:42
SPEAKER_02: I might not remember like the details now to tell you, but you know, there was a treatment for hysteria back in the day when and I don't know to hear what you're gonna be saying.
32:53
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so yeah, yeah, I don't know how much I can say here, but it's a really interesting film to watch.
32:58
SPEAKER_02: It's based in real facts, obviously.
33:01
SPEAKER_02: And um, and how hysteria was seen, like it was a problem women had, but it was a failure, you know, of uh the thought um the fact women had being hysteria, uh having hysteria, and um yeah, so doctors were treating hysteria with um massage, yeah.
33:22
SPEAKER_02: So to help women to have orgasm, so that really is and from that from that practice they uh came to invent the vibrator.
33:32
SPEAKER_02: Oh, so I don't know how much is true, but some of it is true.
33:35
SPEAKER_02: There's a film, the film is really interesting.
33:38
SPEAKER_02: And so we moved on from that, you know.
33:42
SPEAKER_02: So if we use now, like for example, if if I think about um in those terms of psychosynthesis, uh using your will and asking for what you need might be in a relationship to to say, like, how you like sex, yeah, or how you don't like sex, or do you want to do that?
33:58
SPEAKER_02: It's such an important conversation.
34:00
SPEAKER_02: Do you want yeah, yeah, do you do you do you have how do you have orgasm?
34:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, you know, there's empowering, so it's more than your and I think it also brings couples together.
34:12
SPEAKER_00: I just don't think as society we talk about sex enough openly, yeah, because it is such a fundamental part of it.
34:18
SPEAKER_00: It's a life energy, it's a life force, yeah.
34:21
SPEAKER_00: It's essential, it's essential for all humans.
34:24
SPEAKER_00: So to to kind of dismiss it and say it's not important is to me, you're denying yourself something that you just as a basic human being needs, yeah.
34:36
SPEAKER_02: And and that's interesting, and perhaps treatment for what they used to call hysteria is a woman having her needs met, you know, instead of like for example, back in the day, Esther Perell is a specialist in Ohio.
34:51
SPEAKER_02: No, she's a specialist in in relationships, she's absolutely brilliant, and she talks about this historically.
34:57
SPEAKER_02: What would we expect from a marriage was a husband who was a provider and um a secure base, yeah.
35:04
SPEAKER_02: You know, um, being a good father was secondary, it's a very new thing.
35:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's a good thing.
35:10
SPEAKER_02: And being a good husband, or you know, I mean, we have responsibilities as well, of course.
35:14
SPEAKER_02: But our responsibilities was to raise the kids, you know, different now.
35:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so society has changed significantly.
35:22
SPEAKER_02: So we know now that we know at least women, hopefully.
35:27
SPEAKER_02: We know that for us to be content in the relationship, yeah.
35:31
SPEAKER_02: Um men might need, I don't know what men need, I can speak for them, but they they their needs are different.
35:37
SPEAKER_02: So if they have good sex and maybe or watch TV, I'm stereotyping here.
35:42
SPEAKER_02: Forgive me, men.
35:43
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but for women, I we I can speak better for about that.
35:47
SPEAKER_02: We don't need only sex, we need a connection before sex.
35:52
SPEAKER_02: We need to be seen.
35:53
SPEAKER_02: Emotional, we need to to be um nurtured, nurtured.
35:57
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, thank you.
35:58
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, it's true, yeah and and that might be it's less functional, isn't it?
36:03
SPEAKER_00: It's it's less practical.
36:05
SPEAKER_00: It's those little moments where you're just you think, Oh my god, he's he saw me, he got it, he gets it.
36:11
SPEAKER_00: He needs he knows that I I need that cushion under my feet right now.
36:15
SPEAKER_00: I might and I'm not saying that I need a butler, but maybe I do need a butler.
36:19
SPEAKER_02: And you know, sometimes they don't know, they can they cannot preempt or read our minds, but we can we can express that, and that's that's how we use our power in a healthy way to say, like, look, uh, and not say, Oh, I would like it would be good, or so and so.
36:34
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
36:34
SPEAKER_02: You know, the other couple passive aggressive passive aggressive is to actually actually say, I would like um to to to experience this.
36:42
SPEAKER_02: I would like you to tell me I'm beautiful, yeah.
36:45
SPEAKER_02: It would be really lovely to hear.
36:47
SPEAKER_02: Can you give me that?
36:48
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, I know, but but then I taking taking responsibility instead of saying, like, oh, you never notice me, or you know, that's a very victim sort of thing, isn't it?
36:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and actually very draining for you as the victim in your own story to constantly be thinking, oh my god, no one ever listens, no one ever does these things, but you're not actually saying what you want.
37:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
37:14
SPEAKER_02: And the thing with victims, um victims, probably most victims, people who victimize themselves, they have been victims, or they might carry like a generational thing that where they were victims, and and it becomes like part of who they are, like a subpersonality, yeah, and it's really hard to let go.
37:35
SPEAKER_02: It's a big defining part of your character, then, isn't it?
37:39
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and sometimes you get rewarded from being a victim, you know.
37:42
SPEAKER_02: If I if I make my husband feel guilty for something he did, he might want to make it up, make up for me, and then buy me some diamonds, but it's unhealthy, yeah.
37:50
SPEAKER_02: So you have to really be willing to get out of the voice.
37:57
SPEAKER_02: Be willing to get out of the victim mode, which is hard if that's a comfort place for you to be, and that's how you get to getting attention, you're getting attention, yeah.
38:07
SPEAKER_02: So you break the cycle.
38:09
SPEAKER_02: So, how can we empower yourself?
38:11
SPEAKER_02: You know, and sometimes we women we think that empowering yourself is just having financial independence, doing what we like, but but being vulnerable in that place and say, like, look, I had uh, and I can uh this is a bit personal to me.
