Latest / The Refrigeration Mentor Podcast / Episode 269. An Inside Look at Tech Support with Premnath Kangatharan of Danfoss

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Episode 269. An Inside Look at Tech Support with Premnath Kangatharan of Danfoss · The Refrigeration Mentor Podcast

• 0:01
  Speaker: Welcome back to the refrigeration mentor podcast, where we're sharing technical and personal development knowledge got a great guest today. Prenath, Ken Gothren. And we're going to dive into support. Technical support, product support, supporting your customer, supporting internal teams. This is very, very important. This is what we do as technicians day in, day out, supporting our teammates, supporting our teams, supporting our customers. And it's a lot of work
• 0:01
  and understanding the type of support and the different support you have to give different people. It's like when you're talking to a higher level management versus talking to the department manager, the department manager, they really understand what's going on with their system. When you talk to the store manager, they're worried about the whole store.
• 0:01
  We dive into that. We also dive into understanding the root cause, the facts that you need to give the support lines to really help them. Help you support your customers love this conversation because we get into some technical support we get into mindset This is an awesome conversation super excited that you're here
• 0:02
  We dive into that. We also dive into understanding the root cause, the facts that you need to give the support lines to really help them. Help you support your customers love this conversation because we get into some technical support we get into mindset This is an awesome conversation super excited that you're here
• 0:02
  if you haven't been to the refrigeration mentor website go check it out We got some new features. We got some new courses coming out. We got the refrigeration mentor academy launch We got the community launch So if you haven't been to refrigeration mentor. com lately You Head to the refrigeration mentor.
• 0:02
  com find out more about our community at the launch of the refrigeration mentor community because this here is going to be a game changer for you. If you're looking to grow, if you're looking to get better, if you're looking to invest in yourself, this is what refrigeration mentor community is all about. Now let's get a conversation going.
• 0:02
  Premnath: Good morning, Trevor a privilege and honor to, to be in one of your podcasts here. I use you as my mentor for refrigeration. So it's, it's a great honor to be on your show.
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  Trevor: Oh, well, I've seen a ton of your videos. So thank you. But I see a ton of your videos too, man. You do such a great job out there. Share knowledge and help and support products and customers. I see a ton of your support videos, you know, and product support and, so the way it works is that you have your frontline team that are supporting your customers like your end users And the technicians that are out there Yeah, and all those questions come in if they can't answer any of those questions then that comes to you and your team
• 0:03
  Trevor: Oh, well, I've seen a ton of your videos. So thank you. But I see a ton of your videos too, man. You do such a great job out there. Share knowledge and help and support products and customers. I see a ton of your support videos, you know, and product support and, so the way it works is that you have your frontline team that are supporting your customers like your end users And the technicians that are out there Yeah, and all those questions come in if they can't answer any of those questions then that comes to you and your team
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  Premnath: Yes.
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  Most of the time it's something where we have to maybe rebuild the setup that the customer has with some simulation probes and, and sensors. And then we try to replicate the issue and see, okay, where did the customer go wrong? I mean, most of the time it's like a detective work actually.
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  So you have to understand from the customer's point of view, how did he see the screens? How did he go on with it and, and, and, and, and what steps did he go through to. Get this screen or error message or whatever he got. So it's, it's, it's most of the time is an analyzing task. Luckily in the new system manager, it was more difficult before because you had to predict many things and there were lots of different opportunities, but in the new, 800A front end that we have now, you have these diagnostic locks that are, it's a great tool for us to analyze the issue, what happened inside the unit itself and see, okay, why did it do like it did?
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  So you have to understand from the customer's point of view, how did he see the screens? How did he go on with it and, and, and, and, and what steps did he go through to. Get this screen or error message or whatever he got. So it's, it's, it's most of the time is an analyzing task. Luckily in the new system manager, it was more difficult before because you had to predict many things and there were lots of different opportunities, but in the new, 800A front end that we have now, you have these diagnostic locks that are, it's a great tool for us to analyze the issue, what happened inside the unit itself and see, okay, why did it do like it did?
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  And then why is the customer seeing what he did? Or maybe we can also see what did the customer. Press or change in order for this to happen. And then we can either guide the, the, the, the customers in the right direction to say, do it like this, or, or change your steps to, to, to some other steps, or if it's a bug, or if it's something that we need to improve on, and then we will add it to our backlog that that will be part of the next upgrades.
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  Trevor: Yeah. Cause that's important because there's always learning curves because with these new controllers, there's so much in them. And then it takes time, you know, it takes time to learn them. So it could be a customer thing, or it could be something new coming out in there because you guys are always improving and changing stuff.
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  Trevor: Yeah. Cause that's important because there's always learning curves because with these new controllers, there's so much in them. And then it takes time, you know, it takes time to learn them. So it could be a customer thing, or it could be something new coming out in there because you guys are always improving and changing stuff.
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  And, and then when you do a whole shift, cause that, when did the 800 come out a few years ago? The 800A? Yeah,
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  Premnath: it's maybe it's been around for a while. I would say maybe it's more than more
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  Trevor: than five years. Okay. So it's been out for a while, but even over five years and there's thousands and thousands of them out there, there's still things that people haven't used.
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  You know what I mean? People still haven't used those. Because some of
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  Premnath: it, some of it is really tough to, to get through, but some of it is, is most like, I mean, we tried to make it as easy as possible without, I mean, if you take calculations, for instance, some of the calculations that I've seen customers make, even, even I I'm amazed by.
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  By how much they do with these units. So it's not, I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's not intended like that. It was supposed to be a simple calculation, but they made this huge, tremendous calculation script that, that, that works on these units here. And, and we try to do it as simple as possible, but it's always different.
