Latest / She Rises with Ashy & Tijana / 201. WE SAID NO: This Didn’t Belong on She Rises

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201. WE SAID NO: This Didn’t Belong on She Rises · She Rises with Ashy & Tijana

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Apodjay Production. Welcome to the She Rises Podcast. I'm Ashy
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: and I'm Tiana. This podcast is about female empowerment.
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  Speaker 2: And encouraging you to be your biggest, boldest, and most
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  Speaker 2: authentic version of yourself.
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  Speaker 1: We help you shed the shame, grow to a new level.
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  Speaker 1: We're gonna laugh, cry, and talk about the topics everyone
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  Speaker 1: else is too afraid to talk about. Get ready for
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  Speaker 1: your next level of self.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: Welcome back to another episode of She Rises with your favorite.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Hosts Ashy and Tiana.
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  Speaker 2: Today's a little bit of a controversial topic because we
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  Speaker 2: had a very controversial person basically want to come on
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  Speaker 2: the podcast.
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  Speaker 1: Yes, and we hesitated. We did awesome.
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  Speaker 2: We even spoke about it a little bit on our
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  Speaker 2: social media and we kind of wanted to give you
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  Speaker 2: a rundown of kind of what happened, how we got
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: to the conclusion of not allowing this person on the podcast,
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  Speaker 2: and why we kind of came to that conclusion.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, it stirred a lot up online. We did a
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  Speaker 1: video just saying, hey, with this person's approach us wanted
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  Speaker 1: to come online. We're not even gonna say the person's
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  Speaker 1: name because a part of our reason why we're not
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: bringing this person on is because we don't want to
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  Speaker 1: give them the airtime. We don't think it aligned, it
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  Speaker 1: doesn't align with our values, and it really ruffled a
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  Speaker 1: few feathers, but we can totally understand why. Absolutely. Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: So Katie and Ja, our producers, came to us and
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  Speaker 2: said that the pr team of this very specific person
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  Speaker 2: in the sex work industry who is very much to
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  Speaker 2: the extremes of sex work.
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  Speaker 1: Is it even sex work what she does? I don't sure.
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  Speaker 2: She's kind of in her own leg ory of her
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  Speaker 2: own and came and said that she wanted to come
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  Speaker 2: on the podcast. And when we both first heard it,
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  Speaker 2: we didn't know how to feel. We kind of quite
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: a little bit because were on the phone to each
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  Speaker 2: other and we were just like, oh, I don't know
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  Speaker 2: how this feels.
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  Speaker 1: I think our intuition straight away were like no, yeah.
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  Speaker 1: But we're also very open minded people. We're very curious people.
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  Speaker 1: We love understanding human psychology. White people do what they do,
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  Speaker 1: So there's a part of us who are like, I'm
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  Speaker 1: actually really curious, like, yes, what goes through her head?
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  Speaker 1: How did she get to where she is? Not in
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: a good way, but like as a little girl, as
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  Speaker 1: a teenager, like what happened to make you want to
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  Speaker 1: do the things that you're doing? And I got really curious.
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  Speaker 2: Absolutely, But like at first I was like, no, like
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  Speaker 2: I don't I think about what she does and I'm like,
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  Speaker 2: you've literally sent women back hundreds of years really like
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  Speaker 2: I'm like, you're undoing all of the work that we're doing,
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  Speaker 2: you know, And I just like it was so conflicting
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  Speaker 2: with a lot of my values that I was just like,
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  Speaker 2: oh my god, I actually don't know how we would
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: interview her. And we were having this conversation of how
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  Speaker 2: would we interview her without putting our own projections on her,
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  Speaker 2: of like us thinking that what she's doing is wrong? Yes,
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  Speaker 2: you know even as she you were saying, you know,
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  Speaker 2: I want to make it know and if I'm sitting
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  Speaker 2: in front of her, I'm not her friend. Yeah, I'm
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  Speaker 2: not going to sit here and be her friend.
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  Speaker 1: If you out it was out.