38:26
SPEAKER_02: I had a pattern of being a victim because my mom was always emotionally blackmailing um us, and now sometimes I have a tendency to do it with you, but I want that to change.
38:38
SPEAKER_02: Can you help me?
38:39
SPEAKER_02: And I and I can be empowered to say what I really want.
38:43
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, instead of thank you for sharing that.
38:46
SPEAKER_00: I feel a bit emotional, yeah.
38:48
SPEAKER_00: But that's such a big step for you, isn't it?
38:52
SPEAKER_00: And step outside the box and speak to the people around you to say I need your help to move past this.
38:59
SPEAKER_00: That's amazing.
39:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
39:00
SPEAKER_00: Oh, thanks, Laura.
39:01
SPEAKER_00: Psychosynthesis, then, yeah, is more than standard, well, textbook therapy, isn't it?
39:09
SPEAKER_00: So, what does it look like?
39:10
SPEAKER_00: So I've come to your office.
39:12
SPEAKER_02: Great question again.
39:14
SPEAKER_02: So the client doesn't really need unless they ask or they read my my website or watch the YouTube videos that are available.
39:24
SPEAKER_02: Um including my a friend of mine, um I'm doing with a friend um series of videos on psychosynthesis.
39:32
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
39:32
SPEAKER_02: Um the gift of psychosynthesis.
39:36
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we have like five videos there.
39:38
SPEAKER_02: We interview people who are well known in psychosynthesis, including um people who wrote books, um the um there's the author of a book called The Primal Wound.
39:50
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
39:50
SPEAKER_02: Which is the wound I'm digressing here, which is the the wound of non-being, you know, the not when you're not seeing as a child, or or you have traumatic events which yeah all of us had.
40:03
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
40:04
SPEAKER_02: But if we had traumatic events and you weren't held and supported and and looked after as you were supposed to be by your caregivers, and we have other authors and also the founder of the Institute of Psychosynthesis in England, so he features.
40:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he's one of yeah.
40:20
SPEAKER_02: So go and check it out.
40:21
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I will subscribe.
40:23
unknown: Thank you.
40:25
SPEAKER_02: So the difference is the clients might be, you know, I had clients um who are atheists, so they don't have to have a belief system to to to choose to be in therapy with me.
40:37
SPEAKER_02: But um, what I aim is is it's called psychosynthesis called the psychology of hope.
40:42
SPEAKER_02: Um I try to see the potential, not the where the person's happening, not where the person is at that moment, but what is the potential, yeah, you know, because it's so easy to see people usually 99% of people come to therapy because they are in a crisis.
40:59
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so it's easy to see the crisis and uh underground what what are the patterns, yeah, and you know, what your childhood traumas and your past history and your current history, but the psycho psychosynthesis invites us to see the potential, the the higher self and what it what it can be.
41:21
SPEAKER_02: What can you be?
41:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, if you are the real you, yeah.
41:25
SPEAKER_02: So if we take all the layers and and you and your element and you your best self, how does that look like?
41:32
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and that's fab.
41:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, wow, because also what uh when you were explaining psychotherapy, I was thinking actually we we seek help too late, don't we?
41:44
SPEAKER_00: We need to be a bit more proactive about these things and get to know ourselves before the trauma hits in a way that we can't see through it.
41:54
SPEAKER_02: Maybe.
41:55
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I yeah, I agree.
41:57
SPEAKER_02: I think especially couples therapy.
41:59
SPEAKER_02: So people go to couples therapy when it's already like they already it's broken.
42:03
SPEAKER_02: But you know, in a healthy if you were to be engaged and and really investing, because you invest in a career, you had to study so many years to to do a job well and to be accredited to you know, yeah, uh um studying five years plus to be a psychotherapist, yeah.
42:21
SPEAKER_02: Yet we enter a marriage without being prepared.
42:25
SPEAKER_02: That's true.
42:26
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so and then and then we want to fix when it's already too late.
42:30
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and you know, sometimes it's not too late, it's good to seek help anyway.
42:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, even even if the marriage is broken, so it's still the healing for you, and how you go forward you go on.
42:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, if we if we don't take those steps to get to know ourselves and do the the healing, you know, yeah, and the healing might be just having time for your it doesn't have to be all therapy, there are different ways, you know.
42:54
SPEAKER_02: It might be being your community, being in nature.
42:57
SPEAKER_02: Community is very important, you know, whatever you when you find your tribe and you feel you belong, not yeah, not just fitting in.
43:05
SPEAKER_00: And and I was gonna say, because that's hard to do, isn't it?
43:07
SPEAKER_00: And as we get older, we tell ourselves things that restrict us from entering spaces because we've decided, oh, that's not for me.
43:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but we don't know.
43:17
SPEAKER_02: But I'll give you an example of community and how powerful, how powerful it can be.
43:23
SPEAKER_02: The the pink link.
43:25
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, do you know is it's a networking um group.
43:29
SPEAKER_02: You go there with an aim.
43:31
SPEAKER_02: You want to get to be known and meet other people and take your business off, you know, to another another step, another level.
43:40
SPEAKER_02: That's that's the goal.
43:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
43:41
SPEAKER_02: But what does the trick is to see the mirror, other women empowering each other, is supporting each other's words of encouragement, yeah, is being able to sit there and tell them what you do, what do you bring to the table, and being witnessed.
43:57
SPEAKER_02: That's very, very healing and powerful.
44:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
44:00
SPEAKER_00: You know and you're sort of embodying it through osmosis, aren't you?
44:03
SPEAKER_00: Just by sharing space.
44:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
44:05
unknown: Yeah.
44:05
SPEAKER_02: You feel the energy, you know.
44:07
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
44:08
SPEAKER_02: So that's one example of how community and you know, it might not be pink link for everyone.
44:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
44:13
SPEAKER_00: But there will be something.
44:14
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there will be something.
44:16
SPEAKER_02: And it can be really scary.
44:17
SPEAKER_02: Some people don't like groups, don't like you know, I think I did I lost the question.
44:21
SPEAKER_00: What was the I was gonna say photosynthesis then?
44:25
SPEAKER_00: Not photosynthesis.
44:26
SPEAKER_00: I was on the osmosis part.
44:29
SPEAKER_00: Psychosynthesis.
44:31
SPEAKER_00: Well we all part of these scenarios.
44:33
SPEAKER_00: We are all part of the I'm gonna think I'm David Ashenborough, so we better bring me back.
44:40
unknown: Exactly.
44:41
SPEAKER_00: So psychosynthesis.
44:43
SPEAKER_00: I was saying, so if I walked into your office, what does that look like?
44:46
SPEAKER_02: So it's um it's for me to make a choice to put my any preconceptions I have, yeah, open you with um with an open heart.
44:57
SPEAKER_02: But also what I want to offer to to my clients is an experience of being seen and being witnessed and and compassion.
45:06
SPEAKER_02: So there might be like um let me think of an example that I won't expose any clients.
45:16
SPEAKER_00: Um we don't want any exclusives like that.
45:19
SPEAKER_02: So it might be um someone who is in a relationship with a family relationship, not with a romantic one, and this person might feel um no valued or not seen, you know.
45:33
SPEAKER_02: And when they come and share the experience, I can just by mirroring back and and in a way that they believe they feel that they matter, yeah, and and offer different perspective of of their experience.
45:48
SPEAKER_02: And so they they can they can declutter all that, you know, or get rid of all that noise and just be with themselves and access their feelings.
46:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and it doesn't it may not happen straight away.
46:02
SPEAKER_02: Some clients come and they are ready, you know, willing to talk.
46:07
SPEAKER_02: Some clients they talk very little when you ask, oh, you know, first first consultation I asked about history, so I have a base to uh how you you grew up, or how was your experience?
46:19
SPEAKER_02: Do you have siblings?
46:20
SPEAKER_02: So it can be quite telling, for example, if you're the youngest child or the oldest, you know, the responsibilities, how how that impacts you the way you you live your life, you know.
46:31
SPEAKER_02: If you're the oldest, are you the youngest or the oldest?
46:33
SPEAKER_02: I'm the youngest.
46:34
SPEAKER_02: So um being the youngest, uh, how do you feel like the do you get your voice across?
46:40
SPEAKER_02: Do you feel your needs?
46:41
SPEAKER_02: Are you infantilized?
46:43
SPEAKER_02: Um do you have to be the good girl and the the sweet one?
46:48
SPEAKER_02: So what does it mean being the youngest?
46:51
SPEAKER_00: In that family dynamic.
46:52
SPEAKER_02: In that family dynamic.
46:54
SPEAKER_02: So um what time um when you when you were little, was your family going through some financial difficulty or your mother got you?
47:02
SPEAKER_02: So these things, you you know, that's when the the subpersonalities start being formed.
47:07
SPEAKER_02: The subpersonalities, the subpersonalities, like for example, if you have like OCD traits and you are then I want things and I'm I'm not talking um I'll I'll change the O C D traits, like if you want things to be ordered, because it's not about diagnose, but yeah, if you want things to be on your way and you believe your way is the right way, yeah.
47:28
SPEAKER_02: So you might trace that back from a pla a time when you were a child that you felt very unsafe, yeah, and that was the way you could have some level of control.
47:38
SPEAKER_02: So it it's not because we're analyzing that, but it's easier if I hold that uh if I offer to my client that bifocal perspective.
47:49
SPEAKER_02: This is you now, and this is you as a child.
47:51
SPEAKER_02: So you might struggle to have compassion for yourself now, but if you think about the seven-year-old, you who are going through that, and you can really connect with that seven-year-old and have feelings of compassion for her.
48:04
SPEAKER_02: And so that was really tough.
48:06
SPEAKER_02: No seven-year-old should go through this, and then you can love yourself and then you release something.
48:13
SPEAKER_02: You you release something, and then you you you can be more gentle and and understand why you know it's your feelings.
48:20
SPEAKER_00: So actually, these onboarding forms give you a lot of information that we don't really know about because we're just like, Oh yeah, the second child.
48:30
SPEAKER_00: But actually, there's more to it.
48:32
SPEAKER_02: There's more to it, yeah.
48:33
SPEAKER_02: And you know, you you you think, oh, my siblings, we were all born from the same parents, we all had the same upbringing.
48:40
SPEAKER_02: No, you had different parents each time.
48:42
SPEAKER_00: You was you're different people, aren't you?
48:44
SPEAKER_00: Different people, yeah.
48:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, oh fantastic.
48:47
SPEAKER_00: So when we talk about the higher self, what do we mean?
48:50
SPEAKER_00: The higher self has just the self.
48:53
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
48:53
SPEAKER_00: Has anyone come to your office saying I want to be my higher self, Laura?
48:57
SPEAKER_02: Take me there.
48:58
SPEAKER_02: Not quite with those words, but they do say, like, I want to be to um be better, I want to heal, I want to to, you know, I want to be better for my partner.
49:08
SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
49:08
SPEAKER_02: You know, rather than for themselves.
49:11
SPEAKER_00: So that is proactive, isn't it?
49:13
SPEAKER_02: There is a recognition that's angle.
49:15
SPEAKER_02: No, you have to use your will.
49:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
49:17
SPEAKER_02: So you know, did you know there's a lot of scammers who tackle therapists?
49:22
SPEAKER_02: So sometimes you get uh yes, it's shocking.
49:25
SPEAKER_02: Uh, you I get emails from someone, um David Johnson person, so you know, like names them just random names, yeah.