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  By how much they do with these units. So it's not, I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's not intended like that. It was supposed to be a simple calculation, but they made this huge, tremendous calculation script that, that, that works on these units here. And, and we try to do it as simple as possible, but it's always different.
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  I mean, when you, when you are used to drive on the right side hand, you, it's a totally different thing to drive on the left side,
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  all
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  new products, all new Faces, they are different, even though most of them do the same thing. You just have to get used to the new, even if you take in, in, in, in in Europe, most of the products, they were based on the old AK two 45 and seven twenties, if you, if you know them, no, I don't, I don't, I don't think they're that much used in us, but in Europe, they were a lot and, and, and.
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  Changing the customer's mindset from this. Line of, of workflow to this 800, which is based on the 255 was was also a big task. We had we had trainings that we did earlier where we went through different areas and regions. I remember we did in Eastern Europe, Southern Europe, Central Europe.
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  And actually in Spain as well, Southern Europe again, and then we did China, Australia. Everywhere where we had to convert and walk through with the, with the customer. I mean, sorry, our internal colleagues, this was an internal training to train them, to train the customers. So we did that for the, so it's always a change when you have to shift from one mindset to another one.
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  And actually in Spain as well, Southern Europe again, and then we did China, Australia. Everywhere where we had to convert and walk through with the, with the customer. I mean, sorry, our internal colleagues, this was an internal training to train them, to train the customers. So we did that for the, so it's always a change when you have to shift from one mindset to another one.
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  Yeah. Trevor: And that's even internally too, because, you know, They're going out to talk to the external, but it's hard for change inside an organization, you know, exactly. When I used to work at copeland that was the thing when something new or a change happened It was first we get you got to help the us internally to realize these changes and to sometimes You don't, most people don't like change, right?
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  And we don't, we're like comfortable because I get like that myself. You know what I mean? It's hard, change is hard, but it's just to get them on board to understand, okay, we have to make this shift from the old legacy model that you loved and that you've been using for 10 years. You know what I mean? And it's great, but it's just perfected,
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  Premnath: right? And it's matured and it's perfected. It works as it is. So why change it? But if you want the new features and new possibilities, for example, you take the 800A even, even right now, the 800A is, is we added the security layer on top of the communication interface we have, we have a problem. Big task to train people on how to use an Ethernet network and how to connect it to a, a network like this, VPNs and stuff, how to put it behind firewalls.
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  And it's matured and it's perfected. It works as it is. So why change it? But if you want the new features and new possibilities, for example, you take the 800A even, even right now, the 800A is, is we added the security layer on top of the communication interface we have, we have a problem. Big task to train people on how to use an Ethernet network and how to connect it to a, a network like this, VPNs and stuff, how to put it behind firewalls.
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  And where the 800A provides these kinds of features, it's the, it provides these security features that are available standards that are available today, and even the latest release that we just made, you'll actually be forced to, to by default, enable all the security features and then. If you don't want it, you can disable it.
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  But, but as per default, they are already enabled and then let people understand this and why it is important, especially in these days where we see these kinds of threats coming in from, from different regions. I remember I got a call once Sunday evening when I was on a highway, that an entire customer lost their, um, units because it was being attacked by, by some, some cyber attack.
• 0:09
  But, but as per default, they are already enabled and then let people understand this and why it is important, especially in these days where we see these kinds of threats coming in from, from different regions. I remember I got a call once Sunday evening when I was on a highway, that an entire customer lost their, um, units because it was being attacked by, by some, some cyber attack.
• 0:09
  And Yeah, exactly. So, so we had to get them all on board again and then give them a quick training via over the phone. And here I deal directly with the customer. I knew them from earlier. So, yeah. And we had to give them a quick training on how do you protect your units from being hijacked again? And, and, and the SM 808 does provide that.
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  And all this, of course, requires all these trainings.
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  Yeah.
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  That's also what we do. I don't know if you're aware of these you mentioned the trainings that we do, right? But there are lots of our FAQs as well. If you'd noticed on our FAQ page, if you go to danfoss. com and then search for FAQ training page, then you'll find our FAQ page where we have training videos and, and, and, and
• 0:09
  Trevor: Oh, you guys do a great job on tons of trainings.
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  Like I watched so many different training videos from BeardFoss. And a lot more to come.
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  Like I watched so many different training videos from BeardFoss. And a lot more to come.
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  Premnath: We are working on making a new portfolio of training materials as well. So there's a lot to come. And even if you take, in the US you have Chris He's doing a great job with this tech, tech talks that he does. Yeah.
• 0:10
  They're great. And then a good insight of the real world. Sometimes when you sit inside the factory or the, as we call it, you don't get the real picture of how the situation is. And then, and these kinds of interactions, they are actually very good for everybody.
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  Trevor: Yeah, no, I enjoy listening to Chris and Dave, they, cause they, you know, Chris is dealing in his team are dealing with all the.
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  Technicians out there. So, cause what they see in the field, you guys don't see in the lab. All you can do all the simulations you want, but the technicians are seeing actually real time and helping you, you make your product better. You know what I mean? Like some, some technicians might not be happy about it.
• 0:10
  Yes. It's a, it's a bug or it's an issue. Cause this does happen as you start to evolve, but this is how you make your product better. So when you have that relationship with your customer, they, the good ones understand it, you know what I mean? Some of them. You're learning together sometimes. You're learning together sometimes.