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  Speaker 2: But you're passionate about your beliefs and what's important to you.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, women, and what we stand for and what does
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  Speaker 1: feel right for me? And of course little girls are
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  Speaker 1: watching as well, like.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, but also to make it known that it's like, hey,
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  Speaker 2: like we may be sitting here across from you, but
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  Speaker 2: we don't condone what you're doing. No, this is not
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  Speaker 2: in alignment with what it is that we stand for
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: here even No, we don't support what you do. And
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  Speaker 2: so we were thinking about all the ways it, like
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  Speaker 2: what that dynamic or that experience might actually look like
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  Speaker 2: if we said no, if we said yes, you know,
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  Speaker 2: how would we approach the situation, what questions we would ask? Yeah,
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  Speaker 2: all of those sorts of things.
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  Speaker 1: It was really cool because we spoke to Steve a
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  Speaker 1: bad and we also spoke to your dad about it
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: as well, and they had really different perspectives and caoll
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  Speaker 1: opinions and gave us ideas of different topics we could
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: talk about and how we approached it. And so we
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: started to lean into oh, like, maybe we could have
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: this interview and really like actually rip her mask off
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  Speaker 1: and get to who she really really is and not
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: break her down, but kind of like the whole vulnerable
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  Speaker 1: side of her. Yeah, And then we did a video
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  Speaker 1: online saying on TikTok, I think we think about getting
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: this personal on what do you guys think? We're a
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: bit unsure and WoT being it. A lot of women
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  Speaker 1: were very angry, very triggered, very upset, opinionated on why
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  Speaker 1: I shouldn't, and also just like why would you give
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  Speaker 1: her the platform, Like it's disgusting you would align yourself
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  Speaker 1: with her, Like I'm not going to listen to the
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: podcast if you do this. We could really see it
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  Speaker 1: was really triggering. And I also didn't know the extent
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: of the way she like rage baits women, so I
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  Speaker 1: didn't know that was a thing. So when that was
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  Speaker 1: brought forward to me too, I was like, oh, absolutely not. Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: So for just for some context, my sister was telling
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  Speaker 2: me about the documentary, so she had watched the documentary
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  Speaker 2: that she created, and apparently in that she says, I
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  Speaker 2: don't target men, I target the women.
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  Speaker 1: I the target the wives, and.
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  Speaker 2: I target like speaking about their sons and their husbands,
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  Speaker 2: because that's who like, if I rage bait them, They're
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  Speaker 2: going to go and tell their husbands. They're going to
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  Speaker 2: go tell their sons, and then their sons and husbands
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  Speaker 2: are going to come to me. And I just like
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  Speaker 2: was so mind blown at the fact that this is
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  Speaker 2: what she does, because you can see that what she
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  Speaker 2: does works unfortunately, Like you can see how passionate and
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  Speaker 2: angry and frustrated and like that anger that comes through
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  Speaker 2: with women because of what she's doing, you know, making
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  Speaker 2: it okay for like people's husbands to come and go
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  Speaker 2: and sleep with her and have sex and kind of
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  Speaker 2: like go outside of the marriage commitment, you know, and
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  Speaker 2: make it like something that's okayamalize it in this generation,
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  Speaker 2: which is, you know, against a lot of people's values
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  Speaker 2: of union and monogamy.
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  Speaker 1: And then we got a DM from someone that we
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  Speaker 1: know of who I suppose doesn't work in the sex
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  Speaker 1: industry space, but kind of and she was assuming and
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  Speaker 1: making an accusation that we don't support sex workers, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: and the sex industry, And that's absolutely not true, not
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  Speaker 1: sru at all. I have a friend that does it.
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  Speaker 1: I know plenty of women that do. OnlyFans. Yeah, I've
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  Speaker 1: got a friend that's an escort. Like, I have no
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  Speaker 1: problems so that you do you, Yeah, But this is
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  Speaker 1: like another level of offering a service. I don't put
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  Speaker 1: her in the category of being an escort, yes, or
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  Speaker 1: a stripar yes, or an exotic dancer. No, we're a
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  Speaker 1: professional girlfriend.