49:35
SPEAKER_02: And then they say, Oh, I want to I'm looking for a therapist for my daughter, for my mother-in-law, and you're the best one in the area, and you're the only one.
49:45
SPEAKER_02: I said, Well, ask her to uh the first time I answered is can she contact me?
49:49
SPEAKER_02: Can they contact me?
49:51
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, let them so and then I realized that it was it was uh I got few emails, and then I asked other therapists, and this is quite a common thing.
50:01
SPEAKER_02: Really?
50:01
SPEAKER_02: So it's absolutely necessary that your will is engaged, you are the one who choose to do it, no one is doing it for you, and I'm not gonna do it for you.
50:10
SPEAKER_00: No, exactly.
50:11
SPEAKER_00: It's not gonna happen, then is it?
50:13
SPEAKER_02: So you do that's bizarre, yeah.
50:15
SPEAKER_02: Anyway, so that's a red flag, you know, and you see oh if I'm contacted to book therapy for someone else's no, this someone else has to contact me.
50:26
SPEAKER_02: So you absolutely need your will to to and you see so like the the clients who who are ready, you don't need to send a reminder for them.
50:35
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they they show up, they do the will, they yeah, yeah, they commit, they commit, you know, and they don't cancel sessions.
50:44
SPEAKER_02: They that that engagement is necessary, you know.
50:47
SPEAKER_02: You cannot expect otherwise you come with not intention to change if you expect someone else to save you.
50:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, I get that.
50:55
SPEAKER_00: What kind of tools do you use?
50:57
SPEAKER_00: Like, do you have forms or things, homework that you give people?
51:03
SPEAKER_02: So um I love your questions.
51:07
SPEAKER_02: I had um I had Russian dolls, but I changed for nesting dolls because I don't think it's politically correct to have Russian dolls anymore.
51:14
SPEAKER_02: But if you think about this one thing I use, I don't use many tools.
51:18
SPEAKER_02: One tool I use that with the nesting dolls, and I can show the clients how the self shows, like for example, the the the hives shame I don't have the them here to show this you.
51:30
SPEAKER_02: So the the biggest doll is the self, and all the others are the parts of you, so it can be your critical self, your people pleaser.
51:38
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, people pleaser is very common, yeah, because we we learn to get love from adapting, smile at everyone, smiling, what what gives gives us brownie points when we were children.
51:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we keep repeating, so you have the other ones, and then you and I can demonstrate to the client how uh the small parts try to pretend this is you, how you you connect, how who you know that self, the bigger doll, being on the driver's seat.
52:09
SPEAKER_02: So you can so this is the CEO.
52:11
SPEAKER_02: Like I let's use that analogy better.
52:13
SPEAKER_02: So if you think about a uh company, yeah, the the biggest um the tallest doll being the self or the CEO, so they are in charge, they are the ones are working for them, and they used to work really hard to protect them, yeah.
52:28
SPEAKER_02: But they sometimes take over, but they are not in charge, so they have to know they are not in charge.
52:33
SPEAKER_02: So that's one tool.
52:34
SPEAKER_00: That's a really good analogy.
52:35
SPEAKER_00: I like that.
52:36
SPEAKER_02: I'm the CEO of my life, yes, you're the or you're the driver's seat, or you're the the um the con conductor of the orchestra, that's a good one as well.
52:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that is a good one.
52:46
SPEAKER_00: So you have to be all yeah, um all over the different parts of yourself and keep it in check, yeah.
52:53
SPEAKER_02: And I do guided meditation as well, so sometimes spontaneous according to what is coming up to to the client if they if they are struggling to self-regulate, if they are a bit anxious, sometimes you know, to ground them.
53:08
SPEAKER_02: I can offer some guided meditation, like five minutes, yeah.
53:11
SPEAKER_02: And and there are some uh specific psychosynthesis meditation that you know you walk into in the woods, yeah.
53:20
SPEAKER_02: Oh usually involves nature's the guided meditation, yeah.
53:24
SPEAKER_02: So some yeah, people can access the subconscious through the meditation.
53:29
SPEAKER_02: Not every client is open to it.
53:31
SPEAKER_02: Okay, so sometimes if I see that it can be useful, I offer, and some most of the clients say yes, but some of them say actually no, not interested, yeah.
53:43
SPEAKER_02: That's fine, yeah.
53:44
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
53:44
SPEAKER_02: Because it is about them asking what they need.
53:47
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I rather them say no than say what they think I want to hear.
53:51
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
53:53
SPEAKER_00: You just reminded me actually, you're a trained yoga instructor, aren't you?
53:57
SPEAKER_02: Yes, I'm sound sound healing.
53:59
SPEAKER_02: Sound healing, yeah.
54:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
54:01
SPEAKER_02: So this is another tool, but I don't use in my psychotherapy my psychosynthesis practice.
54:07
SPEAKER_02: Um but uh the yoga is is amazing.
54:11
SPEAKER_02: The yoga and sound healing, I absolutely love it.
54:13
SPEAKER_02: It's like my baby.
54:15
SPEAKER_02: Oh so at the moment I teach three private group groups elderly.
54:20
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
54:20
SPEAKER_02: I teach in a nursing home for a group che yoga, and I teach in a in a residential home for retirement, residential home in Grange.
54:30
SPEAKER_02: And um so I adapted, I've been a yoga qualified yoga teacher for 10 years, but it was always like something I did on the side, apart from you know, my nursing career being the main thing.
54:44
SPEAKER_02: But now I I love it because I do a lot of it's chai yoga, but I connect a lot with the breathing and I bring elements of psychosynthesis.
54:54
SPEAKER_02: Oh, okay, yeah.
54:55
SPEAKER_02: Like uh, one example, it's you know, when we do these, like we open the cactus and then we hug ourselves.