• 0:11
  Yes. It's a, it's a bug or it's an issue. Cause this does happen as you start to evolve, but this is how you make your product better. So when you have that relationship with your customer, they, the good ones understand it, you know what I mean? Some of them. You're learning together sometimes. You're learning together sometimes.
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  Premnath: Exactly. Everybody understands that there's an issue and we are all doing what we can do to solve the issue, right? But some issues are really tough. I remember once we were dealing with an issue where the Ethernet communication was dropped out. So you did not have any interface to your unit any longer.
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  That one was tough to understand because you didn't really know what was happening. And then. We found out the reason after our task team was put on the case, and then they found out what the, the, the root cause of that issue was. So, yeah. And, and, and the corrections is, is, is also, and, and this is the good part about working in support department, because I, I wondered often, I've been here for 18 years now, or 18 plus, I don't remember anymore.
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  And, and I wonder why am I still doing this? I should do something else. But you know, when you do something and you see the success when, when, when, when you solve an issue or when you see the smile on. On customer's face when they are happy for something that is really what do you say? It gives you something.
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  And, and I wonder why am I still doing this? I should do something else. But you know, when you do something and you see the success when, when, when, when you solve an issue or when you see the smile on. On customer's face when they are happy for something that is really what do you say? It gives you something.
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  Yeah.
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  Trevor: Yeah. Premnath: Yeah.
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  Trevor: No, I, I totally see. How did you, how'd you get in? You've been here almost, yeah, 19 years. I think you were saying, like, how did you get involved with Dan Foss? What, what got you in there? Because I know I talked to a lot of people who work at this company and other big companies too. It's just like, they, Keep you and they just hold on to you.
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  And then, cause it's fun. And then just like you said, it's like all of a sudden, you know, it's like am I ever getting bored of this? Or should I try something else? Cause you could, you got enough knowledge to go do anything else. And it's just like, just the people you're working with and the customers are like, how do you get involved with Danfoss?
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  Premnath: Actually, my, my education line is not in refrigeration at all. And that's why I watch your videos as well, because I need to learn these kinds of stuff. My educational background was IT engineering. So I'm a software guy. But when I did my internship, I did that for Danfoss, actually, I was working on the AK245 gateway.
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  And there I realized it was It was, it was not so fun to stay in this focused world within the screen only, and then dig into the code. It wasn't really me. I'm much more outspoken and need to talk with people. So when I was finished with my education, I took this job up in 2006 or seven or something like that.
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  And there I realized it was It was, it was not so fun to stay in this focused world within the screen only, and then dig into the code. It wasn't really me. I'm much more outspoken and need to talk with people. So when I was finished with my education, I took this job up in 2006 or seven or something like that.
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  And then. Then the work, the learnings and the, the colleagues and the environment and everything was actually a reason enough to stay within Danfoss. So I'm always challenged if you could say so, because there's always new day and no day is like it was yesterday. You, you have a plan of course, that today I have to do this, I have to do that, I have to do that, but then something suddenly happens and you have to be full force on that.
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  And that's why you, you cannot predict the day and it changes all the time. So, That kind of change is good for me at least. I like that kind of interactions as well. I get, I have contacts all over the world everywhere. I mean I can go anywhere and there'll be somebody I know or somebody who knows somebody I know.
• 0:14
  And that's why you, you cannot predict the day and it changes all the time. So, That kind of change is good for me at least. I like that kind of interactions as well. I get, I have contacts all over the world everywhere. I mean I can go anywhere and there'll be somebody I know or somebody who knows somebody I know.
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  So that's a, it's a, it's a good thing here. It's a good network to build up.
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  Trevor: Yeah, and I think that's one thing about it. Is that like it's always different. It's always challenging because you the The organization is trying to continue to grow and evolve and change. It's not just okay This is what we do and this is it and that's it It you know what I mean because you want to get better you want to grow as technology change like you're talking about Getting into the security side, which is so important today You know what?
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  I mean where 25 30 years ago, you didn't think you need security for refrigeration systems. You know what I mean? so it's just the evolution of Of what you do and that's so so awesome. So you've been doing this for 18 years 19 years How did you get involved in the videos because this is where I I found you is that I was so Going through DevOps and all of a sudden I see you pop up and you're talking about the 800A, you're talking about different controllers, talking about support.
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  How did you get involved in doing videos? Actually,
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  Premnath: I remember one of the first years within the first three or four years, we had a customer in before all this internet connectivity that we had with live communication, it was all over phone and emails. And, and then I remember We had a customer who was working on an M2 plus unit actually, and, and, and he didn't know which wires to connect to the correct terminals.
• 0:15
  Premnath: I remember one of the first years within the first three or four years, we had a customer in before all this internet connectivity that we had with live communication, it was all over phone and emails. And, and then I remember We had a customer who was working on an M2 plus unit actually, and, and, and he didn't know which wires to connect to the correct terminals.
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  And at that point of time, we had a little I don't know BlackBerry thing or HTC smartphone or something. And I made a video. I made them record a video of me putting the wires on and saying, this is this wire, this is that wire and you connect it like that. And then he Immediately. I mean, several mail threads couldn't solve it.
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  One video could solve it. So that gave me an idea. It's okay. We need to do this. And I actually uploaded to the, to YouTube at that point of time. But then Danfoss is a big company. We had policies on how to do stuff and, and, and what to do. So I was not allowed to share this kind of video and YouTube was pretty new at that point of time.
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  Yeah. So I was requested to take it down again. And then. Now we have our own studio. If you notice the latest videos that we made is made in the studio with high tech equipment and all the equipments that we need to, to, to do this. And, and, and and, and now we are doing that. So it's actually started then, but then we did everything where we could.