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  Speaker 2: What she's doing is not like teaching safe sex or
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  Speaker 2: sexual autonomy. I mean, maybe she might perceive it that way,
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: and maybe in her eyes that's what she's doing, but
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  Speaker 2: it's just like so far to the extreme that it's
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  Speaker 2: normalizing a lot of unhealthy things for women, and also
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: I believe like normalizing a lot of unhealthy viewpoint of
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: women for men. Yeah.
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: I really like how Kayla Jay talks about the sex
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  Speaker 1: industry because I think she has normalized a little bit
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  Speaker 1: more where people aren't so judge you on that work.
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  Speaker 1: And I'm not judging on the work either, Like you
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  Speaker 1: do you if you love sex, you love variety, and
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  Speaker 1: you want to get paid for doing it, Yeah, by
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  Speaker 1: your mean yes, and go do your thing. But she
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  Speaker 1: also has done plenty of videos where she's like, this
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  Speaker 1: work is not easy, this work is hard, this work
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  Speaker 1: is dangerous, this work impacts my mental health. So she's
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  Speaker 1: not glorifying and that's why she stopped doing the money
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  Speaker 1: counts as well. She's not glorifying it so young eighteen
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  Speaker 1: years like, Wow, that looks easy. Yeah, I want to
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  Speaker 1: go do that? Do that? How do I work nine
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  Speaker 1: to five for a week when I can make as
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  Speaker 1: much money doing a one hour booking? Like she's not
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  Speaker 1: glorifying like that. Yeah, I just wanted to clarify that
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  Speaker 1: because that really upset me that someone else thought that
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  Speaker 1: we were against other women doing that. It's not what
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  Speaker 1: we personally choose to do, But it doesn't mean that
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  Speaker 1: we are judging and not accepting other people doing it.
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  Speaker 1: Absolutely not. This is a different kettle of fish, like
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  Speaker 1: it's a whole new layer.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, So it was just this person snap judgment of
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  Speaker 2: the way that she perceived what we were show casing and granted, like,
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  Speaker 2: I don't know exactly how it is that we worded it,
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  Speaker 2: but in no way, shape or form, what will we be
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  Speaker 2: shaming or judging or anything like that. It was just like,
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  Speaker 2: does this person align with us?
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  Speaker 1: I don't think so?
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  Speaker 2: Is this what we want to condone for our audience
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  Speaker 2: and to showcase that we actually enable?
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  Speaker 1: No, it's not. And if we had her on, we're
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  Speaker 1: giving her a platform, we're giving her airtime, and we're
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  Speaker 1: potentially sending a husbands and like more traffic, yeah, more
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  Speaker 1: traffic to her and upsetting our audience. You could see
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: how upset our audience got. And we will always do
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  Speaker 1: it feels right for us, especially if we believe there's
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: a empowering or an attention behind it that can help.
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  Speaker 1: But when it came down to it, I was like,
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  Speaker 1: this upsets our community this much. Absolutely not. Yeah, no way, Like,
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  Speaker 1: we love our community, we respect them, we respect their opinions.
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: We wanted to live the episodes that they want to hear.
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  Speaker 1: There was a couple that were interested, like, you know,
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: curious like we were, but most of you are like,
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: absolutely not. So we felt really good in our decision
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: to not have her on. Yeah. I've seen her on
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: so many other podcasts lately. She's obviously trying to get
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: out there and we're based out there more. But Yeah,
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: just came one day and we were like, oh, we're
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: both on the same page. It's a no hey, We're
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: like yeah, yeah, Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: I think even the people who are hosting her, I'm
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: copping a lot of backlash for having her. Yeah, And granted,
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: obviously she does really well at triggering a lot of
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  Speaker 2: people and activating a lot of emotion in a lot
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: of women, and obviously that's her role in what she's
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: doing and how she's trying to showcase herself. Yeah, but Yeah,
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: at the end of the day, just doesn't feel aligned,
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: and it didn't feel aligned from the very beginning. It
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: also doesn't fit into she rises at all. No, to
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: have her on here, rise up, to rise up and
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: to believe what we do and showcase what we do.