55:02
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I invite them sometimes to hug their inner child or then the child they were once.
55:07
SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's lovely.
55:08
SPEAKER_02: So it brings them to connect.
55:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
55:13
SPEAKER_02: That's really nice.
55:14
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and then once a month we had yesterday actually, and then once a month we have coffee and tea after.
55:19
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and then I use like um uh an element of um so yesterday, for example, there was one new lady, and then I invited uh so she didn't know all the other participants, and I invited them to say their name and something they are proud of or ashamed of.
55:40
SPEAKER_02: Okay, and ashamed of was to for us to hold them with compassion, not to shame them, yeah.
55:45
SPEAKER_02: You know, yeah, but most people shared something they were proud of, yeah.
55:49
SPEAKER_02: So it was quite nice because the group knows each other already, so it's a very healing and you know, community vibe.
55:56
SPEAKER_02: So, and it was a really good way to welcome the new person, as she felt she could see through the soul of each person in something personal, yeah.
56:06
SPEAKER_02: So my yoga and sound and the gong is is like a deeper way to get into meditation for people who struggle to meditate, it just takes you there quite as in because you're focusing on the sound of the gong.
56:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I can offer you a session.
56:23
SPEAKER_00: I would love to.
56:24
SPEAKER_00: I actually found the voucher you gave me in 2024.
56:27
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I couldn't book a date, you've come for a session.
56:31
SPEAKER_00: I'd love to, yeah.
56:32
SPEAKER_00: That sounds ace.
56:33
SPEAKER_00: I love that like sound baths and all that kind of stuff.
56:36
SPEAKER_00: It's just amazing how it sort of vibrates through your body and with your practice.
56:41
SPEAKER_00: Have you done it, Salhili?
56:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, oh it's beautiful.
56:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love it.
56:45
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so this is uh tools, and then and then you know, during the yoga classes, I encourage them to find those spaces because you can't rely just on one once a week session, you do it together.
56:58
SPEAKER_02: How do you have that curiosity about yourself?
57:01
SPEAKER_02: But then I can be more proactive than in the therapy, because in the therapy room, I it's it's um the client has to feel that they are empowered.
57:10
SPEAKER_02: They can so you know, like CBT, like um uh for example, would tell you do this, do breathing exercise.
57:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yes, sorry, yeah, uh cognitive behavior therapy would tell you tools.
57:21
SPEAKER_02: So, but my clients they they might not want the tools, they come for to be listened and to how to be met with compassion and and also the element of will, you know, where they are and how they can um take a step further because you can stay on the story and the the whatever is going on, but how can you do one small step to to towards you know your healing or yeah, moving forward in your life?
57:51
SPEAKER_02: But in the yoga and gong, I can offer tools because you know it's a different yeah.
57:57
SPEAKER_02: So have you got clients who then transition to become yoga students or not really because I have close groups, yeah, because my focus on the is on the therapy.
58:08
SPEAKER_02: So the yoga groups is is something I enjoy doing and is my gift to the community.
58:13
SPEAKER_02: Oh that's so nice, yeah.
58:14
SPEAKER_02: So it's something that I'm not focused on, like uh as a career thing, is something that I feel I have to do for my personal development as well.
58:23
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I may think I'm helping them, but you're but I'm helping myself, yeah.
58:28
SPEAKER_00: You're getting practice out of it as well.
58:31
SPEAKER_00: So psychosynthesis, what's next for your psychosynthesis?
58:35
SPEAKER_00: Are you still are you have you finished training?
58:38
SPEAKER_02: So I finished, I'm I'm about to finish the counseling part, so I'm just submitting all everything.
58:44
SPEAKER_02: I just need the okay.
58:45
SPEAKER_02: So I'm already practicing because you practice under supervision.
58:48
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
58:49
SPEAKER_02: So I see clients privately in my um consulting room in Noveston.
58:55
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
58:55
SPEAKER_02: And but I'm under supervision, so which means if I have a new client or all my clients, to every six sessions I discuss minimum, yeah.
59:06
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I discuss some aspects of my relationship with my client, okay, with a supervisor, qualified supervisor from the Institute of Psychosynthesis.
59:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
59:16
SPEAKER_02: So which is useful, all therapists do that, but um as a trainee, the requirement is more strict.
59:23
SPEAKER_02: So it helps to to see the bigger picture and see, you know, to be supported.
59:29
SPEAKER_02: So so I I'm about to finish now the counselling part.
59:33
SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna pause you there.
59:34
SPEAKER_02: Look at that!
59:37
SPEAKER_00: It just took my breath away.
59:39
SPEAKER_00: So is this where you go swimming?
59:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a bit further where I go swimming.
59:43
SPEAKER_02: It's a bit muddy.
59:44
SPEAKER_02: This is beautiful, it's lovely, isn't it?
59:46
SPEAKER_00: Goodness me, I'm sorry to interrupt you as you started talking, but this is stunning.
59:51
SPEAKER_00: Look how still the water is today.
59:54
SPEAKER_00: It's a little bit cold, isn't it?
59:56
SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm kind of feeling cold, but and it's quiet as well, isn't it?
1:00:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you can just hear the water.
1:00:03
SPEAKER_02: How lovely.
1:00:04
SPEAKER_00: Okay, back to you and the other one, yeah.
1:00:06
SPEAKER_00: Supervisors.
1:00:07
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so um, and then I carry on another academic year.
1:00:12
SPEAKER_02: So I'm going to the fifth year now to qualify as a psychotherapist.
1:00:17
SPEAKER_02: Oh, so it's uh it's more in-depth, you know.
1:00:20
SPEAKER_02: You can the depth of complexity is is a bit deeper.
1:00:25
SPEAKER_00: Sort of always worked in healthcare, I guess, whether that's physical healthcare or mental health care.