• 0:16
  Yeah. So I was requested to take it down again. And then. Now we have our own studio. If you notice the latest videos that we made is made in the studio with high tech equipment and all the equipments that we need to, to, to do this. And, and, and and, and now we are doing that. So it's actually started then, but then we did everything where we could.
• 0:16
  I also made video guides where I screen recorded my my screen and then send it to colleagues who, for instance, how do you clear alarm list that has to be forwarded in an AKM SMS transfer because you don't need these alarms anymore. So how do we clear that? I could explain click here, click clear and, and all that, but just take a look at this video, right?
• 0:16
  Click here and do that and do exactly the same. It was much easier to explain it in that way back to actually, so. Since then, all these videos has come up and, and lots of videos are in the back. Still a lot of things that we still need to do. For instance, there are still lots of new customers who doesn't know what a system manager is and what it does.
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  And, and, and it's also in the backbone that we have to make a guideline step by step guide, because one thing is reading a manual and understanding it. Another thing is seeing a guy. Doing it and, and, and especially now where we have these facilities where we can host these kind of videos. We should utilize it and that's where it actually starts.
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  And, and, and it's also in the backbone that we have to make a guideline step by step guide, because one thing is reading a manual and understanding it. Another thing is seeing a guy. Doing it and, and, and especially now where we have these facilities where we can host these kind of videos. We should utilize it and that's where it actually starts.
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  Trevor: That's awesome that you started that long. And that's the thing. Like that's the original time, like back then is that's when internet wasn't a big thing. I remember being in the field and it was like, there was, there was not even very many videos on YouTube at that time, right? You know, very few.
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  And, and now how, how it evolved and, and then making different videos of the same thing. Because Other, you know, that's the big thing that I'm, I'm learning is that not everybody watches and learns from the same video process or the same person, like, so that's the thing. That's why you got to continue to evolve, even though it's the same content.
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  Sometimes you got to say it in a different way. So someone understands it. And that's what I noticed about some of your videos. You know, they're similar, they're similar. They're saying the same thing, but they're different.
• 0:18
  Sometimes you got to say it in a different way. So someone understands it. And that's what I noticed about some of your videos. You know, they're similar, they're similar. They're saying the same thing, but they're different.
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  Premnath: Yeah. Yeah. Even, even, I mean, if you take, there's also different ways of doing the different tasks.
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  If you take in, in US particular, we had Keith, Keith made wonderful videos as well. Targeted towards our US base, right? And then we want to do something similar, but for a decentralized base in Europe. So we're all inspired by each other as well. So yes, yes, definitely. They're different, even though it's the same topic, different ways of doing it in different ways to achieve the end target goal.
• 0:18
  So, yeah. Definitely true, true.
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  Trevor: Yeah. So, so you, so you continue to make, have you been making any videos lately? Have you been working with your teams on teaching them how to train? Because that's another thing, right? Because you were doing the, you were one of the original ones making the videos. So now are you helping teach the other teams to make the videos, giving them some advice and stuff like that?
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  How's that been?
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  Premnath: They are
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  Trevor: pretty good at it themselves, actually.
• 0:18
  Premnath: I mean we, we got Erivaldo, Norton, Paul everybody's doing videos. Enrico. You've probably also seen Anna's gas detector videos. So we have, we have they're all pretty good at this. Of course, new technology just took time, but there are lots of possibility to record a video today.
• 0:19
  Premnath: I mean we, we got Erivaldo, Norton, Paul everybody's doing videos. Enrico. You've probably also seen Anna's gas detector videos. So we have, we have they're all pretty good at this. Of course, new technology just took time, but there are lots of possibility to record a video today.
• 0:19
  The most simplest videos we made is just record a team video session with yourself and then take the video and edit it and, and make it nice to, to, presented, right? So that is also something they are, they're all good. It's, it's like daily day task for us now to do videos among all the other things.
• 0:19
  That's the problem because there are so many things that we need to make videos about, but then of course, Support is our priority. So we have to take care of the support cases that comes in first. And then beside that, we also do product development. We are part of product development as well. And recently we did some strategic project with the Al Smart controller, but we have to launch the new Al Smart and, and, and we made some TurboCore Chiller controllers with Al Smart and also the EKC326A I think it's called, 326A.
• 0:19
  Thank you. The Chile controller, we converted that to the Lsmart platform as well. So some of the strategical projects are also something actually these two are done by Norton in, in US. And, and well, we do documentation, we do product testing. Test department cooperation with them to build up the proper test site that simulates the real life scenario.
• 0:20
  Thank you. The Chile controller, we converted that to the Lsmart platform as well. So some of the strategical projects are also something actually these two are done by Norton in, in US. And, and well, we do documentation, we do product testing. Test department cooperation with them to build up the proper test site that simulates the real life scenario.
• 0:20
  As you said, you cannot replicate an entire real life situation in a lab. We try to do our best on that part. So lots of different tasks. And then on top of that videos is, is, is, is also a main focus right now.
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  Trevor: Oh, good.
• 0:20
  Premnath: So, but and there are lots, we, we actually have a. A big Excel sheet with videos that has to be made.
• 0:20
  Oh, yeah. They'll just keep coming. They'll be coming. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you should be looking out on our Danfoss learning platform there. They will be launched there. Some will still be on YouTube. The difference is the learning platform videos. They are a bit longer. Whereas the YouTube videos, they have to be short and precise and quick.
• 0:21
  Oh, yeah. They'll just keep coming. They'll be coming. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you should be looking out on our Danfoss learning platform there. They will be launched there. Some will still be on YouTube. The difference is the learning platform videos. They are a bit longer. Whereas the YouTube videos, they have to be short and precise and quick.