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: To have her on would be literally like a conflict
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: in our values. We would be so out of integrity
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: to like have her on and we were just like
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: absolutely fucking not.
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Like I've interviewed a sex work before, which is
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: the Sciences not Lush the year before. Yeah, and I
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: love that conversation. It's super interesting. It's a world I've
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: never been a part of. And I'm like, wow, tell
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: me Moore, how does that work? And yeah, once again
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: it's like I wouldn't do it myself. It's not for me,
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: but like she was enjoying it. I'm like, good on you.
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: Like, Yeah, the story I feel like for me a
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: really cool interview to speak to somebody in the industry,
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: given that I know nothing about it. Yeah, and like
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: wouldn't know how things work and what you know, Like,
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: there's so many things that I think that they could
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: teach you in terms of like a healthy sexual autonomy
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: and like connecting sexual alteration and all those different things.
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: You know, and safety as well. If there's any young
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: girls that are thinking that's the easy road out. I
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: would love to have someone on here that actually talks
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: about the darker side of it, because there is a
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: darker side of it.
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: That'd be a really interesting interview. Actually, it would be
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: we should get someone on. Yeah, we should get someone on.
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: Let us know if you'd like to hear that, Yeah,
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: would be cool. We had quite a few comments asking
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: if Kayla Jay could come on. I did see that,
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: Like from what I've heard, she's quite hard to book
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: in and yeah, very very in demand and a busy mama.
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: So yeah, if we can't get her on, I wonder
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: if if you guys have any suggestions or if you're
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: listening and you are an escort or a sex worker,
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: we would love to hear from you.
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, let us know.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: That's something we could bring in. You guys could also
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: come onward and send us the questions you want us
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: to ask the sex verde. That would be cool, very
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: involved in the interview. Yeah, because once again we're curious humans. Yeah,
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: it's a different line of work not a lot of
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: people know much about, but it's interesting, absolutely interesting.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: But yeah, let us know, Like if you're in our
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: Facebook forum or anything like that, let us know what
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: your perspective was on this, and yeah, if you were
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: like for or against her coming on, and how you
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: feel about our decision of like not having hers.
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: I know a lot of people still wanted us to
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: have her on. Yeah, I've got a few DMSA there
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: were more, and the dms not the comment. Yeah.
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: Even my dad actually his opinion was to have her on,
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: but to be really neutral about it. Like he's like you, yeah,
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: and if you're going to have somebody who's that controversial on,
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: you can't be going on and interviewing as a scorned
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: woman who's sitting here going, oh my god, what you're
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: doing is wrong and bad. He's like, You're going to
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: have to be really neutral about it, Like you have
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: to put your beliefs aside and interview her as somebody
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: who's totally neutral, just there to do a job. Yeah,
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: and to you know, extract from her what it is
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: that you're wanting to share with the audience.
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah. At the end of the day, she's a marketing woman.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: She knows what she's doing so and she is so
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: well media changed. She has done these interviews over and
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: over and over again, and she has her exact response
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: for everything everyone's going to ask, and I think everyone
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: wants to break her down and see the real Yes,
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: the real her, and she knows exactly what to say
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: to get those moments, to get the views, to get
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: more ment on her page. Yeah, that's exactly what she's doing.
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, Like we're not the first people who'd be like, oh,
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: we're gonna get the most vulnerable side to her and
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: you take her mask off. Every interviewer ever says that,
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: you know, they see the real, raw version of her,
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: and she's just like she's playing a role. She's got
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: it all down, pat Yeah, No, like she's wearing a mask.
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: She's done it for so long, it's like become who
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: she is. So she's very good at her yes, one
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: hundred percent. Yeah, So we decided not to I know
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: everyone wanted an update on that, so here it is.
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: But if you have someone you want us to bring on, yeah,
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: and you're curious and you're open minded, you're not going
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: to be a judging then let us know. Yeah, thanks
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: for joining us.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: We'll see you on Monday.
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: Bye.