1:00:32
SPEAKER_00: How do you protect yourself from the things you're seeing and not take it home or take it home but heal from it, I guess?
1:00:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, another interesting question.
1:00:43
SPEAKER_02: I wasn't quite aware of that when you know I started, and it's just life we just carry on.
1:00:51
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:00:51
SPEAKER_02: So we do take things home sometimes, it's inevitable.
1:00:55
SPEAKER_02: You you're human.
1:00:56
SPEAKER_02: And my last my last job in nursing was in a nursing home, so you get more attached to people because you know them.
1:01:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:01:04
SPEAKER_02: Working as a nurse, there you know them for a long time is different than in hospital, they come and go.
1:01:11
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:01:11
SPEAKER_02: So when someone dies, it sets you deeper.
1:01:14
SPEAKER_02: But it's hard.
1:01:15
SPEAKER_02: So I I I have a a faith and it helps me.
1:01:19
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:01:20
SPEAKER_02: Spiritual practice helps me.
1:01:22
SPEAKER_02: And it has changed over the years, you know.
1:01:24
SPEAKER_02: I grew up as a Catholic and I rebelled against, I walked away from religion, thinking the patriarchy, all this these things.
1:01:32
SPEAKER_02: And then I um, you know, got into philosophy and which is not a religion, it's philosophy, but uh but Buddhism, yeah, and I went to India to do yoga courses, and so I experienced different religions and philosophies.
1:01:47
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:01:48
SPEAKER_02: But since I moved to Grange three years ago, a bit before that actually, I've been going to church more.
1:01:54
SPEAKER_02: Okay, yeah, and I thought I made peace with the things I don't like about the religion, Christianity as a religion, yeah, as a woman.
1:02:03
SPEAKER_02: But um, you know, I believe in Christ and I think he's wonderful, he's you know, um, so I pray.
1:02:09
SPEAKER_02: That's one thing.
1:02:11
SPEAKER_02: That's quite a journey, isn't it?
1:02:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
1:02:13
SPEAKER_02: Coming back to the roots as well, you know, where else I I was from, and yeah, Brazil is quite a uh religious country in very controversial ways, but it's another story.
1:02:22
SPEAKER_02: So uh praying and having a faith helps, but also I journal.
1:02:28
SPEAKER_02: Okay, and my yoga practice is very important, it's a cleansing, it's a cleansing process.
1:02:34
SPEAKER_02: I really notice the difference when I don't do it.
1:02:36
SPEAKER_02: And funnily enough, wasn't the first thing I said because it's so ingrained in me.
1:02:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but this is just what I need.
1:02:43
SPEAKER_02: I need, I feel it, I feel tired, I feel more emotional if I don't practice yoga.
1:02:48
SPEAKER_02: That is part of it every day.
1:02:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I don't do every day.
1:02:52
SPEAKER_02: I don't do four times a week.
1:02:55
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, to to know.
1:02:56
SPEAKER_02: So at least a little, yeah.
1:02:57
SPEAKER_02: Sometimes I just do some stretches, but yeah.
1:02:59
SPEAKER_02: And the other thing is my my journaling practice changed recently when I interviewed Molly Brown, who's a famous personality in psychosynthesis.
1:03:10
SPEAKER_02: Oh, okay.
1:03:10
SPEAKER_02: She's um she's in her 80s and she was a student of Roberto Sagioli.
1:03:16
SPEAKER_02: Oh, okay, wow.
1:03:16
SPEAKER_02: In in Italy.
1:03:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:03:19
SPEAKER_02: And she said one of the things he suggested was to write letters to God.
1:03:24
SPEAKER_02: Oh, really?
1:03:25
SPEAKER_02: So I used to journal, but I it's sometimes I my my flow wasn't quite.
1:03:30
SPEAKER_02: And I start doing I start doing what she suggested from that she learned from him.
1:03:36
SPEAKER_02: So I I write my journal, like if I'm writing letters speaking to God.
1:03:40
SPEAKER_02: So it just opens up my intuition.
1:03:43
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:03:44
SPEAKER_02: Things come that I didn't I didn't really thought it was quite.
1:03:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:03:50
SPEAKER_02: Um, so that has been and and I do like the journal I'm doing now is a creative one.
1:03:56
SPEAKER_02: So I draw as well, quite freestyle with crayons on the top of the writing.
1:04:02
SPEAKER_02: So that this is quite new.
1:04:05
SPEAKER_02: I've been doing that for the past six months.
1:04:07
SPEAKER_02: But um, yeah, if that the creative part and specifically to God, but it's my favorite kind of journal journaling so far.
1:04:15
SPEAKER_02: Oh no, but it the the self-healing, the self-care practice changed sometimes.
1:04:20
SPEAKER_02: Sometimes, if I come from a uh difficult shift, I I communicate to my husband, look, I had a tough day, we just threw it in or out, and can I have a bath?
1:04:32
SPEAKER_02: I I'm a shower person, yeah.
1:04:34
SPEAKER_02: But sometimes I get some epsom salt and I know this is what I need.
1:04:38
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so yeah, you know, we're not always available to able to have something more complex or go for a walk.
1:04:47
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, yeah, but there are things you can do quite soon.
1:04:50
SPEAKER_02: You can, you know.
1:04:51
SPEAKER_00: And also that's a good cue for the people around you, is that actually asking for what you need as well.
1:04:59
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
1:05:00
SPEAKER_02: So and and I can see the tendency sometimes, you know, you had a stressful day and you come, oh, I need a glass of wine.
1:05:06
SPEAKER_02: And I do that as well, don't get me wrong.
1:05:08
SPEAKER_02: In the bath in the bath or a glass of champagne for everyone.
1:05:14
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, sometimes it is like, can you put the champagne?
1:05:17
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
1:05:18
SPEAKER_02: No, I'm not a posh, but I have a really good source of uh champagne that's quite affordable.