• 0:21
  So we're working on how to target different users in different scenarios. Because when you are at, in the machine room. The thing is not working. You need to know how to set up the something. And then it's easy to take, grab your phone and just search for it on YouTube. Right. So, so you have it there.
• 0:21
  So yeah, a lot of things are going on in, in, in the department trainings is, is, is, is important part as well. Among all the other things. Yes.
• 0:21
  Trevor: Yeah. So you, you support your internal team from around the world. What are some of the biggest challenges supporting. Your team and then they have to go and support the customer out there because this is one of the things that I, I, I help with a lot of time.
• 0:21
  I'm supporting technicians, I'm supporting manufacturers, I'm supporting a lot of different people as our training organization as refrigeration mentor. But what do you feel like are some of the biggest challenges when doing customer and product support?
• 0:21
  Premnath: When, when we do support the challenges, they are to get the facts.
• 0:21
  The facts are important for us to do the detective work, analyze, because sometimes you just see a symptom. You might see a symptom because of many different reasons. So this error message might come because of this reason, that reason, this reason. So getting the facts in place, that's the most difficult task, I would say.
• 0:22
  The facts are important for us to do the detective work, analyze, because sometimes you just see a symptom. You might see a symptom because of many different reasons. So this error message might come because of this reason, that reason, this reason. So getting the facts in place, that's the most difficult task, I would say.
• 0:22
  Sometimes you might see the same thing, because of a totally different reason. And, and that's why. Customers, they, they just report, report issues. When they see the problem, they don't remember how or what they did all the time. I mean, some of them do because they can replicate it, but often you can't see, or they can't remember what did I actually do to get here.
• 0:22
  And then we have to predict and then remind them and dig through the, the, the mindset of a product to understand. And then. Find the end process of pathway that they took to get there. That is maybe, I would say, an important task and also a difficult task. The next thing is also, as we talked about, mindset.
• 0:23
  And then we have to predict and then remind them and dig through the, the, the mindset of a product to understand. And then. Find the end process of pathway that they took to get there. That is maybe, I would say, an important task and also a difficult task. The next thing is also, as we talked about, mindset.
• 0:23
  Most of these guys, they are, Mechanical refrigeration guy. So they are working with valves and pipes and making them think about sensors that you have sensors out there that these are your eyes and ears. They report back to the controller based on this. The brain of the controller then evaluates and then activates something else out that that's, that's also something for some regions.
• 0:23
  It depends on the region where it is from, right? So it depends on the region. Some regions, they are still on a mechanical level. Some regions they are on an electronic level, and then you have a mix. There's also a mix of this. They are very good at some part of it, but then you have IT networking inside and top of that.
• 0:23
  They are very good with controllers. They know how the controllers are supposed to be set up, how to put, I mean, connect the wires, but then this IP layer comes on top of it. Typically in the old days, there was an IT department, but nowadays you have lots of different customers and sometimes they do it themselves.
• 0:24
  They are very good with controllers. They know how the controllers are supposed to be set up, how to put, I mean, connect the wires, but then this IP layer comes on top of it. Typically in the old days, there was an IT department, but nowadays you have lots of different customers and sometimes they do it themselves. And then to be able to tell them how to do this properly and then configure it. in a protective way is also something that we sometimes have some challenges with. It's always, I mean, being a trainer as well, it's not, it's not, I would never say it's the the listener's fault. It's the explainer who has to explain it in In the way that the listener understands.
• 0:24
  So you have to go to their place and then understand it with metaphors that they understand. I had a customer here who needed to connect a system manager, and we were talking about how to put it behind a VPN, and then you have to use metaphors. And I use the road. So consider this road as your internet line, and then you have a house on this road.
• 0:24
  This is your unit. And then this house, you can enter it because the doors might be open. Well, you have a fence around the house. Where you then have to go through the fence first, you need the key in order to get through the fence or these kind of metaphors are always good to explain it so that you have to be in their shoes and think like they would think and explain it in a way that they understand it.
• 0:25
  This is your unit. And then this house, you can enter it because the doors might be open. Well, you have a fence around the house. Where you then have to go through the fence first, you need the key in order to get through the fence or these kind of metaphors are always good to explain it so that you have to be in their shoes and think like they would think and explain it in a way that they understand it.
• 0:25
  I would say that's, that's that's the fun part of it. Not, not challenging a difficult part, but that's the fun part. Think like others.
• 0:25
  Trevor: Yeah, no, and I, I totally agree with you that like some of the biggest challenges in refrigeration is getting the facts, you know, I did a lot of field and customer support over the years and it's like, well, it's good.
• 0:25
  No, I, you know, I didn't change anything, but you know, I remember even back when I was a technician to feel like I've changed too many things to really know what, which one of those seven things that I've changed to affect where we're at now in that system. And I think that's the big thing. Refrigeration is all facts.
• 0:25
  At the end of the day, it is facts. Is there some anomalies? Yes. But 99 percent of the time it's about facts. And if you have the right facts, you can find the root cause of a problem. Exactly.
• 0:25
  Premnath: Some of the experienced guys, they know exactly if this is the type, we need to provide this, we need to provide this, and they just list it up.
• 0:26
  Premnath: Some of the experienced guys, they know exactly if this is the type, we need to provide this, we need to provide this, and they just list it up.
• 0:26
  And then you can easily target, okay, that's what you need to do. And sometimes also you think about it and then you ask the right question. It's the SCP enabled, it's DNS enabled, and then we know how the system manager thinks if those items. So these facts are, it's everything. If you have the right facts, a task is very easy.