1:05:23
SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah.
1:05:24
SPEAKER_02: Champagne from Mamadi.
1:05:26
SPEAKER_02: Oh, from Maudi.
1:05:28
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
1:05:32
SPEAKER_00: So actually, I'm going to candle on Friday when I swing by.
1:05:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I teach proseco after I found the room.
1:05:40
SPEAKER_00: Okay, I'll definitely self care and healing tips, but yeah.
1:05:47
SPEAKER_00: I'll do proseco, not proseco champagne.
1:05:49
SPEAKER_02: So yeah, it might be as simple as asking for what I need then, you know.
1:05:54
SPEAKER_02: Can I eat a a healthy meal?
1:05:56
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, or can I or treat myself sometimes.
1:06:00
SPEAKER_02: Give him he gave him giving myself a reward.
1:06:02
SPEAKER_02: I don't want ad um advertise like spending money as a no no as a healing, but i you know if you do it with a purpose yeah and if it's a ritual, it's a rituals have are quite powerful ways of healing, you know.
1:06:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:06:17
SPEAKER_00: And it's nice to sort of I think we forget to gift ourselves and say thanks to ourselves, like you've done really well today.
1:06:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well done, you've been nice to everyone.
1:06:28
SPEAKER_02: Yes, you know.
1:06:29
SPEAKER_02: Well that that's a really good point, you know, to say, Oh, you did your best today and then you smash this, thank you.
1:06:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
1:06:35
SPEAKER_00: Because you you it's a choice, isn't it?
1:06:37
SPEAKER_00: We all have the choice to oh wow, this is beautiful.
1:06:41
SPEAKER_00: Like you just can't just come up this bit and suddenly you're facing it.
1:06:45
SPEAKER_02: This is this is my favorite when you I like the one we stopped before, but I love this.
1:06:49
SPEAKER_02: This is stunning.
1:06:51
SPEAKER_02: So you just come up this little path and it's just there.
1:06:54
SPEAKER_02: So we go for swimming just on the side there.
1:06:56
SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
1:06:57
SPEAKER_00: Oh Lara, I can see why you love it.
1:06:59
SPEAKER_02: Are you from this part of the the world?
1:07:01
SPEAKER_02: Do you you you yeah?
1:07:03
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I lived in Alvaston for a long time.
1:07:05
SPEAKER_00: Well, a long time for me.
1:07:07
SPEAKER_00: Which is like three or four years.
1:07:09
SPEAKER_00: I used to work in Barrow and so Alvaston's just beautiful, I love it.
1:07:13
SPEAKER_00: I love the town, I love the people, all the festivals, so I know the area quite well.
1:07:19
SPEAKER_00: But in terms of walking, I tend to go Yeah, show you something you didn't know.
1:07:25
SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, I tell everyone like this whole podcast is very self-serving because I get to do loads of new walks.
1:07:32
SPEAKER_00: This would be great to see you.
1:07:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and take them off, and this is just beautiful.
1:07:36
SPEAKER_00: What were you going to say before I interrupted you?
1:07:38
SPEAKER_00: Because I was saying about saying thanks to yourself, showing yourself a bit of gratitude.
1:07:44
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:07:44
SPEAKER_02: I think I think you you you pointed something really important to have the the kind words to ourselves, you know.
1:07:52
SPEAKER_02: You you could be the kindest person ever to your best friend who you'd be a friend.
1:07:59
SPEAKER_02: Beyonce is already Beyonce Obviously.
1:08:04
SPEAKER_02: Um but can you can you do the same to yourself?
1:08:08
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, sometimes we're very harsh.
1:08:11
SPEAKER_00: How we talked about that in a dialogue is really important, isn't it?
1:08:14
SPEAKER_00: Yes, because you do find yourself thinking, oh my god, I'm so stupid.
1:08:18
SPEAKER_00: Oh, you're an idiot.
1:08:19
SPEAKER_00: Why did you do that?
1:08:20
SPEAKER_02: And words have power, so much power and energy in words, so you have to be really mindful, and even things we say like I always do this, I'm so stupid, um you know, I'm not lucky for whatever, you know, just even if you don't truly believe, just choose, be be selective with your words, especially towards yourself.
1:08:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely.
1:08:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's all a choice.
1:08:47
SPEAKER_00: We we wake up and we we get to choose what kind of day we're gonna have.
1:08:52
SPEAKER_00: What happens in that day is also control.
1:08:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but how we respond to it.
1:08:58
SPEAKER_02: You know, yeah.
1:08:58
SPEAKER_02: Like when what what we were saying at the beginning, when you you get to that place that you communicate with the with God or the higher self or spirit, you know, you you you make an agreement.
1:09:09
SPEAKER_02: So my intention is this.
1:09:11
SPEAKER_02: So the universe is is aligned.
1:09:13
SPEAKER_02: Okay, so this is what she she's up to today.
1:09:16
SPEAKER_02: So it's there's more chance, so you're co-creating, yeah.
1:09:19
SPEAKER_02: So you empowering uh you yourself into the the creation of your day in your life, yeah.
1:09:25
SPEAKER_02: Instead of like handling it.
1:09:27
SPEAKER_02: I love that co-creating, yeah.
1:09:29
SPEAKER_02: Handling it to chance, yeah, and you know, letting it see see what happens.
1:09:35
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because actually we're holding the pen, aren't we?
1:09:37
SPEAKER_00: So we get to decide that, yeah.
1:09:39
SPEAKER_00: But we don't I was gonna say accountability, but we don't take that chance.
1:09:44
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:09:45
SPEAKER_02: And there are things we do have control, and uh and I don't even like to say control is how we we have an input, we have a say another example, uh how we we say Yeah, we're fine.
1:09:55
SPEAKER_02: We another example not related to exactly what we're talking uh in terms of well-being, but no, I I guess it is related.
1:10:04
SPEAKER_02: Like in the past we used to believe that it our genes, our DNA was the most important thing that was set in stone.
1:10:11
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:10:11
SPEAKER_02: So if my uh grandparents had cancer, it's very likely that they'll have, or if that my my family has a history of diabetes, and now we know that diabetes type 2, for example, is very much down to you, really, you know, preventable, you know, it's not even preventable.
1:10:30
SPEAKER_02: And so your choices now the epigenetics show us that actually even your DNA can change.
1:10:38
SPEAKER_02: You can you can change your genes from the way you think, from what you eat, from your habits.
1:10:43
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so this is so empowering.
1:10:45
SPEAKER_02: Before we just like that's how it is, and now we know that a lot of it is really interesting as a predisposition to something, but there is a lot that is in your hands, yeah.
1:10:56
SPEAKER_00: This whole thing of oh, yeah, you know, the last three generations of my, I don't know, paternal side had heart disease.
1:11:04
SPEAKER_00: So I'm definitely gonna get it.
1:11:06
SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna eat all the cakes.
1:11:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you're just shooting the thing.
1:11:13
SPEAKER_02: Because you do you just surrender, you're ending your happening and then most likely you're right.
1:11:20
SPEAKER_02: So either if you believe you're right, and if you don't believe you're right, yeah, yeah, exactly.
1:11:25
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I love that.
1:11:29
SPEAKER_02: Well, thank you, Laura.
1:11:30
SPEAKER_02: That's been amazing.
1:11:31
SPEAKER_02: Thank you, thank you for the invitation and your lovely chat.
1:11:35
SPEAKER_02: It felt so natural, so organic.
1:11:37
SPEAKER_00: Oh good, you yeah, yeah, keep it flowing, keep it moving.
1:11:42
SPEAKER_00: I love it.
1:11:45
SPEAKER_00: And that is a wrap on this walk.
1:11:48
SPEAKER_00: What a conversation, what a lady, and what a view.
1:11:53
SPEAKER_00: I mean honestly, hi damn Tan, you did not disappoint.
1:11:58
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much to Laura for the walk and for being so open, so generous, and so grounded in herself throughout.
1:12:08
SPEAKER_00: There's something rare about someone who can speak about the inner workings of the human psyche without ever making you feel like the case study.
1:12:19
SPEAKER_00: So Laura did just that and she just meets you where you are, and it was wonderful.
1:12:26
SPEAKER_00: So, let me show a few things that are staying with me from today's chat because they were a lot.
1:12:33
SPEAKER_00: The first is the idea that helping others has always been in some way about helping ourselves.
1:12:41
SPEAKER_00: Lara said it so simply.
1:12:43
SPEAKER_00: I used to think I was helping people, but mostly I was helping myself to grow and expand.
1:12:50
SPEAKER_00: I think many of us, especially us who are drawn to caring roles or even just to listening, to showing up for people, we sometimes use that as a reason to not look inward, as if being useful to other people exempts us from the hard work of knowing ourselves.
1:13:10
SPEAKER_00: So Laura's done both, and she's probably gonna say the two aren't as separate as we think.
1:13:16
SPEAKER_00: The second thing is the idea of seeking help before the crisis.
1:13:22
SPEAKER_00: She said something that really hit home: that we invest years studying for a career, but we walk into a marriage, into parenthood, into the most intimate relationships of our lives, completely unprepared.
1:13:37
SPEAKER_00: And then we only reach for support when things are already broken.
1:13:42
SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of us recognise that pattern.
1:13:45
SPEAKER_00: I know I certainly do.
1:13:47
SPEAKER_00: And then, of course, there's the inner child work, which I'll be honest, going into this conversation, I thought I totally understood until I realized I didn't totally understand it.
1:13:57
SPEAKER_00: The way Lara described it, that sometimes we can't access compassion for ourselves, but we can access it for the small child we once were.
1:14:07
SPEAKER_00: That's such a gentle way in.
1:14:10
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't ask you to be kind to your adult self straight away, which honestly feels impossible, especially on a really hard day.
1:14:18
SPEAKER_00: It just asks you to look at your seven-year-old self and feel what you feel and let that be the start.
1:14:27
SPEAKER_00: So here are a few questions to take away with you.
1:14:30
SPEAKER_00: No pressure to answer them now, maybe just let them walk alongside you for a bit.
1:14:37
SPEAKER_00: What story are you telling yourself about who you are?
1:14:41
SPEAKER_00: And did you choose it or did someone else hand it to you?
1:14:48
SPEAKER_00: Is there a version of you, younger, softer, or perhaps more frightened, who is still waiting for a little compassion?
1:14:59
SPEAKER_00: And when did you last ask yourself, what do I actually need right now?
1:15:05
SPEAKER_00: Not what does everyone else need from me, what do I need?
1:15:11
SPEAKER_00: If this episode moved you and I really hope something in it did, please take a moment to leave a review.
1:15:18
SPEAKER_00: It does make such a difference to how many people find this podcast, and every single review is read by me.
1:15:25
SPEAKER_00: And on occasion I will turn it into a social media post because you know we all love a bit of content.
1:15:32
SPEAKER_00: Share this one, please, to someone you know who needs to hear it.
1:15:38
SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's the person who never stops giving, maybe it's the one who says they're fine when they're not, and maybe, and I say this with a lot of love, maybe it's you.
1:15:51
SPEAKER_00: Lara's details are in the short show notes.
1:15:54
SPEAKER_00: Please go and find her, she is brilliant.
1:15:58
SPEAKER_00: I'm Sakania.
1:15:59
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for walking with us today, and until next time, keep moving, keep listening, and keep being as kind to yourself as you would be to your very best friend.