• 0:26
  Trevor: Yeah. So, so you've been doing a lot of training over the years with your internal teams. How did you get involved in that? Is that just something that came along with the customer support? And it's like, okay, well, I need to get into training. And what, what are your thoughts? Cause I really enjoy training.
• 0:26
  That's why I got a training business. I love helping people and see them succeed. And all of a sudden the light bulb goes off and they go out. And they're solving the problem and then they're going out and training more people. That's what I really love about training myself. What are some of the things that you enjoy about training?
• 0:26
  Premnath: I mean, the most important part was that initially training, it's always been a part of the job. Since the first day, I remember the first training I had was a horrible training. It was my first training I did. And, uh, I actually, I just got married. before and then I had to do training one day.
• 0:27
  Premnath: I mean, the most important part was that initially training, it's always been a part of the job. Since the first day, I remember the first training I had was a horrible training. It was my first training I did. And, uh, I actually, I just got married. before and then I had to do training one day.
• 0:27
  My wife was not happy about that, but that's how it was planned long before that. So I had to do the training and it went horrible. So that, that, that was part of the job actually. But then evolving from that, you, you also get out to customers. When they have issues, then you go to customers and then you actually do some kind of a mini training when you are at the customers.
• 0:27
  Maybe you don't have the, the, the headlines or bullet points in place, but you always have some material that you can pull out and say, okay, let's go through this part here now and explain it to customers. So it's always been part of the job training. Actually training is, is also something I enjoy a lot because as I said, I like to talk a lot and, and, and connect with people.
• 0:27
  It's been one of my talents. I like that part as well. Yeah. Yeah. So it's always been there. So it's never something that I developed myself. It's just come in naturally that training is part of it. We, we, in the, in the earlier stages, we had trainings for internal customers who were new. So we had a. At a cool basic and at a cool advanced training.
• 0:28
  It's been one of my talents. I like that part as well. Yeah. Yeah. So it's always been there. So it's never something that I developed myself. It's just come in naturally that training is part of it. We, we, in the, in the earlier stages, we had trainings for internal customers who were new. So we had a. At a cool basic and at a cool advanced training.
• 0:28
  So the basic training was what is a front end? What is a case controller? What is a back controller? What? How do we do communication? What kind of tools do we have? That was a one week training where we did that on system managers, monitoring software, then case and back and then solution. And then we had the advanced training where we went in depth with some of these advanced features like P optimization AKC injection on function and add up to defrost.
• 0:28
  Why we, why we do that and how we do it and how do you configure it in your system to, to make it work? So it came like, like two step. We did that previously. Nowadays it's mainly used for onboarding new colleagues and also customers. We did. Just before summer holiday, we did a training in the UK where we went through a bunch of installers and had to walk through with them on installation.
• 0:29
  Why we, why we do that and how we do it and how do you configure it in your system to, to make it work? So it came like, like two step. We did that previously. Nowadays it's mainly used for onboarding new colleagues and also customers. We did. Just before summer holiday, we did a training in the UK where we went through a bunch of installers and had to walk through with them on installation.
• 0:29
  And there you also see this diversity. Some of them, they are used to work with wires, others with pipes, and others with the electronics. And then you have these people overhead who make sure that everything connects together. You meet different type of people and then, you know, Giving them an overall introduction to the system.
• 0:29
  That was also a good experience. Yeah. So it's always been part of the job, actually. It's not something I developed.
• 0:29
  Trevor: Yeah. Well, you, you evolved into becoming a better, cause I remember my first training too. It's like nervous, not sure what to say. Just. Sweating, you know what I mean? It's just the way it is.
• 0:29
  But the more you do, it's like anything, the more you do it, the better you get. You figure out where you can fine tune it, get better at it. Even in my CO2 trainings. Now that I do, I've been doing for 10 years, I've been doing CO2 training. Even this training that I did last night or the other night, I fine tune it.
• 0:29
  I make a little better. You know what I mean? How do you make it related to someone who has never heard about CO2 versus who has been doing it a long time, maybe longer than me. And helping teach them one or two things, you know, it's just a continual evolution. And it's a lot of fun.
• 0:30
  I make a little better. You know what I mean? How do you make it related to someone who has never heard about CO2 versus who has been doing it a long time, maybe longer than me. And helping teach them one or two things, you know, it's just a continual evolution. And it's a lot of fun.
• 0:30
  Premnath: Yeah, it is. It is.
• 0:30
  Sure. It is. It is a different way to connect with our customers or users.
• 0:30
  Trevor: Yeah, because there's always going to be new people who have never even heard of the products or seen the products and, and you want to explain, like you said earlier, explain it in a way that they, they get it, or at least are more curious about learning more.
• 0:30
  And I think that's the big thing, because there's so much to know in refrigeration. Like for sure your product your guys's product line is just endless, you know what I mean? And the big manufacturers like you can't know all of it. You know what I mean? There's just so much it's just crazy
• 0:30
  Premnath: I mean we were discussing and I just recently took up on the task of learning or moving away from front ends and towards case and pack controllers as well and and some of these pack controllers they are really beast the AKPC782 or B version, they have more than 6, 000 parameters in them and they can do almost everything to understand it and to learn it.
• 0:31
  Premnath: I mean we were discussing and I just recently took up on the task of learning or moving away from front ends and towards case and pack controllers as well and and some of these pack controllers they are really beast the AKPC782 or B version, they have more than 6, 000 parameters in them and they can do almost everything to understand it and to learn it.
• 0:31
  And, and then another task is also for these guys to present it in a way that is easy to use. That's also a challenge. And then you, when you come in with fresh eyes, with no real knowledge, you have to learn the things work around it. So, It is sometimes a challenge and it, and as you mentioned, yeah, some of them are really tough and you can always learn.
• 0:31
  There's never something you cannot learn.
• 0:31
  Trevor: Yeah, you definitely don't want to start the training off, well, we got 6, 000 parameters in this controller, so.
• 0:31
  Premnath: Exactly. Yeah, take it step by step.
• 0:31
  Trevor: Cause you got to understand each one and that's when you master something. That's where it takes sometimes years to get to that point, right?
• 0:31
  Because a lot of the customers are working on lots of different products. That's the thing about refrigeration. They could be working on your product and a few other manufacturers, products, and a few other manufactured products. And then each one of the. Them do differently because you sell to manufacturers and those manufacturers will take your controllers and design programs or develop them in the way that they need.
• 0:32
  Because a lot of the customers are working on lots of different products. That's the thing about refrigeration. They could be working on your product and a few other manufacturers, products, and a few other manufactured products. And then each one of the. Them do differently because you sell to manufacturers and those manufacturers will take your controllers and design programs or develop them in the way that they need.
• 0:32
  But if that technician or contractor works with three or four or five different manufacturers, they could be all set up differently. You know what I mean? So, so it's challenging for, for the technician and the contractors out there, even if they know the product, it still takes a long time unless you're dedicated.
• 0:32
  Can you learn this stuff fast? For sure. But that's spending countless hours and evenings and on the weekends and learning this stuff where not everybody does that.
• 0:32
  Premnath: And you can't, I mean, I would say it's difficult to learn it very fast. Some of, some of them, the PAC control, I'm learning on the job whenever, this is another good thing for me because whenever I get new cases, I have to put my mind into that.
• 0:32
  Okay. I need to understand how this works and how this works. And then you get used to these things. So it's, it's, it's part of it actually. And it takes, it takes dedication and time, as you mentioned. Yes. That's sure.
• 0:33
  Okay. I need to understand how this works and how this works. And then you get used to these things. So it's, it's, it's part of it actually. And it takes, it takes dedication and time, as you mentioned. Yes. That's sure.
• 0:33
  Trevor: Because they won't see the problems that you would see, right? That was the thing about when I worked at Copeland, I learned so much.
• 0:33
  Because I've seen all the different problems that were coming in or issues people were having and trying to figure out, like you said earlier, I'm the detective now being a detective for them because they're supposed to be detective out there. So you take, and you analyze all that stuff, like you said earlier.
• 0:33
  But as a support person, you get to see all these different things everybody's seeing. And then you can, you got to dive in and read, okay, what does this parameter actually really mean? What does it do? Where a lot of times people don't have time to, Well, they don't have time to go to get something up and running.
• 0:33
  I don't have time to learn exactly. I just need to get them up and running. I got a million dollars in product that are starting to warm or a couple hundred thousand, I got to just fix it. So they're under the gun where we have to spend the time to figure out exactly what it means. And then we got to analyze that in our head, how to explain it.
• 0:33
  To someone who may not really understand how the controller should actually act. You know, how does that valve open or close with this parameter change? Like MOP is a big one. Maximum operating pressure. You know, you hit that pressure threshold and that transducer, that signal is coming back. I thought I was going to start to close off.
• 0:34
  To someone who may not really understand how the controller should actually act. You know, how does that valve open or close with this parameter change? Like MOP is a big one. Maximum operating pressure. You know, you hit that pressure threshold and that transducer, that signal is coming back. I thought I was going to start to close off.
• 0:34
  You know, why will my valve not open? You know what I mean? I remember the first time I seen that on a, I think it was a Dixell controller. That was the first time I seen valve's not open and why not? And it took me a while to figure it out. And, but then, then when I figured it out now, I know, right. But you
• 0:34
  Premnath: have to take the steps as the products would do it, right?
• 0:34
  Okay. I get this input like that. And then I react in this way. And you have to think like the product, unlike the customer. So that's,
• 0:34
  yeah, you're absolutely right
• 0:34
  Trevor: about that. Yes. No, I love it. So. So what's the next steps for you? Like cause you're doing a ton of product support. You're, you're supporting your teams all around the world, which is really cool.
• 0:34
  That's another advantage for you versus someone just locally, honestly, you get to see what's happening in China. What's happening in Canada here, what's happening in Denmark, what's happening in Australia. So you see, cause there are different issues in different regions. That's exactly
• 0:35
  That's another advantage for you versus someone just locally, honestly, you get to see what's happening in China. What's happening in Canada here, what's happening in Denmark, what's happening in Australia. So you see, cause there are different issues in different regions. That's exactly
• 0:35
  Premnath: how it is. Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and yeah, you mentioned lately I've been actually away from my product support tasks for some time I've been traveling in Southeast Asia and Pacifics to understand their needs there. And we are trying to build up And new trainings and, and, and, and, and direct interfaces to customers and, and, and understanding or colleagues needs in that region to see what we can do for that region.
• 0:35
  And I've been involved with that part right now, and I support them right now with technical questions, because this is, this is part of the world where. price matters and then you learn it from a sales point of view. So you have some sales knowledge inside and you have some technical part inside as well.
• 0:35
  So this is what I've been doing as well, part of this. That's also why I need to learn more about An all round case pack, not only system, but I need to know more about everything else. So that's, that's, that's that's also a different aspect of the business. Definitely. And being in front of customers who sometimes doesn't need to know the detail levels.
• 0:36
  So this is what I've been doing as well, part of this. That's also why I need to learn more about An all round case pack, not only system, but I need to know more about everything else. So that's, that's, that's that's also a different aspect of the business. Definitely. And being in front of customers who sometimes doesn't need to know the detail levels.
• 0:36
  I mean as, as we, I have a tendency to go straight into the details. And this might frighten them away. This is something I learned from interfacing to customers who are more on a managing level, not technical level, but on a managing level, the decision makers. And then you need to understand. So that's also something that I've been working with understanding their mindset.
• 0:36
  So yeah, something is coming up there as well. We are, we are doing something there as well. Yeah.
• 0:36
  Trevor: Now, this is what I talk about with technicians too. It's like when you're talking to the manager or the owner of that business, you got to talk to them a little bit differently than maybe you're talking to the meat or produce manager, right?
• 0:36
  So they're different. The produce manager are looking at the cases every day and they're, They're dealing with the problems or any issues where the manager's looking at the whole store. They're worried about the groceries, those shelves, were they full? You know what I mean? They're dealing with customers where when you're talking to the store manager versus the produce or the meat manager is going to be a different conversation that you should be having with them to really get the understanding of their needs and how you can help them.
• 0:37
  So they're different. The produce manager are looking at the cases every day and they're, They're dealing with the problems or any issues where the manager's looking at the whole store. They're worried about the groceries, those shelves, were they full? You know what I mean? They're dealing with customers where when you're talking to the store manager versus the produce or the meat manager is going to be a different conversation that you should be having with them to really get the understanding of their needs and how you can help them.
• 0:37
  Because at the end of the day, if you're diving deep technical stuff with someone who's just signed off, they just want you to, To have it fixed and out of there. It's not very helpful in that conversation. So it's learning that mindset, just like you say, where you're, you're talking with the owners and then you're talking with the other levels of management or inside that business.
• 0:37
  Cause they have technical teams too, or their customers. So that's very important. I like that. I like that a lot. That's true. Well, I really want to thank you for taking the time to chat me. Anything else you would like to leave the guests and the technicians out there, people that are using your product, any advice that you'd love to give them?
• 0:37
  Yeah. I mean,
• 0:37
  Premnath: as we talked about facts, note down your facts, what do you do? Well, how did you push or which buttons did you push to get down there? When you contact our guys in the field get the facts, note them down and then watch our videos and trainings that we have on the learning platform, Danfoss learning platform, as well as our FAQ page and YouTube everywhere.
• 0:38
  Premnath: as we talked about facts, note down your facts, what do you do? Well, how did you push or which buttons did you push to get down there? When you contact our guys in the field get the facts, note them down and then watch our videos and trainings that we have on the learning platform, Danfoss learning platform, as well as our FAQ page and YouTube everywhere.
• 0:38
  Watch it. And then do not hesitate to ask questions. That's the important part. You can only be. Learning if you ask the questions and there's a saying here in Denmark, which is that there are no stupid questions, only bad explanations. So ask, ask. And then another important thing is also if you are new to this.
• 0:38
  See if you can get some old products take, take, reach out to your guys in, in, in Danfoss as well. Maybe they have some spare products lying around, get it and push the buttons and get the blue smoke out because that's how you learn. You need to push the buttons and, and make things break. So you don't learn, I mean, so you don't break it afterwards, right?
• 0:38
  Yeah. Yeah. It's better to break it in the trial trial period when
• 0:38
  Trevor: it's in a system running lots and have a lot of products or a lot of money on the line. So.
• 0:38
  Premnath: And practical experience, what you do with your hands is much more in your memory than what you read on the paper. So yeah, hands on exercises, hands on experiences is gold.
• 0:39
  Premnath: And practical experience, what you do with your hands is much more in your memory than what you read on the paper. So yeah, hands on exercises, hands on experiences is gold.
• 0:39
  And ask questions every time, anytime. There's no, no, no limits to questions. Always
• 0:39
  Trevor: ask. Yeah, I love that. Prerna, thank you so much for taking the time. And if you're listening to this, you know, get in and go check out these videos. You know, it's so important, just like he said, that you got to try this, put your hands on it, look, read, watch the videos.
• 0:39
  It's all about investing in yourself, taking the time to grow. And because this is hard, there's so many things going on in the world right now. And there's so many distractions. There's so many things that in social media that. Taking up your time. But even if you take 10 minutes a day, 15 minutes a day, learn a different product that you may be coming across or you're working on or watching some videos and note them down.
• 0:39
  Okay. I watched this one. Okay. Maybe you got to watch it again and again. That's okay. Or maybe you're going to listen to this podcast multiple times just to get it. Cause like we talked about multiple times is a lot of it's a mindset. If you want to be better, you just, you got to tell yourself, okay, I want to be better and you've got to work at that.
• 0:40
  Okay. I watched this one. Okay. Maybe you got to watch it again and again. That's okay. Or maybe you're going to listen to this podcast multiple times just to get it. Cause like we talked about multiple times is a lot of it's a mindset. If you want to be better, you just, you got to tell yourself, okay, I want to be better and you've got to work at that.
• 0:40
  You know what I mean? It doesn't happen overnight to, The kind of change from going from watching TV all night to, okay, let's spend an hour on, on training and refrigeration a bit more. It's difficult. You know, it's getting out of doing that routine because I've done it myself, but invest in yourself every day is only going to help you want to thank you so much for taking the time to come on the refrigeration mentor podcast.
• 0:40
  Thank you for inviting
• 0:40
  Premnath: me and letting
• 0:40
  Trevor: me be here.
• 0:41
  Trevor: me be here.